What's the appeal of villains that are evil just for the sake of being evil?
They make me feel good in my pants.
>>83253469
I don't have to think much when I whatch them.
Also, we all have that troll side in us like with Professor Zoom.
>>83253469
Because people likes simple things and were not always 2010's hipsters wanting deepness everywhere?
also the Bible has this type of villains and nobody complains about.
>>83253469
Depends. If there's a logical reason why they can get away with it (post-apocalypse or something), I can dig it as a commentary on how deep down most people are bastards only held in check by social convention. Makes you think about whether or not the people you know would act like that if they didn't face the fear of repercussion. That's interesting to me.
If they aren't played as a 100% edgelord and completely uncharming, they are shit.
But villains who are evil just because can be great if they are entertaining.
>>83253469
They're great for when you want shlocky b-movie thrills.
>>83253469
Because there are actually people like that you dingdong
It would be bad if every character was like that but they aren't
>>83253469
Charisma. Sometimes a villain's entertainment value comes from sheer force of personality rather than complex motives.
They provide something completely incomprehensible to our view points.
There's an ideological current that social oppression and inequality is the overwhelming reason of why people are violent, evil and villainous.
This leads to people creating all sorts of stupid, bizzare reasons for trying to force motivation and background into their villans.
So, when a villian can drop the baggage, there's a certain freshness, and directness.
>>83253623
Right. If you're not going with motives, you need to be on your game on other parts.
I mean compare black manta being oppressed by white people as a motivation, vs his pure "I just fucking hate aquaman".
They're convenient when you just want an adversary for the protagonist to defeat at the end. There are some stories where, if you made the villain a 3-dimensional developed character, it would slow things down or distract from the real focus of the story.
It obviously doesn't apply to every story, but sometimes it's appropriate.
>>83253574
If the context pretty much explains why they're doing bad stuff though, I'd say they're not really "evil for the sake of evil." There's at least some implied desperation or pressure driving them.
>>83253469
Sometimes people are assholes just for the sake of being assholes
No tragic past
No consuming internal hardships
They just love being assholes
>>83253554
>we all have that troll side in us like with Professor Zoom.
Yep. Sometimes we enjoy a character who's just a force of anarchy & likes shaking things up.
It's kind of an antidote to how structured & tidy things often are in fiction. Everything serves a purpose and leads the story towards its resolution.
A character who just wants to disrupt everything makes the story more fun and unpredictable. He's a catalyst to make things interesting.
As long as their motivation isn't that they're craaazy
Name one.
Some of the most generic villains have some kind of motivation, be it megalomania, narcissism, low self-esteem, nihilism, etc.
>>83254750
>>83254747
>>83254685
Nyarlathotep
>>83253469
You can't reason with them. Your ends will never dovetail.
That's what made the original Anti-Monitor - as opposed to the little faggot we got later - so appealing. There was absolutely nothing sympathetic about him, no meeting point. His entire point of existence was killing you. Not because he was insane or traumatized - he wasn't a monster - he was precisely what he was supposed to be. Dedicated, determined, incredibly powerful and he needs you to be dead.
...I guess that's Empty Hand, now. Let's hope they don't mess this up.
>>83253557
>Liking non-simplistic storylines is now a hipster thing
So the bad kids don't feel bad and they have more audience among the little shits by having the villains have unrealistic motives.
>>83253557
>basic storytelling
>hipster
god you're fucking simple
>>83254840
>"Evil"
>>83255587
He is definitely evil, he's a confirmed sadist.
>>83255765
How is enjoying something evil? We might call it evil if he were human. Is enjoying eating steak evil?
Go watch Palpatine do his thing. Seriously any scene from episodes 3 onward when he went o deftly evil.
Why do people like evil characters who are evil just for the sake of being evil? Cos look at how much that motherfucker enjoys his job, that's why.
They are fun in the purest sense of the word
They can be redicolously entertaining if they're not edgelord faggots. Just absolute cunts who are only out for themselves make the best villains. Not /co/ but it's why DIO and Kira are the best JoJo villains. They're just evil dicks out for their own an it's fun too watch.
>>83255205
>>83255344
of course because the people who likes that are always pretentious assholes acting arrogant just for internet street cred.
Look at maleficent
I liked her more in sleeping beauty being evil for evils sake
Then they made that love action where she evil because of humans being greedy
>>83253469
the man who can't be reasoned with does not need to be understood, he needs to be stopped
Sometimes it's fun to just have an enormous asshole to hate with every fiber of your being.
Morally grey villains and comedic villains and suave-as-fuck-smooth-talking villains all have their place but there are times you just want to fucking hate a dude.
>>83253718
>incomprehensible
You're saying this as if your average 4chan anon wasn't a sadistic psychopath.
>>83256548
This, for serious.
How is it actually better to take a villain who loves what they do and give them some convoluted, tragic backstory?
>>83256594
The best villains are the ones everybody loves to hate.
I just clicked on this while someone is playing the episode of Voyager where Tuvok is WTFing about a murderer who did it for no reason.
having some childhood abuse or whatever in their backstory doesn't make them any more interesting and there's a certain charm in someone just doing what they love
>>83253865
>black manta being oppressed by white people as a motivation
Wasn't he just lying when he said that?
>>83258288
Could be something he tells himself. The implication is he'd be a dick conqueror and crook in any color, though.
>>83253557
>the Bible has this type od villain
Anon pls, even satan is sympathetic
>>83253469
To me it's pretty much the same as a hero that is good for the sake of doing good.
I admire the purity and devotion to an Ideal greater than ones self. I can relate to the need for control or some desire for revenge on the villains end. I can relate to a since of duty or penance on the side of the hero. But just to be doing something because you believe in the idea of it, that's special.
>>83253469
That's the face of pure evil! I bethe didn't wash his hands
>>83253469
I prefer villains who just flat out hate the main character. Similarly to Black Manta and Reverse Flash.
Stories are about evoking emotions and expressing ideas and there are so many different ways to do that taking a relatively minor aspect such as complex villain motivations and enforcing "this should always happen" or "this should never happen" as a rule is idiotic.
>>83253623
This. It's why many modern villains (to use a recent example, Bill Cipher) are so popular. Shit plan? Yes. But charismatic and entertaining as all hell? You betcha.
why does motivation matter
if they do bad things, i want to see how they are going to be stopped when they have no trace of moral or even logical reservations
there're many of these kind of baddie, some entertaining some not, i guess that depends on the reader. If you're asking why are entertaining characters entertaining despite whatever, that's kind of begging the question
>>83261007
like every demons, he's a villain for the sake of being a villain, he perfectly know is totally inferior to god, so rebelling against him is madness or stupidity, but he's supposed to be a superior being.
but some religious people said the evilness of satan is part of god's plan, so the real asshole is.....God? what the fuck? that's literally make no sense!
>>83253469
Because simple or not, it still has to be good writing. If you write a villain that's a cardboard cutout with no depth of any sort, and also no charisma, they're bland and forgettable. If you give them some reasoning for why they turned villainous, but still have no charisma, still that doesn't solve anything. But if you have a charismatic villain, they can be memorable and fun to watch just for their antics.
Moreover, if their villainy is tied to specific cause, then in an ongoing story the question becomes 'why don't they just fix it' or 'why doesn't he just get over it already'. You get into that loop many heroes do where their story runs out of runway because resolving their motivation removes their reason for being what they are, but leaving it constantly unresolved becomes more and more ludicrous. Especially those ungodly prolonged romances where we have to keep coming up with bullshit reasons why two people who are so clearly into each other don't just get on with it yet.
I mean look at this season of Flash. Zoom was great until his identity was revealed - at that point, his entire thing became that he was so sad over his parents, and he just HAD to be the fastest man alive. They stop him cold at one point by cardboard cutouts of his parents, and anytime someone brings them up he goes wide-eyed and freezes. It emasculates him as a villain and makes him petty and pathetic. On the other side, you had Reverse Flash in S1, where Thawne just flat out hates the Flash. He does shit because he HATES the Flash, and he's damn good at his villainous smirks and taunts.
