So apparently editorial is taking a lighter hand with rebirth then they did during the new 52 what sort of things did they do during new 52?
>>82603182
they pissed off Robinson, and Perez.
>>82603182
Some weird convoluted shit with Question that guarantees he won't be around for a while.
Grifter #1 had a plane sequence added at the start a week before the deadline, completely fucking up the issue.
>>82603182
Lots of re draws on art, re writes for scripts. They didn't always pay the talent for them either. Caused a lot of friction with people. Plus upper management like didio and John's okaying a project and then the editorial team ripping most of the good ideas to shit when the writer brought the pages in. New 52 was a hard row to hoe for everyone.
>>82603182
Don't believe the lie that anything has changed.
>>82604721
This, as long as DiDio and Johns are calling the shots at DC, nothing will change.
that Damonite/Wildstorm shit
>>82603182
It's a side note by now, but did any writer really think that turning SM/WW into the new "power couple" was a great idea? I felt that was purely editorial, and felt kind of mandated the whole time.
Note: Not a furious Superman shipper, it was just really weird.
They also had some good crossovers at the tail end, but in the beginning, books like Nightwing were completely shot to shit by never-ending crossovers.
>>82604848
I feel it's more likely to have come from above editorial
>>82604848
Not that strange, the idea was simple enough. Even as far back as Silver Age, the idea was played around with.
Hell, I think the idea was easily marketable.
DC's usual SM editorial incompetence really fucked up the books post-Soule.
Nothing a good commitment, better writing, better editorial handling can't fix.
But yeah, here we are.
>>82604848
Because the ppl behind it didn't like WW to begin with. So it always came out as forced and they never showed us them in love as to just having them say I love you every five pages. Diana was both in love and not know a fucking thing about Supes.
Doomed really highlight what most writers felt about it when Diana couldn't even find him and had to ask everyone else and Supes was an insecure douche when she mentioned Batman helped.
And in the later days it was just Diana saying constantly needing reassuring that Supes loved her.
So glad its over.
>>82604848
I honestly think they just put them together to have Argus guy get jealous
>>82605009
Ah. Interesting.
>>82605071
>>82605139
>>82605169
Yeah, that's what it felt like to me. In theory, the idea is not horrible (even though it felt really random to me personally, as if Batman and Hawkgirl were suddenly the power couple of the DCU or something), but it never seemed to be written with any conviction or enthusiasm by anyone.
>>82603182
>fucked up earth 2
>fucked up superman repeatedly
>fucked up tim drake spectacularly
>fucked up question spectacularly
>forced a load of comics to include setups for events that ended up never happening
>fucked up most of wildstorm
>>82605338
Hardly random, really. History wise, the two had been close.
As far Supes being insecure, he was infected by that Doom virus/spore thing. Another personality, SuperDoom is fighting the real CK in his head.
In the end, we got incompetent editors like Berganza messing it up with his half-ass attempts at doing his job by looking at his stewardship of the Superline. That and the usual endless crossovers that fucked shit up.
It really could have been handled better. Could have produced more and better stories without crossover getting in the way. Could have produced stories where the was a balance between the two characters in terms of plot. And so on.
>>82603182
Micromanagement of all plots that allowed for limited creative freedom, that alienated artists and sent them to other publishers.
The irony is that if you listen to Johns he is kind of doing the same thing. He might just be doing so in a more productive manner, but he has said he is meeting with all creative teams and going over what they want to do, and guiding them to make story choices, and present characters in a manner that feels in line with Rebirth overall. It kind of leaves me thinking that editorial is doing less than they did during New 52, because Johns is doing it instead.
It depends on how you're framing it.
I wouldn't say that editorial had a "heavy" hand during the New52 -- I think it was more like they had WAY more influence than they were supposed to, whether they used their influence correctly or not.
Static Shock is a book I'll always be mad about. The writer was Milestone alum and had these great/decent ideas of how to make the book great. But the editor wanted nothing but attention-grabbing, non-sensical shit on every page. The result was that, from the get-go, the series was written by the artist and the editor, and the original writer was out entirely. The book ended up being cancelled (with some retarded plots, too) fairly quickly.
Batwoman is another big example. As people said, editorial wanted re-writes and re-draws of their scripts, and given how intricate Batwoman's art is, you could tell that it would piss them the fuck off. The main writers would end up leaving the series and never working for DC again.
Superman is probably the third most eye-opening example. In this case, the editor on Perez's Superman had too much influence but didn't use that influence to let Perez write freely: instead, they had to wait on things from Morrison as he was writing Action Comics. Furthermore, nothing was set in stone as a result of the New52; thus, editors were scared to death of actually establishing anything, which made it even more difficult for writers like Perez to get clearance for their ideas.
>>82606691
>and never working for DC again
Not true. JHW did the Sandman Overture mini for them.
>>82606772
I think a lot of people who never want to work with dc would do it if it meant working with gaiman on sandman
Here's what Paul Jenkins had to deal with
>I would like to relay an editorial comment that I received near the end of my time writing the Dark Knight New 52 series. In one scene, I had written that Batman is sitting on a rooftop during an intense conversation, close to a person who has been injured. The editorial comment: “We’re not sure you are “getting” the character because it’s common knowledge that Batman never sits down.” This, mind you, after I had made it clear I was not going to rewrite material for the umpteenth time after it had already been approved.
>>82607123
This seems really petty, but if it's known Batman doesn't sit, why are you trying to make him sit? Just so you can say, "hah, I'm the guy who made Batman sit! I evolved his character" or some shit?
>>82607882
>but if it's known Batman doesn't sit
But it's not. That's complete bullshit.
>>82604721
>>82604749
reboots are always shit and never fix anything because you always have the same dipshits in charge of the comics as you did before the reboot.
the only time it would ever actually make sense to do a crisis/reboot is at some imaginary point where all the comics are really well written and selling really well since that would mean the people making the comics might be competent enough to make a reboot good
Editorial micromanaged and/or tried to do things that the creative team didn't want.
>Robinson was planning a meeting of Earth 2 and the main earth with Didio and Johns, which is what Darkseid War was probably going to be more about. But an editor wanted an Earth 2 Batman book, while Robinson wanted Batman to be a b-tier hero on that earth. He was just going through a bad time, said fuck it, and took his notes and left.
>Higgins wanted to write a crossover between Nightwing and Deathstroke along with a few other things, but editorial told him no, despite him writing both of those books.
>He and the rest of the Batbooks writers just got bombarded with crossovers that nobody wanted. Snyder especially didn't want that Zero Year gimmick month.
>Batbooks seem to have been forced to keep a darker tone. Simone especially complained about this in the form of "creative differences".Notice how that went away when Marts walked off and Doyle took over and things got more diverse in tone/genre.
>Batwoman, Perez and Superman, Static Shock in general.
No one knew what was going on and what was canon and wasn't, so everything ended up as a clusterfuck.
>Lobdell wrote Teen Titans and RHATO, but in one book, it said previous Titans didn't exist or didn't call themselves Titans, but in the other book it said that the previous Titans DID exist. So there you have higher ups not being on the same page and them having to edit the trade later.
>>82604848
>>82605009
Superman/Wonder Woman was entirely editorial and mandated. Them breaking up was supposed to be catastrophic or something and/or they had plans for their relationship and breaking up. There was that page with Booster Gold watching them kiss on the screen. But I'm guessing since nobody liked it and Johns and higher ups biting off more than they can chew with plotlines, they just dropped it and let the book go on for a bit. There were a lot of early New 52 plotlines that got dropped. Pandora, Daemonites, etc.
>Paul Pope: “Batman did pretty well, so I sat down with the head of DC Comics. I really wanted to do ‘Kamandi [The Last Boy on Earth]’, this Jack Kirby character. I had this great pitch… and he said ‘You think this is gonna be for kids? Stop, stop. We don’t publish comics for kids. We publish comics for 45-year olds. If you want to do comics for kids, you can do ‘Scooby-Doo.’ And I thought, ‘I guess we just broke up.'”
>>82609466
>DC broke Paul Pope's heart
Unforgivable.Also pretty funny quote in retrospect, given DC's publishing a Scooby Doo comic targeting both adults and kids.
>>82607882
Batman sits. Constantly.
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/06/07/when-batman-sits-down/
>>82603182
>what sort of things did they do during new 52?
Pissed off and drove away pretty much all their talent (and Liefeld) and turned DC Editorial into the laughing stock of the industry for years?
>>82609925
>all their talent
The only person worth a shit that they lost was JHW3, everyone else was way past their prime and not worth a paycheck anyway.
>>82609462
Also something clearly happened with Legion Lost, because FabNic was playing long game from the start with that book (I don't think he can do otherwise) and then Tom DeFalco took over.
>>82604749
But Harras is the problem.
The only solid run from the start of nu52, with no crossover bullshit.
