How has Marvel gone all this time without a retcon or reboot?
I have a theory that every few years Marvel will get editors together to plot out the future of their multiverse and keep things on track. That way they can set up seeds for stories years in advance.
I think it's because Marvel's multiverse works differently than DC's, obviously. It works much more in line with the infinite worlds theory, so they can just create a separate universe instead of rebooting the main one.
>>83226079
>How has Marvel gone all this time without a retcon or reboot?
Reboot, no, but they retcon shit ALL the time.
Marvel works on a sliding timeline, so things get updated or adjusted, or outright forgotten or rewritten as needed, usually without a line-wide event.
They just ignore chunks of the canon when it suits them.
>>83226079
Marvel retcons stuff all the time, they just don't call attention on it. Usually with individual characters. Also there was a reboot last year.
>>83226186
This isn't DC.
>>83226205
That wasn't a reboot morons
>>83226238
The Multiverse was remade with characters from other continuities added to the main one as if they had always been there, while getting rid of some elseworlds. It was a reboot
>>83226079
CoIE was done to get rid of DC's alternate universes, which were internally seen as confusing and alienating.
Marvel didn't really that much alternate-reality stuff.
Flashpoint was done as a sales gimmick and to make a ton of arbitrary changes to make things "cooler" because the people running DC at the time were retarded.
Marvel sells great no matter what and are publicly seen as the cool comic company already.
>>83226238
>>83226301
It was EXACTLY Marvel copying the original Crisis because Hickman is a huge DC fanboy.
>>83226079
>without a retcon
Except that's wrong you idiot.
>>83226731
>DCucks can't read
>>83226079
Because you don't really need a reboot.
Continuity is not a problem. It's just a tool. It's available for whatever writer that wants to use it. Otherwise it doesn't matter because you don't have to reference old shit to write a good story, but if you want it, it's always there.
>>83226175
This is a much better way of handling things than DC's Secret Convergence Crisis of the Deep Space Infinity Hour bullshit.
>>83226079
Closest thing would be Heroes Reborn, but thankfully that didn't last.
>>83226079
They do multiple retcons a year on various places within the comics line piece by piece.
>>83228200
Considering it is entirely predicated on your readers being stupid, no, the Marvel way is not better than anything.
>No retcons
>What is the Beyonder
>What is Molecule Man
Why aren't Marvels big retcons or reboots very well known? I don't read much Marvel or DC, but I still know about Crisis on Infinite Earths or Flashpoint, but know about nothing similar to Marvel
>>83228517
Because there aren't retcons and reboots like that in Marvel
>>83228517
Because when DC retcons or reboots they make it a big world event, when Marvel does it they just ignore whatever was previously there with 0 explination
>Marvel doesn't do retcons or reboots
>/co/ didn't freak out about "Iceman has always been a closet homosexual"
>no one is freaking out about "Cap has always been Hydra"
>No one freaked out about No More Mutants
>Franklin Richards hasn't recreated the universe two or three times now
>The six people that read the Hellcat and Mockingbird storytimes didn't freak out about the characters being aggressively de-aged
>Nick Fury is still white
>Marvel never changes anything
>>83228368
No it's predicated on readers not being a bunch of sperglords who would shit on a good story cause it conflicts with shit from 15 years ago no one cares about anymore
>>83228577
One More Day is literally a retcon
>>83228833
>Right, it's predicated on Marvel fans being retards. They definitely know their fanbase.
>>83228817
half of those aren't retcons or reboots you fucking retard, they're just in story changes.
>"Cap has always been Hydra"
Red Skull telepathically fucking with Steve. Only a retard would say otherwise
>No More Mutants
An action taken by Scarlet Witch not a retcon. Though Bendis did retcon Chaos Magic
>Nick Fury is still white
the original Nick Fury is still white, they just introduced his son
>>83229162
Give me one DC "recon" that doesn't have an in-universe explanation.
>>83229162
>in-story changes can't be retcons or reboots
>I'm treating OP's words as if they're rigidly defined, exclusive concepts that way I can ignore other obvious status-quo shifts and handwaves that would otherwise count as tweaks to the fundamentals of the marvel universe
>>83229162
the mousketeers are at it again
>>83229162
Then DC has never had a retcon or reboot.
>CoIE
Spectre and Anti-Monitor fuck up reality
>Zero Hour
Parallax fucks up the timeline
>Infinite Crisis
Alex Luthor and Superboy-Prime fuck with reality
>Final Crisis
Darkseid fucks with time and reality
>Flashpoint
Flash fucks with time
>Convergence
Brainiac fucks with reality
>>83226393
This is pretty much the best explanation I ever seen. As a massive DCfag I have to admit that DC always struggled to keep itself relevant, whereas Marvel always has been seen as the hip and cooler comic book company. The movies widened the gap a lot as well.
>>83228910
A retcon that takes away 2 things from 1 character, not a universal reboot
>>83230214
All those are literally starting over with different universes, how are the not reboots
>>83228200
I don't know.
For what I see people eventually grow tired of this bulshit and abandon Marvel due to their retcons and radically different characterizations.
>>83226393
>Marvel sells great no matter what
Nigga what are you talking about Marvel has almost gone bankrupt multiple times already and always try to do dumb shit to mix it up, when they made Heroes Reborn that was to try to save themselves after declaring bankruptcy the previous year, the only reason they pulled themselves out of bankruptcy was because they sold off the movie rights to a ton of their properties to Fox
>>83228817
What about that one time Doc Samson just "got better" over death?
>>83228200
multiversal crises are part of the fun of DC. if you read DC and bitch about reboots, crises, etc., you just don't fucking get DC.
anyone complaining about time-space fuckery in DC is a pleb.
>>83230727
>i am so stupid i literally can't follow a chain of posts and understand the flow of a conversation thinking all posts exist alone by themselves in a vacuum
That's you in the green text. The greentext is describing you.
>>83230727
>starting over with different universes
Making changes to the timeline is not the same as starting over. I don't know why this meme of "DC reboots every 5 years" has been spread.
>>83230952
>I don't know why this meme of "DC reboots every 5 years" has been spread.
more people talk about comics and skim wikipedia entries than actually read them, e.g. ComicsAlliance and i09
>>83230905
>anyone complaining about time-space fuckery in DC is a pleb.
Yes, but when there's no consequence, when any development is simply subject to complete and immediate change,
It doesn't matter.
>>83231003
You're literally describing Marvel not DC
>>83231000
If your response to everything is going to be "You don't read comics" or "you are a Marvel shill", you can just stop and we'll take it as given you have nothing to contribute.
>>83231003
>Yes, but when there's no consequence, when any development
come on. it's comics. there's no real consequences or development. everything is undone and changed eventually.
>>83231040
>implying he's not describing both
>>83231142
how else do you explain the spread of "DC reboots every 5 years" other than ignorance? people saying that are either stupid, ignorant, or dishonest.
which do you think it is?
>>83231040
It's like DC can reboot, spout some Morrison-gibberish about quantum menstrual timeline bleeds, and you can pretend everything is just part of some reasonable continuity.
>>83231190
At least with DC there's some explanation to this shit instead of Marvel's "eh fuck it who cares they probably didn't even read the 10 years of comics this contradicts"
>>83231205
The only thing vaguely holding together DC continuity is Batman, because they feel the money is with maintaining his growing harem of sidekicks.
>>83231255
Ultramightyguy broke ur reality is a third-grade explanation, but it's fine your satisfied with it.
>>83231261
that doesn't answer the question.
>>83231255
>implying that makes it OK
>>83231310
remember, kids, when Marvel does something crazy off-the-wall it's "fun." when DC does, it's omgsofuckengaywhyarentheyoutoffbusinesspanderinggrimdark
>>83231322
Rebooting, then back-rationalizing them or rebooting them again so the reboot "never happened", does not change the fact of a reboot.
Nor does having the editor-in-chief's pet character(s) blatantly ignore the reboot.
>>83231142
Looks like the mouseketeers are starting to get flustered at people finally calling them out on their shit.
>>83231392
>remember, kids, when Marvel does something crazy off-the-wall
Making Doc Ock Spider-Man isn't the same as "The last 5 years of comics were a dream sequence".
But nice try.
>>83231420
i love reboots
you're still not answering the question. DC doesn't reboot regularly. anyone who says they do is either stupid, ignorant, or dishonest.
which are you?
>>83231421
Highest quality post.
>>83231420
DC has had two reboots ever, and they're literally working on redacting one of those the last Secret Wars Marvel has was literally a reboot
>>83231476
dishonest
>>83231532
>and they're literally working on redacting one of those
That still doesn't unmake it a reboot.
>>83231420
>Nor does having the editor-in-chief's pet character(s) blatantly ignore the reboot.
Which character?
Because Green Lantern lost his friendship with Green Arrow, which fucks over a lot of Hal's character development. It even fucks over how he got his ring back in Rebirth.
>>83231504
Thank you.
>>83226079
>How has Marvel gone all this time without a retcon
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>83231261
>I've never read DC seriously other than Batman
Holy shit
>>83231040
That's both of them though.
>>83231632
Hey remember that time Spider-Man selling his marriage effected events that happened BEFORE his marriage?
Remember that time Gwen Stacy fucked Stormin Norman Osborn and had two kids?
And hey remember that time Iron Man was a teenage boy? Am I allowed to bring that one up? Boy was that a swell time!
>>83231632
But they don't retcon anything other than details. Pretty much every story they ever published is still canon
>>83230727
>All those are literally starting over with different universes
You're literally a fucking idiot.
>>83231000
>i09
Their Rebirth roundtable was fucking infuriating to read.
>>83231718
You sure about that one kid?
>>83231718
So are DC's, the timeline just includes big multiversal altering events. Thus giving DC an actual reason as to why things changed instead of "this is just how things are now."
>>83226079
Marvel's style sucks too however. You don't need to reboot if you always send the characters back to where they were before (with exceptions, of course)
For example, I have been reading doctor strange stuff for decades now, and the character has been mostly at the same place where he fucking started, with all changes to the status quo being actually depreciative.
More than once Marvel has done a story that explains continuity gaffs. One of the last times was The End. There was another one after that but I can't remember what it was called.
But the out comes were something along the lines of "cosmic shit sends ripples through the continuity, so now some obscure trivia is changed and who knows what else we'll alter when we feel like it"
All this shit would stop if ya'll just give up non-imprint Big Two comic books.
>>83231775
The fact that Mephisto had to undo it mystically means that it in fact still did happen to be undone.
Admittedly it IS a reboot of Spider-man's continuity, and theres no denying that.
>>83226079
>I have a theory that every few years Marvel will get editors together to plot out the future of their multiverse and keep things on track.
Your theory is wrong.
>>83231896
The Beyonder and Molecule Man both got their powers from a Cosmic Cube we literally saw this happen, and then a later comic just says nah he's a mutant and an inhuman
>>83231896
>The fact that Doctor Manhattan had to undo it scientifically means that it in fact still did happen to be undone.
>>83231896
The exact same thing can be said of DC's reboots though. Everything before DID happen. Hell, there are even characters that straight up remember the way it used to be.
>>83231459
>taking Section Eight seriously
Yeah, and I suppose Galactus is now an obnoxious idiot like he was portrayed as in Squirrel Girl, right?
Also, speaking of Galactus, Ultimates is basically utilizing the same tropes you're bitching at DC about right now.
>>83226079
It's because Marvel isn't garbage like DC.
>>83231715
It's funny because Teen Tony was recalled by Waid in All New All Different Avengers. Everything happened, it's just ignored conveniently until a writer comes up with it.
Yeah all the Spider-man bullshit that's happened in the last 10 years was god awful.
>>83230773
You need to explain cosmic level events to tell the history of Jim Gordon.
And yes Marvel has had some stupid and messed up retcons,but DC does it too.
Also Marvel still doesn't have a Hawkman.
>>83232020
They let him do that?
And here I thought the policy at Marvel was it never happened and to never bring it up again.
>>83226079
>>83226175
I'm so glad Transformers works on a timescale that doesn't need this
>>83231718
My favorite Marvel "it never happened" story is the FF story Masters of Doom
>>83232077
True. The closest Marvel has are the Maximoff's. Which is still not even close.
Does anyone think we will ever find out what Nick Fury said to Thor?
Or who was Miles in 616 that Peter saw at the end of Spidermen?
you know what I miss, DC/Marvel Crossovers.
those were fun.
>>83231765
there's no way they're not paid shills. gawker media does articles as advertising. they used to label them as such, but not anymore.
the consistently shit all over anything DC does while constantly hyping Disney properties.
>>83231765
What was this?
>>83232077
No, you don't. You don't need to explain cosmic events for Batman's stories either, save for one or two.
>>83226079
One reason is that most of Marvel's characters were created in the '60s and their original runs are, if not always great, at least well respected. People want to use the stories by Stan and Jack and Steve as a jumping-off point for their own stories.
Superman started earlier and different writers/editors have different ideas about which of his early stories are valuable (some love the Silver Age stories, some don't). With most of the Marvel characters, most writers and editors agree that the '60s is where their story begins.
Keep track of the Richards children that is how you know.
>>83232888
I agree.
Once DC is stable and Marvel isn't fucked in the head, there needs to be another one.
>>83235508
Won't happen while Quesada has any power.
>>83226079
>How has Marvel gone all this time without a retcon or reboot?
>No retcon
Oh boy I am laffin
>>83235508
Never, ever going to happen. Marvel even hates the X-men and FF for not being movie properties. Quesadilla would sooner kill his own family than look at a DC character.
>>83231261
>The only thing vaguely holding together DC continuity is Batman
That's funny since the thread that ties DC continuity is and always has been Superman
>>83231896
Are you fucking brain dead? DC's reboots have all been caused by something in universe. If it was just a clean break you would have a point but it wasn't, so you don't
>>83232421
>Does anyone think we will ever find out what Nick Fury said to Thor?
Probably Hail Hydra or some shit
>>83226079
because they count on their audience being dumb (like you)
>>83226079
because you weren't paying attention
>>83236000
>>83236566
The problem has never been Marvel. For years, they've been trying to make a Daredevil/Batman crossover happen, but DC have said they will never allow it to happen until someone at Marvel is no longer there.
The popular theory is that it's Joe Quesada who needs to go. People seem to think it's because he liked to stir up shit between the companies, though I have a different theory.
Bob Harras, currently EiC at DC Comics, used to be EiC at Marvel comics. During his era, Marvel went into bankruptcy. During bankruptcy, Harras took a big risk, by outsourcing a few of Marvels underperforming/cancelled titles to "Event Comics", run by Joe Quesada and Jimmy Palmiotti. As I'm sure you know, this was the "Marvel Knights" line. This line was so successful, that Joe Quesada became the EiC of Marvel, and every book essentially became Marvel Knights. Joe Quesada became praised as the saviour of Marvel as they came out of Bankruptcy
So, imagine you're Bob Harras, you take a big risk by bringing in these outsiders into your company, and when they're successful, you're paid back by them taking your job, and now everyone remembers you as the editor who was in charge of the ship while it was sinking, and that the young buck that you hired is the one that saved the day. I'd be pretty bitter towards Quesadilla, too.
>>83236825
>Thor became unworthy when he learned Cap was Hydra all along
>>83228833
>being okay with stories that read like fan-fiction Cause marvel could care less about Logical structure.
>>83231206
At least DC tries to have an in-universe reason for their retcons and not just let the writers pull whatever they want out of their ass and claim that if it conflicts with pre-existing continuity or characterization, it's canon. Marvel has been doing that shit for the last 15 years and I've tried sticking with them through out all of their bullshit but the one thing I've come to realize is that Marvel editors simply don't give a shit, rules and logic don't fucking matter to them as long as shit is selling. I might as well go watch doctor fucking who.
>>83230905
no because most of the crisis type events are actually written for plebs and fairly shit.
DC is good because they have more self-contained runs on obscure characters with good writers, it lets people make actual good comics instead of worrying about events.
If you think DC is about crises then YOU are the pleb.
>>83226301
>>83226238
the 8 month gap thing has also been used by basically everyone to ignore any inconvenient previous continuity since they can just say something happened in the 8 months to resolve it
>>83229674
>>83229356
superboy?
>>83229162
>>83230214
hydra cap is a storyline you idiot, it doesnt fucking retcon anything. red skull is giving him false memories because he has xaviers brain so he has telepathic powers, the memory is not actually canon it's just in caps mind.
>>83226079
Secret Wars III was a Crisis style reboot where they brought several character from other worlds to mainline continuity,
There was also Onslaught and Heroes Reborn, the only thing is it was so bad they retconned it halfway in, in to being an event.
>>83228200
This
I vastly prefer dc in general but marvel retcons shit all over dc retcons
>>83231588
oh ffs, rebirth fixed nearly all of new 52's shit, while keeping its best parts, and makes all of pre-flashpoint canon again
at the time it was a reboot, but this retro actively fixed it
Do canon and timelines and continuities matter though? If you enjoy the story itself, why should it matter where it fits in some bigger design?
>>83226079
They have. It was called Secret Wars, it resulted in All-new Marvel
>>83240966
Was fairly recent maybe they will decide it was a failed experiment
