How does a 15 year old with no money create such a crazy concept like web fluid and webshooters?
I can believe some kid being bitten by a magic/radioactive/genetically spliced spider and mutating because of that.
Maybe I can believe this kid is so smart that he can come up with the idea for it, but
I can't believe that Peter can create the webshooters on his own and continue to make the fluid on the budget he has.
>>82784591
That's why he stayed broke.
>>82784664
The brokeness just makes it dumber by giving Pete revolutionary engineering skills but unable to make money off of them.
Best compromise is and will always be having organically-produced webbing that he needs to construct webshooters to fire.
Just because a material is useful and inventive doesn't necessarily mean it is rare or valuable.
Real spider silk is just protein goop and a dash of various sugars and lipids, all of which can be feasibly synthesized using readily available chemicals.
>>82784704
But he's currently making tons of money off his engineering skills.
>>82785031
After like 50 years.
>>82784591
>How does a 15 year old with no money create such a crazy concept like web fluid and webshooters?
>I lack the creativity to ghetto rig a contraption
>>82784704
Oh fucking hell it's a damn organic web thread.
Fuck off with that shit already.
>>82784948
The webbing would be valuable. It's strong enough to hold back the likes of the Rhino.
>>82784591
A lot of versions say that the spider bite, while not giving him organic webbing, gave him the innate knowledge of how to make webbing. He didn't really think of the idea 100% himself. It became an instinctual thing, like how humans can have sex despite never see it being done before. Through that instinct is how he made artificial spinnerets and webbing. Peter still needed to go to school and learn how to science for real in order to make a profit since the only thing he really knew was physics and how to make and apply an adhesive that fades over time.
He also can't continue to make webbing on his standard budget. That's why he runs out instead of making dozens of cartridges and needs the Bugle job like a bitch.
>>82785066
In universe, it's probably like, 5.
>>82785258
It's not. Unless you're super agile, have super strenght and a sixth sense, "really strong webs" is a shitty, shitty weapon to use against anything that poses a threat.
>>82784591
>what is fiction?
He's a fucking science nerd with time and ingenuity on his hands.
Part of his character is that if he wasn't Spider-Man, he'd be a Nobel-prize winning scientist.
>>82784591
He got the knowledge of how to engineer the fluid from the spider bite.
I really don't know why the movies are afraid to state this
>>82785327
Could use it to capture people and not harm them.
>>82784704
thats always the big problem with peter it makes no sense for him not to become rich after a few years but it destroys his character if he does get rich
>>82785441
They already have way more effective ways of doing that in that universe.
>>82785462
>be super-man most of his day
>take care of his aunt
>find ways to make some cash with his free time
How exactly would he get rich here? He isn't the type to put off his hero work to research stuff. If he could be out there saving people as spidey, he will.
>>82785529
Fucking phone always auto corrects spider-man to super-man
>>82784591
Pete is a genius he just really bad with money and balance work & free time
/r/ the page with Reed (or was it Pym?) practically shitting himself when Peter told him he made the webshooters when he was a teenager
>>82785080
it makes more sense though. stop being a sperg
>>82785576
It was Pym. Pym is both more likely to admit the acomplishment of others and more likely to be bitter about it anyway.
>>82784591
>I consume cape media, but somehow the classic "genius inventor" trope is too incredulous
>I am more willing to believe that he somehow has spinnerettes in his forearms that can metabolize an absurd amount of webbing, and possibly support his own weight, without his forearms being bloated and misshapen and possibly hampering his manual dexterity from displacing the muscleVenture Bros did it better anyway
>>82784591
he's a genius when it comes to science, but when he got spider powers his brain power probably got a boost when his physical body got built up. I dunno it's like he got a speed high when he got his powers.
>spidey autists pissed off about organic webbing
I will never understand this. Never. How is it THAT important to the characters that he gets all his powers from a spiderbite, except his most important one? It's shitty, dime-a-dollar cartoon logic that is best retconned.
>it's this thread again
>>82785529
> Kal Arachnid from the Spider House of Krypton
>Gains the ability to climb walls and spin webs because of our yellow sun and because his father was a dirty spider-fucker
>>82785031
His SUPERIOR skills you mean? :^)
>>82784591
They're cheap to make.
>>82785924
Otto, don't you have something better to do, like find a new body?
He made it in his garage, with a box of scraps.
>>82784591
By being a science major.
>>82785327
>>82785474
Nonsense. Give cops spray cans like this but with spiderman webbing.
Bam, street cops can now incapacitate people with superpowers and it's safer (assuming you avoid the face) than a Tazer since those often fuck up people you hit them with due to falling or if the person has a bad heart or other conditions.
>mechanical webs are better because they can show off Peter's intelligence and ingenuity
>organics webs somehow make Peter a retard and there are no ways for Peter to show off he's a genius with them
>>82785462
Then that means he's probably a poorly thought out character with some good points that most people latch on to while ignoring the dissonance of his position.
>>82785956
Otto's too busy getting cucked to shit post here.
>>82785771
Spidey doesn't wear a cape, dipshit. Do you even /co/?
>>82785868
Because original is best in all things no matter what. You can't change comics and give character development or improve the internal logic because that's NOT WHAT THE FOUNDING FATHERS WOULD HAVE WANTED SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED MOTHERFUCKER
>>82786039
That's why organic webs that need shooters to function properly is best.
>>82785327
It would be invaluable in construction. Lighter than steel but with a higher tensile strength? Yes, please. Peter would be a millionaire if he patented that shit.
>>82784591
>>82784704
>>82785031
which is probably why he's "paired" with tony stark in civil war. Spiderman is just a kid with no idea how to capitalized on his talent.
Peter Park would actually be an excellent ironman inheritor if not for the fact he's already spiderman.
>>82786080
Doesn't it disintegrate after a short while?
It's amazing how many writers forget that Pete is supposed to be a genius.
>Oh, he's clever. Look at him Thwip'n'quip!
>Oh, he's such a lovable nerd. Look at him be alone and laugh!
>Science? No, he has no idea what that is and couldn't possibly use it to help himself out of this incredibly simple engineering jam.
>>82785679
Isn't that ironic, someone who thinks superheroes need "make more sense" and has probably been making organic web threads for years calls others spergs.
>>82786156
You could just reapply a coat every hour or so.
>>82786156
Yep. Spidey actually did try to sell his webbing as paste in the Lee/Ditko run when he was down on money, but they wouldn't buy it for that very reason.
>>82786080
Actually, no. This anon >>82786156 is correct
His webbing dissolves after about a minute or two. In some comics he mentions that he can alter the formula so it lasts longer, but this massively dilutes it's tensile strength and effectiveness overall, and it still never become permanent.
It's only real usage is in non-lethal suppression work and rescue stuff like Peter does, where it would be pretty useful in limited situations.
>>82786071
You don't know what logic is, stop trying to justify your personal tastes by misusing that word.
>>82786193
Every minute. Not every hour.
>>82786212
It'd be useful in highly specific situations like riot suppression to non-lethally disable crowds and to support collapsing objects for rescues.
Basically it would be useful for firemen and cops and that's about it, and unfortunately as effective as it is the difference in effectiveness is largely mitigated by the fact that Spidey uses it best because he also has super-human agility and strength on top of it.
Note that it can only BRIEFLY restrain most of his superhumanly strong foes, and most can yank themselves out of it well before it dissolves at all and keep wrecking havoc.
>>82786272
>Note that it can only BRIEFLY restrain most of his superhumanly strong foes, and most can yank themselves out of it well before it dissolves at all and keep wrecking havoc.
In addition to this, while it CAN reach a considerable distance that's only when it's being shot as a thin stream that's only useful for his swinging stuff.
When it's shot in wider patterns to restrain people it's actually not much greater range then a taser is for instance, and since it'd be most useful on super-strong foes who can actually break out of it ANYWAY you'd left with being a normal guy within punching range of a guy who can rip through your restraints after about a second.
>>82786272
There's actually some research currently on using sticky foam as riot control.
And it's probably easier to use than web.
>>82786224
>a minute or two
the standard formula he uses lasts roughly one hour. If the stuff dissolved after just a minute there'd be no point in tying crooks to streetlights like he does
>>82784591
>How does a 15 year old with no money create such a crazy concept like web fluid and webshooters?
I haven't seen Civil War so I'm speaking of Spidey in general but I have this idea that the CONCEPT came with the powers actually. He has spider-sense which could be said to be inherited instinct in a way? What's not to say he inherited the instinctual knowledge of how to make spider-webs too?
>>82785277
Fuck I didn't realize I was the only one who though of that but I've said a million times before so maybe someone else clued on too.
...
Also speaking of Peter, I want him to grow up. I'm so sick of kid Spider-Man. I want him to grow into his fuller potential. Go totally Batman in a way. With his own headquarters/lair of sorts, way more gadgets, better training, a sidekick in Miles, "The Web" a temporary prison where he keeps villains and baddies wrapped up until the authorities arrive, like a spider keeps it's prey wrapped up for later.
Peter graduates from college, gets some venture capital from Stark and starts his own chemical/tech company Parker Chemical? We get all these inherited rich guy heroes but why not a self-made entrepreneur hero? Peter can be ripe for that.
I want to see what happens when Peter gets to the next level.
>>82786521
So you want Superior Spider-Man with Peter instead of Otto?
>>82786536
Yeah I guess, I figured someone was going to say that but I had something different in mind. No henchmen and all that stuff Otto had obviously, but maybe a support team. I hate to admit but Arrow and Flash got me liking the idea of a supporting cast that actively helps out in the super heroics. Peter has Miles and maybe Toxin and Kaine/Scarlett Spider (is he still around?). Maybe throw Hellcat on the team for old times sake. Explore the idea of the Spider-Family but in a way that's not all convoluted like Spider-Verse.
>>82786635
Just make a Spiderman and friends movie.
>>82786744
His AMAZING Friends, motherfucker.
Give Bobby and Angelica the adjective they deserve-slash-are-cribbing from Peter himself.
>>82786521
>Also speaking of Peter, I want him to grow up. I'm so sick of kid Spider-Man. I want him to grow into his fuller potential. Go totally Batman in a way. With his own headquarters/lair of sorts, way more gadgets, better training
You literally described the current ASM run. Peter is basically the new Tony Stark now that Tony's lost most of his money during the post-Secret Wars timeskip. He's running his own super science business, that business helps fund Spider-Man, who is even explained to the public as being Peter's bodyguard. The spider symbol on his suit even glows like an arc reactor.
>>82786328
Maybe it's just his pose, but guy seems to be happy as fuck doing this.
>>82787014
Oh is that why is glows? I hate that new outfit. I don't really read on-going stuff so that's why I didn't know. Or I just have psychic abilities and somehow managed to know things before I actually read about them. Happens all the time.
>>82785078
the fuck is that
>>82784591
Who honestly gives a fuck
>>82787646
Me, me, I do. And others. And every time somebody comes forward caring, you'll say "doesn't count" because you can't handle being wrong even when you open your mouth and spew bullshit without understanding what you're saying.
>>82785078
is that powered with oil or what?
>>82787669
Its an expression you literal autist
>>82787682
>>82787290
oil cooled computer.
ghetto edition
>>82787669
Why can't Spiderman just naturally produce webs?
Why is this such an enormous fucking issue for people to wrap their heads around? What's the problem with him producing his own webs? Is this some sort of "leap" that creators don't want to make or something?
He was bitten by a fucking spider.
Spiders don't have super fucking bug strength, but him getting WEB POWERS is somehow fucking outlandish?
Like, no, I do actually get really annoyed with this because if peter can just MAKE WEB SPINNERS than WHY DOES HE NEED TO GET BITTEN? You know? If he's just so fucking smart why doesn't just make a suit?
It wouldn't annoy me so much if it wasn't such an unnecessary complication.
>>82787771
It was to add drama with him running out of web. Also stresses his intelligence. Plus, as items theyre pretty cool
>>82787824
>It was to add drama with him running out of web.
Technically if he MAKES the web he can just constantly carry more webbing on himself because why wouldn't he? You know? Just make little cartridges and carry them in a pocket or something to switch out.
If it's something he produces NATURALLY though he can't very well stockpile it: he'd run out of webbing naturally just like how a person can't just continually poop forever.
>>82784591
A grown up and flat broke Peter that wanted to get back to doing Spider-man stuff managed to create webfluid and shooters with the use of about $16 worth of chemicals that you can buy from a grocery store and a lab composed of equipment he got from dumpster diving.
That's not really a whole lot.
>>82785722
>>82785576
Pym, but it was about the spider-tracer working on the frequency of his spider-sense.
It was actually chance, though, as originally the spider-tracers were working on normal frequencies, but at some point Peter did start noticing they were stimulating his spider-sense.
>>82786018
Wasn't he doing it in Big Time?
And more generally in every continuity where he stops being Spiderman actively.
>>82787771
Because Spiders don't shoot webs out of whatever would equate to their wrists. Saying "organic webs makes more sense" is just as nonsensical, if not even more so, than him not getting web powers from being bitten by a spider since there are indeed spiders that do not make use of webs.
>>82787859
>Just make little cartridges and carry them in a pocket or something to switch out.
That's exactly what he does. They run out too.
>>82787859
>I don't read comics
Almost forgot where I was for a second.
>>82786772
Add Chat as romantic interest and we've hit a gold mine
>>82787866
that was actually Ben but the point still stands.
The resulting webbing was kind of low-quality, though, engulfing the web-shooter or freezing.
But IT. CAN. BE. DONE!!!!!
>>82786054
all superhero comics is capeshit because caps were an iconc thing in comics
>>82787866
>>82787973
>>82788013
Thanks for backing it up. See OP, web fluid isn't really something that's gonna make you broke unless you were broke to begin with.
>>82787932
>since there are indeed spiders that do not make use of webs.
All spiders literally possess spinerettes.
The correct term would be: "All spiders produce silk, but not all spiders spin webs".
>Because Spiders don't shoot webs out of whatever would equate to their wrists.
Spiders also don't possess super human strength. (They don't even possess super strength by bug standards)
People also don't get super powers from getting bitten by radioactive spiders (they'd probably get, like a really bad rash though).
I dunno it just feels dumb.
It's dumb.
It's a needless, pointless, tack on dumb detail that makes the whole thing feel stupid because again: If peter can just make spider webs why can't he just make all his other spider powers? Iron Man built his first suit in a cave.
Like, okay, I'd be willing to meet you half way because -compromises- :
It would make SENSE if Peter could MAKE the webs naturally in his body, but couldn't "projectile" them per-say, so he invented the shooters to shoot them because otherwise he would basically have to literally crawl all over someone like a horrifying arachnid.
>>82788027
The problem isn't the cost itself, but the QUANTITY: decent web-fluid might be relatively cheap but Spidey uses A LOT of it.
It's a regular expense, at very least 20$\week.
Likely more given the frequency he has to use a lot of it.
>>82788062
But why would they come out of holes in his wrists? Your argument literally falls on "he should have organic webs because it makes sense" when the mere fact that it's a comic book character should already account for things to be nonsensical in the first place.
>>82787771
spiders do have super fucking bug strength spiders almost all insects can lift x times amount of there body size but pete is human size so he can lift x times amount of a 6'2 man
>>82785258
Its unreliable.
It might be useful as something like a non lethal weapon or cops. But even that is questionable because you'll essentially murder/maim somebody if it gets in their mouth, eyes, or ears.
The 1 hour limit is too unreliable for heavy equipment.
>>82784704
>The brokeness just makes it dumber by giving Pete revolutionary engineering skills but unable to make money off of them.
One does not automatically bring the other. Look up Nikola Tesla: created things that could be revolutionary even today, but he was always flat broke.
>>82788087
>Your argument literally falls on "he should have organic webs because it makes sense" when the mere fact that it's a comic book character should already account for things to be nonsensical in the first place.
I think it's important I sort of just repeat my main point/problem with this whole setup:
If Peter parker can artificially replicate and manufacture what is effectively the most utilitarian and one of the more amazing portions of his "power" than why does he need to be bitten by a spider at all to be spider man?
Do you understand where I'm coming from? Like, that's why it bothers me so much: If he's so fucking smart as to produce this spectacular and amazing quality replica-spider-silk.. Why can't he just manufacture the rest of his powers?
You know? What's the point of the spider?
I feel like it's just a pointless, clunky, complication that just pokes holes in everything than adds to the character.
>>82788111
>spiders do have super fucking bug strength spiders almost all insects can lift x times amount of there body size but pete is human size so he can lift x times amount of a 6'2 man
Do they??
I thought it was only Beetles and Ants wot get all the amazing strength?
>>82788087
>But why would they come out of holes in his wrists?
There's no good argument for why they shouldn't.
>>82788062
Lets assume that he what you say actually happened.
What sort of evolutionary advantage does webs that disappear after an hour give you?
So what would the web shooters do then? Suck them out of his wrists and propel them?
Why would they specifically come out of his hands and not his ass like in actual spiders?
Spider Man and his webshooters might be dumb as fuck if you analyse everything, but like Pym Particles, you can understand they make sense in the universe.
You have to make a lot more assumptions for Organic webs to make sense
>>82788185
>If Peter parker can artificially replicate and manufacture what is effectively the most utilitarian and one of the more amazing portions of his "power" than why does he need to be bitten by a spider at all to be spider man?
Because his Spider-sense and wall crawling things aren't gadgets. It's as simple as that.
>>82788192
There's no good argument for why he can't have mechanical webshooters either. Because he's a fictional character. See what I'm getting at here? Claiming "it makes sense" for fictional characters in a fictional universe is one of the weakest defenses for one's ideas.
>>82786328
One step closer.
>>82788195
Not that anon but I think that organic shooters make more narrative sense.
Boy gets bitten by radioactive spider - develops spider-like abilities just seems clearer than: boy gets bitten by radioactive spider - develops some spider-like abilities (apart from probably the most iconic characteristic of the species) and then develops said characteristically independently because he is also a science genius.
I feel like its overloading the character.
Also, the idea of Parker swinging around on webs makes sense for a writer and artist trying to make a character seem 'spider-like'. Why would Peter himself do it - unless he was given the ability biologically?
You have two separate ways of this character getting abilities that make him 'spider-like'. Just seems sloppy and contrived.
>>82788195
>What sort of evolutionary advantage does webs that disappear after an hour give you?
It's a mutant super-power, so there's no reason why they can't just write it in as being faulty or imperfect.
He also didn't "EVOLVE" his power: his power is not natural in origin so strictly speaking it doesn't have to be perfect- that's what mutations are about really.
The good ones stay, the bad ones get bred out- Peter parker is making good of what he has.
>So what would the web shooters do then? Suck them out of his wrists and propel them?
Take your pick: Maybe he pre-spins the webs into litttle doo-hickys and the shooters just shoot it out like high-pressure fishing line or something.
I'd imagine getting the web-shooters to suck the webbing out of his wrists would be horribly uncomfortable; like someone digging their finger too deep in your bellybutton.
>Why would they specifically come out of his hands and not his ass like in actual spiders?
God, maybe they would?
Maybe he just farts it out at home, puts it in the cartridges, puts the cartridges in the web-spinners and goes out like that.
>>82788219
>Because his Spider-sense and wall crawling things aren't gadgets. It's as simple as that.
You're missing the point dude: If the webs can be gadgets than there's no reason anything else he can do can't be as well.
>>82788282
I worded that really badly.
>>82787691
Context? How did he get back to status quo?
>>82788288
>You're missing the point dude: If the webs can be gadgets than there's no reason anything else he can do can't be as well.
And you're missing the point as well. If he's a fictional character there's no reason that his powers can't be a mix of gadgetry and a source of a different type, like how Doom uses both magic and tech.
>>82788282
Maybe a clearer way of putting what I mean is:
Imagine if in Star Wars Luke had access to 'the force' but it wasn't the thing that allowed him to levitate shit. That was a separate power that he used a little gadget for - and there's exposition in the films that attempts to explain why Luke carries around this thing to help him float things around.
People might argue that in this case - the force is something more psychological and precognitive - whereas his gadget do-dad is more physical.
My point is - you've already established one narrative contrivance to give this hero abilities - as long as they thematically work together - they might as well be combined.
Makes more narrative sense to me.
>>82788362
Really, Luke "I use blasters, lightsabers, x-wings, AND the force" Skywalker is your great end all be all example?
If he has the force then why does he need to use a blaster or a lightsaber? Why doesn't he just use the force to knock everyone on their asses?
>>82788320
>like how Doom uses both magic and tech.
It's interesting that you use that example because I'm mostly just motivated by what I think is "the coolest" option.
I think the man-made web-shooter is dumb for the reasons I've stated numerous times, but at the heart of this I don't think it's "cool". I think it's "lame".
It's much more interesting and visceral if spider man spins and produces webs he himself makes from his body; it would make him feel more SPIDERY and also kind of disgusting.
It's a disgusting power.
That's kind of the appeal.
>>82788282
>I feel like its overloading the character.
With what? Metaphor? Conflicting origin stories? Overloading with your personal dislike and confusion?
Because the origin they gave him worked pretty well for him for the last fifty-odd years of comic book publication and made him one of the most successful and notable superheroes in comic book history up until today, where he is STILL extremely famous.
>You have two separate ways of this character getting abilities that make him 'spider-like'. Just seems sloppy and contrived.
Granted, but then you have to change the origins of every comic book character ever. ALL of their stories are full of ridiculously arbitrary contrivances for the sake of making their function as "superheroes" work.
The issue with the Realism Trap is that putting on a costume and punching random dudes and hoping shit works for you is about the least realistic or productive thing you could ever do with said powers.
That's not even a bad thing though; these characters WERE created for young kids to read and thus have a strong element of fantasy and whimsy to them.
If you saw the Raimi movies first or came onto comics after he temporarily had organic shooters because of The Other storyline, just say so. You aren't the first person to no personally like something because it's different from what you're familiar with and it's a completely legitimate reason to dislike it too no matter what /co/ says.
>>82788411
>If he has the force then why does he need to use a blaster or a lightsaber? Why doesn't he just use the force to knock everyone on their asses?
Different Anon, but wasn't the deal with Luke was that he was "not good" at the force?
Like, he was just trying to pick up the Force and all this magic space shit, but in the mean time using a gun, lightsaber, x-wing, etc.. That's the shit that's carrying him until he could move onto shooting lightning out of his finger tips and telekentically crippling people or whatever.
If I had to maybe use a better starwars anaology in the same line as the other Anons:
Peter making Web-spinners AND the webbing artificially is like how the starwars prequels explained the force via midichlorians; it just sort of cheapens the experience.
Peter making the webs and spinning them himself via his own weird, confusing, horrifying and animalistic spider-powers is like the force remaining this mystical, scary, obscure magical bullshit.
It sets a presidence and expectations is all.
>>82788411
I genuinely appreciated your response anon. I've been thinking to myself if there are examples that contradict what I'm saying and you've just pointed out why that's probably in Luke himself. I mostly just drew on the idea closest to hand.
My response would be that the lightsabers use are actually tied into the force (I might be remembering that wrong - I'm not the biggest Star Wars fan). Acting as a pilot and using a blaster also aren't considered 'powers' that are unusual.
So I'd have no problem with Parker learning to fly a helicopter or even shoot a gun (apart from the obvious contradictions of his character)... as in they're learned skills that a lot of people might have... But the swinging around on webs is something remarkable - that (apart from other Spider-folk) only he does.
In the same way that Luke might use a pen and paper but I don't think that contradicts his identity as a Jedi.apologies if this makes no sense -I'm just typing what comes into my head
>>82788362
>Makes more narrative sense to me.
There is no such thing as "narrative sense" as there are hundreds of different kinds of narratives that don't necessarily follow the same track or logic of thought.
Many (while perhaps not to your taste) are extremely successful despite this and their authors will continue to be famous long after you or I are dead most likely.
>>82788449
>That's kind of the appeal.
Appeal is subjective.
What appeals to one does not automatically appeal to another, which is why human beings have different opinions in the first place.
What you mean to say is that you DISLIKE a certain thing as an individual, which is completely legitimate.
>>82788462
I think the film's had a greater sense of economy for storytelling that I appreciate.
I'm also one of those fuckers that would have preferred it in Raimi's films if the Goblin serum had been related to the spider testing. I think they screw that relationship up in both the Amazing films and Ultimate Spider-Man but it's still what I'd choose to do.
I'm not actually angry - or even think its bad. It literally is just my opinion.
>>82788496
But his body making the webs is the midichlorian example!
Peter had to work hard to make his webs artificially as well as the web shooters. It also opens up to other ways to use his webs. He also has to use the webs wisely since they could run out.
His body making them would remove the smarts from him and would make him more of an X-Men character
>>82788449
And I think organic is dumb because the decades of comics we've had goes to show that mere webbing isnt enough to deal with his rogues gallery, and the improvements he's done to his webs allows a showcase of his genius and ingenuity.
>fight electro, develop insulated webbing
>fight hydro man, make water absorbent webbing
>fight sandman, develop webbing with corrosive elements
>and so on and so forth
These are things you can't do with organic webbing without dipping into the same OC Donutsteel swimming pool that Slott swims in.
>>82788498
>So I'd have no problem with Parker learning to fly a helicopter or even shoot a gun (apart from the obvious contradictions of his character)... as in they're learned skills that a lot of people might have
Yet you have problems with Peter learning to create a "gun" (the webshooters) that he uses to "fly" (web swing)? Anon you can learn to swing on a rope, its not that hard. You can learn to create a webshooter. Hell we have toys that do the same with silly string in a very diminished capacity.
>>82788507
I'm not prescribing to one single narrative structure that precludes any form of abstract ideas. But I don't think that means I shouldn't be able to discuss narrative logic or continuity.
I don't necessarily think every story has to revolve around archetypal figures and roles but they're still useful notions to use to describe structure anyway.
In this case, narrative sense reflects the way that I make sense of the narrative.
Sorry if you thought I was attempting to enforce doctrine upon the art of storytelling.
>>82788575
>>82788589
>But the customized webbing and creation show of his ingenuity that organic webbing couldn't!
I disagree, but I see your point.
I still remain on the stand point of organic webbing being better simply because if he "can x his y than why would he z?"
But this brings up another aspect:
Spider man dealing with his various enemies while still working within the limitations and constraints of his own powers would still just as easily -if perhaps even more- demonstrate his intelligence and planning capabilities.
Spider man constantly customizing his webbings using his own intelligence and designing skills is all well and good, but in it's own way makes him sort of "predictable" in the sense that Spider man now has an aspect of "prep time" and it become a situation of just, "oh, well, spider man can just change to his 'x' flavored spider webs in his utility belt," etc.. etc..
If his Webs are organic he doesn't have that dues ex machinima.
He has to work with what he's got.
Though in everyone's defense: I think we've reached a point where we both have good opinions and this could be argue to fucking DEATH because realistically we're both "right" and this is all just a tug of war of "preference".
>>82788754
Debates are boring if only one person is correct
>>82788754
It makes you more rational then most people in this board so that's nothing to sniff at.
Most people on here would rather cut their dicks off (or whatever) and shove them up their own asses before they admit that subjective opinions are a thing.
Kudos for rising above that bullshit.
>>82788449
>It's much more interesting and visceral if spider man spins and produces webs he himself makes from his body; it would make him feel more SPIDERY and also kind of disgusting.
On this note it would have made that moment where (I think) Falcon asks peter something a long the lines of, "Is this stuff coming out of you?" A lot more awkward and amusing.
It would be funny because I could see Peter getting seriously bothered by that: him getting caught off guard that people find him shooting "webs" at them gross and peter proceeding to become really awkward about it because now he's self conscious about the whole thing.
>>82788064
Are you people fucking retarded it's not like he gets 5 fucking dollars a week why wouldn't real upclose SPIDERMAN pictures go for a bit even if your boss is an asshole
>>82788183
Yes but Tesla was famously asocial and probably didn't see the value in becoming stinking rich. Spider-Man has been motivated by making money since day 1.
>>82788305
he hasn't yet.
He's also currently being mercilessly hunted by the Decepticon Justice Division.
>>82788320
Doom uses both magic and tech because Doom is a genius on an endless search for more power and he doesn't care where it comes from.
Spiderman making himself artificial web shooters after getting spider powers makes it obvious that he made an effort to get his power set to match thematically, like he's not taking things seriously and cares more about the aesthetics of things than actual effectiveness. It makes you wonder what other superhero-level gadgets he could make but chooses not to because they're not spidery enough.
>>82789075
>It makes you wonder what other superhero-level gadgets he could make but chooses not to because they're not spidery enough.
It really doesn't. Ever since he's become CEO of Parker Industries he's at least made the following : an armored spider suit for Miguel that is every bit as thin as the regular suits, a spider suit that he wears in the same exact way that Tony has been wearing his more recent armors instead of putting them on like long johns, a new spider-buggy, a "hydro spider", glider wings for Mockingbird, and a pretty fancy internet ready wrist computer. As CEO he's stepped out of the "spidery" shadows.
Why sell your formula and schematics when they could be reverse engineered to fuck you over later?
>>82787771
You literally can't into toys, can't you? You can't sell natural organic webbing
>>82789242
Why would any genius supervillain have difficulty "reverse-engineering" something a nerdy kid threw together in his basement?
Mechanical webshooters are just fucking dumb from a narrative standpoint. Biological webshooters are the way to go.
>>82789179
So he's a totally different hero. Hmm, that's great. Clearly mechanical webshooters are a great idea, since they logically progress to an extreme that turns the character into a different one.
>>82787824
>It was to add drama with him running out of web.
They can do that with biological webbing.
>Also stresses his intelligence.
His use of tactics and those little radio trackers can do that without being completely retarded like webshooters are.
>Plus, as items theyre pretty cool
At the expense of making the character lame as fuck.
>>82789295
>since they logically progress to an extreme that turns the character into a different one.
How so? You asked what other gadgets could he make that he doesn't because they aren't "spidery" enough. I told you he makes plenty of gadgets that aren't "spidery" enough, just that for the most part he isn't the one that uses them.
>>82789279
They actually have before.
It's just not very useful to most of 'em.
>>82789179
Notice how most of those things are spider themed? Now compare with other in-universe geniuses' inventions. What ratio of spider-themed inventions would one expect from such a genius if he didn't limit himself to a theme for artistic reasons? Furthermore, those are later inventions. What are the odds that his first invention would be spider themed if he didn't actively choose to stick to his theme?
>>82785679
It's been discussed over and over and over and over and over. Stop beating a dead horse.
>>82789384
>Now compare with other in-universe geniuses' inventions.
None of Iron man's inventions have to do with pressing laundry.
>>82789318
>At the expense of making the character lame as fuck.
It's funny because that means he was lame since before you were even born and thus was never at cool character at all except for roughly a year of comic books that I'm pretty sure you never actually subscribed to or read anyway. And during that year he STILL used his web-shooters anyway.
I'd also like to have a talk with you on the nature of subjectivity and objectivity, but I get the feeling you won't particularly care or listen.
>>82789384
>Notice how most of those things are spider themed
Of the lot I mentioned the only things "spider-themed" are the looks of Miggy's suit, the looks of the hydro-spider, and the spider-buggy. Miguel's suit having flight and invisibility tech makes it a suit that could literally fit for any other "theme" should they decide to change the paint on it. There's nothing particularly "spidery" about the way Tony's armor get's summoned to him, and Mocking Bird having gliders doesn't equate to spider stuff either. All in all that's really just 2 out of 6 things mentioned that can be considered bang on as being spider-related.
Do you think it will ever be possible to make actually Spidey tier webs with this shit ?
>>82789712
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the spider buggy and hydro spider capable of clinging to walls to mimic Spidey's wall crawling spider powers?
>>82786224
Actually I think in Superior Spider-Man Spock mentions he modified it to last forever.
Just saying organic webbing makes more sense.
So, can any of you faggots explain why the webbing isn't coming out of his ass?
Fucking Raimifags I swear.
>>82784591
Philo Farnsworth invented television at 14.
Your argument is invalid.
Inventor Pete forever.
>>82785679
>magic makes more sense than engineering
No it doesn't.
>>82791732
Sure, just as soon as you explain why he retains the relative strength of a spider at human size when the strength of the spider is derived from the square-cube relation between strength and body mass and spiders have such inefficient muscles that a human-sized spider wouldn't even be able to move.
>>82792020
It does if you've already asserted that he has magic spider powers.
>>82792114
But he already is super intelligent. The argument that he should be making millions of dollars off of his inventions when he isn't inventing, he is fighting crime, is stupid. Peter Parker is smart as hell but he doesn't typically apply it to anything monetary.
>>82785277
>A lot of versions say that the spider bite, while not giving him organic webbing, gave him the innate knowledge of how to make webbing. He didn't really think of the idea 100% himself. It became an instinctual thing
That's so much stupider and more convoluted than just giving him organic webbing. It's more ridiculous by several orders of magnitude.
>>82789337
>for the most part he isn't the one that uses them.
Why doesn't he use them? Oh, that's right, because it wouldn't fit his aesthetic. That makes tons of sense and is a great character concept choice.
>>82789400
>It's funny because that means he was lame since before you were even born and thus was never at cool character at all except for roughly a year of comic books that I'm pretty sure you never actually subscribed to or read anyway. And during that year he STILL used his web-shooters anyway.
He's cool when you can ignore how stupid the web-shooters are.
>I'd also like to have a talk with you on the nature of subjectivity and objectivity, but I get the feeling you won't particularly care or listen.
Oh wow you are sad. Do you think your post brought any new information or arguments to the table? You're basically just screeching at me in a pathetic autistic manner.
"REEEEEEEE HE ALWAYS HAD THE WEBSHOOTER SO IT'S COOL REEEEEEEE I JUST TOOK PHILOSOPHY 101 AND MY PROFESSOR SAYS PEOPLE WITH OPINIONS I DON'T LIKE ARE WRONG"
>>82792150
That's fucking dumb. He chooses to live as a freelance photographer instead of making Reed Richards his bitch because...??? Why does it seem like all the ideas that come attached with mechanical webshooters are really fucking dumb? I feel like there's a pattern here.
>>82792150
There a lot of super intelligent people in his world, yet the one with magic spider powers just so happens to be the only one who invents non-magic spider powers and immediately after getting his magic spider powers at that? Seems a bit far-fetched to me.
>>82788183
See
>>82788918
Tesla was more or less uninterested in wealth and got boned out of huge sums of money anyway.
His family claims the deal he'd signed with Westinghouse for royalties per kilowatt of AC power produced was never made invalid (And would have sent Tesla skyrocketing into Rockefeller-tier money, but Westinghouse says it was either never signed or torn up.
>>82792366
>yet the one with magic spider powers just so happens to be the only one who invents non-magic spider powers and immediately after getting his magic spider powers at that? Seems a bit far-fetched to me.
It's called inspiration.
Give a genius in a cave a bunch mortors and iron plates and he'll become obsessed with exo-armor. Give a genius a reason to be obsessed with spiders and he will study and invent stuff related to spiders.
>>82792304
>tice how most of those things are spider >>82792150
>>82792114
>>82792254
>>82792221
>>82792221
>>82792183
Is anyone else turned on by the idea of peter producing silk out of his ass? lol me neither haha. It's pretty funny though haha. and when he uses it he gets all embarassed and stuff, lol
Does anyone know where you could find images of that though? I'm not gay.
>>82792304
>He chooses to live as a freelance photographer instead of making Reed Richards his bitch because...??
Because taking pictures of himself takes almost no time. He just wants enough money to get by without taking up time from his crime fighting.
>>82792304
>That's fucking dumb. He chooses to live as a freelance photographer instead of making Reed Richards his bitch because.
He has a passion for journalism and the job is a lot easier to juggle with being a superhero than being somebody's lab assistant.
Both of these points have been extolled several times in the comics.
>>82785066
In the immortal words of Akon "Still counts."
>>82784591
His original webshooters looked like modded watches. The webfluid was originally kept in those little glass containers you can buy from a hobby/medical supply place for a few bucks. The fluid itself was the only mystery and the whole point of the webfluid is that it is something relatively simple that Peter figured out by his body instinctively knowing how to produce web fluid but lacking the biological parts.
In the comics, one of the main reasons he is always so poor is because he spends all of his money on his crimefighting gear. He is a highly skilled photographer who is able to get amazing shots of superheroes fighting villains. If he wasn't stuck in New York and he was willing to go more freelance, he would be able to make a LOT of money. Hell, just taking shots of his wife MJ for her modeling career would have net him six figures a year probably.
>>82785078
Does the machine actually work while in boiling grease?
Again, spinnerettes in his forearms would be grotesque and make too many problems trying to displace muscle and bone.
Peter being clever and intelligent enough to invent or repurpose something else into web-shooters is a far more reasonable assumption to accept.
I think that people are only hung up on organic webbing because it "feels" more thematic to have a physical mutation that more clearly resembles a spider, and they're likely casuals whose first big exposure to Spider-Man was the Raimi movies and they can't process the difference between their experience of the character and the actual history of the character.
>>82788161
>It might be useful as something like a non lethal weapon or cops. But even that is questionable because you'll essentially murder/maim somebody if it gets in their mouth, eyes, or ears.
Pete hasn't ever had that sort of trouble handling it since 1962. Even with the sliding timescale, he's been slinging webs without accidentally suffocating anyone since he was a teen.
And Pete was something of a massive fuck up in those days.
>>82791639
no it doesn't
>>82792910
The machine IS what's boiling the grease
>>82784704
Funny enough, Peter actually did try to sell the web fluid formula at one point. While the companies he showed it to were impressed by its capabilities, they lost interest when they learned that it dissolved in an hour. Never mind that there are actually many applications for temporary adhesives, and as SpOck proved when a newly-returned Peter was using some of Otto's leftover web fluid cartridges, the formula can be modified to last longer.
>>82794263
Pete's accretcy is protected by COMICS in that respect.
Its the same reason its only been brought up once that peter leaving people webbed up to a lamp post and leaving the scene creates the perfect lawyer defense.
>>82785529
Fanboys and current writers put him into Tony Stark genius category. If you're going to characterize him that way then it makes sense for him to use that trait to make money which to be fair is what Slott is doing and has been doing since he was at Horizon, though many people seem to dislike this.
>>82785562
And this sort of thought process just makes him come off as a manchild.
>>82786319
But If you're not relying on speed and agility as Peter does then there's no reason you can't have a web shooter the size of a flame thrower strapped to your back. You could just keep pouring it on until your opponent goes down.
>>82792221
What does any of this goalpost shifting matter? You asked what does he not make just because they're not spider-themed, I pointed out that in recent times he makes non spider-themed stuff too, just that he isn't the one that uses them.
>>82796678
The argument made in >>82789075
was that it makes him look like he's not taking things seriously and cares more about the aesthetics of things than actual effectiveness. This argument still stands if he makes all these wonderful gadgets, but won't use them because they don't fit his spider theme.
>>82785320
It's been ~14 years in-universe.
