Am I the only one who thought he was a great villian?
>>82575310
he wasn't a god
he wasn't a robot
Just a man. an angry determined manipulative man. Who was much closer to victory than Loki or Ultron ever was.he didn't die either.
he was pretty good. I hope they use him again and not just kill him off.Like Crossbones
>inb4 not muh Zemo
fuck off with your super glue
>>82575310
He was fine, just not a supervillain which I guess people were expecting for some reason? The movie was already pretty busy with such a large cast, dunno why some people wanted even fucking more out of him, this was nice and neat and wasn't some retarded "kill Batman or I'll rape/kill your mommy" shit.
>>82575310
I hope we see more of him. Best MCU villain so far.
His whole plan hinged on Steve not telling Anthony about his parents. Not a good plan.
>>82575310
I thought he was just as manipulative as Zemo has always been. He's definitely more sympathetic than traditional Zemo, but still badass. What I find interesting was all the early reviews saying he was barely in the film or that he was just like Lex in BvS. Then you watch the film and see he appears throughout the movie and is clearly the villain and has a major presence and is operator as fuck murdering anyone in his way. He may not have the sword yet but his bitterness and keikakku were classic Zemo.
>>82575310
he did great imo.he didnt had much screen time in the movie but it was effective.no suit is a bummer.
>>82575310
He might actually be my favorite MCU villain (behind Loki probably) strictly because of how low key he is plus the long term damages to the team he actually manages to cause.
>>82575310
Wasn't his plan a bit over complicated? Why did he need to lure them in the Russian bunker? Couldn't he just send Tony the tape right after they captured Bucky?
Main problem was that his name was Zemo
>>82575501
He only arrived at the Hydra base for a few hours when Cap arrived so I don't think he quite had the time to do much, plus he probably wanted to get Cap and Stark as alone as possible so the other Avengers wouldn't stop them killing each other. Whatever their reasons for fighting they were kind of always pulling their punches to some degree because they weren't trying to hurt each other at the airport.
>>82575489
>What I find interesting was all the early reviews saying he was barely in the film or that he was just like Lex in BvS. Then you watch the film and see he appears throughout the movie and is clearly the villain and has a major presence and is operator as fuck murdering anyone in his way.
i thought the same. i was asking myself if people were just nitpicking because they didnt wanted to look like marvel dick rider. he did better than most other MCU vilains beside loki and yellowjacket and they treat him like he was rohan.
>>82575488
but did it worked?
>>82575501
Zemo needed them alone to ensure Tony would have the least opposition from losing his shit. All the guards and superheroes around when Bucky was captured would have convinced to kill his hate boner for a moment.
>>82575477
>Best MCU villain so far.
Which isn't saying much
>>82575310
He felt like a return to Nicieza's Zemo, which I am more than okay with.
Quiet frankly the Hydra shit that got inflicted on comics Zemo after Nicieza left was the worst thing to happen to the character.
>>82575562
Yeah, most MCU villains really sucks.
Stane, Blonsky, Pierce, Zemo, and maybe Loki are the only decent villains we've had so far.
At least Mads Mikkelsen looks like he might be cool in Doctor Strange.
>>82575343
>closer
he actually won you idiot
he was definitely great.
tony and cap will never, NEVER, feel the same about eachother.
he turned half the avengers into criminals.
he won.
its going to take a big purple guy in the sky to bring them together.
>>82575343
didnt he won? none of the leaders died but the team is fractured at least until IW
>>82575665
And after that, they'll part ways most likely.
If Russos stay true, this will be a big victory.
>>82575688
After Winter Soldier and Civil War I have complete fate in the Russos. They'll make the Avengers movie franchise Great Again.
>>82575310
>discount Lex Luthor
>MUH REVENGE
>lol an over complicated plan that needed so many coincidence to work that's impossible but who cares I watch these movies for the quips!
>>82575703
Agreed. I hope the executives don't try to force them to be all happy again. It'll destroy all tension amd build up that Civil War did.
>>82575310
He was great. I don´t know why the people say "not muh Zemo"
>Muh family
>Muh costumes and make ups
>Muh ruses
>Muh hateboner for Cap
>>82575665
>he turned half the avengers into criminals.
Half the Avengers would have been criminals without him
>>82575725
Yeah you don't know what you're talking about
>>82575643
>>82575683
>implying they're not going to be all chummy again by IW
hell, I felt Cap extend an olive branch during the letter and Tony is clearly done doing to Ross' bidding
>>82575742
Not really. Cap was mostly reluctant and if the bombing never happened, the signing would have happened and he probably would have just disappeared.
>>82575768
So? They were defeated by Zemo in Civil War.
>>82575768
>implying they're going to be alive by the end of IW
>>82575774
Same thing really
>>82575792
If it was irreparably broken maybe yeah but nobody died and it already looks like their relationship(s) are on the mend.
Zemo got real close. Closer than any Avengers villain ever has. But his victory was fleeting at best.
>>82575828
>implying Thanos won't subconsciously wish them alive again because he secretly a giant pussy
>>82575488
Steve didn't know bucky did it but suspected he did. That's why he says he didn't know it was bucky but because Iron Man is so full of rage he doesn't care and accuses him of lying then steve admits he had strong suspicions.
Even if they succeeded here and Zemo was taken in the Avengers would still be pretty fucked up, Tony wouldn't just go shut the prison down because he can't as he is still the UN's bitch. Most of them would still be in Wakanda with Black Panther.
It felt like his plan could adapt on the fly to me, I mean, he couldn't have known Black Panther would suddenly realize that revenge is not the answer.
>>82575853
Only the Cap tried to not condemn his friends for all eternity and did the prison break but Zemo's victory was total.
Everyone is on the run outlawed by the whole world minus 20 countries, Rodhey crippled, Bucky armless, Wanda hates them all specially Vision, the one or two that stayed at base are now government bitches.
>>82575912
a total victory for Zemo would have been Cap or Stark killing the other
>>82575853
>closer
It was absolute and total.
An argument can be said for Cap morals but that's it. They are not gonna die yet ofc there are still movies pending.
>>82575935
I don't recall Cap or Tony murdering each other, so no total victory for Zemo
>>82575343
>>inb4 not muh Zemo
>fuck off with your super glue
It's a shame he wasn't a glue maker in the movie.The best glue maker in all of Sokovia.
>>82575929
>>82575828
>>82575792
Remember this are movies targeted at kids and lower, the "good guys" have to prevail.
The fact there is a "wrong kind of motivation" should give you a hint is total fantasy.
>>82575948
Zemo never said they needed to kill each other, just go against each other and tear each other part which he did.
>>82575948
Good because Zemo wanted to destroy them not kill them.
Wonder if he is gonna team up with Thanos
>>82575973
>>82575967
Yeah, from the martin freeman scene, I'm sure he felt that it would be ezmode if either one of them died.
>>82576001
Only if he gives him the mask,
>>82576001
I think Loki will end up working with Thanos in a roll like Mephisto, and that will be Hiddleston's way out of the MCU as well.
Zemo will come back after IW leading the Thunderbolts.
>>82575310
Oh I almost forgot he was in this movie.
>>82575973
>>82575967
>>82576012
fractured yes
IDK about broken. need to see how big the rift is between the two groups in coming movies
>>82576065
Fractured is a good word. Still, some damage has been done and his exchange with Ross implies there is more in store with Zemo later on.
>>82576065
And because this is the last film available so far, then yes, they are defeated.
>>82576091
I don't trust Disney with MCU villains
worried for Zemo
>>82576110
My only concern is they let the Russos continue down this darker tone and call the shots so to speak. If the executives start trying to move back to their formula, or wanting a happy everything is fine, kill off all villians shit then I would be worried also.
>>82576091
>Fractured is a good word.
Almost like there's a Schism between them
>>82576036
Loki has already failed Thanos. If anything Thanos barges into Asgard and wrecks him before stealing the Tessaract.
He was a great villain but he might as well have been an original character
>>82575310
How is Zemo going to drink that wine?
>>82576267
If they put him in later movies he can become a more comic accurate Zemo.
>>82576292
How will later movies change his past
>>82576267
>Muh family
>Muh keikaku
>Muh avengers/cap hate boner
He has enough common themes to accurately be labeled Zemo, mask or not.
I'm fucking sick of people claiming a decent character isn't so just because they're not written/portrayed the exact same way as they were in 'so-and-so's run'.
>>82576320
I didn't say he wasn't a decent character though. I quite liked his character.
But he was still basically an original character masquerading as Zemo.
>>82575611
Watch the TV shows; Wilsonm Fisk, Purple Man, Grant Ward, Cal and Hive are great
>>82576581
Seen all of them, but it just feels wrong to count them as part of the MCU when they function more as the "Expanded MCU".
>>82575310
By the sounds of it you're the only one who tread the comics.
>>82576581
>Purple Man
>great
You have no taste.
>>82576762
>Yano posting on my /co/
>>82576329
>But he was still basically an original character masquerading as Zemo.
Comic Zemo is a clusterfuck of different characters. Frankly he never needed to wear a balaclava in Civil War because he was an obscure person. Why would he want to wear a mask everywhere when people don't even know who he is? That would just draw attention. For most of the film he took advantage of the fact that he LOOKS like a normal civilian.
>>82575725
>who cares I watch these movies for the quips!
That's not a real argument
Movers
>>82575310
>Am I the only one who thought he was a great villian?
I like that he was effective without being melodramatic. I think this speaks to an underrated facet of villain writing. Most people think "villain" means over-the-top.
>>82575343
>>inb4 not muh Zemo
On a serious note, how many iconic Zemo runs are there? Eh, whatever the case. I liked Remender's Zemo on his short-run.
>>82575310
Dunno. Honestly, he seemed like a fucking pussy that cannot understand that, in war, shit happens and civilians unintentionally die.
>>82581440
Tony Stark created Ultron though. Everything that happened to Zemo's family was on him.
>>82575310
REMOVE
AVENGER
Make Sokovia great again
>>82581325
Remender's Zemo was awful. Just continuing the trend that Brubaker and Hopeless started of completely throwing away all the character growth he had during Thunderbolts.
>>82581538
Brubaker's Zemo at least made sense in that hearing Bucky is back and working as Cap would have triggered the duck out of classic Zemo. Even then he didn't kill Bucky just trolled him hardcore and made his crimes known to the public. He didn't kill the hero mainly just made sure he could no longer enjoy the life he previously had. Sounds similar to Civil War, no? Also, didn't Zeno technically wear a mask when he had the face change mask on pretending to be Bucky?
>>82581440
It's pretty easy for you to say that, as an outside observer with an objective perspective. Put yourself in Zemo's shoes. He lost his entire family. Would you just shrug that off and go on with your life? Let me guess, you also think Tony should have sucked it up when he found out Bucky murdered his parents.
>>82575310
No one is arguing that he wasn't a great villain they just don't understand why he is Zemo. If he had been Joe Smith nobody it would have made it better, but because he is Zemo you already know he is the bad guy.
>>82581440
That's a mighty fine strawman you're building there with that false equivalence
>>82581538
The decision to completely ignore all the character developement he had at the end of Thunderbolts and the Born Better mini will forever be baffling to me.
Especially since Born Better seemed to prime him for a full-on redemption arc, what with him becoming completely disillusioned by his family and wanting to make up for his own crimes and the crimes of his family in general.
>>82575562
Kingpin and the Purple man were fantastic
>>82581508
Someone make an edit with Zemo's face.
I liked him a lot too, he actually won and left the avengers broken and you could see clearly where he was coming from.
I hope they use him again in the future in some way.
>>82582356
He's still doing the messiah complex thing? Trying to save the world by conquest and miserably failing at it?
My only complaint is that there was no "Baron" in his presence. No sense of superiority or family birthright getting involved.
Sure military Colonel is an accomplishment but maybe a little bit more could have been done with his background.
>>82583629
Kingpin, maybe.
That godawful Purple Man definitely wasn't.
He was fine though there are some things I'd like them to expand on if/when he shows up again. Has to be more to him than the sob story of course for him to really hit the mark.
>>82584290
I think they left the stronger details of his background ambiguous specifically to build on it down the line if they want.
Some latent superiority was there for me in that scene at the Hydra guy's house.
>>82575611
>Mads Mikkelsen
I want to hope he would do fine because he was great in Casino Royale and kind of scary in Hannibal, but then again Eccleston is a good actor and you see how him being in MCU turned out.
>>82575310
he was fine, but ultimately forgettable like most marvel villains. luckily most of the movie is about tony vs cap so its doesnt matter much
>>82584584
Eccelston's character wasn't bad because of the acting, that was all on the shit script.
I did like they hinted Zemo's mask in the movie. Too subtle for first viewing.
>>82584656
And that's why I'm bothered.
MCU can hype you up by hiring a good actor, then shit the bed with the script.
Look at Ray Stevenson, he has so much potential to play either a hero or a villain and knock it out of the park and yet he's stuck playing fucking Volstagg, a comic relief character with little screentime.
Kind of funny, both those examples are from Thor movies.
>>82575310
I liked him. He was a regular dude who hated super people because of what they did to his family. His character would have been cheapened if he was a real super villain.
>"Did you think I actually wanted more of you?"
Moment where it all clicked for me.
Why is Zemo so freakin' mean?
>>82578606
I thought it was kinda funny that they took advantage of the fact Bruhl and Sebastian Stan look kinda similar. Bruhl was able to disguise himself as Bucky with basically what was glorified makeup.
>>82584825
They're obviously going to make him a real supervillain by having him decide that the only way to win is to replace the Avengers and force the world into peace
>>82575959
>movies targeted at kids and lower
More like teens and young adults.
>>82585134
Teens and young adults are probably not that hyped for the MCU anymore because it started when they were kids so they look down on it now because of that dumb adolescent "I have to grow up and watch other things now" stage. They like those shitty comedy movies in the vein of the Hangover and pretend like R rating makes things good along with playing CoD all day.
Teenagers are awful, my man.
>>82584734
Elaborate
>>82581440
>a foreign country invades yours
>their soldiers kill your family
>"Shit happens man, that's war"
>>82575310
i think you misspelled the word vill"""ai"""n
>>82575310
>Am I the only one
How to spot a shit thread 101.
Why does everyone act like he had some master plan when he says in the first scene he's improvising with the hydra agent?
I like the dude but everyone acts like he was some keikaku master instead of just taking advantage of what he had to hurt the avengers.
>>82575501
Because he wanted them there without the rest of their friends trying to hold Tony and Cap back.
>>82575310
HE WAS MOTHER FUCKING GOD TIER
>>82576320
/co/mrades aren't happy unless the villain is in costume, no matter how silly it looks.
>>82581325
>Most people think "villain" means over-the-top.
Those are the same people who think Gotham is a good show.
>>82585541
The people complaining are likely from /tv/ and just pretending to have comic knowledge. Don't call them /co/mrades.
And Zemo's modern costumes aren't silly anyway.
>>82575310
Thunderbolts incoming!
What was the point of Tim from The Office's character. I remember when he was cast they were all "IT'S A SECRET" about who he was playing and he ended up being literally no one
>>82575310
The Disney equivalent of cloud Galactus, but Disney kids eat it up because the branding is right.
>>82585929
He's playing a bigger role in the Black Panther film. Most likely as the audience surrogate
>>82578606
I'm not gonna lie, I kept getting confused about who this normal dude was everytime he popped up. I kept forgetting who he was.
Maybe it was because I didn't care too.
>>82585929
He's primarily a Black Panther supporting character. They probably just introduced him here as an early cameo.
>>82575557
imagine if BP did fall for zemo's shit, he'd have helped IM and Cap and bucky would be dead.
>Have a scene where Zemo is hiking through Siberian mountains
>Don't give him a purple ski mask
>>82585265
box office and focus testing says otherwise.
Teenagers are still awful though.
>>82586949
They will still watch in large enough numbers but they're not specifically the target.
The things actually targetting them are Hunger Games and Divergent along with the aforementioned shitty comedies.
>>82583908
Yeah, same here
>>82584734
What? When?
>>82575959
Zemo won tho
well when he gets killed along with the rest of the Earth by Thanos bc the Avengers weren't there to stop him he'll have lost but
>>82575477
As movies go, I agree. But the end of the movie damn near voided any "Victory" he would have had. I know staying on the safe side is Marvel's MO but this movie was like watching a softball game where the player wore riot gear.
>>82587592
>the villain lost at the end
Oh man what a twist
>>82581325
Nomad didn't even die here.
>>82575501
Pretty sure the tape was in the bunker, he didn't have it on hand the whole time.
My complaint with Marvel movies has always been about them having weak villains (Even Loki is boring compared to his comic counterpart), but with JJ, Daredevil, and now Civil War having great villains, I hope this trend stays.
Doctor Strange is next, and I'm really hoping we don't have a Malaketh or Ronan 2.0
>>82588899
Rumors say that Mordo and Dormammu will be covillains, and I doubt either of them will be killed off (Mikkelsen might, if he's just a temporary host body).
>>82575310
From the thumbnail it looks like he has a mullet.
>>82587743
>Nomad didn't even die here.
he should've. . .
>>82575310
He was a great villain, but the Zemo name was wasted on him, considering they didn't use anything from his comic book counterpart.
Seriously just give him a different name and i'd be ready to laud him as one of the best MCU villains yet, but as it is I can't help but to feel a little salty about the fact that we can never see a proper Zemo in the MCU. It's one thing to simply not use him, another entirely to purposely make him unusable.
>>82590552
I still don't understand posts like this.
Probably my favorite aspect of him is that they kept him a manipulator through the end. They didn't make him an "anti-Cap" which is a huge cliche that Marvel uses too much, both in comics and in the movies.
It would have been a REALLY easy and obvious road for them to go down that he'd take some Winter Soldier serum himself, particularly because the flashback indicated that some of the other Winter Soldiers were stronger than Bucky.
>>82590755
That's because you are the Marvel target audience
>>82590812
That and they seemed more aggressive, whereas Bucky was efficient and didn't kill outside of orders.
>>82590842
No, I've read all of Thunderbolts. I don't see how he was unZemolike outside of the family background and seeming lack of megalomania. He was Zemo in every other way.
>>82575912
> Stark broken but Parker might help him heal.
> Cap with T'challa and Falcon, but cut off from Sharon.
> Bucky iced like Coors.
> Wanda even more of an outsider than ever, fearful of humans.
> Rhodey now hardline Accords bovver boy.
> Ants now has to keep himself Scant.
>>82585265
Wow, this post really put a lot of the MCU shitposting into perspective. Things like "le dance off bro XD" and "BvS is a philosophical masterpiece" shitposting make a lot more sense once you consider the fact that it's probably just a bunch of cunty little teenagers that hate fun because fun isn't "mature."
>>82575958
> tfw No Wundagore living clay in the MCU.
>>82592683
Well, see, that's the problem. Stuff like family background and wearing a purple ski mask are things someone whose only read a wikipedia article on him to brush up on the character right before or after seeing the movie to feel superior in their "comic knowledge" would be aware of. His actual character is something that you'd have to read the comics themselves to get an idea of.
So they see that the movie didn't have him be an actual sword-wielding, purple-mask wearing Baron that's the descendent of nazis, and say "well then that's not Zemo" because nothing in the movie matched up with what they read on wikipedia. Things like his love of keikakku wouldn't be evident on wikipedia.
I'd love to see him evolve as a sord of villanous mastermind through the thunderbolts, costume and all. Maybe they'll go with Citizen Z costume first, but there is plenty of room for the character to evolve.Also, how bad ass would it be to have Crossbones come back, somehow having survived the explosion even more fucked up then what he was before and just keeps coming back every movie after you think he's dead.
>>82593903
>spoiler
pls russos, make it so
>>82593903
He'll just be a recurring joke that looks worse and worse each time.
>>82594046
Not if he does more than blow up, I should think. Crossbones is a nifty character. But he was just a prop in this week's film.
>>82576260
Loki is working for:
> Himself
> Thanos
> A third party
Knowing Loki, it could be all of the above.
>>82575343
I thought he did a good job I just don't understand why he was Zemo.
>>82575929
>a total victory for Zemo would have been Cap or Stark killing the other
Nope. Because if either died then there would have to be a funeral. And in a funeral everyone would have to attend, and they would have been forced to reconcile. The writers outright stated that they don't want the Avenges to get back together at the end of the film, and a funeral WOULD have forced them to get back together.
>>82575611
I liked Darren Cross. Crossbones was a pretty good evil thug sort of bad guy until they blew him up.
>>82597571
Yeah I'd put Cross up with Stane. They're just too similar that it's hard to like one and not the other unless one's problem with Cross is specifically that he's too similar to Stane.
>>82575453
Hey that's neat. Thats really fun.
>>82575310
Was Zemo's big plan just to get Tony, Steve, and Bucky in the same room at the same time so he can do his big reveal?
What was he planning to do if Tony didn't show up?
>>82599311
Get a copy of the video and send it to Tony probably.
>>82599719
Which would give time for Tony to cool down after an initial shock and think rationally. He might even question the video's authenticity.
I really enjoyed his characer in the movie. He had real motivation and most of his conflicts where handled indirectly. Yeah I would have liked to have seen hydra zemo and his melodramatic personality but I can see why they wouldn't want to use hydra as the big baddie again.
>>82599847
There's nothing to question since it's authentic, and not like either of them would have denied it.
If he had really lost it he could have called for Vision to help him take them down.
>>82599311
He didn't give a shit about Bucky besides knowing where the Russian base was.
He just wanted to give Tony a reason to hate Cap, which was nearly impossible, but thanks to the leaks+patience+time he managed to do it.
His plan wasn't that outlandish or overly complicated besides trying to steal information from people, he just came too close for comfort of being caught twice.
He also seized the opportunity where 117 countries were at the same spot to give them a common goal, so they could capture Bucky for him so he could interrogate him and learn where the Siberian base was. He knew Bucky had killed Stark's parents, but he wanted the confirmation and the video.
He didn't plan or care for the airport scene, he didn't care if Cap was in Siberia with or without Tony, and he didn't necessarily wanted Tony to kill Cap. Tony and Steve were on good terms in Siberia for the most part.
He just wanted to insert a seed of mistrust between them that sooner or later it would destroy the Avengers. The fact that it happened so fast (besides the sake of the movie) was just a bonus for him. Knowing that he had won so fast made gave him closure and he tried to off himself because it was beyond his hands from then on.
It's a simple plan that the movie's events kind of shadowed, but that's only because Tony always makes things worse and more dramatic, hence the battle.
I honestly think his plan was flawed, what if Tony didn't come, what if Cap and Bucky didn't come, what if they didn't get on the Jet? What if Ant-Man and Captain America came instead theres to many what ifs here.
>>82600170
It wouldn't have mattered either way.
Because then Tony would not trust Steve from then on. Maybe not then, but in the next mission or the next movie, the next time tensions would go up, there'd be no ceiling to the argument, because Tony finally had a crack through which to vent all his pent up jealousy. Up until then Stark has always backed down from discussion out of respect for Cap/his logic. Heck, he forgave him for not signing the Accords and went strictly against them.
Zemo gave the Avengers the one thing that could destroy them: he showed them one time that Stark was a victim. With that, it'd be only a matter of time until Stark gets pissed at Cap. It's a time bomb. The airport fight only accelerated it.
>>82600170
>I honestly think his plan was flawed, what if Tony didn't come, what if Cap and Bucky didn't come, what if they didn't get on the Jet?
The writers say if they didn't show up, Zemo would just keep the video and release it at a different time when it would cause maximum damage. He didn't need to release it right THEN.
>>82600170
he took a leaf out of loki's book
>>82581440
Even if Ultron wasn't totally and completely Tony's fault, it wouldn't really matter, because it's HIS family that died. At the end of the day, only a tiny amount of the population is truly selfless, most people only care about themselves, and if they can do something about it, they very well might.
>>82600350
Didn't even necessarily have to release it to Tony, he could have gone public with it with something like
>how can you trust the Avengers when they can't even trust their own friends
Cap and Widow already knew Howard's death wasn't an 'accident' from Zola, probably a few Hydra floating around would have some way to also leak that information if only for revenge against Cap and shit. But for the sake of the movie, they make everything happen in as neat a package as possible.
>>82581508
REMOVE SHAWARMA
