Is the Morrison run worth reading, or should I just skip it?
Also X-Men thread I guess.
>>82439424
just wait 3 months, some anon is storytiming ALL x-men and x-men spinoffs everyday, in 3 months we will get to the 2000 era of x-men
Morrison's run (along with the concurrently running X-Force/X-Statix by Milligan & Allred) is actually some of the ONLY X-shit worth reading.
>>82439424
Skip.
>>82439424
>run worth reading
Yes.
>>82439529
>not muh Magneto
>>82439594
did marvel ever clarify wtf Xorn was?
>>82440039
Morrison did. Marvel ruined the character.
>>82440039
Xorn makes perfect sense in Morrison's run. It's pretty easy to ignore how editors fucked it all up now that time has passed and it doesn't matter anymore.
Same with Countdown and Final Crisis.
>>82440146
yes of course, in the run Xorn was pretty much NANOMACHINESSON but after marvel tried to make him a real character it became a clusterfuck
>>82439512
4/10 got me to reply
>>82440192
and by nanomachines son I mean his "healing powers"
>>82439424
skip
Give it a shot, reception is still mixed even over ten years later. I think it's flawed because it lacks the reconstruction period he was able to give his Batman run which went through similar beats.
>>82440039
Yes, a mutant who went crazy and thought he was Magneto.
>>82440192
I don't think you know what character we're talking about
>>82440324
yes Magneto, who used "nanosentinels" to heal and pass it as faux healing powers... then marvel tried to make Magneto an Schizo fuck in which his other personality was Xorn
>>82439424
It's definitely worth reading. Not only is it a great run on its own (it's far from perfect and some people might have issues with the characterisation of certain characters, but overall it's still great), but it also sets up a lot of things for the runs that follow it, most notably Whedon's Astonishing (which is also good).
>>82440398
What is the problem? The nanosentinals were set up from pretty much the first page and were a subtle recurring subplot through the entire run and Magneto's control over them was well explained. You're making it sound like some crazy asspull and not a well developed story that was carefully plotted for close to 40 issues.
>>82439424
I thought it was pretty good. Gets props just for actually showing Wolverine doing what he's best at. Just about every other writer/artist tends to shy away from that unless there's robots involved.
>>82440453
I think I worded the post wrong, I actually liked how he used the sentinels and the first time reading the run I was geniunly surprised they used them in that way
What I don't like is Marvel's subsequent convoluted explanation to revive Magneto (who would've come back sooner or later)
>>82440533
Morrison deliberately tried to poison Magneto's brand, they had to say that wasn't him.
>>82440627
>deliberately tried to poison Magneto's brand
>he made a known terrorist and murderer commit murder and terrorism, now the character is ruined forever!
>>82440627
and for that, fuck morrison forever
>>82440664
do I have to choke the bitch?
>>82440684
Suicide is not the answer, Anon.
>>82440664
This is why morrison sucks big time. He tried to destroy the x-men (and he succeeded, as we got house of m because of him), and he attracted morrisonfags who never cared about the x-men to piss in our cereals.
I wish morrison had never written x-men
>>82440664
It's all fun and games until you start literally herding people into ovens.
>>82440627
>>82440684
Morrison was right. Magento was a "tragic anti-hero" for two fucking decades. After a while it just doesn't make sense anymore. Morrison gave the X-Men a villain.
>>82440702
morrisonfags are the equivalent of toolfags.
you're both have plebeian taste, but you think you're so superior to anyone else
>>82440714
>blaming Morrison for Bendis' shit
The hateboner /co/ has for Morrison never stops being funny.
>>82440741
The X-Men have villains. Morrison's run was so bad that it had to be retconed for years. Name one cool thing that Morrison added to X-Men?
>>82440741
A villain that he never wanted them to use again. Morrison has more respect for the Joker of all villains.
>>82440762
House of M was an editorial mandate.
Nice try morrisonfag
>>82440714
>>82440627
The only real fuckup here is trying to turn a murderous, racist mutant supremacist into a heroic character.
>>82440803
The only real fuckup is to not read comics, but pretend otherwise
>>82440664
The thing was that beforehand Magneto always reacted to perceived threats. As far as I know, and correct me if I am wrong, but Post-Claremont, he never attacked anything that didn't directly involve mutants either be oppressed or threatening him directly. Ultimately he was a hypocritical terrorist and murderer, but he was still sympathetic.
Xorn did strike in a completely and utterly unjustifiable. I mean, he had no reason to do any of the insanely cruel crap he did. I mean jetting Wolverine and Jean into the sun was something that Claremont Mags wouldn't do. He'd ask them to join him and when they refused, just capture them and leave them be. The worst he would do is kill them in a quick and completely painless manner.
Now as Marvel is now run by its fans, a few of them wanted to turn back the clock and undo what Morrison did. For better or worse.
>>82440803
And yet that's what he's been for the past decade and Cyclops became more like him.
>>82440777
Can't argue with such trips.
>>82440777
Good writing. Fantomex.
>>82440827
>get BTFO
>can't think of any arguments
>w-wel you don't read c-comics so I have the moral h-high ground!
>>82440863
>Good writing
it's debatable
>Fantomex
okay, so you're baiting now?
>>82440885
Millar pls
>>82440627
Morrison gave closure to Magneto, he pretty much went insane with rage for humans after the genocide on Genosha, that's why he fucking rounded people into ovens... althought he would've come back from the dead sooner or later, Mags's death was a good closing to his character.
It would've been better if he came back, everyone saw a genocidal jew version of Hitler and either he tries to make amends or just says fuck it prepare the gas chambers for the inferiors once again
>>82440882
read this>>82440832
also, even during Kirby/Lee era, Magneto wasn't as homicidal as under Morrison. Then again, there is a reason why Magneto got crazy, it's not that you know, because you don't read comics. And the fact that even at his lowest, Magneto wasn't such a pathetic loser fucktard as under morrison speaks volumes
Even morrison admitted that he shat all over Magneto. What is even your argument?
Jubilee in All-New Wolverine when?
>>82440931
>I loved Whedon's run: the thread
>>82440907
Ask people and x-fags how many of them like fantomex. Don't say that I didn't warn you. Of all things, you chose Fantomex as an argument. You couldn't fail more, even if you wanted too.
>>82440918
Humans had nothing to do with Genosha, that was all Cassandra Nova.
>>82440714
Bendis was the one who destroyed the x-men and made them the lifeless shells we have today and it all started with his schism bullshit, the books from Decimation to Second coming were geniunly good
>>82440950
There was Magneto in Whedon's run? Didn't notice.
Casual.
>>82440976
He helped briefly during the "Xavier has ANOTHER dark secret" arc though off-screen.
>>82440777
Fantomex, expanded on the Weapon plus program, finally fucking broke up Scott and Jean and also good writing
>>82440963
Bendis wrote House of M, ANXM and UXM, none of this was his idea, though. The yesterday x-men was Alonso's idea, and decimation was Quesada's idea. He just wanted to write them.
>>82440999
>finally fucking broke up Scott and Jean
Editorial wanted them to get divorce. Morrison went ROCK FALLS, JEAN DIES.
>>82440999
>>82441000
meme magic
>>82440999
I realize that it easy to spot a morrisonfag, as only morrisonfags like fantomex
>>82440957
and Magneto probably gave two shits, since Cassandra nova was dead and he was out for blood
>>82440777
>Name one cool thing that Morrison added to X-Men?
>not treating Claremont years like a holy sacred text
>Xavier Institute is actually a school
>Cassandra Nova
>mutants are freaks that are hated by the public for a reason
>jealous humans stealing mutant powers
>Emma Frost face turn
>Scott and Emma
>breaking up Jean and Scott
>secondary mutations
>Stepford Cuckoos
>Quentin Quire
>fixing the Jean / Phoenix dynamic
>clearing the deck by destroying Genosha
>"Magento was Right"
>Beak and Angel
>fixing the Weapon Plus program, tying it to Captain America
>Sublime and the dystopia finale
>>82441046
I think Xorn knew full well that they had locked Nova into the body that alien blob thing where she would be re-educated into a good person. What he didn't know is that that blob morphed into Ernst.
>>82441046
The thing, it's not why he destroyed new york. He just did it, because he hated X-Men. Also, thanks for reminding me that Morrison destroyed Magneto as a president of Genosha. Much better concept and an idea. As a matter of fact, Morrison ruined Genosha as a concept
>>82441042
I didn't even liked Fantomex on Morrison's run, I like him from Uncanny X-force
>>82441061
>>Xavier Institute is actually a school
my nigger
>>82441084
> Morrison ruined Genosha as a concept
I loved Morrison's run but you are right
>>82441061
>>82441093
Weird because this is actually from the Singer movie. Morrison seemed more interested in taking the first X-Men movie further than anything in the comics history.
>>82441084
He took away Genosha and gave us mutant subculture (which Marvel took away with M-Day and replaced with nothing).
>>82441126
Yeah, it was a great move on Singer's part and Morrison was smart to bring it into continuity.
>>82441061
>not treating Claremont years like a holy sacred text
never implied it anywhere.
>Xavier Institute is actually a school
yeah, more wallpaper
>Cassandra Nova
muh evil sibling twin. female Onslaught
>mutants are freaks that are hated by the public for a reason
>implying there wasn't a reason before
>jealous humans stealing mutant powers
in the most edgy way possible
>Emma Frost face turn
>what is Generation X
>Scott and Emma
not anymore
>breaking up Jean and Scott
cough. not anymore
>secondary mutations
another convolution to the already convoluted mythos
>Stepford Cuckoos
more like Cucks
>Quentin Quire
you serious? the most annyoing punchable character of the decade?
>fixing the Jean / Phoenix dynamic
there was nothing to fix.
>clearing the deck by destroying Genosha
yay, thanks for ruining Genosha
>"Magneto was Right"
yay, memes
>Beak and Angel
depowered and they don't appear in books
>fixing the Weapon Plus program, tying it to Captain America
yay, because that's what both Wolverine and Captain America needed. Everything is magically connected
>Sublime and the dystopia finale
ugh. don't remind me. cheap, unreadable DOFP knock-off
>>82441129
in other words. we lost two concepts for the price of one
>>82441144
>more like Cucks
stopped reading there
I really wish Marvel had taken advantage of Secret Wars to undo M-Day, but we all know they're trying to bury the X-Men now
>>82440953
>>82441042
>everyone hates what I hate
Nice solipsism, bro.
>>82441206
Good. Because you missed the best parts
>>82440195
but he's right. if you just read Morrison's new x-men you'd be set for x-men. im not even a Morrisonfag, much like busiek/perez is the only avengers run you need to read or brubaker cap is the only captain America you need to read.
>>82441209
They undid M-day, it's just that they needed to prop inhumans.
>>82441211
Seriously dude. It makes me laugh, because being an x-fag, and talking with x-fags, I know that fantomex is rather... disliked. He had a max mini, and it sold like 4k, I shit you not. I don't really understand the hate towards him, but he isn't popular among the fandom, quite the opposite.
>>82441230
People like you are cancer.
What about Thomas' run? Stern's? Shooter's? Englehart's? Same with Captain A, what about Gruenwald's? Kirby's run? Fuck you with a stickpole.
>>82441236
>I'm a Real X Fan!
You need a life.
>>82441271
I have the best life I would ever want
>also being a morrisonfag
yeah, maybe it's you who needs a life?
>>82441144
You really need to fuck off back to /b/
We're here to discuss comics.
>>82441281
>I have the best life I would ever want
I don't believe you.
>>82441281
>I have the best life I would ever want
He said, angrily posting in a 4chan board...
>>82441291
1/10
made me reply
it's hilarious how casual you are
>>82441230
>much like busiek/perez is the only avengers run you need to read or brubaker cap is the only captain America you need to read.
>/co/
>>82441308
WHERE THERE'S A WHIP
>>82441299
>>82441303
your tears are delicious. how does it feel to be the most pathetic circlejerk?
>>82440627
>>82440684
>>82440714
>>82440753
>>82440777
>>82440802
>>82441144
>>82441256
people like you are cancer. someone doesn't need to buy a million dollars of comics to get a definitive vision of a character. you don't need to autisticly catalogue 60 years of comics. read brus run and move on with your life. go read something else.
>>82441350
He mad.
>>82441341
Yeah, because you need to spend money to read comics. Because being knowledgeable is cancer. It's better to be ignorant, like you and join the hivemind of casuals
>>82441350
>>82441378
morrison sucks. now fight me
It's the most recent run that tried to make the X-men evolve into something new and wonderful, but then it was retconned and ignored and the franchise was once again stuck in stagnant water.
>>82441404
When and where?
>>82441417
Here and now
Can we all stop responding to that one shit head that keeps baiting?
>>82441416
Now when I think about it, I feel like Morrison's run is when the meme "why marvel citizens hate mutants, but are okay with superheroes" started
>>82441430
*teleports behind you*
*slices you in two with katana*
*tips respectfully*
psssh... nothin' personnel, kid
>>82440627
Morrison gave them an easy out with Sublime! All they had to do was say that Mags addiction to Kick was behind all his actions as Xorn. Literally all they had to do.
Fucking X-Office idiots and their Xorn pretending to be Magneto pretending to be Xorn bullshit.
>>82441432
>one
that's some a-tier insecurity
How long is Morrison'srun?
>>82441432
The millarfag? I think he left.
>>82441450
*unzips dick*
>>82441479
but I don't even like millar
Didn't the drugs magneto use contain the sentient bacteria known as sublime? Wasn't that what made him go crazy because it'd make people more mutant phobic and help sublime wipe them out?
>>82441475
20incheslong.
>>82441475
Like 40ish issues
>>82441489
The problem is, why sublime hated mutants in the first place?
>>82441512
yadda yadda evolution yadda yadda threatened their dominion over all.
>>82439424
It's hit or miss. I really love most* of the ideas in the run, love 'em or hate 'en, they were a breath of fresh air the X-Men terribly needed, but I felt the execution of the run so terribly lacking. Quitely at his worst, didn't help either.
Read it. The least you can end up with, is something to rage about :)
*What I hated most: Sublime. Turning the X-Men's greatest enemy, the humanity fears against mutants, into either something any marvel-scientist can whip up a vaccine against, or is so fundamental to live that you can never beat it, (without wiping out all non-mutant live on earth), was somewhat less than brilliant, IMHO.
>>82441488
You should, your taste is crap enough.
>>82441512
That's like asking why cancer hates your grandmother
>>82441535
I like Sakai, Mignola, Kirby, Starlin, Englehart, Byrne, Miles, Wagner, Manara, Hastings, O'Neill, Ostrander, Robinson, among others. I think my taste is fine, thank you.
Pic related: the curse of a Morrison monthly book
WARNING: NSFW / NSFL
>>82441575
the mother of all nightmare fuels
>>82441547
it doesn't make sense why would sublime hate mutants, and not moloids
>>82441532
Yeah Sublime was the weak point even if it was such a big part of his run.
>>82441573
All shit.
>>82441532
The thing is, everyone forgets about Shadow King.
Just like Immortus messes with Avengers, Shadow King is behind everything bad that happens to the X-Men.
>>82441613
Thanks for confirming to be a casual. I expected nothing less from morrisonfag
Cat Beast was cool.
>>82441573
God bless Wikipedia huh?
>>82441532
So what, humanity is doomed to be dicks to mutants specifically forever just because?
You do know there are IRL parasites that can warp the behaviour of organisms they attach to, right?
>>82441731
>implying you know even quarter of them
I can go on, Baron, Spurrier, Dave fucking Sim, Dixon, Bouchet, Giffen, Alan Grant...
I have yet to see what your fave list is
>>82441748
Not just because. Would you want to have a neigbour who would see every time you fap. Implying that your school bully is a minor telepath and can read your deepest secrets.
Or implying columbine, but with mutant powers.
Imagine, how scarier the world would be, if someone somewhere would get deathly powers out of nowhere.
>>82441766
>Baron, Dave fucking Sim, Dixon
Oh, a republicunt. Now I know why you hate Morrison.
>>82439424
It's pretty good. Suffers from all Morrison's usual problems, like many characters not having voices of their own or simply being wildly mischaracterized, and the pacing becomes extremely rushed toward the end, but it's not a bad run.
It also makes massive changes to the X-Men status quo and overall mythology. Some good, some bad. I'd say his changes to the status quo of the characters were all very good, but he kinda fucked the overall X-Men mythos in a way that it has yet to fully recover from, and probably never will.
>>82441850
lol, nice cherrypicking. do you even read comics?
>>82441512
Some mutants were immune to it, so it wanted them all gone.
>>82441887
I read Morrison comics, just like you.
>>82441885
>but he kinda fucked the overall X-Men mythos in a way that it has yet to fully recover from, and probably never will.
In what way? The genocide happiness consequent writers have had after he burned down genosha? and how they go through extinction level events every week?
>>82441850
>>82441887
oh my god both you shut the fuck up for christ's sake.
>>82441899
Pretty radical
>>82441900
beside X-Men, I only read Doom Patrol and Animal Man from morrison. I'm not really interested in him.
>>82441924
Letting Emma onto the team. Where she'd stay for more than a decade.
>>82441967
That was a bad choice?
>>82441900
And that's it? Nothing else, but Morrison, 24/7, all year, all the time?
>>82441982
If you're fan of Jott, yeah.
>>82441952
>hates Morrison
>reads his comics
Lucky that you hate him, cheil.
>>82441988
Hey, if it's good it's good. Does that offend you or something?
>>82441982
She's an annoying counterproductive bitch and a bad influence on absolutely everybody who they keep shoving into stories.
>>82442027
The question is, do you read anything beside Morrison, or only Morrison?
>>82442027
>can't answer the question
>lectures others,
you showed them pal
>>82442047
Why? Are you giving True Comic Fan medals? Heh heh heh.
>>82440434
>some people might have issues with the characterisation of certain characters
On a Morrison book? Say it ain't so.
>>82442065
Thank you, millarfag. It's good fun.
>>82442068
Are you afraid of a simple question?
>>82441575
WHAT THE CHRIST
>>82442097
>more buzzwords
I didn't know that morrisonfags were such a cancer. I never read Millar, but I'm going to be his biggest fan in the world
>>82442099
dubs say yes. notice how he can't reply with anything other than passive aggressive butthurt
>>82442099
>>82442139
If being a True Comic Fan means hating writers I like, I respectfully reject this medal.
>>82442120
>I never read Millar, but I'm going to be his biggest fan in the world
Just as planned.
Disgusting artwork, but a good read.
>>82442153
What medal? Jesus christ, do you even have a touch with reality?
>>82442181
>reality
You called?
>>82442205
Now I'm flabbergasted
>>82439424
it's the definitive post-Claremont X-Men run. i check out a book or two from time to time and nothing has compelled me to return to the X-mythos after reading Morrison's run. like all extended runs, it has its ups and downs, but overall the sheer amount of concepts - some intelligent, some cool, some silly, some imbecilic - is reason enough to give it a go. my favorite issues are the Riot in Xavier, the Cassandra Nova arc, the Xorn standalone issue, and the closing arc set in the future.
>>82442212
It happens.
>>82441924
>>82441967
Original guy making the statement he fucked the mythos here. Emma has nothing to do with it. She was one of the few characters he wrote really well and she's been a riot in subsequent X-stuff.
Morrison was the first person to really make the X-Men seem almost unnecessary, by introducing the idea that most mutants get shitty, even debilitating mutations. Prior to him, the hate against mutants was about fear and - this is a big thing - envy. Being special was portrayed as a power, something positive, that other people hated because they were small-minded or envious. While 'joke mutants' have appeared, usually in non X-Men books, pretty much all disfigured mutants before Morrison were the result of other factors. Blob was always a fatass. Cyclops hit his head hard. Morlocks were intentionally disfigured to keep them in the sewers.
Morrison popularized the 'downer' mutant, the gal born as a fat monstrous caterpillar, or with no power save three faces, or with fragile bones and lots of skin condition-looking shit. This hurt the X-Men mythos hugely, because it basically created a situation where, as a reader, you look at this stuff, and think:
1. The X-Men, with their supermodel features, now look like total asssholes.
2. Mutation is no longer a fundamentally positive thing warped by people's perceptions. It actually IS a blight. It definitely no longer looks like the next evolutionary 'step' (which is super soft science anyway, but, eh, comics) for mankind.
3. Why the fuck is curing these people a bad thing now? Why would you not want the mutant gene eliminated? Morrison turned this shit into a disease more likely to turn you into a deformed wreck than give you superpowers.
So yeah, he really fucked shit up.
>>82442153
>le Millar is bad meme
Not everything he's done is good but he's put out some great books.
>>82441748
IRL doesn't matter. What matters is: Can someone make a decent story out of it? And considering Morrions' "going meta" in this run, about how the stories of the X-Men run to much in seemingly circles: Can someone make a story out of it, that doesn't repeat forever? I can only think of two scenarios: It would be either A) find a vaccine and finally begin to make lasting friendships with humanity or B) wipe all Sublime-Infected liveforms out. Which would be kinda like a little more convuluted X-Men #1 Volume #1. Xavier's vs. Magneto's Vision. Again. This time with a "real" endgame in sight.
>>82442298
This is a very valid point. When AvX happened there were a lot of discussions, where people asked "why would you want to be a mutant anyway?" or jokes like "now I'm a living green mud, thanks cyclops", etc.
Where is she getting her blood from post secret wars?
>>82442355
>he liked Nemesis and The Unfunnies
>>82440777
Emma and Scott.
Kickass uniforms.
>>82442442
I liked Scemma, but uniforms? The one inspired b the movie, and the same that people complain now over and over?
>>82442422
Millar's Superman books are perfectly fine.
>>82442422
>he didn't like Starlight or Huck
>>82442489
>>82442507
After reading his Ultimates I blacklisted him forever, so I won't take the bait.
>>82442120
>I didn't know that morrisonfags were such a cancer.
They really are the worst fanbase in comics. I like some of Morrison's stuff, but I hate his fans with a passion.
>>82441341
>Morrison
>Definitive X-Men
So you've never read any X-Men. Good to know.
>>82442239
>it's the definitive post-Claremont X-Men run.
>definitive
How to spot a Morrisonfag
>>82442534
I actually wonder whether it's millarfags pretending to be morrisonfags pretending to be millarfags.
You know, like xorn pretending to be magneto pretending to be xorn
>>82442298
to be honest, i see nothing wrong with any of what you pointed out. Morrison expanded the in-comic definition of Mutants and this has or should have led to more socially relevant stories. you see, people will still envy and fear Mutants, and, at times, also relate to them. i find no fault with changing the idea of Mutants and fundamentally positive to a more expansive spectrum.
>>82442559
But anon, Morrison writes only definitive versions. Rucka can pack and go home now that Morrison wrote WW story.
>>82442519
Superman Adventures was a kids' comic, he couldn't be edgy.
A little offtopic, but I would kill for a vertigo-styled X-book. X-statix is the closest we got.
>>82442507
>Starlight
Cheap, mindless Liam Neeson-esque wank. How old are you that this "my kids don't appreciate me" wish fulfilment tripe actually delighted you?
>Huck
Rip-off of Wolverine: Origins
>>82442588
Luthor and Mercy looks here like Pinky and The Brain
>>82442585
This made me laugh much more than I think it should
>>82440777
I loved the U-Men (Super-Wannabes that harvest mutants for organs. Creepy fucks), Xavier's becoming a "real" School, and even if introduced wayyyy to fast mutants forming an actual sub-culture (Mutants seperating themselves from humanity and building their own society? See that's something to actually fear!). Weapon Plus was a nice idea, though I felt he shat over Captain America with that.
But yeah, that's mostly been written out, retconned and/or ignored.
>>82442370
>Can someone make a story out of it, that doesn't repeat forever?
Doesn't stop X-Men writers from recycling the same villains forever. Apocalypse is on his what? 7th posse of Horsemen? Magneto still racist? Mystique still a bitch?
>>82442624
That's sadly the nature of corporate comics
>>82442624
>Doesn't stop X-Men writers from recycling the same villains forever.
Be honest, would you bother to write anything good if you knew there's bunch of people waiting to buy whatever book contains their favorite character?
>>82442622
Speaking of which, when was the last time we've seen u-men in 616? This concept could still be redeemed.
>>82442534
>>82442559
>>82442566
I guess your brain couldn't stand the effort of reading an unconventional writer...
>>82442609
Rucka's WW sucked.
>>82442622
E for Extinction was pretty fun.
>>82442653
The problem is a little deeper. Marvel comics don't sell as good as they used to be, but they are still an easy cheque. Despite that, you still have people who actually want to write something good. It's just that readership is shrinking. At least in usa
>>82442679
>hurr durr your just too stupid to understand it hurr durr
Every goddamned time
>>82442679
You know who was unconventional?
Eisner. Kurtzman. Aragones. For their time of course, but they really pushed the medium forward.
From modern writers - Allred, Hernandez bros, Gaiman and Moore (yup) comes quickly to my mind
>>82442681
Genociding muties is always fun
>>82442736
And Steranko. Never forget about Steranko.
He was a master storyteller and artist
>>82442580
The problem is that it redefines the X-Men as, instead of altruistic heroes helping people facing unwarranted discrimination, hypocritical assholes trying to defend people with a legit disease from being cured.
This is why so many people dislike the X-Men these days. The idea that only one in so many mutants gets a mutation that's not a severe disfigurement or imposition on their life shifts the nature of the conflict. It becomes - or it looks like - a bunch of lucky cunts trying to hold on to their power at the expense of the many.
Frankly, people already related to mutants. People relate to the experience of being hated for something that is, in reality, not a bad thing. People with certain disorders or living in social situations where they feel almost untouchable relate to characters like Rogue, because, while her power hinders her, it's also something amazing she can use to save lives. Nobody relates to cancerous caterpillar girl. Nobody with a bone marrow disorder would support the X-Men's decision to stop someone like Beak from being cured. If there was a cure for them, they'd want that shit.
It allows the same stories as before, but it closes off others. Or it should, anyway, because certain stories now paint the X-Men as arrogant tools rather than what they're actually meant to be.
>>82442690
>Despite that, you still have people who actually want to write something good
And they'll either get fucked by editorial or use their ideas on stuff they own.
>>82442750
>And Steranko. Never forget about Steranko.
>He was a master storyteller and artist
He'll be doing variants for Cap.
>>82442460
>implying that uniform wasn't cool as fuck
Yes, yes, I know the pic isn't from Morrison's run. Whatever. It looks great.
>>82442798
It's true. Editorial is a cancer. They tend to rewrite the comics without writers even knowing about it.
>He'll be doing variants for Cap.
Pacha approves.jpg
>>82442815
>the X-Men will never look that good again
>>82442815
Tell it to all the people in the threads about movies, who want the classic comic book uniforms.
Personally, I don't mind these costumes, but it's really exhausting to go to Apocalypse thread and constantly see
>ugh. black leather uniforms
>>82442298
>>82442754
>Morrison was the first person to really make the X-Men seem almost unnecessary, by introducing the idea that most mutants get shitty, even debilitating mutations
What's wrong with that?
Does it damage your ability to self-insert? That what makes you different doesn't necessarily turn you into a hunky adonis or bodacious venus who is just being oppressed by the petty ugly "normal" people?
The fuck?
And fuck you! Beak was awesome!
And mutants aren't the next step in evolution or some super special snowflake condition. It's the result of careless, apathetic Celestial lab rat fuckery. It's not inherently "positive." It's always been a lottery rigged by a bunch of amoral space giants. Remember Ultimate Origins where it was revealed that Ultimate Universe mutants were just the byproduct of super soldier serum research? Same damn thing but cosmic!
>>82442852
>It's true. Editorial is a cancer. They tend to rewrite the comics without writers even knowing about it.
Dunno what's worse, shitty editorial or writers going "not muh!" and destroying everything in name of their OTP.
>>82442918
Well because mutants are feared because they are literally better than humans. They are called homo superior and that is Apocalypse's entire premise for conquering the earth.
>>82442931
I pick both
>>82441061
>>Quentin Quire
And like that you have lost me. There is nothing good about Quire. Seriously what the fuck was Aaron thinking when he used this fucking piece of waste?
He's an allegory for a school shooter for fuck's sake. There is nothing there to save. During Aaron's run, he is like a third wave fucking feminist or the mutant world. And before you say /co/mblr, think about it.
>Guy talks about how he has been oppressed and how he will rise up against the masses.
>Has not suffered the insane bullshit that the New X-Men did.
>Hasn't woken up for the past year or so, wondering who is going to die next.
>Has a high opinion of his abilities despite the fact there are people in his generation like Surge, Elixir, X-23 and Hellion who can literally beat him in a manner of seconds.
Now, if Aaron had actually been a decent fucking writer on his run of X-Men, Quire would have been Xorn-Magneto type figure. He would have been the pile of shit who mocked the kids who returned from Utopia, claiming that they were weak.
I mean think how perfect that would have been. You would actually feel like you are watching a new generation of X-Men and Magnetos being born into the new world.
But instead we got fucking Quentin Quire's wacky adventures with a bunch of characters we could not give a shit about. Meanwhile the New X-Men, characters who fucking amazing got shafted so hard and were written out of character so badly that at some point I thought there would be a possession arc.
Seriously, fuck Aaron's X-Men run and all the absolutely fanfic tier writing that came with it.
>>82442754
i hear you. i guess it really boils down to the type of stories a reader prefers. i'd rather read stories about conflicted characters that do not always act in altruistic fashion, but that's just me. the X-Men are, indeed, superheroes, and i don't think Morrison's run fundamentally changed that notion, and there are plenty of stories still to be told (barring crossover and multi-title events - what a bore those have become) about X-Men saving the day.
full disclosure: i do not read X-Men these days. i think i grew out of them a while back, but i sure enjoy debating about them and, unlike some others on this thread, will not disparage anyone for disliking Morrison's run or any subsequent run.
>>82442754
I know that it sounds cringe, but I'm going to save this post for future discussions. I feel liek basically everything that is wrong with the x-men nowadays goes back to morrison's run
As someone who likes Morrison, it felt like Morrison wanted to come in and re-define the x-men for no other reason than to do that. Break up Scott and Jean, the X-Men power couple. Introduce more flaws to Professor X. Make Magneto a mustache twirling villain because Morrison loves black-white conflict. Re-structure the mutant struggle so that it's about being different and not being better.
It's not hard to see why long term x-fans have a problem with it.
>>82441061
>>82441093
>Xavier Institute is actually a school
Too little, too late, Charles.
Everyone besides the all ready smart guy turned out horrendously undereducated.
>>82442681
Between the (pretty abstract) destruction of genosha, cyclops' mercy killing and the mystry-villain unstoppable by the X-Men's useless powers (that than get's stopped unceremonial by a lousy hand gun), felt way to much like a hamfisted "everythings different, we am edgy now" to be fun. Might be OK on a re-read, today, but at least back in the day, it felt like a cheap forced gimmick.
>>82442980
>writes apparently good Thor, never read
>writes Schism
>writes Whor
>writes WatXM
Did he write good stuff in past? Indie work?
>>82443048
>Introduce more flaws to Professor X
He did that, but he didn't turn him into an outright monster like later writers.
>Make Magneto a moustache twirling villain
Wow, you didn't read the run at all.
>>82443093
Fine, mustache twirling villain is not the right term. Morrison made him insane instead of a guy with an almost legitimate stance.
>>82442519
>blacklisted because of 1 story
That's like saying "I love all of Millar's work because he did Red Son!" aka fucking stupid.
Starlight was basically All-Star Flash Gordan and he wrote Huck as a response to MoS/BvS' interpretation of Superman, which he found disgusting and backwards.
>>82442598
>/tv/ the shitpost
Take your (you) and leave.
>>82443126
Yeah, what a swell guy that Magnitler is.
>>82443198
>which he found disgusting and backwards.
Oh yeah. Like he's one to talk.
>>82442298
Guy that asked here, good points
>>82443223
>implying sniktbub didn't have it coming
you also gloss over the fact that Chuck was pushing Magneto's buttons. also the fact that Magneto offered mutants a sanctuary on his asteroid, and X-Men royally pissed on this
>>82442952
>They are called homo superior
They aren't. They're just a bunch of freaks cooked up by Celestial labs.
>>82443360
No one knows what Celestials actually did.
There is a theory that they unlocked something that was already there. Also, without Celestials, you would have cancer-man instead of Spider-Man
>>82442754
Going off this idea about X-Men and mutants. I have an idea for a run of the X-Men when this entire Terrigan Mist thing runs it's course.
It's literally an idea I just had and it's called 'Xtraordinary People'. Basically it's 'We are not your kind of people' in comic form.
It looks at the idea that Morrison suggested, that some people are looked at differently because of their mutations, but also looks at another idea in Whedon's run I find to be a bit interesting.
So, I might be going on a limb here, but remember how because of Scott's emotional issues, his optic blasts have been acting the way they have for the last few decades? Well, what if that's something that happens to all mutants.
Your emotions make your powers act in a certain manner. I mean think how amazing that would make the entire idea of mutants. You have all these people who have the ability to be beautiful, anything they pleased, but society's treatment of mutants as well as their own issues caused their powers to go out of control and result in things like Beak's appearance.
I mean look at Angel for an example. His entire shtick was his wings. Wings he used to escape the shitty life he had with his father. Those wings meant more than just the ability to fly to Warren they meant freedom. In X-Force when he regained his Archangel abilities it was because of rage and his desire to lash out at those who would do him harm.
The idea of emotions affecting one's mutations could explain the idea of the institute a lot better. Xavier literally wants to make sure that those people damage by their powers can be in a place where they can regain the ability to be the extraordinary they are.
>>82442754
>People with certain disorders or living in social situations where they feel almost untouchable relate to characters like Rogue, because, while her power hinders her, it's also something amazing she can use to save lives.
That's like saying that blind people should relate to Daredevil even when they don't have crazy sensory powers or ninja skills like he has.
>>82442754
Hey in Beak's defense his descendant definitely shows a much improved version of his mutation pointing to the possibility that even if your current mutation is shitty, it might improve and become something great in subsequent generations.
>>82443062
>>82442754
>Nobody relates to cancerous caterpillar girl.
So characters don't look like supermodels, they shouldn't exist?
>>82443404
pic related
>>82443282
I agree with you 100%, the guy basically built his career on making cape books extreme, edgy, dark bullshit, I would call him a hypocrite to his face. Also, Nemesis was utter shit: everything from concept to execution just sucked and Millar's collective world is worse off having it in there.
That said, it's a good story though, little by the numbers: boy finds genie, wishes for success, monkey paw's the thing he loves, now he's gotta re-bottle the genie. If it's anyone's burden, y'know?
>>82443416
Man, after Gorr the God Butcher, I was excited for his Dr. Strange book.
Fucking monkey paws.
>>82442298
"Some mutants have better powers" has been a thing since the very beginning of the series.
You think Cyclops was cool with having laser eyes he couldn't turn off?
Do you think Magneto talk and do half the shit he does if he got Beast's powers instead of control over the magnetic forces?
Why does Storm get to be a demigod while Wolverine has to make do with claws that rip his skin every time he uses them?
>>82443563
This is totally as having 3 faces that do shit
>>82439424
Last time mainline X-men was worth reading
Except maybe Gillen Uncanny, but that had Land
>>82443596
The case still stands. Some mutants got incredible powers while the enhancements of others were kind of meh.
And to answer your question, somewhat advanced senses I guess.
wait so do people only judge the quality of their superhero books by its relations to continuity?
fuck
how do you think it stands on its own as a story?
>>82443637
The thing is, it's very plainly told in the story that he had no super powers.
>>82443676
Mixed bag. Some good arcs mixed with mediocre.
Also, it's edgy as fuck
>>82441017
Jean should have never come back in the first place.
>>82443461
gotta love how Beak's legacy was that he was a strong and powerful mutant. have any writers continued his story? he was such a memorable character.
Is the Morrison run a good way to get introduced to the X-men?
Like, i've seen the cartoons, the movies, i've played the games, but i never actually read an X-men comic, except a little Wolverine and the occasional crossovers with this or the other character
Where could i start? I tried Days of Future Past but i just couldn't get into it
Sell me the X-men, /co/
>>82443934
Start with Claremont and go until you start hating it
>>82443934
"Claremont and Morrison" is the default answer. But honestly I was never fond of Claremont's style, and it only gets Claremontier with time.
>>82443934
There is literally a thread about it
>>82442165
>>82442918
Because it fucks the mythos over. It destroys what the X-Men is actually about. Nobody wants to read about unnecessary heroes who honestly look like they're just trying to hold onto their speshul powers at the expense of the majority.
Some of these individual characters are not bad. But they absolutely shit on what the X-Men are about, and turn them into the nasty dictators of mutantkind.
>And mutants aren't the next step in evolution or some super special snowflake condition.
Except that's what they were created as. People with special powers. Not people with horrible diseases that SHOULD be cured.
>Remember Ultimate Origins where it was revealed that Ultimate Universe mutants were just the byproduct of super soldier serum research?
Remember when that was part of the worst storyline to ever take place in that universe, and in fact the one that completely degenerated it into tryhard edgy bullshit from which it never recovered?
>>82443401
That's absolutely what that says. In fact, it's saying the opposite. Blind people relate to Daredevil because he's blind and like him because it has become almost part of what makes him amazing. People who are ostracized and feel alone are in the same situation with Rogue.
>>82443454
Way to present a total strawman argument. Nobody's saying characters that don't look like supermodels shouldn't exist. Nobody's saying Nightscrawler or Beast or Anole should be done away with. But those characters get something positive from their mutation, and don't contribute to the modern image of the X-Men as tyrannical dictators preserving what, for most people, is a debilitating disease.
Tumor caterpillar girl is entirely contrary to the concept behind mutants.
>>82444078
>That's absolutely what that says.
Absolutely not, I mean.
>using phones for 4chan
>>82444078
This thread was something of an eye opener for me. It points all the problems with the post-Morrison X-Men I didn't even realize
>>82444078
That aspect has always been there though. You have guys like Beast, Chamber, and Wolfsbane standing alongside supermodels. Morrison just actually addressed it head on
>>82444193
Beast became hairy because of failed experiment.
Wolfsbane could change into human form.
Chamber might be the earliest example of mutant fucked by being a mutant, but he was a rarity, exception, not the rule
X-Men being supermodels is just artists being artists
>>82444193
Wolfsbane looks normal 99% of the time. Beast gave himself blue fur in a science accident.
And the point isn't that they look different. The point is that mutants like Beast and Wolfsbane and Chamber get something in return for looking different. They have a gift. They have something amazing. Wolfsbane has better senses than any human being, is strong and fast, can change shape, heals fast, etc. Chamber is a psychic energy mumbo jumbo powerhouse. Beast is agile, tough, strong, etc.
Cancerpillar girl does not get anything good. She's just a horrible abomination that should really be cured if there is a cure for her condition available.
>>82444193
And Rockslide has no junk
>>82444078
i honestly do not see how it messes the mythos up. matter of fact, i see Morrison's run as updating a dated concept in a modern setting. what i'm reading here is that some people prefer the original concept to the more modernized one. many fans don't realize how stale the X books had become by the time Morrison came along. i'd much rather read stories where most mutants were not special and the few that are behave like complex people instead of altruistic superheroes, but that's just me.
>>82444289
Portraying mutation as an actual mutation that isn't always beneficial is a lot better than "lol new species appears out of the aether"
>>82444316
see
>>82444289
That is pretty tragic though.
He doesn't technically need it, however. He's immortal, he has no need to procreate. He's a psychic energy presence that can forge a body out of silicon based stuff. Shit, maybe in the future he can actually make a body that's essentially just a silicon-based human one.
>>82444357
Says you. It's not what X-Men were about
>>82444362
Frankly, he could make himself a penis, if he wanted it. The thing is, he would have to find a she-hulk tier woman to sex
>>82440195
Like he's right, the only other stuff worth reading is the Claremont stuff.
>>82444444
WHAT A FUCKING WASTE OF QUADS
>>82444478
>quads
Can you count
>>82444345
So basically, you want a superhero comic about villains. Coo, good for you. But X-Men is not about that, and is still trying to portray these guys as heroes, despite the horrible damage Morrison has done.
And by the way, there's nothing more 'modern' about making most people that are supposed to have superpowers actually horrible disabled killmenow unfortunates. Modern media is full of X-Men like concepts where everyone gets good powers. You don't need to turn everyone into hideous elephant men to explore discrimination - in fact, that's about as unsubtle and uninteresting as possible.
Shit, look up 'Code 8'. It's an upcoming film that was recently funded based on a live action short. It looks like it does the whole mutant thing really damn well.
>>82444357
No, it isn't. Because it destroys the actual concept of the X-Men, which the concept of mutation is a plot device for.
And seriously, do you complain about radioactive spider bites and gamma blasts turning people into superhumans too?
>>82444490
sorry, meant quints
I just got so furious
>>82444519
I'll ask again
Can you count
>>82444519
Getting closer...
>>82444503
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqO90q0WZ0M
Thought I'd link it, because it's pretty cool.
See this? This is mutants done right. This is mutant paranoia and fear done right.
>>82444583
apparently no
>>82444590
nope, I'm past beyond retarded
>>82444503
>seriously thinking Morrison was worse than Bendis and fucking Austen
>>82444614
I didn't say it was worse than Bendis or Austen. Did I say that anywhere? In fact, if you look back and my previous post, you'll see I actually say:
>It's pretty good.
And it is. So stow your strawman, fagmaster.
As its own story, Morrison's run is enjoyable. But it took a steaming shit on all future X-men stories that has yet to be cleaned up.
>>82444503
Ah yes, the successors of Morrison writing the X-men as heroes
Like Gillen making the main team composed primarily of former supervillains
Or Bendis turning Scott into Magneto-but-slightly-less-extreme
Or Bendis turning Beast into a villain in all but name
Or Bendis turning Jean into a psychopath
>>82444738
>bendis x 3
well, anon? we all know how Bendis tried
Gillen was based, it's not like avengers don't have any former supervillains in their ranks, right?
>>82444788
>>bendis x 3
Well, it IS Bendis.
>>82444738
>Like Gillen making the main team composed primarily of former supervillains
Who went out and did heroic stuff. Had fun heroic adventures and shit.
Bendis is, of course, a complete fuckup. But his writing is a symptom of the idea that has infected X-Men, that the X-Men themselves are a bunch of fascist cunts basically, and that the dream of coexistence? Actually some kind of bullshit superiority thing.
You see this in everything these days. More and more writers have the X-Men basically acting like creepy fascists. Why? Because after Morrison, that's what they look like. They look like a bunch of assholes just out for themselves.
