Why is it that so many people think that Superman is difficult to relate to? Seems to me that, out of anyone, he hits close to home for most people.
>Bruce Wayne is a rich man. He’s an artistocrat. Superman grew up as Clark Kent on a farm bailing hay, and he’s got a boss that shouts at him if he’s late to work. He’s actually more human; Batman is the fetish fantasy psyche of the aristocrat overlord who can do anything he wants, and that’s fascinating. The class difference between the two of them is important.
>People often forget Superman is very much a put-upon guy. Bruce has a butler, Clark has a boss …
>he so wants to be like us. He pines after one girl while Batman has a whole host of fetish femmes fatale at his beck and call.
Quotes from Grant Morrison.
>>82791984
That's why he's unrelatable. He's got all of this power, and he keeps this mild-mannered schtick going all the time as Kent, and I would imagine the average person can't relate to getting reamed by their boss and just taking it, if they had Superman's powers. In fact, most people daydream about having great power just so they can shoot their bosses with their laser eyes and then fly, and often they have these daydreams while being chewed out at work by their boss, because they're powerless and so they fantasize about having power. It's difficult, then, to imagine a man who has power, who still keeps his head and just wants to be a regular guy.
I've said this before: it really boils down to the "third" element of being a Mary Sue/Gary Stu. People -- in the comics -- praise Superman to no end, and the "point" of most talked about (and hence most influential) Superman stories is to cement Superman as the most important and most human character of the DCU. At the end of the day, Superman is praise, in universe, as at least trying his best and being a good guy for doing so.
Batman can be conflicting (in bad ways), with him being too rich to relate to or being good at everything. But at the end of the day, Gotham is still fucked; Bruce is still alone; he pushes people away from him; etc. There's always one more big problem in Bruce's life, and that element makes him relatable. Because on a conscious level, we can imagine being in his shoes and doing things differently -- but unconsciously and perhaps realistically, we know that things aren't always going to work out, that even if you do things right, people aren't going to like you, and it's not as if someone is going to pat you on the back and say "aw shucks, well, *I* think you're a good person, anon!"
>>82791984
Superman is a literal god. I think I'd relate more to a crazy guy dressed up as a bat than a guy that piloted a giant plot created robot duplicate of himself in a 4-dimensional realm battling against a vampire multiverse god and somehow managed to bring back a cure that has been repeatedly stated as impossible to do.
Meanwhile Batman is a product of himself. He started off wealthy but spent a decade poor and globetrotting and training to become the badass he is now.
>>82791984
Superman can't exist because he is unrealistic. Aliens with laser eyes. But if I wasn't lazy, I could easily become Batman if I wanted to since I have a B.S. in engineering.
>>82792242
I don't think that is really true anymore. Batman is treated like the most important figure in comics because it is is a case of real world popularity infiltrating the actual books.
>>82792212
I think it's because they don't try to see things from Superman's perspective. They don't see the kid who grew up feeling strange and other from the rest of his peers, who struggles to fit in and keep his secret from even his best friends because he's afraid that they'll hate him. They don't see the god who was raised as a human, knowing that he'll never be a human. They don't see the adopted son sitting by his parents' graves, knowing that he'll bury every single person he'll ever meet and never age beyond his thirties.
Superman could be one of the most lonesome, isolated characters in comics, but he isn't because he doesn't let any of that get to his head. He acknowledges that this is the life that he's been given, and he decides to do something good with it. But, that doesn't stop him from just wanting to be able to go down to Bibo's with Lois and actually get a buzz for once.
>>82792283
Superman is just an alien with really weird biology making him powerful on earth or anywhere theres alot of yellow light or some shit.
>>82792283
Batman also does the impossible. That's the whole point of Batman. He's Harry Houdini mixed with James Bond. The whole point is he literally does anything he wants without any limitation. There's nothing he can't do despite having no powers.
>>82792332
Which is everywhere unless plot demands otherwise.
>>82792346
It is everywhere because earth is covered in yellow light from the sun its the whole plants are green and not purple instead because of all that fucking yellow light.
>>82792283
You forgot the part where he piloted that giant plot robot in order to save his wife, the most important person in the world to him.
people who read comics for power levels are actual idiots. Whether you are superman fan reading superman because he's super strong!!! Or a batman fan reading batman because not having powers is somehow more relatable(when you're just reading batman as a male wish fantasy). Either way, if you are either of these types of people, you are a retard.
>>82792337
Hell, Grant Morrison even wrote a story that put Batman in a bunch of different comic genres just to prove that Batman literally can do anything and be anyone that he wants to be.
Superman, on the other hand, can just be Superman. That's the only person that he can ever be.
Because people's exposure to comics today come from movies and TV. So everyone and their grandma who have watched the avengers movie have an opinion on Superman, without reading any of Superman's good comics(or without even picking up a comic book). Other factors come from lack of creativity in modern media. People can't relate to anyone without the character being of their skin color.
>>82791984
A better question is why does anyone still care about DC characters, especially the two main capetards from the 1930's?
>>82792383
He still did the impossible and cured her cancer. Because he's Superman. That was the literal reason he gave for being able to do so.
Now you can say Clark Kent is more relatable but as soon as you factor in Superman, that goes out the window. Bruce isn't relatable at all but Batman is more relatable than a god that wants to be a mortal.
>>82792476
You must be a very boring person.
>>82792489
But Superman IS Clark. They're the same person.
There's no difference between Superman Beyond and all those stories about husbands risking life and limb, doing the impossible to save their wives. You strip away Mandrakk, you strip away the Monitors, and that's what you're left with: a husband going far beyond what anyone could ever imagine to help his wife.
>>82792580
But he still does the impossible because he's Superman.
Batman makes mistakes.
Superman doesn't make mistakes.
Batman fails.
Superman doesn't fail.
You can talk about his motives and strip away as much as you want to show the simple farmboy, but the question is why Superman is so unrelatable. And that's why. He's Superman. It's not even a name at this point. It's a state of doing the impossible and always being right. It's perfection.
>>82791984
He's a decent guy raised by good parent who wants to help people just because it's the right thing to do. It's hooky and corny and simple.
We live in a world where relativism is on the rise and altruism is on the decline so so Superman is becoming less and less relatable
>>82792679
He's perfect because of what he represents, the indomitable human will and spirit. He's not perfect because he's a Kryptonian standing in yellow sunlight, he's perfect because he was raised by Jon and Martha Kent, from Smallville, Kansas. He's the best in all of us, he's the person that we wish we could be, and because he's the person that we could be if we just gave enough of a damn.
You're missing the forest for the trees, man.
>>82792786
Well I can't relate to that. You got anybody that struggles with internal demons and has to deal with failure at every turn?
If you were to watch two TV shows, which do you think would speak to you more:
Leave it to Beaver
Malcolm in the middle
Neither are relatable in all honesty but one of them will remind you more of your family than the other.
>>82792786
Man, what's that cigarette gotta smell like when you have super senses?
>>82792926
Malcolm in the Middle is a story about a kid who's loaded down with problems that aren't of his own creation, who's thrust into a world that he doesn't understand, where he's different and sticks out from the crowd and who wants nothing more than to fit in. Due to his heritage, he's blessed with great power far beyond that of the average man, but his upbringing tells him that he should use that power to help everyone else. So, he puts on a figurative costume, masking the fact that he's more capable than anyone else around him, because that gives him the ability to live an actual life, instead of having to be 'on stage' all the time.
Huh. Sounds kinda like a certain comic book character in a blue costume with a red cape.
>>82792423
Why the hell would be a human when you can be a alien demigod instead?
Batfags are edgelords that self insert as him.
>>82793033
See
>>82792324
>>82792679
>implying batgod makes mistakes
Modern cynicism has overridden any genuine sympathy for him. We live in a world where people can unironically praise Lex Luthor because the idea of a superpowered alien that literally fights for the values he was raised on without a secret agenda just sounds like bullshit.
That and people don't know what it means to "relate" to a fictional character anymore. In a way it's confused for self-insertion, which certainly isn't helped by the way most characters are written and treated as blank slates.
>>82792938
Superman could probably smell, see, and discern every particle and their effect on the human body.
>>82791984
Because deep down, Superman is a good person. And Bruce is not. Bruce has to be guilt tripped into helping people. He's angry and selfish and stubborn.
People hate Superman because he raises the bar for our behavior while Batman is a fantasy that rewards our lesser demons.
Superman is a series that says "everyone can be super if they work to make the world a better place" Batman is a series that says "It's okay if you don't help people; you're not a billionaire with decades of training."
>>82792679
>Superman doesn't make mistakes.
>Superman doesn't fail.
But that's wrong.
>>82793650
Every time that he chooses to save one person, there are thousands of people that he chooses to not save, because he has the ability to intervene in any conflict that he can. But, he can only ever be in one place at a time. And yet, he's still able to hear and see all of the people in the world that he's not saving at any given point in time.
>>82792451
I know this probably doesn't deserve the (You), but I relate to Spidey and I'm not white (or black for that matter).
To the thread at large,
Are there any stories that play up on Clark's dayjob as a journalist? I like the angle that he's a journalist because he can bring out more change than just being Superman 24/7.
>>82794086
Only one that I can think of off the top of my head is Lobdell's run. But it's pretty bad and not worth reading.
>>82792212
Why would you say he's unrelatable? By your own argument, you're saying that people don't hold themselves back for the sake of stability, moreso that they can't. This is retarded. Of course you can slap your boss in the face or bring a gun out and terrorize wrongdoers, but you don't. You don't do these things because you know they have consequences, because they will leave you ostracized, jobless, alone and probably in prison. In superman's case maybe you could retreat to the fortress of solitude, but he doesn't want that because he likes people. He wants to belong just as much as you do, as much as any person does.
Superman is a metaphor for hidden talent and closeted tendencies (geeky hobbies and non-hetero-normative sexuality) that we hide from others. He is our desire to act and do great good, our superego to Batman's id. To paraphrase Morrison, we all have our secret uniforms under our shirts and fortresses of solitude tucked away in a corner of our homes. To say that he's unrelatable is absurd.
In my own personal experience as a comic book reader, I've found that I enjoyed Batman more when I was younger and more willing to believe that it was me against the world, that I'm right and everyone else is wrong and that I only let people help me if they absolutely must. As I've grown older, I find that Superman's love for those around him and his balance between wanting to belong and always acting when needed to be an altogether more relatable and something to aspire towards.
>>82792242
This is an altogether pessimistic way to look at superheroes and the human condition as a whole. I prefer Superman's optimism and faith in man's ability do good over the endless hell of Batman's crusade. The question then becomes the following: which superhero you want senpai? Would you prefer the guy who catches us when we fall or the wagnerian operatics of a billionaire dressed as a bat?
>>82791984
>I can't relate to rich people
Every day I am more convinced people like Superman to compensate their actual lack of humanity.
>>82796474
You missed the point.
What Morrison is getting at is that everyone thinks that Superman is the power fantasy, when he lives the life that most of us do, and Bruce Wayne is the actual power fantasy.
>>82791984
No idea. I think Superman is the greatest self insert character ever made
>>82796680
>>82796580
They're all power fantasies
>>82796713
What's wrong with that?
>>82791984
i love him he is cooler as batman for me,
>>82796580
I really doubt people self insert as Batman
>>82796790
Sure they do. Why wouldn't they? He has billions of dollars, sleeps with super models, has all the coolest toys in the world, the most powerful computer ever created, the best car, the best motorcycle, the best jet, the best boat, etc. Not to mention that he's the best at everything that he does, from dancing to beating the shit out of people.
>>82796860
but his stories never focus on that, they focus on the misery, the fuck ups, the suffering and the constant beatings etc.
>>82796860
HE REMINDS ME OF DONALD TRUMP-Scott Snyders Batman.
>>82796953
The stories don't have to focus on any of that, because it's all constantly in the background.
>>82796790
Donald Trump
Why must Supesfags always make a weekly thread about their victim complex over a fictional franchise character?
>>82791984
if Krypto peed on a fire hydrant, would it get knocked over?
>>82797067
Gee. I wonder.
>>82797069
Probably. I don't think the Dog cares much about control
>>82797067
Like you're to talk, Pattyfag. I see your threads like every week about how she's so "tragic". Get bent dude.
>>82797005
So if the stories don't matter, according to your logic, literally every hero is power fantasy.
>>82797052
I don't think Trump gets beaten, poisoned, hated by his own family, on the brink of mental breakdown, injured every week
>>82797196
To a certain extent, yes, they are. Even Superman, because he gets to help people in the way that we wish we could. Even the Punisher, because he gets to take it out on the dirtbags that so many people wish they could.
>>82797196
>I don't think Trump gets beaten, poisoned, hated by his own family, on the brink of mental breakdown, injured every week
Well, I know what I'm going to be fantasizing about for the next month or two.
>>82797067
>Flash fans
I like Flash because of his silver age feel and crazy stunts plus an interesting rogue gallery
>Green Lantern fans
I like GL because of the chemistry between the various lanterns and the cosmic aspect of their adventrues plus interesting characters like Sinestro etc.
>Batman fans
I like Batman because of its cast of characters, his rogue and the overall theme
>Superman fans
Let me tell you about Batman...
