Yesterday I saw something I never thought i'd see.
I saw men, women, young and old, Liberals and Conservatives, feminists, Americans, Brits, Mexicans, the whole world get mad. Get really mad.
And yeah maybe their anger was misplaced. Maybe they are naive and don't get how comics, the status quo, retcons and general brainwashing and reality warping work.
But the whole world stood in front of Captain America. Everyone took up for Steve Rogers.
And I don't care what anyone says, I don't care where this storyline goes. That was pretty cool. And I might not ever see something like that again.
>That was pretty cool. And I might not ever see something like that again.
It's the internet, people get outraged at something every day. It's already largely forgotten.
>>83244502
# triggered!
>>83244502
Yeah, that is the truest fact anyone has ever said.
But not everyone, from all walks of life all over the world. The demographic of this was off the charts.
>We live in a world where Captain America has replaced Superman as the 'genuinely good guy' archetype superhero
>>83244400
It all depends if this is part of a bigger story arc, or if they just made him evil because he's a cis white male and that's how Marvel's comic writers roll now.
Unfortunately, it's the latter that seems more likely.
>>83244400
It's because everybody projects their political views onto him. He's fictional, has been written by many writers, and is largely a symbol before he's a person.
Liberals point to Cap as a New Deal Democrat, conservatives point to him as a patriot and a military man, the old like him in classic comics, and the young like him in movies.
If anything, this was the most predictable outcome, not a unique or special one.
>>83244400
Captain America is a fag
>>83244547
>we live in a world where boys, girls, feminists and gg all want to hug the same person
>>83244572
Status quo will kick in no matter the case.
>>83244400
>But the whole world stood in front of Captain America. Everyone took up for Steve Rogers
Why
He can literally be a Nazi and you faggots will still ride his dick
>>83244400
>Captain America becomes a fascist in the Movies
Hooray, we love you Captain America
>Captain America becomes a fascist in the comics
Oh no, fuck you Marvel
>>83244595
No.
>>83244607
This was the most predictable outcome.
Anon... you never change.
>>83244542
>But not everyone, from all walks of life all over the world. The demographic of this was off the charts
It was largely just twitter and the standard clickbait websites. All the same places for #GiveElsaAGirlfriend and #GiveCapABoyfriend. They tend to make a lot of noise, but their actual impact in anything is negligible.
>>83244628
Because he's a good man. So people got upset.
It's silly in the long run of course but it says a lot.
While this event is cringey in all, the idea of pretty much everybody on the internet giving an actual fuck about something happening to Captain America when only just like 10 years ago, he was more or less a star-spangled joke is impressive.
>>83244698
I'm honestly not surprised at all that people from /co/ are shitting on it and being little bitches but the fact that the rest of the internet at large, all over the place was angry about the same thing? Fuck that's a strange thing to see.
>>83244400
Fun fact about the internet and its relation to comic books:
Firstly the internet doesn't like change. It says it wants exciting new stories, but any time something comes along to shake up the status quo it gets shitty.
Look at Superior Spider-Man. The concept of that is actually pretty good, I.e. one of the heroes biggest villains gets control over his body, but rather than doing the standard thing of performing evil deeds and making the world hate that hero, he learns why the hero does what he does and tries to do better, albeit from a supervillains perspective on how to deal with things.
Now the excecution wasn't great but the concept is sound. But the internet went off the deep end about how "Marvel is shitting on these characters, its a disgrace blah blah blah" even though everyone knew it wasn't a permanent thing.
See the thing is, people don't want to be seen to not know what they are talking about, so they complain about these changes in order to look like they're in the know. Sprinkle in some references to really well known stories and you look like your opinion really matters to normies who also want to fit in.
Take any Batman news story for example. Go on Facebook and do it now. I can guarantee you there will be someone on the comments section trying to seem like they know what they're going on about by referencing the Dark Knight returns, but they talk about it as though it is a canon story that the events of still affect the characters to this day. Or the Killing Joke.
"The whole world stood together" because outrage at changes is the easiest way to seem like you fit in, in discussions about comic books
>>83244671
>It's silly in the long run of course but it says a lot.
Not really. Dude wears an American flag as a costume, is named Captain America and has a place in pop culture at the moment. He's the easiest thing to project an agenda on, since whatever he's into can be spun into being what America stands for. So people want him to a homosexual, socialist, furry, etc. not because of the character himself but because of the greater context of things.
>>83244752
You're preaching to the choir. Nothing you said isn't something we already know.
But why did it affect so many different kinds of people? Why did it affect men and women? Americans and non Americans? Straight and gay? It was something else.
>>83244738
Movie synergy works for some things
>>83244794
Because the Marvel movies are popular and normies now feel some connection to Captain America, a character who wasn't exactly unknown before, but not really in the public eye. Moreso for Hydra whom I could say with some degree of certainty that most people not in the comic book loop wouldn't have heard of.
If Cap wasn't in the MCU or the MCU didn't exist, the only people who would give a shit would be comic book fans
>>83244400
Gay
>>83244671
>Because he's a good man
Goddamn you spergs are worse than the my little pony weirdos
>>83244400
There's nothing cool about retards getting outraged over trivial shit.
I feel like I have to post this. Tom Brevoort - editor at Marvel.
>>83244572
>they just made him evil because he's a cis white male and that's how Marvel's comic writers roll now.
Are you genuinely stupid enough to think this? You do realize this isn't the first time they made Cap evil? It happens all the fucking time in comics. Not even death is permanent in comics. Magneto can become a hero, Spider-man can become a villain and it never ever sticks. You're either unbelievably new or trying to force a whiny political agenda.
>>83244400
I like how you differentiated feminists from Americans
>>83245025
Jesus fucking Christ. What an enormous cunt.
Why do people think those complaining don't understand how comics work?
We know there's a catch and it won't last but it's still fucking stupid and done for shock and headlines because Marvel is whoring itself for those
>>83245132
The sad thing is, this pic is quite old.
Comic business plans are not years in advance. Marvel Studios have a much better business acumen that their comic counter parts.
It is all about short term gains while the business is quite stagnant.
And while I agree, he is a cunt, you have to point a big finger at the audience who buy the crap.
Sometimes it feels like the business practices of comics and videogames are some of the worst business practices in any industry. And the fact is, all the fuckery they do still sells.
>>83245187
See >>83245025
They do not give a shit.
>>83244752
The killing joke did have ramifications on continuity.
Maybe it's just cause I read the recolor ed bullshit but I was really disappointed with the killing joke. I don't think it was as strong as some other Moore stories like for the man who has everything
>>83245025
>people are too retarded to use torrents
Remind me why misanthropy is considered "edgy" and not a natural reaction to the general state of humankind?
>>83245211
No I agree. It takes two hands to clap.
If the fans have a problem they should stop buying the drivel. And while I can't fault someone trying to make money (we all gotta eat) the lack of integrity is sickening.
This is product assembly line creating cheap shit that won't last.
>>83244752
Maybe if Superior wasn't unreadable garbage no one would've been so vocal.
>Now the excecution wasn't great but the concept is sound
First of all: wasn't great is an understatement.
Second of all, you make it sound like having a sound concept is supposed to salvage it. Concept can only take you this far.
>>83244611
Isn't Marvel's current status quo moving from event that'll change everything forever to event that'll change everything forever?
>>83245235
Yeah I realised I worded that poorly, what I meant was that people who want to seem like their in the know will either point to DKR, an out of continuity tale set in an alt future, or to The Killing Joke
>>83245269
>If the fans have a problem they should stop buying the drivel.
It is primarily for one reason: people don't vote with their wallets. People nowadays seem to think that their vocal opinion is worth more than anything else. The most your opinion will get you is a concillatory gesture. The Internet communites at large are frankly retarded. If people actually stood by their ethical opinions of things then we would get real change.
Also I think the common crop of employees can just be described as hacks. You are completely right, they lack integrity. I just think that these people have zero creativity and have really loss the desire to write good stories.
Quite often a lot of the political arguments people make about comics has nothing to do with "SJWs" but is simply shit writing.
I haven't bought a mainstream Marvel/DC floppy in God knows how long. he most we can do is support the actual creative titles elsewhere.
>>83245301
What I meant was that before it came out, before issue 1 even went to print we knew what was going to be coming up, and despite the fact that noone had read it yet, and all we knew was the concept people went nuts about how "it was ruining this great character"
Having a great concept doesn't salvage anything, but when the concept is all you know about the book, and when the concept is sound one might think that you're being negative about the whole idea for no reason other than because you don't like change.
>>83245025
I always love the last bit. Comic fans need their purchases to "count". Because in trying to make events be LIFE CHANGING they are also end up being disposable ploys.
Fans do want their purchases to county. But not in the way he thinks. You want to get on the ground floor of an actual good event, a classic in the making. But you never do nowadays.
>>83245187
so what marvel should never do a story where cap is mind controlled or something? what is the actual problem? last page "shocking" reveals aren't new a neither is this scenario? hell this isn't even a good example of manipulating internet outrage. it's just a stock comic plot.
>>83245425
>all we knew was the concept people went nuts about how "it was ruining this great character"
I tried to explain this to a casual comic reader friend of mine.
The problem I see often is this: people cannot seem to get "canon" out there head. Even normal casual readers seem to obsess over it. So when something happens they love to pour over it (it is why I think the MCU has done so well in films). When somehing happens that people want to forget it is almost like they think the bad cancels out the good.
I tried explaining that your own canon is the good that you take away. But people really need things to "matter" despite the fact these are characters running over decades...
>>83245187
If they just had the page end with Cap going "Hail Hydra" and showing those flashbacks involving his mother and her being given flyers to a secret Hydra meeting, no body would really care. Because like you said this shit has happened before, there are things in Marvel that can implant false memories, etc.
But Marvel went out of their way to say that it's not brainwashing, alternate universe/clone doppelgangers, reality warping, or whatever. That it's THE Steve Rogers and he's been a Hydra agent this whole time. Even if there were plenty of better times he could have turned and have Hydra take over the world, possibly more, than now and from a pure writing perspective this doesn't make sense.
>>83245425
Okay, fair enough.
I was one of the few people hyped for the book, unfortunately what I got was one of the worst Spider-Man stories I have ever read.
>>83245464
I wonder if they could do like a modern version of this today
>>83244752
>Look at Superior Spider-Man.
>Now the excecution wasn't great but the concept is sound. But the internet went off the deep end about how "Marvel is shitting on these characters, its a disgrace blah blah blah" even though everyone knew it wasn't a permanent thing.
You think they didn't WANT that reaction? They deliberately went out of their way to say that "Peter Parker fans would just fade away". They fanned the flames and got exactly the reaction they were looking for. It's their fucking business model.
>>83244400
Honestly.... that's a great way of looking at it. That's cool. Thanks.
>>83245793
>>83245025
aren't overall sales historically down under this mentality?
>>83245906
I'm the OP.
>mfw me and >>83245793
>will be the only ones to ever know the truth
>>83244400
>That was pretty cool.
no it wasn't you casual faggot
>>83245911
The mentality is just one piece of the jigsaw though.
>Diamond monopoly.
>Print media.
>High competitive nature of entertainment.
>Customer aversion to the hobby, fears it is "hard" to get into.
This mentality essentially helps them with what they've got. Overall though they are declining.
>>83245464
Marvel shouldn't purposefully manipulate outrage and offense. If this had been treated as just another story then I wouldn't have a problem with it, but publicising it as heavily as they did and doing the full "THIS WILL CHANGE EVERYTHING" song and dance puts it in the spotlight, and then the thing they've put in the spotlight is a steaming pile of shit.
The character isn't ruined.
This will not matter in the long run.
Those facts do not alter the fact that this is happening now, and matters now.
>>83246175
Stay mad cake boy.
>>83244400
casual detected
its yet another gimmick that'll be resolved in a few issues and everybody will forget it ever existed
>>83245025
in other words, even comics have become clickbait
To me what Marvel did to Thor was worse. I'm not patriotic so Cap. America change didn't bother me. Feminist on the other hand I can't stand. So replacing Thor with a woman who stole his name pissed me off.
>>83246752
Did you even read the whole thing? He said he knew that, he just thought it was cool that so many people cared.
You guys are retarded.
>>83244400
I think it's hilarious
Ever since this got out I've been licking up all these captain fags tears
>>83244400
>Cap is now the most inspirational superhero.
>Brubaker makes a Cap that beats up terrorists.
>Shows Bucky killing people back in WW2 and not being a useless side kick.
>Brought him back.
An amazing run. And guess what? People complained. People complained about all of it.
Of course I am not saying this current story is good like Brubaker's Cap. But it is quite telling.
Brubaker has written some great pieces on the shit he got. "Wahh Cap and Bucky shouldn't kill they are heroes!"
Question for the well-versed Cap fans ITT: at what point is Cap acknowledged to have low grade super strength? Because I'm reading early Avengers and half the time the other characters mention him it's "Man, this guy's really pretty good considering he doesn't have any powers or anything" yet now he's shown to be able to outrun cars and throw his shield hard enough to imbed it in walls.
>>83247430
>Cap acknowledged to have low grade super strength?
cap like most heroes has a nebulous cloud of capability controlled by the whim of the writer. As a rule he isn't supposed to be plain super-strong the only time he was (that I recall) was when he was poisoned by a super villain and giving and antidote that give him super-strength. Also the ultimate version has strength at least equal to spider-man's. but in general cap has always done pretty impossible stuff like throwing his shield so hard it could reach a rocket that had taken off and picking up telephone poles. and stuff like that.
>>83247430
>>83246925
"Whomever holds the hammer if they be worthy shall possess the power of Thor"
Of all the comic book characters, apart from maybe the various Lanterns, Thor makes the most sense for a legacy character.
Nobody complained when Beta Ray Bill got his power
And you know the regular Thor will be back soon enough
Try not to let the very notion of feminism trigger you anon, the irony of it doing so is palpabable
>>83247683
But they were billing that woman as Thor, not someone that's just worth to have his powers, but Thor himself.
It'd be like if some random picked up Cap's shield and said they were Steve Rogers now, not Captain America, Steve Rogers.
>>83247683
>And you know the regular Thor will be back soon enough
When?
>>83247683
Wasnt Donald Blake just a guy who found Mjolnir at first?
>>83247735
Donald Blake was billed as Thor, not someone who is worthy enough to have his powers but Thor himself.
>>83247611
I heard somewhere in my youth that he had "the strength of ten men" and that always stuck with me.
>>83244752
Superior Spider-Man was a Spider-Man comic for people who hate Spider-Man as a character and/or Spider-Man fans (ie. Peter fags).
There is something inherently hateful to comics like Superior Spider-Man, Avenger's Arena and this new Captain America comic. This systematic rape of characters might be an entertaining story for some people not invested in them, but I think it's simply not cricket to treat beloved characters like that.
>>83247843
>he had "the strength of ten men"
that as reasonable as anything I guess. Also here's a modern attempt to quantify cap's strength
>>83247624
This thing needs some rearranging. At the very least Namor and Iron Man should be switched, and Hulk put into a category of his own.
Is Black Bolt really that strong?
>>83248029
>>83247843
>>83247611
He can lift around a ton.
Ultimate was in the 2-3 ton range
MCU is low super-strenght
>but in general cap has always done pretty impossible stuff like throwing his shield so hard it could reach a rocket that had taken off and picking up telephone poles. and stuff like that.
That's the Shield hablity, not his, if he was using an iron hammer he couldnt do that.
>>83248127
Blackagar isn't a pushover
>>83244572
They made him evil because Steve is America, and America is evil becausen they are voting for Trump. That's as far as the creator bothered to think it through, this will obviously not last, probably not even to Civil War II, so who cares?Rebirth hypetrain is where it's at
>>83248239
>That's the Shield hablity, not his, if he was using an iron hammer he couldnt do that.
got a scan? I don't remember the shield having any property like the besides being "balance" so it can return to his hand.
>>83248281
Yeah Black Bolt IS super-strong, and can also charge his might with his ill-defined powers, much like the Surfer.
>>83247683
This. Get mad at the story we got, not the concept.
>>83247767
>>83247829
He Transformed into Thor. I you want to play like that she should genderswap into Thor. There may have been some Birdie the Mighty shit going on too, I can't remember.
Also was retconned that Donald was actually Thor transformed into a human anyway.
>>83248597
I didn't give a shit about the election but now I hope Trump doesn't get elected just so these insane writers will stop holding his character hostage like abusive psychopaths.
>>83247218
Initially his Cap was a little angry, the train scene comes to mind when bad guy throws themselves off a train instead of facing him and he doesn’t react to that. Then the way he abruptly stops said train causing the passengers in the train to get hurt and when Sharon tells him he was reckless about it he kind of shrugs it off.
Although I think the implication there was that he was angry and upset about Disassembled and Clint's death.
But yeah Brubaker didn’t do anything Stan or previous writers didn’t do in his run except for the Bucky thing, I guess Gruenwald was the one who dtarted the No kill rule for Cap and Waid and Priest followed on that (although they were less preachy about it) and if you think about it Cap went a bit over a decade with that mindset so for most people that was their Cap.
>Make a string of movies where Superman is a colossal dick and rarely helps people unless provoked
>Make a string of movies where Captain America is what Superman USED to stand for
>be surprised when people attach to Cap more than Murderman
REMOVE SNYDER. THIS IS THE SAME MAN WHO SAID HE WOULDN'T DO A BATMAN MOVIE UNLESS BRUCE WAYNE WAS RAPED IN PRISON BITCH STYLE BECAUSE BATMAN MOVIES ARE BOOOOOOOOORING MAAAAAAAAAN
>>83249848
>wanting Shillary or Cucknie to win the election so a fictional character can be good again
>>83250276
I'd vote for Trump if he replaced the entire writing staff at Marvel.
>>83245025
>>83250393:^)
>>83250393
>the gag with Thor
>>83250393
>>83250436
I can't tell who this is making fun of. Everyone? Everyone.
>>83250393
Marvel really has changed over the years.
>>83244400
No one gives a shit about comics. This "outrage" is disney marketing and you are probably a shill
>>83247430
Initially in the older comics he kind of was in the low grade area, so much that falling from a high building would be enough to kill him.
But at some point the writers started amping up his super strength, I know he started jumping without chutes in the Gruenwald era.
Even in Disassembled a car gets dropped on him and Hawkeye and Iron Man freak because they thought he was dead only to find he went like a turtle inside the vibranium shield and the weight of the car was enough to keep him pinned down until Iron Man removed it, nowadays he flips cars like they are nothing.
Also if you think about it the way his super strength is portrayed in TFA vs TWS and the movies that came after they made him stronger as the movies progressed.
Still Cap while strong he is pretty vulnerable, like bullets will still kill him and he can get stabbed with a knife.
>>83250637
>I convince metal to do things
>>83247683
People did get mad when Beta Ray Bill grabbed the hammer especially since back then he was introduced as an antagonist and people thought he was a villain.
Bill was also the first guy other than Thor and Odin to pick up Mjolnir too
But Simonson manage to win people over with good writing, also Bill never replaced Thor the first replacement was Thunderstrike Aka Eric Masterson.
>>83251021
Interesting.
No wonder people hate female Thor. She doesn't fit.
>>83247624
Where do Blue Marvel, Hyperion, Sentry andSquirrel Girlfall on this list
>>83251188
Isn't Blue Marvel like Superman or something? I know Sentry is pretty Supermanly.
>>83248127
>Namor and Iron Man should be switched
If you had read it you would have seen that Iron Man states he could be at this level for 2 seconds.
>>83251188
if wonder man is on the top then they are
>>83251252
that seems more to their point really. Also namor did beat the hulk one timein water
>>83251230
they're all superman
Hyperion is literally superman (ultraman?) from another dimension
>>83251296
Yep and at times the early Thing was shown on par with Hulk.
>>83244738
But nobody from /co/ is really shitting on it. The wosrt hate I've seen is people calling it a blatant publicity stunt.
>>83247767
Initially yes, or the comic made it seem that way especially since he thought he was Donald Blake more than he thought of himself as Thor.
Like when he thought Jane was in love with Thor he wasn't too happy about it but when he found out while being Thor that Jane loved Donald Blake it made him incredibly happy enough to fly off around New York with happiness.
But later even after he found out he was Thor he still thought of himself as Don which was one of the reasons he had a falling out with Sif because she didn’t like the life Donald Blake lead, she liked Thor, and a soirce of his problems with Odin who thought it was stupid that he held to that mortal life when he already knew he was a God.
But I kind of liked him being Don mainly because it subverted the whole dumb brute thing since he was a Doctor which also made Thor a healer of the Avengers (like him performing surgery om Cap). Also he fricking managed to finish college and get himself a Phd so that said a lot of how smart he was.
Also the Thor with Iron Man in pic related is an LMD.
>>83247683
I wouldn't have had any issue with it whatsoever if Thor himself was actually turned into a woman (Again? I feel like it might have happened before.) to mirror when Loki rocked the tits and hoohah for awhile, especially if he kept his personality and we got hilarious hijinks out of how confusing it would be for him. Jane is just unbearable as a character.
>>83244607
Oye England, pinche cobardes fuck off. I'm mexican an I like capt. america.
If you ain't England then you're a fucking jew. Fuck off jidf.
And if you Russian, well, we not homies anymore ese.
>>83244400
What's OP referring to?
I thought it was just the predictable SJWs getting mad about Cap
>>83251021
And Eric also won people over because we got to know him in a very personal way before he became Thor and when he was Thor he was rejected by a lot of the characters who were friends with Thor and he had to win them over.
Also Crusher Creel and Titania liked him better than Thor, mainly because Creel beat him around the first time they met but after Creel was in a jam Eric helped him out despite all of it and even reunited him with Titania, he affectionately called him Sparky.
When the real Thor came back it made Creel upset.
>>83251621build wall, you have to go back, etc...
>>83251677
Not sjw's. Everybody got mad.
Not literally but there seemed to be pretty equal parts every demographic.
>>83253328
no one actually cares about comics it was just clever marketing that got that reaction
>>83253533
I dunno about clever. Nick Spencer used a shock and awe tactic the equivalent of clickbait to get people to check it out while also enraging fans of all types.
He admits to getting off on fans anger and pain like a fetishist. He's a hack. He's selling shitty stories on gimmicks for quick and dirty cash without any integrity and lasting worth.
>>83253695
by marketing I mean they paid for articles and other shills to make a big deal out of this
>>83253742
I doubt they paid the thousands of twitter users threatening his existence.
I get it, i'm usually pretty cynical too. I just feel this was all pretty genuine. The outrage I mean.
>>83253775
they only need a few shills for everything to snowball into what it became
>>83253775
>I just feel this was all pretty genuine. The outrage I mean.
Probably. People love outrage because they need an excuse to feel these days because everyone is depressed.
>>83244611
I'm pretty sure most people want to do a lot more than just "hug" Cap.
