How many undercover cops do you figure Fronk has killed over the years?
>>82409491
None.
A lot, but they were all dirty.
>>82409491
...You know I've thought of that. How would he even know? What he does could easily fuck up a lot of the plans of legitimate law enforcement in the long run.
>>82409491
Only dirty ones; he's very meticulous in how he plans his murders.
>>82409526
>applying real life logic to a vigilante escapist killing fantasy
>>82409491
All of them.
He probably has a bunch of informants in the police who tell him which mooks are actually cops.
>>82409545
Where the fuck do you think you are, dude?
>>82409491
My favorite Frank is the Frank who shoots through a hostage's head to get to the guy behind her, because fuck crime. I need my Punisher to be a nutjob who will do literally anything to kill killers, even beyond the point that he's no better than them. And I like my steak medium.
>>82409491
>>82409526
It's usually accepted that he focuses on mafioso, gang members, and people that he witnesses committing crimes so there's no chance of them being undercover cops. It's also generally accepted that he has informants in the NYPD, so he knows who's undercover and who isn't.
>>82409619
>It's also generally accepted that he has informants in the NYPD, so he knows who's undercover and who isn't.
Smart call.
Christ that picture is unsettling.
>>82409491
He does a lot of recon before even attempting a hit and he has several inside policemen who leak him information about undercover operations and things they can't touch legally.
It still happens but very rarely.
>>82409652
>>82409618
When did this happen?
>>82409909
Never, not even the edgiest Frank went that far.
>>82409909
He's just saying what he wants from Frank
>>82409864
>>82409619
>>82409604
Riiiiiight, because that isn't need to know kind of information. If you've got people undercover you definitely want as many people to know about it, especially possible moles.
>>82409545
>a vigilante escapist killing fantasy
>that is one of the more realistic Marvel franchises
616 Frank is dead, anon. Ennisher is the model to follow.
>>82410649
So you're just stupid right
>>82410700
>Anonymous (16) 05/02/16(Mon)15:47
Pls don't.
>>82410682
>that is one of the more realistic Marvel franchises
The Punisher is about as realistic as a Mickey Spillane novel. I get what you said leaves leeway for the fantastic, but Frank has always required an absurd amount of suspension of disbelief even in MAX, which was just The Punisher taken to the extreme end of hardboiled fiction.
>>82410838
So it's a world where no one ever dies from stray bullets or by mistake? Oh man, I wonder if it is in the Netflix Marvel universe where magic exists!
>>82409977
Punisher 2099 was still a member of the police force, he wouldn't have had as hard a time figuring out who undercover cops were.
2099 law enforcement is ridiculously corrupt anyways
>>82410838
This, Ennisher is about as realistic as a Jack Reacher novel or an episode of Strike Back. Just because nobody is throwing fireballs doesn't mean it's actually "realistic."
Ennisher is a damn fine pulp work, but the super-fans of it are among the worst fanbases in the comic community. It's the blind author devotion combined with the hyper-masculine manchildren combined with the "realism" idiots.
>>82409619
boy, it sure is a good thing those informants in the NYPD are only telling a violent vigilante who murders people. Or maybe they don't know who it is and they just sell info to people who buy it. That bodes well for the investigations.
I don't mind so much if he has accidentally killed one, so much as he BELIEVES that he's never killed anyone that didn't deserve it. That's the uncompromising nature of Frank that I like
>>82411444
Vash, you're one smug cunt. Which is why I hate it when I agree with you.
>>82412085
>not filtering that bisexual fatso
One of fears for the Netflix show, is that some oh so clever writer is going to do the whole "Frank shoots an innocent " story. Chuck Dixon wrote a solid article on why it's stupid.
>>82412085
Vash is probably one of the few "anons" that gets storytelling.
>>82412140
Did you two fall in love via OKCupid?
>>82412109
got a link to article? I'd like to read it
>>82412109
why is it stupid?
>>82412109
Why? I don't know anything about the Punisher but I assume that at some point in his history he has fucked up a few times and killed innocents.
and if he has why doesnt he punish himself and blow his brains out
>>82412109
>Chuck Dixon wrote a solid article on why it's stupid.
Everyone says this but I've never been able to find it.
>>82413036
>and if he has why doesnt he punish himself and blow his brains out
The few times they've done there's always been a twist that puts him in the clear, like the victim pulling through or it turning out that Frank was tricked.
>>82409619
>informants giving away the identities of undercover cops
That's fucking retarded and defeats the purpose of being undercover.
If a chump like Frank could get that kind of info, then any turncoat could as well.
>>82413128
Figures
Why don't they actually do it and have him kill himself
then he can fight/punish Mephisto or some shit to atone
Its comic books do whatever the fuck , but making him never be wrong is boring
>>82413036
> he has fucked up a few times and killed innocents
> blow his brains out
>>82413190
>he can fight/punish Mephisto or some shit to atone
He became an angel and hunted demons once, it's pretty much the single most hated moment in the character's history
>>82413190
They once did literally everything you just suggested (well, it wasn't Mephisto, but another Hell-lord).
It's almost unanimously considered to be the worst Punisher story ever.
>>82413244
Was this before or after he became Frankenstein?
>>82413268
Before by almost decade.
>>82413268
Before. This was the late 90's and the last thing to happen to Frank before Ennis came on board
>>82409491
Absolutely 0. He's probably Franked a few though.
So the Punisher pretty much just Judge Dredd, but without the satire and takes itself 100% seriously?
>>82413459
>takes itself 100% seriously
Not really. Some of the 80's and 90's stuff is pretty goofy. Hell even Ennis' work before MAX has shit like a Russian cyborg man with tits who loves Spider-Man and a midget crime gang that goes around kidnapping criminals and hacking off their legs
>>82413459
It's pulp,it's only as serious as you take it.
>>82413529
>>82413459
Even Max has shit like Barracuda and flying a defused nuke out of a Russian base to escape
>>82413091
He had it on his old website, he observed that every that pitches it goes the same route with the idea. You remember old man logan? It's essentially that, Frank screws up, retires, something bad happens and he goes back to his old ways. Jonah Hex had a story like that once, it's not bad, but the idea isn't interesting.
>>82409491
None. His superpower is the ability to avoid collateral death.
>>82413595
Ah, k.
At least now I have starting point for the search.
>>82413459
It really varies from writer-to-writer, some play it pretty serious(for a comic book about a guy who machineguns mobsters, it's all relative) and there's some who let a more satirical side slip through.
He's actually a really fascinating character because outside of maybe Batman and a couple others he's one of the most malleable characters in cape comics, where any approach from hyper-serious gore to borderline camp is equally valid.
I think it says something that we've now had four different live-action adaptations of the character and all of them have been wildly divergent, but they all basically work as interpretations(how they work as actual movies is taster's choice, obviously). You can really do anything you want with him.
>>82413691
I want a Punisher themed cooking show.
>>82413781
>Making Franks With Frank
I'd watch it.
>"And if you say he's never hit an innocent, then I'm telling you, that's fascist crap."
Why is Whedon such a faggot
Why does nobody know what fascism
If you want to know why Frank never hits an innocent, focus on the type of character he is, and the genre his stories generally fall into. Ever seen Due Hard? Do you care that John's actions would've gotten everyone killed in real life?
>>82413781
>Today, we're making Frank's Famous Punishment Pepper Chili!
>half an hour of him cheerfully adding habaneros, ghost peppers, that crazy pepper from the Simpsons and any and everything else, plus some kind of truth drug
>to the right of the counter is some tied-up criminal watching with mounting horror as he sees this concoction created
>episode ends with him finishing the chili, dropping the smile and brutally interrogating the criminal with forcefeeding
>cut to credits while the audio of the guy dealing with his firemouth continues
>>82413781
>>82414017
>Marvel teaching kids to be paramilitary nutjobs
Does Disney know?
>>82413781
>>82414017
>>82413459
well no, judge dredd just follows the law, to the letter. he believes in the law, and it's his job to uphold it no matter what. he IS the law.
the punisher punishes criminals because he feels that laws aren't enough. these criminals hurt and killed others, they don't have the right to do that and the law went easy on them. he feels they deserve death, and if the law doesn't give it to them, he will.
where judge dredd might send someone to the isocubes for umptheen years the punisher would kill them.
and where the punisher might not punish someone, even though they're doing something illegal, not hurting anyone but still illegal. judge dredd would send those to the isocubes too.
in short, judge dredd upholds the law, the punisher doesn't.
amount of satire and self-serious-taking varies from comic to comic, mainly for the punisher.
>>82413781
>It's just Frank teaching you how to poison food in a way that leaves no traces and no discernable taste
>His apron reads "Fear the Cook" with a little skull on it.
>His assistant is always some terrified criminal who knows he's the one who's going to be eating it and keeps begging to be spared.
>Every episode ends with him either feeding the poisoned food to a captured criminal and watching him die or going out with a cameraman and poisoning the food supply of an entire gang/organisation then filming the results.
>The sign-off is: "Until next time, I'm Frank Castle -- and I'm watching you."
>The credits play over him cleaning his weapons while staring intimidatingly at the camera.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXvuUp-KY5g
>>82413887
>Sup, I'm Barracuda and welcome to Cookin' with 'Cuda
>Frank can't be here today onna count of a bullet to the gut, got himself hold up in a safehouse writin' in a motherfuckin' diary like some tween bitch.
>We gonna make ourself some hot chicken.
>I know some of ya had Nashville hot chicken before, but that's some pussy ass shit right there. I'm gonna show you how to make some chicken that'll kick you in the goddamn balls.
>>82413781
I liked that episode when he had an emotional breakdown because his lasagna reminded him of Maria and the kids.
>>82415335
>At some point during every episode he suddenly stops and looks at his food in silent, internal monologue for almost a minute before taking out a gun and firing into his audience of bound and gagged criminals.
>>82413826
I think he's saying assuming everyone Frank Franks is guilty (i.e. thinking all criminals are guilty) is fascist. Which is still kind of bullshit because Punisher isn't really going after the "poor kids who are forced into crime by circumstance".
>>82416693
Considering the sheer number of street gangs and mob associates he's killed, he has probably racked up a huge tally of kills on people only guilty of property crimes and non-violent drug dealing.
>>82410867
Stop being retarded. Unrealistic and fantasy aren't the same thing.
>>82413826
He's right.
It's fascist in the same way Dirty Harry is.
>If only there wasn't all this red tape, limitations on authority/punishment, one person who knows best could dole out whatever punishment he deems appropriate.
Frank Wank is the worst. Shit like him tanking the Penance Stare. Frank's a compelling character, but treating him as 100% correct is absolutely retarded.
>>82417045
Whedon had no problem with all that collateral damage the Avengers did in his movies, guy's just triggered by guns.
>>82417100
AoU actually had a distracting amount of the Avengers avoiding collateral damage and saving civillians. It felt like it was a direct response to MoS' reception.
>>82417100
The Avengers don't hunt people down to kill them, though. They'll kill in self-defense but not in cold blood.
>>82417158
Sounds like the perpetuation of fascist crap.
>>82417214
The movie was about one of the Avengers taking a fascist approach, and then spending the rest of the movie trying to clean up the mess that caused.
Civil War is further dealing with the fascist implications of the Avengers existence as an extra-judicial entity.
I'm 100% sure any cop who sees Fronk is gonna make himself known, and Fronk researches his hits pretty thoroughly before he does any crazy military stuff, so probably a pretty low number.
Better question: how many undercover cops have died in the line of duty because nobody was there to shoot the assholes they were tailing?
>>82417045
>Dirty Harry
>fascist
I'm guessing you've never seen Magnum Force.
https://youtu.be/hf8GduOIaKo?t=2m59s
>Shit like him tanking the Penance Stare.
That's not his fault, that actually happened in a prior Ghost Rider comic, it's dumb, but it isn't Frank Wank.
>The Deacon is extremely large and is not affected by the penance stare because he doesn't feel guilty about what he did.
If they ever make another Punisher game I would love it if every mission has at least one undercover cop and the only way to get a good end is to finish the game without killing any of them.
Honestly I like Ennis's interpretation of Frank just needing endless war and conflict and his family's death was just simply a justification for the bloodlust. He's not actually interested in punishing the guilty outside of some genuinely heinous/awful crimes, the vast majority of kills are just him feeding his inner demons. I know it sounds bitter and villainous, but after re-reading the Death of Jean DeWolff, Frank not really caring about wiping out crime and punishing the guilty actually makes him more heroic- if he genuinely was interested in destroying the criminal element of the city and cleaning it up, he'd probably be more like the Sin-Eater and have to kill a shit-ton of otherwise innocent people. Everyone who gives criminals lenient sentences, all the neighbors who turn a blind eye to the crooks next door, the advocates for criminal justice reform, the police who don't enforce the law, he'd be killing plenty of people who, unlike his normal targets, probably would be a lot harder to justify. But because Frank is a soldier fighting an eternal war, he can clarify the difference between civilians and enemy combatants, and that means he can shoot his way through the dregs of society while generally good people can rest easy.
Ultimately I think the point of the Punisher is catharsis- when you open the news and read about some awful crime, you get this sudden urge and just want someone to go and gun the people responsible down instead of wasting a ton of time with the criminal justice system. Frank gives those criminals what they probably deserve within the safe confines of fiction.
>>82409526
>How would he even know?
I take Frank for the sort of vigilante who isn't above digging through police records to get more efficient intel on criminal organizations. I'm sure he'd acquire a list of names and faces on who's doing what from there.
OP's premise really only works in a situation where the cover is so deep there are literally no records and no one involved even knows it's happening. Which seems like a woefully incompetent operation by default with or without Frank's involvement. If the cop died or switched sides how would anyone even know? He just disappears without a trace.
>>82417740
I actually want the next Punisher game to don't take points for executing informants after they are no longer useful.
What's the point of having cool environmental hazards if I lose points if I use them?
>>82417740
Punisher game by Rocksteady using the GTA model.
