Why doesn't he just kill everyone in DC?
>>83184067
We still don't know what Manhattan's plan is.
Why doesn't the comedian just rape sally?
>>83184209
He can't rape her if she wants it.
so 15 minutes
What is the prevailing theory about what is going on? Where is Doc Manhattan relative to the DCU? He appears to be outside of spacetime if he could steal time from another universe.
because he created everyone in DC
>>83184309
Its all very meta. Manhattan is a representation of Moore, who kick started the "dark" age of serious comics. Johns is saying that this infection needs to be removed and we need to move back towards light heartedness and heroism. Manhattan probably was just trying to make the heroes more serious and focused without relationships cause he thinks it is hindering them.
>>83184377
>Manhattan is a representation of Moore
Less Moore himself and more just a personification of Watchmen's influence. Johns' interviews don't seem to point at Watchmen the story as flawed.
>>83184413
This. Manhattan is representative of the 'dark age' of comic books kicked off by Moore (and Miller).
>>83184377
>Its all very meta. Manhattan is a representation of Moore
Stop parroting that one reviewer who passively-aggressively hates Watchmen and wrongfully thinks that the book itself is at fault for weak writers trying their hand at "grimdark".
>>83184377
>>83184413
Why did they need Manhattan himself to get the message across rather than using OCs like, say, Waid and Morrison did before?
>>83184413
Everyone is going insane because Johns is fucking with Watchmen but what he is actually fucking with is the Watchmen movie, that is the reason why Snyder has been given so much power in the cinematic universe.
The comicbook from Moore has already been fucked with when they started doing prequels, at least Rebirth is not using them in a meaningless way.
>>83184555
Because people are more likely to buy it if it has Watchmen shit in it.
>>83184309
I think he's still "near" the multiverse -- just in a position similar to Brainiac during Convergence. Outside of it all, watching it all.
As for theory:
I think (or, rather, I hope) that it's not so much about Manhattan being a bad guy -- rather, it's more about his point-of-view of the world and that it shouldn't be what the DC Universe represents. Manhattan comes from a much more serious and dark universe, and I think his tinkering with the DCU was the result of asking "how would actual superheroes be affected by inhabiting a naturally darker, lonelier world?"
At the very least, I hope there isn't some stupid "[team x] vs Doctor Manhattan!" or "Justice League vs Watchmen!" type of shit.
As of now, I can't imagine Moore would be too pissed at the concept. It's very in-line with Doc Manhattan and the Watchmen in general. I just hope they don't go for kiddie stuff but keep things philosophically interesting.
>>83184555
>Why did they need Manhattan himself to get the message across rather than using OCs
Because that's kind of the point of Rebirth? Using anything and everything in DC's past, not just the bullet points.
Plus, from a business perspective, it's smart as hell. It's not simply a matter of "people will buy Watchmen stuff." Rather, if you think of the Rebirth issue as an advertisement for DC material -- future AND past -- then there's no better way of starting this relaunch than saying, "Hey, go read one of the most acclaimed comics ever written!" And it works even better because it's not such an obvious cashgrab, but seems to be more honoring and intelligently utilizing these characters.
>>83184715
>As of now, I can't imagine Moore would be too pissed at the concept.
He most likely is pissed.
>>83184067
Too busy brooding.
>>83184377
You give Johns too much credit.
>>83184815
>And it works even better because it's not such an obvious cashgrab
>>83184843
He's more likely disappointed
>>83184843
As someone's been saying in these threads, Moore's already worked out all of his feelings over people messing with his characters/stories. Now the only reason he cares is when it causes people to bother him. Which people probably will over this asking him dumb "What do you think of Watchmen being canon?!" type questions despite any idiot being able to figure out how he feels from reading any interview he's done in the last like decade.
>>83184551
No one is parroting anything you stupid fuck it was 5th grade level reading comprehension to understand this.
>>83184715
>I can't imagine Moore would be too pissed at the concept
>Creates characters with a precise purpose for a precise kind of story
>Gets promised those characters won't be jewed out of his hands
>Characters get jewed out of his hands
>Characters start getting used in lackluster movies and prequels for years, the purpose has long been lost
>"Oh, this time it's *metatextual* tho, it's ok"
>>83185051
It is okay. It in no way affects Watchmen as a self contained story. You are just autistic as fuck mate.
>>83185051
Moore is far up his own ass, he deserves it at this point.
>>83184067
He can see the future, so he knows the Flash would just dump him in the speed force if he tried.
>>83185051
The only reason he created those characters was because DC thought the story was too edgy for the use of the actual Charlton versions.
>>83185130
If new, bad stories are ok since they don't affect the good stuff, old or new, why did the New52 need to be fixed so badly? Why was the fan's first reaction to Rebirth "finally X isn't ruined anymore", while at the same time they also claim people have no reason to be mad at Watchmen's canonization?
>>83185274
Watchmen has always been canon in the bleed. It was published by DC.
>>83185274G
Because 1 of the 2 had an end.
Watchmen is an autoconclusive graphic novel and it can't be ruined by a sequel because you can just think about the sequel as an elseworld.
The entire DC universe is a completely different thing that we have grown with, you can't just make it progressively worse and expect people to be okay with it.
>>83185623
>>83185130
Whenever I hear this argument, I just think of a battered house wife.
This would never work anywhere else but comics.
>>83185825
That isn't true and you know it
>>83185835
But it is, maybe it'd work in shitty tv shows.
>Ayy just start at season 3
>>83184377
Johns isnt that smart.
>>83184377
Johns isnt that smart.
>>83185045
The thing is, Johns doesnt have 5th grade reading comprehension, he is the guy that gaves us Superboy prime.
>>83185623
He could have used the Earth 4 characters, but no, Johns knew he could make the jews happy, he only cares about comics being sold
>>83186072
Johns flat out said that's what he's doing
>>83185567
DC was meant to give up the rights to Moore and Gibbons after publishing it. But instead they found a way to keep it (reprinting it costantly)
If anyone respectable already considered Watchmen part of DC's canon, what was the point of pic related?
>>83186149
Morrison wanted to write a better Watchmen with Charlton characters.
>>83184555
I would have liked it if they used the gentry as the villains of the story (t woud have made sense, plus classic Manhattan is nowhere near as powerful to pose a genuine threat to the multiverse). But Johns reasoning seems pretty solid. It was something among the lines of "the dcu confronting the legacy of watchmen the same way watchmen confronted the legacy of the dcu 30 years ago". Plus since watchmen was a deconstruction of the genre and Rebirth is a rebuilding of it, it really makes sense thematically
>>83184877
That interpretation isn't fully accurate but Johns made similar metacommentary in recent interviews . Credit where credit is due.
>>83185274
that is completely different, people now are bitching because they don't want a sequel to a graphic novel when they could just NOT READ IT and it wouldn't change anything for them, people where bitching about the new 52 because DC stopped giving them what they liked and started giving them shitty copies of what they already had.
Watchmen fanboys are sad because they are getting more of something they liked that they didn't want like spoiled kids, New 52 haters were like kids that already had what they wanted and started crying because DC took back the good toys and gave them cheep chinese knock offs
>>83184926
Everything is a cashgrab. But it's more satisfying to pay for the ones with meaning.
>>83184815
>"Hey, go read one of the most acclaimed comics ever written!" And it works even better because it's not such an obvious cashgrab, but seems to be more honoring and intelligently utilizing these characters.
Johnsfags like you don't know what "intelligent" means
>>83186221
And there was no reason why not use those characters.
>>83186119
>nobody gives a shit about earth 4 characters
>the message wouldn't make sense/wouldn't be as obvious
>Watchman already is a DC propriety and this is the least offensive use they could have for the characters
>the whole leave it alone it's perfect like it is already isn't relevant anymore because they already fucked up with that in before watchmen
>>83186515
why use the chink's knock-off when you own the originals?
(also they are part of the new 52 universe while the watchmen reality is outside and it makes much more sense if it is an outsider that did all that shit.)
>>83186515
>the point
>your head
See >>83186311
>>83185967
That's not comparable at all. It's more like "Just watch Alien, the sequels are all made by other people and aren't as good"
>>83186522
>>nobody gives a shit about earth 4 characters
And that means you could had have the same story without feeling like the story is a cashgrab to gain attention from the casuals
>>the message wouldn't make sense/wouldn't be as obvious
The message doesnt make sense anyway, Johns is the guy that gave use Superboy Prime, Killed Golden age Superman, Made REFORMED Black Adam into a genocidal, Put lex Luthor on the league, was literally stepping on women during Forevel Evil, gave us Blackest Night were people were being eaten alive. How can i take the guy seriously? He is blamming others for the shit he did, the difference is that Watchmen never did that for shock value. And How is a bad thing to be less "obvious"? in what world being subtle is a bad thing?
>>Watchman already is a DC propriety and this is the least offensive use they could have for the characters
Earth 4 is already propiety of DC, and the way Multiversity ended you could actually tie That issue with this. But obviously, hoping Johns will care about Morrison is too much to ask
>>the whole leave it alone it's perfect like it is already isn't relevant anymore because they already fucked up with that in before watchmen
So if you stab a child is ok to rape it? Before Watchmen was terrible, this is even worst, especially since Johns will be a coward and play safe so no blue Dong.
>>83186119
I think it works.better with Manhatten as opposed to an analog
>>83186346
The meaning is lost if the current atmosphere doesn't call for it, edgy comics are definetly not as pervasive as in the '90s or bits of the 2000s. On the contrary, how often stories are being criticized for being too safe, wether they're part of Marvel's line of "girl friendly" comics or DC writing a "Death of the family" story were it was all just a prank from Joker and no one was really hurt? And it only feels like hypocrisy when DC is still, and will continue, to publish books that dwell in the same tone that Rebirth is supposedly criticizing
>>83185051
>Characters get jewed out of his hands
He signed a contract, you dumb cuck. He wasn't some uneducated Jewish kid like Siegel or Shuster, he was a grown man who had been in the business for years.
>>83186847
it's not only about comics
>>83184636
>>83186891
>Watchmen is ours for as long as we print it, after that the rights and profits of the characters and merchandise are all yours
>Holy shit, the book is a huge success, we'll have to costantly find a reason to reprint it! And in the meantime, let's start selling some t-shirts and posters along with it
>What's that? We said the you were going to have control over the merchandise? Oh, but this isn't merchandise, it's "promotional material" :^)
>What are you, some uneducated Jewish kid?
>>83184067
"A live body and a dead body contain the same number of particles. Structurally, there's no discernible difference. Life and death are unquantifiable abstracts. Why should I be concerned?"
>>83187103
reading fine print is important.
>>83187009
So, the comics don't need fixing in the first place, the movies CAN'T get fixing because WB and Snyder will keep being retards and if anything they'll start coming up with ideas for a Watchmen sequel and a Justice League crossover... what's the point again?
Oh, that's right
>>83187103
>Let me sign this contract without reading it
>Oh no, I was had!
You are a genius
>>83186847
The problem is that is the very same writter that gave us gemes like this.
There's nothing wrong with darkness and bad shit in comics if they make sense, with johns Violence and gore have been always just for shock value, so him being critical of Watchmen is just worthless.
Geoff Johns' thinking was likely something along the lines of "he's in the WATCHmen he likes WATCHES so he will steal some TIME"
>>83187171
>>83187270
>The Company can do no wrong, don't criticize the Company, it's others' fault for not understanding the Company
Fucking groupies
>>83184636
The very same movies where that he promotes, and has helped to do? the smae ones where he was happy to take the tittle of producer? the same where he is the consultant? The ones HE put Cyborg on and was happy to tell everybody getting rid of Martian Manhunter was his idea?
His JL run was worst than BvS anyway.
>>83187402
>Guys, guys, obviously the Comedian's pin is only there because there's NO other way you'd understand what the story is referencing, it must be a NECESSARY hint!
>>83187418
You have brain problems
>>83187402
>Geoff Johns' thinking was likely something along the lines of "he's in the WATCHmen he likes WATCHES so he will steal some TIME"
I agree 100% with this, that's the kind of stuff Johns is likely to do, just like with his metro-batman thing.
Or superman "god of strenght"
>>83187555
>"he's in the WATCHmen he likes WATCHES so he will steal some TIME"
You forgot the Sad twist:
My father was a watch maker, he stopped making watches when i was 10, in my birthday, he was a sad man since he believed time wasnt worth it, those were then best 10 years of my life, i want to show him that time matters
:(
>>83184377
Well apparently anon people think you should write comics and are smarter than Johns
>>83187357
> missing the point of Prime entirely
> entirely
You can't be helped any more than you have been already
>>83188022
he's not wrong
>>83187215
>the movies CAN'T get fixing because WB and Snyder will keep being retards
And who is the DCEU's overseer again?
>>83188122
The same guy that oversaw Green Lantern and BvS
Why doesn't he just rape Dr. Manhattan?
>>83188063
Who, the anon? I was agreeing
