So why did people hate New52 Superman so much? Looking back at his relatively short reign, he actually got some great stories:
>Morrison Action Comics
>Johns' Men of Tomorrow
>Superman Unchained
>Paktion Comics (especially the first arc. It wavered after that, but was still good)
Heck, even Lobdell's DBZ-tier shit was pretty decent to read with your brain turned off. I think getting 4 great arcs in 5 years is pretty impressive, especially for Superman.
And when you look at what some other characters got, you gotta give the New 52 some props. Wonder Woman got an excellent run, Batman had a few great arcs, Lemire's Green Arrow was awesome, Shazam's new origin and inclusion in the JL was fantastic, if underutilized, Johns' Aquaman was the best thing to happen to the character since Peter David, and Parker's run was solid, Jonah Hex had a great series and probably the best finale issue he could hope for, Forever Evil was fun, too. There are probably a bunch of other little things New 52 certainly isn't the cancer people make it out to be.
Unchained was crummy but still those are the exceptions, not the rule.
That said, I don't understand why anyone thinks he's "edgy" or anything like that because he's not. It's just his costume sucks.
There was nothing wrong with him and I don't understand why they had to kill him.
They could've left him depowered and then Clark's identity problem would've been resolved.
>>83212641
Turns out that Superman fans are the real casuals that don't actually read comics.
This is also proven but how few people buy those comics.
>>83212694
>those are the exceptions, not the rule.
I feel like, with monthly comics, good stuff is always the exception. The majority is, at best forgettable, and at worst abysmal.
I think he got some runs over the past few years that should be considered among his best.
>>83212641
>Wonder Woman got an excellent run
Could've been don without New 52
>Batman had a few great arcs
Like what? We got Incorporated fucking butchered and killed as soon as Morrison left, we got fantastic Dick as Gotham Batman/Bruce as Planet Batman dynamic killed. Can't remember a single story that'd be worth it for those.
>Lemire's Green Arrow was awesome
Discount Immortal Iron Fist with SHIT art
>Shazam's new origin and inclusion in the JL was fantastic
No
>Johns' Aquaman was the best thing to happen to the character since Peter David
It was also completely independent of New 52 and in fact came out of Brightest Day
>Jonah Hex had a great series
It was great since 2005 though
>Forever Evil was fun
Nigger please
TL;DR None of the good stuff needed New 52 to happen. You might frget or just plain not know but the first two-three years of it were a dirty ugly mess of editorial and management fuck ups almost weekly
>>83213007
>None of the good stuff needed New 52 to happen. You might frget or just plain not know but the first two-three years of it were a dirty ugly mess of editorial and management fuck ups almost weekly
My point is that nothing needs any particular continuity to "happen". We just need good stories.
>not liking NuShazam
this is probably the easiest way to tell when someone has shit taste. The only reason to hate that is a serious, blinding case of "not muh".
>>83212641
Hated his costume
>>83213007
>I hate good stories
I hate posters like you
Liked the costume, i liked the new 52 armour look no idea why,
Spandex always looked "outdated" to me
>>83212641
Honestly, I think at least part of it was the "not muh Supes" thing, especially when he started sticking it in Wonder Woman.
I know that despite story quality, I still had a "not MY Superman" feeling every time I read his books no matter how hard I tried (as opposed to the Superdad series, which was instant happiness). It was a feeling that never went away with him.
NuSupes end character development with Morrison.
After that it was power feats and added abilities with hindrances that also serve as plot devices in reserve.
Batman/Superman sucked.
Superman/Wonder Woman really sucked.
Justice League Superman really, really sucked.
And MUH Superman is not a cuck.
>>83213157
I didn't hate it, but some artists drew it better than others. Some made it look downright awful. Lee handled it best, obviously.
I like the idea of his costume being Kryptonian in origin, the whole bit of him reclaiming it from Brainiac was pretty neat. I never much cared for the "my mom made it for me" angle, since it always seemed so forced on him. Plus, being Kryptonian actually offers a good explanation as to why it's indestructible.
That said, I also like the rebirth design, besides the stupid blue boots. It's a shame they didn't use pic-related. Probably one of the best Supes costumes I've ever seen.
Why is Morrison unable to fuck up bros?
He made me love Superbro.
>>83213326
That costumes nice prefer OPs pic. But that supes looks really bad to me looks like he has down syndrome.
He started with a different personality (which was a good thing), he was cocky, sure of himself and had kind of a short temper for bullshit. He wasn't the paragon of good and virtue he was pre-New 52 and that was alright.
He kind of became pretty much the same character, personality-wise, to his pre-new52 self months before his death, which was both heartwarming and...underwhelming. I liked him.
Why are people so upset about him dying, is he not coming back or something?
>>83213157
You are the cancer, Jim Lee.
>>83212641
what's up with 2 supermen? why they make it so convoluted?
>>83213391
the non existent cancer ok bro.
>all this superbro apologism
jesus.
>>83213458
>implying superbro was bad
you never gave him a chance before you wrote him off screaming MUH EDGE.
>>83213007
Forever evil was the only good new 52 arc. I'll give you the rest though. Darkseid war wasn't terrible either. But the rest was garbage.
>>83213007
You're one of thoooooose. Move along fellas.
>>83212641
Supes does seem a tiny bit money at times but other then that I don't see why people called him edgy
Now the costume was shit but it's just getting worse.
Nobody would have cared if you had kept him alive and adjusted his personality just enough to fix his few minor problems
>>83213007
Nobody said any of it needed the new 52 anon
>>83213328
I think supermans stupid lines about equal justice at the start of that issue is where most of the accusations of edginess come from.
>>83213605
*A tiny bit mopey
>>83212641
He has had some good stories, but for some reason the character as never quite grew on me.
Superman and Lois, on the contrary, was mediocre short series, but i liked the character more.
In any case, kill nu52 Superman is bullshit. Then, perhaps, we will find out that he's SuperBoy-Prime or SuperBoy Connor, but in any case for me two Superman could coexist peacefully. Nu52 as the main Superman and Post Crisis as a simple reserve.
>>83212641
Turns out "NOT MUH" is a valid complain when said by Superfags
>hypocrites
>>83213692
N52 Superman on JLA/JL and Pre-FP SM on JSA.
That's a agreeable setup for me.
>>83213307
>NuSupes end character development with Morrison
At least he HAD character development though. He barely had any before that. In most pre and post-crisis stories, his character was always "morally perfect, endlessly-compassionate god who is loved by everyone"
>>83213527
>Darkseid war not terrible
>Rest was garbage
I didn't think it was possible to have taste this pleb. Although to be fair, Darkseid War started phenomenally, but it only makes what followed that much worse.
>>83213376
>Why are people so upset about him dying, is he not coming back or something?
He likely will, but to me, it's the fact that they are taking the current universe's Superman, a Superman that actually had some variety in his characterization, and are forsaking him to the grave just so they can paste pre-Flashpoint Superman back into the books to appease neckbeards.
It's a sound strategy. There are people in this thread that openly admit that the recent Lois and Clark series was nothing remarkable, but they liked it simply because it was "Muh Superman".
>>83213376
I think he's going to come back but he'll be revealed to have been Superboy Prime or Kal-L or some shit. It's clear he'll never be the main Superman again, Superdad will be the one true Superman.
>>83213977
>It's clear he'll never be the main Superman again
Sucks. He had more variety and growth in 5 years than most Supermen get.
>inexperienced, cocky, T-shirt Supes
>overconfident, stoic early JL Supes
>compassionate, friendly standard Supes
>disillusioned, betrayed, struggling "Truth" Supes
And then he finally gets his powers back, eager to be Superman once again, just in time to fucking die. Being New 52 Superman was suffering.
I think the biggest dilemma was that DC was pushing him as being really young and mopey, even if that didn't really come across in the comics a lot. Now if they had started out marketing him as a mischevious silver age jerk, it would have probably worked mich better, but for some reason, every cover had him look like he was about to murder someone.
>>83213977
Well if they are doing this why not bring pre-52 Batman back too?
>>83214143
Nobody cares about him before. It 's just when a character dies, that people, immediately, starts worrying. People are compassionate with the deads, exactly as they are hateful with the livings.
>>83213083
>My point is that nothing needs any particular continuity to "happen". We just need good stories.
Stories that do build off each other and go somewhere can be more long-term satisfying than ones that constantly happen in a vaccuum or pull spontaneous, contextless character "development" out of their ass rather than having it be the product of experience the reader has witnessed.
>>83214323
>not bring pre-52 Batman back too?
Because Pre52-Batman has always been here. it's all mind fuck made from Doc manhattan. But Superman was away when it happened, and then, Doc had to find a replacement.
Nu52 Superman has always been a fake. Virtually the Dc readers are experiencing now the marvel saga of Clone with twenty years late.
>>83214368
Why do you speak in plurals like the cartoonishly foreign guy from Ghostbusters 2?
Marvel conditioned comic readers to only like SJW garbage
semi related, but will DC fix lobo too? that new faggoty fuck was incredibly boring. why not keep lobo the way he is, as a remnant of the 90s if nothing else
>>83214496
Oh I imagine the only reason for that particular un-retcon to take any time at all is solely due to a lack of non-Lantern space books for Lobo to appear in.
>>83214450
>But Superman was away when it happened, and then, Doc had to find a replacement
OK please please help me out here. I've been trying to figure this out.
Where was Superman when "it" happened?
Have we seen on-panel anywhere that N52 Superman isn't actually Superman at all (A la clone saga)?
Basically I've been thinking of this whole thing as
Pre-Flashpoint Supes = Earth-2
N52 Supes = Earth 1
but now I'm realizing that that isn't true at all, since Rebirth isn't quite so Crisis-y.
If Flash, Batman, everyone is the New 52 version AND the post-crisis version, WHY are there TWO Supermen??
>>83214590
the Nu52 has been revealed to be the same universe as Post-Crisis DC, all the people are the same but their histories have been tweaked by Dr. Manhattan.
According to Convergence, Superman was yoinked out of the timeline pre-Flashpoint by Brainiac.
If he's the real Superman, then Nu52 Superman must be some kind of replacement-Clark that Manhattan found elsewhere and slotted in because someone has to fill Clark's role in the universe.
Lois was stolen by Brainiac too, though, so they've still gotta explain why there's two of her.
The most logical guess at the moment eeems to be Nu52 Lois and Clark were the Kal-L and Lois who died in Infinite Crisis. They were originally from the Pre-Crisis Earth 2 which was based on the Golden Age, and Nu52 Clark's origin is deliberately extremely similar to Golden Age Superman's.
>>83214590
>but now I'm realizing that that isn't true at all, since Rebirth isn't quite so Crisis-y.
>If Flash, Batman, everyone is the New 52 version AND the post-crisis version, WHY are there TWO Supermen??
Realistically the writers had not planned this mess. "In story" we still we do not know.
One hypothesis (but of course does not mean anything) is that, when pre Flashpoint Superman has joined the Convergence, along with Lois, this drove him out "his time".Creating a paradox with Lois too.
Obviously no one knows yet what the fuck is going on.
>>83213007
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c
Justice League 3000,Justice League International,Justice League United, Secret Origins,Worlds' Finest,Arkham Manor,Gotham Academy,Gotham by Midnight,Grayson,Batman/Superman,Superboy,Larfleeze,Red Lanterns, Sinestro,Blue Beetle,Legion Lost,G.I. Combat,Infinity Man and the Forever People,Stormwatch,Team 7,Threshold,Animal Man,Demon Knights,Dial H,Frankenstein, Agent of S.H.A.D.E.,Resurrection Man,Swamp Thing,The Multiversity, some Convergence minis etc
>>83212641
That first Justice League arc left people with a horrible first impression that he never really got to recover from.
>>83212641
I'm reading Nu52 Supes for the first time (Action Comics and Superman runs) and while Action Comics is solid the self titled book is just so bland.
There's just nothing interesting going on so far (I'm on issue 10 iirc). Maybe it gets better when a new writer takes over but for this being their kickoff to a reboot it's severely underwhelming
The Shade,The Ray,Phantom Lady and Doll Man,The New 52: Futures End,Forever Evil,Damian: Son of Batman ,Klarion, Prez
Superman-Batman was also pretty cool, at least before he got depowered and Jim was Robatman
>>83214790
>>83214933
Do you know where teh enter button is?
>>83214933
>Klarion
I thought people hated that comic?
>>83215050
Well, i kinda liked it.
>>83215033
Tablet, sorry
>>83214933
>The Shade,The Ray,Phantom Lady and Doll Man
There are people who still care about the Freedom Fighters?
This was what? Their fourth version in a decade?
>>83215168
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_c8ol1NB3Y
Why not?
>>83213488
Can you really blame them? Those first promo images made him look like a fucking neo-nazi.
Bad first impressions.
>>83214771
>>83214773
>my head right now
Guess I shouldn't have skipped Convergence.
>>83215168
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cR-6rBpYz0
>>83212641
The only issue I have with him is his lack of red shorts.
>>83215309
Fuck that I hope they never come back.
>>83213413
Go back in time 50 years and complain about there being 2 Flashes. That's where it all started.
>>83215605
>>83215640
A pity that it did not last. I liked the Old Superman in the JSA.
To me the big problem with Nu52 Superman is that right from the start DC didn't have a fucking idea what he was supposed to be and every writer had his own version of him. You can tell me he's had good stories over the few years, but I can't connect those stories to an actual character, just a placeholder with 'Superman' written on it. With the old Superman I at least always knew who he was.
The only enduring trait of Nu2 Superman was that lois was friendzoning him, which was bullshit bullshit BULLSHIT.
>>83214916
>the self titled book is just so bland
Anon, just stop. It doesn't become worth reading at all until Geoff Johns takes over, around issue 32 I think? Just skip to that if you wanna read something good.
>>83215836
Wow, what a sperg. You sound like the kind of person who incorrectly values familiarity and consistency over quality and variety. Please remove yourself from the gene pool.
>>83212641
Comic books fans are horrible people ruining comics
>>83215216
And yet in that same first issue, this happened.
It's just further proof that the loudest complainers don't actually read the comics they complain about. Anyone who had been reading Action Comics or Superman up to that point had just come off of two pretty great arcs that showed Superman to be as compassionate and human as ever, so anyone with half a brain would know that regardless of a new haircut, his personality wasn't going to change overnight.
>>83213948
>He barely had any before that
>his character was always "morally perfect endlessly-compassionate god who is loved by everyone"
Listen. This was my issue with nu52 to begin with. Rehashing everything all over again with a twist. All this change, post crisis Superman had already gone through it. Gone through decades of change following different tendencies and the next writer trying to reconcile it all. Then even his pre crisis history was consolidated with the LoSH. Don't tell me he hadn't changed before. Or been flawed. It's showing.
>>83216184
He said Nu52 has good stories, but he did not like the way they portrayed Superman. And on some things he's right. Nu52Superman changes personality from one author to another.
>>83216184
Right, because consistent characterization isn't at all important when it comes to liking characters.
C'mon.
>>83212641
It's people who didn't read yelling NOT MUHHHH
90% of people who actually read enjoyed.
>>83215640
Now there's the real MVP. Kingdom Come Superman.
Man, what a guy.
Can you imagine a story with KC Superman, Kal-L, Pre-Flashpoint Superman AND New52 Superman in it?
Make this happen, DC, chop chop.
>>83216271
He changed in the ways that any character changes when handed to different writers, but post-crisis Supes didn't grow as much in his 25 years as Nu52 did in just 5. There was a conscious effort to show that younger Superman was a different person, and that he had a hard time working with others in Justice League, and we eventually saw him become the Superman everyone expects in later issues of Superman and Action Comics, only to then have it ripped away from him.
And despite the fact that it ultimately dragged on too long without purpose, the Truth arc was probably one of the most interesting concepts the character has seen in years.
>>83212641
>Looking back at his relatively short reign
Honestly if you think Superman is going to stay dead, you should have stayed on the short bus. Preboot Superman's upcoming run is the equivalent of Gordon filling in for Bruce as Batman. It's temporary.
Remember when DC fags used to defend the Nu52 (me included) against Marvel in company war threads?
Remember how we dismissed haters for not reading any of these good books when slagging off the reboot?
It's bizarre to see all these people suddenly turn on it and bring out the knives. Fucking Johnsfags.
>>83216498
post crisis Superman stopped evolving the minute Byrne left the book to be honest.
>>83212641
Morrison's run was good but slightly disjointed. John's run was fun but dumb as shit. Superman Unchained was OK but generally a let down from the high stakes action of his Batman run (also it took forever to finish shipping). I thought Pak's run was hot garbage.
Lots of new 52 Superman moments were him hitting a monster and getting knocked around before losing his powers and getting them back or something. Boring.
>>83214771
Wait so 52 Supes was Golden age superman? Would that explain why he actually developed a new power?
>>83212641
>So why did people hate New52 Superman so much?
The main Superman ongoing was unreadable. You had literally one year worth of shitty stories by Perez and Giffen/Jurgens playing to the nonexistent Daemonite crossover. Then fucking Scott Lobdell on Superman. Before being returning to some semblance of sanity with a brief arc by Johns and then Johns quits and you get the unappealing Gene Yang.
Action Comics had a good year and a half worth of stories under Morrison. Then a brief shitstorm with Diggle/Daniel. Then Pak comes along. But the problem with Paktion and Yang's Superman is really the inundation of crossovers (that is undoubtedly Berganza's fault since he did the same thing when MOA ran the Superman book). And Pak's strengths are NOT crossovers. His best Superman moments are usually standalone stories like the Secret Origin story he wrote with Lara or the Doomsday one shot.
Which is the biggest problem with the Superbooks presently. Editorial is playing the books mostly as large epic set pieces or as part of larger crossovers when they should be more standalone. It's why Nu52 Superbooks feels so shit compared to the Post-Crisis reboot which had its flaws, but it wasn't such a massive failure where 1/2 the books were unreadable or you had a constant revolving door of writers.
>>83216742
>but generally a let down from the high stakes action of his Batman run
You have absolute shit taste, Snyder's Batman is a snorefest and has no stakes at all.
>>83216956
His Joker arcs were underwhelming, but Zero Year was nice and the Court of Owls is the greatest addition to his gallery of villains in a long time.
>>83216269
I'm not complaining about the story I'm complaining about the promo art.
I want them to stop doing that shit because it's making people not want to read the comics.
>>83215355
Fuck that I hope they do
>>83217142
Court of Owls was the only ok thing about Snyder's run.
Other than that, terrible. I hate to sound like a morrisonfag but we went from one of the greatest Batman runs of all time to Snyder's.
>>83217185
>I'm complaining about the promo art.
But... Why?
>it's making people not want to read the comics.
Again, how preview story and just cover makes you not read one of the greatest challenge of superman?
>>83217244
You sound like a kid who hasn't read lots of comics/haven't been reading very long
>>83216555
>post crisis Superman stopped evolving the minute Byrne left the book to be honest.
Byrne Superman was already mature and veteran in man of steel. Despite this, the character has had to manage a lot of changes in his life. Like the time where Luthor became President, Superman has had to evolve a lot to accept what was being asked to him.
At that time also he was smiling less and wearing the black S for mourning.
To be frank, even Batman and Wonder Woman have not changed so much.
>>83217244
Maybe that is the problem. Snyder's run is far from bad, but we were used to Grant Morrison.
>>83217142
The Batgordon stuff had great art and but the story was a mess.
Waste of awesome designs IMO.
>>83217296
I'm more knowledgeable about Batman and have been reading for far longer than you have, I assure you. You're the one that seems a bit childish and your taste seems terrible if Snyder is what you consider great.
>>83217445
Yeah, in the end it went nowhere and Gordon looked like an incompetent old man while Bruce 2.0 saved the day.
>>83217244
>Court of Owls was the only ok thing about Snyder's run.
>Other than that, terrible. I hate to sound like a morrisonfag but we went from one of the greatest Batman runs of all time to Snyder's.
I swear, the only thing I could think about while reading Court of Owls was "RIP did it better"
>>83212641
Because it was a fundamentally different character. Superman is a dude who saves people when nobody else can just because he can. New 52 "Superman" is just a guy with Superman's powers and name. But as many people have pointed out, Superman's powers are boring and the character is a generic bland template who on top of that is ludicrously overpowered. When you remove the "guy who gets shit done just purely because it needs doing" aspect or the "farm boy from small town America" aspect or the relationship dynamic he has with his supporting cast you're just left with the ultimate generic superhero who's retardedly overpowered on top of that and no one wants that.
>>83212641
>Heck, even Lobdell's DBZ-tier shit was pretty decent to read with your brain turned off.
No it wasn't.
>>83214590
>Have we seen on-panel anywhere that N52 Superman isn't actually Superman at all (A la clone saga)?
It's stated in Rebirth that the dead Superman isn't who he (Pre-Flashpoint Clark) thought he was, and Clark isn't who he thinks he is either. The Clark bit is probably just referencing how he didn't realize that he's in his own world. Although it's revealed by Wally in the narrative that it's all the same world, just altered by an outside force, Clark never learns about it in the issue itself. We'll probably get confirmation in the Rebirth one shots, I think. At least, for Pre-Flashpoint Clark. New52 probably will be a mystery for longer.
>Where was Superman when "it" happened?
At the end of Convergence, everyone is sent back to their own timelines, but Parallax Hal, Superman and Lois choose to follow Barry and Kara to the original Crisis, rather than return to their original times. The Pre-Flashpoint people were taken from right before the flashpoint energy wave was covering the world and presumably sent back to the same moment. So, Superman and Lois weren't there when Flashpoint happened.
Yes, Pre-Zero Hour Parallax Hal never returned to his original timeline either, but we'll probably get some kind of explanation about Hal and Parallax in Green Lantern. During their battle in 50, modern Hal became some kind of energy ghost for a while, so there's something odd with him too.
>>83216849
That's just speculation at this point. We just have Oz vague statement about him not being who we thought he was, alongside both Clark and Lois having doubles, while everyone else, even Wally, is the same before and after Flashpoint.
>>83217795
But it didn't, anon
>>83212641
Underwear fags getting their underwear in a bunch.
>>83217244
>Zero Year
>terrible
What, it's one of the best stories in the last years.
Also Morrison's run felt pretty tired at the end
>>83218106
It absolutely did. The Court of Owls is just a poor man's Black Glove.
They're just cooler with kids because of the cool masks.
>>83217868
>Superman's powers are boring and the character is a generic bland template who on top
How can it be generic, when Superman is the character who established this template.
The issue with Superman isn't his powers. The issue with Superman is the setting the writer try to keep the character in. A character with powers like Supes shouldn't be confined to an alter-ego who tries to live a regular human life and whose villains are hardly even as powerful as he is.
Superman needs stronger villains and a more flexible setting for his alter ego - this means, no Daily Planet, no limiting the character to Metropolis and no Lois Lane.
However, if you try to mess with all that baggage, purists will whine.
>>83218629
Black Glove was some metaphysical supernatural cabal
Court of Owls is just an illuminati/masonic kind of thing
they aren't really that similar
>>83218106
Say what you will about the Black Glove, but we actually got to see Batman fight them, as opposed to them all being killed before Bruce looses his mind and then have Bruce fight some nobody who came out of nowhere.
Even beyond that, the Black Glove just made a ton more sense in how they operated and how they never made contact with Batman before. The Owls were just a vague council of vagueness that was simultaneously omnipresent and absurdly hypercompetent in their backstory but also totally stupid when it came to actually doing anything.
>>83217548
How can you assure me of something when you have no idea what my history is, you silly neckbeard?
>>83215216
So any white man with a buzz cut is a neo-nazi now? Holy shit that't every white man in the army basic training.
>>83218673
>Superman needs stronger villains and a more flexible setting for his alter ego
Personally I love when Superman IS HAVING FUN with his powers doing crazy and funny things, because it's something I find incredibly human. Like when he builded a scale model 1: 1 of the Titanic and used it as location for a dinner with Lois.
Or pic related.
Nu52 was deadly serious, almost melancholy.
>>83221138
>lmao at all the people that are dying right now and that I can hear even through space
>>83221138
the best superman stories imho are when he doesn't have clear enemies, or when his enemies aren't about punching him, but when the problem is moral and superman has to either question his own philosophy or convince the world that he is morally superior.
i also love it when superman isn't about saving people all the time from everything. i'd love to see a kind yet slightly more nihilistic superman that doesn't necessarily run to every fire or car crash and only really shows up when whole nations need inspiration or when the earth is under supernatural threat.
>>83221138
Always wondered. Can he breathe in space or he can hold his breath for long?
>>83221138
>>83221173
Go read Superman vol 3 39.
>>83221277
Some versions of Superman can, other versions can't.
>>83219886
Don't speak to me ever again, you filthy casual.
>>83221277
At the beginning of the Post crisis he could not do it. His powers have grown a lot from Man of Steel to the 2000s days. During that time he had learned to breathe in space ( from Mongul)
>>83221630
One of the best Superman stories ever. Superman in Warworld.
>>83217868
>there are people that truly believe this
Holy fuck.
>>83212641
They ruined it entirely with the whole lois selling out his identity thing.
There wasn't any fixing it from that point, then we got depowered superman in a t shirt on a motocycle.
>>83217185
Quite frankly, if you didn't read Superman: Truth because of the promo art, you're a retard.
>>83221978
>then we got depowered superman in a t shirt on a motocycle.
>implying there is anything wrong with this
>>83218673
If you remove the human aspect of superman you pretty much get rid of his entire character.
That's why we have metropolis, lois, and his human life.
It's not Bill's monologue on superman. That's the most wrong shit ever said about the character.
>>83222033
Aside from it sucking and lasting too long?
>>83212641
>he actually got some great stories:
>Morrison Action Comics
>Johns' Men of Tomorrow
>Superman Unchained
>Paktion Comics (especially the first arc. It wavered after that, but was still good)
>blatantly lying on the internet
wew lad
>>83221986
That's not a good excuse. Isn't that what advertisements and hype are supposed to do? Sell the product? I mean I read Truth and it was ok and have no problem with Superman's t-shirt look (it's a better look than the New 52 armor any day), but I could see why someone would stay away if they felt that it's a take on Superman they're not interested in (after being burned out by Man of Steel or Injustice or whatever).
>>83212641
>So why did people hate New52 Superman so much?
Only the faggots who didn't read the comics hated it cause they only saw the covers and went like "not muh Superman".
They were trying t just shake things up for a while by doing anything they could think of and none of it panned out.
>Let's give him a new power!
>Went nowhere
>Let's have lois out him as clark kent!
>Sucked
>Let's depower him!
>Sucked
Like most things, DC didn't have a plan.
>>83222177
Forgot the Wonder Woman romance deal that nobody wanted.
>>83212641
I own Deathstroke's New 52 run. It's basically this: run into every DC character, fight every DC character, kill a Titan, save your kids.
I'm not complaining.
>>83222052
That's why I like the fact that Pre-Flash Clark is now a father, after the marriage this is perhaps another piece of growth for him.
What about Max Landis' Superman? Was he out of any other canon like Earth One's Superman?
>>83221630
how the fuck would it be possible to breathe in space when that shit is a vacuum? I'm more content with my headcannon that he doesn't need to breathe in space or underwater
>>83221274
>the best superman stories imho are when he doesn't have clear enemies, or when his enemies aren't about punching him, but when the problem is moral and superman has to either question his own philosophy or convince the world that he is morally superior.
I used to think like that, but the more I think about it nowadays the more it seems like these sort of stories just lead to him kind of impotently moping around. Frankly, I can't really think of too many good stories with that sort of premise.
I'm partial to Grant Morrison's philosophy on writing Superman nowadays, which is that you put him in completely ordinary situations except adjusted for the scale of his power. So he's walking his dog, but he's doing it on Venus. He needs to woo his girlfriend, and to do that he needs to rescue her from the emperor of Andromeda. His neighbors need help with a problem, except the neighbors are Martians and the problem is Starro. He's just this perfectly regular guy on an unbelievably grand scale who will go fight Darkseid for the future of mankind one day and then sit at his desk at the planet writing an article the next because in his eyes one is just as ordinary as the other.
>>83222856
all the stuff you mention is fine, they're entertaining the way comic books want to entertain, but i think when a more philosophical, abstract problem arises if written well superman stories can be masterpieces (like all-star superman for example)
you're right that there aren't that many variations you can build on the idea, but superman is amazing for promoting comic book tier lawfulness and also for the conflict between the ideal ubermensch vs. the practical man.
idk, i always feel like superman's potential is wasted in glorious boxing matches, even though i enjoy pretty much everything with supes.
>>83222890
That's funny because I see All-Star as a triumphant example of the "Grand Scale" idea of writing. Because at the end of the day it's about a guy who knows he's going to die and is just crossing things off from his bucket list. Things that involve a date on the Moon, escape from Bizzaro world, going back in time to see his dad and giving Luthor an epiphany.
A well written Superman story can and should be both, but I feel like for a number of years now he's been neither. Most high profile stories were just trying to seem important by reinventing his place in the world or doing something "NEW" with him that they forgot to actually do what works.
>>83223177
yeah, i get that. my point about all-star was mostly about the epiphany, because i see the luthor vs. superman conflict as ideal vs real, but all the stuff you said holds too.
>A well written Superman story can and should be both, but I feel like for a number of years now he's been neither. Most high profile stories were just trying to seem important by reinventing his place in the world or doing something "NEW" with him that they forgot to actually do what works.
pretty much that, yeah. #makesupermansuperagain
>>83214368
Did you suffer a brain injury? Why is your grammar screwed to hell.
>>83223736
>Finishes his question with a full stop
>>83221274
>i'd love to see a kind yet slightly more nihilistic superman that doesn't necessarily run to every fire or car crash and only really shows up when whole nations need inspiration or when the earth is under supernatural threat.
You stay the hell away from the character.
>>83223736
Because people come here from the wildest places on Earth, newfag.
>>83223177
>>83223285
I don't believe that you've read Pak's run if you don't think shit like the Subterranian world or the fear monsters in Smallville were'nt these types of storytelling. Nor Morrison's action, the motherfucker who wrote all-star
I fucking hate you casuals who have read a few AU books and then hate that mainstream Superman (one of the most popular DC characters whose legacy carries several titles) gets caught up in shared universe stuff
![4573090-7052117470-19869[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/d4W5N6L.png "4573090-7052117470-19869[1].png")
>>83224283
but he already is sort of like that. he maintains a personal life and spends time on it, wasting time that could be spent saving lives. he only saves cats from trees or people from car accidents when he feels like it. what's his justification for choosing who to save from which accident? if he could save people from fires, why didn't he save john doe from that one fire that one time?
the point is, him working pr feels less inspirational and more marketing sometimes, even though i know it's meant to be kind and good and pure. these questions are rarely brought up and almost never properly answered.
pic related, what i mostly want from superman.
>>83224413
who said I hated the mainstream superman? I just like certain type of superman stories better than others, and these stories aren't often in the mainstream superman (observe how I said often, as in they can occasionally appear)
superman in all shapes and forms is one of my favorite super heroes.
chill out you fuck.
>>83224413
noticing general trends doesn't mean we don't acknowledge exceptions you sperg.
For what it's worth you're right though, I haven't read Pak's run.
I'm surprised Superbro would even want to come back given the shitty life he's had.
>>83213948
>In most pre and post-crisis stories, his character was always "morally perfect, endlessly-compassionate god who is loved by everyone"
And that's fine it's superman
>>83214450
>Dc readers are experiencing now the marvel saga of Clone wars twenty years late.
Ahhhhhhhhh
>>83213083
>Shazam
He's Captain Marvel now.
>>83225514
That happens when you have Harras running the publishing side into the ground.
>>83217245
Promo art is meant to be what makes somebody read something.
>>83214790
None of those needed a reboot though, you could have told the same stories in the Pre-Flashpoint world and they would have been the same story but with the impact of DC's legacy
>>83217142
>the Court of Owls is the greatest addition to his gallery of villains in a long time.
Court of Owls was literally just a repainted Black Glove
>>83225562
Woah, really?
>>83213977
>nu52 Supes is Superboy Prime
So it was true
>>83213977
How is Kal-L not a true Superman. He is more the true Superman than any Superman.
>>83212641
I don't hate him at all. I'm actually going to drop all new old superman comics. I might read super sons though
