>The Avengers should not have supervision!
>We should work by ourslves!
>Implying that the opening act on Civil War wouldn't have been solved if Team Cap had the help of 30 S.W.A.T agents or 30 soldiers on their side.
Why Cap was so wrong in everything ever?
captain bump
>>82975015
They would have apprehended Rumlow, he would have blown up, killed at least 4 offical assigned to help the Avengers, and countless other cavilians. Cap's team handled the situation as well as anyone could have
>>82974689
Cap's big problem with supervision was that they would be told when and where to deploy, and given how countries operate that would be almost never. He would end up exactly where he started "A publicity icon".
As a self governing team they may not have as much man power and only the support of a billionaire but the level of freedom far outweighs anything else.
>>82974689
yeah, those African security personnel sure did wonders against Crossbones.
>>82974689
Because he is secretly a communist who hates all the avengers and would let them get killed at the drop of a hat by Bucky and then say "well it isn't his fault"
>>82976089
No fucking different than when he first started with the government
He is such a tool
>>82976089
Having people with the ability to destroy the world running aroind playing police and doing whatever they want should not be a thing either.
>>82976600
its a fucking comic book movie
>>82974689
>we shouldn't have supervision
>says the solider
Because the last time he did the bidding of an international consortium, it turned out to be Hydra.
>>82976641
Then don't bring politics into the table if you don't want logic.
I was more upset that Tony was so easily roped into being guilted because of MUH SON
Look at it this way-
Say Russia or China decided to create its own superhero team. They give them an unlimited budget, fancy high tech and superpowers, and the ability to travel to every other country while ignoring those country's laws.
>>82976685
So the lesson is not to trust people ever?
>>82976734
They were just trying to move the movie along
No one wants a 20 minute scene of that shit
>>82976764
No, the lesson - which Cap articulated clearly - is that the Avengers' judgment is better than a bunch of internationalist bureaucrats who may or may not be minions of an evil cult.
>>82976683
>says the solider who became a soldier by not listening to numberous rejections from authorities.
>says the solider who got the rank of Captain by disobeying orders
>says the solider who went rogue to save his best friend since 1945
>says the solider who found out the last people he took orders from were literal facists
Captain America was never a good soldier.
I thought supervision was something to do with either vision or a new superpower for whatever reason. Break from the internet for me!
>>82976739
are you claiming that the Avengers were made by and funded by the US government?
Are Hawkeye and Black Widow the only super spies of that caliber in the world? Why doesn't SHIELD just assign like 30 super spies to work under the Avengers?
>>82978260
because SHIELD doesn't exist anymore remember? It works in the shadows now and they can't know Coulson is alive because Whedon is a a little bitch.
>>82978260
Depends how you mean. Most of SHIELD are shown to be adequately trained, but the exceptionally skilled or capable like Widow and Hawkeye are the result of extremes or chance so it would be unlikely for them to exist naturally.
>>82978204
They were.
SHIELD started the Avengers project. Now you can say that they're international, but let's face it.
The representative from Kenya doesn't have much say on what SHIELD does.
>>82978414
SHIELD introduced the individual members, nothing more. They went to New York in a hijacked Quinjet in direct defiance of SHIELD authority.
>>82978414
They may have been made by the US Government but they only worked with them for about a day. Cap worked with SHIELD for a bit but then stopped when he learned that it was secretly run by Hydra.
which is the crux of Caps reasoning to not wanting to answer to any government, because lets face it.
They could always be run by Hydra.
Why didn't Captain America just stick Black Panther to a strong magnet?
>>82978587
is vibranium even magnetic?
>>82978475
They still created the team, it's their fault for not exerting more control from the beginning.
>>82978317
>It works in the shadows now
How do you keep a giant flying aircraft carrier in the shadows?
>>82978823
that wasn't SHIELD. they fixed it up but it was given to The Avengers for them to use.
>>82976811
But why should we, citizens, trust them?
>>82978533
>Hydra
>running the UN
Nigga, Hydra are too competent to run the UN
>>82979157
I don't know about that. they kinda ran SHIELD for a long time.
>>82979021
because they've done a decent job so far. as much as Ross and the others tried to spin the various disasters as handled poorly, the Avengers have done a fantastic job of containing and thwarting world threatening disasters.
>>82974689
MOVIE STREAM
http://swimelodeon.com/
>"MUH FREEDOM TO DO WHAT'S RIGHT, TONI!!!1!"
Captain America is a great guy, but he's a fucking freeze-dried kid from Brooklyn who took an ice bath at the end of World War 2 and just thawed out a couple years ago.
In his last movie, he literally had "Learn about the Cold War" on his to-do list. ("Berlin Wall: Up and Down", specifically) Are foreign nations like Nigeria, Thailand, etc. really supposed to just trust that he and his buddies will be able to instinctively know how to properly navigate the incredible tricky and delicate world of geopolitics 0 guidance, supervision, or regional advisement?
>>82979157
>UN
>competent
>>82979391
>missing the point
>>82979382
if they don't like it they can just kill him
>>82979382
Steve actually has an enhanced nervous system and psychology, and not just intelligence like Tony or Vision, so yes I'd say they should trust him.
It's suggested since The First Avenger that he's constantly processing information with an eidetic memory, but his humility has been retained throughout all of that experience. To say he's learning from what he's been through and seen is an understatement.
>>82979788
Doesn't he have to make like a million fucking calculations a second just to throw his damn shield?
>>82976734
BLM is important bro. You cant ignore that stuff anymore. Marvel did the right thing.
>>82977075
Neither was Chesty Puller. The bad ones are always the best ones.
>>82978414
I'm pretty sure President Obama has Fury's number.
>>82978619
>The Vibranium core has got a magnetic field, that's what's keeping the rock together,
-Age of Ultron
>>82976541
Yeah he didn't like it then either
>>82979391
That was the joke.
>>82977075
Not the perfect soldier
but
a good
man
For most of the threads people agree with Steven to varying degrees. The most common logic given is that the accords are deficient of logic and guilt tripping the heroes of the world by showing 70 odd sum deaths from what came to save literally billions of lives is retarded. Every incident they showed except the African situation, involved millions upon millions, to the entire planets population (billions), safety and health. Most people did note that some kind of lax supervision could be justified, but the accords were idiotic. Who has that strawpoll blowing Tonyfags out of the water?
>>82981141
>Chesty Puller
Dude was an asshole that wrote his own awards. Same with McArthur. Now, Smedley Butler, there is a god damn hero. Dude received the medal of honor twice, achieved the highest rank that existed at the time, wrote a book about how oligarchies a shit, and even then he was still approached by the Business Coup to overthrow FDR. You know what he did? Fucking took the letter and presented it to congress to show they had literal fascists plotting to take over America.
>>82976089
>freedom
I'm glad this is never lost on cap. Freedom is always the bottom line with him.
>>82987929
Well, except of freedom of 115 countries of the world who do not want him or his help. Fuck their decisions, democracy and freedom. If Cap decides they need help, they will get their fucking help, no matter what they think about it.
Cap was right.
Deal with it, Starkfags.
>>82974689
Cap claimed they were being manipulated by a third party, aka Zemo
He was right.
Cap also didn't like that they woulnd't be able to act where they deemed necessary if the UN had to approve them
Ross didn't even consider the possibility that a third party might had been involved, which would have allowed Zemo to do whatever the fuck he wanted if every avenger signed the accords
It's obvious that Cap's obsession with Bucky is pretty much insanity, but between those 2 and what happened on TWS I don't blame him for not trusting anybody to supervise the avengers
>>82988074
It's Ross. He's basically a wanna-be supervil without powers, so he uses his military might to enact his will. He's a consistent villain.
I have problems, I read supervision like it's a superpower like heat vision.
>>82974689
Is Catptain America.
Like America they think they know better and no one should tell them anything while ignoring that they own their success to other people.
>vibranium shield made with mineral from Africa = slavery
>super serum = white privilege
>>82988216
Ding Ding Ding!
>>82988216
I love that moment in the trailer when they talk:
>If we do not accept supervision, we are no better than the bad guys.
>It's not the way I see it...
>...
>...
>...He is my friend!
Cap has no moral ground except muh friendship.
>>82988242
Actually from my experience Europeans tend to side with Stark and Americans usually take Caps side. I need to make a thread or something to check my theory.
>>82988169
Ross is what?
>>82984707
>>82974689
how they handle exploding man?
>>82988311
I am from Russia and I for TeamCap.
>>82974689
Cykefag detected.
>>82988311
Poland, Team Stark
>>82988311
Switzerland. Neutral.
>>82988311
America. and I side with Tony
>>82988758
>guy from a pseudo-dictatorship is pro Team Cap
Not surprised, have you paid your respect to based Putin yet today?
>>82989078
What?
>>82978533
>which is the crux of Caps reasoning to not wanting to answer to any government, because lets face it.
>They could always be run by Hydra.
Well shit, then, let's just ignore all laws forever. They could be a secret HYDRA plot.
It would be way more likely and easier for the Avengers themselves to all be HYDRA than the governments of 117 countries (at which point HYDRA would already rule the world anyway). Cap is insisting that he be the exception to the rules everyone else plays by, that his judgement should override all others because he's always right. You never, EVER want to give anyone that kind of authority.
>>82988169
Ross did nothing wrong.
>>82990196
Cap isn't saying that he should be the ultimate authority, but that heroes should be allowed to decide for themselves whether or not they want to act on a certain incident.
>>82974689
he's an senile old man
>>82974689
I'm pretty sure the powers of a lot of avengers include supervision.
>>82976600
But it is, and it's name is the USA. Since it actually is a very real thing, what hypothetical solution do you have for such an issue?
>>82978698
They, as in the government, as in hydra?
>villains make joke superheroes to make the people feel safe
>also get to play the innocent card when the good guys don't want to do what the bad guys say
>"bad guys didn't have enough control over the good guys"
>>82990578
That's the same thing. He wants his decisions to override all other laws.
>Forget the law, let us do what has to be done. You can trust us because we've protected you so many times.
Exactly how HYDRA almost took over the world.
>>82976089
There's this thing called sovereign countries.
>>82978204
They are and you know it, they go from mirrikan to international all the time and international always mean pro murrika
>>82987027
And literally the first movie is their fault just like the second, they contained their own mess
>>82988169
How is that any different than Steve invading a country to enact his will?
>>82989078
Kek Americans are really this ignorant?
>>82988758
Muh tovarisch. Bidlo follow team Stark only because of Robert "down here" Jr. without getting the point ofFirst Avenger: Another War
....How come they didn't have Vision with them during the opening scene? He seems like the type of guy who could've phased through Rumlow and fucked up the bombs wiring or something? Or maybe, in a really freaky scene, he grabs Rumlow and starts to phase, pulling him and the bomb down into the Earth. We don't see what happens, we just see the ground shake a bit and then Vision calmly floats back up from the ground, small smile on his face.
>>82991291
Cause it looked like it was some kind of field test for Wanda
>>82991325
Well that's just stupid, they should've at least had a couple more people in the shadows in case shit went bad, which it did.
Seriously, why wasn't Vision there? If it was a field test wouldn't he have benefited from it too? He's perfect for espionage shit, so him just floating around and phasing through walls would be really fucking helpful.
>A supersoldier from the 1940s who can't adapt to modern life and who's best friend is history's most notorious evil assassin
>A weapons dealer who created a robot who destroyed an entire country and almost the entire human race
>A robot created by the robot who tried to exterminate the entire human race
>A guy who turns into an unstoppable, city-destroying monster whenever his heart rate gets too high
>A longtime member of the organization who nearly took over the world by claiming to be protectors
>Same as above, but also engineered to be a remorseless killing machine from birth.
>An alien king who's brother tried to take over the world
>A former HYDRA member with godlike power, who helped a robot nearly wipe out humanity, and knowingly sent a monster to attack a city full of innocent people
TRUST US
WE KNOW WHAT'S BEST FOR YOU
>>82987969
But those countries could all secretly be hydra
>>82991384
But they saved us from the robot they created!
>>82991384
I'd rather trust them than Hydra, senile lunatic who created Abomination and guys who thought that nuking New York > 74 people in casualties.
>>82991384
I'd rather trust them than the UN
>>82991531
The first and last aren't the UN.
Ross doesn't have absolute control, and claiming he created the Abomination is reaching. He gave a highly decorated soldier Captain America powers. Said soldier went rogue and injected himself with Hulk blood.
>>82991028
With or without Loki someone would have invaded. Thor has no control over is brother.
>>82991641
>With or without Loki someone would have invaded.
What do you base this on?
>>82990756
>Hey! Stop invading our borders and imposing your will by saving all of our people from disaster!
>Hey! Why didn't you stay on our borders and help relief efforts even though you're probably exhausted from fighting aliens or ultra powerful robots?! We're going to blame you for literally all the destruction and casualties for not staying on our borders for an indeterminate amount of time to recover a bunch of dead bodies from rubble and rebuild cities with tons of buildings and roads.
>>82991900
>Hey! Stop invading our borders and imposing your will by saving all of our people from disaster!
I'm sure the US military thinks the same thing when people complain about all the collateral damage and civilian casualties.
>>82991900
Disaster they created.
>>82991641
Loki attacking earth was Thor's fault. Nick fury weaponozing. Shit was the thing that alerted the aliens
>>82991945
Unlike the US military, The Avengers don't stay on foreign borders forcing democracy on other nations. If the US military were there to provide armed forces to help fight their enemies, I doubt other nations would have a problem with that. It's the occupation and world policing that foreign nations have a problem with.
>>82992147
The only disaster they created was Ultron. What would you have had them do? Sit down at the Compound during a time-sensitive invasion of Sokovia while a UN panel tries to weigh the pros and cons of sending the Avengers somewhere else? There would have been much MORE casualties, not less.
>>82992745
If the Avengers just answered any nation that called for their help, then there wouldn't be a problem.
But they also hop into other countries without permission and start fights with bad guys that nobody asked them to. When collateral damage is caused in the process, people are understandably upset.
>>82976739
But here's the thing, despite everyting the U.S. does, they aren't nearly as bad as the Chinks or Ruskies.
>>82992914
those countries should have done a better job of kicking Hydra out, then
>>82974689
>people are ACTUALLY siding with Iron Man on this
It's not fucking real life we're talking about here. It's the uncorruptable morals of superheroes and if Stark is so scared of the damage he's doing he can just work for the govt like Rhoades is already doing.
I liked how nobody could argue against cap when he said the safest hands were still their own. All the opposition said at that point was "W-well it'll just happen anyway"
Tonyfags in this movie were insufferable. Cap was right the whole way through
>>82993176
>It's the uncorruptable morals of superheroes
Uncorruptable heroes like Wanda "Hotel Rwanda" Maximoff, Ultron Jr., or Natasha "Designed to be a heartless killer" Romanoff?
Tony isn't just afraid of the damage he causes himself, but the damage all Avengers can cause.
>>82993036
Not really. At all. You are not the good guys.
>>82993218
>"We may not be perfect, but the safest hands are still our own."
>>82992914
Those nations aren't giving any calls because they don't even know the threat is there. And again, by the time nations would respond and give permission to The Avengers to go into their nations to fight these threats, it would be too late. Nobody asked them to fight these enemies because they didn't even know these enemies existed. Who else would people want to respond to superpowered villains who are world-ending threats?
Most of the collateral damage isn't even caused by The Avengers. It's caused by their enemies and the people they are there to stop. Why is all of the collateral damage attributed to The Avengers when there is footage showing who is causing most of the destruction?
>>82993437
>Those nations aren't giving any calls because they don't even know the threat is there. And again, by the time nations would respond and give permission to SHIELD to go into their nations to fight these threats, it would be too late. Nobody asked them to fight these enemies because they didn't even know these enemies existed. And that's why Project Insight is a good idea!
>>82993437
>Why is all of the collateral damage attributed to The Avengers when there is footage showing who is causing most of the destruction?
The footage shows Hulk destroying a bunch of shit, and an entire country that was destroyed due to the actions of 2-3 Avengers.
It's not like anyone every claims that the Avengers aren't doing good and are just destroying things. Ross literally opens his speech by saying that the world owes the Avengers an unpayable debt. He just also makes it clear that people don't fully trust them anymore and need reassurance.
>>82989078
>>guy from a pseudo-dictatorship is pro Team Cap
But Cap is pretty liberal as patriotic superhero ever could be.
>Not surprised, have you paid your respect to based Putin yet today?
Putin is meme, and if you don't embrace meme i.e. using benefits of meme magic you just lose. So yep, every time I read 2ch I keking of Vladimir Vladimirovich as taking benefits from it.
>>82976734
Tony always had a ping of guilt for his past fuck ups and direction of the world as a whole. Its the one consistent message through out all the films (yes even IM3 and AoU).
She may have been the tipping point but it isn't like those accords just magically appeared the next day either.
>>82991075
Steve doesn't fund rogue experiments and then try to lock the subjects up when it doesn't turn out as planned.
>>82974689
I like how they tried to blame the Avengers for Ultron even though it was squarely on Stark's shoulders and nobody else.
I mean you could blame Banner but Tony would probably just start poking him all the time until he hulked out and destroyed everything.
I mean, if anything they should have been concerned with Stark and all the shit he's done. Damn near everything he says is objectively wrong and yet everyone in the MCU thinks he's right.
>>82990420
Except for, y'know, Hulk, ignoring intel that doesn't suit his purposes, endangering millions of lives on a consistent basis, abusing his daughter, backstabbing his family...
>>82993505
Project Insight was designed to neutralize criminals BEFORE they even committed any crimes. And it was based on algorithms by Armin Zola.
The Avengers respond to crimes already in progress and most importantly, don't operate based on a HYDRA agent's algorithms.
>>82993588
The amount of stuff the Hulk was destroying was peanuts to was that giant snake alien monster and the Chitauri army was destroying. Not to mention the destruction that would've been caused by the nuke sent to Manhattan.
The problem with going by public trust is that people seemed to want completely contradictory things which is what I was highlighting. Some want no occupation at all, while others want them to help out after world ending crises. The public is made of varying people with varying opinions and no UN permission council is going to change that.
>>82988319
You've never read any comics before, have you? Ross is pretty much always an antagonist.
>>82993898
Ultron is as much Wanda's fault as Tony's. And guess what: They're both Avengers.
>>82993985
>Guy injects himself with an experimental serum without permission
>Turns into a monster and kills several people
>Guy tries to arrest him
>"LEAVE HIM ALONE YOU BIG BULLY!"
>>82988328
It's okay anon, it's hard to keep Cap and Stark's ethnic, 1st film conscience characters straight.
>>82991894
Someone would come for the cube.
>>82976541
You realize in WW2 he became recognized as a hero by leading an unsanctioned 1 man mission against orders
>>82995740
>Someone would come for the cube.
They didnt knew it was on earth.
>>82987969
>democracy
o I am laffin
Yeah put it to s vote, would most people rather be saved by the Avengers or by a fucking nuke
>>82993898
>I like how they tried to blame the Avengers for Ultron even though it was squarely on Stark's shoulders and nobody else.
Banner, Tony, Wanda, and Vision.
>>82991945
Maybe when the US military actually saves someone from disaster they can start making the same case.
Or when they stop bombing buildings that are suspected to have targets inside them. No matter how you slice it, the people saved/collateral damage ratio isn't even comparable to the Avengers.
>>82995923
I'm not trading the sovereignty of my country over some murrikans getting nuked by other murrikans, also there was no need for a nuke.
The aliens could be killed by HANDGUNS. Let them die.
>>82996081
But the avengers havent save anyone they or nick fury didnt put on risk.
>>82995910
Thanos did.
>>82996161
>they or nick fury didnt put on risk.
and lo, the goalposts move
>>82992198
Nick Fury's not an Avenger.
>Loki attacking earth was Thor's fault.
Literally how
>>82996292
Nick Fury is part of the avengers. Him, hawkeye and Black widow were the 3 first parts of the avengers.
>>82996001
>Wanda is to blame for Tony retrieving a staff that they were explicitly on a mission to retrieve and using it to finish a project he had already started beforehand
>Vision somehow to blame for Ultron even though he didn't fuckibg EXIST yet when Ultron was created
>>82993302
It's like people who post this didn't even watch the damn cartoon.
The regular ass Justice League flew into foreign countries without asking permission. They deliberately opposed the law when the Thanagarians took over, and when they were in that alternate future where Vandal Savage ruled the earth. They attacked a secure government facility to rescue the Question.
On the other hand, the Justice Lords killed a head of state, suspended all elections, appointed a puppet president, and threatened anyone who dared protest against them. You are literally retarded m8
>>82976707
It's not politics.
It's fictional cape politics. Just like inaccurate fictional castle politics that you find in things like Throne Games.
>>82996944
And that works well in most DC universes since the Justice league have secret identities or are aliens: that means they have no reason to obbbbey the laws of one country. They deal with the UN as equals.
Rogers is a murrikan soldier, Stark is a well known american politician, wanda has no secret identity, hawkeye and russian whore are well known american servicemen.
Rogers can't pretend to invade a country and not face their military. just like when he attacked the german police that shit can detonate a war. But the MCU is a universe made for children
>>82998336
>it's ok if you have a secret identity
So can we just stop pretending this has anything to do with accountability?
>>82974689
>The Avengers should not have supervision!
Reading this post made me wonder which of them has the power of super vision, then wonder what the fuck super vision was, followed by finally getting it.
>>82995090
Yeah, you don't read comics, I see. That's the "movie" version of what happened.
>>82989021
>>82996464
Wanda not only let Tony take the scepter, but intentionally messed with his mind so that he'd do something destructive with it, and helped Ultron for most of his plan.
>>83000594
This isn't the comics.
>>82996944
Did YOU watch the rest of the cartoon? Because they later deal with the fact that the Justice League acting as unelected, unstoppable world police is understandably worrying everyone.
