People actually thought Zemo was a good villain?
He had Zero characterisation minus a last minute exposition dump
>>82613244
Yes.
No.
Fuck you.
>>82613244
Zemo a cute. CUTE
>>82613300
>>82613328
Great arguments
Factually inaccurate. You can say you didn't like him, but the criticisms you have posted are not correct.
No, he definitely had characterization, it was just low key. He was dead inside, so he had no real pride or ego when going about his activities. He was patient and calm, content with scheming in a quiet hotel room with a cup of coffee rather than a villainous lair. You could see that he was once a good man, patient, loyal and dutiful to his family, despite being the commander of an elite Sokovian death squad.
>>82613453
You're projecting, that's exactly what was expected of the audience
>>82613575
What do you mean?
>>82613244
Yes.
He proved to be one of the most effective villains yet.
also who was the woman he was talking to on the phone....Madame Hydra?
I think we haven't seen nothing of him still.
>>82613639
His dead wife
>>82613244
Think he'll get a Masters of Evil movie in Phase 4? He's combat competent as it is but there's room for him to get socked and powered up since he was allowed to live.
Who could he even get?
Abomination is still alive.
Vanko would have been a perfect Crimson Dynamo but he's pretty dead.
Enchantress and Executioner haven't been introduced yet, maybe in Ragnarok
Zola might be backed up somewhere else?
No mention of Wonder Man's company yet in universe yet, is there?
I know Graviton was in AoE
Any other possibilities?
>>82613575
What the hell are you even saying?
>No, he had no characterization, you just projected a personality on the basis of a few shown actions by the character.
Oh, wait. That's what characterization is!
>>82613639
The last voicemail he got from his wife before she was killed with the rest of his family.
>>82613639
>judging a character on what they did and not who they were
literal autistic manchild
>wife died on his father arms
nigga was getting cucked by his own father, thats why he so mad
>>82613244
Why don't you try actually watching the movie that explains his backstory before complaining about lack of motivation and characterization.
>>82614009
>last minute exposition dump
>>82614079
We had the phone running gag before, but even with that exposition dump we don't know too much of him.
>>82613244
this happens for every marvel movie. when it comes out /co/ defends the villain as being THE BEST YET
then a few weeks go by and the realization that the newest villain really wasnt that interesting
>>82614009
what the fuck that movie came out in 2003? jesus christ
>>82613244
don't you mean zemo characterization
>>82614287
underrated
>He thinks characterization is merely summed up in a backstory
stick to anime my plebeian friend
>>82614378
ah, then Zemo had no characterisation at all then
>>82613691
I could actually see them doing Thunderbolts with him towards the end of phase 4. Government want's it's own super team and make a deal with Zemo to run it. Seed villains through out the end of phase 3 and beginning of phase 4 who get recruited and have Thunderbolt Ross over see the team. The final act would be Zemo trying to take down some government target with some of the team going rogue and others joining him. Zemo and those loyal to him escape and become Masters of Evil for a future film.
>>82614409
Ok, let me reprhase, because you're too dumb to understand basic implications.
Characterization is the whole presence of the character, the way he talks, acts and reacts, his thoughts and motives, and the effect he has on other characters.
Basically CW Zemo is characterized greatly.
But I understand, the Russos tend to be nuanced with characterization, it's no wonder it went over your head.
Give him sometime anon, the movie was more focused on the hero vs hero thing. Zemo could've had more presence if the movie was Cap 3 instead of Avengers 2, but i can forgive them because it's his origin story.
>>82614170
Didn't happen with Ultron or Mandarin.
>>82614472
don't even have the villains for Thunderbolts as main villains.
just have them like Batroc in Winter Soldier where they're in the movie but captured and dealt with.
>>82613244
He was pretty damn good as villains go. Didn't need to monologue or grandstand, didn't even want the other super soldiers, and in the end he got everything he really wanted.
With almost no resources, just a grudge, he took advantage of publicly available information (the Hydra leak), to track down one fugitive operative (in Cleveland), and then used the information he gained to flush a covert super out of hiding (by framing the winter soldier), then arranging a situation where he would be alone in a room with a human weapon, and able to take complete control of him, all so he could force a wedge of distrust between Tony Stark and Steve Rogers, the two core members of the Avengers, ruining their alliance.
Brilliantly used the resources available, outsmarted a tech genius, out maneuvered a master tactician. Almost got away with it all too, except Black Panther had to grab the gun and prevent him from An Hero-ing.
>>82613356
He wasn't fucking arguing, he was answering. You huge faggot.
>>82614549
The anon you're arguing with probably needs another swig of grandma's peach tea.
>>82614564
No, ultron was "smugtron" pretty much from the jump, and Mandarin was "WTF!?!" and lego-posted from the start.
>>82614170
Remember when Ronan was a great villain on /co/? Disney must only pay for a couple weeks of shilling
>>82613733
It's not who he is on the inside, but what he does that defines him.
>>82613244
I though he was a good villain, he shouldn't have been Zemo though, they lost the chance to introduce the actual Zemo now.
>>82614958
It's hard to take villains for what they are in context of the story they're in and their relationship with the other characters in it when we know what their full potential is.
Ronan for example, works well within the context of Guardians as this looming herald of death, with his grim reaper imagery, his bathing in the blood and ashes of his enemies and his henchmen looking like locusts. The whole conceptualization of the galaxy in Guardians was supposed to emulate the Western world/Eastern world divide seen in the civilizations of Earth, with Xandar and the Nova Corps being the West and the Kree Empire being the East, with Ronan being an allegory for Islamic extremism.
This is all fine on it's own, but when I know Ronan the Accuser as the Galactic scale Judge Dredd style face of Kree militaristic form and order against the unformed chaos that lurks in the Cosmos, Grim Reaper Ronan feels a little weak in comparison.
>headcanon
>>82613244
This is the true power of being a Marveldrone.
>>82613244
fuck you, aushole.
>>82613733
Sometimes a person's actions is all you need to know who a person is.
>>82614958
Bullshit, people were griping about Ronan from the get-go.
>>82613244
So? All that matters is >>82613328
I didn't mind him. Honestly, they could have made Crossbones the villain of the movie. Still had him do everything Zemo did, and we still would probably have the same result. Also, Zemo wasn't really the villain of the movie. He was a plot device. A product of The Avengers actions. It also really felt like that this was Zemo's origin story. He's not Baron Zemo yet, and the world is going to regret T'Challa not letting him off himself.
>>82613244
Bruhl's delivery was fantastic, though.
And the characterization was there, it was just subtle. For instance, the scene where he has the Hydra/Soviet colonel tied up clearly establishes how singularly driven he is.
"Mission report, December 16, 1991."
"WHO ARE YOU?"
"My name is Zemo. I will repeat my question: Mission report, December 16, 1991."
"What do you want?"
"MISSION. REPORT. DECEMBER. SIXTEEN. NINETEEN-NINETY-ONE."
The second time you see him listening to a message on his phone, the exact same message he listened to the first time, we know that his wife and son are dead and this is what he's obsessed over. If you didn't pick up on that until the conversation with Black Panther at the end, that's your fault.
Also Zemo did permanent damage to the Avengers and survived despite being a normal man with only determination and patience. That has far more impact than "I wanted to find the facility so I could take the super-soldier serum myself and beat you up". Not just because he wasn't trying to empower himself, but because he succeeded where even Loki failed by finding something that would shove an insurmountable wedge between Cap and Tony. The only part of Zemo's plan that didn't go according to plan was Black Panther preventing his suicide, other than that he was completely successful in ruining the avengers without throwing a single punch in the entire film.
>>82618558
Crossbones is a grunt, he isn't smart enough to pull a gambit of this magnitude.
>Zemo lost his family and his father
>PFFFT WHAT A SHITTY VILLAIN, NICE EXPOSITION DUMP, WEAK MOTIVATION
>Bruce Wayne lost his parents
>YAAAAASSSSS PERFECT MOTIVATION!!!! LET'S RIDE THIS GIMMICK FOR 75 FUCKING YEARS!!!!
>>82614843
peach tea actually sounds pretty good right about now
>>82613691
I think Infinity War part 1 will actually be Avengers vs Masters of Evil and end with the Avengers getting back together and no longer wanted. The credits scene will be Enchantress coming to report to Thanos or giving him the last gem or something
