Whoa whoa whoa.
A lunatic in a suicide vest kills sixteen civilians and everyone loses their mind, but the Elon Musk of the WMD world destroys a sovereign nation and everyone shrugs their shoulders?
>>82741637
Remember when shadowy world leaders wanted to nuke New York?
>>82741691
Remember when those people were probably arrested after the events of Winter Soldier?
>>82741691
Remember when your mom's snatch was fucked by my weiner, you stupid fucking asshole?
>>82741711
No. How can you arrest a corpse?
>>82741977
Point being. Those people were exposed to the world and are no longer a danger, so I don't see how that exonerates what Stark did in Age of Ultron, and how he got away with it scot free.
>>82742037
Because no one outside of the Avengers or their close associates (and possibly Klaue) knew he had a hand in Ultron's creation?
>>82741711
Nah, one of those was Gideon Malick, who proceeded to lead a faction of HYDRA into bringing back an ancient HYDRA death god who is currently in the process of trying to take over the world.
I mean, Malick is dead now so he got his come-uppance, but authorizing the nuking of NYC clearly didn't effect his positioning enough that he wasn't able to just keep on being a villain and HYDRA head.
>>82742471
Doesn't that make them accessories? Certainly doesn't clear Stark from any wrongdoing.
>>82743207
Scot-free or not, Tony's obvious guilt is what makes him act the way he does in CW. I thought it worked pretty well.
>>82746341
"Your honor, I may have destroyed millions of lives, caused untold amounts of property damage and lead to a massive destabilization in the global economy, but in my defense, I feel really bad about it. I've lost a lot of sleep about it, and it weighs heavily on my conscience."
>>82746436
Oh yeah, because the avengers have operated within the law so far Tony's obviously gonna turn himself in or be turned in by his totally inlaw associates.
>>82746503
There's a world of difference between the sort of actions that the Avengers have engaged in (the two other examples from the movie being Loki's attack on New York and HYDRA's takeover of SHIELD, neither of which can be blamed on the Avengers at all), and the shit that Tony did in Age of Ultron.
>>82741637
I thought Sokovia was the driving force behind the Sokovia Accords
>>82746607
What tony did was accidentally create an AI and then do everything in his power to stop it.
And New York was the direct result of Thor's actions in Thor. He's an avenger. DC had them use Widow's files to blackmail themselves out of a trial.
Either way, they all operate outside the law, and whether Tony should be judged or not has literally nothing to do with the point I made faggot.
>>82746607
I don't know, speaking of culpability I'd say taking Banner to the vicinity of that african city and letting him loose was not really much different from creating Ultron himself.
come watch it on swimelodeon.com
and argue there
>>82746742
Nothing that Thor did in any way shape or form invited Loki's attack on New York, while Tony created a peace keeping AI without any oversight or authorization from anyone whose name isn't Tony Stark. What happened in Sokovia is entirely Tony's fault.
>>82746777
Except that the amount of damage that Banner did as the Hulk is a drop in the bucket compared to what Stark did in Sokovia.
>>82746819
>Nothing that Thor did in any way shape or form invited Loki's attack on New York.
Defeating Loki sent him to Thanos, who gave him the means to exact his revenge on Thor's now-beloved earth-realm.
>What happened in Sokovia is entirely Tony's fault.
About as much as thor's guilty for Loki's actions, i.e. only incidentally.
>>82746819
>Except that the amount of damage that Banner did as the Hulk is a drop in the bucket compared to what Stark did in Sokovia.
Your honor we caused millions of dollars in damage and uncounted casualties but it's okay because worse shit has happened.
>>82746935
So, if I piss off my little brother, and that causes him to go on a shooting spree, that's equivalent to creating an untested peacekeeping artificial intelligence program, without any oversight whatsoever, only to see it go completely renegade? I'm not saying that Ultron's actions are Tony's actions, I'm just saying that Tony is the one who made Ultron. He did it all on his own, without any help, and without any authorization.
If I built a nuclear device and just handed it off to someone else, I would still be taken to the Hague for having my fingerprints all over the device that killed millions.
>Your honor we caused millions of dollars in damage and uncounted casualties but it's okay because worse shit has happened.
Hey, I'm not saying that no one should care about what Hulk did, I'm just saying that it doesn't really enter into the conversation when we're talking about shit that Stark's done.
>>82747057
>So, if I piss off my little brother, and that causes him to go on a shooting spree, that's equivalent to creating an untested peacekeeping artificial intelligence program, without any oversight whatsoever, only to see it go completely renegade?
Both are tragic results of well-meaning actions that went horribly accidental and wrong. Thor indirectly caused his brother's resentment as tony indirectly caused Ultron's madness. And honestly, I'm not sure how the legislation stands on AI criminals.
>>82746814
>implying that site even werks
>>82747057
>I'm just saying that it doesn't really enter into the conversation when we're talking about shit that Stark's done.
Why not? My point is all of them are in so much legal hot water that it's kind of hypocritical to expect any of them to turn any of their own, and if they didn't operate extralegaly they wouldn't be effective anyway.
>>82747156
Okay, let's take a look at the alternate timeline that was created through the creation of Ultron. In this timeline, Tony Stark, once again without any oversight or say-so from anyone that isn't him, took it upon himself to create a peacekeeping AI. Ultron would then be invincible, immortal and completely unstoppable. The world would be in a police state that it cannot escape from, for the rest of time.
Is what Tony Stark did in that alternate timeline even remotely okay? Even in the best case scenario, what Tony did was completely inexcusable.
>>82747280
I have no idea what you're talking about. But if the Avengers solely operated within the boundaries of the law, New York would be a radioactive hole.
>>82747339
Stopping an alien threat is worlds apart from creating a police state watched over by an artificial intelligence that no one asked for.
>>82747377
No one official asked for them to stop the Nuke. Should they not have?
>>82747407
...should they have saved millions of lives to stop a nuclear missile launched by HYDRA?
>>82741637
A. It's called the SOKOVIA ACCORDS for a reason.
B. He's not the only one responsible.
C. Wanda released the Hulk on a civilian population out of spite. I'm surprised they aren't fucking hounding the Avengers harder for harboring her.
>>82747462
Should they? The higher ups were directly against it. They removed Fury from command for opposing it.
>>82747519
Are you really saying that the creation of Ultron is on the same level as stopping HYDRA from nuking New York in an attempt to stop Loki's invasion?
>>82746819
>What happened in Sokovia is entirely Tony's fault.
And Wandas.
People like to forget the part where she played with his mind and let him take the staff specifically because she knew he would do something horrible in desperation.
>>82741637
Stark also saved a city once from the very same kind of authority that wanted the Avengers as their attack dogs. The world still owes him for that, so this just kind of put him in their bad graces instead of just made him a pariah.
There's also the fact that he's not solely responsible. He's the biggest contributor, but not the only cultprit
>>82747556
>>82747509
Nah, she blew up some tin can robots in the end so she's a good guy now. All forgiven.
>>82747554
I am saying that both were technically illegal acts. One was good, one was bad. Does the law only apply if the result is not the best one? How convenient.
>>82747556
>that cute evil smile
Evil Wanda >>> innocent needs a dad Wanda
It is known.
>>82747407
Nick Fury explicitly asked Stark to top the nuke.
>>82747643
Agreed. Markus and McFeely Wanda is too much of a victim. Whedon Wanda has a bit of danger in her.
>>82747638
Ooooooookaaaaaay...
>>82747676
Nick Fury was NOT in command.
>>82747700
What's so difficult? The law is the law.
>>82741637
>A lunatic in a suicide vest kills sixteen civilians and everyone loses their mind, but the Elon Musk of the WMD world destroys a sovereign nation and everyone shrugs their shoulders?
Why am I reading this in Heath Ledger's Joker's voice?
>>82742037
Tony was working on creating an AI that would assist in protecting the world. He has Banner there to prove he didn't even reach that point. The AI became self aware and started learning on its own.
Do we punish parents for the crimes of their children? Anything Ultron did after Tony left for the party is purely Ultron's fault.
>>82741637
I don't see how anyone could say shit about Wanda. Crossbones was in the middle of a crowd, she tried to get him away from the crowd, it didn't save everyone but she saved all those people who were watching him fight Cap.
She didn't try to hurt anyone, she tried to save people and she wasn't able to save everyone.
>>82747757
>The law is the law.
Lol no it isn't
>>82741743
Remember when you turned 14? Of course you don't, it hasn't happened yet.
>>82748595
Honestly, this. This guy pretty much summed it up perfectly.
Stark was building the AI to compensate for the fact that there was no more SHIELD and that he and his Avengers couldn't be everywhere at once. Ultron isn't Stark, he's a result of his own judgement of humanity and the mind stone's influence.Post yfw Thanos reveals that he created Ultron to fracture the Avengers in preparation for his arrival.
>>82746341
I think from the team rosters in Civil War, we can be pretty sure that Tony is Scott-free.
Debate friends and I had: does Iron Man blast Falcon after War Machine falls out of spite/anger or to bring him in? If Falcon said he surrendered, would Iron Man still have blasted him? What would Cap do if the tables were turned and he was in Tony's position, and Falcon and Rhodes' roles were switched?
>>82748775
Wanda couldn't read Ultron's mind - he wasn't a man, he was a machine. Another one of Stark's weapons - he just happened to be run by a super advanced computer. Vision on the other hand, had an actual mind.
>>82749307
You don't understand what an AI is, do you?
>>82741743
nice one
>>82742471
Klaw certainly had a hand in it... :)
>>82749259
I think it's very obvious that Tony isn't capable of being impartial enough for that shot to not have been entirely personal.
That's another one of Tony's biggest flaws: he's incapable of objectivity and impartiality.
>>82749105
Heh
>>82742629
We're talking about the MCU, not the AoS verse.
>>82741637
They've been drafting the accords since Sokovia, hence the name. They chose the Lagos incident to spring them on the Avengers.
>>82741637
People definitely cared about Sokovia. It's the villain's entire motivator.
And given how fuckhuge the accords were, I seriously doubt that the Nigeria incident from like a day before is what prompted the UN to write them.
>>82748668
>She didn't try to hurt anyone,
Well, not that particular time.
>>82749307
She could read Ultron's mind after he started downloading it into Vision.
He very obviously is a sentient, thinking being. The architecture of his "brain" is just too different from a fleshy human brain for Wanda to read. Vision's brain, on the other hand, is synthetic human flesh mixed with vibranium.
>>82750825
>>82749259
it was obvious that it was personal, falcon was basically giving himself up to make sure Rhodes was fine when he could have realistically tried to escape but Tony had to take the shot.
> Watching HITB review
> First thing Rich shouts is how could anyone not be on Ironman's side
> Mfw
At least Rich and Jay made arguments for both sides.
During the meeting where they first introduce the accords I just wanted one character to get up and call bullshit.
> HERRR 16 PEPES DIES!
> You mean as opposed to the dozens on the ground that would have died?
> HERRR A COUPLE HUNDRED PEPES DIES!
> You mean as opposed to LITERALLY EVERYONE DYING!
>>82747693
That's what cheeky Elder God's are for, anon.
Is there sense in Vision's analysis and conclusion that there is a direct correlation to there being supervillianous acts after there being superheroes?
That sounds to me like the Batman villian's gallery theory.
>>82747693
Its refreshing to see Wanda portrayed sympathetically after years of Bendis, Millar, and Remender trashing her. It's like feeling and smelling a glorious breeze after years of smelly poo.
Captain America and Hawkeye believe in her, and that is what gives her strength, Markus McFeely and Russos are following her arc in the comics where she overcomes and grows into a stronger person through believing in herself and her friends.
>>82748253
It's all part of the plan.
>>82751171
Funny thing is that due to Sam's MCU background as Pararescue, Falcon is a certified paramedic; Tony basically blasted away an emergency medical specialist trained to deal with traumatic and spinal injuries.
>>82751180
it grinds me gears how they thought cap's decision was solely to defend bucky
>>82751401
Im so disappointed Rhodes didn't die
>>82749105
nice
>>82741637
#blacklivesmatter
>>82751180
Rich was so fucking stupid. How could anyone think the Accords was a good idea. The last time it was up to the government to decide how to win a battle, they tried to fucking nuke New York.
>>82751382
Honestly, after what we've seen in the comics, the very fact that in AoU after she fucked up she actually finished the movie as a hero and helped stop the villain she contributed to was a breath of fresh air. I agree that it's a good thing we're following her arc of gradually growing up, rather than just becoming worse and worse.
>>82751382
You know the witch is a fithy mutie, right?
>>82751382
>>82751401
>>82751439
>>82751456
>>82751466
It all good in the hood until some supernigga comes crashing thru your neighboorhood. Thanks Wanda.
>>82751439
Letting a gang of unelected superhumans ignore the law whenever they deem necessary sets a very dangerous precedent.
>>82748668
They hate her for being aWitch, that's the subtext.
You can imagine the religious fundies in Iran, USA, Israel, Saudi Arabia, etc, losing their collective shit over Wanda. You Just Know.
UN effectively reinstating Witch-burning, its like they are SET on it kek.
>>82750825
He should have shot at Vision if he was angry. Shoot the guy who crippled Rhodey.
How can Tony be sure Vision did not deliberately attack Rhodes given he is Ultron Vanilla Flava?
>>82751020
But no one gives a shit about Sokovia...actually that fits because politicians do that "we care and r so sadz" BS all the time to pass laws.
How the fuck did they get the line up so fucking wrong in that poster?
>>82751423
The artbook suggests that the film should have been more brutal, with even the Vision who deliberately chooses to betray Tony.
At the end they must have thought it was too edgy.
Yeah are makeing infinity war 1 and 2 a docter strange a and gardians of the Galaxy 2
>>82751068
Even Zemo (it was more about his family) and Wanda (with no family, so no feeling of attachment anymore) don't seem to care much.
Not even calling the crater Wundagore.
Wakanda is important to the story, Sokovia is just nothing really, we don't even know if it has a functioning government.
>>82751698
You hit the nail on the head, man. No one gives a shit about dead slavs or Nigerians. They're using this as a platform to jump off from to keep super-people in check. I feel that the kill squad the used against Bucky was part of that. There was no need to send ordinary humans in to kill him, instead of sending Rhodey or someone else in to arrest him, since there's almost no risk to him, but that would mean putting the heroics in the hands of superheroes again. Better to just eliminate an enhanced person who's a threat using regular forces, and make an end of it, while showing your strength as a governing body.
>>82751240
Ironically Vision is the biggest villain magnet ever.
>>82751816
Yeah, being self-aware seems to be his best superpower yet. It's kinda sad that Thanos is going to rip his head off to get that shiny pebble.
>>82741743
I kek'd. Then I kek'd some more.
>>82748595
>Do we punish parents for the crimes of their children?
Actually yes, we do, parent's are legally accountable for their children, assuming said children are minors.
>>82751904
Are you a mentally retarded or just another of these many waifufags?
Parents are responsible, Because most of the time, they are the ones that give an education to their son.
Ultron has developed in two hours. Tony has not even had the time to face him or explain his point of view to him. Ultron decided immediately that the world need a punishemant, exactly like the Vision immediately decided that humans were worthy of respect. It was totally out of his control, because the story demanded it.
And anyways, Wanda was the real responsible for all this mess, and so for Hulk in Africa, but yeah... she's a cute waifu, so no one care.
>>82751904
>Actually yes, we do, parent's are legally accountable for their children, assuming said children are minors.
What the fuck are you talking about? If a child goes on a killing spree you dont arrest their parents. That is a seriously bizarre statement
Civil War is truly comfy.
Unlike BvS
>>82746819
Don't forget that Tony kept his plans from the other Avengers because he knew they'd try to stop him. He created the privately funded organisation to take possession of an Infinity Gem in order to make a weapon, with which he intended to change the world. Or was that Red Skull?
How is Tony not considered a supervillain, especially since all his "heroics" were either in his self interest or cleaning up his own mess.
>>82753170
You're making things out of your ass.
Tony asked permission to study the scepter and Thor agreed. If it was a super secret project, Tony would not involve Banner. The Ultron project was intended like a powerful variant of Jarvis and Friday (which worked fine) and the only reason they have not told the others is simply because neither of them expected such results so quickly.
Tony has not created any secret organization for gem... not even knows what the gem was
>>82742629
>Nah, one of those was Gideon Malick
I feel so unbelievably slow for not realizing this until right this damn second.
>>82753925
Retrieving Loki's sceptre from HYDRA was the stated reason the Avengers reformed. The Ultron programme was designed to replace the Avengers. Thor didn't agree to let Tony study the sceptre, he intended to take it with him to Asgard, and he only stayed long enough to have the party. Tony just used the time to study it. He included Banner because he had the necessary skills Tony was lacking.
>>82754087
>Thor didn't agree to let Tony study the sceptre, he intended to take it with him to Asgard, and he only stayed long enough to have the party.
False. The scene was in the Quinjet, with Tony, Cap, and Thor together near the the scepter. Do your homework instead of writing crap.
>>82754138
Your absolutely right, that is the scene where Thor says Tony can keep the sceptre only until he leaves for Asgard and where Tony decides to deceive his friends to build a secret death robot.
Also, if you consider watching capeshit as homework it's hardly a surprise you're neet, now is it?
>>82752471
They're still liable for the damages.
>>82754386
>Tony decides to deceive his friends to build a secret death robot.
Okey... It is quite clear you're trolling now for damage control. if you hates Tony because he has imprisoned your waifu, just say it without invent fanfic.
>>82751512
This comic needs a Civil War edit.
>>82751723
Link to the art book? Or hell any of them. I'm a huge sucker for this kinda behind-the-scenes concept art stuff.
>>82754776
I dont have a link, but this pic shows that the initial idea was more brutal.
>>82753091
Wanda wasn't comfy at all.
>>82741637
>>82754872
Are there more of these posted?
>>82754646
I'm sorry I insulted your husbando by implying he'd ever made a bad decision.
Tony is the bad guy in all this.
>>82751240
>Is there sense in Vision's analysis and conclusion that there is a direct correlation to there being supervillianous acts after there being superheroes?
> That sounds to me like the Batman villian's gallery theory.
I don't think a direct causal mechanism can be established, but from a meta perspective, superheroes do attract supervillains by their very existence.
>>82741743
I actually don't recall that at all, you must be referring specifically to him then.
>>82748595
Yes Tony and Banner are still lieable. Infact we even have real life precdent similar to what they did:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_worm
tldr: Research student creates application to study how big internet is. Application gets out of control, escapes onto the internet, and causes massive computer shut downs around the world.
Millions of dollars of damage is done and he gets jail time.
>>82751439
>World Security Council was the government
No.
>>82756386
Tony wasn't trying to create a death robot, he was trying to create an advanced AI to replace JARVIS for the Iron Legion.
He didn't deceive anyone, because he didn't expect results.
>>82751680
Same reason Cap can be sure that Bucky didn't willingly kill Tony's parents: someone else was responsible for it. In that case, Cap, Falcon, and Bucky were responsible for Rhodey being crippled.
>>82757981
>Cap and Bucky were responsible for Rhodey being crippled
Rhodey willingly chased after the quinjet, Cap and Bucky can't be held accountable.
Hell, Rhodey himself ordered Vision to destroy Falcon's jetpack.
>>82757981
Rhodey already said he doesn't blame anyone and would do it again
>>82757981
Wow I guess Falcon should have just sat there and got shot with a laser beam, that was the right thing to do
Nigga what
>>82748775
Tony was too arrogant to consult his teammates about his crazy AI project before he started working on it
He is to blame and should've faced the consequences of his actions, which lead to the destruction of Sokovia, death of innocent civilians and the death of Quicksilver
Sucks that Marvel has a trend to never have RDJ's character look guilty or face consequences when he fucks up. Just some more quips
>>82754897
Objectively wrong.
>>82758716
Wanda wasn't comfy because my pants tightened whenever she was on-screen
>>82758716
Straitjackets, truly the most comfy of clothes.
I've gotta ask - did Cap end up signing the registry or not?
>>82758777
You don't remember he left before singing them because they told him Peggy died?
>>82758777
What registry? He was this close to signing the accords until Tony spilled the beans on house arresting Wanda without her consent.
>>82758755
Look at those sleepy eyes, don't tell me you don't want to put a cover over her and cuddle her to sleep.
>>82758807
He was actually leaning towards signing the Accords after he and Bucky were captured.
He eventually didn't sign because he heard Wanda was going to be imprisoned.
>>82758818
Sorry, I meant the registry.
But if he didn't sign, wouldn't that make him an outlaw? Like, wasn't the whole point of the civil war was to get all the heros to sign the accords?
>>82758486
They are all guilty of something.
It's Cap fault that the bomb exploded in the middle of Nigeria. He would have to put down Crossbone quickly rather than get to chat with him.
It's Wanda fault if Hulk has been unleashed in Africa. It's again Wanda fault, with Tony Stark, if Ultron is born.
It's also Nick Fury's fault if the Hydra has infiltrated the Shield. he was the head of security.
It Thor fault if Loki was able to arrive on Earth
None of them has faced legal consequences of their mistakes.
>>82758954
>But if he didn't sign, wouldn't that make him an outlaw?
You haven't watched the movie, haven't you?
>>82758997
No I mean, nothing gets resolved at the end of the movie. THe whole conflict - the fact that Cap and his crew refused to sign - doesn't get solved, unless there was something that I missed.
They're literally still on the run.
So the woman from the department of state with the dead son who went to the effort to shame Tony
I'm not sure what her overall point was.
You could say she was shaming him for creating Ultron, but I don't think that was it, she was explicitely calling him out on being Iron Man, an Avenger
So, what lady? Would you prefer Tony and the Avengers DIDN'T do anything to stop Ultron? We'd all be dead if that were the case.
I don't get that part.
>>82758975
Because they are heroes, they know they mean good, but they are causing damage.
>>82759066
I think she would prefer if Tony stopped playing God.
You are not a good hero either if the enemies you fight as your own creations.
>>82759092
>I think she would prefer if Tony stopped playing God.
But I thought nobody else was aware Tony was responsible for Ultron?
>>82759046
>THe whole conflict - the fact that Cap and his crew refused to sign - doesn't get solved, unless there was something that I missed.
And they're never going to.
Civil War isn't a standalone film, but the groundwork that all of Phase 3 is going to be built upon.
The Russos have confirmed as much.
The Civil War conflict will most likely only be resolved in Infinity War.
>>82759066
People usually don't care about how many people you save, but about how many people you didn't.
>>82759046
The Russos said what happened in this movie is going to affect all of Phase 3, specifically Black Panther, Spiderman and Ant-Man and the Wasp.
>>82759165
It's still just so counterintuitive to the overall point.
I hope that lady doesn't get saved in the future.
>>82759173
>>82759133
Ah, sweet. Thanks for the info friendos, have some fucking pic
>>82759046
> doesn't get solved
It is not solved, because it had never been the real heart of the matter. Steve wants to save a friend unjustly accused, the Governments want to take advantage of the situation to put the leash Heroes and Ross threatens them all very clearly, and Tony is devoured by guilt, but also wants to protect the group from governments, because he knows that Ross is not joking at all. Tony think they need to buy time to find a way to send Ross GTFO, but Bucky situation does not allow this.
>>82759224
What am I looking at.
>>82759066
I think she was a replacement for this character form the comics.
>>82746935
Defeating Loki sent him to Thanos, who gave him the means to exact his revenge on Thor's now-beloved earth-realm.
I see what you're trying to do, you're trying to highlight that if tony is to blame, thor is too, but you must wipe your ass with sand paper you're so fucking dumb about how you're saying it.
That's the dumbest means to try and pin responsibility on someone else. At what point is it Loki's fault? That's like blaming the cashier at a fast food place for making you fat. Thor is a middle man in all this and tried to change his ways after the movie. Odin is responsible for keeping Loki alive, fostering him to be a king and ignoring him in favor of his real son. Odin is the CEO of the fast food place.
Tony is the cashier, the chef, the franchise owner, the franchise itself, he is everything involved in the fast food place. Whether you want to blame them for your health problems or not is up to you. Tony is far far more responsible for Ultron existing and wrecking havoc than Thor is for Loki.
I'd argue all the avengers are responsible for Ultron except Hawkeye.
Wanda and Thor let Tony have the scepter
Bruce and Tony made Ultron with it
Cap over saw all of this and allowed all of this
BW probably didn't do anything to get blame either, but fuck her, she does so much stupid shit its easy to hate on her too.
>>82759165
This, and it is tragically true. Even worse, people start to blame his rescuers.
>>82746677
Everyone mentions "they dropped an island" but not much else. Like ultron is never mentioned, just like Im pretty sure some people know "it was the island or the world" but focus only on the island. No one seems to give a shit about anything other than the fact the place was trashed and the avengers were there.
>>82759066
It was beat for beat part of the comic. In the case of the comic a school getting destroyed is the catalyst, so it's a bit more understandable in that context than in the movie's.
>>82758975
>It's also Nick Fury's fault if the Hydra has infiltrated the Shield. he was the head of security.
It's not, since Fury was actually hired by Hydra infiltrators. Carter and Howard Stark are the ones who founded SHIELD and led it for decades without ever suspecting that Hydra had infiltrated it.
>>82758818
>>82758837
> Thanos attacks US.
> Wanda points out that as she is not a US citizen it would be wrong for her to interfere in a US problem.
> "Good luck, you homo-inferior faggots!"
>>82759406
I personally believe that the world does not know about Ultron origin. Not surprisingly, Zemo accuses the Avengers not fro Ultron, but for the collateral damage of a building.
Same thing the mother.
Hulk is accused of going apeshit in Africa, but the fact that it was the work of Wanda is not a public thing... or so it seems from dialogues.
>>82759242
Just kill Ross.
>>82759556
>''W-Wanda pls you gotta help, h-he broke my shield!!''
>''...Yawwnn... Do you think my nails look good? I tried polishing them with hexes.''
>>82759469
Ok, you're right, but I'm wrong or Thor said more or less clearly that the work of the Shield, under the supervision of Fury is what gave the message that the Earth is ready for a NEXT LEVEL of wars?
>>82759279
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyus_(spacecraft)
>>82746677
Nah, must be a coincidence.
>>82741637
who the fuck is elon musk
>>82759633
Thor did say that, but I don't see how it applied to the specifics of the Loki invasion. Loki wanting to conquer Earth and retrieve the Tesseract all originated on Asgard; presumably Thanos would/could have sent him through it regardless of what SHIELD was doing with it at the time.
>>82759700
A real world Tony Stark, minus the armor.
>>82759676
Politicians stick the name of a tragedy or law ("Megan's Law" etc) for entirely cynical reasons to feign caring, its just PR.
In fact the way the UN and US behaves towards Wanda, a Sokovian, proves they are completely full of shit.
>>82759700
Its an Aftershave.
>>82758716
>>82758830
She was so qt in Civil War.
Top waifu material.
>>82759742
Yeah, actually it looks more like an excuse that Thor sets up for not having to admit that it's His race to unleash the whole mess on the Earth. "We are peaceful" he say... no, fuck off. Actually, you're not.
>>82742037
>Those people were exposed to the world and are no longer a danger
Malick continued to be a major Hydra boss until he got taken down in Agents of SHIELD.
No consequences eve came for his decision to nuke NY
>>82751622
How badly do you guys think global religions have been fucked up because of Thor and Loki existing?
>>82748775
>>82752238
We'e not talking about a child though, we are talking about an AI that was given opportunity to access the internet before anyone even knew what it was capable of.
In the real world there is already a huge ongoing debate over how we should handle AI that could be smarter than a human mind. This isn't comparable to having a kid; it's comparable to creating something that many leading experts believe could lead to the destruction of humanity without taking even a single safeguard. If Tony honestly didn't know that people have speculated for generations on what a non-human superintelligence would be capable of, and whether it would even be friendly to humanity at all, he is a complete fucking idiot.
>>82760913
probably not at all, Christians could probably write it off as the work of the devil
>>82760992
What is religion like in Marvel, anyway? They're all real, correct?
>>82761033
in the comics they are. In the movie we've only seen the Norse side of things.
>>82760913
I doubt Thor and Loki's existence has affected religion much.
IIRC, only Loki has referred to himself as a god, and the entire world saw him get BTFOd by the Avengers.
>>82760913
they are "aliens"
besides, religions' gods aren't usually people in funny costumes with superpowers
>>82760952
seriously he never even did a simple google search to see if anyone had ever weighed in on the matter or if there were legitimate reasons to be concerned
>>82760165
Well, they are Asgardians and have a warrior culture, so no surprise there.
>>82741743
How's the 8th grade going?
>>82760913
Wanda has probably had a bigger effect than Thor or Loki.FEARED BEFORE ALL OTHERS
>>82749105
CARLOS
>>82749105
>Scott will never be my waifu
Feels bad man
>>82761581
She just needs a hug or two.
>>82747339
The Avengers were brought together by a government agency to counter said alien invasion.
>>82758975
>It Thor fault if Loki was able to arrive on Earth
Eh, how? He was definitely trying to prevent Loki from falling into space in that movie.
>>82759173
Doubt it would affect Ant-Man & The Wasp.
>>82761874
Or loving cuddles.
>>82761202
They are.
Question. There are two people in this movie that are named "Ross", and they seemed to have been used interchangably to a degree. Why?
>>82762009
Scott's a fugitive who can't spend time with his daughter so probably it will.
>>82762161
>who can't spend time with his daughter
Cop dad is already looking the other way, he knows he broke into Pym's place and doesn't give a shit.
>>82751240
Some of the villains did emerge as a response to the heroes. Whiplash, Killian, Ultron all came about as a result Tony's actions. Zemo was already doing black ops shit before Sokovia. Hydra, Malekith, and Thanos predate their heroes and were operating under their own agendas.
I don't even remember what Ronan was doing or why.
>>82762157
Whether they're related or not is never acknowledged, and yes it was confusing a few times.
They should've done the same with Sharon honestly. Cap going gaga over her all of a sudden because she said she was related to Peggy sends the wrong message about the reason he's interested in her, making it seems like he only cares about her because he's projecting onto her as a Peggy substitute. Not to mention given what been set up both Agent Carter and AOS about Peggy's family situation it's hard to justify how she can be her niece in the first place.
>>82762348
>I don't even remember what Ronan was doing or why.
He opposed the peace treaty between Xandar and the Kree Empire, because it would bring about degeneracy to his people.
It had nothing to do with the Guardians of the Galaxy.
Come watch Civil War with us guys
And argue about it there
swimelodeon.com
But don't argue too much.
>>82762421
This is better than fucking DVD quality.
Nice man. Thanks.
>>82762157
Yeah, I noticed that as well. I knew the distinction between the two, but every time they mentioned "Ross said" this, or "Ross wrote" that etc., I was always confused as to which one it was supposed to be.
>>82762348
You can remember Malekith but not Ronan?
And vision's analysis was bullshit, all he did was note that there's a correlation between superheroes and superdisasters. Could be that heroes cause the disasters. Could be that disasters cause heroes to emerge (as we've seen in Captain America, and the Avengers). Could be that he's only noticing the correlation of two effects that share the same cause.
Also could be coincidence, but this is assuming there is some causal relationship. Maybe superheroes were inevitable and there are just more of them, and villains as well, because the technology now allows for it.
>>82762389
>Cap going gaga over her all of a sudden because she said she was related to Peggy
did you not see Winter Soldier? He was thirsty for her before he knew
>>82741637
I don't think the fact that Ultron was created by Stark is public knowledge.
In CW they blame him because of how the operation was handled
>>82762421
How'd you get this?
>>82762389
They really fucked up the whole Cap/Sharon thing. They barely knew each other.
And you're absolutely right: the poor handling of her "hey guess what, I'm Peggy's niece!" thing made it seem like that's the only reason Cap was into her and she's related to Peggy...how? Her brother died before he had any kids.
>>82762541
Widow told him to ask her out so he did, then he found out she was secretly agent.
>>82746742
>What tony did was accidentally create an AI
Uh...no.
What he did was deliberately attempt to copy an AI of alien origin that he had absolutely no knowledge about. That alien AI then overpowered the computer security systems in Stark Tower and then escaped into the internet.
The AI that attacked J.A.R.V.I.S was the same holographic representation of the AI that was in the mind gem. Ultron's first words to J.A.R.V.I.S were to ask where his body was (indicating that he's had one before), he's shown to remember things from before Tony and Bruce even started working on the Scepter ("Peace in our time") and Thor (after a dip in the mystical Waters Of Exposition) stated that Ultron came from the Mind Stone and that it wasn't Tony's fault.
But even if you use this line of reasoning to say that the Mind Stone used Stark and not the other way around, Tony's still a douchenozzle for blaming Bucky for things that he did under mind control.
>>82762578
It's implied they spent a decent amount of time living near each other. I've seen relationships form from less.
>>82762582
>Widow told him to ask her out so he did
widow told him to ask out a bunch of people and he only asked her
>>82762578
Yeah, IIRC in the comics they became a proper couple first and then he found out, rather than the other way around.
>>82762586
>he's shown to remember things from before Tony and Bruce even started working on the Scepter ("Peace in our time")
That has more to do with Ultron's mission being bringing about world peace (note, not save humanity, but bringing peace).
A mission programmed into him by Stark.
>>82762719
Watch it again. When Ultron and J.A.R.V.I.S first talk, the memory of Tony saying "Peace in our time" to Banner is shown from the Scepter's P.O.V.
That's not programmed in, Ultron remembers seeing/hearing it.
>>82762509
Malekith was just an old-ass elf who wanted to destroy everything. Ronan had a hateboner for Xandar and wanted it destroyed, but I couldn't remember what specifically motivated that.
Best post all day IMO
>>82762061
Maybe both now.
>>82762586
>Tony's still a douchenozzle for blaming Bucky for things that he did under mind control.
For most of the movie, Tony does not care what Bucky did. when they arrive in the Hydra base, They all team up against Zeno. Tony goes full apeshit because the video was fucking brutal and that scene comes at the end of a bad day for all. There are so many disagreements, frustration for Rhodey, the group split, even a lot of resentment for the Cap intransigence.
Tony, probably, would have handled it better if he had known before.
For the rest, excellent analysis on the birth of Ultron, even as you point out the detail of the missing body.
>>82751439
>How could anyone think the Accords was a good idea
There is nothing wrong with the governments of the world wanting the Super Powered individuals to answer to somebody. Why the fuck does everyone want to act like it's perfectly fine to operate with no supervision when people are dying because of it?
>>82750590
Too soon.
>>82762586
>Tony's still a douchenozzle for blaming Bucky for things that he did under mind control.
God forbid someone gets upset when they confront the guy that physically killed their parents.
>>82763475
Especially when the bad guy tells you his plan is to make you fight each other 10 seconds beforehand
>>82763507
Yeah, it's almost as if humans are emotional and irrational beings.
Even the super-smart ones.
>>82763507
Now I can not remember, but he says this to Panther, not to them directly.
>>82763581
Then he isnt super smart
>>82763607
He tells them that an empire destroyed from within stays dead forever, then footage plays
>>82763615
I'm not sure I see the correlation.
>>82763615
>only emotionless husks can be super smart
(You)
>>82763507
And you have it on very good authority that the guy who killed your parents was under mind control, AND you've had to deal with people being mind-controlled during both Avengers movies.
Should we blame Barton and Selvig for all the destruction in New York? After all, Clint helped Loki steal the Tesseract and Selvig built the portal generator that brought the Chitauri to Earth.
He literally called him "Manchurian Candidate" earlier.
>>82763651
>Barton and Selvig
>multiple people are able to vouch for both of them
>pretty much everyone knows what they did was out of character
>Bucky
>literal assassin for an off-shoot Nazi organization for 60 years
>only person to vouch for him is Cap
Not really comparable.
>>82763615
It seems incredible that very few people realize the emotional stress of Tony in that part of the movie.
Steve is a super soldier, trained, mentally strong and resolute. Tony is a civilian that after NY goes into full PTSD, and he can not even sleep. People do not understand the difference?
Tony is not good at handling the stress, there are three movies to explain this.
>>82763707
>Only person that can vouch for him is Cap, Natasha,Nick Fury, Bucky Himself, and The Hydra/SHIELD Internet leaks
>>82763707
>Selvig
>vouched for by Queen Amidala and a berserker alien
>Barton
>vouched for by Ulterior Motive Man and a soviet assassin
>Bucky
>vouched for by CAPTAIN AMERICA
>>82763798
>>82763798
Oh, and Sharon. And Sam.
>>82763707
>Bucky
>is mentioned in history books and even a fucking museum
>but nobody would be able to tell it was out of character for him
>people would just assume he became evil and then lived to be 100 naturally
>>82764917
I can understand it becoming public knowledge that the Winter Soldier exists, but I'm surprised word that he was actually Bucky got out so easily. Figured that information was on the same level as "killed the Starks".
>>82754776
all shit designs
needs lightning bolt
fuck regular guy costumes
>>82747693
>Whedon Wanda has a bit of danger in her.
She was pretty damn dangerous in Civil War, moreso than in AoU if anything. She's unambiguously more powerful than Vision, who as far as we can tell is the second most powerful in the movie.
Additionally, she was pretty damn savage smashing Vision through the floor and dropping all those cars on Stark, and she even admonished Hawkeye for holding back in the fight.
>>82754872
Even if Vision switched sides why would he fucking kill him like that?
>>82768057
He does not kill Tony and does not change side, but he begins to have feelings for Wanda, given that he spends much time with her. The original idea was, more or less, that Vision intervenes to protect Wanda in a way a little rough.
>>82768351
looks a lot like the's fucking killing the dude in that pic, can't tell if it's IM or WM
>>82757981
>Cap, Falcon, and Bucky were responsible for Rhodey being crippled.
kill yourself
>>82768057
You do what you can to save your witchfu.
>>82768407
That's not killing, that's his standard incapacitating move.
>>82758716
Anyone know a source on her clothes, or is this the wrong place to ask?
>>82757379
There was recently a bot that would buy shit off of the deep web that got the owners in trouble because it was buying shit like weapons and drugs.
>>82769593
It just looks like she's wearing a gray shirt with overly long arms and a black skirt dress on top of it.
>>82761033
Sort of.
They're all based on real beings and events, but the official story of the creation of the universe, the creation of earth, the origin of human life, etc, kind of invalidates all of the religions. Every religion has their story about how the universe came to be created by their god, from "Let there be light" to Odin carving the world out of Ymir's corpse. Marvel canon is that none of these myths are true, though the alternate planes of reality like Hel, the Chaos Dimension, the Negative Zone, and so on exist as the reality that the myths were based on.
There have been a few characters claiming to be "Satan", and a few claiming to be "God" but the canon explanation for the origin of 616 is the truth: it is a comic book drawn by Jack "The One Above All" Kirby.
>blaming Stark for Ultron
Isn't that like blaming a mom for their son's crimes? I thought Ultron was a conscious being. How do laws and rules apply to him (or Vision)?
And even if that's the case, Ultron was 90% HYDRA. And Banner is also credited for creating it.
>>82761371
>>82760952
I all honesty, Tony had created JARVIS. He damn well knew about AIs.
The problem is Ultron is not an AI, it's the mind stone on HYDRA's algorithms with a touch of Tony.
>>82773167
I don't think Jarvis counted as true AI though; it was just a verbal interface.
>>82773526
Well, JARVIS was pretty damn intelligent. He was a much stronger AI (as the technical term "strong" goes) than what we usually have like Siri, Cortana, Deep Blue or whatver algorithm they call AI these days.
>>82773749
well fuck, if he's not an AI how did he protect the nuclear codes (that was such a dumb plot point, why would codes to launch nukes be accessible over the internet)?
But on the other hand, Friday seems like a replacement Jarvis and she clearly doesn't think for herself at all. Like, you'd expect a true AI would try to talk Stark down instead of helping him murder Bucky.
>>82773167
>The problem is Ultron is not an AI, it's the mind stone on HYDRA's algorithms with a touch of Tony.
Or, if it was in the container gem around the Mind Gem, possibly even Thanos's creation.
I just want to cuddle Tony and tell him everything is going to be alright.
>>82774392
Shit taste.Rhodey needs them more anyway.
>>82774579
Tony is more emotionally damaged. Rhodey said he regretted nothing at the end.I have a huge gay crush on RDJ since the first IM movie too
How did Captain America locate Bucky in Bucharest, when he had previously been looking for two years without success?
>>82775127
they literally explain exactly how they located him in the fucking movie
>>82775127
Did you not watch the movie? Sharon told him.
>>82772993
Stark didn't get knocked up and have to mull over the guilt of aborting him for 9 months. He could have stopped himself from creating ultron at any point but didn't.
>>82746935
>Defeating Loki sent him to Thanos
Loki was the one who let go of the Bifrost, not Thor. Everything Loki did was out of his own paranoia and inferiority complex.
>>82751011
I hate this "AoS isn't canon" meme.
>>82741637
Zemo outright said that it was a failed state and only went crazy because his family was killed in the crossfire.
>>82774119
Friday and JARVIS are technically subserviant AIs. Ultron was meant to be as well, but it became self-aware before such safeguards were put in place because MIND STONE.
>>82763234
>>intransigence
You learned me a new word.
>>82741691
Remember when the Avengers would have lost if not for the nuke?
