Why is there no Anti-Punisher? Someone butthurt Frank killed his family member and I don't mean mobsters being pissed off at him I mean son of a undercover cop or something like that. Frank is an asshole btw.
>>82414216
Frank makes sure not to kill undercover cops. Your thread is shit btw.
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/paybackp.htm
>>82414324
>http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/paybackp.htm
this is why i love /co/, niggas with actual knowledge and they contribute. thanks based anon
>>82414266
Hol' up, are you sayin, you saying, are you sayingFrank can make no mistake?
>>82414517
Frank plans his shit out properly.
there was an arc in punisher max where a bunch of mobster widows teamed up to try to take him down
>>82414517
> Frank can make no mistake?
No to some degree, if you want a character that explores the ideas The Punisher doesn't, read Vigilante.
>>82414216
An anti-punisher would be a serial cop killer, anon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgPqUx4c9-M
>>82414753
There was also a Marvel Knights Christmas one-shot with that premise.
I forget which one came first.
The last issue of Untold Tales of the Punisher MAX also had a little kid try to get revenge on Frank for killing his father, who was numbers man for the Mafia, or something.
Also if you want a series that satirizes vigilante justice, read Foolkiller.
>>82414324
Payback is the closest thing to an anti Punisher, even though he's a full blown ally to Frank by the end if his appearances. Jigsaw also likes to use a Punisher themed costume once in a while, making him somewhat of an anti Punisher.
>>82416003
Because it would be no different than mobsters being pissed off at him. Every story about Punisher ends up having someone want to kill him for one reason or another. Often because he killed someone, because that's all he does. Where is the difference between a mobster and a cop pretending to be a mobster?
>>82414324
Why is there no Anti-Payback?
>>82418731
Because one is justified.
>>82418808
Is it? No more than Punisher is justified. He's a madman on a killing spree.
>>82418731
Well, the moral angle would be different, for one. However, what's it going to do in the end when Punisher is such an established character that he isn't going to be killed, and presenting him as a huge asshole is just basically going to sour the character for many in the longer run.
A better question is if there's ever been a story about the child of someone the Punisher killed growing up and trying to kill him in return.
>>82419117
I honestly can't think of any, but I'm sure there are that I just can't remember.
>>82414517
No. His character couldn't work if he made mistakes. It's effectively a super power.
What if Frank had a kid? Would that kid inevitably become Punishher Jr?
>>82419338
He had a kid in MAX.
He gave her to a relative of the woman he impregnated precisely so she would never even know her father was the Punisher.
With all the recent focus on police brutality, it could be interesting to have a guy whose family is wrongly killed by police due to racism launching a Punisher-like war on the police.
Frank comes after him, and he confronts Frank about the systemic injustice of modern policing that Frank in part upholds.
>>82419117
Untold tales of Punisher Max had one story like that.
>>82419370
And so no one else would know, either, because everyone would come after Frank's kid to use as leverage, just like Barracuda ultimately did.
>>82419370
>Implying that would stop her.
She's the daughter of Frank and O'Brien, her fate is sealed.
>>82419386
That sounds great, but too morally complex for a Punisher story. Punisher isn't known for exploring crime and criminality with nuance.
>>82419117
He would just kill them. Idk if it's ever happened, but there was that one story with the abused kids where he says he's probably going to kill them later
>>82419433
Would Frank kill someone under the age of 18 if they were committing a crime?
>>82419440
Forgot my image, but it was already posted anyway.
>>82414969
There's also that subplot in Circle of Blood.
>>82419480
Depends on the crime.
>>82419480
Probably. Especially since the absurd number of 16s drug dealers.
>>82419480
Maybe, but it's rather convenient that Frank tends to kill men in their early 20's upwards, Crime generally speaking has been a young man's game.Also we can talk about the race of his quarry, it's rather neat that the Italian Mafia is still relevant in his world.
>>82419480
I don't see why not. Frank's only line seems to be criminal/not criminal. He's been shown taking out tons of street dealers and the like, a good number of which have got to be minors.
A more interesting scenario would be to blur that line:
1. A teen snaps one night and kills his father who has brutally abused him for years. He runs into the Punisher. What does the Punisher do?
2. Child soldiers: I'm talking like 8 or 10 year olds, kids who have been raised from birth to be killers. It's not really their choice, and they know no other life. What does the Punisher do?
3. An 8 year old steals his dad's gun and intentionally kills some other kid he had a fight with earlier. What does the Punisher do?
Also, does Frank kill the mentally ill/disabled who commit crimes?
>>82414216
I actually like the idea. I thought of similar for other characters. The law gets it wrong all the time, even heroes make mistakes and fuck up. Especially in their earlier days. Also morality is both black, white and grey. Someone could want Frank dead, maybe a member of a mob family that was not even involved in the whole thing. Regards if they were mobsters, they were HIS family.
What gives Punisher the right? That's a fair and good enough question to explore.
Franks about revenge and Punishment?
>"Oh yeah Castle, well who punishes the Punisher?
>"Fucking no one."
>[Gun battle intensives]
>Punisher vs The Flanker.
Can't hurt to bolster his rogues gallery with someone just as consumed and driven as himself. Flanker could broaden his targets too to include all sorts of other heroes, vigilantes and members of law enforcement. It's not like cop killing is an unpopular these days.
Flanker needs to be just about guns and bullets as Frank, but maybe he's more into explosions, fire, chemical weapons too, nasty shit, symbiotes, doom bots. He plays by no rules.
>>82419480
Depends on the severity.
He killed a kid in Untold Tales of the Punisher MAX #2, for instance.
>>82419647
Frank killed plenty of black gangbangers in MAX.
>>82419647
Yeah, the Punisher requires a lot of contrivance to work. On top of the age/race thing, the people he takes out have to be the real scum of the Earth with no redeeming qualities or humanity whatsoever, because otherwise it's hard to see Frank as even an anti-hero.
Like some guy who is a good person but is desperate to feed his family and starts dealing drugs or agrees to help a friend break into a store. Has that ever come up, Frank having to kill a real person and not some monstrous child slavery rapist psychopath?
>>82419679
I think 1 and 2 would result in him actually trying to get the kids help. Not sure about 3 though, especially if the kid knew full well what he was doing.
>>82419695
The thesis of Punisher MAX was that the Punisher ISN'T justified, that his "moral" crusade is just an excuse for him to kill.
>>82419679
>Child soldiers: I'm talking like 8 or 10 year olds, kids who have been raised from birth to be killers. It's not really their choice, and they know no other life. What does the Punisher do?
There's a panel (not sure of the source) that's frequently posted that shows him killing them.
>Also, does Frank kill the mentally ill/disabled who commit crimes?
Yeah, sure. There's even a one-shot that ends with him blowing out the brains of a clearly severely ill fledgling serial killer who had yet to actually do anything, but was on the verge of it.
>>82419117
In PAD's Captain Marvel there was an 8 year old kid who would grow up to kill Frank as revenge for killing his father. Frank killed his father to stop him from killing the kid. The father was going to kill the kid because Marv showed him that his son would grow up to be a bad guy. It's implied that Frank shot the kid next.
>>82419117
Uh Isn't the Ressurection of Ma Gnucci about that?
>>82419244
>No. His character couldn't work if he made mistakes.
Only if you assume his character "working" means Frank being 100% right, which is just wrong.
>>82419939
I could've sworn that the dude gutted his friend or neighbor.
>>82414266
how the fuck does he know.
I've been huge on the Punisher since I was a kid, and I seriously can't grasp why. I guess it's just fun watching a guy kill bad people in fun scenarios with little consequence. I feel like there isn't much room for complex situations.
>>82419966
Jesus, I'll have to look into that.
>>82419977
Yeah, but the son was shown to be a complete scumbag even before becoming the new Elite.
>>82419994
He has informants in the police
>>82419982
The Punisher as a character functions on the idea of doing evil unto evil. If there is ever an instance in which the evil he does is done unto someone who isn't evil, then he falls apart as a character.
>>82419994
Because he was trained by The Shadow.
>>82417052
>those sculpted tits with the punisher skull just floating over them
jesus christ how horrifying
>>82419939
>who had yet to actually do anything
What the fuck, Frank.
>>82420110
Well, I wouldn't say nothing, seeing as how he stabilized but then vivisected a criminal that Frank left for dead.
Wouldn't the "anti-punisher" unironically be Batman?
>>82420074
Probably better back when it was bulkier costume.
>>82414266
This seems like a very poor plothole. I think it'd be fucking awesome to read a Punisher or even a Batman comic where one of them completely fucks up an undercover agent or someone that they couldn't have known about, and how they deal with the fall out of such a situation. What happens on the day that they are the villain, the one who deserves to be punished? This has always been something that bothered me with Batman, but I could get over it because of his endless money and batcomputer keeping him up to date, but Frank doesn't exactly have that luxury.
>>82420393
Well, he killed an undercover FBI agent in the 2008 film.
>>82419982
No, working as a character at all. If the Punisher was accidentally killing or wounding bystanders or killing the wrong people, he wouldn't work. He's an unstoppable force of vengeful justice, it doesn't work if he occasionally kills innocents. It undermines his mission and motivation. His family was an accidental casualty of crime and he's sworn to never let that happen again and never let anyone who does that live, he can't be doing it himself.
The Punisher has to be superhumanly good, because in real life anyone routinely having gun battles in a city is going to hurt and kill innocents. They're going to get the wrong guy sometimes.
>>82420446
Was that War Zone? Or the other one? It's been a really long time since I watched those movies.
>>82420446
It's weird, the movie really didn't touch upon the consequences of such an action, wouldn't the FBI be on his ass?
>>82420393
>This seems like a very poor plothole.
I disagree, I admit him never screwing up is contrived, but he's not that kind of character, or shouldn't be. If you want those questions or consequences explored, you should check out Vigilante by DC, it has all the nuances that the Punisher generally lacks.
>>82420446
The only time I ever want someone to mention the 2008 movie is with this exact sentence:
>Wayne Knight will play Microchip, a role he previously played in the 2008 film.
>>82419993
He gutted one of the guys who was barely alive after one of Frank's rampages.
>>82419480
On a related note, what does Frank consider worthy of death?
Would a weed dealer be on hit hit list?
>>82420037
>>82420499
That's an overly simplistic and narrow view of the character. He should not be 100% right, because at that point he ceases to be a character and his stories become nothing but pointless revenge porn.
>>82420529
>but he's not that kind of character, or shouldn't be.
Says who?
Not all writers treat him the same, and honestly having him just be totally correct and perfect is fucking boring and leaves you with a hollow story.
>>82420952
Yes. He's killed mountains of drug dealers at this point.
What about some nerd dealing adderall in his dorm?
>>82421012
But that's what he is. He's never been wrong. He can't be. It IS revenge porn.
Frank is a justice porn fantasy. A Frank who kills the wrong people sometimes is a very different Frank.
>>82421050
>Says who?
That's just my opinion mate. No story has ever had him being totally correct or perfect, even the early writers acknowledged that something was off about him. The idea that he needs to make a mistake is an idea that has been regurgitated by everyone, it's a boring one and dumb.
>>82421228
>>82420952
It seems to depend on the story.
In MAX he seemed to not particularly be interested in:
>Sex Workers
>Pimps (who play by his rules)
>Soft Drug Dealers
>Petty Crooks (Burglars, Pickpockets, etc.)
That said, he also entertains the notion of killing a few of them in order to scare the others into towing the line, so it's not as if he's against the idea.
OF course, MAX Punisher was, on the whole, more focused on taking down organised crime and targeting the big wigs than he was on gunning down whichever rando he stumbled on.
>>82414216
Batman is pretty much the anti-punisher.
>>82421154
>But that's what he is.
Not always, just the shitty versions.
>>82421471
If you think Ennis's Punisher was anything other than justice porn you're delusional. He even fucking says it himself.
>>82421471
Please show me a version of the Punisher where he makes mistakes such as killing the wrong person or killing civilians.
>>82421392
How?
Can you guys wanting a more human Punisher just read Vigilante already?
>>82421050
>Not all writers treat him the same,
That can be said for any character, but there are certain ideas, traits and aspects that need to be consistent. Frank has changed over the years, but there's a reason very few writers have dabbled with this "great" idea of him hurting an innocent.
>>82414216
Isn't Anti-Punisher just Barracuda?
>>82421741
>>82421694
Not specifically hurting an innocent, but MAX definitely portrayed him as not correct and a flawed human being.
>>82421715
In the way they fight crime. Batman is anti-killing and anti-gun
>>82421793
I think you are missing a fundamental point here. Frank is a murderous asshole, he's broken on a basic level.
The Punisher is not a man. The Punisher is an ideal. If the Punisher makes one mistake then the ideal dies, and so does Frank.
So the Punisher can not make mistakes. If it would the only thing that would be left is Frank.
The Anti-Punisher is a dead criminal non-American female gay transgendered disabled fat child whose family was resurrected by the police.
Now s/he avoids waging a multi-person truce on healing cops deep in the jungle using h/er complete lack of fighting experience and weapons training.
>>82420300
>Well, I wouldn't say nothing, seeing as how he stabilized but then vivisected a criminal that Frank left for dead.
So by that logic if some criminal escapes or somehow makes it to a hospital he'll go through and murder every doctor and nurse in the place.
>>82421913
This comes up in MAX in the "Girls In White Dresses" arc. A cartel at one point tricks Frank into thinking he'd accidentally killed a little girl, and it drives him to suicide.
>>82421928
my sides
>>82421833
Batman is also a fucking faggot even Superman isn't above killing some motherfuckers.
>>82421940
You know what a vivisection is, right?
Doctors and nurses don't do them for very good reasons.
Frankfags are just as bad as Batfags desu
>>82414753
I really liked that one.
>>82419939
What is in the top right panel?
>>82419386
It'd sound like he just does a sweep of the entire police station instead of vetting each and every cop like Frank theoretically would beforehand.
It'd make for an interesting story, but for a Punisher style cop killer he'd have to either be morally wrong for murdering all of the cops, or make it so that all of the cops are corrupt.
>>82425047
Penis, or some other body part.
>>82414645
Bruh, he killed the marvel universe once because he didn't plan anything out beyond shoot the bad guys
>>82421741
>but there's a reason very few writers have dabbled with this "great" idea of him hurting an innocent.
You don't need to focus on any incidents of this, but claiming that he never does is just silly.
>>82426424
Much like claiming that spiderman or captian america has never accidentally killed anyone in fights or isn't responsible for the death of some innocent bystander.
>>82426424
>but claiming that he never does is just silly.
Not really, but it's fine if it exists in your headcanon, although to be fair the closest story to explore that is "Ghost of the innocents."
>>82426572
I get what you're saying, but Captain America is a poor choice for such a statement. Has The Punisher been responsible for the death or harm of an innocent bystander? That goes without saying, but has he fucked up so bad that his bullet struck and killed an innocent? I have yet to see an instance of that, and that's the matter at hand. If a writer wants that, that's fine, however Frank doesn't miss, for the same reason Harry doesn't in this scene:
https://youtu.be/qoXDzsuqXFg?t=1m42s
I recommend "A Walk Among the Tombstones," it does Collateral damage pretty well.
https://youtu.be/aIv2Jx6gcFw
>>82425047
It's his dick. He carries it around with him in a jar.His mother molested him as a kid. Once she realized the error of her ways, she castrated him and then killed herself in front of him.
>>82421694
The Fraction Punisher run had Frank kill a reporter while under mind control.
>>82427017
Did she at least have sex with him before she cut it off. At least let the little guy cum at least once in his life?
>>82427128
I think you need to read my post again.
>>82427179
Molestation doesn't always mean penetration with dick, Anon.
The Punisher never hitting an innocent exists for the same reason the Shadow knows.
