>"All of this grows out of our larger philosophy that the comic industry is moving into a seasonal model, that isn't too unlike what you see with your favorite binge-worthy TV shows," Alonso told CBR in June 2015 when discussing "All-New, All-Different Marvel." "Every year or so, you offer a new story or direction that provides an accessible entry point to new readers that builds on the experience you've been providing current readers. Sometimes that change is subtle; sometimes that change is seismic -- depends on the character or where the story is going. Each year or so of publishing provides a wild ride that offers some sense of completion, but, of course, doesn't finish the story. That's where the next 'season' picks up."
Can't they just admit "If we restart again we get the massive number one boost."?
Is this "seasonal" thing REALLY what we're going for? Most of the All New books didn't have actual endings either.
>>83265665
Wouldn't releasing one or two OGNs for a series per year resemble a "seasonal" model more so than relaunching every book every year?
but I guess they wouldn't get to put out 4.99 #1s if they did that!
>>83265665
>Every year or so, you offer a new story or direction that provides an accessible entry point to new readers that builds on the experience you've been providing current readers.
>New readers
>>83265665
>All of this grows out of our larger philosophy that the comic industry is moving into a seasonal model, that isn't too unlike what you see with your favorite binge-worthy TV shows,
This would be GOAT if they just dropped floppies and-yeah what this guy said >>83265782, beat me to it while I was writing.
>>83265665
>favorite binge-worthy TV shows
why would they use this buzz-phrase when it literally makes no sense in comics?
Monthly comics are the LEAST bingeable things in existence.
>>83265665
>that isn't too unlike what you see with your favorite binge-worthy TV shows
Reading one issue a month isn't "binging", Axel. The seasonal TV binge model is the opposite of what you're talking about
Ok buy why are they using the same name again. Have they seriously forgotten that they already did Marvel Now? I'm concerned
>>83265866
And wasn't most of Marvel Now considered a sales disappointment? Why reuse the damn name? Especially so soon?
This is only going to make it more confusing.
>>83265665
You know comics don't get any easier to get into when you have like 15 #1s for the Captain America title. That's not accessible, that's confusing as fuck. ESPECIALLY when they all spin off an event.
Also this >>83265866
Reusing the same name for your relaunch is even more confusing.
NO MORE #1S.
>>83265866
>>83266027
Are you seriously questioning Marvel's PR and publicity department? They've been able to turn turds into gold, what do we know?
Why do they do this? How many #1 issues does one series need? They've already got a successful film franchise and are under the fucking Disney umbrella. How much of a boost could it possibly give them?
>>83266064
Yeah but they've also been able to turn turds into turds of the same value.
>>83266088
Invincible Iron Man #1 sold 279k thanks to 20+ variants.
It is now 40k-50k at #8.
>>83266210
Jesus this industry is terrible.
when everything is a #1 nothing will be
they're shooting themselves in the foot
>>83266125
Hey, they don't lose money.
>>83266280
Can't see the harm in that. They shot the entire industry in the head the day they said "We're gonna distribute our own comics!"
>>83265665
They're going to kill #1's being big sales just like they killed collecting comics and variant covers.
http://www.comicsbeat.com/marvel-comics-month-to-month-sales-march-2016-spiders-dont-live-in-a-cesspool-but-in-dead-pools/
Boy I can't wait for some of the relaunched books to sell even worse than they do now, just like what happened with ANAD
>>83265665
Better fucking idea because it works in Japan.
Not being a weeb, but its a genuinely good idea.
JUST DO WHAT THE FUCK SHONEN JUMP DOES.
Nobody wants to shill 3 or 4 dollars out for 20 page floppies anymore. The magazine style of compiling around 10 or so of them gives a massive incentive boost into buying it. You get more bang for your buck.
You could even compile multiple books together based on franchise.
Your "The Avengers" mag, your "Spider-Man" mag, your "X-Men" mag, your "Marvel Cosmic" mag, your a "What If?" mag, maybe 3 others.
I would buy the shit out of them. And, you automatically, 100% guarantee a sale on the comic since they'll HAVE to buy it to get access to another comic they're interested in.
Just compile the shit together god dammit. Its a win-win for LITERALLY EVERYONE.
This goes for Marvel AND DC.
>>83266545
DC actually does this in foreign countries now. They pick the best of the new52 and put them in an anthology book.
>>83266545
They should really bring back Marvel Premier, Strange Tales and shit like that. An anthology series with simple 12 page stories for a character that makes you want to read more about them.
So /co/, what's your Marvel Now-er predictions?
>Thor Odinson gets a book a la Steve & Sam and Miles & Peter
>Gamora, Blade, Kate Bishop, Jessica Jones books
>Spider-woman, Star-Lord, Drax, Hellcat, Moon girl, and Squirrel girl are relaunched
>something with the new Quasar, new solo or new team book or something
>Bendis finally gets the fuck off of GOTG pls
>Marvel relaunches Vision and it's a massive critical and financial failure
>Loki book relaunched because election season
>at least 5 variants for everything, more like 20 for bigger books
>Bendis is still writing like 10 books
>#1 issues sell buttloads and suffer higher drop offs than ANAD did
>>83266545
I like the idea of western comics picking up with the way Japan deals with their manga. The only problem is that the west have a different relationship with their comics than the asians do.
>>83266545
Japan isn't everywhere dude
Nobody in America would buy that
Do these number ones actually do much at this point?
>>83266918
see
>>83266464
Sales are typically doubled or more from the last issue of the last volume so yeah
Even if most of them do end up the exact same or lower than where they were before
>>83266918
For like a month
02/15 Spider-Gwen #1 - 278,575
03/15 Spider-Gwen #2 - 107,070 (-61.6%)
04/15 spider-Gwen #3 - 102,234 (- 4.5%)
05/15 Spider-Gwen #4 - 86,586 (-15.3%)
06/15 Spider-Gwen #5 - 67,697 (-21.8%)
07/15 ---
08/15 ---
09/15 ---
10/15 Spider-Gwen #1 - 197,103
11/15 Spider-Gwen #2 - 62,209 (-68.4%)
12/15 Spider-Gwen #3 - 54,844 (-11.8%)
01/16 Spider-Gwen #4 - 48,664 (-11.3%)
02/16 Spider-Gwen #5 - 43,796 (-10.0%)
03/16 Spider-Gwen #6 - 46,060 (+ 5.2%)
Marvel spamming tons of variants is really helping their books too.
>>83266880
>105 - LEGENDS OF TOMORROW ($7.99)
>03/2016: Legends of Tomorrow #1 -- 18,753
This is true. Maybe they would if that's ALL that is available?
>>83265665
>All of this grows out of our larger philosophy that the comic industry is moving into a seasonal model, that isn't too unlike what you see with your favorite binge-worthy TV shows,
Stopped reading there.
>>83265866
That was Marvel Then. This is Marvel Now.
>>83266880
Why wouldnt they?
Thats a rather ignorant viewpoint. Your assumptions are based on the status quo, for innovation you need to look outside the box and into new methods of doing what you already do, in this case foreign, think why its successful, and replicate it.
It provides more incentive, more action per dollar, its simple business, if the consumer feels as if they're going to get more for their money, they'll be more likely to buy it. Announcing these books at around 7.99, 220 pages (10 issues), and advertising the hell out of it on social media, on the Marvel shows, and with the movie actors could lead to a boom in the industry and revitalize it.
Digitally, you could sell the same amount, the same 10 issues in a digital "booster pack", not unlike a card game or a steam anthology pack, where you get all 10 for the same price as physical or a little less, with each available after. Have an option to buy each individually for prices that, if all bought individually, add up to more than the pack would cause, this gives an incentive to buy the pack. It means more people see your product, more people buy your product, and more people read your product, as everyone who buys the pack, or the magazine, gets all issues, and is likely then to read it all, and will get more, perhaps tell a friend.
Learn to business, friendo.
The next step would be to remove the shitty writers and artists, undo the idiotic "Anger=Sales" tactic thats clearly failing, and instill a new, better, respectable editor in chief who can handle responsibility.
Its not fucking hard.
>>83266831
> Bendis gets off GOTG
You know this means he'll just find a new series to start bloodsucking, right?
>>83267167
Yes but hopefully it'll be one that I don't care about like Jessica Jones or Inhumans.
>>83267050
No because the reason it works in Japan, just to put it simply, is in part because of the creator-owned model they have. The entire industry just runs different from ours.
It also works when DC does it in other nations because the material is from their backlog.
I will say that a cheapo reprint magazine would probably be a good way to draw some new fans in though.
>>83266805
No one buys anthos.
No one also writes a competent and complete 12-page story, but that's another deal.
>>83267167
Yes, it will be Jessica Jones. Isn't it great? Who gives a fuck about Jessica Jones.
We're finally getting rid of the cancer. I'm already buying the champagne. And eager for the announcement. Hopefully they'll get Ewing for the main book and Duggan for Star-Lord.
>>83267290
>No because the reason it works in Japan, just to put it simply, is in part because of the creator-owned model they have.
Literally irrelevant in every way.
>>83266831
>Thor Odinson gets a book a la Steve & Sam and Miles & Peter
How much you wanna bet he becomes evil for controversy and so Jane can stay as the "good" Thor.
>>83267346
It's not because it's how the entire model stays affordable.
>7.99, 220 pages
A DC TPB is around 15 dollars for 150 or so pages for reprints. Marvel is 20 for one hundred or so. In what world is 220 for 7.99 ever going to happen?
>>83267138
Sounds like an awful lot of hypotheticals to me
>>83265782
>>83265814
Monthly ongoings keep the lights on though. And pumping out OGNs yearly sounds neat until you take into account how many books/trades are released by EACH competing publisher per month. Switching over would probably entail having to pump out several books each month just to maintain a presence. We'd just be getting shittier comics with more pages.
Does anybody even remember or care about the OGNs Marvel put out recently?
>>83266545
If people aren't going to pay 4 bucks for a comic, what the fuck makes you think they'll shell out 8 for an anthology?
I like the manga like magazine idea. It would have to be low quality paper and meant to be thrown out like the Japanese ones. I think that would be the hardest part for american comic readers in the transition.
>>83266210
That's higher than an iron man comic usually sells by issue 8
>>83267492
>Does anybody even remember or care about the OGNs Marvel put out recently?
Hey I remember them. They're clogging up my local BAM's clearance rack right now.
>>83266831
Wasp solo
And I'll still be salty if Janet isn't at least part of the supporting cast
>>83267476
>It's not because it's how the entire model stays affordable.
>>7.99, 220 pages
>A DC TPB is around 15 dollars for 150 or so pages for reprints. Marvel is 20 for one hundred or so. In what world is 220 for 7.99 ever going to happen?
A world where they understand that a lower price is an incentive for more people to buy the product thus getting even higher output.
In any event that was a hypothetical, perhaps 15 would work just as well.
>>83267492
>If people aren't going to pay 4 bucks for a comic, what the fuck makes you think they'll shell out 8 for an anthology?
4 for 20 pages vs. double the price for 10 times the page count.
40 for 220? Different story.
8 for 220? People buy that shit all the time its calledbooks
1 buck for 1 floppy.
The sooner you accept it, the sooner you don't die.
>>83267604
>It's called books
There ain't no pictures in those.
>>83267492
Floppies have more of a collector-market than Trades.
While hypothetically we can say "Okay well if you cut the floppy that market will have to buy trades to read so it all balances out." But that ignores the Variantfag that's buying one of each cover, and probably a second of the main cover so he has one to read since he doesn't want to ruin his other copies. If he's reading them at all. I know plenty of people who collect floppies as an investment and never read comics.
>>83267661
Okay.
Whats your point?
People buy 220 pages of nothing but text for 8 bucks all the time, why wouldnt they do the same but if there were pictures?
In fact why the fuck would you ever buy a regular book at that price if you could buy something for the same price but with cool ass pictures of spider-man.
I think the greatest advantage an antho would have would be that not every chapter would have to be 22 pages.
>>83267292
People buy Heavy Metal and 2000AD
>>83267604
>A world where they understand that a lower price is an incentive for more people to buy the product thus getting even higher output.
That lower price is unfeasible. DC/Marvel would not make a profit on it.
>>83267598
Shit I would actually like that. Depending on the creative team of course.
>>83267819
>That lower price is unfeasible. DC/Marvel would not make a profit on it.
Hypothetical price probably too low yeah, but adjusting it with the page count would be too expensive.
Im admittedly a little foggy on certain details in regards to printing and paychecks, but what do normal floppies cost to produce for Marvel and DC? Cant be much if they cost 4 bucks.
>>83267686
Actually Image has recently started pushing for variant trades.
>ahead of the game
Listen all fuckwits, about once a month there's a thread on /co/ where some wannabe casual is asking how-oh-how they can ever start reading up on the characters they want to read about when (omygawd) the series is on issue #562 and right in the middle of a convoluted storyarc...? With lots of references and plot-thread continuations too!
What do I say every time: Pick up a relaunch issue #1. Or at least look for a new storyline starting-point.
That's about the only way the industry can pick up new readers when they've had as much history as they've had.
Can you really blame them for making it more easy on the newbs? That's where their next paycheck is going to come from.
>>83267924
jesus christ, how horrifying
>>83267924
Trades with different covers?
>>83268040
>>83268064
I assume the trades, like shonen jumps mangas, have covers on the inside, and the variant trade has those covers exchanged with the variants.
>>83267924
I'll care when they start putting out alternate endings.
>>83268013
I tell them to pick up an indie book tbqphwymf
I think that what Marvel is trying to do is "technically" noble (that is, trying to get actual brand-new readers to read their comics), but it's clear that they haven't dived into what the real problems are and, rather, have just offered a surface solution.
"More #1s" makes sense in that regard. But it doesn't help new readers when:
1) They don't clean the slate as much as you'd expect, and instead are more-or-less just renumberings for things in the middle of runs.
2) They're the offshoots of big events. These events will, also, have lead-ins, be 5-12 issues long themselves, and have all sorts of weird effects that often make things not worth the effort.
3) They stick to the monthly, decompressed format. (this point is for *brand-new* readers, from movies and others) It's kind of difficult to con someone out of 4-5 bucks for a flimsy story, and then expect them to keep buying month after month. A brand-new reader has nothing to prove to anybody: they'll just give up and cut their losses.
I think new #1s technically work, and certainly they HAVE worked in the past (which is why Marvel and other companies relaunch so often. But I think Marvel is being too careless with how they're doing it, and the only effect that they're seeing is the boost from incentivized variants.
Not to bring company wars into things, but I think Rebirth is one way of trying to fix some of the problems. While #1s will still (kind of) be in the middle of things, there's a much smaller reading list before you head into the series. Read the big/cheap one-shot (which is still just 3 bucks online), then read your series. And for all the big-names, they're twice a month, 3 bucks a pop for 6 dollars total at 40 pages. Not ideal, but it's better than 4 dollars for 20 pages in an entire month.
The #1 gimmick has to have diminishing returns at some point, right? People can't just keep falling for this over and over again, right?
Oh, who am I kidding. Capefags are the dumbest motherfuckers on the planet.
>>83268115
I tell them to grab a trade.
They have these nice numbers on the side and they're really easy to get into. I also tell them to just ignore floppies because they're a waste of time and space for new readers.
>>83267718
>People buy 220 pages of nothing but text for 8 bucks all the time, why wouldnt they do the same but if there were pictures?
Because that means they need to do more work to have words and pictures and so the price would be higher.
>>83268242
If the recent post-SW launch is any indication, it's not working as well as they hoped.
>>83268064
Yeah. In that big conference where Stephenson bashed big 2 for putting out too many books and too many variants, he said something about trades with variant covers.
>>83268351
Im talking about consumers. Aslo bullshit "more work"
It'd just be a compilation of existing comics instead of all of them being seperated.
>>83267050
Wouldn't half the point of such a model be to get out from under Diamond's cancerous thumb and sell in supermarkets and book stores?
>>83268242
We've already seen the fallout of Marvel's incessant relaunches. The #1s sell about as well as usual, but the dropoff rate is increasing at an alarming rate - usually to the point that by issue #4-6 the book will be at or below the regular amount of monthly sales pre-renumbering.
>>83268242
Most #1s are selling less than the pvreious #1s
Sales for a lot of books are dropping 50%+ by issue 2 or 3, which used to happen more by issues 5 or 6
Sales for a lot of books are ending up lower than where they were before by issues 3-6.
>>83268619
Well, it's a start.
>>83268619
>Sales for a lot of books are dropping 50%+ by issue 2
50%? Try 75%
Just let the sales stay stable Marvel. Relaunch every five or so years.
>>83268460
They do sell in bookstores.
The problem with your idea is if such a model failed the comic book stores would be dead and they'd have no where to truly go. Bookstores carry their stuff but they're not going to be enough.
>>83267718
Because it costs more to produce? That's why the colour reprints (DC Archive, and Marvel Masterworks) cost more than their black and white counterparts (Showcase Presents,Marvel Essential).
>>83268671
The sales dropping 50% by issue 2 or 3 is mostly because of variants since only #1s get 5-20+ variants like marvel's been doing lately
>>83268755
>Because it costs more to produce? That's why the colour reprints (DC Archive, and Marvel Masterworks) cost more than their black and white counterparts (Showcase Presents,Marvel Essential).
We're not talking about the price difference between using colors in a print or not, but taking the existing printing process and just slapping two covers on 10 of those issues you just printed. How would it cost more than what they're doing currently?
>>83267718
See if your tiny lizard brain can comprehend this:
When you publish a book, you pay the writer.
When you publish a comic, you pay they writer AND the artist who does the line work AND a second artist who colors the pictures in.
>>83268908
No shit.
Yet despite this extra work, single issues cost 3.99 per month. Is asking you to think a little that hard?
>>83267648
Yep, go back to the old style and only go full glossy on books with art that warrants it. Squirrel Girl doesn't need it.
>>83268985
You seriously can't think $4 is still cheap for a single issue right?
When it comes to book printing, you have to consider factors like the kind of paper used for the cover and the inside pages. The size of the book, the page count, and the binding method (sewn, stapled, or glued). Take into account that offset printers have to print a minimum of a thousand or so copies, and that's a lot of money in the hole. We're taking at least a few grand.
Then there's distribution, publicity/advertising, advances, royalties... There's a lot of time, money, and people involved in making sure a book finds its way to a bookstore.
>>83267557
I've spotted the Season Ones on the clearence shelf elsewhere. $9.99 each, still shrinkwrapped.
>>83268460
Space on supermarket/bookstore newsstands is expensive in its own way though. There's a reason Marvel monthlies are completely absent from the stands at Barnes and Noble.
Also, Diamond has a bookstore distribution division.
>>83266545
>muh black and white
Nobody reads that shit because visually you lose grips on it past the first few panels.
Go read One Piece and immediately you get fucking lost as to where characters are and what they're doing because there's nothing to catch the eye and differentiate who and what from wherever.
Seriously how do you even identify a setting in a manga? Half the time there's no background or the FWOOOSH thing
>>83265810
I don't understand anon? You don't want new readers?
>>83270045
What the fuck does any of that have to do with what he said? He was referring to how its compiled you dumb faggot.
>>83269917
When was that?
>>83270045
Oda is a terrific artist but he does get very cluttered with his composition. With most Manga it's pretty easy to keep track of the characters.
>Marvel trying to kill the industry again
Bastards
>>83265665
>the comic industry is moving into a seasonal model
This is literally because Marvel keeps relaunching every year. Holy shit just fuck off. Didn't the recent relaunch end up being detrimental to sales?
>>83267138
isn't that what literally a TPB/Omnibus is? you just doubled up the Issues in it.
>>83265665
>accessible entry point to new readers
>5 Ant-Man #1s in 2015 alone
>>83267598
Janet is fucking shite, mate.
>>83265665
I think the best move is to just not read marvel.
>>83270045
There's the digitally colored version.
>>83267138
>"Anger=Sales" tactic thats clearly failing
But they're not.
>>83270857
It's pretty great that /co/ keeps trying to believe that tho
>>83270857
Fuck yes it is.
Compare their sales now to just a few years ago. Hell, they used to pull 6 figure sales not too far back, now they struggle to hit 20k max. Its pathetic.
>>83270857
It does and doesn't.
They get a huge spike of sales at the start, and then the sales start dropping at somewhat regular rates.
However, those sales keep dropping the further in time the line goes, unlike more stable titles that mantain numbers all thorough.
That's the real reason they relaunch every couple of months.
The initial burst of sales doesn't stick and they bleed readers as they go further down the path.
>>83268203
>what Marvel is trying to do is "technically" noble (that is, trying to get actual brand-new readers to read their comics),
That's not what Marvel is trying to do. They're relaunching because they saw the success the New 52 had for DC. Then they decided to do it every year and constantly get that sales bump with the new #1s.
>>83270857
We'll by the end of the month or the next, how many sales did Hydra Cap get.
I'm willing to bet Brevoort is right now regretting he ever said that.
>mfw Marvel fans will literally never have a series that get's more than 12 issues
>SHOCKING twist after shocking twist
>crossover after corssover
>all the sjw pandering
>all that making the comics more like the movies
meanwhile
>rebirth bringing back pre-52 continuity
>shazam, losh, jsa an atom soon
>tec and action soon to reach issue #1000
It's not too late Marvel fans, Rebirth is a great jumping on point.
>>83271289
if I want bronze age DC i'll just read Bronze age DC
>>83271149
>Heavily promoted Marvel #1
>return of popular character who just got a movie
>big twist that made headlines
It's gonna sell like crazy, man. Do you have no sense of pattern recognition?
It'll sink like a stone over the first few issues, then sales will settle around "pretty good" until they relaunch again next year.
Didn't they already do Marvel Now? They do one of these things every year so i wouldn't be surprised if they were running out of names.
>>83271289
>rebirth bringing back pre-52 continuity
no thanks
>>83271357
while also keeping new52 continuity as well.praise based johns
>>83271352
It was Now, then All-New Now, then All-New All-Different Now.
>>83271386
How is that not more confusing to readers than
issue #42 or some shit like that?
>>83271477
New series! Jumping-on point! Buy the collectible variant covers and put your kids though college when they shoot up in value!
I really don't get how readers stick with these books and characters.
Is it just momentum? God knows I've continued picking up a few books months after I lost interest, but for so many people to do it for so long?
>>83271348
When will it end /co/
>>83268419
I believe he means because you have to be not just a writer, but also a penciller, an inker, and a colorist, at least.
>>83271348
The SJW's have started a hate campaign against it, the cucks (who are the only ones who would buy Marvel's shit anymore) usually do what SJW's are telling them to do.
If SJW's say don't buy it, cucks might as well not buy it.
We'll see...
>>83271672
>She-Shang-Chi
That is lame, and DEFINITELY not something I would buy, read, and potentially masturbate to.
>>83271348
>>83271846
Wrong, this was not about the sales, but about taking away any publicity from Rebirth. In the end the sales don't matter, because people talked disproportionately more about HAIL HYDRA than Rebirth.
>>83271929
>In the end the sales don't matter
What?
Publicity is a means to get more sales.
Much good that will do them if the sales drop.
>>83271846
It's almost cute that you think any of that matters at all.
What's your basis for thinking that would effect sales?
Even if it did (it won't) the orders for the issue were put in two months ago and finalized three weeks ago. The numbers we'll see are what shops ordered from Diamond.
>>83271929
Marvel does these gimmicks pretty much constantly.
One was bound to coincide with a big DC thing eventually.
>>83272066
>coincide
>>83265665
Maybe just maybe Marvel can first produce 30 decent pages for one comic book before they try to tackle and arbitrary seasons worth of books that go no where.
I already stopped reading Marvel because of their reboot bullshit. It's annoying, the storylines mostly go nowhere, and they fuck up characters for the sake of fucking up characters. They need to get their shit together, I love Marvel characters but not the way they're going.
>>83271929
Nigga Rebirth was nothing but a blue curtain image and a bunch of rumors when Captain America was solicited, and they've built this hydra stuff in Standoff, way before Rebirth was even announced.
This hydra stuff was meant to coincide with the movie so people looking on Twitter and tumblr about the movie would see comic people freaking out about OMG STEVE IS A NAZI NOW
They probably did leak it the day before it came out to take attention that Rebirth got a couple days prior though
>>83271846
Are you even capable of understanding any world possibly existing that doesn't revolve around your hate-themed /pol/ paranoia?
This is about commerce and artistic expression, those things do exist independently of your personal need to hate someone.
Stop fucking up threads with your butthurt about how bad your delusions have gotten.
Either medicate or stop posting.
As much as I like the MCU, it's the reason Marvel comics are going to complete shit.
>>83272066
>What's your basis for thinking that would effect sales?
It's unprecendented.
Marvel got away with the stupidest shit before, such as Whor and every other PC bullshit title, they've been publishing the last few years but they were all a-okay, not because they were well written (they were not) but because they fit with SJW propaganda. To me, it looks like people buy comics based on that plus popularity.
Well, I don't have to explain why popularity is a factor but about propaganda, well, cucks will buy what the internet tells them to buy, right? And all these hype sites are dominated by SJW's.
Now that we got that SJW propaganda machine working against this title, who knows? I'm not saying for sure, but we might as well see Hydra Cap hitting rock bottom.
>>83270820
>>83271929
>people talked disproportionately more about HAIL HYDRA than Rebirth.
Only the OUTRAGE twitter/facebook/tumblr normies. Among people that actually read/buy comics Rebirth was talked about way more.
>>83265665
i really don't get the appeal of the seasonal model.
it works with shows because they come out with episodes every week, take a break for several months, and then return.
with comics we get a 20-page comic per month, unless it's double shipping, and it normally takes at minimum 4-5 issues for one story to resolve.
look at this shit with Cap Hydra that Marvel is experiencing. would it still get reactions like this if it were a show? absolutely. but it isn't. we aren't gonna be waiting a week to see how this resolves, we're gonna be waiting a month. and even next month we won't get all the answers we want, effectively making this cliffhanger last a good quarter of the year.
a cliffhanger like this would be resolved within a few episodes on a show, effectively making it only a month wait with installments every week. and that is the barrier the seasonal model of comics can't breach.
not to mention it's just confusing as fuck when you release a new #1 every year, or even have two #1's in the same year like a number of books did (Spider-Gwen, Howard the Duck, Silk, etc.)
>>83270045
This is the plebbiest thing i've ever read on this board.
Do you read any comic other than capeshit?
>>83272380
>Only the OUTRAGE twitter/facebook/tumblr normies. Among people that actually read/buy comics Rebirth was talked about way more.
Yes, I never said this wasn't the case.
>>83272336
>They don't like me showing up to scream racist crap! That day-care center is full of SJWs!!!
>>83272336
Setting your paranoia aside, what about my point that it is literally impossible for this to effect first-issue sales?
And seriously, it would be very good for you to step away from the internet for a while. You're turning into that guy from the VN about crippled girls.
>>83272387
The comparison doesn't even work, since most shows aren't anthologies and continue from season to season.
Comic relaunches usually don't.
>>83272387
this
A seasonal model isn't something I'd consider two 6 issue arcs. That's barely worth it.
Letting writers do full 3-4+ trade runs and letting them finish before changing writers and relaunching is something I'd consider more "seasonal".
>tfw it's going to take another decade before people stop buying number ones and the bubble bursts like it should have again.
>>83272387
Really? You don't get why it's much better to have the entire story (or a substantial amount) in your hands before reading? It's called trades.
People already trade wait. It's great.
>>83272285
Dude, I don't give a fuck.
I couldn't give a fuck if Cap turned out gay either, like all those SJW's wanted him to be.
My own philosophy is: if I don't like it, I don't buy it.
It's not my thing, it's not my work. It's somebody else's who's trying to sell it to me. They have the problem, not I.
And neither do I give a fuck about if SJW's get it their way or not. If some product of entertainment comes up which is good enough for me, besides all the SJW propaganda that comes with it, I'm gonna admit and I'm gonna buy it too, watch/read/play it whatever.
Like for example, the Jessica Jones Netflix show and Mad Max Fury Road, which were feminist as fuck but I loved the shit out of them.
I want the good work, see? And I'm not gullible enough to fall for anyone's propaganda, SJW or not.
But I'm calling them as I see them. And what I see is a huge hype machine taken over and maintained by SJW's who direct cucks to buy what they want them to, wether that's good or not.
>>83272555
I have to wonder what "cuck" means it the context of people who purchase comics.
And do you realize that most books that directly pander to the SJW crowd (Squirrel Girl, Hellcat, Angela) sell like baked ass?
>>83272727
Cuck, as in someone who doesn't do his own thinking so much, as much as he lets others tell him "that is good, you should buy it", and he does.
>And do you realize that most books that directly pander to the SJW crowd (Squirrel Girl, Hellcat, Angela) sell like baked ass?
Yeah, some are completely hopeless and no amount of hyping can save them. There is no one hyping them up anymore, anyway. Everybody knows that this boat has sunk.
>yfw they zig at DC and go back to legacy numbering
What's gonna renumber anyway? Maybe Avengers, Iron Man, and Captain Marvel? Maybe this is just a new wave of books
>>83272846
>Cuck, as in someone who doesn't do his own thinking so much, as much as he lets others tell him "that is good, you should buy it", and he does.
Huh, Maddox WAS right.
>>83272849
If DC wasn't doing that with Action and Detective, it might be something.
>>83272846
>Cuck, as in someone who doesn't do his own thinking so much, as much as he lets others tell him "that is good, you should buy it", and he does.
Do you mean "sheep"?
Because it sounds like the word you want is "sheep."
>Yeah, some are completely hopeless and no amount of hyping can save them. There is no one hyping them up anymore, anyway. Everybody knows that this boat has sunk.
Yet you act like it's some massive problem, so which is it?
Who fucking cares, everyone at Marvel lies as they breathe. I'm honestly amazed it took them five years to come up with this bullshit excuse.
>>83272910
Yeah, well, I just thought of cuck first.
>Yet you act like it's some massive problem, so which is it?
Do I sound angry? Because I'm not.
What massive problem anyway? A massive first world problem, maybe. For which, I can not really be bothered. Talk to me about taxes and opportunities and then I might get angry.
Before anyone starts calling me a poltard, let me run back to my original argument which was that anger they generated might not them sales this time, with Hydra Cap #1 because they've angered the wrong people, the hype generators.
In the end it is, we're gonna test the limits of "bad publicity is good publicity" before it starts to backfire.
>>83270109
Well, what if these New Readers don't like what I like? What if the books that pander to them instead of me start selling more? Can't you see the problem here?
>>83273023
>Durp, they bad! They all bad! You don't read! If you read you is sucu-sucumbing tu-tu peer pressure! So you no read it! I told you! You do what I say!
>>83273125
>the hype generators
You know what generates hype?
Having Captain-Fucking America say "Hail Hydra" after killing a good guy at the end of a first issue. Thousands of people are talking about it.
Whether they think it's awful or not, they absolutely want to know what happens next.
Again, the issue was ordered by shops weeks ago. A few hundred thousand copies, no doubt.
And when the next issue comes out it'll have the same massive drop there always is between #1 and #2, but it'll still be selling really well because people want to see what happens.
Big dumb plot twists that piss people off at first didn't magically stop printing money just because some children on the internet got riled up.
>>83265665
Honestly doing this type of shit confuses the casuals who are trying to keep up with the comics the most.
>>83266831
>>Bendis finally gets the fuck off of GotG pls
Lol not gonna happen, especially with GotG vol. 2 on the horizon
Maybe when the MCU stops doing GotG movies then he'll jump to whatever hot property Marvel wants to shill so I guess in like 6 years or so
>>83273278
>Having Captain-Fucking America say "Hail Hydra" after killing a good guy at the end of a first issue.
No, see, that's the product itself. The hype is generated for this, not by this.
It's the multitude of sites that will take this page and showcase it for the people who visit them, to see. They generate the hype. They and those who comment on their articles. And they're gonna form an opinion, for the cucks or the sheep, call them what you want, to assume as their own.
And so far, the opinion that has been formulated, is a negative one. And perhaps, too negative.
So we shall see in the end, if all that bad publicity will backfire this time.
Now, I'm not being absolute, I'm not saying this is how it's going to happen. Like I said in my first post too: we'll see...
My bet is, it's gonna hurt their sales though, in the end.
>>83271708
>>83271693
>>83271672
>It's ok guys, we're aware we're terrible but all's fine since you idiots will buy it anyway
>>83272516
but it isn't, because of it. Writers have decided to write for trade instead. Stretching out their stories to 6 issues to 12 issues when it could just be resolved in half of that.
>>83273394
Do you somehow not remember how people fucking HATED Superior Spider-Man when it started?
It still sold incredibly well.
Like it or not, anger still sells books.
Plus it's a Captain America #1.
And it's already been sold.
But it'll have its expected drop and you're tell yourself that's the reason.
Will Cap #1 outsell Rebirth?
>>83265665
My only hope for this is that they pull Bendis off of Iron Man and let him keep his shit on Miles instead of characters I want to read
>>83273587
That's kind of a given, Rebirth was barely a blip outside the comic world.
Hydra Cap however got so loud even casuals heard about it.
>>83273587
Tough call.
Rebirth is only $2.99 while triple the size of a normal issue, plus it leads into DC big new push.
But Cap #1 is published by Marvel.
>>83273622
AGAIN, orders for these issues were put in weeks ago.
A month's orders are put in two months before coming out, then each week's releases are adjustable up to three weeks out.
>>83273537
Superior Spider-Man was published at a time when my interest in Marvel comics had dropped to zero.
I wasn't following the news then, and don't know how well or not did it do. I don't even know what it's all about.
If I get it right, it's about Spider-Man turning bad, right? Well, that's nothing compared to Hydra Cap because of the SJW factor.
In modern american society, their influence is great. It's another thing when a comic book nerd is saying "You can't make Spider-Man bad!" and another thing a SJW saying "Nazi Cap is an insult to his jewish creators", see? It's not about the hero turning bad but about real life taboos getting at play here.
Don't call me a poltard again, I couldn't care less, I'm just calling them as I see them.
Unless somehow Superior Spider-Man pissed SJW's off, like Hydra Cap did, then I don't see any relation.
>But it'll have its expected drop and you're tell yourself that's the reason.
I won't though. The bet is, the first issue's sales to be low.
>>83271149
You've just shown how you don't know crap about the industry.
>>83273701
>it's about Spider-Man turning bad, right
Wrong, it's about Doc Ock taking over Peter Parker's body only to view his life and vow to be a better Spider-Man than he ever was and failing spectacularly
>>83273622
Hasn't Rebirth sold out though? Haven't heard the same about Cap.
>>83270045
>Your example is One Piece
Lmao
>>83273760
But see, that's not offensive.
It can generate sales because I can see how fans would want to see what the fuck it's all about. Despite wether they were angered or not.
SJW argument "Nazi Cap is an insult to his jewish creators", could backfire for Marvel's anger-generates-sales policy because it's creating a sentiment of boycotting an antisemetic product.
It's not about comic book fans, this time.
>https://twitter.com/TheBigBang_/status/736529847380520960
>Hum... Pre-orders for CIVIL WAR II are... not great so far. BATMAN REBIRTH #1 at nearly 3 times the pre-order numbers.
What does this mean?
>>83273703
In every thread these days some casual is posting crap and fucking conversations up, is there some Hate Monger out there luring children from /b/ into their van and then driving them over here to post this stupidity?
>>83273701
>Superior Spider-Man was published at a time when my interest in Marvel comics had dropped to zero.
They were 40% of the market.
>I wasn't following the news then, and don't know how well or not did it do. I don't even know what it's all about.
It sold great. Never really stopped selling great.
>If I get it right, it's about Spider-Man turning bad, right? Well, that's nothing compared to Hydra Cap because of the SJW factor.
Spider-Man died while one of his greatest enemies took over his body and identity. It was a year and a half of Spider-Man being an edgy asshole.
It drove people nuts from the get-go.
>Don't call me a poltard again
Did not do that even once. I've called you stupid and paranoid, because you clearly are.
You've got this idea that SJW's are some massive force that can make or break any creative endeavor, when that's really not the case.
Comics they love can sell terribly. Comics they hate can sell great. The hundreds of books they never discuss vary wildly. Because they don't matter, beyond generating clickbait articles.
>The bet is, the first issue's sales to be low.
But that's retarded, for reasons I keep saying.
It is literally impossible for this reaction to effect Cap #1 sales, because the copies have already been sold.
>>83273795
But how many copies did retailers order?
If they ordered 100k fewer copies than Cap, then selling out doesn't mean so much.
We won't know until the numbers come out.
>>83273856
People at their shop are more interested in a Batman relaunch than a less-interesting-by-design copy of a past event book.
As they really should be.
Go Tom King (not that his name contributes to those numbers the way it should).
>>83273860
That response >>83273843 is for you then.
The essential difference between Doc Ock becoming Spider-Man and Cap retconned to have always been a Hydra Agent.
And how that anger generated by those decisions, could work for the former but would backfire for the latter.
>You've got this idea that SJW's are some massive force that can make or break any creative endeavor, when that's really not the case.
I still think it's true. I see a lot of people. The ultimate test for this, will be the Ghostbusters remake. If it fails after all, then I will admit that SJW's don't hold as much sway over the internet community.
#FireRemender was proof to me they aren't all powerful
>>83274003
>The essential difference between Doc Ock becoming Spider-Man and Cap retconned to have always been a Hydra Agent.
People who actually read comics understand how basic storytelling works and assume there's more to it than that, so they want to know more.
>I still think it's true.
Based on what? When has that happened?
>If it fails after all, then I will admit that SJW's don't hold as much sway over the internet community.
Forget SJWs, you over estimate the value of the internet community.
The very people who loathe billion-dollar movies and record-breaking video games.
>>83267292
>No one also writes a competent and complete 12-page story, but that's another deal.
hahahaha ok anon
They should try a line of comics with the Earth One kind of model. Sell it in bookshops, bring a volume out every year, have a few series on the go and spread out the releases so theres always something thats recently been released in the line.
People fucking love Earth One because its so easy to read, imagine how great it could be with some actually good writers.
>>83274160
>so they want to know mo
no we dont. dont drag good old folks from co into your madness
>>83274807
they that like 3 years ago it's called Season One.
>>83273454
that wasn't made by Marvel you dumb cunt.
>>83265665
I'm a stingy bastard so have taken these constant reboots as an opportunity to stop buying certain runs.
Here's hoping Dr Strange gets #1'd, I'm only buying it for the art at this point.
>>83266545
they used to do this in the west, in Europe atleast.
it was a big part of my childhood and why i got to read a lot of new teen titans, Lobo and 2000 ad stuff, notebly Zenith
>>83275106
Not him, but who made it? It looks really professional.
>>83265665
>>83271708
>X-Men move to Tampa.
I'd be okay with that. I mean, can you name any superheroes in fucking Tampa?
>>83275106
Don't be a fucking idiot it's from Marvel Now What #1 and Shame Itself
>>83266831
>>Thor Odinson gets a book a la Steve & Sam and Miles & Peter
I'm all for that
>>Gamora, Blade, Kate Bishop, Jessica Jones books
I only want a Blade book
>>Spider-woman, Star-Lord, Drax, Hellcat, Moon girl, and Squirrel girl are relaunched
no. Cancel l Drax too
>>something with the new Quasar, new solo or new team book or something
revive Martyr pls
>>Bendis finally gets the fuck off of GOTG pls
I don't even hate him t b h
>>Marvel relaunches Vision and it's a massive critical and financial failure
I'll miss King on Vision
>>Loki book relaunched because election season
fuck that
>>at least 5 variants for everything, more like 20 for bigger books
I have no problem with that t b h
>>Bendis is still writing like 10 books
I don't hate him
>>#1 issues sell buttloads and suffer higher drop offs than ANAD did
this is normal
>>83273587
Whichever wins determines if comics are dead or not.
However, I do know that Rebirth is sold out all over my town.
#MakeMarvelGreatAgain
>>83276753
I'm from SEA and apparently it also fucking sold out here. There are people in my trading group looking for people for swaps for DC Rebirth and Justice Leauge #50
>>83266210
>It is now 40k-50k at #8.
That is pretty great for a character who isn't Batman or Spider-man.
>>83275139
Wha....just stop buying the things you don't want to buy. You don't need an excuse or justification.
>>83270045
Maybe if you're retarded
>>83266545
The idea doesn't work in the US. Shonen Jump failed here.
>>83276264
And hey, they'd totally fit in with all the other mutants in Florida!
>>83271672
>>83271693
I hope the new Marvel Now! has more Stiltman.
And this is why after giving marvel a go for 5 months I am dropping all of their titles from my list. I'm not collecting 12 issues to only go back to issue 1. They should just say that they're doing this for the massive #1 boost as their titles have like 50+% drops after issue 1 and then just continue to drop
>>83275919
>Hey you!
>Yeah you!
>Be outraged at our critics!
>Now write clickbait articles demanding diversity!
>>83276797
how?
>>83266545
10 books per magazine is too fucking much. It would look ridiculous and cheap.
In several European countries they do something similar with their Marvel imports, but it's 3 comics in one - more reasonable size, and it gets you to buy multiple titles.
A sneaky thing they do (that I honestly wouldn't like in the US but is probably a sales marvel) is that you don't really know what story you'll be getting next month. For example: say you're buying Essential X-Men or whatever it would be called. It collects stories that would normally be printed in Uncanny, All-New and Extraordinary. But that's no guarantee you'll get one of each - you might get 2-1-0, or even 0-3-0 if it's a really important/compact story. That way, if you're a fan of one title, you have to buy it every month because your title/characters might be there next month. And in the meantime, you're exposed to a bunch of other titles/characters, that you might end up liking anyway.
It's more sensible (even with the odd alternating thing) than the weeb option which is too much of a change, IMHO, and a halfway measure between floppies and just going full TPB.
So what will marvel do when their relaunch-crossovers-event-crossovers-event-relaunch strategy stops working?
>>83281475
Probably just go back to doing regular comics. The only reason they do this is because it gets more sales than just printing regular storyarcs. If it stopped working, they'd just go back to how it was.
>>83273900
I don't see Cap #1 doing more than like 150k and Rebirth should be about 200k. CW 2 #0 is probably Rebirth's actual competition this month.
>>83280762
How many different series run in 2000AD per issue?
marvel comics is garbage
marvel makes movies now, they should just focus on that
>>83281644
>>83273856
>https://twitter.com/TheBigBang_/status/736529847380520960
>Hum... Pre-orders for CIVIL WAR II are... not great so far. BATMAN REBIRTH #1 at nearly 3 times the pre-order numbers.
>>83281834
That's only one retailers. I think the actual #1 for CW2 will do 500k+ based on the variants.
>>83281743
I think the comics are hoping they can shit something out that'll be considered good enough for the movies.
Jeph Loeb was clearly trying to write a script when he made his dead son Nova, it just wasn't happening
I'm sure Bendis was one of the people who wanted Spider-Man to be black in CW
>>83274042
No shit, lmao, I love how 4chan thinks they rule the world.
>>83282148
/co/ didn't do that hashtag though
>>83282267
I know...
What's your point?
>>83282148
>posting in a comics thread when you don't know anything about them
why?
Spiderman COP vs Venom FUNNY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRnDnOgY0ZA
This is killing Marvel for me.
My favorite way of readin comics is reading full runs by a writer, not interrupted by events if possible.
With DC I feel like occasionally I can do this. From the NEW 52 on I enjoyed and bought Azzarellos Wonder Woman, Animal Man, Soule's Swamp Thing, Bunn's Sinestro, Secret Six, Seeley's Suicide Squad.
But I am having problems enjoying books from Marvel because of the constant events and relaunches, it also doesnt helpt that I am an X-Men fan.
I liked Gillen's uncanny X-Men a lot. I wish that status quo in Utopia had lasted 1 or 2 years more instead of having it end with the terrible Avengers vs X-Men event.
Now, we finally get an acceptable XMen book after the years of Bendis (Bunns Uncanny), and now the story will be derailed by the forced Apocalypse event to take advantage of the Fox movie in some way, and later this year Death of X, and Civil War electric boogaloo may affect the books in some way too. It is impossible for the writers to write their own story.
>>83265665
>All of this grows out of our larger philosophy that the comic industry is moving into a seasonal model, that isn't too unlike what you see with your favorite binge-worthy TV shows
Fuck off. Marvel has been using this line for like 10 fucking years now and much like movie synergy there's no truth to it and in fact given the failure of the post-Secret Wars relaunch, there's reason to believe that the "seasonal" model of annual relaunches and new #1's is actively hurting the product.
>>83265810
Constant relaunches bring in new readers though, just like the movies! If we keep telling ourselves that and block out any information to the contrary it'll be true!
>>83265665
It's already been a seasonal model, they're called story arcs.
>>83282377
seems like they dont understand that the spiderman nursery rhyme videos with 100 millions views are due to bots lol
>Marvel Now!
>all new marvel now
>all new marvel
>marvel now 2016
Jesus if they want to do yearly relaunches that's fine but they need some new branding or this shits going to get really confusing
Marvel should become Spiderman Comics and DC should become Batman Comics.
>>83282872
Marvel Nower
>>83266048
What's worse is that they carry over the bullshit to the trade paperbacks.
There's like four Ant-Man Volume 1s now, and you can only tell the difference between them by their subtitles.
>>83283725
That's a really poor decision. If they were really embracing a season format the volumes would still increase in number rather than doing that.
>>83283773
Yeah New 52 vol 1s were selling pretty good like 3-4 years into the reboot because that's all the first volumes there were and there weren't as many reprints of older stuff
Whereas marvel vol 1s sell maybe the first 3 months and taper off since there's gonna be a new vol 1 the next year, and fans don't know which one to start with.
>>83284039
Marvel is really bad when it comes to reprints and shit, it seems. Things go out of print quickly too.
>>83265846
>Monthly comics are the LEAST bingeable things in existence.
Says you.
>Civil War II
>Marvel Now II
>>83284072
At least they are publishing the Classic Thunderbolts trades again. It was years between V3 and V4.
>>83284139
Last Secret Wars wasn't the first either.
Just wait until Annihilation II
