Look what shitty edgyness Alan Moore forced Geoff Johns write.
Damn you, Alan Moore! Why must you make Geooff Johns and DC write edgy and shitty stories!
Stop using your wizard magic on them!!!
>still thinking Johns is blaming Moore and not creators (including himself) that took the wrong lessons from Watchmen
He literally confirmed this in interviews already
I don't think Johns is blaming Alan Moore. I think he's blaming everyone who thought Moore's take on superheroes was the only correct one.
Manhattan represents Johns, not Moore. He's the penitent sinner, which is why Manhattan is an antagonist, not a villain.
>>83186725
>It doesn't mean that every character is going to be optimistic or have the same attitude because that'd be boring. But it does mean that there'll be a pervasive attitude in DC of belief — not only belief in yourself, but in what you're doing — and celebration, a tone of celebration. It doesn't mean there aren't going to be threats, or that we're going backwards or being regressive, but it does mean that the pervasive attitude in the DNA of DC is optimism. Which I firmly believe.
>>83186725
I'm confused. What's Moore have to do with this?
>>83186814
Not exactly, >>83186811 got it right. That's explicitely what Johns has been saying since the spoilers leaked.
>>83186909
Basically nothing (unless you want to get into a creators' rights discussion about the Watchmen contract) and the sooner people understand that the better off Rebirth discussion will be.
>>83186725
He literally only put in Watchmen because he knows that Batman holding the comedians badge will generate headlines and get people reading.
If he was more interested in making a point about the corruption of the industry he would use The Dark Knight Returns because its more accurate and more feasible.
If he wanted to make a respectful point about the influence of Watchmen he would use the Pax Americana world as analogues, or the Charlston comics characters in mainline DC just like any non-hack writer has done.
>>83186786
The point is that Geoff has no place making this commentary
>(including himself)
Guess fucking what, he could've written a decent comic instead of continuing his edgy ass fanfics-but-now-with-some-metacommentary!
>>83187134
This is some next level asspain
>Geoff: We're going to be optimistic from now on guys i swear!
>Kills Owlman, Metron, Pandora and Superwoman.
>>83187659
Every decision we make is meaningless because eventually, after the next reboot, we have already made the opposite choice. We're nothing. Less than nothing.
>mfw it doesn't matter
>>83186857
>but it does mean that the pervasive attitude in the DNA of DC is optimism. Which I firmly believe.
DC was born from an exploding planet, a race dying, and a brutal murder in front of the eyes of a 7 year old that wanted to look like a demon to fight criminals
>>83187112
There's no character in tdkr universe with the power to alter reality and the charlton characters don't have an impact as big.
>>83187112
>He literally only put in Watchmen because he knows that Batman holding the comedians badge will generate headlines and get people reading.
Just to be cucked by Captain America is a Nazi headlines
>>83187112
>If he wanted to make a respectful point about the influence of Watchmen he would use the Pax Americana world as analogues, or the Charlston comics characters in mainline DC just like any non-hack writer has done.
I agree, but johns has never been respectful of anyone
>>83187659
And Ultraman before that. He literally took his toys and run to home so no one else can use them in a way he doesnt want.
Just like he did with Aqualad, and how he took Shazam/captain marvel as a hostage for 4 fucking years.
>>83187883
Or a couple of jewish boys who created something that they could look up to.
>>83186725
I liked naked Grail with naked baby darkseid who looks like a midget.
>wonder woman now has a brother
just fuck my shit up
>>83187934
>There's no character in tdkr universe with the power to alter reality
Neither in the watchmen universe
>and the charlton characters don't have an impact as big.
So you are saying Johns cares more about the sales than the story? I agree
>>83187995
>Or a couple of jewish boys who created something that they could look up to.
More like a couple jewish boys wanting a quick buck. Jewish kids look up at Bankers.
>>83188016
Unexplained nakedness is best nakedness I guess?
Maybe Grail's mother raised her that way since she says she's following her example.
>>83187995
And what they looked up to was a man who could tear down a corrupt system.
>>83188089
I did not post it since it may get you banned. Chances are darkseid will still have his memories and her mothers method did fail.
>>83188017
>he did for sales!
Or emotional resonance.
>>83188089
>needing a reason to be naked
I'm sorry your parents taught you to be ashamed of your body.
>>83186725
Yes because Marvel has never brutally murdered anybody ever
>>83188017
I never said anything even remotely close to that. Of course Johns cares about sales, dc is a company. But he's also a massive fan of the dc universe and has a clear affection for several characters. He already explained hi line of thinking for the metaphorical relevance of the character, and it seems pretty reasonable. The arguments against it pretty much boil down to "why not use x character". Why would he?
>>83187400
What the fuck is supposed to be going on in that GIF.
>>83188440
>But he's also a massive fan of the dc universe and has a clear affection for several characters. He already explained hi line of thinking for the metaphorical relevance of the character
I actually don't care about what he SAYS. for years he has proven himself nothing but a liar.
>>83188878
>still mad about your waifu dying
Jesus kid, just let it go.
>>83187134
You are the type that makes comic fans look fucking patethic.
>>83187934
so again what is wrong with Pax Americana apart from the fact that it might generate less headlines?
>>83188878
I actually hated her a lot so this page don't bother me (well except for the fact that i have a giantess fetish and that this page is like gay porn to me but other than that it's good)
>>83186725
People, this is the same faggot that made another thread about Alan Moore and Watchmen. Either he's just incredibly butthurt or he's a troll.
Fucking ignore both threads.
>>83189132
or he's alan moore himself.
>>83188878
What is that supposed to prove? That Lex Luthor is evil? that he would kill people who wronged him? Come on now.
>>83189042
Pax Americana wasn't an important influence on the tonal shift of several comics for the last 3 decades. It was just a well crafted story based on another well crafted story that could be apreciated by those who knew about his existance but didn't leave a mark in the medium.
>>83189276
That's the leader of Johns's Justice League ;)
Let's see what Johns did to Superboy prime?
Remember him? he came from a time before watchmen. let see how johns treated the poor lad.
>>83189356
So it only works if isnt Subtle?
>>83189462
It works better if it fits thematically.
>>83186909
Watchmen characters were used int Rebirth
so now everybody thinks Moore is pissed off (he doesn't give a shit) and fanboys are being their usual retarded selves
>>83187134
>Guess fucking what, he could've written a decent comic instead of continuing his edgy ass fanfics-but-now-with-some-metacommentary!
Yeah, Johns is the absolute master of hypocritical metacommentary.
Like anyone remember Blackest Night? That came from the same guy murdered like half of DCU from Infinite Crisis to BN, and then brought all the ones he actually liked back. And then he took a big steaming dump on his "no more resurrections" pledge the minute it was convenient.
At least when Morrison does metacommentary he does actually practice what he preaches. For the most part.
>>83189675
>so now everybody thinks Moore is pissed off
Johns already was cursed by moore when Blackest night was announced. Moore was really pissed, and Morrison had to protect him on interviews.
Blackest night and everything Johns has done ever since was shit so Moore won
>>83186725
Here we are again, conflating the actions of VILLAIN characters with a sentiment that HEROES have gotten too edgy.
>>83189822
>Like anyone remember Blackest Night? That came from the same guy murdered like half of DCU from Infinite Crisis to BN, and then brought all the ones he actually liked back. And then he took a big steaming dump on his "no more resurrections" pledge the minute it was convenient.
This is what pisses me the most, he is right any writter cna work with any charACTER, but then he blocks other writters from using the characters only he wants to work with, the whole Shazam embargo was painful
>>83189462
Stand-ins carry no emotional weight.
It's the reason that all of Morrison's stories where Mandrakk or the Gentry are a metaphor for editorial interference in the comic book industry don't strike a chord with any of the readers except for the hypercrisis fags here at /co/
>>83188878
But that's not edgy! That's metacommentary on something!
Just like Mirror Master being a drug addict
Also excuse me I have to watch Flash and parrot the "JSA IS GREAT!" meme
>>83189927
Johns turned Black Adam, Sinestro, Lex and Cold into "heroes" and Superboy into a villian.
Geoff Johns once barged into my house, strangled my wife and said "Alan Moore forced me to do this, he has to be stopped!". He then jumped out of the window into the night.
>>83188089
How does Grail's breast milk taste like? I can imagine it tastes like anti-life.
>>83190057
He made all of them sexy too. If Johns ever comes out as bi I won't be surprised.
>>83188329
That was a legit moment senpai
>>83190022
It's not edgy though, edgy would be putting her in an ant farm and having her getting eaten alive.
>>83190330
sexy anti-monitor too, but you can't blame Moore on that
>>83190057
They're not heroes. Antiheroes like the Punisher at best.
And it was a shitty alternate universe Superboy.
>>83190585
Moore SHOULD have started a sexy male villain trend. Shame on him.
Also Brainiac. Geoff sure has a type.
>>83189895
>Moore was really pissed
Don't tell lies.
So NU52 is considered to be "Moore inspired"
But considering when Watchmen was released should most post-Crisis DC be considered "Moore inspired" too?
>>83191126
Yes rebirth says that much, that Manhattan's influence started earlier than the new 52 itself.
>>83190865
You are a fucking idiot, this is why everyone hates Johnsfags
>I was noticing that DC seems to have based one of its latest crossovers in Green Lantern based on a couple of eight-page stories that I did 25 or 30 years ago. I would have thought that would seem kind of desperate and humiliating, When I have said in interviews that it doesn’t look like the American comic book industry has had an idea of its own in the past 20 or 30 years, I was just being mean. I didn’t expect the companies concerned to more or less say, “Yeah, he’s right. Let’s see if we can find another one of his stories from 30 years ago to turn into some spectacular saga.”
>>83191195
>Manhattan's influence started earlier than the new 52 itself.
Where did you pick that up?
>>83191251
that doesn't sound pissed at all as if he's offended or anything
>>83190057
>>83190652
Sinestro is a "tragic" villain (y'know, like Magneto is supposed to be). Even when he's doing good guy shit, it's always a "united against a common foe" situation and as soon as things go back to normal, because he's still someone who's broken inside and believes in a malevolent philosophy, he'll inevitably return to indiscriminate killing and oppression.
Cold is just mercenary, he doesn't care about good or bad, he just wants to take the route of making the most money for the least trouble. That's why the Rogues aren't supposed to kill, not because it's wrong, but because it brings heat down on 'em.
Lex is supposed to be a case of "wasted potential", his story is about the tragedy of what a boon to the world he COULD be if he weren't selfish. But he IS selfish. Even when he's helping people, he's doing it for himself.
Conversely, a REAL superhero is supposed to be a person who acts selflessly, protects all life, serves as an inspiration to others, and believes in hope.
So yeah, Black Adam can engage in blood and gore and he's doing what his character is DESIGNED to do. But if Bruce Wayne or Barry Allen or Hal Jordan were to do a Mortal Kombat Fatality, he's going AGAINST what he was created to be.
And that's where the Watchmen thing is to blame, because Watchmen was all about cynically going "what kind of person would go "the cops aren't doing their jobs right, I'll do it myself" while dressing up in a costume? Why, they must be some kind of fascist AND have weird sex fetishes!"
Watchmen never made ANY claims at all about villains, the only traditional supervillain who's even IN the story is that Moloch the Magician character and he's a retired Golden Age bank robber. It's all about tearing down the concept of a hero.
>>83191279
it's snarky as fuck
>>83191270
last panel
>>83190057
They're anti-villains at best
Deadpool, Venom, Magneto are straight up heroes
>>83191297
snarky isn't pissed, don't make it as if he went on a huge rant or something when he didn't
>>83191251
>I increasingly get a sense of the comics industry going through my trashcan like raccoons in the dead of the night… That’s a good image, isn’t it? They weren’t even particularly good ideas.
>We are seeing the death of comics publishing as we know it.
>Pick up those ideas and do something new with them. Make them shine again. But, I think that it’s been a long time since the comics industry had any talent that was capable of doing that.
Moore was talking about how big of a hack Johns is 7 years ago.
>>83191349
>Magneto
That's Claremont-wank bullshit.
The whole point of Magneto is that he's just as bad about humans as the Nazis were to him and can't help it.
>>83191325
I thought that was The Empty Hand when I first saw it, still not 100% convinced it's Dr Manhattan
>>83191353
It depends on your personality
Certain people will never get pissed/go on rants, they're just get more passive aggressive/snarky
>>83191379
I was thinking more about that 5+ year period he was a member of the X-men
>>83188329
unironically mentioning the edgy universe
>>83191379
ok morrison
>>83191400
Manhattan and the Empty Hand could be working together or against each other, or the same being for all we fucking know, all are valid theories at this point.
>>83191435
Yeah, that was a dumb period. X-Men continuity is riddled with them constantly forgiving and hanging out with a literal terrorist leader just because he and Chuck are nostalgic for the halcyon days of their young bromance.
>>83191379
when has the real magneto put humans into death camps?
>>83191662
Before Marvel pussied out and retconned it
That's why Morrison or any other good writer will never work for Marvel again
>>83191719
so basically only one writer's version?
>>83191762
He hasn't all that often had the opportunity, it's not like he's ever been in control of a place that wasn't Mutants-Only outside of Morrison letting him briefly conquer NYC.
Regardless, this is the motherfucker whose FIRST APPEARANCE was trying to steal a nuclear missile so he could bomb the dirty flatscans.
>>83187400
>>83188958
why do people get this assravaged about people saying things that are unarguably correct?
are they just huge johnsfags?
>>83188948
THAT EDGE
>>83186725
Alan Moore had nothing to do with it.
Geoff Johns has been dead for nearly ten years. DC is being run by Skrulls sent by Stan Lee.
Not just DC, but the WB executives running the DC movies, also. Johns, Morrison, Snyder, Nolan, even Ryan Reynolds and Ben Affleck.
They're failing ON PURPOSE to ensure the superiority of the Marvel IP's.
>>83186811
if he were doing that, then instead of talking about moore, he'd say
"I, geoff johns, am a shit writer, and i'm going to stop writing, and let some people who aren't shit do the writing instead"
>>83191958
Then why are DC's IPs still better than Marvel's?
>>83188064
>wanting a quick buck
siegel and schuster, those wily conniving shysters who picked the white man's pocket
when will /pol/ work out that its memes don't work on /co/?
>>83191958
If that were true, then why were Johns' JSA, Flash, Green Lantern, and Action Comics better than anything Marvel published at the same time?
>>83186857
it literally doesn't mean anything because it's going to be the same shit written by the same shitheads
>>83191846
He was trying to take over the base, where did he say he wanted to wipe out all of the humans?
And since you're talking about old issues from the Silver Age, he conquered a South American island in #4 and didn't start herding humans into crematoriums there.
>>83192068
because you're an embarrassing johnsfag
>>83192068
Because the ideas were coming from STAN LEE.
>>83192112
Why the fuck would you want a missile base if not to use the missile?
Lots of actual Nazis moved to South America and I don't recall hearing about them opening new concentration camps there either...but maybe I'm wrong, I'm not great at history.
>>83192117
Boy, you sure convinced me that I'm wrong for loving all those books I love.
>>83192190
To use them to threaten the humans to let him take over, like he did in #150?
And you said "it's not like he's ever been in control of a place that wasn't Mutants-Only outside of Morrison letting him briefly conquer NYC." I gave you another example where he didn't kill any humans.
OP, you are seriously retarded
>>83192227
I don't know what you're arguing for here, Magneto being a racist, violent terrorist cult leader is indisputable with 50 years of continuity behind it. Just because normally he's more restrained and only one writer out of a couple dozen had him go all the way Nazi doesn't mean his psychological motivation is any less comparable to the 3rd Reich's.
>>83192443
>50 years of continuity behind it.
more like 40
they did a 180 after Morrison and they're not going back
>>83192443
"Hitler's power used constitutional power to oppress minorities. Magneto is a political subversive fighting for freedom. The rhetoric might be similar but their beliefs are not."
>>83192443
Go to bed, Morrison.
>>83192688
Megneto's not fighting for freedom, he's fighting for supremacy and you know it.
>>83193281
Sorry I didn't come prepared with scans, but we both know he's said otherwise on multiple occasions.
>>83194116
Believing mutants are superior and should rule the world is one thing. Wanting to commit genocide is another.
>>83194230
Maybe don't make your name trying to co-opt nukes or killing large numbers of people if you don't want folks to think you're out to kill everybody.
Like, I can't count the number of times I've seen a writer do the same stereotypical scene of "Mutant discovers his powers in some backwoods redneck town, almost gets jumped, somehow Magneto magically shows up to save him by vengefully murdering the entire group of hicks like it ain't no thing and then tells him what a special snowflake he is and how he should join the Brotherhood"
>>83194116
Yeah lots of people lie, even to themselves.
>>83194371
Killing anti-mutant rednecks ≠ human genocide
>>83194477
So killing people that thinks different is ok?
>>83194514
>>83191251
>>83191377
Coming up with an idea and bringing it nowhere is a waste. Long living universes like DC or Marvel work should take advantage of their huge continuity. Morrison's answer to this idiotic claim is spot on.
>>83195537
God are Johnsfags so deluded?
>>83186725
>Still this assmad about Batman: Earth One
You're just going to have to deal with the fact that a lot of people love Geoff Johns man
>>83189421
Somebody have this in better resolution?
