So I've seen many people claim that Steve Rogers is a libertarian, these claims come both from libertarians themselves and from butthurt liberals on Salon and other sites. Mostly based on his movie incarnation.
Is there any truth to it?
I'm pretty sure he's actually quite a big fan of government stepping in to help with poverty and sickness and shit.
Libertarians just say that because he's CAPTAIN AMERICA and that means sharing his political beliefs make you more AMERICAN.
>>82583546
He's a New Deal Democrat, so no.
>>82583546
What is a libertarian? I only ever hear the word in regards to america or americans.
>>82583546
No, Cap is an FDR democrat if anything. I mean he's a young kid in Brooklyn during the 1940s
Nope. New Deal Democrat.
>>82583688
A rich anarchist.
>>82583688
Someone who wants as little government as possible.
In Civil War they wrote him more like that, but no.
>>82583688
Basically, a guy that believes that the government shouldn't do anything but the barest of minimums and let the free market deal with everything. No army, almost no police, no social services, no interference in anyone's lives.
>>82583649
By today's denocrat standards
Everything past 80s is right wing
>>82583778
Well that's just ridiculously unfeasible.
>>82583817
I know, there's a reason libertarian states have never existed. Unless you count Somalia, but libertarians would rather not bring that up in discussions.
>>82583688
>taxtation is theft
>government should make no laws about markets
>companies should be let do whatever they want
>poor people deserve to die because they don't add anything, also not my problem I am only here to make more money
>free market is everything
>outsourcing jobs to third world countries is fair because companies are supreme
>having immigrants steal jobs is fine too
>open borders are fine
>state should be very little because reasons
>police and military are bad because they are the armed thugs of the "oppressive state"
no one really follows them for a reason, these are the same people that think companies will fight echother constantly and draw prices down instead of forming a cartel like it always happens if anti-trust laws aren't enacted
>>82583817
It's a very contentious political ideal that a lot of people jump on.
>>82583688
Anything you want, since you play edgy and never do anything of real impact on the real world
It's more just jarring characterization since he's basically taking the opposite position that he held in First Avenger and Winter Soldier, going from humble soldier understanding when the powers that be need to be reigned in, to Civil War where he's adamant that his Avengers should be beholden to no one.
>>82583817
Which is why most people grow out of libertarianism after high school
>>82583953
No, he's had to literally deal with the people in charge of them to throw in the towel and nuke a major city or be infiltrated by nazis and try to commit genocide with giant war machines, even the accords were being administered by Ross who is a flatout criminal that only avoided punishment by shifting blame and backroom politics.
He has a reason to be leery of such things, and even then he was willing to play ball to Tony with signing the thing until he learned of shit like what they were doing to Wanda just because she's not American.
THAT SHIT AIN'T FREEDOM ANON!
>>82583903
>having immigrants steal jobs is fine too
>open borders are fine
>police and military are bad because they are the armed thugs of the "oppressive state"
See, I think I'm a libertarian, but I'm not on board with these three things. I'm probably gonna end up voting for Trump in November.
He's a New Deal democrat. Big FDR guy
>>82583953
I'm not sure you watched the same movie as me, he seemed pretty unhappy with the powers that be creating flying death machines in TWS
>>82584039
>libertarian who will be voting for Trump and is against free movement of labor
Are you trying to be a parody?
>>82584035
Yeah, hell nobody in the Raft got a trail.
>>82583903
That sounds like a nonsensical mix of right and left wing ideas (at least the ones in my country).
>>82583688
somebody who believes that governments are bad but everything is okay as long as a corporation does it
>>82583546
he joined the army and fought in WW2
if he was a libertarian he would have stayed home selling bullets to both sides to make more money
>>82584099
Anon, please. I can't deal with this post.
>>82583751
>>82583817
>>82583870
>>82583903
>>82583940
>>82584002
not an argument
>>82583903
>>government should make no laws about markets
>>companies should be let do whatever they want
But, then they are just trading a single government for overpowering multiple corporations, which are far more soulless with no reason to care for the population in their pursuit of pure profit.
And why do they think only state officials can oppress with their 'armed thugs'? A powerful enough company is basically just a nation unto itself.
How could anyone sit down and think this is a good idea?
>>82583688
Someone who wants to be able to be a cunt with no consequences.
>>82584176
Correct, I wasn't trying to make one.
>>82584099
It's not a coincidence that the USA is the only important country with an actual libertarian movement
>>82584185
It gets very convoluted man. Do you think governments exercise power responsibly? What about the influence of corporations on governments, which can allow those corporations to avoid blame or financial failure?
It's not a philosophy I agree with but an educated libertarian will not usually have the exact viewpoint "fuck the people" that is being portrayed ITT.
>>82583688
Political philosophy which places the preservation of individual liberty as the primary objective of governance, as opposed to, say, justice or communal equality.
The previous strawmanning replies assume the end result of any political philosophy is domination instead of the reality that with 7 billion fucking people on the planet, disparate philosophies of anything will only ever act as balances against all the others.
>>82584176
Stephan pls, An-Cap is even worse
>>82584185
because in a "free market" competing companies will keep eachother down or something and the market will remove the ones that damage the buyers
>>82584185
Because they don't think of anyone but the government as capable of oppression.
>>82584259
Please point to a successful libertarian state.
Also crying about strawmen is not an argument.
>>82583546
He's not. Marvel writers are, and they make him do dumbass libtard shit though.
>>82584302
I suspect it's more that government are capable of oppression on a singularly massive scale.
>>82584274
>because in a "free market" competing companies will keep eachother down or something and the market will remove the ones that damage the buyers
lol
>>82583546
WHY DO NORMIE SHITS WHO DON'T READ COMICS KEEP POSTING THIS PIC
It's nothing more than a Mark twain quote
>>82583768
This.
>>82584185
The ones who think about it that simply are either uneducated and like it in principle, or just want to get away with shit and fuck anyone else
>>82584274
>ompeting companies will keep eachother down or something and the market will remove the ones that damage the buyers
yeah that one is bollocks
>all these soundbites ITT
Not a libertarian, but this is just a lot of shit. Liberty above all isn't necessarily an invalid political ideal, and a political ideal doesn't necessarily have to be realistic to inform criticism of policy.
The US used to have completely free immigration - when it didn't have a welfare state. Libertarian perspectives can be useful as a tool for analysis. Governments do oppress and intervene on the freedom of people (even people who are not their citizens) worldwide, and governments and corporations in bed with each other do allow awful corporations to thrive and survive.
>>82584344
What about this?
>>82583768
>yfw they recast Cap for Cap 4 but he's an asshole and halfway through the movie Evans shows up and gives this speech
>>82584382
> Liberty above all isn't necessarily an invalid political ideal
X above all is always a shitty way of thinking, shit is more complex than that
>>82584400
>Evans turns up at a Trump rally and gives this speech
>>82584382
Yeah, we are the losers for sticking to systems that have worked since today.
We shoul drop them and go full libertarian because it's the less popular system between the "accepted" ones.
>>82584382
But how does removing power from the government in all areas and letting the corrupt corporations cut loose and run wild help anyone?
Modern large-scale civilization needs a framework to keep running as well. Yanking it away and expecting it to keep standing is pretty illogical.
>>82583768
i forgot how good this speech is
>>82584417
That's true in reality, but as a driving mission statement freedom above all for everyone is easily the ideology I'm most sympathetic to. I didn't come to that from libertarianism but from Soviet writers in Stalinist Russia.
>>82583903
>police and military are bad because they are the armed thugs of the "oppressive state"
Most libtards I've met believe the military is the most important thing the government should do.
>>82584185
>How could anyone sit down and think this is a good idea?
Because the people who come up with these ideas expect to be at the top or are already at the top
>>82584382
>implying corporations can't oppress people even without the governement
>>82583688
Everywhere else it's called a liberal, in america liberal means progressive though so they needed to make up a new word for it.
Yeah it's confusing.
>>82584440
That's not what I'm trying to argue at all. Do our systems work today? For everyone? Have governmental systems always worked historically?
>>82584451
Libertarian perspectives typically involve removing a lot of protections for corporations along with reducing government influence (and plenty of libertarians would argue those two things go hand in hand). As I said though, it's not a political movement that I personally believe in.
>>82584469
Nozick argues that the responsibility of a government should be to ensure the safety of its people, yeah.
>>82584469
no need when you can hire private security and PMC
>>82583719
But he is a second generation Irish American
>>82584259
The fact that you have to call your own ideas "strawmanning" because they sound psychotic is pretty telling tbqh
>>82584455
Yeah, I wish it was as well known as the 'No u move' one.
>>82584320
Your reading comprehension is shit. The point of my post is that "a Libertarian state" isn't necessarily the end goal of advocating for libertarian policy positions. Only autists deal in absolutes.
>>82584176
Most of those are descriptions, not arguments.
>>82583768
edited
>>82584572
The point is that you had no point.
Libertarianism as a whole is such a fringe philosophy that no wonder isn't taken seriously, applying some of its apscet is possible but it doesn't validate libertarianism. Just like having some social net doesn't validate full blown socialism.
>>82583805
nah. Cap would probably be for anything that gives people equality/equity so yknow pro gay marriage and that shit. though he'd probably be the kind of guy that says "all lives matter"
>>82584554
It's more that libertarians are basically American Republicans but with the church replaced with the Free Market, and Americans love the military industrial complex because it's a huge handout to companies.
They also hate the idea of paying even a dollar more in taxes, even if it saves them $100 later because it's their god-given right to let companies shit on them.
>>82583870
>>82583870
I know /co/ aint the place for this, but have Libertarians/communists/anarchists ever considered that there is a practical reason why no "true" versions of these states existed?
>>82584747
No. No one who has ever ascribed to or even just thought about these ideologies has ever considered that. You are the first.
>>82584747
That just makes it easier to argue it would cause you got no proof it hasn't. Apart from communists, who then say well that wasn't true communism
>>82584689
>though he'd probably be the kind of guy that says "all lives matter"
cap's not a fucking dumb asshole.
>>82584320
Switzerland
Hong Kong.
libertarianism =//= anarcho capitalism
>>82584747
Yeah, cause all those dummies did it wrong!
>>82584873
what's dumb or assholish about caring about all lives?
>>82584724
Sounds like what we call around here a "Neoliberal", basically they say the Free Market is always right.
>>82584747
Commies in my country usually blame the gringo boogieman for the fall of the Soviet Union and East Germany, and when there is a case of human rights violation in an alleged communist state, they ignoring it saying that "'there are not really communists" even if they previously praised them
ITT: People confuse anarcho-capitalism with libertarianism
Jesus christ you retards. Libertarians still want government. It's only idiotic anarcho capitalists who think things could work with no government at all.
>>82584747
This >>82584781
Most Libertarians are dumb as rocks. The rest insist that there's no libertarian paradise because big bad government is afraid that when people see how good liberty and no taxes are they'll bootstrap themselves away to Galt's Gulch.
I think there have been a few Libtard attempts at communes- one was on a raft or something (sank), one was some kind of landgrab out west (which I think ended up with undrinkable water or some shit) and Somalia (became Somalia.)
>>82583870
>Unless you count Somalia, but libertarians would rather not bring that up in discussions.
It's almost like because it's not actually a libertarian state.
>>82584965
It's the same fucking thing you dumbshit 14-year old.
One of them is just a scarier sounding name for you to pin all the things that sound bad about your ideology on.
I really wish people knew the difference between libertarian and anarchic- cap
I believe the government should exist just in very limited ways according to the constitution
>>82584968
Jesus christ are you retarded
Being a libertarian does not mean you have to carry out the belief to a radical extreme. Those are anarchists/anarcho-capitalists.
>>82584996
This. If it was a Libertarian state it would work. :^)
If it's bad then they clearly didn't do it right
>>82585020
>It's the same fucking thing you dumbshit 14-year old.
It's not you thick skulled cunt. Read before you talk out of your ass.
>>82584968
That was sarcasm my friend.
>>82584933
I'm not falling for that bait
>>82585045
No, because Hong Kong and Switzerland are countries that I would point to as libertarian in nature. They're very successful countries.
>>82585023
I really wish all Libertarians were sent to Somalia to die
>>82583546
>The requirement that we stand up for what we believe, no matter the odds or consequences
Nah I'm pretty sure it was founded on the principle of not wanting to be taxed out the ass with zero representation by an overseas power.
>>82585063
I'm not even him, and I keep asking the same question; what is wrong with caring about all lives?
>>82585024
If you don't want to carry it out to the point where you have a libertarian society (or even a mostly 70-80%), then you aren't one you just have a few libertarian beliefs.
>cap
>libertarian
Remember that time he called Cables socialist island utopia the perfect realization of the American dream and painted a mural on it.
Holy fucking hell this is why /co/ should never talk about politics.
>>82585081
Switzerland is socialist as fuck. They just used to make all their money due to having a lawless banking system that was an economic drain on every other nation in the world.
>>82585063
Not that guy, but how's that bait?
All lives do matter and should be treated equally.
>>82585132
This is a joke right?
>>82585146
>Switzerland is socialist as fuck
The point is that Switzerland has a very laissez faire economy and strong civil liberties/freedoms, which is what libertarians strive for. Not privately owned roads or whatever retarded bullshit ancaps come out with.
>>82584902
>Switerzland
>libertarian
Yeah, I don't think so buddy.
>>82585144
Because even people on a cartoon board can see through the sheer retardation that is Libertarianism?
I think we should talk about politics more, honestly. Seeing you bitcoin niggers crying and desperately trying to spin your sociopathic ideology as having any redeeming qualities is extremely lol
>>82585131
You're clearly not the brightest spark so let me explain to you.
Anarcho-Capitalism is libertarianism taken to a logical extreme: From limited government to no government at all. You can still be a libertarian and believe in having a government with a small military et cetera. Being a libertarian does not mean you believe in not having a state at all.
>>82585023
this coming from the same people that usually equates socialism/democratic socialism and communims
>>82585185
Nope. When Cable made his Utopia, Cap snuck in as a civilian to check out if it was a threat and afterwards he told Cable that it was as America should be
>>82585081
didnt switzerland open up its banks to foreign tax dodgers in order to get money until the rest of the world stopped them?
And isn't hong kong full of slave labor manufacturing and poverty like Kowloon?
>>82585231
>Because even people on a cartoon board can see through the sheer retardation that is Libertarianism?
You mean the retarded, incorrect interpretation you buttmad faggots have taken?
>>82585020
its called minarchism you dumbass
>>82585267
How was Cable's compared to Cyclops'?
>>82585081
>Hong Kong
>Switzerland
>"Libertarian"
You don't know what "Libertarian" means.
I'm betting these drooling retards also think that socialism=communism.
/co/ needs to just stick to talking about picture books and cartoons, like it's good at.
>>82583546
>"Butthurt liberals"
>>82585326
>like it's good at.
not defending this thread but that's a lie and you know it
>>82585317
and you clearly don't either.
>>82585200
Except that's not true, the market is controlled like in any other serious country and it's still a very European country in functionality and government.
Should have used Monaco as a better eample but that's a monarchy
>>82585286
>incorrect interpretation
So is Libertarianism like a religion then where everyone can interpret it differently?
Please, oh wise one, explain what's incorrect about the "interpretation" that the people in this thread have about your faith.
>>82585252
You clear aren't the brightest, but are a libtard so that was obvious
People aren't saying you believe in no government, people aren't saying that is what a libertarian society is. But if you don't believe that a libertarian society would work (even if there was a bit of other philosophies in there) you aren't a libertarian you just agree with some of the ideals. libertarian society =/= no government that is not what people are saying again that is not what people are saying
>>82585023
>if you want to use taxes to pay for government services that is socialism and theft
>but we just want the government to have no power, not for it not to exist, so please do not call Libertarianism Anarcho-Capitalists
Cryptoanarchocapitalist spotted
>tfw classical liberal who believes in strong civil/social liberties and a limited, accountable government
>tfw get rounded up with Ron Paul retards who want McDonalds owned highways and think that pollution can be solved by everyone suing factories
>>82585285
>And isn't hong kong full of slave labor manufacturing and poverty like Kowloon?
Yeah, that sounds about like what a libertarian society would be.
>>82585326
Libertarians don't deserve a voice
>>82585409
>Have what I see as reasonable beliefs
>Get linked in with extremists and hated by the others
>>82585409
same senpai
>>82585375
thats literally any political philosophy
>>82585302
It was actually pretty great. But then it blew up
>>82585252
Every libertarian I've ever met would staunchly disagree with you.
>>82585418
if they don't want to live like that they just have to become rich, it's just that simple
>>82585375
are you actually retarded
do you know how political ideologies work?
>>82585460
Similarly, every libertarian I've met does.
>>82585286
>libertarians, when they hear their ideals repeated back to them, can't deal with the cognitive dissonance of how repulsive and ignorant they sound
El oh el
>>82585375
Reality is subjective. Everything can be interpreted.
>>82585444
no, that's why you make different labels if your ideologies differ from the original form
>>82585466
The sad part is that I can't tell if you're saying this to mock libertarianism or if you're being earnest, because I've seen multiple libertarians say that, without irony, on this very board, just with more weasel words thrown in to make it sound less insane.
>>82585498
>libertarians, when they hear incorrect hyperbolic explanations of their ideology, can't deal with people retardedly explaining it to others
gee, what a surprise.
>>82585514
there is
its called subdivisions ones anarch-cap the other is minarchism
just like Maoism and Leninism
>>82585326
>socialism=communism
That's a grave insult to communists.
>>82585439
Yes, thank you for explaining the post you fucking moron.
>>82585574
Libertarianism is primarly an economic mindset because their attitude toward social liberties is no different than many other political ideologies
>>82585616
I'm pointing out how everyone believes they are like that. Your apparent moderate "classic" beliefs don't look like that to others and you shouldn't think you are special
>>82585081
I actually live in Switzerland, you're full of shit. Not to mention that everything in Switzerland is a lot more expensive, so it's not something to brag about.
>>82583688
>>82583688
a person who unironically thinks that statists are out to get him
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O06acUXAOFQ
>>82585144
/co/ is still better at talking politics than most boards
>>82585717
Not setting the bar very high there.
>>82585656
lmao you really don't understand how politics works at all, do you?
Look up what classical liberalism is. It's a very old ideology. It's not some random made up bullshit. I do not have the same beliefs as an anarcho-capitalist/american libertarian, hence why we follow different political ideologies. They are not the same because they are similar and one is more moderate than the other, that is not how that works. Do you understand?
>>82585679
thats because its in the middle of fucking mountains and snow so everything needs to be imported
Wots a new deal democrat? Not american.
>>82585781
Okay Sargon, I'm sure no one thinks you interpret it wrong and what they believe is a truly moderate stance based in some classical ideals
>>82585810
Basically a classic liberal mixed with a social progressive
>>82585810
during the great depression Roosvelt enacted a series of economic and social policies that get called the new deal, focus on welfare and state jobs etc.
>>82585853
I just don't understand how someone cannot comprehend how political ideology works. I just can't. How can you not understand that liberal/libertarian ideology has moderate beliefs and extremes just like any other? And that different areas of said scale have different names?
>>82585784
First of all, you don't seem to know much about European geography.
Second of all, the Swiss take great pride in selling products "made in Switzerland", and those are just as if not even more expensive. You can't blame importation.
I actually drive or take a 20-minute bus from Geneva to France (no mountains blocking me), and can buy a bunch of groceries for like half the price they would be in Geneva.
>>82585880
>classical liberal
>social progressive
Stop making up bullshit terms.
>>82585810
In the 1930s, Franklin Roosevelt was president. His economic program was referred to as the New Deal. The people that supported him were the New Deal Democrats. Prior to the New Deal, the Democratic party was the party of white southern farmers. The New Deal brought in a huge influx of new members, many of them urban and outside the south. Thus the Democratic party underwent a radical change in both membership and ideology. In order to distinguish this new wave of Democrats from the old guard, they are referred to as New Deal Democrats. Steve Rogers was one of them.
>>82585912
Because you don't understand the very simple idea that extremists don't see themselves as extremists, they see everyone else as one and they see their ideas as moderate well thought out fair ones
Your indignation just makes this funnier, you really can't understand that to many people you would be an extremist and/or misunderstands classical liberalism
>>82585998
What exactly is extremist about classical liberalism? You still haven't explained.
>>82583688
You ever play Bioshock? That's basically it.
>>82585944
He's not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism
>>82586038
There isn't. The guy doesn't actually know what he's talking about.
>>82583688
In my country (Britbongistan), libertarians are basically /pol/ - specifically, the kind of /pol/ that blames Muslims for everything, instead of Jews. They're mostly assholes who think that anything liberals do are wrong, and will bitch about how xenophobia and rap aren't real things, so all the feminists and "multicultural lobbyists" need to go away forever, and anyone who disagrees is a Stalinist who hates freedom of speech.
They also do a good line in pedophile advocacy; one of them got a lot of attention for saying that Operation Yewtree was "Stalin-like" and "Dalek-like", and the best way to deal with child rape/molestation is to forget all about it and never bring the pedophile to justice, because doing that would destroy British law.
>>82586038
ask someone on the other end of the spectrum, and I don't mean the autistic one you are on. This is seriously not a hard concept, saying everyone else but me is too extreme in their views is something everyone says
>>82585810
Dems that relied on propaganda and nationalism in order to pass social and economic reforms, causing the US to rise out of the Great Depression, yet increased government influence over the people. Not saying this was entirely a bad thing, but it paved a rather interventionist policy in American Politics in the years to come.
Personally, I see Captain America as a "Constitutionalist" in ideal only, yet written more socially liberal. The symbol of freedom and strength in times of great peril.
>>82585810
If you're European, a New Deal Democrat can be thought of as a prototype Social Democrat. In many ways it was the beginning of the modern welfare state in the US. It was the idea that the federal government had a role to play in helping the average citizen, especially during rough economic times.
>>82586121
That's what they are here too.
>>82586131
It's almost as if.......the government can use it's power to help people?!?
>>82586121
>In my country
They're pretty much like that everywhere.
>>82586122
Are you actually attempting to say that moderate/centrist political views don't exist? Are you fucking retarded?
>>82586121
There is literally nothing in this post related to libertarianism. That's UKIP/Conservativism
>>82586175
But anon, the government can't do those things. The government paying people to do things is offensive, the government isn't supposed to have money or own things. This is why we all need to get together and occupy some bird refuges.
>>82583768
Fuck the Cap. I will always side with the State over the people it rules over every time. Any sane person would follow my example. Captain Freedom-shill is too busy concerned with his imaginary rights, instead of protecting the political entity that has given those unearned freedoms to the ungrateful citizens in the first place. Captain America has nothing if the State he is supposed to be loyal to perishes by the mindless masses that are too corrupt, incompetent, and cruel to prosper without the proper hand of the government to guide theese blind civilian to modern progression.
When faced with the decision concerning where a citizen's loyalties truly lie, the government must supersede any alternative. The government is the source of human identity. It is the moral foundation of its citizens, how a citizen is clearly defined, and the entity that grants the people their rights. To oppose the government in any fashion should be met with extreme prejudice. A citizen who values the life of their loved ones, whether it is familial relatives or ones founded on friendship, above their allegiance to the State is a traitor to modern civilization, a revolting monstrosity who should perish with their primitive views.
In short, Shill Rogers and his shilling for imaginary rights go burn in a fire for all I care.
>>82586175
Yeah, it can. I wasn't discrediting the merrit of the Policies FDR enacted at the time.
That beinf said, I believe the government should not always be the one to impose laws and regulations based on outspoken special interests groups. The Great Depression and WWII were times of international distress, so a central authority was essential to rally a people to a cause or face chaos. I believe the US government was originally intended as a fail-safe, not as a leader in social or economic change.
However, if you disagree I can respect your opinion.
>>82586214
Can you even read? I am saying people judge what is moderate or extremist by where they stand, you seem to not be able to comprehend this and believe everyone sees you as a moderate and themselves as extremists
>>82586336
>It is the moral foundation of its citizens, how a citizen is clearly defined, and the entity that grants the people their rights. To oppose the government in any fashion should be met with extreme prejudice
Not a Libtard, but come on.
>>82586358
You're not even making a real point, you're just stating the obvious. That's where the confusion is coming from. Yes, extremists most of the time don't see themselves as extremists,that is true. Moderates/centrists in politics actually exist,however as there's a bit more objectivity with being a moderate in politics when compared to say, religion. Take for example the Liberal Democrat party in the UK. They pride themselves on being a centrist, moderate option between Labour and the Conservatives. By your logic, that would mean they could be extremists and just see themselves as moderates. Anyone with any sense would just look at their actual policy and ideology and determine that yes, they are moderate liberals.
It's not that difficult to understand, you know.
>>82586336
> I will always side with the State over the people it rules over every time. Any sane person would follow my example.
Right, which is why any sane person would support the Khmer Rouge in its campaign to exterminate anyone who wore glasses.
>>82585130
>>82584933
>>82585167
BLM was made as a way of saying "Black lives matter too" not just "Only black lives matter"
It's the equivalent of saying "ALL DISEASES MATTER YOU BIGOTED CUNTS" at a cancer rally
>>82586444
>It's not that difficult to understand, you know.
If he did this wouldn't have been an argument in the first place.
>>82586336
False flag
>>82586336
Are you seriously suggesting that people should just blindly follow the state, and that the state can do no wrong?
Do you realize where that can, and has lead so many times in the past?
>>82586467
Its a big rally, why can't I also raise awareness for HIV?
>>82586527
because Americans still think that's only a gay disease
>>82586444
>It's not that difficult to understand,
Then I don't know why pointing out to you that your post was dumb took so long and you strawmaned me forever. Maybe you are an extremists at being a twat
>>82586467
>"Only black lives matter"
Too bad that's what it turned into.
>>82586467
I don't read Cap as one to mince words to placate the political agendas of others.
If he was lobbed the Bernie question he'd say All Lives Matter because he legitimately believes that.
>>82586551
You're barely even coherent at this point.
That entire reply chain started with me saying you were stating the obvious. Then you led us on a retard chain of misunderstanding and we're back at me carefully explaining that you are simply stating the obvious.
I'm asking you this honestly, can you breath without assistance?
>>82586444
>that would mean they could be extremists and just see themselves as moderates.
They do, they see other parties going too far the other way and where they stand as the sensible moderate place that has struck a good balance.
You just seem really arrogant,
>>82586556
> implying that wasn't what it always was
>>82586550
HIV rates are falling all across groups like junkies, Russians and straights.
Faggots are the only group that has rising rates.
>>82586336
you lost, let it go Tony.
>>82586607
The thing is, the Lib-Dems aren't extremists. They actually are moderates. They are moderates and see themselves as moderates.You can determine this yourself by opening their manifesto or actually looking up what they are.
You just seem really ignorant.
>>82586444
you seem to think there is some type of true middle position when it is really something that shifts as ideals do
>>82586658
>Russians
How did they get their own category?
>junkies dropping
>Not gays
I'm dubious.
>>82586695
Go ask ISIS if they think they are, chances are they'd say they are crazy extremist infidels who have taken things to far
>>82586467
There's examples of police brutality of all ages, races and genders on a daily basis, however most are not reported. And even so, a vast majority of police perform actions of "protection" rather than "enforcement".
My issue with the movement is that the group claims that it's protesting police brutality, while focussing only on race, willfully ignorant of the circumstances of the altercation and in certain cases justifying the actions of the individual to either disobey or confront the police and escalate the exchange.
I only say all lives matter in the very real sense that I desire equality, and focussing on the police as the problem is ignoring the real problem of unstable communities where crime and social distress run rampant.
>>82586704
You're right, there is no "true" middle position, but there is a specturm of centrist/extremist ideology. Centrist/moderate politics is an objective thing that actually exists, in no world could the Lib-Dems be considered extremist.
>>82586175
>>82586189
Really? I assumed the "child rapists shouldn't be punished" was unique to UK libertarians.They only think that should be applied to white pedophiles, of course - they were full of condemnation for the Hindu sex slavers... but that quickly devolved into "multiculturalism is bad and should be gotten rid of asap!" bollocks.
>>82586249
UKIP are libertarian - they even say so in interviews. That's why most British libertarians have hitched their wagon to Nigel's ghoulish aura... well, that, and their "REMOVE KEBAB" policy.
>>82586741
Here we are going back in circles again.
Yes, we have acknowledged that many extremists don't see themselves as so. Howevers, moderates/centrists do actually exist. Especially in politics where it is a legitimate form of ideology.
>>82586759
Why don't you create a movement that highlights this nonracial brutality? Or atleast try to spread that information.
>>82586819
>UKIP are libertarian - they even say so in interviews. That's why most British libertarians have hitched their wagon to Nigel's ghoulish aura... well, that, and their "REMOVE KEBAB" policy.
Libertarian here, they're fucking not. They want to massively increase military spending. That's not very libertarian.
>>82586615
It was never about black lives. If the BLM agitators actually cared about black lives, then they would stop slaughtering each other in numbers that far exceed all the police killings in the world combined. BLM was never about black lives, it was always just an excuse to loot, riot, and lynch police officers, just like every "movement" that came before it.
>>82586336
>There are people in my country who would follow any order, regardless of inhumane it is, by the government, because they see it as the ultimate authority.
I honestly fear for the nation's future when there are people who have such blind, yet fanatical faith in the government. Willing to resort themselves to any act and cross any moral boundary so long as the government approves of it.
>>82586741
I imagine they would say that others haven't taken things far enough. Having grown up with a number of religious extremists and seeing their positions first hand, most of them don't erroneously believe they are moderates.
They understand that their ideology is extreme, or at the very least more extreme than others. But to them that is a good thing.
You're trying to frame the whole thing from some kind of moral relativistic POV, when that isn't really whats happening. Just because someone aknowledges they are an extremist doesn't mean they suddenly think they are in the wrong.
>>82586821
No hang on, why doesn't ISIS's view count now? Why is how they see the what is extreme and what is moderate not count but you have chosen what is the objective middle? It wasn't 100 years ago and it won't be in 100 years time
>>82586888
>libtards running on their high horse
That'll be $30 dollars for police protection, thanks.
>>82586912
>Why is how they see the what is extreme
What did he mean by this?
>>82586866
You don't honestly believe all of that do you? That everyone got together and just decided to loot? Then why would they organize protests at the Sanders campaign and stuff like that?
>>82586819
American Libertarians I've talked to say that the Government only has the right to enforce contracts and prevent rights from being infringed on.
So a child predator is infringing on your right to not be raped, I guess? They tend to be die-hard constitution literalists too.
>>82586826
>>82586826
Truth be told, I believe the police do a great job and should be acknowledged as doing a job that whether you admit it or not puts you in the forefront of all danger within your community. I am not one personally, but you must always keep your attention high and be ready for anything. In such a case, I believe people will always err on the side of caution.
That is of course NOT to say all cops are perfect, as there are plenty of power-hungry dicks in the world. I believe corruption and a neglect of duty should be weeded out of any community, but should not be indicative of an occupation as a whole.
>>82586912
I'm guessing you're about 15 and have just learnt what subjectivity is. Yeah, you're not quite grasping that in a political scenario relativistic subjectivity doesn't quite fly the same way it does in other areas.
political centrism has not changed that much in 100 years, actually. We can determine by actually using our brains and thinking critically that communism and anarcho capitalism are both extremist branches of the political spectrum. An anarcho capitalist or communist might not see themselves as extremist, but that's not the point. A classical liberal is more moderate than a libertarian. A socialist is more moderate than a communist. The Lib-Dems are more centrist than Labour or the Conservatives. These are not subjective viewpoints, this is not art or whatever you've been reading about at school. This is politics, where ideologies have aspects of objectivity when it comes to how extremist/centrist they are.
Now, read carefully because you're obviously having a hard time. There is no true, hard objective centrist/moderate ideology, however, it is not an entirely subjective topic and there are some ideologies which are objectively more moderate than others. Conservativism is not as extremist as Nazism, for example. That is not subjective.
>>82583546
Do libertarians believe they should be able to circumvent other countries sovereignty? If yes, hes a libertarian. if no, then he isn't
>>82587080
I don't think corruption in the 'fuck it I'll just shoot him' level is as bad as people make it out to be but I think there is a huge problem of police covering it up when it does happen and other things like that.
>>82587080
People don't have a problem with the concept of police. They have a problem with, like you said, the established institutions misusing their power.
>>82587104
>political centrism has not changed that much in 100 years, actually
oh so we are still okay with slavery? Or was everyone just an extremist back then and just knew where the real middle was?
And you can cut all the huh duh you are 15 and dummy as it really doesn't make you look smarter
>>82583688
A political ideology that combines the worst aspects of Liberalism and Conservatism
>libertarianism is the exact same as anarcho-capitilism
this is what happens when you learn about politics from /pol/ memes
Cap's anti-surveillance state, anti-drug war, anit-war, doesn't trust any government to have a monopoly on civil defense and mentions freedom every second sentance, that's libertarian enough by today's American standards
>>82587260
>>82587267
Everything I see regarding BLM has been to the effect of black lives matter, emphasizing the "black lives". There are many attempts daily to weed out corruption, but it is not a systemic problem as portrayed by this group in particular.
It is a case-by-case basis, and frankly every single case I've seen this group focus on has been a very poor example of police overstepping their authority, and only focussing on the race of the "victim".
In short, they should focus on other more clear cases of police brutality. Do you disagree
>>82583546
He's a new deal Democrat. He literally voted for FDR. That makes him closer to a communist than any politician alive today would dare admit.
>>82587295
>oh so we are still okay with slavery? Or was everyone just an extremist back then and just knew where the real middle was?
You realize that 100 years ago was 1916, right? Slavery had been banned in the UK since 1807 and 1865 in America. The political scene was really not that massively different.
>>82583688
In America, the word "liberal" got co-opted, used to describe socialists who want government control over the economy while allowing people to do what they want socially. As such, we needed a new word for people who want the government to control NETHER our finances nor our personal lives. Hence the word "libertarian" arose.
>>82587573
Except he's also very much in favor of a social safety net and regulation on big business. Cap is, depending on the era, usually more of an FDR New Deal Democrat or a LBJ Great Society Democrat.
>>82587576
I disagree that it isn't systematic especially when it comes to cops lying to cover other cops.
>>82584554
You're confusing libertarians and anarcho-capitalists. Fine line, maybe, but it's there.
>>82587907
but anon, as we have learnt from this thread, all liberals are extremist libertarians who think theyr'e actually moderates, but everything is subjective.
>>82587573
>Captain America
>anti-war
>anti-drug
Well, I guess he can't be Cap AMERICA without being a giant hypocrite
>>82587612
You are correct, but New Deal was way before LBJ and the modern welfare state. It would be very believable if he actually was, relatively speaking a modern libertarian.
But from a practical matter, the comic book industry is NYC leftist through it's entirety, and he's consistently written as "government is here to help".
I suppose you'd see him as libertarian if you're idea of centrist is Che Guevera, but I'm not seeing it, particularly in a US political context.
>>82588132
This started because some trigga on Salon wrote an article bitching about how Cap's refusal to allow the Avengers to be hamstrung by bureaucrats meant he was a "douchey libertarian". The bitch acknowledged Cap's origins and predominant characterization as a Nee Deal democrat, but complained because the character exhibited nuanced and emotional moralizing and decision making instead of dogmatic adherence to the progressive agenda. It was a troll article and this is a troll thread.
>>82587980
He's anti-war in the sense that he's against "bad" wars. He wants there to be peace and wants to fight those that hurt others, he doesn't want America to just go around invading other countries to impose its rule. He doesn't think war should be glorified. Cap hates bullies and would-be-conquerors.
>>82583688
Basically they hold two core beliefs
>What you do in your own time is your own business and as long as you don't harm anyone the government has no right telling you what to do
>Your money is your property so the government has no right telling you how to spend it or even to tax you, beyond perhaps a very small amount
This is often confused with Classical Liberalism, though Classical Liberals believe that the Government itself is necessary to protect the rights of those living within its borders.
>>82588327
I would count Salon, particularly in desperate for eyeballs mode, as slightly right of Stalin.
>>82586857
Neither is taking social security, and that didn't stop Ayn Rand
>>82587079
See, over here most libertariansor rather, the ones that the BBC pays attention to because one of them is in some authority at BBC Radiosay that prosecuting child rapists will infringe on British law, as it may be that some are being falsely accused... except they also say that even if you were raped, then you should just shut up and not make a big deal out of it, and it probably wasn't THAT bad anyway... besides, you probably MEANT to say "yes"!
>>82587980
Anti-Drug War
>>82583768
>That's the real captain america!
>I recognize his penchant for annoying idealistic speeches!
>>82584039
You're not a libertarian.
>>82588926
>people in BBC saying not to prosecute pedos
wonder why...
>>82590199
616 Cap would definitely not be pro-trump. Maybe ultimate cap would.
