DC Rebirth Speculation discussion Thread
titanic edition
more like
>DC probably spoiled their own shit
edition
Titans Rebirth cover was released.
>>83088275
If something can be spoiled, it's not worth reading in the first place
I'm utterly shocked that someone hasn't scanned it all by now
Will it be going up on Comixology at midnight tomorrow?
>3 Jokers
>3 Supermen
>2 Wallys
>Doctor Manhatten
>Lois Lane is Superwoman
What the actual fuck is going on?
I'm more excited for Young Animal.
>>83088336
that is some of the most retarded logic I ever heard
>>83088403
it'll be on comixology at midnight pst like always for DC.
>>83088423
We heard you liked legacies, so we made everything a legacy!
>>83088459
If something is only good because of a reveal, it's not actually good. Story > Continuity and all that jazz.
A good piece of culture can be read multiple times and you'll still get more out of it.
>>83088423
It's called diversity
Something you queers still don't understand for some reason
>tfw just checked and neither of my two LCSes are doing midnight releases
and it's bullshit, too, because one of them has more than enough leftover employees to do it. fuckers.
Guess I'm confirmed for pirating and then guilt-buying it the next day.
>>83088555
Dammit, Takumi. Not everyone wants to be at work at midnight so your whiny bitch ass can buy a stupid fucking comic book.
Of all the DCYou title that they could've picked to continue, why did they have to pick Dr. Fate? it's such a waste of a complex character...and good art, Sonny Liew is fantastic and Inaki Miranda is going to do a short two issue fill in.
>Batman will be good again
>WW will be good again
>Flash will be good again
>Earth 2 cancer might get purged at long last
>watchmen will serve a purpose other than "that book which started grimdark"
How is this any different from what everyone complained about last year?
>>83088555
I've never been to a midnight release. I'm curious but it might be the nerdiest thing I've ever done. What is the point exactly?
>>83088652
To lord over your friends that you're so desperate for a comic book that you stayed up late so you could get it before them like the petty dick that you are.
>>83088536
That's a bit different than saying, "if it CAN be spoiled, then it's shit." Any story can be spoiled, including things like highbrow lit. But that doesn't mean they're bad because of it.
You're absolutely right that it's silly to bank a story's quality on the "big reveal". Hopefully, with Johns writing, the issue will have a little bit more substance than just the spoiled parts.
>>83088643
>watchmen will serve a purpose other than "that book which started grimdark"
What point will that be? We don't even know what they're going to do with it or the characters aside from bringing Manhattan in to give him an utterly generic role that could have been filled by other characters like Superboy Prime or the Antimonitor.
>>83088643
>watchmen will serve a purpose other than "that book which started grimdark"
Aside from being a damn good comic book and a great deconstruction of superheroes?
>>83088719
So not like...free posters?
>>83088726
>Any story can be spoiled, including things like highbrow lit
How the fuck would you spoil Ulysses?
>>83088808
No one said it would be easy.
>>83088726
everyone who's talked about it makes it sound like it works even knowing the spoilers
>>83088423
Dc has only a couple of interesting characters, so why not just duplicate and triplicate them and let the cash flow in.
>>83088833
But it would be as retardedly convoluted as the book itself.
Also, the greatness on Ulysses is not the plot, but how many obscure linguistic and catholic jokes can you get without internet
>>83088652
Basically >>83088719
Historically, the above is VERY true. In this day and age, I'd also argue that it's just to get the issue as soon as you're able to and not need to avoid spoilers anymore. Comic shops open at weird/different times; then, add in the delays due to time zones, too. You might end up finally getting a physical copy of the issue like 4-7 hours after everyone else, EVEN if you get to your LCS as soon as it opens.
Midnight releases balance things out, so that you're waiting just a little bit less time and you can stop avoiding Twitter/forums/etc/etc.
>>83088906
If that's the case then I'm clearly not smart enough to read it.
Don't be mad at me, I'm just asking a question because the original Wally is my favorite and the black one was obviously thrown in solely for the sake of diversity and left alone with hardly any character development. If you want to shitstain characters, at least give them proper character development to make me like them.
Anyway, my question is, since they said "DC Rebirth is intended to restore the DC Universe to a form much like that prior to the "Flashpoint" storyline" does this mean that I'm gonna get based Wally and the rest of the Flash family back?
Sorry for any offense, please don't ban me. I'm sorry for existing.
>>83089028
Read the preview
>>83088891
>Joker
>interesting
>>83089028
>Wally
Yes. Pre-Flashpoint Wally is more-or-less officially back and will be in Abnett's Titans run.
>Flash family
Probably other adult speedsters, yes. But (probably) not Wally's family, although I'm sure there will be a storyline that teases their existence. Wally has been deaged to be around Dick Grayson's New52 age.
>>83088929
Read it with the help of internet or an anotated version.
It's a beautiful experience.
>>83089177
I'm going to need to do that with Gravity's Rainbow as well.
>>83089159
This is the best news I've heard all year.
>>83089206
What's the big deal with Gravity's Rainbow?
I don't want to ask /lit/ because they are a bunch of snobs, but I've never heard that name outside of internet (maybe because I almost only read shit written by spanish authors).
>>83089159
Did Max, Johnny, Jessie and other speedsters ever make an appearance in new 52?
were nu52's sale hurting or something?
>>83088423
>3 Jokers
>3 Supermen
>2 Wallys
I KNOW WHOSE FAULT THIS IS
>>83089555
Not initially but they have been getting hit since the second year.
>>83089555
DC has about 11 titles in the top 50
so yes
You know what the DC Universe is missing ? Static . Static is missing.
>>83087961
They can fuck themselves.
Wasted the last 5 years buying Superman comics and it turns out it wasn't even Superman.
From now on I'll just pirate everything
>>83089555
DCYou flopped incredibly hard, yes.
And most of the A listers had incredibly shitty teams. Wonder Woman and Flash were probably down there in the worst DC titles.
And relaunches get more attention than just changing creative teams.
>>83089854
To be fair, Mr. Oz said neither Supes nor Nupes were who they thought they were.
>People calling Rebirth a reboot
OK I'd like to start by saying that yeah, this is backpeddling but it's not a reboot. All the stories going forward are still set firmly in the "New 52" continuity, the only people who aware of their lives before are OG Wally because he out ran the reboot wave and Superman who was plucked out of the way, everybody else had their timelines slapped by Manhattans big blue dick. We arten't going to see a instant snap back to pre Flashpoint continuity. What Rebirth is about is getting the characters back to who they were and what relationships defined them but this is going to happen gradually over the next two years. Anything that can be fixed quickly will be (Aquaman marrying Mera) but most won't be instant. I cant say what will happen in two years time when the event they're planning happens but right now we just have to deal with the facts as we see them.I know it's fun to speculate and overreact though
>>83089854
>Wasted the last 5 years buying Superman comics and it turns out it wasn't even Superman.
Didn't Marvel do that with Spidey too? Not sure if it was for that long (not Superior but back in the Clone Sage era iirc) but how often does this shit happen?
>>83089854
He thought he was Superman. He wore the S and did his best. That's all you need to be Superman.
>>83089894
>because he out ran the reboot
>>83089870
For real though, has Flash been good since Waid left?
>>83089883
They still sold me it with the name Superman.
Superman's own run is worthless now, same for Superman/Batman and Superman/Wonder Woman.
>>83089918
The clone saga and it was a massive clusterfuck. Believe it or not this is much cleaner
>>83089854
When did they declare n52 Superman as not the real Superman?
>>83089870
Arguably it was because Convergence screwed retailers and they underordered DCYou, which then flopped hard because of it.
>>83089813
Milestone is supposed to be starting again, supposedly as OGNs, like Earth One.
Fuck knows when they'll start, though.
>>83089960
They haven't butRemember when Superman was depowered with the buzz cut and jeans and everybody said how much he looked like an adult Conner?
>>83089813
Milestone is coming as it's own universe eventually.
What year did Watchmen come out, 1986?
Because I have a working Hypercrisis theory that the Watchmen universe was wiped out by COIE and Dr. Manhattan fucking with the universe was a long attempt to recreate it.
>>83089958
Yeah the Clone Saga was a giant fucking mess so I hope this is cleaner but I was wondering if other heroes have fallen victim to this
>>83089028
With what we know now we won't be getting back Wallys family for awhile but original Jay will be coming back
>>83089459
Not that I know of. Certainly not in the main Flash title.
>>83089944
Why? It's not as if he was retconned out of the story.
Also, even though he's currently dead, he's likely to return due to what Mr. Oz brought into the table.
>>83090049
Crisis was April 1985 – March 1986, Watchmen was September 1986 – October 1987.
>>83090049
But why would he save a world he no longer has any stake in?
>>83090010
So just some fan theory?
It's still closer to death of Superman and reign of Supermen from the plot we've seen, rather than nu-Superman not being the real Superman.
>>83089854
STORY BEFORE CONTINUITY
>>83089943
Johns genuinely made me like the Rogues and I guess Manabooch's run had gorgeous art. None of them will be ever to top what Waid contributed though, that's why Johns decided to develop the villains instead.
>>83090155
Mr. Oz said Superman wasn't who he thought he was, or something like that (haven't read the preview, waiting to get my hard copy)
>>83090155
We don't know enough about it yet. Shit we don't even know how NuSuperman dies yet. I don't much agree with this talk about the "Real" Superman anyway because Post crisis Superman isn't the "Real" Superman either.
>>83090202
That could be something as simple as Clark not being from a different world like he thinks he is
>>83088777
Yeah it obviously works on its own and it's a great story but I like the fact that it's finally going to the contribute to the majestic and clusterfucked tapestry of the dc multiverse continuity.
>>83090313
This is how I feel. I don't think sequels can truly diminish an original work anyway and I feel like this opens the way for the potential for more great storiesThe idea of Moore getting mad as fuck when Morrison writes Watchmen 2 makes me smile though
>>83089459
No. Very explicitly not. The majority of the New 52 Flash did everything they could to make sure you never thought about Wally. Stuff like squashing writers' ideas for Wally or cracking down on Manapul's art when he put in someone in the background who looked like Wally.
>>83090440
>Morrison touching Watchmen
>ever
>for any reason
Who's this Mr. Oz people are talking about?
>>83090503
I don't care that much for Morrison's work I just know how much Moore hates him. I will say this though Moore is really precious about everything he wrote and doesn't want anyone to play with his toys while Morrison writes stuff in the hopes that others will be inspired and want to play around with them. I know which one I would rather have a pint with
>>83090440
>>83090503
I think Pax Americana was his way of touching Watchmen while simultaneously saying that he would never do Watchmen.
>>83090555
No idea yet. But my theory is that he is the hooded figure from Johns Superman run who is actuallyPa KentOz is from Kansas after allI really fucking hope it isn't Ozymandias, though it probably is
>>83090606
>I just know how much Moore hates him
I know Morrison is firing shots at Moore all the time, but has Moore ever fired back?
>>83090712
Morrison used to fire shots when he was young and trying to make a name for himself, he mellowed out later and has respect for Moores work, like the killing joke. Moore told people not to read his work if they read Morrisons.
>>83090821
>Moore told people not to read his work if they read Morrisons.
When was this?
>>83090693
The hooded figure might be the same guy from Johns aborted run of Superman (the one with Ulysseus).
>>83090876
Yeah that's who I meant. Is he also hooded in the rebirth issue?
>>83090692
I'd honestly forgotten Pax Americana was a thing. Was it any good?
>>83090901
He is black though.
>>83089870
>And most of the A listers had incredibly shitty teams.
this, This, THISSSSSSS
Holy shit. I know /co/ likes to bitch about Snyder on Batman, but at least he was halfway decent as a writer and had some knowledge of Batman.
But Flash and WW's creative team switches -- which, mind you, happened within 6 months/issues of each other -- are just inexplicable. They were honestly a sign of DC putting their eggs in the wrong basket and, I think, doing exactly what Rebirth said was wrong by ignoring legacy.
ManaBooch went off to Detective Comics right after their Flash run ended, which I think was probably the biggest sign of "Batman Comics" I've seen yet. Azzarello was tied up in Futures' End after his WW run ended.
Even if you weren't huge fans of those initial runs (and admittedly, I wasn't), what followed was pound-for-pound worse in almost every way. More disrespectful to legacy, more ignorant of the characters' pasts, more "edge" for the sake of edge (Future Barry and the killing of the male Amazons).
>>83090162
No.
Continuity before all. Continuity is what makes American mainstream comics special, for better or for worse. Characters and universes grow and change and get added to and subtracted from in a glorious, eternal chaos.
Continuity is love. Continuity is life.
>>83090849
>”...admirers of Grant Morrison’s work would please stop reading mine, as I don’t think it fair that my respect and affection for my own readership should be compromised in any way by people that I largely believe to be shallow and undiscriminating.”
>>83090951
huh. That's both my ideas out the window then
>>83090821
>Morrison used to fire shots when he was young and trying to make a name for himself, he mellowed out later and has respect for Moores work, like the killing joke.
This. Morrison needled Moore in his early years, which pissed Moore off royally. Moore is the type of person who holds grudges, and so has kept the hate burning long after Morrison has backed off.
Kind of wish they'd just bury the hatchet, have a shit-down and hash it out.
>>83090933
It was amazing, personally. Really dense and reading the annotations as they came out was a lot of fun. It was confusing the first time I read it, thought.
>>83090933
If you enjoy Morrison in general you'll like it.
I thought it was very good, though by necessity it can't be as good as Watchmen.
>>83088643
>watchmen will serve a purpose other than "that book which started grimdark"
If this is actually what you think, your opinion can never have value
>>83091023
"Having removed myself as much as possible from a comic scene that seemed more the province of posturing would-be pop-stars than people with a genuine respect for themselves, their craft or the medium in which they were working, I could only marvel when the customary several months after I’d announced my own entry into occultism and the visionary episode which I believed Steve Moore and myself to have experienced in January, 1994, Grant Morrison apparently had his own mystical vision and decided that he too would become a magician. (It wasn’t until I read Lance Parkin’s biography that I learned that as a result of Morrison’s apparently unwitnessed magical epiphany he had boldly decided to pursue a visionary path of ‘materialism and hedonism’. Could I point out for the benefit of anyone who may have been taking this idiotic shit seriously that this doesn’t sound so much like a mystical vision as it does an episode of The Only Way Is Essex? How does this magical discipline and philosophy differ in any way from the rapacious Thatcherite ideologies of the decade in which Grant Morrison wriggled his way to prominence?) I’m reliably informed that he has recently made the unprecedented move of expressing his dissatisfaction with the superhero industry, if only because there isn’t as much money in it as there used to be, and I imagine that there is a very strong likelihood that he will contrive to die within four to six months of my own demise, after leaving pre-dated documents testifying to the fact that he actually predeceased me.
admirers of Grant Morrison’s work would please stop reading mine, as I don’t think it fair that my respect and affection for my own readership should be compromised in any way by people that I largely believe to be shallow and undiscriminating."
Damn, seems like the bad blood between Moore and Morrison is legit.
>>83090964
God, this
And at least Batman had pretty pictures whereas Wonder Woman and Flash had Finch and fucking Booth.
>>83090693
He's black. No way he's ozymandias. Why do people think they are going to introduce the other watchmen characters anyways? Manhattan is the only one that makes sense because of his meta nature and powerset that actually make him a valuable asset for the dc multiverse. The other characters are basically products of their grounded reality.
>>83090933
I think it's the most underrated peice of writting i've read in a while. It is bretty depp
Company literally telling you that if you bought their comics during the 80s, 90s and 00s you are the problem. All those "dark" stories are shit and you have been killing DC.
Literally telling its fans they have been enjoying the wrong things. This is their thank you for showing support.
>>83091219
I really thinks this whole thing just exemplifies what's wrong with corporate owned comics.
>>83090128
Hmm, so after the Crisis has already concluded. But removed from the linear flow of time, that's not exactly evidence to disprove it...
>>83088643
Remember when everyone was hyped about the author of American Vampire taking on the main Batman title?
I feel like a fool.
>>83090964
Snyder was fine when he wasn't obsessed with the Joker.
Zero Year and Bat-Gordon run were great in my opinion.
>tfw no Prime
>>83091219
Johns has explicitely said that he doesn't blame Moore or Watchmen as much as he blames people who interpreted watchmen as "Superhero stories can only be good if they are gritty and dark"
You know, misinterpreting as you are doing right now.
>>83091179
Eh, I think Moore does have some legitimate grievances, and Morrison by his own admission was a dick to him, but it was a long time ago. Moore needs to let that shit go, though that's not really his nature, and he's only going to get worse as he ages.
>>83088342
probably no point with it being 80 pages, just wait until the rip tomorrow night
>>83091294
Reminder that his run is praised everywhere else but /co/, managed 100k+ for 51 issues, 110-120k for over 40 issues, and he is now the only star writer DC has left now that Johns is gone
>>83089459
Jenni was in JLU when the Legion hijacked it
>>83091333
Literally everyone has said this since Watchmen came out. It's not Moore's fault that idiot audiences and inferior writers looked at Watchmen and came away with "Rorschach is awesome, everyone should be like him".
>>83091344
I don't know if it was all that long ago, seeing as how Moore is 62. Regardless, one could say that Moore is unfairly holding a grudge, but that's between him and Morrison.
>>83091423
/co/ is just needlessly contrarian. I'll bet in a year or two /co/ will be looking back fondly on Snyder's run.
>>83091423
That's okay. It was still bad.
>>83090010
This meme needs to end. Kal-L is far more likely.
>>83091333
I think he's shitting on Zack Snyder in particular, since Johns has even more of a work load because of Snyder's screw ups.
>>83091512
I dunno if I'd call it the best Batman since The Dark Knight Returns, but it's pretty good in my opinion. Then again, I'm very open to new interpretations of characters, so I wasn't particularly pissed off by the new direction Mr. Freeze and the Joker were taking.
>>83091423
I'm guessing this is why they are building up Tom King at the moment. They need to replace Johns. I would think they should at least try and woe back Morrison and build up Rucka some more too.
>>83091530
Can someone actually explain the main gripes with Snyder's run? Genuinely curious.
>>83091489
The provocations Morrison admits to happened in the late 80s/early 90s. That's going on 25+ years ago now. I'd consider that a long time ago.
I agree the grudge is unfair, but Moore is the kind of person who holds grudges forever.
If only they'd make up. Can you imagine a collaboration between them?
It would lead to either universal enlightenment or destruction.
>>83091219
My least favorite part in this mess is how everyone already has an opinion on this book without reading it in full.
And these uninformed opinions will be shitposted in threads long after the fucking book comes out.
>>83091588
It was actually about Batman and is closest allies and not the extended Batfamily, also no Damian so it's bad because people here only read Morrison
>>83091595
25+ years might seem like a long time now, but it's the blink of an eye at Moore's age.
And damn right I'd like to see a collaboration between them. They might not mesh stylistically, but I'd bet top-dollar that it'd be enjoyable at the very least.
>>83091650
But only Morrison may use Damian, so that's fine.
>>83088643
>not wanting earth-2-jsa crossover where the main earth jsa teaches earth-2 guys how to be better heroes
>>83091588
My main problem is the misuse of villains (they're either unmemorable or plain boring) and anti climatic finishes (particularly Zero Year and Death of the Family).
Like, the guy can set stuff up, but he can't knock it down satisfyingly.
>>83091802
Abnett is kind of fixing E2 on its own but a crossover would be fun
>>83091849
I myself thought of that idea because I'm very much against the idea of having to destroy something to fix it. just throw a good writer on a good story and they can easily turn characters and trainwrecks around
>>83091840
Also Harper Row.
>>83091840
how was Zero Year ending anti-climatic?
>>83091840
I thought Zero Year's Riddler was fantastic and his take on Dr. Death interesting. And zero year had a ton of hype moments
I do agree on endings, but mostly he can't pull off endings because of tonal mismatch. he goes for stories that are big and bombastic all the time. its the same technique morrison used on JLA. but what morrison did right was that his endings were big. Snyder does big stories and then these weird, philosophical endings that layout the themes and ideological underpinnings of the story, but it totally goes against everything that came before it tonally.
H A P P E N I N G
>>83091967
>Steve orlando is on JSA
fuuuuccckkkk
DC did right by me. midnighter cameo when?
>>83091967
Glad I didn't waste my money pulling Supergirl when I wasn't into the idea
>>83091588
Snyder buys into this idea that The Joker has a near-supernatural presence, and takes that to a level where he can do everything like apprehend Bruce's whole family and control the fucking Justice League. It's hypercompetence that breaks suspension of disbelief.
And Snyder cannot do themes. Instead of communicating themes through story, he communicates themes by literally reading them out to you. It's annoying every time.
Even so, Court of Owls, Year Zero, and Gordon's time as Batman were all enjoyable.
>>83091967
whatever this is I'm into it
what about bart?
is he still an evil asshole who has nothing to do with the flash?
>>83088630
because Levitz almost certainly has a "I get a book" stipulation in his contract
>>83092673
Bar-Tor was never Bart and I hope they just ignore him if/when they bring him back. But they probably need to establish LoSH first anyway.
>>83091840
Personally I think the ending of endgame was pretty hype (the best issue of the entire arc, oc). Also the last 3 or 4 issues of Superheavy (Plus that epilogue issue) were also extremely fast paced and entertaining, with really high stakes and great moments. Thought I will admit that I got started pretty late on Snyder's run so I may not have experienced what you describe fully. I basically skipped Zero Year.
