>people think Team Iron Man had a valid stance
>ignore how every Marvel comic after Civil War framed the Registration Act as a bad thing
>the only heroes that got anything done afterwards were the ones on the lam while the Pro-Registration heroes just jobbed all the time
>Secret Invasion showed that having them answer to the government didn't help things at all
>no one on The Initiative actually became potent superheroes
>everyone ignores that Civil War ever happened after Siege and the issue of registration was never brought up again
This isn't even about the characters, if they had switched sides, Team Cap would be the morons.
I mean, there's no way the Accord-approved Avengers can even be half as effective as what came before.
Could some of that be because they realised they fucked up real bad when they decided to have one side be "maybe they have a kind of point sorta", the other side was building concentration camps in other dimensions and creating soulless clones of their friends, and all throughout it felt like some writers were working from entirely different playbooks than others?
I mean I'd want to shove that under the rug and whistle as I walked away too.
It's almost as if most of the writers were progressive liberals creating the original Civil War storyline during the Bush years. Switch the government to the Obama administration, or make it about registering guns instead of superpowers, and they would have had things play out completely differently.
Just because the writers came up with negative results for the Superhero Registration Act doesn't mean Iron Man didn't have a point, or even that it would be a bad law in a similar, real life situation. The writers disagreed with the SRA, and so of course they would write a negative fallout from it. If you get to make your case by inventing your own fictional proof, it doesn't mean you're correct. If a writer during the Lincoln administration was against freeing the slaves and wrote a story about how the Emancipation Proclamation led to black people rising up and murdering everyone in the country and destroying the planet, it wouldn't mean that abolition was a bad thing. It just means that writers sometimes let their own biases show in their work.
And the best part it, I'm not even Team Iron Man; I just think your argument sucks big time. But 9/10 for getting me to respond anyway.
>>82601550
The second Captain America movie already showed why it's a bad idea. Governments and Beaurocrats are so easily infiltrated, there's not one single reason to believe it couldn't happen again, and the accords would only make things worse.
The problem is there is no way the world can continue to tolerate a self-sanctioned private world police who constantly take matters into their own hands, constantly unlawfully infiltrate borders and constantly do their own thing without consulting anyone. Even if the shit in Sokovia and with the Wakandans didn't happen, eventually the world will start to get sick of their shit.
I'm not saying the Avengers didn't do good, because they did, but they're also pretty much shitting on the world's governments and acting like they're a higher authority. Someone is eventually going to pay the price, if not them then the American government.
It was always only a matter of time before the world started demanding enforced accountability. You don't run a private organization consisting of the most powerful individuals in the world getting involved in the affairs of other nations and expect to continue to go unhindered. Something like this was always gonna happen, and had Cap's answer been the same, him becoming a criminal would have been inevitable.
>>82601550
God, I though that I couldn't hate Mark Millar and the people like Bendis who approved of this more than I did. Civil War proved me so wrong with how it characterized Cap and Iron Man. Christ after reading Iron Man's silver age stuff and looking at it now, I want to slaughter Bendis and Millar.
>>82601832
>Governments and Beaurocrats are so easily infiltrated
>>82601827
the problem is in the story world, most of the supers didn't get to choose to have their powers. for your example it would be like people suddenly had one of their hands replaced with a gun without their consent. it means people that want to be left alone are dragged into a shit show and they can't just NOT buy a gun to avoid it.
>>82601835
>world police who constantly take matters into their own hands, constantly unlawfully infiltrate borders and constantly do their own thing without consulting anyone
actually, what I found most unbelievable is that the US govt would take a dozen or so superpeople, most of whom are US citizens, and say "You answer to the UN now, k?"
A general registration really makes sense and there are places in real life that have mandatory military stuff like Finland. It really is a logical end result of a society where people can randomly get such dangerous powers and need a means to train to control them.
But of course status quo is god so they needed to pretend like it was bad and demonize the registration side, instead of just not writing what amounts to a dumb story.
>>82601835
>It was always only a matter of time before the world started demanding enforced accountability.
Accountability isn't even the issue because they're basically an US-based international terrorist organization by RL international law.
>>82602728
Except they don't really answer to the US government, otherwise Ross wouldn't have called them vigilantes. Ever since SHIELD fell, the Avengers basically became a private organization funded solely by Stark.
>>82601827
Also, fiction is about escapism and there are few things as anti-escapism as having to kowtow to the government.
>>82601550
It failed because Marvel writers didn't like the idea. That's why.
Fuck them and fuck you, too.
>>82601899
>I want to slaughter Bendis and Millar
The rest was unnecessary.
The concept (of CW) was good, the execution was bad.
>>82602728
they're a non-profit counter-terrorist PMC
>>82602316
yiss
>>82602369
They really didn't, though. The UN mandated oversight with accountability, but they weren't supervised by the UN. The UN itself is too busy already to start directly overseeing the actions of the Avengers. They told the US to put someone accountable in charge of the Avengers and the US government picked General Ross.
>>82603185
They're not registering the desire to do good, but super powers. How is this different from gun registration.
"Hello. My name is Joseph Schmoe junior. I am a construction worker from Tea Neck. I am married and have two kids. I collect toy trains and drive a Camaro. I also have the ability to turn my body into liquid metal and melt anything by touch, and add it to my mass so I gradually grow into a giant made of 1500 F molten material. Trump in 16!"
I wonder if we're ever gonna see an alternate timeline where SHRA and the Avengers Initiative were never rescinded - because Vision never provided cap with the tech to disable Iron Man, or something.
my favorite bit of retardation from this is that they made the mutants EXEMPT.
And the mutants BELIEVED that this shit wouldn't be applied to them in the future. Any sane mutant would have shut it down at the very start.
>>82603288
The mutants could have argued it would be racist, even though that component of it has always struck me as insanely stupid.
And IIRC, SHRA only required of you to register if you intended to USE your power.
>>82603297
>The mutants could have argued it would be racist
It's not like Xavier doesn't have a giant mutant registration machine in his house or anything...
>>82603234
But in this case Joseph Schmoe would have been forcibly conscripted by the government and sent to fight super terrorists against his will, just because he has powers that aren't normal for human beings.
Hell they even did this to someone who's only 'ability' was being really fit, the kid was a subpar captain america who achieved the state through a carefully regimented life of exercise and proper nutrition.
Then he died in the camp during one of their retarded combat tests.
>>82603297
Cloud 9 only wanted to fly around on her silly little cloud, they sent Warmachine after her to ship her to super soldier boot camp and on her first day shoved a plasma rifle into her hands and told her to dogfight with jets instead of just sending the actual armed forces or even proper superheroes.
>>82603337
>>82603356
Don't blame ME for the retarded writers who hated the concept.
>>82603201
General Ross being in charge pretty much shoots the accords in the foot, dude is literally a criminal who escaped punishment for his actions by pushing the blame on others and governmental corruption.
>>82603297
I would count both of those as still fucking retarded, and if they were going to do that, they should have at least played it out, with mutants who can't turn their powers off.
They literally parked sentinels right outside the school, and the x men stilll "stayed out of it".
>>82603403
Sentinels are dumb, useless and only increase the stereotype of giant robots being 'evil' in the marvel universe.
I am personally sick of the discrimination displayed by the writers of Marvel comics against giant heroic robots, they only exist to job hard or get turned evil.
Why does Marvel not dig Giant Robots?!
>>82603108
non-profits still have to answer to the government, you think MSF can operate wherever they please?
>>82601827
Ah, you do realize that anti-registration is a Conservative ideal no matter who is in office?
>>82603337
Don't forget, cloned into triplets to become iron spiders and never existed every again.
>>82601832
Exactly. You can either trust supers to handle their own shit, which they have been doing well at for decades, or demand that elected officials with their own agendas and no experience with what supervillains are capable of and have done in the past, be the ones making decisions.
>>82603509
They are under the authority of the wakandan and asgardian governments :^)
>>82603337
Those aren't problems with the concept of super registration, though. They're problems unnecessarily added to it by the pro-reg side being portrayed as gratuitously evil.
Don't forget, every pro hero has something really bad happen to them, like Tigra being beaten, Cassie dying, Wasp exploding, etc
>>82603456
We have Machine Man
>>82601550
At least Civil War continues its tradition of being a stupid, shallow, meaningless event that only occurs so action figures can punch each other.
>>82601827
but being anti registration and telling the gov to eat a dick is literally conservatism. soccer mom and sjw liberals aka "social" marxist (in the sense they use it, not the way it's intended before some commie starts shit) faggots and "social" conservatives aka right wing authoritarian faggots would believe the Gov should control them.
Liberals and conservatives on the more libertarian side of things would realize how badly inept the UN (especially with MCU Goverments) is.
>we have to discuss CW again because of this huge influx of newfags and milennials that are just discovering it
Thanks MCU!
>>82605283
>I want a great Civil War movie
>>82603456
#NotAllSentinels
so we all know that the SHRA is a poorly defined mess that's way to ripe for abuse but I have to ask you /co/ how would you guys go about making a superhero Registration?
what laws and rules would you guys put in it?
the PROBLEM is that the worlds main greviances, the "collateral damage" simply wouldn't be undone by having U.N control of the Avengers.
when ALIENS INVADE THROUGH PORTALS shit is going to get blown up, how would Oversight matter there?
the only thing Oversight does for the world is make the governments feel in control and make the Avengers have to fucking ask, every fucking time "Can I save the world now?"
and if the world ever delays, or says no, and the hero's save the world anyways, because thats what they do, they are then criminals and thrown into their Bond Villian prison.
and then what happens next time the world gets threatened? do they let the hero's out? do they let the world die because "MUH LAW?"
what? what EXACTLY are the expecting out of this situation they forced the hero's into, they either comply and forever be answering to the U.N, the slowest group of people in the universe, or be on the run criminals.
mind you, this is in a universe where evil alien clone armies LITERALLY invaded less than a decade ago and could come back at any time, along with any other sort of threats (and hint, they do, hince Infinite Wars)
if we're looking at this realistically, iron man's right. People going around in secret beating people up is so unmanagable that of course the government has to keep track somehow. Especially after a school is blown up.
However the writers knew iron man was obviously right, so they made him unlikeable and made his actions have negative consequences to make it "balanced," and for their to be a possible argument from caps side.
>>82606511
except the problem lies in, eventually, someone in charge of the U.N will say "Fight this war/battle for us now or your criminals"
I agree, no oversight is bad, however, a group akin to SHIELD should be put in place, not the U.N, not actual fucking nations being in control of the most powerful force on earth.
>>82606554
>except the problem lies in, eventually, someone in charge of the U.N will say "Fight this war/battle for us now or your criminals"
no offense but isnt that kinda a slippery slope
>>82603288
Some mutants helped Captain America, like Cable.
The thing is, for most mutants it was, "let them kill each other, and to us will go the spoils of their war"
>>82605817
Anon... do you remember what happened to them?
>>82606678
in a world with Hydra? no.
it isn't, at all, there are literal supervillian secret groups.
also the U.N was completely trolled by a single man who's family died in this very movie.
>>82604608
>Those aren't problems with the concept of super registration, though
yes they are? Do you really think that the government would let a human that has the ability to create unlimited electric energy just let him live his life?
>>82606860
thats like what i was saying, in the MU it might be different, however the differences in the MU and the real world are so vast that any relatable argument was lost.
>>82606342
I don't. Humans are Humans if someone can play basketball really well he does not need to be registered.
>>82606678
>kinda a slippery slope
where is the slippery slope in
Fight these guys
and fight these guys?
>>82607082
because it associates the government knowing heros identities with forcing them to go off and fight in wars for no given reason
>>82607150
but they would, they already draft normal folks when times are hard.
they would totally draft supers the same way, and now they LITERALLY HAVE A LAW that says they DO what THEY say in place.
>>82607300
The superhuman registration act does not state that supers have to work for the government in any way. It just asks to give up their identity. If they really wanted to draft supers they would've done so by now.
>>82607391
>The superhuman registration act does not state that supers have to work for the government in any way.
Yes it did, hence why Steve agreeing to register but refusing to lead the team to hunt supers was grounds to lock him up (fucking Maria Hill)
Hence why Osborn could order Carol to join his Avengers and if she resigns she would face court martial.
>>82607391
it actually did just become a draft.
hence why Cap started the fucking civil war.
>>82607546
>>82607607
u right
>>82607391
maybe you should read civil war again.
>>82604866
Compared to Batman vs Superman, it's literature of the highest caliber.
>>82607640
>wanting to read that book
>not just memorizing the wiki
every day i praise the lord that im not a continuity fag
Why don't good samaritan laws cover this shit?
>>82607818
because cap rightly pointed out that it was possibly Agenda driven.
the likelyhood that the nations give a shit about Fee-Fee's is insane, in reality they just wanted the Avengers on the payroll.
"acountability" is a joke when the group only responds to events that literally no one else could deal with.
what the fuck you gonna do, delegate over whether the avengers should stop the world from ending?
>>82601550
registration was always a stupid idea that was going to be shown to be a stupid idea because the marvel universe US Government is taken over by supervillains twice a year.
>>82604608
That's because the Pro-Reg side IS gratuitously evil and incompetent you mongoloid
