Now that the dust has settled, can we agree that Rebirth is a mistake?
>>83067362
It isn't even out yet. Let alone has the "dust settled".
Their new lineup is pretty interesting to me at least, so i'm going to say it's alright.
The only thing I'm concerned about is new 52 Superman but if it's something like the Kal-L theory that will be fine.
Probably helps that I never gave a shit about the Joker or Watchmen though.
It was always a mistake.
>>83067362
I don't care about the Joker or Watchmen so Rebirth sounds alright to me
No, it really isn't, you contrarian (you)'whoring piece of shit.
Notice how i simply replied to the thread and not the OP? Stop replying to the OP you ingrates.
Sage goes in ALL FIELDS
>>83067362
>Now that the dust has settled
/tv/------>
>Taking Wonder Woman from a great new female writer and giving it to a boring old white man
It's going to befine.
The retcons are nesecary there stupid attempts at explaining it in universe are not
>>83067428
>>83067440
>Kal-L
>Joker and Watchmen
I haven't been paying attention to Rebirth. What's the word on these three things?
DC can't ever catch a fucking break, can they?
>>83067767Dr. Manhattan is responsible for new 52 retcons
There are three Jokers
New 52 Superman isn't actually Kal-El
>>83067815
JUST WHEN YOU THOUGHT DC COULDN'T GET DUMBER
>>83067362
Time passes and I start to think even more that fat comic book nerds with aspenger were a mistake. You guys are the western equivalent of otakus, and nothing is good for you.
You guys alone bring the entire media down.
>>83067815
Did we really get confirmation on this? We was that there's lightning, we saw the pin, but does that necessarily mean it's Dr. Manhattan doing shit or that SOME FORCE is breaking down the multiversal barriers including the longstanding one with Watchmen?
>>83067767
>Joker and Watchmen
The New 52 world was just a modified Pre-Flashpoint world due to Dr.Manhattan messing with time, and now the characters are realizing it and recovering some stuff.
It has been revealed that there are 3 Jokers (Design-wise, it's Golden Age, Killing Joke and End Game) although no details are given, so we don't know if it's a legacy, all three at once or something yet. There'll be a Justice League book about it, I think.
>Kal-L
Due to the previous reveal, it's also revealed to Pre-52 Clark (who avoided the Flashpoint due to not returning to his own era at the end of Convergence) that New 52 Superman isn't actually New 52 Superman (Since there's no actual "New 52" world). The Superman of the main world actually should be Pre-Flashpoint Clark.
We don't get the real identity of the New 52 Superman yet though, but some people are speculating a reborn Kal-L, since he was left dead in the pre-flashpoint world and probably could be brought back with the time manipulation stuff in order to replace the missing Superman. It'd also explain why there are two Lois, since Earth-2 Lois also was dead there alongside him. Still, the Kal-L stuff is just speculation right now. We just know that Pre-Flashpoint Clark and Lois are the actual Clark and Lois of this world, while the new ones are something else.
>>83067890
Then why is Batman younger and Superman isn't?
Huh.I didn't know it was even out yet
>>83067849
We haven't seen the panels scanned since there's no full scan, but apparently there's a narration at the end which makes it very clear that it's talking about Manhattan. He doesn't actually appear on panel though, but everywhere it's being reported that it's him, including an interview with Johns, so I don't think DC would suddenly backtrack at this point.
>>83067362
Flaspoint/New 52 was a mistake. Rebirth is just icing on top of the shit sundae.
>>83067890
Jesus Christ. This is why this multiple Earths bullshit was always a bad idea.
>>83067849
No, just a couple scanned pages and then a list of spoilers
I don't get why the three Jokers one is pissing everybody off at all
>>83067944
>>83067959
I haven't heard about this interview.
>>83067941
because that's a fake Batman too
>>83067957
Nothing wrong with multiple earths changing the nature of those universes is the problem.
>>83067979
>>83067979
Everybody is fake then
>>83067990
I feel like you missed a comma. Took me 4 reads to understand. Though I'm also not wearing my glasses.
>>83067941
Because Batman was there during the whole time manipulation stuff that changed the world, while Superman wasn't. Pre-Flashpoint Batman is sent alongside almost everyone else to their original timelines at the end of Convergence, while Superman rather than that goes to the Pre-Crisis multiverse only returning to the main Earth after Flashpoint had changed stuff.
>>83068004
Nah, you can't fake Dick Grayson. I'd never mistake that ass.
>>83068004
>>83068026
Fool, what you thought was Grayson was Red X all along!
So, wait. Does this mean Flashpoint wasn't Barry fucking up?
>>83068008
Was probably me I'm pretty shit at punctuation.
>>83068041
It means Johns is begging us to not blame him (or his characters) for the shitty half-assed reboot that came out of his event.
>>83067362
elaboration/theorizing on the whole DC Rebirth thing
Okay, so Doctor Manhattan probably made the New 52 happen, as hinted in the closing pages of Rebirth and the ending of Before Watchmen: Doctor Manhattan #4. Why? Manhattan’s not evil.
Well, as Wally says in Rebirth, the problem is that the DC heroes have lost the connections with each other. So many relationships were changed, that it made it a different world.
Considering how fascinated Doctor Manhattan is with the human mind by the end of Watchmen, wouldn’t it make sense for him to look at a world, and wonder what would happen differently if people never met? The New 52 isn’t an act of malice by Doctor Manhattan - it’s a social experiment, by a mind above human knowledge but lacking in empathy. These people don’t know each other, so X happens instead of Y - it’s exactly the kind of thing Manhattan would do. Now, because Speed Force, the original Wally (so black wally [hereby referred to as Wally52], confirmed to still exist, is likely the universe realizing that it needs a Wally West to function so they gave the powers to OGWally’s cousin who shares the same name) is here, and he remembers - and going off his conversation with Barry, the rest of the speedsters may remember soon too.
With the ground set by Manhattan not understanding what made the DC universe what it was (commentary on people not understanding what made Watchmen great), we’re set for a confrontation between the DC Universe and Manhattan, that will likely revolve around emotion than conflict because, well, Doctor Manhattan is OP - and it’ll be the best way to resolve the whole Grimdark vs Optimism argument that has been kind of ruining cape comics for the last 20 years, too. Talking about it.
>>83068041
Yes,
>>83068041
>Jonhs' favourites
>ever bein guilty of something
>>83068055
Man, as long as flashpoint gets some separation from new52, ill take it. Flashpoint is really good in a vacuum.
>>83067362
I only care about WayPatrol and Young Animal. Rebirth can be a mistake all it wants.
>>83068041
Yeah, Rebirth goes out of the way to excuse Barry. The first thing pre-flashpoint Wally says after almost dying is "It's not your fault, Barry! It's someone else who use you as a distraction!"
>>83067979
No it is like house of m.
>>83068061
So Johns can only tell this story by dialing back Dr. Manhattan's character development from Watchmen, which is better than anything he himself has ever written.
This is the saddest mining of Moore's good ideas yet.
>>83068061
"Let me make a comic about comics to debunk that other comic about comics" is so self-involved you have to wonder how anyone at DC ever expects to capture a mainstream audience again even if they do try reading the books.
>>83067990
No, everything is wrong with multiple Earths. Why give a fuck about Superman or Batman when there are hundreds of them over the universe?
>Morrison's Multiverse is less confusing than actual mainstream DC shenanigans
>>83067890
>-52 Clark is conner kent.
I hope we do not see Dr Manhattan making lots of characters explode.
>falling for a marvelshill bait thread
>>83067941
everyone in Gotham is younger, even Gordon
it makes no sense but this is Johns so he probably said "who cares about Batman"
>>83068061
Thematically, the villain could be someone who hate the legacies, also he should be very powerful at time manipulation, so probably Time Trapper. Time Trapper also symbolize "the end", which is probably why "nothing ever ends" from Watchmen is quoted. Its meaning here is probably not that different to "Batman and Robin will never die!" in Morrison's Batman run.
I think nu52 can still be the evolved pre52 as Dr. Manhattan supposedly tweaked pre52 to his whims. The Monitors, Telos, Braniac, Anti-Monitor, Time Masters, umm anyone else I guess just don't realize any of this. Now I'm trying to figure out how this all works with that diagram of the Multiverse Morrison came up with. I guess Dr. Manhattan now exists and is so omni-aware beyond the Source Wall? While Watchmen universe is still confined to an Earth that is either unknown or one outside of the "known 52" universes.
From my understanding, the new characters that are counterparts of pre52 characters aren't new, they've just been altered existing ones. I don't believe Dr. Manhattan just took away time and memories, he actually manipulated atoms/reality. He basically has Scarlet Witch reality altering powers but the kind that can affect things beyond space, time...beyond the orrery of worlds, beyond the awareness of the God Sphere, Monitor Sphere, and Limbo.
>>83067942
It's not.
>>83068061
>Why? Manhattan’s not evil.
Literally his last line in Watchmen explains it.
Fuck your dumb theory crap.
>>83067941
>>83068206
What part of time manipulation are you guys missing? It's specifically stated that 10 years were stolen, which explains younger characters and the references to events that should have happened but didn't like the Green Arrow/Black Canary relationship.
The 10 years reference is kind of odd though, since obviously it wasn't just the immediate 10 years that changed, but whatever. The basic idea is that the changes were caused by time manipulation.
>>83068443
so literally 10 years were stolen
I though only memories were being messed with and people just forgot those 10 years
it still makes no sense because all of the Batman stuff still happened
>>83067362
No.
I got into DC through nu52, and now there's this clusterfuck. Is this what it's like reading comics? Guess I might as well go back to my oriental picture books.
>>83069921
Oh don't worry this retardation won't affect most story's in fact outside of the rebirth special and some Superman and justice league down the line most things will be getting better
>>83067362
>/co/ complains about no white Wally
>gets him
>/co/ complains that Wally is in the kidflash suit and that Johns is pandering to fans
/co/ is never happy
>>83067362
>2014
OMG DC IS SO AWFUL SAVE US BASED JOHNS
>2016
REEEEEEEEE JOHNS YOU FUCKING HACK WATCHMEN IS SACRED EVEN THOUGH I SHITPOST ABOUT ALAN MOORE LITERALLY EVERY TIME HE'S MENTIONED ON HERE
>>83071646
What revisionist history
>/co/ wants white Wally
>several years pass and they get over it
>suddenly he is brought back as kid Flash in a clusterfuck event
>/co/ reacts poorly because it looks like it's gonna be a trainwreck
Everything is in the execution
>>83071646
>>83071724
More like the CERAL MEMERS always worshipped Johns and the people with doubts still have doubts
>>83067839
Those fat guys were the ones that actually BOUGHT the comics instead of criticizing them on Tumblr.
>we're gonna give fans what they want, by doing in the stupid most convoluted way possible
DC DOES IT AGAIN
>>83067362
New 52 was the mistake.
Rebirth is fixing that mistake.
>>83067455
Oh look, summer's here and newfags think things they read on ED matter in 2016
>>83067541
What does the fact that he is white have to do with anything?
Why don't you go cry on Twitter
Nu-males were a mistake
>>83068443
>>83068461
Not to mention that pre-Flashpoint Supes didn't de-age.
>>83072184
>New 52 was the mistake.
ITT: DCfriends try to reconcile themselves to yet another unfortunate turn at DC.
Ah, it seems like only yesterday I was being told how great New 52 was.
This will also be great I am sure.
It's all GREAT.
really great.
>>83067362
>Now that the dust has settled, can we agree
any thread that starts like this should have the person automatically banned and gassed
>>83072333
Nah, only people that started reading comics yesterday will tell that New 52 was great. That is, the majority of /co/ of course. Everyone with an ounce of common sense knows it was a mess with no other goal than making a quick bump in sales, but completely useless in the long run.
But make no mistake, I'm not saying this will be great. It'll be another mess. But a necessary one to restore legacy and history to the DCU.
>>83068128
This is why nobody should try to be Morrison.
>>83071724
It's the /co/ monkey paw wish.
We got what we wanted, in the worst way they could think up.
>>83067362
t. mouse
>>83067890
Why would they get rid of New52 Superman though? He's one of the more interesting characters. He's certainly better than the old fart in Lois and Clark
>>83074923
The people who actually buy Superman comics most don't agree with you.
