Can we all agree this was a failed experiment? No one but hardcore SJWs want this diversity crap. Most comic book readers are white males. They voted with their dollars and the buy comics with white protagonists in them. Old Man Logan out sells All New Wolverine by like 20k each issue. Asian Hulk, Black America, Minoriteam, and all the other diverse books are tanking. The only ones doing decent are Thor and Ms Marvel, and even Thor is sitting at 38k a month. I'm sure the real Thor making appearances helps.
>>83091834
>and even Thor is sitting at 38k a month
>acting like that's a bad number in this industry
lol
>>83091862
It took a nose dive in sales since issue 1.
>>83091929
>acting like that's a bad number in this industry
lol
>>83091834
I will be honest Cho Hulk is pretty fun, and there's hint that Banner will be back sooner or later.Though I probably like it because Greg Pak was writing Hulk and Frank Cho was doing the art
However I will not argue pushing the SJW agenda does not help the numbers, the proof seems to be in the sales
So... did Marvel announce anything today like the rumors said?
>>83091834
Miles book is doing better than most books
Ms Marvel is doing good
Thor is outselling every solo book that's not ASM
Black Panther is selling well
As is Chulk( Y'all seem to forget how bad Hulk books usually sell)
The only ones that are doing poor are shit like Red Wolf, Moon Girl & Devil Dinosaur and Spider-Woman
>>83091834
Question is, when will Marvel get it? Or how long until Ike takes a hike?
>>83091929
they all do
> it's pandering when it's not to my likes
This isn't DC, you'll do as you're told
>>83091929
>nose dive
>stating static numbers
ok
>>83091834
>even Thor is sitting at 38k a month
29 Mighty Thor 6 52,538
Because the white male lead books like
Hyperion
Carnage
Nova
Venom Spaceknight
Spidey
Ant-Man
are doing any better
>>83092774
I'll also add Hawkeye and teams like Web Warriors to this
>>83092774
Aren't hillbilly serial murderers from Brooklyn a minority?
>>83092774
Well yeah, every book does poorly if it's not a #1 or a popular franchise. Has nothing to do with content or quality and the sooner an idiot like OP figures it out the better off he'll be.
That it kept Marvel in the headlines means that they'll consider it a win regardless since it was always about attention whoring and never about diversity.
If people are curious here are last months numbers, don't know if these are exact or if they include online sales but still
http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2016/2016-04.html
>>83092809
Hawkeye's already cancelled although they've hinted at a Kate-centric relaunch, which will also probably not exceed 12 issues
>>83092878
>first non Batman book at around #50
Every time.
>>83092878
Those are sales only to comic book shops. Comixology does not publicly publish their data.
Here's month to month deterioration: http://www.comicsbeat.com/marvel-comics-month-to-month-sales-march-2016-spiders-dont-live-in-a-cesspool-but-in-dead-pools/
They haven't done April yet
>>83092878
>Dark Knight
>Batman
>Harley Quinn & Suicide Squad
>Batman TMNT
>Harley Quinn
>Harley Quinn and Harley Quinn
>Detective Comics
>Harley Quinn
Holy shit
>>83092969
I think that Comixology should be made to record it's numbers. I personally do think there is at least a decent chunk of sales coming from the digital market that may help numbers be better represented
>>83093015
yeah if it's a batbook it pretty much is almost guaranteed to be seller for DC. It's really kind of sad
>>83093015
>Harley Quinn and Harley Quinn
What even is this?
>>83093091
I think he meant Harley Quinn and her gang of Harleys
I can't stand any of the Harley Quinn titles though, they aren't funny and it isn't even Harley or at least the Harley I remember liking
>>83093091
Harley Quinn and her Gang of Harleys
>>83093031
Maybe but I see why they don't. Apparently it won't usually mean much in keeping a book alive anyway given how things get paid out to creators.
>>83093158
yeah I guess, I just find the online market could possibly be handled better. Especially considering it seems to be where single issue comics may ultimately need to move to and stick to collected for physical copies
>>83092505
And squirrel girl, and Spider-woman, and Howard, etc. Only a handful of titles are selling decently, the rest are reaching the cutoff lines at alarming rates.
>>83091834
>even Thor is sitting at 38k a month
What? The lowest its sold was 52,538.
I've never understood why people give fake numbers when you can just look up the real ones. What do you gain from lieing?
>>83093015
I can only guess that the only people buying these are autistic collectors who would buy anything as long as it's their favorite character, same goes to Thor and Spider-Man. Everything else that had sales were #1 issues.
>>83092900
>Kate-centric relaunch
No wtf
how else am I going to ship Clint and Kate together if Clint isn't gonna be in the book
>>83092878
>Moon Knight in the top 20
Feels good
>>83091834
Marvel was a mistake
-Jack Kirby
>>83093091
YO DAWG WE HEARD YOU LIKED HARLEY QUINN SO WE PUT A HARLEY IN YOUR HARLEY
>>83096872
>X-Men ranked below Rocketeer in terms of how well-known they are
kek
Stop posting troll threads that exist to do nothing more than bash comicbooks, badmouth the fans, and promote another unwelcomed asshole /pol/ conversation on the wrong board.
If you are arguing that it is a valid /co/ thread subject that you really really need to whine about how don't want to read some comics, then you shouldn't be on this board in the first place because you shouldn't be reading at all.
Didn't you know reading introduces new concepts and ideas? You can't complain about that when you read.
Grow the fuck up and shut up about your little neoNazi butthurt. We aren't going to burn our books at your rallies because you insist so much.
>>83093091
Harley Quinn has 6 (or more? fuck if I can remember) ethnically diverse psychos-in-training who act as her neighborhood watch. They have a book. Because that prints money, apparently.
>>83097143
>Stop posting troll threads that exist to do nothing more than bash comicbooks, badmouth the fans, and promote another unwelcomed asshole /pol/ conversation on the wrong board.
>If you are arguing that it is a valid /co/ thread subject that you really really need to whine about how don't want to read some comics, then you shouldn't be on this board in the first place because you shouldn't be reading at all.
>Didn't you know reading introduces new concepts and ideas? You can't complain about that when you read.
>Grow the fuck up and shut up about your little neoNazi butthurt. We aren't going to burn our books at your rallies because you insist so much.
Sorry friend. You dont get to dictate whats worthy of discussion.
Report the thread, hide it and move on. For your own sanity, as well as others.
>>83097188
>Harley Quinn has 6 (or more? fuck if I can remember) ethnically diverse psychos-in-training who act as her neighborhood watch.
This is the worst idea I've ever heard.
>>83091834
I honestly like the new take on the characters. Never gave a shit about Marvel until recently.
>>83092034
It's fucking nothing.
>>83092774
>Nova
>white male lead
>Hyperion
>#2 is below 20k
>>83092969
>They haven't done April yet
And ComicsBeat is late at that, especially Marvel. Also the author of the breakdowns of Marvel's monthly sales is French and not fluent in English, so expect typos.
>>83094604
Clint's off New Avengering with ewing.
He'll be fine.
>>83091834
>Most comic book readers are white males.
Not anymore. You can keep living in this fantasy bubble, but it's not true.
>there are people giving serious responses to this thread
Marvel's diversity means same old capeshit with minorities. Vision is something I'd call diversity, but shit like Thor feels the same old thing paraded in the name of diversity.
I refuse to read any DC until they make Wally white. Wasn't Rebirth suppose to go back to Pre-52 continuity? At least Marvel is making new characters instead of shittying on the OG characters by changing their race.
>>83100256
Have you been under a rock lately?
>>83100271
to a degree. explain?
>>83100288
In Rebirth one shot, Wally was shown to be suckered into Spped force. Now he's back, and black Wally was retconned to be a distant cousin of original Wally, just sharing the same name.
>>83091834
The New Avengers are the best yet. 10/10 team.
>>83095419
Wow, can you get any edgier?
>>83100319
Will we see more of White Wally or is Black Wally going to be shoved down my throat forever?
>>83100373
they're cousins named after the same Great Grandparent, Black Wally will be with the Teen Titans and Wallster will be with the Titans. They're blatantly ignoring the Wolfman Era because literally everyone is fucking tired of it.
>>83094520
The off chance that whoever sees the fake numbers will instantly believe it and not research.
It happens and succeeds more often than you think
>>83100443
So I have nothing to worry about? It's safe to go back and read DC?
>>83100485
well that depends, can you stand Brett Booth and Andrew Dahlhouse?
>>83092969
It's annoying with comiXology that tell you what won but not how much they won by
>>83100498
I'm fine with sitting through shitty comics as long as the characters aren't be fucked with.
>>83093145
That's the biggest problem with Harley
Honestly I like most of her shenanigans but she's meant to be a joker supporting character just make a new randumb psychopath for these story's.
>>83100485
As long as you don't read the rebirth special yes all signs indicate that most dc comics will be getting better after rebirth all the complaining is because of dc pulling there stupid attempts at trying to explain retcons in universe.
>>83100511
Well as long as your not a Superman reader your probably fine then
>>83091834
One thing people need to consider is that the sale numbers we get are NOT the real sales numbers, and it doesn't take digital sales into account.
>>83100482
I'm guilty of that, but at least not of closing the thread too soon
From what I understand, without the Star Wars comics and the constant #1 relaunches and variant covers, Marvel wouldn't be selling anywhere near what they are right now. They really under advertise the actually good books in favor of pushing a book for it's diversity quota or controversy, which is obviously working so far but it'll eventually kill sales in the long run.
They're clearly outselling every other publisher by a long shot, but they can't get enough interest in actual series for anything to sell after the first few issues.
>>83091834
Black Panther #1 - 250k sales.
Gwenpool #1 - 100k sales.
Spider-Gwen #7 - 60k sales.
Spider-Man #3 (Miles) - 59.7k sales.
Mighty Thor (Jane Foster) #6 - 52.5k sales.
ANAD Avengers #8 - 51.9k sales.
Spider-Women Alpha - 50k sales.
Silk #7 - 43k sales.
Spider-Woman #6 - 39k sales.
All New Wolverine #7 - 38.1k sales.
Captain America Sam Wilson #8 - 31k sales.
Ms. Marvel #6 - 29.8k sales.
Captain Marvel #4 - 25.1k sales.
Black Panther and Gwenpool are #1s, which naturally inflates the sales figures. The rest are NOT - and none of those figures are unhealthy. Ms. Marvel, Captain Marvel, and Sam Wilson are a little low, but this isn't factoring in digital, which would put them squarely in the acceptable range. Add in those digital sales, where women-oriented titles regularly top the charts, and it seems like Marvel's made a smart play to expand their market base.
And for all the bitching about SJWs ruining Marvel, this used to be DC's THING. Before the New 52, they had the more diverse universe, hands down - that loss of diversity drove a lot away from DC, many anons included . Oracle? Walking again. Catwoman, Starfire, Power Girl? Forget being strong and independent - [s]sluts[/s]WOMEN in the spotlight! Racial minorities? People WANTED Static Shock, Firestorm, and Blue Beetle - but they got shit writers and no support, and folded within a year. (16 issues for BB, but still.) Oh, and how many people miss Solstice, Cassandra Cain, Kaldur'ahm/Aqualad, Jefferson Pierce AND his daughters, Crispus Allen, Jakeem Thunder, Natasha Irons, Shiva, Obsidian, Scandal Savage, Knockout, Renee Montoya... Before the New 52, DC had a talent for building up the world and the legacies - and that meant they did better with diversity by default.
>>83101370
And that's what Marvel's been doing the last few years. Miles stepped up after Peter's death. Kamala Khan is a fangirl of Carol Danvers. Sam Wilson and Jane Foster have always been strong supporting characters for Cap and Thor. Vision has always been about creating family. Complain about SJWs all you like, but there's a reason DC Rebirth is leading off with Ryan Choi, Aqualad, Jaime Reyes, Jessica Cruz, AND Wally West. You want stories people enjoy reading, you want more than just a white guy in a mask. You want family, community, and legacy. Like it or not, that has always included diversity - which means that as the stories move forward, so does the more diverse cast.
(Also, hell, I thought 4chan supported strikethrough tags.)
>>83101370
Man I have always said dc is better with diversity because they don't shove it down our throats but when you put it that way I realise that outside of maybe demon knights there really not that much anymore.
Wait are you saying Starfire wasent always like she was in red hood and the outlaws I always assumed they just changed her personality for the tv
>>83091834
>Most comic book readers are white males.
Actually, the vast majority of savvy comic book readers I know are black turbonerds. Anecdotal, I know, but just thought I'd throw that out there.
That said, they mostly like white heroes and I don't hear much about any black hero that isn't Black Panther or War Machine (a lot of them double as huge /m/ people.)
>>83091834
That....is not why it's a failed experiment.
It's a failed experiment because it was all forced and poorly written and cheap, like most everything Marvel has put out since Disney realized it would never make money again and was only for IP farming.
It wasn't bad because you might possibly have a triggered persecution complex; it was bad because even with white characters the series just wouldn't be very good because they were poorly written cash grabs by poor writers working in lousy conditions.
>>83092600
This. You fucking think anybody cares about your speshul snowflake tastes? There's a fucking reason Marvel is and always has been the market leader. Whiny little shits are easily replacable.
Marvel understands how to run a business, unlike DC who keep pandering to retards and tanking their company.
>>83091834
>not reading Ultimates.
OP confirmed faggot. Everybody move along, nothing to see here.
>>83092878
>only 12 #1s for Marvel
slow month I guess
>>83091834
>>83100256
Holy shit how ignorant are you? Wally is back in like, 16 hours. Rebirth is literally a White Wally story
>>83101153
Marvel's constant relaunches are already not seeing their numbers increase image way they used to. Whether they'll crash the whole industry again or it'll only affect them when things go tits up remains to be seen.
>>83101419
Starfire was rarely as bubbly and cheerful as she was on the TV series. Emotion was always a strong part of her character, though - she was frequently depicted as being an intensely passionate individual, in both love and war. And yes, she was less clothed than most, though it was usually presented as being extremely comfortable with herself and her body. (Though the titillation factor for the reader varied from comic to comic.)
Starfire definitely was NOT always like her portrayal in Red Hood and the Outlaws. Her initial portrayal, in fact, got the company a ton of bad press, resulting in some hasty damage control. (Scott Lobdell claimed that it was all part of the plot, but I'd bet money that management pulled him aside and told him to stop fucking up.)
We're getting some really good books
what's the fuckin problem
>>83101153
if Marvel's selling low then DC's selling worse, they're lucky if a store manages to sell double digits of their stocks.
>>83101726
You know what I love about that comic that was complaining about red hood and the outlaws.
He could easily have made it about gender it would be just as frequently posted and he would be making those sweet tumblr bucks but he had the integrity to say no this is not about gender both genders hate new Starfire.
>>83101753
We are burnt out onultiverse reshuffles just do a hard reboot.
Say this this and this are getting retconed and then continue on as if nothing happened.
Would that be so hard
>>83101882
*Burnt out on multiverse reshuffles
>>83101868
Wellll, he's getting the Tumblr love anyway.
>>83101882
Marvel has an aversion to hard reboots. Hell, X-Men continuity still includes Giant-Size X-Men #1, Mutant Massacre and Fall of the Mutants, from 30+ years ago. Magneto's still a Holocaust survivor, Punisher still went to Vietnam. Black Widow can still get away with being a Cold War trainee for a little while longer, but still.
>>83101370
Yeah I loved DC for their diversity before they slowly started including their silver age fetish.
Hell Ryan CHOI got his own series as the Atom and he was an asian successor to Ray Palmer.
Instead, before New 52 DC decided to kill him and thrust Ray back into his role. Fuck that.
>>83102032
As far as I can tell though marvel does not put so much retarded effort into explaining the second they do perform
>>83098119
maybe not a true majority, but they're definitely still the largest group.
>>83091834
Okay so I'm a white guy and am absolutely not an SJW or a feminist but I do like the attempts at diversifying the modern cast of heroes. I do think it's important for a kid to see themselves on a comic. And as long as the book is more like TAH and not Jane Thor or Angela things should be fine. I'm not the only sane one who feels this way right?
What pisses me the fuck off is that retarded people who have never read a Marvel comic in their life called marvel sexist and racist for not having enough diversity but when the books come out to address their complaints they tank because those same people bitching just like to bitch and had no intention of buying any Marvel comics and supporting the diversity changes they helped create. It's fucking infuriating because I do like Chulk and Sam Cap but their not getting support from the hypocrites who complained on Twitter because no one fucking reads comics. Instead casual SJWS are buying tons of Spider-Gwen and Ms. Marvel merchandise while the issues they buy of their respective series go purchased but unread because Tumblr told them those characters were hip and cool so they HAVE to like them giving Marvel more incentive to publish them.
>>83091834
why are there 4 fucking spider based superheroes in this group?
sjw shit aside who would think that this would be a good idea?
>>83102080
*Explaining the retcons they do perform
Fucking autocorrect
>>83102166
I´m more angry about the fact that both marvel and dc are in the quest to appear "progressive" keep portraying all the white male characters as losers that can´t get anything right without the help of a women.
it´s basically how women were represented in the 60s and 70s.
it´s just bother-line racist and sexist at this point
what kind of kid liked to read a story that constantly tells them that they are useless compared to women
>>83102032
Punisher was retconned from being a 'Nam vet in Rucka's run. And at this point Mags is running around in a de-aged clone body so sticking hard and fast to the Holocaust is starting to wear thin.
>>83102032
Every once in a while they will upgrade the characters, but only for their background/elements of their story that are too related to a particular historical period.
For example Ironman origin story was updated in the Extremis saga so that it happened in Afghanistan, while earlier it was in Vietnam
The real problem is that they are against rebooting completely the universe, so all the old stories are still true, and the biggest stories always have one or more cameos from other series, so you can't even use something retarded but "necessary" like "It was all a dream"
They could have rebooted everything with Secret Wars, that was conceptually Crisis on Infinite Earths, but they didn't have the courage to do itThe real reason I want a reboot is because I know that "Spidey was never with MJ" would hurt less then "Spidey was married with MJ but they retconned it because the Marvel writers have awful tastes in women"
Yup, I'm still butthurt about it
>>83102230
It's not a group, it's a promo for the ANAD lineup
>>83102355
ah thanks
I only rarely follow comics since sjw and liberals sucked out all the fun for me
>>83102297
What comics are DC and Marvel doing this in now?
Comic book nerds are impotent white racist misogynists. Got it.
I suppose we can go back to treating you all like the worthless shits you are, then.
We know your comic book companies already are.
>>83102437
every comic I read at least.
I randomly selected 4 different comics every two weeks for almost a half a year now at
http://viewcomic.com/page/2/
I got like a 4 out of 5 chance that they featured the very thing i described
spiderman is a good example of just that
>>83102080
>>83102342
Yeah, Marvel doesn't do hard reboots. Instead, they've usually utilized the "sliding scale" timeline, or soft reboots. They won't have events to explain every change, but you'll notice that Tony Stark was no longer captured by Vietnamese fighters, Charles Xavier didn't fight in the Korean War, the original X-Men no longer hung out at a malt shop or record store, etc.
>>83102067
Ryan Choi's removal as the Atom has always baffled me. You had a character designed by Grant Morrison, written beautifully by Gail Simone, widely accepted by everyone as a replacement for Ray Palmer, who was underutilized on a MASSIVE scale... And he's killed off after three years, so Ray can return in the New 52 for bit appearances in titles so far off the radar, most people probably don't remember he's actually back.
What the FUCK, DC?
>>83102302
Didn't realize his run had done that. I don't think that change stuck in the public mind much, though. And yeah, Magneto has been deaged a few times now, I think - he's just so tightly tied to the Holocaust, it's virtually impossible to untangle him from it. (As long as you want to keep him as Eric Lensherr, anyway. Seems like a good thread to point out that there are plenty of more modern genocides that a new Magneto could have arisen from...)
>>83102427
Yeah, it's nothing like the 90s, where the only spider-based heroes were Spider-Man, Scarlet Spider, Venom, and Spider-Woman Julia Carpenter.
>>83091834
Scott Lang is ok. I wish they kept more Ultimate Universe characters in ANAD though, like they did with Miles
Is GotG worth reading? I'm a huge Thing fan, also what do I have to read about Ben Grimm after Secret Wars?
>>83102166
I think this just about covers the problem.
>>83102427
What a defeatist attitude, anon. There are lots of fun comics around still
>>83102565
>As long as you want to keep him as Eric Lensherr, anyway. Seems like a good thread to point out that there are plenty of more modern genocides that a new Magneto could have arisen from...
While I have personally no problems with that, I would expect some kind of shitstorm if they changed Magneto's ethnicity.Also I think that the fact that he's Hebrew stopped some authors from making him do really monstrous crimes.
Wasn't he retconned to be a gipsy for a period when made one of his most atrocious crimes, to later be retconned as being actually a robot or something like that?
>>83091834
>diversity
>seven of those characters aren't minorities or female, including half of the main four and are arguably the two biggest (stark and parker)
>another of them is literally a stereotype from a mortal kombat game
>ms marvel, fem thor and captain falcon all predate ANAD
>miles morales has just swapped into the main universe and has the same writer he always has
>ms marvel is actually good
>gwen is actually popular (albeit unfortunately)
>>83102730
Not quite. He was "retconned" to a gypsy in the 80s, when he was pretty close to the good guy side, but Jewish fans understandably objected to the most prominent Jewish comic book character having his religion stripped from him.
The other retcon involved Xorn and Grant Morrison writing Magneto poorly.
>>83102603
They folded in who they could from Ultimate. By the time Secret Wars hit, the line was pretty badly damaged, though. Maker, Miles, and Bombshell were some of the few left that were salvageable and non-redundant. I'm hoping Jessica Drew-1610 gets rescued through Web Warriors/Silk/etc., but there's not many other people left to bring into 616.
>Is GotG worth reading?
The Bendis version is generally considered to be for fans of the movie only, and only middling fare for them. For everyone else, general consensus is it's pretty bad.
>>83102730
>later be retconned as being actually a robot or something like that
I think you're talking about Xorn. That's a continuity snarl approaching Hawkman levels.
>>83102166
>>83102786
What's the problem with Spider-Gwen
I only recently started to read comics againand only recently started browsing /co/and I'm mostly focused on read older stories, so I'm not really on par with the latest developments, but Spider-Gwen is "big" enough that I heard of it even before going back to read comicsAlso, while I'm on it, what's the problem with FemThor? I'm not really sold on the concept (unworthy Thor sound cool as fuck, but I think it would have been better to keep the hammer on hold), but the complaining is only related to the concept and the whole SJW thing or there are real problems in the series?
>>83102919
FemThor has had some very shitty writing to go along with it. For some reason they felt like they had to keep her identity a mystery for several issues, resulting in her having zero characterization all for the sake of a reveal that everyone called before the series dropped.
>>83102854
>>83102858
I probably mixed up various sagas in my memory, particularly because I wasn't yet born to read those stories
Thanks for the clarification
>>83102854
Grant Morrison wrote Magneto fantastically. He stopped tiptoeing around the edge, and finally dove headlong into being Mutant Hitler. The problem was, Magneto's a comic book icon on par with the Fantastic Four, the Avengers, Doom, etc. That's a lot of merchandising money down the drain if he's finally written out, so Marvel decided they weren't going to let Morrison play with the X-Men QUITE as much as they originally said, and had another writer retcon the Hitlering.
Which is too bad, because since then, he's been pretty neutered. He's basically been the grumpy grandpa of the X-clan for the last decade.
>>83102919
Spider-Gwen basically came out of nowhere. She got massive hype because of the costume before even making an appearance during Spider-Verse. Her comic isn't bad by any means, but her ties to the larger MCU are very slim, which means she's likely to end up in the same spot as Spider-Girl in a few years - a popular character from a moment in time who won't have enough fans to become a regular character anywhere, but won't be forgotten enough to let die.
>>83102993
Haven't really read enough Foster-Thor to comment on writing quality. To me, she's got the more obvious problem - Thor's a billion dollar franchise right now. And that franchise's frontman is most definitely a man. If Jane Foster isn't stone dead or cured and handing the hammer back by the time Thor 3 hits theaters, I'll eat my cat.
>>83103118
Sadly Iceman has not the same luck of Thor, so there is the serious risk that he may remain gay for a very long time.
I have no problems with gay characters, I'm perfectly fine with the younger Bobby being gay, but you can't have the original one, that has dated multiple girls in his 50 years of existence, that abandoned the mission to find Havok because his girlfriend Polaris had disappeared, suddenly being revealed as always being homosexual.
At least let him being bi, for Christ's sake
>>83103222
Bi erasure is one of the few things I agree with SJW types on. You see it fucking everywhere.
>>83102565
Ryan's back in Rebirth.
>>83092878
Is there ever a month Marvel doesn't flood the market with #1's?
>>83103340
Ever since ANAD started back in like October they've had at least 2-3 #1s each month.
Just the bigger ones happened earlier. And now an event is happening so that'll protect them until they relaunch some new stuff.
DC's kinda following that idea with Rebirth where things are trickling out over June-September and then they have Young Animal stuff through November, and they'll presumably have new books set for beginning of 2017.
>>83103222
>At least let him being bi, for Christ's sake
see but that would have actually made sense and respected character history and the fans too so it couldn't have happened
>>83103396
That's still a lot of #1's in that image. I remember checking the past few months thinking the same thing as this month.
>>83103222
>>83103260
Yeah, that retcon was handled... poorly. It's still possible that it'll be smoothed over some once Marvel fixes the clusterfuck that is the O5 STILL being in the modern day.
Seriously, why hasn't someone smacked Bendis with a rolled up newspaper and told him to send the O5 back already? They HAVE to go back at some point, and they obviously can't keep any memories, which makes their presence the definition of static storytelling. Hell, we had an entire summer event predicated on the idea that time travel is fucking the universe over, and they're still here.
>>83103337
Yeah, I saw, I mentioned it earlier in the thread.
>>83103340
>>83103471
First issues are just a thing in the comic industry. Unless you're a title where the numbering's gone so long, it looks more impressive (Action Comics, Detective Comics, Superman, Spider-Man, X-Men), #1s are just their time-tested way of luring in new readers with the promise of a story they can get into immediately.
>>83103471
A couple of them in the image are event #1s like Robin War #1
>>83103569
>Seriously, why hasn't someone smacked Bendis with a rolled up newspaper and told him to send the O5 back already?
I'm actually liking them more then the other X-men teams/comics right now.
>>83103669
Eh. I've been of the opinion that the X-teams need a massive continuity cleanup for years now (see earlier complaints about everything since 1975 being in current continuity). The O5 being around doesn't help that, and they are, by default, not going to change significantly while they're in the 'future'. I would've been a fan had they stuck around for a single story arc, but it's now been FOUR YEARS. Two of the five future selves are presently dead, one's a blank slate, one is still acting like a bag of dicks, and one wants to steal the bag away for himself. By any reasonable measure, their "stay in the future" mission is a resounding failure.
Of course, nothing's going to happen because the X-Men are a dumping ground until the movie rights come back in some form.
>>83091834
>Black America
If the new Captain America was some average guy off the street that took up Cap's mantle, i'd agree with you, but niggah it's fucking Sam Wilson/The Falcon we're talking about here. He's more that worthy to take Cap's place
>>83092774
what is Iron man?
inb4 benis
>>83091834
Why is Valkyrie white?
>>83091834
>Thor
>Decent
lel. The decent ones are Cho Hulk, Ms. Marvel, and Captain Falcon.
>>83103889
the x-books are basically in a slump since Marvel has been told by Isaac not to emphasize the line because Fox has the rights to the movies. It's why all the ambitious editors all left the line (or Marvel altogether) and they left it to the B-list editor.
>>83092774
If you look at the top 10, then excluding the #1s and team books then 7 feature white male leads.
What happened with that huge announcement Marvel was going to make yesterday?
>>83105200
something related to Cap apparently, they chickened out >>83100785
>>83105200
Likely pushed back to after the releases of two new #1's from Marvel
>>83097143
>Discussion about recent comic sales.
>Not /co/ related.
Fuck off.
I don't mind marvel wanting to be more diverse but I just wish the didn't wash out old characters to do it.I don't mind brown miss marvel though. I was never a fan of the original.
>>83091834
Most DC readers are middle aged white guys. I believe the same is true of Image, so maybe you'd be happier reading their stuff. They do seem to be hoovering up DC dollar share.
Marvel's research found that their readership was about 50% younger, generally black but in large part hispanic, males, and about 10% women around the same time (about seven or eight years ago). Most of the males were serving military.
Their comics are white because movies and tv (and not just Marvel) are white; it's an uncanny valley thing where - as you're experiencing - if it starts to reflect reality you don't like it, but Marvel has always been at its best and most creative when it has been just a step away from reality, unlike DC which, ironically, goes almost full Disney fantasy world at times with the feelgood crap.
>>83094582
Former comic book employee, can confirm a lot of these people exist. They come in and buy anything with ______ character in it. Most of the time they were the major characters (Batman was #1 by far, Spidey was #2, then a steep drop for the rest), but there were always a handful who were really into Flash or Thor or that next tier of characters. I remember specifically one guy who's pull list just said "Batman (All)", I pulled a copy of Action Comics for him. He got really pissed at me for this, saying I was trying to sell him comics he didn't want, blah blah. I explained that this is part 1 of a story that continues in Detective next week, so I was trying to do him a solid by pulling it for him, since I knew he'd be buying Detective.
Also, surprise surprise, that was the best selling issue of Action in awhile.
>>83105226
>>83105223
Or Rich was full of shit as usual.
>>83105325
This. Legacy characters in general are super cancerous, give us new characters that aren't tied down to older ones with the intention of replacing them.
>>83105581
The Thunderbolts guy tweeted something suggesting it was true and that he needed to know for his run. It's likely not that big of a deal though.
>>83105349
>Marvel's research.
Is this the same "research" they did that said that Age of Ultron was their second most critically acclaimed book of all time?
>>83105660
Remembe the last time he compared something to the Anatomy Lesson was an absolute flop.
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/02/06/marvel-launches-the-secret-origin-of-tony-stark-from-kieron-gillen-and-sale-eaglesham/
>>83102166
I'm with you anon. I really don't care as long as the book is good, and if it's not I will just not read it. I don't really care about books like Squirrel Girl or Hellcat either, they're not for me but if they can reach an audience that enjoys them, that's fine by me. There is plenty of room for everyone to find something they enjoy in comics.
>>83091834
>Can we all agree this was a failed experiment? No one but hardcore SJWs want this diversity crap.
sure no wonder Marvel is with 40% of market share.
>>83105798
Yeah it might not be a big shock but there's still something actually happening. I just mean Rich didn't completely make up the idea of some reveal on his own.
>DCYou and ANAD destroyed the floppy growth we've been seeing for the past four years, setting it back two years
>Rebirth's going to pander hard to the old fans and bring it back
If only Marvel had something better than Civil War 2, Dead No More, and Death of X.
>>83105829
They have SW and DC alienated/screwed retailers with Convergence.
>>83105845
>DCYou
It was absolutely Convergence that started the trend. Then again DC should have known screwing your supporters with an non-event would end them on everyones shit list.
>>83105908
Convergence had to happen because of the move to LA. An unavoidable bad situation.
>>83105945
Not him but I don't really buy that. Everything is sent in digitally these days anyway and it's not like the editors were physically moving boxes the whole time. They could have found a way to do normal books instead or at least written a real event to take up the space like how it was going to be the original purpose of Flashpoint.
>>83091834
The problem with forced diversity is that they're all fucking legacy characters.
It's disgusting, I know it's to boost sales but it's disgusting.
>>83106022
If that was within the realm of possibility, they would have done it. Handing the reigns over to a bunch of newbies for two months isn't something a company does because it wants to.
>>83105945
Not really. They hadn't planned on doing a filler series until the last minute. It was suppose to be several non-shipping months until the story goes Didio put something together at the last minute (and basically screwed a) the retailers and b) all the the new editors/writers)
>>83106118
Non-shipping months are also bad.
>>83105325
Agree. Also no need to throw diversity speech to our face.
Do you want to make black gay Thor, fine, do it and put him punching ice giants, but don't expend pages and pages "LOOK I'M BLACK and I'M GAY and I'M THOR". I want to see my heroes punching shit not talking about internet opinions.
>>83105325
>I don't mind brown miss marvel though. I was never a fan of the original.
No one was. The only important thing Carol Danvers ever did was get lobotomized and power-drained by Rogue.
>>83102919
Okay so I guess you haven't read Jane Thor's stuff. While her most recent ANAD title is a huge improvement and to be completely honest I love the design of the character her first volume was atrocious. Yes it's a cool idea that Thor is unworthy but we have not even a hint as to WHY he's unworthy! It's been almost 3 years now and we still don't know why Jane deserves to weild the hammer over Thor. We also were told that Jane Foster was NOT under the mask when they were doing the whole "Who's the new female Thor? " mystery only for her to be exactly who fans guessed she was proving no one knew what character they were writing. Lastly the horrible agenda pushing "girl power" and "feminism" angle. I don't know about you but equality is a character not bringing up their ethnicity or gender. Silk, Spider-Gwen, Chulk, all new diverse variations of former characters who don't bring up their ethnicity or gender. Seeing this shouted in the pages of Thor was head scratching and a wolf in sheep's clothing for any woman who wanted more representation.
I'll be back with the other panel and Spider-Gwen stuff
>>83102730
In probably the slowest guy on the planet but I just now realized the irony of a holocaust survivor who's all about mutant superiority.
In my defense, I don't tend to put much thought into magneto.
>>83102919
I don't think there's a problem with you liking Spider-Gwen. If that's what got you back into comics awesome! She's a fun character with a rad costume and an I innovative (if not salty) creative team. The thing I dislike is that the majority of her fans tell me they "love the character but haven't been keeping up with her" even though the character has only been around for like a tear or two. It's the costume and the gender people like and that's it and that gets under my skin but again if she's genuinely bringing new readers, how can I argue with that?
>>83091834
>Can we all agree
nigga we couldn't even all agree if human's are a carbon based life form.
>>83105824
That's sort of the thing I like about ANAD. Yes there's the danger of diluteing the ip by publishing so many books but I really think Marvel is trying to grab as many readers as possible. Yes there are the silly feminine comics like Hellcat and Squirrel Girl but there are egdy comics like Daredevil and Punisher. There are (let's face it) Avengers for casuals like ANAD and Avengers for fans like Uncanny. And while the cosmic end of the 616 has been inappropriately handled I think Ultimates is a huge improvement by pandering to cosmic fans. He'll even Contest of Champions isn't a bad cosmic book even if it's a commercial for an app. It's not perfect but I do feel like ANAD is an attempt to get something for everyone with a variety in tone I don't see with DC books.
I don't think all Marvel comics hate white men, and when there are books like that it's best to vote with the dollar and ignore that content.
So Marvel doesn't like doing reboots and I can understand that, but it's -Marvel-
Can't they just have some sort of "Birth of a Universe" run or something? They love their universes, just start up a fresh one where shit hasn't happened yet. (Or some shit has happened, if you want to keep some of the geezers around).
>>83107486
Every time they try, it never sells and so they go back to the old universe.
>>83107486
>"Birth of a Universe"
As in finally explaining what happened during the eight-month gap after Secret Wars?captcha: satan
>>83107593
That will be the eternal Noodle Incident: never revealed, never explained.
>>83105349
>Marvel's research found that their readership was about 50% younger, generally black but in large part hispanic, males, and about 10% women around the same time (about seven or eight years ago). Most of the males were serving military.
Source?
>>83096872
If you make your browser window narrower, you can maybe make that capture picture not so wide.
>>83106875
>>83106968
Thanks for the answer.
I haven't read those two series yet, when I said that I'm reading older stories I meant that now I'm completely focused on themI've read Squadron Supreme and Demon in a Bottle among others and I've started to read DC comics with classics like All-Star Superman, Peace on Earth or The Killing Joke
The question was made for pure curiosity and to know, for when I'll get back to read the current stories, if they are worth it and the criticism they havesince I originally abandoned the comics since following too many series independently from their quality had progressively burned me out
Thanks again for the answer, I suppose I'll eventually try to read Spider-Gwen
Let's hope that Thor gets better as a series
>>83107134
>Yes there's the danger of diluteing the ip by publishing so many books but I really think Marvel is trying to grab as many readers as possible. Yes there are the silly feminine comics like Hellcat and Squirrel Girl but there are egdy comics like Daredevil and Punisher. There are (let's face it) Avengers for casuals like ANAD and Avengers for fans like Uncanny.
I've never seen someone put it down into words but I agree 100%, the diversity of the Marvel line is great. While everything doesn't appeal to me, there are options that do appeal to me, and there are plenty of things for people who are looking for something different to enjoy.
>>83091834
I don't give a shit if a book is diverse or not, I care if its good.
I didn't care when Dick became Batman because it was a good story. People will say "Ah but anon, that's a natural progression" what and Sam one day maybe becoming Cap isn't?
The concept of someone else having Mjolnir is right there on the fucking Hammer. "whomever holds this hammer etc" Did they change it from he to they? Yes, but then to be it wouldn't make much sense that only males could possibly be worthy. Now the story we got was absolute fucking dogshite, but the concept is sound.
Kamila Kahn is an enjoyable character. So is Miles Morales. People claim he's just black Peter, but he isn't. Peter is defined by guilt for the death of loved ones, Miles is defined by having a name to live up to. To having this legend exist and him taking up the mantle and the burden that comes with that is his deal. Miles and Kamila are probably the only two characters that have come out of this recent spate of minority characters from Marvel and DC that will stick around to any great capacity. Unless you count DC moving Cyborg into a place of prominence within the DCU, because that doesn't seem to be going away any time soon.
The issue for me was never the so called "SJW pandering", it was quality which was ultimately the let down.
What I find hard to understand is the backlash to certain characters. We enjoy a medium where legacy characters are not only a thing, but are sometimes beloved. There are people who prefer Wally West to Barry Allen, who prefer Guy Gardener to Hal Jordan. But for some reason, if a new legacy character comes along, and they happen to be a minority, all of a sudden alarm bells start going off in peoples minds and they start screaming SJW SJW SJW. Are they right? Absolutely. Sometimes it completely is SJW pandering, but with the sheer number of white male superheroes in comparison to minority or female ones, there is a balance that needs redressing to some degree.
>>83108396
I think some of the negative response is because it seems like the big two are forcing themselves to be diverse and forcing the readers to like it. It comes with a bit of a smug air about it.
Readers don't like to be told they have to like this new Muslim Green Lantern or that Wally is now black. Given that films, tv, and movies seem to be going out of their way to be inclusive and diverse lately, it just feels forced.
>>83107486
You mean do what DC did and have a really confusing reboot where some stuff happened, some stuff didn't and its just as confusing for those in the know as what it is for newbies?
>>83109395
There's a difference between something done wrong and something that's wrong to do. Marvel sometimes still likes its little All-The-Bullshit-That's-Happened-So-Far intros. The only issue I can see is having to many old supers would kinda ruin the point and overshadow the new ones, and too many new supers would make it "not muh" for a lot of people. I'm not sure I'd trust Marvel to find the balance, but at least for the latter you can chuck the good newbies into the main universe if all else fails.
>>83100511
You are literally everything wrong with cape comics.
>>83103260
>Hey, Iceman is gay now!
>You mean bi? Because he's had female relationships before
>Nope, full blown gay
>Well fuck, at least we still have Hercules for our bi needs
>Nope, Hercules is fully blown straight now
Not even an SJW, but it really is fucking bullshit.
>>83101699
Marvel is almost half of the industry. Without them, LCSs wouldn't be able to stay in business and the vast majority would close. This would annihilate the direct market, taking most other publishers down with them.
Marvel is "too big to fail" as it were. Hell, the same would happen if DC went under. Marvel would probably survive that given their size, but DC is enough of the market that it would really hurt a lot of LCSs.
The Big 2 are the tentpoles that keep the industry afloat. At least the direct market side of the industry.
>>83111863
I don't recall Hercules being bi in comics, but it wouldn't shock me. Where did it happen?
>>83111863
This, couldn't they just make him Bi, does Perlmutter hate Bisexuals?
>>83096872
I like that Heinlein reference: "why is that?" "probably money."
I didn't read the whole thing cause I don't care that much. I've dropped buying Marvel books except Thor so Marvel can do what it wants, and I can save my money.
(I don't even like Fem Thor, but I can't help myself, and any feat Fem Thor does becomes a feat Thor is capable of, so its good for that purpose, plus the art is top tier.)
>>83101753
Most of them are so so.
>>83091834
Aside from the SJW centric titles, there's been some really good marvel books released from ANAD. Vision, New Avengers, Ant Man, Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur, Ultimates... Hell, Sam Wilson Cap hasn't been too bad.
Anyone else kind of underwhelmed by black panther? You'd think they'd be giving his book more of a push.
>>83112997
They actually pushed Black Panther really hard, and the movie and Coates' status helped.
As a big time Marvel fan and hater of DC, I've decided to switch companies for good.
>>83091834
I actually think All New All Different Avengers is pretty solid aside from all of the event tie ins lately, but thats just marvel these days. The character work is good, its not in your face about the diversity, it just feels natural and organic, which is the way it should be. Haven't read the rest, don't know about it really
>>83114701
Rooney, I've said it before and I'll say it again.
You're a fucking moron.
Anyone who plays company wars is a fucking moron. If its good, read it, if it isn't don't.
Id just like to remind you that the entire reason there is a company war was because Stan Lee jokingly, JOKINGLY, used to rib the "distinguished competition" in a very tongue in cheek manner in the back of the comics. And it was jokingly because the fucker used to play golf at the weekends with the guys from DC
Fucking autists like you couldn't see past the light heartedness of it all and now we legitimately have people in the year of our lord 2016 who play at company wars.
You are everything that is wrong with the medium.
>>83115777
I blame /v/ and /tv/ for the influx of retards.
>>83114701
Why would you hate DC in the first place
>>83114996
All-new All-Different Avengers is straight up the worst currently running Avengers book.
Go read Uncanny Avengers, New Avengers, and Ultimates. THOSE are some good books.
>>83105349
>marvel primarily panders to people too young to know better and minorities
Sounds about right. Marvel fans always get chased away before adulthood so they need a constant stream of replacement purchasers. Might as well ship them in from other countries.
