>Bad guy becomes popular amongst fans
>Becomes good guy as an excuse to stick around
Kinda loses the charm it once had when it happens so often
Depends on how it's written and how they act as a good guy compared to how they were before.
A good example is Vegeta
>DBZ
Say what you will, he's a good example of a villain who turns good. He stays a huge asshole but slowly warms up to the other characters. He still shows his old tendencies, but also shows that he has grown past them and as a person...sorta.I haven't watched Super, so if he's shit in that, I dunno.
>>82805610
>tfw people never understand why Vegeta is such a cunt
>>82805152
really depends how bad they are
if they're sadistic but charming guy it won't work because you have to take out his sadistic nature
if they're more petty and just kind of a dick it works because you could just turn them into a rival like Vegata or Hiei
>tfw what happened to venom
>>82805803
Harley is a good example of of to fuck up a character
>>82805610
He was idiotic as a hero.
The guy murdered countless innocent people. It made no sense he was just accepted as a friend cos of a team up on namek. Being a big jerk doesn't change that
>>82805920
What happened to Venom?
>>82806126
Second strongest guy who wants to prove he is better than goku the strongest guy. But he can't because people keep trying to destroy the planet.
>I think it works desu senpai
>>82805152
Tohru
>>82806228
Yeah works as an evil rival. Not an ally. He didn't beat up a few people...nigga killed tons of people. Fuck didn't he blow up a planet at One point?
"Oh but I'm cool now I guess...just surly"
>>82806145
Anti venom and agent venom.
And the fact that he will never be an anti-hero who eats brains like he was intended in the 80s.
>>82806126
Well, it helps that all of his pre-saiyan saga crimes can be ignored because someone would just say "but it was Frieza's orders" although he totally fucked up shit because he could, and everything during the Saiyan and Namek Saga as "but the Dragonballs fixed it"
>>82806341
You can't eat brains and be anything but evil, anon.
>>82806335
>didn't he blow up a planet at One point?
anime filler. but, he did kill a bunch of people during the Buu saga to get Goku to fight him when he was in Majin form.
to his credit, the Buu saga had just about everyone acting out of character though since it was tacked on after what was supposed to be the real ending (Cell)
>>82806335
So did piccolo senpai but piccolo was like oh shit nigga these strong ass alien mother fuckers are gonna fuck every thing up time to work with my enemy since I was a wee lad
>>82806453
That's why he became a villain because his concept was before his time.
>>82806335
>>82806500
>nobody cares about the planet of bug-people that Vegeta ended on a whim
They probably had a rich history, heroes and villains of their own, wars filled with tragedy and triumph, a whole culture of myths and traditions handed down through generations.
They're gone now, their world will never exist again, all those stories lost to time, as so much dust.
>>82806647
It's filler so don't worry about it my dude
>>82806669
>It's filler
Aren't we all
>>82805152
Then you should stop watching anime and watch something written by competent people.
>>82806500
Is there a source that dbz was originally supposed to end after cell?
>>82806772
Actually it was going to end with the freza saga but the show was too successful to end at that time
>>82806706
THE REAL FOLK BLUES
>>82806772
Its original ending was the Demon King Picollo. Then Frieza. Then Cell.
Why did vegeta commit genocide for the guy who genocided the sayin race anyway?
>>82807029
If he didn't he would be killed, so he bided his time until he was powerful enough to take revenge.
>>82805610
You derailed this thread so hard.
>>82807002
I think the first ending was Piccolo Jr., not Demon King Piccolo, considering Goku going to train with Kami immediately after.
>>82807105
Don't worry I can derail it back on track.
A GOOD EXAMPLE OF OP IS FROM STEVEN UNIVERSE
IT HELPS WHEN THE FORMER VILLAIN IS REALLY CUTE
>>82807235
No you fool crystal gems will make it worse!
>>82807235
>>82807387
>>82807235
My retort is that Peridot was written to be a cute non villian before fans even saw her.
>>82805152
>Peridot
>Villain
just a misunderstood cog in the machine was all she was.
>>82807785
Only because she was based on Sugar's Invader Zim fanfics.
>>82805610
The entire series has redemption as a focal theme. While not everyone becomes good many adversaries become an ally. Buu 18 16 yacht oolong all come to mind.
>>82806126
Vegeta just kind of muscled his way into the group because Goku gives zero fucks and nobody else had the balls to tell him to fuck off. Early in the Android saga, when Goku was sick, the rest of the group made it pretty clear that didn't want him there. Even Piccolo and Trunks were starting to get fed up with his shit.
>>82805152
Isn't that a recoccuring theme in the forbidden cartoon?
>>82805152
Meh, most villains turned heroes/anti-heroes are pretty based though
>Hawkeye
>Magneto
>Black Adam
>Vision
>Quicksilver
>Scarley Witch
>Punisher
>Catman
>Deadshot
That's just off the top of my head
>>82808366
Punisher was never either
>>82806453
>Kevin Levin
I mean, he was bro-tier after the face turn but man was that transition awkward. And there's still nothing good about his relationship with Gwen.
>Bad guy becomes popular amongst fans
>Becomes badder guy
>>82808394
He was introduced as an antagonist for sure
>>82805152
Was Tohru popular?
>>82808644
Frank castle really let himself go
>>82808394
His first issues were basically just him trying to kill Spidey.
>>82806772
>>82806890
>>82807002
>>82807166
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/intended-end/
The first ending intended was actually after collecting the Dragon Balls and ruining Pilaf's wish. It was just going to be a retelling of Journey to the West.
There's no indication he planned to end the series specifically after either Piccolo, Freeza or Cell. After the Saiyan arc actually seems like one of the only times he really had a planned end in mind.
Keep in kind that Toriyama had been interested in ending the series pretty much at any point from King Piccolo onwards if permitted by the magazine, but really had no set ideas to do so.
The article above covers all the rumors and why they're wrong pretty well.
>>82805152
>oolong
>yamcha & puar
>tenshinhan & chaozu
>piccolo
>vegeta
>androids 16 & 18
>majin boo
Jesus christ it did happen a lot.
>>82808758
>>82808634
my mistake
It's good when they remember to make them more anti-villain than anti-hero
>>82806341
But those two where the only times Venom was actually ever any good.
>>82805610
Vegeta kind of stole Piccolo's redemption thunder.
>>82805152
>>82805610
Shit happens all the time in anime/manga and for the stupidest ways for the worse people.
>Butler guy:"Once I discovered I had powers, I tested them on my wife and killed her. Not because I hate her, just because I could."
>>82811306
kek
>>82805152What is Peridot?
>>82805610>I haven't watched Super, so if he's shit in that, I dunno.
Super actually does a really good job of showing just how far Vegeta has come, and just how much he considers Earth his new home.
>>82811934
Well it's not like he has anywhere else to go. Where else would he go, hang out with the green beans on namek?
>>82812153
If he really wanted to, I'm sure Vegeta could take over Frieza's organization in the power gap left by his and King Cold's deaths. He could probably also swipe the Dragon Balls to wish up new Saiyans, along with a new Planet Vegeta, if he really wanted to. He just decided to stay on Earth instead.
>>82807235
All this shit is written months in advance, peridot turning good has nothing to do with fans.
>>82812278
>I'm sure Vegeta could take over Frieza's organization in the power gap left by his and King Cold's deaths.
I'm pretty sure Frieza's men hate Vegeta's guts by now if they are still going out of their way just to revive and follow him.
>He could probably also swipe the Dragon Balls to wish up new Saiyans, along with a new Planet Vegeta, if he really wanted to.
I think Vegeta came to realize his people sucked and were just a bunch of barbaric monkies. Does he even still have his tail? Probably got rid of that useless thing for good.
>>82812594
>I'm pretty sure Frieza's men hate Vegeta's guts by now if they are still going out of their way just to revive and follow him.
Sure, but they would follow him because he's way stronger than any of them. The only reason they even revive Frieza is because of the power vacuum his death left.
>I think Vegeta came to realize his people sucked and were just a bunch of barbaric monkies.
Probably, but I'm just saying that it was an option, and he chose Earth instead.
>Does he even still have his tail? Probably got rid of that useless thing for good.
It was cut off during his first fight with the Z-warriors, and I'm not sure if the "tails grow back" thing is canon or if that's just GT.
>>82806267
A good dental plan and the occasional section 13 donut will make anyone turn good.
>>82806267
Well if you happen to rule over your family with an iron grip and then have some high school girl suddenly appear before your family
Then manage to free them from your iron grip yeah I guess she would be the bad guy
>>82812706
It grows back when you're still a kid, unless you have it surgically removed at the base. Gohan's came back a couple of times and I think so did Goku's in the earlier manga.
But as an adult, no. Not unless you're in a GT healing chamber.
>>82808067
Not to mention pretty much everyone but Krillin (who came off as a dick rival at first) and yajirobe, like yamcha being a bandit and then/chiaotz being huge assholes.
![ba0c8caf58dfc5ef8f13a96f23f396e7[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/I8JYHzc.jpg "ba0c8caf58dfc5ef8f13a96f23f396e7[1].jpg")
>bad guy is popular
>becomes the focus of the show
>show becomes 100% better
Hate's great best villain
Best example I can think of. The scoobies had tons of reasons to kill him and never did.
>>82807387
>>82815944
He was top tier in Angel season 5 so I'm glad he stuck around instead of dying as an irrelevant character 5-6 seasons prior.
>>82815746
Hater needed to be in more episodes, he's always been my favorite character
If nothing else we at least need an actual "Hater The Greatest in the Galaxy" show, or specials
>>82808366
Magneto, black adam and deadshot are better villains.
The punisher was never a true villain, he kills bad guys and only fights good guys who get in his way
The vision, scarlet witch and quick silver were created with the idea that they would become heroes from the get go. OP is talking about characters who when they were made were never supposed to be anything but villains.
You are right about Hawkeye though
Catman sucks dick
>>82808758
>Not giving context
...because he was told that Spidey was a murderer by (I think it was the Jackal?) Once he found out the truth, he went after Jackal instead.
