All right. That one worked on me.
>that specific shade of Polygon-esque pink
Very nice attention to detail
Does the new Doom have a story though or is it just mindlessly going from point A to point B shooting everything in the way?
>>82885305
>doom needs a story
>>82885305
>badass doomguy
>in hell
What more do you want?
PA's got the pull to really rip into these games sites like they deserve. I wonder why they never just go right for the jugular.
>>82885305
There's a bit of a story, the main story beat isDoomguy is the same Doomguy from the original games, who got encased in Hell and is awoken by the UAC to stop another invasion of Mars
>>82885305
here's an excerpt
>>82885357
Because if they did, the gaming journalism profession may collapse entirely.
>>82885401
...good?
>>82885319
>>82885355
>>82885396
I understand. Old people have difficulty following plots.
>>82885435
Video games don't need stories.
>>82885435
The plot is this.
>There's Demons.
>Kill the fuck out of them
>>82885453
>X doesn't need stories
that's true for pretty much everything, doesn't mean that must be the case
thank god Japanese devs aren't as autistic and aren't afraid to put stories and put effort on them for their games
>>82885481
Doom doesn't need a story.
You shoot demons. It's fun. That's all it needs to be.
>>82885278
>those noses
It's been years and years since I've read this, but now people are posting it on /co/, and I see how the art has changed. Those noses freak me out. It looks ridiculous. Hard to believe that their early comics had those shadow-only mang noses.
>>82885357
I mean, look at this fucker. He looks like a koala.
>>82885543
People will tell you otherwise, but PA's been draw by ghost artists for at least the last few years.
>>82885527
Oh I agree on that. Not all games need stories but I don't see the problem if some games want to put one in it.
>>82885555
don't they draw a comic on stage at every PAX
Why the fuck is he playing it on a console?
>>82885582
And I'm sure Jim Davis could fire out a quick sketch of Garfield if you asked him, but if you think he's drawing every daily strip you got a screw loose.
These guys are still at it, huh?
They get money from throwing PAX, right? Why not just... do that exclusively instead?
>>82885411
All of gaming journalism. Even the good parts.
Imagine if every news company suddenly went under. Seems good at first, but then we get a power vaccuum.
>>82885590
I played it on a console and it was great. Don't know how I would be able to cope with KB+M.
>>82885643
They do it as a hobby.
>>82885668
>Don't know how I would be able to cope with KB+M.
What's that 'sposed to mean? You don't know how to play games with KB+M or something?
>>82885668
>All of gaming journalism. Even the good parts.
>gaming journalism
>good parts
There's nothing gaming journalism offers that you can't get from thousands of Youtubers, but without the vitriol and needless politicizing.
>>82885668
I don't think you can sink the games journalism industry because it's not really much of an industry in the first place
I mean sure, the right string of events could destroy big sites like Kotaku or IGN or Gamespot, but you'd still have weirdos on Youtube talking ignorantly about random shit, you'd still have eggheads writing overwrought thinkpieces on their personal blogs, and you'd still have people who think they're part of TMZ peddling in rumor and secrecy in exchange for desperate cash
It's not like there's an actual product being produced and distributed here. It's just a bunch of clowns talking about their hobby. You can't get rid of that kind of thing just by taking away publisher-side pre-launch promotional considerations.
>>82885722
>I mean sure, the right string of events could destroy big sites like Kotaku
HULKAMANIA.
>>82885305
"Story in a game is like a story in a porn movie. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important."
>>82885543
>>82885555
For years, the artist has publicly stated how he likes to change up his style and tends to get swept up in emulating certain artists. Most people remember when he was on a kick with something like the Kim Possible art director's style (if I recall directly), because that's when they made it really big.
There's literally no evidence it's ghost draw aside from "but the art's so bad now, man! It must be ghost artists, there's no other reasonable explanation!"
>>82885700
>Youtube
>without the vitriol
>>82885765
But you do, extremely rarely, find games with good stories. I've never gotten emotional over a porn movie.
>>82885772
Either way, I think it looks terrible. It's not such a great departure from his old style... except those noses.
>>82885807
Meme lover made me cry.
>but
Yeah, but what the guy I quoted (you know who it is) means that there is no need to make it something more than a background, that was Doom's policy.
You are a marine sent to kill demons and fuck shit up.
That's it.
>>82885765
>Repeating a quote that was only relevant in the 90's when it was said
ayyy lmao
>>82885278
Cute, but... they Do know they're millennials themselves, right?
These statements keep popping up, and I don't know whether they really believe that the term refers to people born after 1995 instead of before, or it's one of those "White guys amirite" scenarios like pic related
>>82885853
Wil Wheaton is 43 years old.
>>82885852
>arcadey "fun for fun" games are over
The fact that they still succeed proves you are wrong.
There is a market.
>b-but muh
Look if you are so simple minded you don't get that there is space for more than one type of game, or even artistical expression in general, fuck off.
>>82885892
Walking simulators still suck.
>>82885900
>walking simulators
Bro, stop.
>>82885878
Don't know if Wheaton shits on millennials; 's okay if he does, since he's not one. I meant general statements in which you criticize a demographic you obviously belong to
>>82885853
I'd say they could claim to be gen x
>>82885765
"Story in a movie is like a story in a porno. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important."
>>82885853
>that pic
Y'know.
I think I understand. The need for a word like 'cuck'.
It's defeatist sycophantic asshole brought down to 1 syllable.
>>82885918
No, that picture of Wheaton is 100% not meant to be ironic. He's being genuine.
>>82885853
they.. aren't? they are Gen X'ers.
>>82885928
So you are saying tetris needs a deep plot to entertain you?
Games are fundamentally different from movies.
If you have no idea what the fuck you are on about just shut up.
>m-minecraft needs a plot
It could have one, but think about the amount of people who just don't care.
>>82885928
Harmony Korine built his entire career on movies without stories!
But I don't wanna sit here and discuss the merits of Trash Humpers and Gummo.
>>82885937
Will Wheaton is what happens when your only claim to fame is playing an universally hated character.
It's only been in recent years that people have been saying that Wesley wasn't a total piece of shit, but to me it seems like the typical reverse backlash. Kind of like how a lot of people are saying Enterprise is actually a good show. It isn't, and Wesley isn't a good character. Both had their moments, yes, but when you get down to it, both are still mostly crap.
And Wheaton has been milking that reputation. No wonder he's fucked up. He starred alongside Patrick fucking Stewart, LeVar Burton who already had two BIG roles by that point, even Dwight Schulz who was Murdock on the A-Team. And there you are, as a mediocre child actor, being thrust into the spotlight every other day, and hated for it.
It's kind of easy to forget how much above his level everyone else on Star Trek TNG was. But you even had guest roles with actors who would turn out to be famous. There's one Wesley episode where he's now completely overshadowed by the fact that the other guy is Dr. Kelso from Scrubs.
>>82885919
>>82885953
Right, my bad. Thought they were around their mid-thirties or so
>>82885765
"People who use quotes as arguments should be dragged out on the street and shot in the head".
>>82886076
that wouldn't matter either Millenials aren't in their mid 30's
>>82886183
Well, yes they are; that's the issue. I know once enough people start misusing a term it kinda *stops* being misused, but the original meaning of "millennial" is what it is.
>>82886076
stop posting my man.
>>82886183
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/04/25/millennials-overtake-baby-boomers/
>Millennials, whom we define as those ages 18-34 in 2015, now number 75.4 million, surpassing the 74.9 million Baby Boomers (ages 51-69). And Generation X (ages 35-50 in 2015) is projected to pass the Boomers in population by 2028.
Granted nobody really likes the yuge range but that's the nature of the beast for age ranges of any choice - the far end and beginning blur with the previous or succeeding generation.
Someone's becoming a bitter old jagoff.
>>82886556
Polygon writers please go.
>>82885668
>Seems good at first, but then we get a power vaccuum.
Power vacuum? What power? There isn't meant to be power.
Ideally gaming journalism should be a guy who likes what I like sitting in his basement playing vidya all days and telling what he did and did not like and why so I would know what should I try out and what not to bother with. There's going to be demand for this, although forums might do a better job. Still I would gladly ban current "gaming journalists" for offtopic and trolling.
as long as we're posting comics shitting on games journalism
>>82886089
People who don't get why the quote is significant and directly related to Doom should kill themselves.
Seriously, get a grip you whiny bitch
>>82886556
>becoming
>>82885305
Nigga, you're shooting demons from hell on fucking mars, what the fuck more do you want?
Here's a great PA, not that anyone asked.
I always thought that the original Doom told a pretty good story just from it's levels and designs.
Like it'd start pretty normal on a military base with the human guards having been zombified.
Then later on you find demons, and the portals they came in through.
The hellforming in particular was unsettling, realizing that not just demons, but the hell dimension itself was creeping into ours.
That the very walls and air itself were being transformed.
And of course hell itself; where hellforming turned buttons into skulls, here you'd be pushing eyeballs in walls of flesh. Entire levels were just part of some larger organism of pain.
The cyberdemon is interesting too, since it shows that while hell pushes into our world, they're integrating our stuff as well.
So yeah, 99.9% of Doom was just shooting baddies in the face, no argument there; but the game certainly created a story of hell being a dangerous, powerful place that, had it not been for your actions, would have overrun our reality.
>>82885305
The story is
- evil Corp discovers portal to Hell
- wants to harness Hell energy
- demons attack Mars
- you kill everything in your way
>>82885357
>>82885278
The Penny Arcade guys don't really care about games anymore, but when they have something they care about, it's pretty good.
>>82887464
They dug too greedily and too deep.
>>82885305You are the Doom Guy. You wake up in a sarcophagus retrieved by an AU UAC, and then you murder everything you see. It turns out you killed so many demons in hell that they view you as an ancient evil and trap you. Then you wake up to murder all of them.
>>82886017
>universally hated
But he isn't.
>>82885305
Sometimes you go to point C to find a hidden cell pack.
>>82886017
>Dr. Kelso
Who?
> from Scrubs
What?
>>82885555
>PA's been draw by ghost artists for at least the last few years
Saying it doesn't make it true, Interstella. No matter how many times you repeat it.
>>82885590
>Why the fuck is he playing it on a console?
I use an XBOX 360 controllerwith my computer.
>>82887718
>doesn't know about Bob-o
>doesn't know about ScrubsI swear, this better not have just been bait to make me post this.
>>82885590
>>82887781He's still better than Polygon reviewersThis is not a joke
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3pQ0oO_cDE
>>82888076
That was the least of the problems of PoE
>>82887802
Scrubs is shit desu.
>>82888090They did add a transgender side quest to the OG Baldur's Quest, so it's fixed nowxd
>>82888076
The video with the pussy crying about guns with the range simulator makes me laugh even more
>>82888076
Does PoE even have romances?Got bored of it and didn't play past the second town
>>82887802
>not posting the /co/ version.
>>82888226
It's in the water in San Francisco.Giant Bomb had problem with that VR demo because they didn't turn off the safety and rack the slide.
And Jeff has an irrational hatred of anything without an ACOG sight.
>>82888252
Pretty sure it doesn't. Dropped out of boredom as well, but tyranny looks interesting
>>82887687
That's objectively bullshit, chum. Wesley is literally the most hated character in Star Trek, with only Neelix being any sort of rival in that department.
This has been the dominant opinion in Trek fandom for decades, by this point. And for good reason, because he's a goddamn obnoxious character being played by a wet paper napkin of an actor.
>>82885278
>Millennial strawman
Didn't Tycho make a comic making fun of this type of reasoning?
>>82889069
It's not a strawman if it's not an argument.
It's mocking.
>>82888226
>google it again
>like/dislikes are hidden
>Comments are disabled for this video.
Triggered as fuck.
>>82885278
It's funny because there are actual video game reviews out there that are that stupid.
>>82886636
Thanks for posting this. I am working on a game now and not looking forward to navigating public perception.
It's hard enough getting all your team mates on the same page after hours of meetings let alone someone who is trying to blow through the game just to fire off a 500 word article.
>>82889069
That's not a strawman. That's pretty much the Polygon Rock Star 4 review in a nutshell.
https://archive.is/j7x2t
![[VAGUE SUPERNATURAL ELEMENTS INTENSIFIES].gif](https://i.imgur.com/8dqamd6.gif "[VAGUE SUPERNATURAL ELEMENTS INTENSIFIES].gif")
>>82890420
Oh god I wish this wasn't real
What an irredeemable wanker
>>82885690
I'm a person who prefers controller
>>82889590
>Thanks for posting this. I am working on a game now and not looking forward to navigating public perception.
Just don't be a huge faggot. Respond to fans in a polite way, and address their suggestions without being Philip Fish.
Polygon and Kotaku are less than relevant now, and they're butthurt about it.
>>82890665
That's fine for some genres, but the fast paced FPS that is Doom is not one of them.
>>82885807
>>82885765
That got blown out of the water when HL came out, though.
Half Life is the Watchmen of vidya in that it is a great game that created a bunch of bad tryhard cinematic garbage.
>>82889287
link?
>>82890878
The gameplay is still the core draw of Half-Life, and any game.
>>82890901
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwg6RTjCH7g
It is the most liberal whinefest you can imagine.
>>82890725
>Please stop. The 13th Amendment makes it illegal to own niggas like this.
God dammit that got me good
>>82890725
To be fair he was talking about Americans going up to Japanese girls in Japan and calling them waifu
>>82889287Gonna need to ask for link
>>82890932
Yes, but it lead to lots of cinematic so epic linear games.
>>82890943
That looks fun as fuck
>>82890725
That guy writes for the new editions of the World of Darkness RPGs. Thanks to him and people like him they've got so much more cringeworthy in the last few years, and bear in mind we're starting from a baseline of "goths pretending to be vampires".
>>82890952
>>82890725
>Please stop. The 13th Amendment makes it illegal to own niggas like this.
>>82885435
old people played video *games* not visual novels.
>>82885305
>>82885435
I disagree with a lot of your replies in that I prefer my games to have a competent narrative, but I really like what Doom did. There IS a story, but the Doom Marine himself treats it with disdain. You are physically seen ignoring plot elements in favor of going out and killing demons. Which is a great way to write a Doom game, in my opinion.
>>82887718
yeah its weird. im 31 years old so im old enough to have seen the show but I only ever heard about it on 4chan. was it supposed to be this big show?
google tells me it was on tv when house was on, which was actually a big hospital show.
>>82890580
This is hypnotic
>>82890988
It's pretty fucking fun if you're not convinced guns are monsters that will rape your face if they come close to you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiVl27uLABk
>>82890725
>Please stop. The 13th Amendment makes it illegal to own niggas like this.
Fucking kek!
>>82891090
I thought /tg/ was free from this kind of stuff, due to being uber nerdy that most people won't touch.
>>82885278
Had to look up what kombucha was. Also: Corporate greed is pretty much what leads to Hell invading, so they would be right for the wrong reasons.
>>82885278
Hey. This one is pretty ok.
>>82891365
>Also: Corporate greed is pretty much what leads to Hell invading, so they would be right for the wrong reasons.
No, isn't the AU UAC basically run by a corporate demon worshipers? Hayden want to weaponize demons and mine Hell for energy, but Olivia legitimately wants to bring hell to earth.
>>82890725
Thanks for the advice.
I'm always polite, assface.
>>82885807
>>82885852
>>82885928
>>82886089
>>82890878
My problem with "story" in video games is that people are relying on it more and more. And they'll actually excuse really bad gameplay decisions because of it.
>Final Fantasy X has unskippable cutscenes?
>lol who cares the story is epic le HAHAHA man XD
>Undertale has no skippable cutscenes either
>"but I love listening to le spaghetti skeleton XD"
>TLOU is essentially just a walking simulator
>"But muh Citizen Kane of gaming! muh deep plot"
Just please. Stop already with the story. put it in the garbage where it belongs, or put it back on /tv/. A video game needs to be a game first.
>>82890932
What about VN? They make up the majority of the Japanese market now.
>>82885853
"Hey, why don't you like Wheaton?"
>>82891512
There's a reason they're called 'visual novels.'
>>82891510
You could just ignore all of them just play games, you know. That's an option. I agree with you, but nobody is forcing you to buy that shit.
>>82885305
It does because it LITERALLY locks you in rooms to tell you.
>>82891172
Which is interesting storytelling. People conflate storytelling with stopping everything for text menus or movies or something.
There's a lot more that can be done, that's one of the things that makes video games difficult right now, is that it is as a medium quite different from traditional models
>>82891510
>A video game needs to be a game first.
Writing and gameplay balancing is not a zero-sum game.
If anything bugs me about game stories, its that they rely on hackneyed cliches that are supposed to be novel because game story standards are so low
>>82885278
Haven't millennial reviewers pretty much unanimously been praising DOOM for its lack of pretension?
>>82887687
Wesley Crusher is pretty universally hated. I don't know who you're around that like him, but you should seriously find better people to hang with. Unless YOU like him, in which case seek medical help.
>>82891622
I loved what both Bastion and Transistor did, where you were constantly submerged in story even while you were doing your arcadey fighting and exploring, because it was all layered on top of the gameplay, rather than cutting from one to the other and back again.
>>82891595
>You could just ignore all of them just play games, you know. That's an option.
I do ignore them. I try my hardest to support games that are "videogamey" instead of games that mark themselves as an "experience". It's just that the plague of cinematic artsy-fartsy games has gotten out of hand. Goodness knows they've plagued Early access, kickstarter, Steam greenlight, and pretty much the whole indie scene.
>>82891645
>Writing and gameplay balancing is not a zero-sum game.
Of course a good game could balance the two, but I ask you this: would you prefer a game where the story is told to you through cutscenes, or through gameplay?
Example, look at Kingdom Hearts 2 and Sora's confrontation with Roxas. The vanilla game makes it a simple cutscene. There's no tension, no drama, nothing. I don't feel anything, and it's obviously a cutscene, so I'm not at risk, and neither is Sora. Compare this to Final Mix, where the cutscene is now a full fledged boss fight. Now I feel tension, because there's a chance I could die here! The story is instantly made better because I'm allowed to experience the action first hand, and the game is gonna make me work for it.
>>82891510
>story in XCOM is what made me want to get it
>is now one of my favorite games despite only having maybe 10 cutscenes max
Story is good, just don't overdo it.
>>82891335
Its uber-nerdy stuff which means people work for peanuts or for free and there's consequently much less oversight. Interpret that however you want.
I will, however, say that Beast the Primordial helped killed my enthusiasm for tabletop RPGs. Fuck Beast, and fuck everyone involved in Beast.
>>82890420
Jesus wept I could only get through 3 paragraphs, which can be summed up with, "I've never been a big Guitar Hero/Rock Band fan."
>>82891773
>Goodness knows they've plagued Early access, kickstarter, Steam greenlight, and pretty much the whole indie scene.
Because they are cheap and easy as fuck to make. That's also why almost every other game on Steam these days is a cheap first-person horror game banking on jump scares. It's just a trend. It'll either die out, or it'll be a genre. No reason to get upset about it.
>>82891779
Yeah, I can understand that. A story in moderation is always a good one, but the most important stuff is that it should still feel "videogamey". If the missions, for example, feel like filler to drive you to the next cutscene, then the game part will feel neglected.
One of my personal favorite video game stories is Metroid. I like that Samus is a no-nonsense kick ass action woman who doesn't need to show her ass every 5 seconds in a naked spandex (at least before the zero suit plague and that game which shall not be named). Super Metroid and Metroid Prime, in particular, were such experts at not only game design, but story telling. Bar the opening cutscene in Super Metroid, it never once encumbered you, or required you to stop for hours on end to look at a background or listen to a character.
Sadly, I think they lost this around Fusion.
>>82891773
>Of course a good game could balance the two, but I ask you this: would you prefer a game where the story is told to you through cutscenes, or through gameplay?
Honestly, it depends on the engine. I am actually writing a game running on the Doom engine, and the simplistic movements of actors necessitates cinematics of some kind to induce some kind of tension. Granted I'm trying to keep everything as succinct as I can, but it's a challenge to do.
I think of Oblivion and Skyrim, and their "epic battles" where its 6 actors with canned animations doing the same floaty sword swipes until the other guy falls over. Sometimes you need a little window dressing to sell a point
>>82885278
>>82885853
>>82885918
>>82886017
>>82886183
>>82886257
>>82886528
>>82889069
>>82891647
Millineals are a meme made up by marketers to sell products and after work to desperate out of touch companies. They are not real, they never were. You are beter off bading your view of reality on 80s teen comedies and the rants of grandpas telling kids to get off there lawn.
>>82891932
>I am actually writing a game running on the Doom engine, and the simplistic movements of actors necessitates cinematics of some kind to induce some kind of tension.
You can always find a way to implement that into the gameplay. For example, if your cutscene needs a character of yours to die for plot reasons, have it happen during a boss fight, and he's like an NPC that helps you. make him super useful, so his death comes off as really tragic. Think of it like Tellah from FF4. His death hurt because he had a lot fo awesome attacks, some you won't ever see again until the end of game.
>I think of Oblivion and Skyrim, and their "epic battles" where its 6 actors with canned animations doing the same floaty sword swipes until the other guy falls over.
You can thank bad choreography for that. A good battle in skyrim can easily be made by utilizing event triggers and altering stats. Another example: want to show a dragon as really really powerful? Alter the HP of like a guard of 10 guys so that they'll die instantly to one of his fire attacks. Then have him come at you.
>>82885278
I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of me masturbating to the fact that a webcomic agrees with me.
>>82885930
I think I see where you're coming from. It's an overused generalization and has been thrown about on 4chan so much that it's essentially lost all meaning. It's good to have a picture of a blue-haired, chubby Wil Wheaton sipping from a cup of "male tears" to reaffirm the term.
>>82891510
>Undertale
A game which is entirely designed around its narrative and is themed around having as little gameplay and story segregation as possible. Skipping the cutscenes in Undertale would be like like a blind person watching an action movie.
>>82892295
Blind people do watch action movies. They have special voice tracks that narrate and describe what's on the screen.
>>82886636
Who made this comic? I'd like to read more of their stuff.
>>82892328
> special voice tracks that narrate and describe what's on the screen.
Well at that point it's just an audiobook.
>>82891886
Super Metroid is a fucking beautiful game. The only other game I could think of that had a story that was as unobtrusive as that is Dark Souls.
>finding the statues of the four bosses for the first time without knowing who they were
>mfw seeing a boss and recognizing them from the statue
>>82892377
More like a radio drama. most audiobooks don't do sound effects.
>>82892295
>A game which is entirely designed around its narrative and is themed around having as little gameplay and story segregation as possible.
Yeah, I know. I get that. Toby wanted to tell a story. But so many of his decisions just baffle me. It makes me wonder why he made Undertale into a GAME to begin with. Just a few problems off the top of my head.
>cutscenes can't even be sped through, so you have to watch them at a very low speed
>genocide was made "not fun" on purpose, because something something "you're acting like a monster because you can, and because you can, you feel like you have to". Nevermind the fact that there's no challenge outside of Undyne and sans
>2/3 final bosses are literally cutscenes that you can't lose, or have to actively try and lose
>gameplay mechanics, like items, inventory usage, puzzles, etc, feel obviously tacked on
>other mechanics, like dating Papyrus and Alpys, are basically filler because none of your actions matter in either game, as you get the same result
You know what I mean? I feel like I didn't lose anything by watching this """game"""" on youtube. Even tough I still like it for many things it did (I think Papyrus is a nice character, Asgore is tragic, the music is kickass beyond anything I could've imagined) I don't know if it's enough to make it a good game.
>>82891886
>>82892379
>What game developers think gamers want
>Other M
>What gamers actually want
>Super Metroid
Kinda sums it all up.
>>82891773
Wait a minute...you're gonna whine about games like Undertale and Last of Us because "too popular, stop talking about this thing I don't like weh!" But then go to fuckin Kingdom Hearts?
Come on son!
>>82892446
I mean if you feel like you got everything out of the game then that's your opinion but most of the game is designed around the assumption that you're actually playing it. You feel a huge disconnect about Undertale being an actual game because you never enjoyed it from the perspective of the player. The game even has a segment mocking people who just watch a Lets Play instead of playing the game itself because it's not the same thing.
>>82892350
KC Green
Did a pretty great comic called Gunshow for a few years, now does gaming related stuff.
I swear there was a time when the art was improving, and then it just started getting worse and worse.
>>82892504
>Wait a minute...you're gonna whine about games like Undertale and Last of Us because "too popular, stop talking about this thing I don't like weh!"
Whoa there mate. I never said these games were bad because they were popular. I think that's a fallacy based around the reverse bandwagon, or as /co/ calls it, being a hipster.
I try not to factor a game's popularity into the mix when I determine its quality. Otherwise i'd consider games like Fallout 4 to be better than Splatoon or The Witcher, all based on sales.
>>82892379
Half of Dark Souls 'lore' is just horseshit though where people fill in the gaps between item descriptions to fit what they want in there. Like I heard someone trying to claim that Aldritch was Nito because they share the same goopish skeleton legs and another saying it was Smough because he was a cannibal and his Hammer mentions he was the last knight of Anor Londo.
>>82891786
For me it was the fans of Beast, they keep shitting up discussions.
>>82892527
>The game even has a segment mocking people who just watch a Lets Play instead of playing the game itself because it's not the same thing.
I did feel watching someone else play genocide when that came up.then flowey gets hacked up like an onion. And I'm supposed to be scared, but I can't stop laughing at this tough guy suddenly wimpering like a baby
>>82892682
Darks Souls story is bascially impletemented in the same way as Five Nights At Freddy's.
>>82892743
In other words, the right way. It's a game about spoopy dead children and animatronics, we don't need a deep narrative or backstory.
>it's a millenial that only played Dark Souls and some other "approved" game act as if the have authority on how all videogames should be thread
it's even more hilarious when supposed pc gamers came out with the "videogames with story is a new thing!" argument forgetting all the classic RPG like Ultima date back to the 80s
>>82892446
>Yeah, I know. I get that. Toby wanted to tell a story. But so many of his decisions just baffle me. It makes me wonder why he made Undertale into a GAME to begin with. Just a few problems off the top of my head.
I actually think that Undertale would have lost a lot of its appeal as anything else. The whole thing is just written with the assumption that a person familiar with RPG videogames will be playing it. As a book or a movie Undertale just wouldn't really work.
It's, honestly, one of the biggest reasons why I like it, despite all the problems. Because Toby actually made a thing with a narrative that was enhanced by being a videogame, instead of the much more common having a movie and gameplay segments sort of related. I can think of, like, three other games tops that I've played whose narratively makes active use of the videogame medium. So I think it's admirable that Toby made an honest try at telling a story that wouldn't work half as well as anything else.
>>82892682
You'll have that with literally anything, even the most intricately crafted tale will have people invent headcanons for it.
But what was actually there was really well done.
>>82892791
Yeah, the entire memery about Sans aside, the only reason his boss fight is memorable is because it takes place in a medium that can actively stop you from continuing. His entire fight is themed around that concept, and it literally wouldn't work in anything else other than a tabletop game with an extremely crafty DM.
>>82892411
I like radio dramas. Is there a place to download the audio tracks of movies with that narration?
>>82892851
>>82892791
Both of you offer fair points. I'll concede that UT does make use of being a video game to an extent. Still, I would like to exert that the game could use some improvements, specifically in the story telling department, and maybe offering some replayability outside of just wanting to see more endings.
>>82892724
Beast has fans? Jesus wept. It's like something you'd find on a school shooter's tumblr!
>>82892682
Dark Souls the first had some pretty interesting worldbuilding, and the lore basically gave you all the information you needed to have the broad strokes of everything that happened but let you to imagine all the specific details. That kind of impressionist approach to writing is a legitimate choice. And Dark Souls 1 always gave a feeling that there was in fact a consistency under it all, without contradictions and with a consistent tone, so people speculated.
This consistency was kind of gone in 2 and 3. You know how often when a writer gets into a comic series, it feels like they've only read the wikipedia article of the previous content but never actually read it or talked to the previous writer? (see: everything Bendis has ever written in his life). That's how 2 and 3 felt, lore-wise. Like someone was just making up more things to throw at the wall without regard for how it meshed in.
So I generally tell people that trying to piece together DS lore now is just silly. By 3 it's clearly just tossing random mysterious sounding things and seeing what sticks.
Runyon Dralp is pretty good.
>>82892939
Is jesus wept the new wordfilter?
>>82890955
>To be fair he was talking about something that never happened.
>>82891510
I dunno. I like my galge sometimes and they are all those things.
>playing doom with a controller
>>82892869
I don't know. I imagine there must be, simply because someone has to produce and distribute them. That said, I don't know how much you'd actually enjoy them. Radio drama would be the closest analogue, but they won't actually be like that. Radio drama is a pretty refined medium that pulls a lot of specific tricks to make itself work, like having the characters describe to each other what's happening, and having much tighter sound effect design. I can't imagine one of these film-for-the-deaf tracks being nearly so well-arranged.
>>82892446
The story is heavily based around the fact that it's interactive.
>>82892776
Shit man, I like story in games.
When I play a game, I don't just want a synopsis and go. I want something I can get invested in.
>>82885807
Maybe you should watch better porn.
>>82893060
>>82885278
It's a 'let's insult millennials for no reason' episode.
>>82893191
I get that people like that, but I like games that are replayable. A story kind of gets in the way of that.
>>82890726
>a fast paced fps isn't suited for a device that literally makes it quicker and easier than a keyboard and mouse that has a million different buttons
>>82893241
>For no reason
>>82892927
Well, everything can be improved.
That said, I dunno about the replayability thing.. part of the point of Undertale, I think, is that if you don't want to, you don't NEED to get 100% completion and play the game a million times to see all the things and all the endings. That it's okay to just play a game until you're satisfied with it and that's it, no need to get all the achievements. Making it TOO replayable runs the risk of screwing that up.
Also, not going to lie, I found the gameplay that was there more fun than the average RPG, and I only wish it had been harder. Light danmaku is far more fun than choosing attacks from a menu ad infinitum.
>>82888076
>that Doom gameplay
Jesus fuck. That looks like how I played when I was 10 years old and playing my very first FPS.
Has this person even played an FPS before because it honestly looks like they haven't.
>>82893277
It's the mouse, more than the keyboard, for me. The ideal setup would be, like, half a controller, with a joystick and some buttons, and a mouse in the other hand. With a fast-paced fps, you want to be able to point at things quickly and accurately, and the mouse is still ideal for that, instead of faffing around with a second joystick.
>>82892927
> maybe offering some replayability outside of just wanting to see more endings.
I think there are enough secrets and extra stuff for that.
I think one the biggest problem with the game is that Toby is just one guy, and sometimes it feels like there's stuff that wasn't finished. Like for example, you were originally supposed to have a date with Mettaton, but that was cut. Genocide feels unfinished, I really don't think Toby really wanted there to only be 2 good boss fights, but a one man team means it's a choice between delaying the game forever or releasing it before it's 100% perfect. The game in general feels too short, I get that you're supposed to play through it multiple times so it can't be too long, but I still feel like it ends too quickly.
Still though, despite these flaws, I consider it one of my favorite games. But I can see how other people might not like it. Plus, it's supposed to be a deconstruction of RPGs, so it might be less enjoyable if someone isn't already into those types of games.
>>82892446
>cutscenes can't be sped through
Uh, yes they can. You can just mash x until the cutscene's over.
>>82890420
>All video games are stupid, of course. That whole thing of, 'you're not really shooting terrorists or winning the World Cup, you're just pressing buttons' is patronizing and simplistic but every now and again you come across a game that has so little emotional connection to who you are that you end up standing there, gazing at the screen and saying "I'm just pressing buttons and my life has no meaning," to a slightly bemused PR person.
Why the fuck is this person a video games journalist? What?
What?
>>82893485
I guess my X button must be sticky.
>>82885481
>put effort on them for their games
This must be the most obvious bait I've ever seen. Have a pity reply.
>>82893541
How is that bait? Have you started playing games only a couple of years back peraphs?
>>82891435
Olivia wasn't in charge of the company. She was just one of the top researchers there.
>>82885396
>>82885435
Is someone interested in Doom's story?
Got you covered, buddy.
>>82893325
>>82893360
I see your points clearly and I can now understand the love people have for the game, and how it got so much praise. I will give it this: it is an original game. It reminds me alot of Cave Story, which is a good thing. Wait a sec.
>Cave Story
>Under Tale
Mind = blown
>>82893510
It might be z, it's been a while since I started it up.
>>82893599
Any time is good for a Doom storytime
>>82893613
>>82893607
Truth be told, I didn't play it as indepth as I should've so I might've missed alot about its mechanics.
>>82893636
>>82893653
>>82893679
>>82893354
I tried doing that in Saints Row 4 due to how platform-y of a shooter it was but eventually I just dropped the mouse and decided I'd rather struggle with being able to hit anything than struggle with being able to land on anything.
>>82893703
>>82893724
>>82893748
>>82893767
>>82893787
>>82893603
I like to say that Undertale is a surprisingly refreshing game for having basically been built out of homages and metatextual references. Because let's be honest, Toby makes a fuckload of references and owes a lot to Earthbound and similar games.
And yet when I played it I didn't care. It was just too charming and special for me to keep my cynicism up.
>>82893806
This fucking comic. It never gets old.
>>82893828
>>82893599
Thank you kind anon.
>>82893856
>>82892939
I felt like Beast had some good ideas for creating antagonists for Mortal/Core/Innocents/Hunter games. People who by their bloodline are compelled to do some terrible shit.
But as a game itself, I never saw any good reason why multiple bloodlines of Beast would ever hang out.
>>82893872
>>82893841
>>82893863
this should always be posted whenever someone starts talking about doom, otherwise why have the thread on /co/, really?
>>82893904
>>82893918
Doomguy tears open a rift to 40k.
how fucked is Khorne?
>>82893933
so, there you have it. The movie may have fucked it up, the videogame sequels may have fucked it up, but here on /co/ we are well aware on Doom's canon story. Don't let people tell you it doesn't have one.
>>82893970
He becomes the new Kharn.
>>82893970
Literally every Demon is fucked.
>>82893572
If you think there's any effort in Japanese game stories, you're an idiot.
They're all fucking cringeworthy garbage that feels like a teenager's shitty fanfic.
Pathologic or even Fahrenheit have better stories than any of the japshit.
>>82894022
>the videogame sequels may have fucked it up
The new one is actually pretty spot on.
>>82893970
Does he have the big gun with him? Can he get one there?
this is funny but it's pretty fucking rich coming from Tycho
>>82894022
I'd love to see a young Bill Paxton doing this dialogue in the vein of a Hudson who lives up to his own hype.
>>82894078
>Can he get one there?
He could probably get several hundred.
>>82894071
Coming from a guy on /co/ of all places.
I would like to see what you actually know about those games you dismiss so quickly, but considering you can't even argument without petty insults I doubt you are very smart.
Also Ice-Pick Lodge doesn't make conventional games and they aren't the norm and surely don't agree with the people that say all games shouldn't have stories.
>>82890420
>TFW you're part of the theme park/rollercoaster fandom and don't have to deal with SJs and pansy-ass journos
>>82894299
I learned this was a thing a few weeks ago. It was weird, but entertaining listening to a guy I knew who lives on the other side of the country talk in detail about the rides I went on as a kid, three thousand miles away from where he lives.
>>82894209
>godawful horror games with shittiest plots imaginable
>retarded "capeshit" like Muv Luv or Fate series
>good stories with effort put in them
Yeah, sure.
>you can't even argument without petty insults
It's not an insult, I call 'em like I see 'em.
> Ice-Pick Lodge doesn't make conventional games
AND that contradicts literally nothing I said
>all games shouldn't have stories.
>HURR DOOM NOT NEEDING TO HAVE A STORY = ALL GAMES SHOULDN'T HAVE STORIES
And see? This is a prime example of why you deserve to be called an idiot.
>>82894299
>>82894359
Be careful. If you bring too much attention to it they will find a way in.
>>82885435
christ, you must think youre so clever. drown yourself faggot
>>82894299
They'll come for you too, anon. First it'll be
>The Tunnel of Love is sexist vagina metaphor and only women should be allowed on it.
Then it'll be
>All of those pirate themed rides are problematic because they glorifies thieves and rapists.
Then it'll be
>Themeparks as a whole are exculsionary, because "you must be this tall to ride" signs constitute discrimination.
And on and on and on. Mark my words, and cap this post.
>>82886528
>>82892024
It doesn't help that what these demographics actual are change dramatically depending on what kind of message they're trying to sell.
Like the concept the 90's Kid can be simultaneously someone born in the 90's, or their prime childhood and teen years were during the 90's. You get a large range depending on which angle you go with.
>>82894378
Where the hell did I say that Doom needs a story? Can you even follow the discussion or not?
>>82887696
RIP Daisy
>>82894432
I assume >>82885435
is your post.
>>82885853
Is it possible to get a mug like this that says "Nigger Sweat" or something?
>>82890420
Too Cool to be a Video Game Journalist was just too cool.
>>82885853
if you were born in the mid or early 80's, current marketing execs will call you a millennial. but you are also old enough to be aware of the fact that they used to lump you in with Gen X, and then called you Gen Y, and then called you some other shit no one will ever remember, and finally settled on millennial because it sells more widgets.
long story short, there is no generational granfalloon you have to be attached to, and your not responsible for other peoples actions.
>>82894071
Well western games arent any better than japanese but i play japanese more nowdays.
>>82891365
>Had to look up what kombucha was.
I had to look up that and fracking.
>>82893933
>>82893599
This puzzles me a lot, but how come that in the 15+ years since it has been an internet meme, that no one ever bothered to make a better quality re-scan of this comic?
>>82894505
No, that wasn't me.
I was this >>82885481 >>82885560
Also keep in mind that effort doesn't equal to quality.
>>82894412
>Themeparks as a whole are exculsionary, because "you must be this tall to ride" signs constitute discrimination.
They can bitch and moan all they want, people die because of that shit. I remember going to Astro WorldRIPall the time as a kid and being scared as shit because I was only like an inch over the limit and thought I was gonna slip right out.
>>82890420
This is what happens when you misinterpret New Gaming Journalism.
Thanks a lot, Kieron Gillen. Look what you've done.
>>82894637
That's the problem with Japs. They're incapable of doing quality things.
Silent Hill 1-2 are exceptionsand Silent Hills PT had potential, but it's too late to talk about it, but overall they can't create anything good..
>>82891510
Kill yourself, ACfag, you were defending Undertale a while back
>>82894740
You're welcome.
>>82891510
>unskippable cutscenes
Fucking cancer.
>decide to replay L.A. Noire
>remember all the stuff you need to, so you can skip all the cutscenes
>whoops, you can't
>you have to suffer through information you already know and most of those cutscenes are not even interesting enough to just watch
>>82893000
My favorite thing is when things predict their future in a self depreciating way and it comes flawlessly true.
>>82893599
>Not gleaning the plot from readme.txt
>>82885453
The witcher without a story would be shit, same with bioshock
>>82894983
The Witcher would be shit regardless.
>>82887589
>you're considered evil in Hell
That's awesome.
>>82894871
I don't see why you're happy, Person Who Is Totally Kieron Gillen. Compare early NGJ works such as always_black's "Bow Nigger" (https://web.archive.org/web/20041011165321/http://alwaysblack.com/blackbox/bownigger.html) or Jim Rossignol's "Going Planetside" (https://web.archive.org/web/20050308103315/http://rossignol.cream.org/?p=13) to modern NGJ pieces such as the aforementioned Rock Band 4 "preview". Something clearly went wrong when you go out of your way to avoid talking about the game you were hired to talk about.
>>82885278
>yfw the first Penny Arcade strip came out over 17 years ago
>yfw there's probably people on this board who are younger than Penny Arcade.
>>82885435
Young people thinking their shitty video game plots are deep or something.
>>82895105
>1998
>17 years ago
I'll go get a drink.
