so, everyone in this show is an asshole?
Yup.
Just like in real life.
Mr. Peanut butter and Todd literally did nothing wrong.
Todd isn't. Princess isn't. Peanutbutter isn't. Charlotte isn't. The billionaire leopard isn't. Vincent Adultman isn't. The monkey at the end isn't.
>>82898281
princess did take advantage of herb's funeral for business opportunities.
>>82898281
Oh, and Wanda isn't, either.
>>82898281
The billionaire leopard, St. Clair, is a high-functioning sociopath working in charity.
He actually does not care about those dying children in Cordovia. The only reason he's helping them is because they were annoying him and he was concerned about his legacy.
St. Clair destroys Diane's ideology. Diane talks a big game about how "a person is only as good as their actions", but when she sees St. Clair doing good things for all the wrong reasons she realizes that she was wrong all along, and that she's not better than the people she judged. He's important.
>>82898513
That's the seed for a hell of a discussion...
If a sociopath's actions result in net more good than those of a well-meaning but less accomplished saint, is the sociopath a more valuable person?
>>82898009
Almost everybody is an asshole if you catch them at the right moment.
>>82898281
Vincent Adultman strung along Princess and lied about his child to her.
Princess takes advantage of everyone around her.
Sebastian St. Clair doesn't mind seeing children die.
Maybe only Mr. Peanutbutter and Charlotte aren't assholes. Just well-meaninged people who make mistakes occasionally.
>>82898624
and don't forget todd
>>82898624
Mr. PB is an asshole. He throws a huge party for his wife when she specifically tells him not to, and fucks Todd over on Disney Land, and makes Bojack look like an ass on TV and then plays the bigger man by forgiving him. He's a nihilist who revels in self gratification at the occasional expense of others.
>>82898009
Not everyone, but Bojack is. He has no redeeming qualities and learns nothing from his actions. Which leaves a bad taste in your mouth and makes the whole show seem pointless.
>>82898812
I am forever wondering: Is he really, really stupid? Or really, really smart...
>>82898349
>Hey BoJack, lose to Daniel Radcliffe even though he and Mr. Peanutbutter keep ripping on you. It's good for my business.
>Hey BoJack, reign in Diane even though she's attacking a rapist that has escaped justice for the last 30 years. It's bad for my business.
>Wanda
>not a cunt
>>82898768
I don't know where to place Todd.
I can't put my finger on the guy; he exists but not as a dynamic character like the rest of the cast. I guess the closest comparison is that Todd is the Horatio to Bojack's Hamlet.
>>82898812
>He's a nihilist who revels in self gratification at the occasional expense of others.
You're giving him way too much credit. He's an attractive, charming but unintelligent egocentrist.
>>82898863
He learns from his mistakes... he just fails every time when he tries to be better.
>>82898910
Mr. PeanutButter is totally self-aware of his nihilism
>>82898209
>Just like in real life.
haha people believe this
>>82898603
Me and some friends got into a similar argument about some Youtube fag, The guy bought a load of homeless people mcdonalds and filmed it as an uplifting piece.
The argument revolved around the fact the guy filmed it at all to simply get props and whether if the piratical good it did excused the clear lack of moral good
PB is well meaning, but often unaware of other people's troubles or demands, which makes him look selfish at times.
Princess Carolyn has a fair share of moments where she did some outright bad shit, but more often than not she was a caring person under a tough exterior shell.
Wanda was the only character in the show who wasn't an outright asshole, she was just clueless since she spent some 30 or so years in a coma and woke up in a whole different world.
>>82898896
>Hey BoJack, lose to Daniel Radcliffe even though he and Mr. Peanutbutter keep ripping on you. It's good for my business.
They were acting as part of a script and Bojack's feelings couldn't take it. By that logic, it's equally assholish to hire someone to play the antagonist in a movie.
>>82898910
No, that guy is right.
Mr. Peanutbutter is a nihilist in the classical sense. A lot of people associate a nihilism with the postmodern angst of Jean Baudrillard or the broken hypodermic syringes of William S. Burroughs, but nihilism is really just a rejection that there is intrinsic worth.
Mr. Peanutbutter ascribes worth in subjectively rather than objectively. He's found balance in himself and in others because since is life is meaningless, he's free to insert his own meaning and his own sense of self-worth onto others.
That's classical nihilism.
>>82899011
This is pretty much consequentialism vs virtue
>>82898281
>Todd isn't.
Freeloader and probably a junkie, certainly an out of control substance abuser.
>Princess isn't.
Pedophile/desperate idiot. Also a Hollywood agent. Have you learned nothing?
>Peanutbutter isn't.
He's selfish. He's incredibly selfish. Being polite about it doesn't mean he's not selfish.
>Charlotte isn't.
Yet. Wait for season 3.
>The billionaire leopard isn't.
There are no billionaire non-assholes. You don't get rich by being nice.
>Vincent Adultman isn't.
He's a liar blagging his way through life by taking advantage of a desperate asshole.
>The monkey at the end isn't.
I can't remember the monkey, but those little assholes throw shit like all the time.
>>82899119
It's a script purposely written to make Bojack look bad.
>>82899250
>Pedophile/desperate idiot
Vincent Adultman isn't a child (or three), we had a third of an episode last season establishing this
>>82898975
But that's what I think about the world.
wait
>>82899250
>>82898281
The only reason that the Jogging Monkey isn't an asshole yet is because hasn't been in the show enough.
Nobody stays good in Bojack's world.
>>82899282
Yeah just like how the script made Margot Martindale look like a homicidal maniac and the real Margot Martindale who voiced her didn't get all whiny about it.
>>82899435
I loev Margot Martindale.
I always liked pointing her out in all the character roles she does whenever I watch something. When I saw her doing a speaking role in Bojack Horseman I was pleased as punch.
>>82898896
A cunt. But not an asshole.
>>82898513
One could argue that St Clair does care, or is at least aware of the goodness of his deeds, but he knows publicity will draw public awareness to these issues more than "simple" idealistic gestures.
>>82898863
>and learns nothing from his actions.
But he is learning. It's a slow and painful process, but he's getting there, one day at a time.
>>82898863
I'm not a fan of the comic, but the name does come to mind as a phrase:
"A lesson is learned, but the damage is irreversible."
>>82900269
I always got this impression that Bojack's going down the "one step forward, two leaps back" route. It's pretty depressing to watch.
>>82899435
Comparing Margot Martindale to mere humans is making the real mistake here. Bojack is just a man. He isn't a character actor like her.
>>82898281
No, Todd may not be an asshole necessarily, but he's a clingy loser with no job who basically forced himself into Bojack's life and doesn't contribute much but friendship, which is nice enough for Bojack's sake I suppose, but he's basically a slacker coasting by and mooching hard.
Princess is greedy and opportunistic, occasionally taking advantage of other people, but isn't as bad as other characters I guess. But her job is that of a Hollywood agent, and you kind of have to be a bit of a dick to work as one of those.
Peanut Butter is probably the nicest character on the show, if dumb as a sack of bricks.
Charlotte isn't, you're right.
I don't remember the billionaire leopard, though I can't imagine that person being nice.
>>82899250
>Freeloader
Only because Bojack kept sabotaging any of his attempts to not be one.
Was he an asshole?
>>82903214
How else do you think he got rectal cancer?
>>82898009
Welcome to Hollywoo kid.
>>82898513
>SHUT UP CHILDREN!!
>>82903214
Regardless of how hard you get dicked over, no one stays that bitter forever without being some kind of asshole.
>>82903214
Yes. He put his friend's career on the line so he could have his way, and when his friend chose job security over Herb's pride, they cut each other off and acted like the other was the one who should have tried to reconcile about it. Then, as he's dying of cancer, he calls the man he's barely talked to since their falling out just to say "I hate you."
>>82898603
This is the seed that justifies capitalism.
I would prefer to talk about which is more moral rather than which is more valuable. All sorts of virtue goes unvalued
>>82904086
He didn't stay bitter though. He accepted Bojack into his home, fed him and was cordial and pleasant. He only rejected Bojack's cheap attempt to win virtue points with a meaningless apology.
>>82899353
is that ian? fuck I love him.
What is the best episode of this thing ?
>>82911659
Escape from LA
>>82903798
That's one of my favourite lines
>>82898281
>Todd isn't
correct.
>Princess isn't
I felt bad how she completely rekt that other agent who had feelings for her.
>>82914566
>I felt bad how she completely rekt that other agent who had feelings for her.
Were you just not paying attention or what?
>>82898513
>St. Clair destroys Diane's ideology. Diane talks a big game about how "a person is only as good as their actions", but when she sees St. Clair doing good things for all the wrong reasons she realizes that she was wrong all along, and that she's not better than the people she judged.
Holy shit, I never picked up on that. Is this just fanwank, or was the show too deep for me?
>>82915897
I thought it was very clear that the point of Sebastian was that "you are not supposed to like this character".
>One thing you notice about Sebastian Saint Claire is that he talks about himself a lot.
>"Look over there. That's the hospital that i helped build, and there is a statue of me building the hospital, and there is a painting of me posing for the statue of me building the hosiptal."
>"Allright, let's drag some bodies! KINKO! Oh right...."
He is based on Bono for fuck's sake. I honestly don't know have anyone can like that character.
>>82898995
Most hollywood types are huge assholes who treat people around them like shit with few exceptions. Remember when justin beiber spat on his fans because he felt like it?
>>82898873
Some people prefer to live as simply as possible and always keep a few cards up their sleeve, do you think mr peanutbutter made it as far as he did in hollywoo as a real airhead?
>>82915911
No, I got that he was supposed to be a bad person, and I got that Diane was using charity as an escape after the whole rape accusation stuff, and I knew that she resorted to bumming off Bojack when the charity stuff turned out to be horrifying and she had nowhere to go.. but the fact that Sebastian crushed her "good deeds make you a good person" stuff had never ocurred to me.
>>82916132
I guess I just haven't been keeping up on all the Bieber news
