I think one of the biggest problems with Wonder Woman is that she has had more inconsistency in her origin/background than most other characters of her caliber.
>Molded from clay
>Daughter of Zeus/Hades
>Can fly
>Can't fly, has to use jet
>is superman level strong
>can be hurt by bullets
>has a secret identity
>Is just Wonder Woman full time
>Is hundreds of years old because magic
>Is only as old as she appears
>Themyscira is technologically advanced
>Themyscira is ancient and only uses magic
So my question to you /co/ is what is YOUR ideal version of Wonder Woman?
What combination of elements from her various interpretations to you is right for the character?
>>82456043
Mostly the magical/mythology based stuff. Makes her stand out from the other core JL members if she's the one who can recognize spells and legends from myth.
I prefer it when she's powerful enough to hang with Superman level foes -- slightly weaker but makes up for it with her magical gear and combat acumn.
Her direct origin, the whole "made from clay/daughter of zeus/daughter of Hercules" thing I could care less about. It's a pretty trivial difference and has changed so much that it's not sacrosanct like Batman's origin.
>>82456962
>pretty trivial difference and has changed so much that it's not sacrosanct like Batman's origin.
I kind of disagree. Primarily because the "daughter of" thing is relatively recent considering the length of the clay origins run. It wasn't something, at least to my knowledge they've gone back and forth from over the years in some waning/wishy washy manner. I don't have a problem with the "daughter of" origin it plays well into it's respective stories and over all I think it's an easier explanation of her powers. But I prefer the clay origin because it's almost entirely unique in the larger scale of the hero mythos.
>>82456043
Other than that or in addition to that I like when they use the aspects of WW that made her unique and while characters abilities have changed and evolved over time across the board I do think WW slowly shifted into female Superman powerset, and I think that's a disservice to her. Just as a character that you might want to read about or gain interest in I think the more she stood out the better.
I think I prefer clay, can't fly, noticeably weaker than superman but still superhuman strength, hurt by bullets (because her blocking things with her wrists is cool), fulltime WW in the since she isn't really keeping a secret identity from anyone close to her(she lives as Diana goes shopping and dating and all that but WW is like a work title almost), lived hundreds of years on the island but is young and interacts with the outside world in a young way, Themyscira...why not both?
fuck that secret identity shit
im okay with her being the daughter of Zeus but i fond the clay backstory really sweet.
fuck the jet
who care about her age?
its magic
strong =/= invincible plus thats the point of her bracelets
>>82456043
My ideal version of Wonder Woman is a young dumb slut who's just trying to get a nut.
>>82458287
CASUAAAAAALLLLLLL REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
As much as a faggot that Linkara is, he made a fair point about how writers fuck her up in his Amazons Attack video.
Not sure his analysis on her being the "spirit of truth" is quite right either, but the critique is pretty accurate.
If I were interested in being a comic writer, I'd want to give WW a go just to try and bring some prestige to the character and build up a fan base again.
She needs to be super tall. Like 6"4' at the absolute shortest.
Let's see.
Take the origin of Cass Wonder girl and add it to Diana.
Make her a normal girl except she's exceptionally gifted in athletics and has a thing for history and peace and animals.
Bit of a tomboy but she cleans up really good.
Mother is a decendent of the amazons warriors and all of the women of her family are all exceptionally talented athletically and the curator of a museum.
Father is Zeus or Ares...maybe Ares for pottery's sake. So has a lot of strange aunts and uncles who visit her. Mother doesn't really know that he's a god and just assumes he's a bastard who she divorced for being a workaholic who rarely visited
Father occasionally visits and brings her little trinkets like the little crown he brought to his princess or the bracelets.
Aunt Athena would come and visit and take her horse riding and to places across the country and what not, Aunt Enyo would take her out joy riding and paintball gunning
When she turned 16 her father shows up and tells her the truth. Before he throws her into a litteral hell and tells her that if she's his daughter then she will prove herself and survive this.
Thus she overcomes a litteral hell through courage ingenuity and skill and defeats the minotaur WITHOUT killing him and earns the first of her mystical gifts. A thread from the golden fleece.
Childhood friend is steve who's probably the only other kid who could keep up with her or beat her in anything. Sometimes got into fights over things. Last fight was over a rabid dog that she found. It was getting sicker and then it bit her and she started getting sick and delirious.
Steve wanted to put it down and out of it's misery but she wanted to save it and wanted him to keep the bite a secret. He tried to shoot it but she punched him they fought over that. he kissed her which shocked her long enough to stop her and he knocked her out with a right hook.
He buried their dog where they first found it, she never forgave him.
Gods and Mortals is still the GOAT origin for Diana as far as I'm concerned. Only thing I'd change isHeracles and his men raping the Amazons before they leave for paradise island. I cringed pretty hard at that, it was unnecessary. I get that it makes for a pretty damn good reason not to trust men, but I don't want to see shit like that in a book about a woman with a magic lasso and cuffs
>>82458686
The thing about the magic lasso and cuffs is fully about BDSM.
Nothing about WW isn't about aberrant sex.
Rape is just there for the loser feminists to go from sexual liberation to the narrative of all men are evil and not to be trusted and the unstated LIPSTICK LESBIAN DOMINATRIX thing.
>>82458853
I'm not a feminist or anything, I just felt uncomfortable with it.
>>82458957
That may be. But that rape thing is there to sell the feminist ideal of her and also hint at the sexual nature of WW from back then through demonization.
They don't even realize that they accidentally push it into that dark place that bdsm is supposed to allow people to explore themes of domination and submission and the edge of sexuality without becoming monsters. A game.
WW is just a vestigial tail of a character that should just be cut off. Her entire thing is about softcore porn that pushes femdom and lezbian domininace under the guise of love everyone while she butchers everything mercilessly.
She's just an utter clusterfuck.
>>82456043
she is a statch
she is still hippolyta's daughter, because she raised her.
she's the daughter of some god (it doesnt really matter) because he brought the statch to life
also someone else sculpted it but that's just some less important person.
she can't fly, but she rides a pegasus. the pegasus is incredibly cute and at least three times as durable as a normal pegasus, even without its armor, which it also has, which is sold separately.
she's roughly half as strong as superman, basically decent level apokolyptian
sustained bullets could damage her but really they just fucking hurt
wears gauntlets, not just bracelets
her secret identity is the fanfiction she writes about Diana Prince, fun American girl who lives in America and has great adventures fitting in!
She speaks with a thick ancient greek accent and doesn't understand the modern world very well, but every so often something is brought up that our culture has kept from ancient times and she's actually more in tune with it than people who have been through the intervening european era
She's about 70, but there's no comparable culture or maturity on themyscira so it doesnt matter how old she is. Except she happens to be a comparable age to superman, who in this universe is old enough for his circus-strongman costume to make sense. the kents are still alive though because they adopted him as teenagers and everyone thought jonathan knocked martha up.
themyscira uses mostly magic but it has a few antikytherian-tier weirdass bits of old tech, plus like, about 30 percent of the level you'd expect of atlantis, just from that.. that whole thing
also she's basically xena and likes swords and cool armor
>>82459300
oh and her first contact with the outside world was still WW2-related in some way, and it got her training to be a great warrior instead of just a sit-around-and-clean-stuff-girl, which is the only other thing you can be on themyscira. because cmon someone has to do it. you cant literally have a society of all warriors
also she has a lasso but she uses it realistically as a weapon
also i guess it and her armor can be magic but they should have limits. and if theyre GONNA be magic you might as well go full sailormoon with it
>>82458592
>Mother is a decendant of the amazons warriors and all of the women of her family are all exceptionally talented athletically and the curator of a museum.
>Father is Zeus or Ares...maybe Ares for pottery's sake. So has a lot of strange aunts and uncles who visit her. Mother doesn't really know that he's a god and just assumes he's a bastard who she divorced for being a workaholic who rarely visited
>Father occasionally visits and brings her little trinkets like the little crown he brought to his princess or the bracelets.
>Aunt Athena would come and visit and take her horse riding and to places across the country and what not, Aunt Enyo would take her out joy riding and paintball gunning
>When she turned 16 her father shows up and tells her the truth. Before he throws her into a literal hell and tells her that if she's his daughter then she will prove herself and survive this.
>Thus she overcomes a literal hell through courage ingenuity and skill and defeats the Minotaur WITHOUT killing him and earns the first of her mystical gifts. A thread from the golden fleece.
Reminds me of this, minus the mandatory summer camp.
>>82459428
Did I accidentally describe the premise of a book or something?
Give me molded from clay, can't fly, can be hurt by bullets, has a secret identity, is young, and from a Themyscira with technology.
>>82456043
>Clay origin
>Can fly
>Hurt by bullets and other sharp objects, but resistant to blunt force such as punches
>Rivals superman in ability, but categorically weaker.
>Few hundred years old
>Themyscira is not tech advanced, rather watched over by Gods. Presented much like an advanced roman style.
>>82459579
No, your thing was better. Those Percy Jackson books are just rehashes of classic greek myths. Yours didn't do anything close to that other than the Minotaur bit.
>>82459827
Really? Huh, and the only reason I threw the minotaur in there was so that it would be reminiscent of that greek stuff. You know the old grecian bastard child of a god going through trials thing.
She's supposed to be a demigoddess who attained near superman level power by earning it and proving herself as a heroine by overcoming daring trials.
Her having these abilities from birth actually makes her kinda broken and indirectly says that the entire amazon race is just as strong as superman. Meaning that there is no reason that the amazons shouldn't have taken the world over yet.
The amazon background is quasi iconic but it's still awful, and her being chick superman is boring and makes her most iconic thing, the bracelets stupid and utterly pointless.
>>82459579
>>82459827
>>82460135
I meant the overall tone was similar, not that the two were exactly the same. Both combine Greek mythology with the modern world in a similar way.
>>82456043
I used to be all for the clay origin, but nowadays I reread a lot of the TPB origin collections and she always gets bullied pretty hard.
Yeah, the god-daddy thing might be strange, but at least it's a bit of a relief not being some weird golem that mommy made because her biological clock was ringing.
>>82458592
All the other things are fine, but I really like the last line of your concept.
Diana hating Steve for what her head tells her was the right thing but her heart TEARING HER APART is a nice move.
>>82460289
Oh, well I have seen some of one of the percy jacksons movies..they were fairly awful. But I always liked the concept of it and how it would work. Espescially if some of the challenges that they hero/heroine would have to overcome were more modern as well.
>>82460430
Thanks. I thought that it would be nice to truly define her by her need for peace and love and flying off of the handle to attain those things at great cost to herself.
Her fight with steve was to illustrate how she would deal with others when it comes to her ideals, her true personal weakness and gives her a future beau who would watch her back.
nigga fuck off with this origin story circle jerk
That's all anyone has done for every character for like 15 year now.
It don't matter. Its just gonna get rehashed 6 months later when the next creative team wants to start from scratch because they're shit .
Wonder Woman's villains suck. Name ten good ones. You can't.
>>82458475
Amazons Attack is fucking old and anything it did to the brand was washed away with N52(which is also old now, calling anything "New" is a bad idea)
>>82461824
Psycho Pirate, Cheetah, Saturno, Ares, Paula von Gunther, Veronica Cale, Egg Fu, Giganta, Silver Swan, Mayfly.
>>82461824
Same applies to just about every other hero except Batman. Can you name 10 good Flash Villains? Does Aquaman even have 5?
>>82462024
>Psycho Pirate
What? You mean Doctor Psycho, right? >Cheetah
Stupid overused furry.
>Paula von Gunther
If she's so good why hasn't she been seen in years and years?
>Veronica Cale
This is proof that Wonder Woman's rogues suck. Veronica was made to be Wonder Woman's Luthor because she didn't have any worthwhile enemies so just fight a Lex Luthor clone instead.
>Egg Fu
He was only entertaining in the weekly comic series, never in a Wonder Woman story.
>Giganta
Such a shitty and uninteresting character that Super Friends had change everything about the character and give her giant powers.
Remember DC Online? How Wonder Woman's story involved Oblivion Bar and fighting Trigon because her own shit is too boring and stupid to use? Just admit that everything about this character is shit.
>>82462067
>Can you name 10 good Flash Villains?
Flash has wonderful villains and they're getting a lot of love in his new show. Gorilla Grodd, Reverse Flash, Captain Cold, Heat Wave, Trickster, Weather Wizard, Shade, Abra Kadabra, Captain Boomerang.
>Does Aquaman even have 5?
Black Manta, Ocean Master, The Trench, Giant-born, Dead King.
The Wonder Woman origin story that Stan Lee wrote is best.
>>82461824
Ares
Medusa/Gorgon Sisters
Circe
Giganta
First Born
Barbara Minerva (when written well)
Doctor Psycho
Silver Swan
Cassandra (New 52, Lennox's sister)
Strife (she's more of a Loki figure though)
Hades was a good antagonist too.
>>82462291
>The trench
>Abra Kadabra
Really?
>Captain Boomerang
Too bad Suicide Squad took him
>>82462067
Flash was probably your worst choice for an example.
>>82462470
Abra Kadabra, despite the name, is an awesome villain who's been core to multiple flash arcs. Go read the Dark Flash Saga.
Flash's best villains are rhe Rogues, too bad the WB will never do them justice in the movie and the CW hasn't even officially formed the Rogues and Snart and Heatwave already got more character development on LoT than they ever did as Flash villains.
Hellbeven Hartley is a goodnguy now and didn’t have much time as a villain.
>>82462470
I'll allow you to insult Abra. But The Trench are awesome. By insulting them you're cruisin' for a bruisin'
>>82462540
>Generic Horde Monsters
>>82462441
>First Born
>>82462540
Trench are canon fodder ala Badoon and Chitauri except with a creepy factor but once it wore off they were shit.
Maybe James Wan will do something good with them in the movie if they are there.
>>82462589
Time we settle this. Post your address and I'll come right over.
>>82462595
Go bake your cake
>>82462617
742 Evergreen Terrace, Springfield, Massachusetts, 0110, USA.
>>82462291
>>82462475
Yeah I don't read or follow Flash, but honestly I was not expecting the Gorilla and both Captains to be serious contenders. Are those really his A lister rogues?
>>82462692
>Are those really his A lister rogues?
Yes. Especially Grodd. He's A+
>>82462692
Captain Cold is awesome. Captain Boomerang has his moments, though he's better in Suicide Squad than Flash.
The Gorilla is your generic super intelligent enemy ala Luthor, but he also has super strength and telepathy.
>>82456043
>Origin
Daughter of Hippolyta, you can mix mythic legacy stuff in there if you want.
>Flight
I like the Invisible Jet, because it's cool and stupid. Also feel like giving her flight just makes her suckier Superman. Make her leap super good.
>Strength
Is a few notches below Superman, say around Aquaman level. But makes up for it in skill and versatility rather than just being a flying brick.
>Durability
Vulnerable to heavy arms, cause I like her reflecting shit with the bracers. Mostly invulnerable, but still needs to block bullets and swords and whatnot because shit hurts.
>Secret Identity
I don't mind the idea of her being Diana Prince while walking around casually, but the thought of her putting on a Clark Kent persona and getting an apartment and shit is kinda dumb, but could be fun if handled properly.
>Age
Make it so Amazons just age slower than people, same as Kryptonians (and maybe Atlanteans?), so she's a young-ish adult in human years despite being around for a long-ass time.
>Themyscira
Magic is the only way. Let Atlantis be the lost city with all the rad technology. You can give them shit like force fields or medicine or something that's like advanced technology born from magic, but I don't want a Themyscria with air conditioning and electric lights.
Honestly, playing up her origin as a Pandora-like thing would be cool, since Pandora was crafted from clay by the gods and given to mankind as a gift originally, but then the story got twisted to it being a punishment.
So she is made out of clay by Zeus and then given gifts from the other gods, thus ending up with magical superpowers. She's originally meant as a gift to humans, but after the ancient Greeks basically told the gods to fuck off the gods took her back and wiped her mind, reformatting her to be a weapon against mankind as a punishment for its poor behaviour.
Of course, after several missions (which are implied to be some of the great catastrophes that we know of, such as the razing of the Library of Alexandria etc etc) her original "programming" starts to re-emerge, and she has this conflicting issue of "gift to help humanity" vs "weapon to punish humanity for its crimes" and the gods are forced to deactivate her until they can sort out how to resolve this issue, and She's then given to the Amazons of Themyscira to guard over her during her slumber, because Themyscira is the only place in the world that remained faithful to the Greek gods.
Hippolyta comes to love this eternal sleeping beauty that her warriors watch over, treating her like the child she never had. And then something happens. Maybe some Frozen-style "mother's love", maybe the gods figure something out, maybe it's Steve landing on the island and inadvertently activating her sentinel program and forcefully awakening her, whatever, I haven't figured that bit out yet.
Anyway, the event basically merges the two conflicting aspects of Diana into one, and she becomes a whole, functioning person, with a mind greater than the sum of its two parts that the gods can no longer control, with her own sentience and soul. And so she has this overwhelming love for humanity, but it's tempered by this desire to see mankind made right by her hand, and to punish those who commit crimes.
Never remove this from Wonder Woman. I want to see Gal Gadot in a space suit.
>>82462067
>Can you name 10 good Flash Villains?
Nigga, Flash has the best rogues gallery.
>Captain Cold
>Heatwave
>Mirror Master
>Grodd
>Captain Boomerang
>Pied Piper
>Reverse Flash
>Top
>Weather Wizard
>Savitar
Bump for clusterfuck origins.
