Previous thread >>82016377
What went wrong? edition
>>82022467
>What went wrong
1: Barry decides he must give in to Zoom's demands, after he releases his hostage, even though he's now more powerful than Zoom.
2: The Time Remnant explanation makes absolutely no sense.
3: Zoom's feelings for Caitlin are real.
4: No one posted the magnet.
>>82022467
Awful
Whomever wrote this episode should be ashamed of themselves! I almost felt like I was watching Arrow.
>>82022530
The Time Remnant stuff made perfect sense. It works the same way as it did with Thwane.
![kingsman-2-poster-this-major-character-s-return[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/08D9wev.jpg "kingsman-2-poster-this-major-character-s-return[1].jpg")
>>82022621
Eobard was erased from existence, opening the singularity, but his past self was preserved in the Speed Force. That makes a modicum of sense. Zoom travels back in time, recruits his past self, and kills him, thus preventing him from living to be his future self, all without the universe ripping open again. None of it made sense.
>>82022582
Nah, if it was like Arrow, Barry would have given up his speed while everyone kept talking about Iris any time she wasn't on screen while Iris whined at Barry for acting like Barry.
This episode was so shitty I dropped the flash. Good job cw
>>82022621
How? Unlike thawne he actually killed his past self, not killed some random guy and made himself look like him. He should have erased himself from existence doing that.
>>82022530
I found it on EZTV. Get the 2xx MB version, not the 7xx one.
I was also confused about the time remnant thing, as I thought it was a very obvious paradox (imagine if Barry had killed his former self last episode - we'd have no Jay and no Earth-2, among other things). I guess I'm glad to see it was just bad writing, though I don't like the fact that this show is getting worse.
I was also confused about the actual amount of Jays. So Earth-2 Jay was always masquerading as Zoom the whole time? That would explain why he was supposedly a "coward" who never challenged Zoom.
>Barry this is a bad idea
>seriously Barry this is a fucking terrible idea
>fuck fine Barry, let's do it your way
>Damn it Barry now look at where we're at
>>82022677
>Past self
>Not being erased before his current self
SPEED FORCE DID IT.
All you need to know.
>>82022726
I WARNED YOU ABOUT ZOOM
IT JUST KEEPS HAPPENING MAN
>>82022726
>Using your last words to approve of a ship
Did Barry hit his head in the Supergirl crossover?
>accidentally travel to a parallel earth just by running
>get back
>hey guys any ideas on how to travel to a parallel earth?
>Zoom kidnaps Wally
>Zoom takes Wally to the same liar team Flash has visited in the past
>I guess there is no way I could use my superior speed to rescue him
>Zoom wants to trade Wally for Barry's speed
>Zoom returns Wally safe and sound
>welp, better keep my word and hand over my speed instead of beating his ass with my superior speed, I'm sure I'll find a safer way to defeat this crazy serial killer with double super speed once I don't have any powers
>>82022621
No the CONCEPT makes sense in how it has occured before. But the way they shit it into the episode has no context. Thawnes time remnant had context. He was erased from the timline but there was still that 'remnant' of him left traveling along its path through the time stream.
In this episode we hear about zoom time traveling for the first time so theres no explanation what fixed point or break in the timestream created this remnant, where it was going, where it came from...just 'yeah im from another time, and thats like another time remnant version of me i guess. i totally convinced him to let me kill him even though based on my personality the only thing i value in existence is prolonging my life and gaining power'.
It was fucking dumb. He may as well have just gone 'magic' as an explanation.
>>82022769
>Promise me one thing, Oliver
>Promise meyou won't let the Black Canary die, promise me you will train Felicity
>whose the guy in the mask?
>you wouldn't believe me if i told you
fuck you faggot tell me anyways
>>82022677
He specifically used the word time remnant. Those are created when a speedster travels through time. It is the same exact principle- you don't have to die for one to exist. Time/space -> Speedforce -> time/space.
Why didn't Barry just beat the shit out of Zoom, I mean literally just speed force the shit out of his ass, just wreck his little ass?
>>82022726
>TFW Fucking Teen Wolf did this death better
How sad is it when you can't out do an outright terrible show on MTV?
>Character dies protecting her friends
>Character's death is the key to defeating the enemy
>Character dies in the arms of her former love interest, proclaiming she'll always love him despite both having moved onto other relationships.
I mean was it so fucking hard? Was it hard to let your character die with dignity?
>>82022530
>Barry decides he must give in to Zoom's demands, after he releases his hostage, even though he's now more powerful than Zoom.
By far the worst thing. I was [screaming internally] when Wally immediately ran off and then instead of fighting Zoom, Barry proceeds to give Zoom, THE GUY THEY JUST REALIZED WAS A SERIAL KILLER EVEN BEFORE HE HAD POWERS, all of his speed.
He decides he needs to beat Zoom because he doesn't want to leave an entire earth at his mercy, and he ends up leaving two at his mercy instead. Absolutely retarded.
So at what point did Barry travel to Earth-2 and order cardboard cutouts of Zoom's parents? It's not a plothole, just really silly.
>>82022880
It's 90 TV show Flash, I bet this so hard
>>82022955
"You from ANOTHER dimension" isn't that hard to believe.
I have too much time, what else do I convert
>>82022926
show jumped the shark
>>82022928
Wells' Apple Watch + Cisco Photoshop Magic + A really good printer
>>82022829
You're explaining essentially the same fucking thing. The only difference is the Zoom we've been following until now is the one that has yet to be erased.
And they DID go with the magic explanation because that's what Speed Force is. It's bullshit asspull go fast magic.
Welp, looks like I'll drop Flash after this season wraps. Not only is this completely bland now but there are constant breaks. 2 new episodes month long break then this episode.
![[sound of kryptonian neck snapping].png](https://i.imgur.com/fu7Lzf2.png "[sound of kryptonian neck snapping].png")
>>82022530
>Barry decides he must give in to Zoom's demands, after he releases his hostage, even though he's now more powerful than Zoom.
I didn't know they could pull off a more stupid "give my enemy more power than they deserve for literally no fucking reason" than the time Ollie gave the key to the League of Ass to Merlyn, but they actually did it. The absolute madmen.
>>82022795
Getting knocked out by Banshee obviously gave him brain damage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G04l28emvfY
>Well, this is a complication.
>4 episodes later
>Haha just kidding it was all part of my plan
What?
>>82022880
Its obvious who it isAlexander Luthor
Was tonight's episode really that bad? Havent had time to watch it since I'm dead
>>82022467
CW writers trying to recapture the magic of season 1, while exacerbating all the worst aspects.
Can we talk about all the garbage S2 has been?
>Finally show Killer Frost and both make her a one-off reference character (even adding that "lol Cisco I was tested as not being a meta! I will NEVER EVER become her!",) as well as making her go down because "friendship"
>Jay Garrick being totally wasted
>Felicity references
>Wally being shoved down our throats, despite him being a fucking shithead and nobody liking him
>Not developing Zoom at all, and dragging out the mystery of his identity
>Hunter/Jay LITERALLY telling Caitlin his identity and then being surprised when it blows up in his face
>bringing back Wells. While he's the highlight of every episode he's in it's obvious that they are using him as a crutch because they can't write anybody else
>rehashing season 1's plot of an evil speedster, but not giving us any connection to the character
>zoom being a boring as fuck cartoon villain, as opposed to Eobard
>more iris relationshit
>snart and mick getting sniped by Legends
is this show becoming Arrow?
>>82023058
Probably referring to the portal closing.
So was the first episode of Season 2 retconned or something? Was Jay ever the Flash? How could he be Zoom and Flash at the same time before finding out about the singularity? He said it himself that he went back in time after he found out about the multiverse.
>>82022972
No what makes it hard to believe, is that this you from another dimension is also your father
>>82023067
it was utter shit
>>82023058
we got keicuckud
>>82023016
watch gotham instead
>>82023058
I was thinking this too. They really are writing this week by week aren't they. That's why there are so many breaks.
>>82023067
I liked it, but it did get a bit retarded in the end. You know how every show has an episode where the good guys think they've always won, but since there's still 4-5 episodes left in the season, you know that's not the case? That happens, but in a stupid way.
>>82023102
No. He preteneed to be the flash to build up hope and then as zoom destroyed it all
>>82022982
Shouldn't they be ripping up trees and tearing up roads at the kind of speed they're traveling? Looks like if you're some chap walking through Central City you'll just see some pretty little lights when in reality you should probably be dead.
>>82022880
Real Jay Garrick.
>>82023098
Yeah I assumed he was talking about the portal and killing Jay off earlier than he had planned.
The original plan was to keep a portal open after all.
>>82023118
It's a couple weeks ahead but not by much. Think they finished up the finale a week or so ago
I'll just leave this here. Might be useful for next season.
>>82023016
>2 new episodes month long break then this episode
At least now it's a straight run through to the end. Could any burgers explain what the break was about? I'm used to your shows dicking about and having random breaks all over the place, but what the fuck was the point of taking a month long break, airing two episodes then going for another month?
>>82023067
It's a slow burn to a decent scene between Zoom and Barry. Then it just goes straight down the toilet from there.
>>82023076
>is this show becoming Arrow?
Don't say that. Don't you EVER say that. It's going to need to drop a few levels before it becomes Arrow.
>>82023135
True but what I don't get is that he said that Flash and Zoom have fought numerous times and Wells can even confirm this. Zoom said he's nowhere near fast enough to create a speed mirage so how the fuck did he do it?
>>82023115
Flash quality is kill for good? Or is there any redemption for it
>>82023126
>where the good guys think they've always won, but since there's still 4-5 episodes left in the season, you know that's not the case?
I hate this shit. I'll catch up on it by next weeks episode so I'll be back for the thread but if the show doesn't stick the landing on a mediocre season 2 I might be done forever and kill of BP for good
>>82023144
The speed force prevents that. Except for times when it'd be funny and not devestatingly tragic, I suppose. That's how it is in the comics too, and it's why Superman doesn't move at Flash speeds unless he's VERY far away from civilians.
>>82023202
>Zoom said he's nowhere near fast enough to create a speed mirage
Everyone saying this is retarded, Barry made multiple speed mirages the episode before Zoom pushed in his shit. He meant he's not fast enough to maintain a Jay speed mirage on earth 1, while being Zoom on earth 2.
>>82023181
Add "villain enters STAR Labs unopposed"
>>82023200
> It's going to need to drop a few levels before it becomes Arrow.
maybe i spoke too harshly but we're getting there
fucking hell, what if the next season's villain is another speedster? I can almost guarantee it's cobalt blue
>>82023230
How can the speed force prevent that yet he can create a tornado by running around in circles?
>>82023199
>Could any burgers explain what the break was about?
The midseason break was for Holiday vacations and what not. This latest break, I have no idea. This is really the only show I watch that does it tho.
They should really cut down the episodes for the season 20 something is way too much IMO. Too much filler.
>>82023181
>Cisco makes a casual-friendly reference / FREE SPACE
>Someone Catlyn loves dies
>Felicity is mentioned outside of a crossover
>>82023202
>Zoom said he's nowhere near fast enough to create a speed mirage
I assume he meant fast enough to create one across two Earths, not in general. He's faster than Reverse Flash so there's no reason he can't do it.
>>82022926
>>82023031
I mean, hell, the best way to deal with this would have been to keep Wally as a hostage and -- as the initial preview pics hinted -- reveal Barry's identity to him.
What we got was just...sooooo unsatisfying on so many levels.
Like, for fuck's sake, Trajectory did the whole hostage negotiation thing a lot better than this.
>>82023270
>>82023199
Same thing happened last year with the breaks. Same pattern. Assume it will occur next year too. Must have something to do with getting better ratings.
>>82023219
>Flash quality is kill for good? Or is there any redemption for it
The writers have an easy out to redeem themselves. We just have to wait and see if they take it.
>>82023144
Been wondering this too, how is the public seeing them. Are they visible at all or is it just a streak like in season 1.
>>82023275
>He's faster than Reverse Flash
Barry with a quick dose of tachyon amplification fucked him up. This episode just confirmed that the Barry and Eobard who fought in Barry's house that night are uncontested speed gods who could fuck up anyone but each other.
How could Wells and the entity of Earth-2 not realize Zolomon and Jay are the same person?
A 23-count serial killer whose case and face was widely public should not have fooled so many people for so long.
![2b9[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/MVXQyxQ.jpg "2b9[1].jpg")
>>82023267
>>82023267
Because speed force ain't gotta explain shit.
>>82023270
It's about sweeps and ratings.
Midseason was for Holiday, the one after that was to compensate for March Madness, Spring Break, and Easter. This one was most likely to stretch the season out a bit more and place key episodes in weeks that statistically get better ratings plus, and in Flash's case since it's break was off a week from Arrow, to give Containment a good lead-in.
>>82023317
FRIGGING CARDBOARD CUT OUTS
HAHAHAHAHA WHOSE BRIGHT IDEA WAS THIS
>>82023076
>is this show becoming Arrow?
Not yet, the episode just ended badly. It's not like the show has been hijacked by Iris x Barry.
>>82023181
>Cisco names the villain
>Joe bonds with his family
>Show forgets Barry has a job
>Episode's villain is a speedster
>Barry reveals his identity
>>82023323
Didn't Hunter in the flashbacks have a different actor? Because it sure looked that way to me but I'm not 100% sure.
>>82021993
>>82022503
Waid is weird and sensitive about shit, he blocked me when the Season 1 finale happened because I re-tweeted him freaking out about Jay's helmet and I replied also being excited about it.
Next thing I know he blocked me, honestly you shouldn't give much thought to what he does.
>>82022397
Also this, after Waid blocked me I was blocked by Slott even though I never tweeted anything at him nor got involved in the gator shit, so I guess they just share a block list.
>>82023219
>Flash quality is kill for good? Or is there any redemption for it
Maybe? People are upset because it sort of shows that the writers don't really have plans or think ahead, and a lot of people are mad because it completely shits on the characterizations from the comics Like, Jay only existing to ruse people who actually know about comics.
What I don't understand is how Wells knew Hunter and Jay, yet never pieced together that they look exactly the fucking same.
>>82023181
>Barry loses his confidence and has to have yet another emotional talk with someone to try again
>Caitlin brings up her feelings for Jay
>Barry does exactly what the villain tells him and it winds up being fucking retarded
>>82023323
THIS, to be perfectly honest
Hell, even if you consider that most of the Jay flashbacks to Earth-2 are fake, Wells has TOTALLY FREAKIN' SEEN Jay's face. And, as Wells himself has said, everybody knows Hunter's face.
I suppose it's one of those "lol its the helmet ;)" or "lol people just dont WANT to see him ;)" like Superman. But it's still a bit ridiculous.
>>82023181
>Iris loves Barry
>Iris no longer loves Barry
>Iris loves and no longer loves Barry in the same episode
>Barry encourages Iris too see another man
>>82022926
I simply cannot understand how a room full of writers failed to see how incredibly retarded this was. Sure, sometimes characters have to make stupid decisions for plot reasons, but this was a situation so easily avoided. Just have Zoom show up without Wally, tell them he's buried somewhere with enough oxygen for a few hours, demand Barry's speed in exchange for Wally's location. There, simple.
>>82023417
??
Are you confusing Hunter with his dad? Adult Jay/Hunter is always played by Teddy Sears. Hunter's dad slightly resembles Teddy, but he's different.
>>82023181
Caitlyn gets a new love interest
Barry doesnt know how to use his powers
How is it possible that the CW has dropped the ball so freaking hard with all 3 of it's DC shows this season?
izombie was really damn good and it's also a comic based show on the CW.
Havent been keeping up with this, what happened?
When Caitlin ran tests on Jay she detected no traces of the Speed Force in him. This episode confirmed he's a speedster and Velocity 6 was just an enhancement. Why'd he have no Speed Force?
>>82023313
I don't see how. If they did this over here, people would just drop the show and watch something else that airs consistently.
So what was that breach that Barry went through at the start of the episode? Was that the entirety of the Supergirl crossover from Earth-1's point of view? Goddamn, time moves fast over there.
>>82023417
Nope, it was Jay. He had a beard in the picture, but they clearly shaved him while he was in the mental institute
And Jay doesn't wear a mask, either. Or vibrate his face. And from what I could gather his identity was publicly known, too. Nobody from E2 shouldn't have been able to look at Jay and peg him for E2 Charles Manson.
also can we just talk about this
>serial killer being executed (or getting electroshock therapy) is the EVUL SPEEDSTER
it's literally deviantart tier, nearly Snyder bad.
>>82023433
Come to the new thread buddy, I also made this for you
>>82023449
The appearance changed and no one knows he became a speedster. Jay then showed himself as the flash and zoom covered his face fully. No way you can remember or realize it until someone jog your memory.
>>82023542
Maybe Hunter's able to suppress the Speed Force in his system, like a Dragon Ball character can suppress their energy?
>hunter traveled back in time, kidnapped himself, convinced himself to pretend to be Jay and go to Earth 1 then be killed by his future self
>for some reason
I get the impression they didn't decide on who Zoom was until the mid-season break
>>82023542
A jay that didnt have it yet....i guess
>>82023542
I guess that Past Hunter was from before he was a speedster?
>>82023562
yes
>>82023509
No I mean in the asylum flashbacks.
They never really gave him a good close up but something seemed off beyond the long hair. A lot of people were asking it during the first thread too.
IMDB doesn't list another actor though so I assume it was just the hair and lightning.
>>82023417
>>82023509
Here's asylum Zoom.
I guess it could be the Superman phenomenon, where people just assume he has no secret/alternate identity since he doesn't wear a mask. It is ridiculous, sure, but not in an extraordinary way for the DC universe.
>>82023247
>>82023271
>>82023412
Added some of these, at this rate the show will have a lot of Bingo cards.
>>82023432
>>Barry loses his confidence and has to have yet another emotional talk with someone to try again
I was going to do the FREE SPACE a 'CW's Patented 5-Minute Emotional Scene that Kills the Episode's Momentum" but the font got so small it was illegible.
>>82023516
Leave here, shill.
>>82022467
I'm still hung up on how nobody including harrison wells recognized their Flash was a fucking serial killer.
>>82023614
And then they proceed to spend half an episode wondering how to get to Earth-2. Fantastic.
Really makes me think they had both episodes written up and ready to roll long before the crossover deal was finalized and then they just shoehorned them in.
I mean, Barry does literally nothing at all in Supergirl, and then this episode... nyugh.
>>82023365
>Unrepentant psychopathic murderer Hunter Zolomon was being given electroshock therapy when the particle accelerator on Earth-2 went off, granting him the powers of a speedster, becoming Zoom. Being a complete psychopath he decided the best way to cause suffering to the people of Central City was to create a fictional superhero, scientist Jay Garrick, also known as The Flash, who would combat Zoom and his rogues, giving hope to the people so that they would suffer even more when he killed them because he's a dumb, insane asshole. At some point he developed Velocity-6 to enhance his speed, but it is Speed Meth and is killing him. He is obsessed with speed and has undefined speed powers, so when the 52 breaches opened up between Earths 1 and 2 he was able to cross over, discovered Barry and decided to steal his speed, also impersonating a depowered version of his Jay Garrick personality. He also went about kidnapping Jessie Quick to force Wells of Earth-2 to help him steal Barry's speed in an attempt to alleviate his quick dying. When the gang started closing breaches and moving in on him he knew that the jig was up, so he used his fantastical powers to fetch a time-space anomaly duplicate of himself, convince himself to die for himself, and brought him back to kill before everyone in order to give Barry the push he needed to increase his speed to make it even more delectable. Now he's got Barry's speed.
kill me
>The thing is, none of this shit makes sense. It's overly complicated, and calls in to question how smart and how strong Zoom is. How did a psycho killer become smart enough to develop a speed enhancing drug, even one that fails? Why was he unable to find a cure? How great are his powers, since he seems to freely travel through breaches and time whenever he pleases. Why did he needed a complicated plan to make it look like he killed Jay Garrick if he could have just, say, killed Joe or Iris?
>>82023659
>implying any of the CW dc shows have been good
>calling anybody a shill
Only LoT can save us now. Maybe it will git gud
>>82023658
Dad wars
>>82023542
Because the Velocity 6 made him unable to tap into the speed force.
>>82023674
Yes, that was really weird. Barry accidentally travels to a parallel earth, then spends half the episode trying to figure out how to travel to another parallel earth.
Just run, Barry, run! You fucking idiot.
>>82023738
>Only LoT can save us now.
But that already failed us.
hhahah
Flash can still redeem itself.
At least it's not so far into the grave like arrow is
>>82023756
Except that it didn't at all.
>>82023674
I would not be surprised. Man, that was shoddy. How could we have possibly known? How can they keep getting away with this?
>>82023658
>wally being autistic in some way
caitlin having a line should be something special too, since she's basically an afterthought
>>82022530
>The Time Remnant explanation makes absolutely no sense.
Because he made it up on the spot. Why would he say "this is a complication" after killing the so-called Time Remnant through the breach if everything went according to plan?
How the hell are they going to get Barry his speed back?
Are they going to give him Velocity so that he can catch Zoom and steal his speed back?
>>82023757
>accidentally runs to a random earth
>surely if I keep running I'll eventually hit home and not be lost in an infinite multiverse
This episode had legitimate problems, you're just being stupid now.
What's with all the negativity? Why are people saying that the show is shit now?
>>82023658
>You have to go FASTER Barry!
>We believe in you!
>>82023520
TL;DR
>Flash becomes faster than Zoom
>decides to reopen one of the E2 portals (which had recently been closed off) to fight him again
>Team Flash beat him by triggering him with cardboard cut outs of his dead parents and a leg trap
>Zoom breaks out of the trap and runs off, Barry too stupid to even attempt to stop him
>kidnaps Wally, tells them he'll trade him back for Barry's speed
>they agree
>Zoom brings Wally back, he runs away to safety
>B̶a̶r̶r̶y̶ ̶u̶s̶e̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶o̶p̶p̶o̶r̶t̶u̶n̶i̶t̶y̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶b̶e̶a̶t̶ ̶Z̶o̶o̶m̶
>Barry & friends go through the long process of giving Zoom his speed, calmly chatting with him as anyone would with a serial killer
>Zoom reveals Jay Garrick was himself from the past that he brought to the present to pretend to be the Flash to give people hope (so he can take it away)
>Zoom explains the reason why he killed his past self and still exists is that _____________
>Barry finishes extracting the speedforce from himself, gives it to Zoom
>Zoom is now twice as fast and even more dangerous
>Barry has completely lost his powers
>...
>THE END
nobody's mentioning the absolute worst part
>literally using the "we're not so different, you and i" cliche, almost word for word
>>82023797
>>82023824
Because we like to blow things out of proportion, but if the writing continues to be like the last few minutes of this episode, it will be shit.
And the fact this season has just been meandering it's way through doesn't help.
>>82023821
He managed to run back to his earth on the first fucking try, surely he'd be able to pinpoint earth-2 and run there fairly quickly, especially since he's been there before
>>82023824
I personally wouldn't call the show shit. But its getting dumber. And between the ass crossover, the obnoxious fucking breaks in between every other episode, how much theyre dragging the story out, and how bad and strung out this last episode was (they could have gotten through these events in half an episode but they decided to spent 25 minutes with barry figuring out how to get cisco to open a breach when he could have figured it out before the first commercial break. NO suddenly hes worried about 'the dark side'.
It's getting kind of lame at this point where it was once a really enjoyable show to watch.
>>82023840
Whats fucked up. is those first two lines of your tldr take up 2 thirds of the goddamn episode.
Instead of taking breaks, they could have end the season around this time just like every other series but no, they want to take breaks and end the season at the end of May. What stupid reasoning is this
>>82023821
This is a legitimate excuse not to go that way, if they had acknowledged it. But they didn't. Barry didn't even mention it happening. Have him at least try and fail.
>Barry runs
>opens portal
>gets into portal
>comes out a second after, visibly injured
>where did you go
>throw reference to some elseworld here
>okay, that was a bad idea, lets try something different
>>82023902
I think that's fair. I think they just bit off more than they could chew with the multiple earths.
Maybe once we're done with this arc. And if not, there's always Season 3. Never give up hope.
>>82023703
>How did a psycho killer become smart enough to develop a speed enhancing drug, even one that fails?
That one isn't too hard to figure out. Wells created the initial Velocity drugs. Maybe Zoom discovered and tampered with the formula, creating the lethal variant.
>Why did he needed a complicated plan to make it look like he killed Jay Garrick if he could have just, say, killed Joe or Iris?
That makes sense too. Things were getting heated so he decided to kill off his Jay persona so he could lay low while Team Flash did all the work of powering Barry up for him.
Why he ever needed the Jay persona in the first place is the real plothole. But I guess they needed to play up his crazy side.
>>82023840
Was thinking of watching it, but after reading that ending, I don't want to. Did Arrow writers switch over for this week?
>>82023969
They sorta mentioned it. When Barry got back he sounded surprised that he was, and it really didn't seem like he was only surprised to be back at the lab.
And then they dropped it.
>>82023674
>>82023757
Barry ran fast and then wound up in a random universe on a different fucking NETWORK.
He probably only managed to get back because he was naturally synced up with the with his home universe.
The crossover is more of an underlining of the Earth 2 problem than anything.
The problem isn't getting to another universe, it's getting to the universe you're trying to get to.
>>82023969
How does Barry know he got back to the right earth and not one that's sorta identical but has differences of its own?
How the fuck does that device WIRELESSLY TELEPORT Barry's speed force into that vial anyway
>>82023181
>Free Space: BARRY FUCKS UP
>Caitlin does nothing important
>Cisco vibes
>Terrible CW Drama
>Harry the best part of the episode
>Someone cries
>ZOOOOOOOOOOOOOM
>Meta-human of the week
>"Where's Felicity"
>Wally a shit
>>82024072
>synced up with the vibrational frequency of his home universe
>>82023938
ratings sweeps
>>82023870
which is stupid because the only thing they share in common is their childhood tragedy. which isn't even similar at all - hunter's dad went fucking ballistic after the war and killed his mom. barry's mom died because of his personal time traveling stalker.
>>82023976
ah, autismposter. We're not so different, you and I.
>>82024087
He can't really, there is no way to make sure he's on the right earth. If he finds a difference then he can know he's on the wrong one, but there is really no way to know for sure he's on the right one.
Reminds me of a book, whose title I can't mention to recommend without spoiling its twist.
>>82022692
>Iris
>not Caitlyn
Nice try.
>>82024239
Here's a difference: If he's on a slightly different earth, there's that earth's flash?
>>82024274
>there's that earth's flash?
Maybe that other earth's flash did the same thing and wound up on a slightly different earth
>>82022880
>>82023145
>Real Jay Garrick.
Well damn Zoom now I don't want to believe any stupid shit you tell me god damn you're probably just making this whole thing up as you go. In fact, get out of here, are you even really a bad guy?
>>82024274
Not if that earth's flash traveled to a different earth at the same time and got back to the wrong earth (for example the original's flash's earth). Essentially Flashes switching earths without ever noticing.Which again reminds me of that book.
>caitlyn trying to appeal to Zoom's feelings for her
>the one who had feelings for her was his past self that died, and therefore present Zoom shouldn't even have those fucking memories
This time remnant shit is retarded
>>82022795
>hey guys any ideas on how to travel to a parallel earth?
He needed to get to Earth 2. If he did the same method as before he would have no way of making sure he got to the right Earth
>>82024376
Would be weird if you traveled to another Earth that you thought was home then 10 years later you find out someone you knew died a long time ago but it didn't have a significant impact on the timeline.
>>82024425
then how'd he get to his earth on the first fucking try at the end of supergirl?
>>82024465
What's to suggest that he got there on the first try? (haven't watched the episode but he might have been bouncing around multiple earths)
>>82024239
What book! Im so curious
>>82022880
It's his father.
>>82022916
Hey, TW was dope S1 - 3B.
It's a cluster fuck now though
>>82022530
>3: Zoom's feelings for Caitlin are real.
This is the real season he killed E2 Ronnie. He was tired of being cucked
so uh
if the jay we'd been seeing all along that wasn't Zoom was some kind of time afterimage of hunter why the fuck would he have any emotional ties to caitlin?
and if the time doppleganger came later, when was it introduced? he never had a chance to go get it without anyone knowing. I mean it had to have existed earlier since caitlin didn't detect speed force in him
christ alive what a shit episode
>>82024536
Gonna spoiler it, just in case. It'sThe Fold by Peter Clines.
>>82024651
God dammit that's not even completely ridiculous now.
>>82023703
>It's overly complicated
This is probably the biggest issue for me.
A large reason why S1 was so successful was because Wells' plan was pretty simple: figure out a way to use The Flash to get back to the future. And, ruin his life and then kill him before he's finally finished. It wasn't anything too flashy, and the simplicity of it allowed them to keep fleshing out Wells-obard's character, to keep using old characters in interesting ways, and to find satisfying resolutions to the main characters' arcs.
But here, it's like --
>Let's delay everything as much as we can so that we have to create asspull explanations and so that any kind of romance (or any type of interactions at all) seems forced as fuck.
Honestly, it's just...it's as if they've learned all of the wrong lessons from Arrow and have no idea how to make a 23 episode season last. So they just end up using one flimsy plot, stretching across the ENTIRE season, and they never figure out how to make each episode last.
NEWS FLASH: FOLLOW THE 24 METHOD.
Use an act structure! Stop trying to use decompression tricks on a goddamn TV show.
The first season, weirdly enough, fit the 24 method pretty well. Episode 9 "The Man in the Yellow Suit" was a good ending for the first act, and great beginning to the second one. Episode 15 "Out of Time" was a good ending point for the second act, and episodes 16 and 17 "Rogue Time" and "Tricksters" truly began to launch the show into its final and best stretch. Including episode 16, that was EIGHT episodes in the last stretch.
Here...we have like 5 episodes left? And there are still a bunch of hoops to jump through, plots to close, character arcs to resolve, people to get powered up, romances to spark, etc. etc. etc.
So iZombie really is the last good DC(Vertigo) show
We had a good run
>>82024212
Both autistic?
>>82024651
>This is the real season he killed E2 Ronnie. He was tired of being cucked
First time I actually laughed at someone using the word "cucked" in a sentence and it makes sense too.
>>82024737
>>82024789
I mean I hear Gotham is kind of ok but I haven't watched it tbqh
>>82024380
it feels like they were trying to trick us, after last season we knew from episode 1 that Wells was Reverse Flash. They wanted some kind of big reveal nobody would expect
Except the thing about surprises is that if you build your plot around them then plot points just come out of nowhere. People liked season 1 because of the tension between both parties, while season 2 has the cast and the characters both being suprised by the same things, so there's no build up.
I mean, we find out Jay is Zoom, and then the very next episode has Cisco finding out too. There's no suspense. There's no character. Zoom is just a plot device, and everyone else is just standing around waiting for him to do things.
The only actual plot in season 2 is Wells/Jesse (good) and the West Family Drama, which is cancer
>>82024737
iZombie is in name only though.
I hope DC can get a netflix deal.
Just imagine
Netflix Doctor Fate would be my number 1 want personally.
>>82024737
iZombie and Gotham, m8.
>>82022530
His feelings were probably some Frued shit cause Catlin reminded him of his mom
I've been working today, do we have a magnet yet?
>>82024818
It's incredible. You have to watch it.
But you really need to sit down and commit to the whole first season. It's a show that has a lot of moving parts, and all the dominos aren't set up until after the first half of S1. After that it's a non-stop rollercoaster. Just know that every single thing that you don't like when you start Season 1 (*cough*Barbara*cough*) pays off by the end of the season
Then Season 2 gets even more crazy.
So wait a minute, there never was a Jay Garrick on Earth 2 at all? Zoom just played hero for a while to fuck with people, then did a 180, then used the name again once he traveled to Earth 1 in the hopes of stealing Barrys speed? Kind of sucks for Jay fans
When he killed his time remnant he was in between demensions which in DC's theory meant the speed force would protect him
>>82024852
That's true, but it's a pretty good show. Lucifer is absolute cancer though.
>>82024969
I do have access to the DVDs and a Netflix trial pending so it wouldn't be hard to get into. I just don't give that much of a shit to Batanything so I never bothered.
>>82024852
Netflix The Question would be neat. I'm not sure I trust Netflix with anything magic/special effect heavy.
>>82025002
The Tim Burton Batman movies are all you really need; the shows are thematically designed around them.
You'll miss out on some references but that's about it. Also a word of caution that Episode 1 is the worst episode in the entire series.
>>82025002
You dont need to be a Batman fan to enjoy the show, you dont even need to be a comic book nerd to like it, though it helps in terms of making you appreciate some of the themes and villains.
This episode was terrible. Even with Season 2 being so weak lately, this episode stood out as just stupid. The sad thing is you can tell how much of a let down Season 2 has been because we all gave up making hypetrain shops and these fucking reaction images early on.
I just want Zoom to be about to kill Barry and then Eobard shows up and bitches about how he's going to be the one to kill Barry. Then we a get 3-way speedster fight and Zoom and Eobard get lost somewhere during the Speedforce shenanigans. Then Barry goes back to Star Labs and turns out all his time travel shit has altered his Earth in someway and season 3 is better written.
Just get rid of evil speedsters for a bit. Spend sometime having Flash just dealing with his Roguesuntil Hal shows up and needs his help fighting some douchebags from QwardIs that too much to ask?
>>82025078
>>82025087
I'll honestly think about it. Glad it's good though.
>>82024976
The man in the metal mask is the real Jay
>>82023267
My personal theory is that it prevents it since the overt power oft he speedforce is also tied into the will of the user.
If the user wants to create a tornado by running around in circles, then he can freely do it. If he doesn't want to destroy entire cities by just fucking running around the damn place really fast, then he won't destroy the city.
The speedforce is basically just sorta like the Green Lantern power ring when it comes to that. It can seemingly do things within the laws of physics, or just ignore it for the sake of it. There seems to be limits to it though, since it seems that the average clothing will still burn when the user runs fast enough...
So is there something more to Zooms darkness comment?
>>82024852
HBO (being a part of Time Warner) is significantly more likely than a Netflix original series deal, given that Marvel is the big Netflix pull right now and for the foreseeable future.
>>82025095
I just want to have fun again.
>>82025066
I wouldn't want any DC property to get the Daredevil treatment 2bqh. Shows that try to be "gritty street shows about the REAL city" are embarrassing.
I'd rather them just buy another season of Young Justice over pulling a Marvel "lets make a cape show for people who hate cape shows and use the word 'kino'" thing
>>82023076
>is this show becoming Arrow?
Honestly yes and faster. They're at Arrow S3 quality now where there's no real overarching plot that anyone cares about and the moments of hype are existent but fleeting.
>>82025124
Yeah but does that Jay have powers? Was he the hero of Earth 2? Or is this pre hardwater Jay? Im so confused.
>>82022928
Assuming Jay was lying and there really WAS a Zolomon running around in earth 1 he probably got pictures of them instead. That's how I saw it at the time.
can we just turn Caitlin into Killer Frost and have her hook up with King Shark?
then bring back Stein, Mick, and Snart from the Ripping Friends and make them all the new stars.
It would be a bold new direction for a Flash show but I think it could be fun
>tfw almost everything DC-related is having pacing problems lately
>a large swath of DC books after Convergence have pacing issues
>Batman v Superman is a mess overall, but it's even doubly so because of its pacing
>ALL of the Arrowverse shows have fucked seasons because the writers don't know how to pace their storylines
>>82025269
>a large swath of DC books after Convergence have pacing issues
I don't think this one is notable. That's always been the case in the age of decompression which is what makes the good books such gems.
>>82025124
It's Earth-2 Felicity. Barry will rescue her in the finale and then Season 3 is all about her adjusting to life on Earth-1, exploring her feelings for Barry but still being allowed to date others, and criticizing Caitlyn's weekly failures to help the team and Iris being a terrible writer and then showing them both how to do better. There'll be a Brave and the Bold crossover where Earth-2 Felicity teams up with Earth-1 Felicity to take down Grodd and his army of gorillas who have teamed up with Merlyn and his League of Assassins. Then there'll be a crossover with LoT later where Earth-2 Felicity teams up with Earth-1 Felicity from the Future who is the founder of the Legion of Super-Heroes.
>"You wouldn't believe me if I told you."
Shipp confirmed for real Jay knocking masketta man in prison.
>>82025254
>Turn Caitlin into Frost and hooks up with Shark.
About the only thing that would make her likable. But fuck it, if you cant do that, bring in Lincoln as the Earth 1 Frost
>>82023824
The whole season has been mediocre-bad.
Theyve had multiple breaks and after all the bullshit they've pulled this episode was supposed to be them finally unravelling the plot and making something good.
Instead they jumped the shark and gave us the worst episode of the flash to date with the biggest load of shit they've ever delivered.
>>82025325
FUCK
I WOULD ACTUALLY WATCH ALL OF THIS, JUST TO TORTURE MYSELF
>>82025375
Nah it'll be Shipp as older Barry from the 90s show universe. They'll play on the whole Barry will grow up and look just like his dad schtick.
Ok so we can all agree that season 2 is a mediocre rehash of 1 that wasted Jay Garrick. Season 3 could pull it out of the fire, but they need something good and fast. The Rogues are surprisingly underutilized, I say make Mirror Master the overarching big bad of next season.
>>82025433
Not a chance.
>>82025397
It's making it more obvious how unlikeable of a protagonist Barry is too. He was already kind of shitty in S1 but the earnestness helped correct for it a bit and the plot distracted people too.
>>82025480
The Rogues are dead. Cold is basically a hero at this point.
You think he's going to come back to Central City after Legends and go back to robbing banks?
>>82025538
>The Rogues are dead. Cold is basically a hero at this point.
God, how did things get this fucked up?
>>82025381
I've had that idea before, actually- if they don't want to make Caitlin Killer Frost, just have Loise be our world's Killer Frost.
My original pitch was
>Earth 2 Caitlin is Killer Frost
>When they come back everyone acts weird about her (this ended up happening)
>They tell her that she's evil in another universe, and freaks
>tries to prevent herself from turning and ends up becoming Killer Frost
>Uses the comic gimmick of being evil while she's Killer Frost, then turning back to normal when she drains enough heat
>Caitlin becomes a danger to the team and has to force herself not to become Killer Frost by maintaining her temperature
>they end up needing her to be Killer Frost
>she turns, but then they have to remove her powers from her for good
>meanwhile a friend of hers copies the experiment to willingly become Killer Frost and becomes a recurring villain (which ended up kind of happening with Velocity)
it would have been good, CW. Why don't you give us more Best Girl?
also,
>that pic
HNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG
>>82025480
I think we all know Season 3 is pretty much just going to be about Wally becoming a Speedster. It's most likely going to be insufferable.
Also I highly doubt we'll get much action from the Rogues. Cold and Heatwave's actors are heros now, plus their actors are doing fucking Prison Break again so they won't have time for more than a few passing appearances.
Where the hell is Dr Alchemy or Mirror Master, I thought they were meant to be in this season?
>>82025538
>You think he's going to come back to Central City after Legends and go back to robbing banks?
Yes? Legends just explains the no killing Rogues code and their relationship with the Flash.
>>82022880
Wally
>>82025538
W-................................huh....thats actually a depressing point you have there anon. Fuck! Where did it all go so wrong? I mean hell, the "rogues" only had like 3 members on there team max. Piper, Trickster, and Wizard never officially joined. Im starting to question this show now. Maybe we're all just dazzled that they pull off some weird shit like King Shark every now and then
>>82025538
Redeemed villains have gone evil again before. You can just have him decide in the end that the hero stuff just isn't for him unless the status quo is at stake. That is very easy to maneuver around.
I just seriously doubt the writing staff can concoct an interesting plotline regardless. S1 was probably a fluke.
Even if you keep Cold heroic I don't understand why you also go and change Piper to a good guy too. He could have easily been the replacement leader for the Rogues if you wanted.
>>82025593
But still, Mirror Master anon. FUCKING MIRROR MASTER. We can save this show. Clones, portals, lasers, trapping Barry in the Mirror World, the possibilities are there
>>82022880
I want it to be Doctor Fate.
It'll probably be incredibly disappointing, whatever the reveal is.
>>82025719
I seriously doubt the writers at this point could properly use Mirror Master
>>82025593
>wally season
That's when I drop the show. Jesus christ, he's literally Flash's Felicity
>>82025716
>I don't understand why you also go and change Piper to a good guy too
Because modern Piper has largely been a good guy. He's the one redeemed Rogue that has stuck.
>>82025664
yeah, there's a difference in not wanting the world to end and not wanting to rob a bank
>it took one epsisode to turn the Flash hype threads into Arrow threads
The sad thing is I don't even blame anybody. It's totally justified at this point.
Where did it all go wrong
>>82025766
Youre probably right...........dammit we really are getting a Wally season arent we? Cant wait to see his shitty costume with the exposed head and the terrible silver or yellow
can anybody explain how Zoom would have feelings for Caitlin if his time doppleganger was the one dating her the whole time?
>>82025886
kill me
>>82025850
>it took one epsisode to turn the Flash hype threads into Arrow threads
Eh, it's more like S1 was so much hype that now everything feels bad and people need to bitch about it. Same thing with Arrow after S2, except that there the flashbacks becoming entirely redundant and ran its course but they keep putting them on.
>>82025916
>in order to get White Wally back in the comics Black Wally will take over TV
worth it honestly
Also, I just realized that this whole teasing of the masked man is effectively an announcement of an announcement of an announcement.
* Regular announcement = "character X will be a big part of the next season"
* Announcement of announcement = "OK guys, we're going to announce that a new character is coming. wondering who it is?...." and then, "character Y will be a big part of the next season!"
* announcement of announcement of announcement = "OK guys, once we tell you what's going on, you'll freak..." and then "haha, ok, are you ready? we're announcing another new character..." and then "and that character is character Z!"
>>82022467
I just watched the episode.
What the fuck happened.
Started with such a cool scene and suspenseful music and then it just went to shit.
>oh the he caught one of us
>I guess we have to capitulate completely and make him truly unstoppable
>he's only a psychotic serial killer
This is the worst fucking episode of flash ever.
Holy fucking shit I'm disappointed.
Couldn't even have a fun wink to the supergirl crossover.
>>82025942
maybe it's like reverse arrow, where season 1 was shit and season 2 was good, then everything after is shit
m...maybe season 3 of flash will be a return to season 1 quality
>>82025954
>Hoping Redhead Wally will return
Its time to let go anon. Also Im sorry to say it, but a silver or yellow flash costume visually looks terrible on a dark skinned character.
>Arrow will never recover.
>Flash is going down the shitter.
>They'll never stop teasing us with Hal references, only to laugh at our pleas.
>Maybe we can get Alan Scott at least...
>He'll just have a cameo as a train conductor and never get any powers
>They'll never touch on the Justice League founding comment Gideon made again
>Writers forgot Gideon was even a thing
>We'll never see Grodd again because all that CGI budget has to be spent on Wally as a full-time speedster
>Mirror Master will be the B-Plot of a Wally learning his powers episode
>Felicity will probably replace Caitlin when they cancel Arrow
>Joe will turnout to have been an evil speedster the whole time from Earth-3 or some shit
>Patty was smart to leave the show
>i just wanted to run fast
>my feet hurt
>why am i still watching
>>82026042
>Its time to let go anon
but they're bringing him back in rebirth
>>82026042
There's literally no other character who could be a big enough spoiler for both Flash and Titans. The ONLY thing I can think of is if they sliding in Jessie Quick in his spot and even DC can't be that cruel.
>>82025891
Normally I'd answer "speedforce" for any question like this, but we all know it's just lazy writing at this point.
>>82025800
I'm aware of that, but my worry is that they're just throwing in comics stuff without a proper plan because they think fans watch purely for references.
>>82025891
>the whole time
I assumed he only brought him there for the death
>>82026108
>because they think fans watch purely for references.
We want the /co/ demographic.
>>82026108
that's been CWs MO for a while
see: Arrow
I know character IQ tends to drop when the plot demands it but for fuck sake Barry throw Zoom in a cell before talking to him. Because when the hell has the boot been that reliable?
>>82025916
From the thumbnail I thought this was Falcon.
>>82025891
He switched with his past self a lot. They both kinda dated Catlyin. So she was dating two guys at same time, what a slut.
>Barry doesnt fully recover from this
>Wally gains speedster status by finale
>First half of season 3 is Barry being Wally's Dr Wells and teaching him
Just end it now. Have King Shark eat the cast and become the star hero
>>82026249
>Have King Shark eat the cast and become the star hero
Now that's one way of "jumping the shark" that I can get behind.
>>82026021
Different network. They really can't say anything about CBS' Supergirl because contract was one way. CBS owns part of CW and they shilled the Flash on Supergirl during the crossover but that was their agreement. Besides it wouldn't fit the tone the episode.
As for Wally getting caught, Barry views Wally as family. He's Joe's son so that makes him brothers of sorts. They didn't have time to wait around for Wells to figure something, Barry & Team Flash seem to be caught constantly off guard by Hunter Zolomon. Which is perfectly reasonable, he's obviously planned this from the start. He knew that Barry would fall on his sword for anyone of his friends and family.
That's kinda his major MO, is that he'll put his life on the line to save his friends & family. As for him being a serial killer, it proves he's a master manipulator. They know how to tug on emotions and play them like a fiddle. Also if he's gotten away with 20+ murders, then he's pretty intelligent in hiding his tracks.
>>82023516
Vertigo show > DC shows
Flash BTFO by iZombie
>>82026249
Barry will recover, status quo is God. However I do think he won't be as fast, maybe go back to S1 speed levels. Then have him & Wally speedster tag team.
>>82025886
>>82025954
>>82026057
>>82026249
>>82026309
Guys. GUYS. Stop it. It was just one episode! Sure, the plot look fucked up at the moment, but we still have five episodes for things to come together. They can do this. We can do this. We just have to believe.
>>82022880
The writers haven't decided yet.
>>82026493
Hope is a dangerous thing, Anon.
>>82026493
It's not just one episode at this point. The entire season has snowballed to this point. Maybe they can get a new showrunner or something during the summer, but it's a bad sign.
>>82023810
>barry gets velocity
>disappears into speed force
Have fun fighting Zoom with an empty suit.
>>82026207
>Run a train on a girl with your speed remnants
Girls can have multiple orgasms? Well so can I
>Jay Garrick doesn't even exist
>"Oh that guy? He was just me I went back and time and killed me lol"
>The guy in the mask is going to be speedster E2 Wally so we have le epic stinger for the end of the season
>No one will care because every time Wally is on screen he's either whining like a bitch or has the personality of a rock
It's fucking over bros. That 'return to Season 1' episode was a bad idea because it revealed how shit S2 is to the retards left who had any doubts.
So what are you picking up now that you're dropping Flash?
I think I'm giving meth another try.
>>82026057
Godeon's on Legends bro.
>>82026615
I remember people getting mad at me for suggesting this season wasn't as good and claiming I must have been jealous that Flash was more popular than Arrow.
I'll still watch the Eobard episodes since they seem to do those right at least.
>>82023419
I guess. I just wish he gave me a reason.
>>82026792
Seems like whatever you did was probably more of a "muting" offense rather than a "blocking" one. Like maybe he didn't want to deal with people trying to talk about the episode to him at all or something and didn't want to get into a fight. Wouldn't worry about it too much.
>>82022926
I kept imagining that there has to be a twist.
>Barry actually is just acting like he lost his powers, and they are giving Zoom Velocity 9
>Barry actually stored away the majority of his speed force before the whole thing in a different injector and will be able to just get right back at it
>Barry actually thought of the same bullshit trick with the time remnant and he's going to show up
Right now, the only way I can see for Barry out of this which would be kind of cool even if it wouldn't make up for this episode, would be if this is the moment when Eobard Thawne first shows up.
Like the Time Remnant of Eobard Thawne comes, the first one. The one who doesn't yet know that he's going to be Reverse Flash and fucks Zoom up to help out his big hero the Flash, and help him re-create the accident just like he did to himself.
Just saw the episode. Is there a masketta man on both earths or did i get that wrong? The bridge leading to the hideout was different so i assume it was on earth-1.
>Velocity 6-9 gave that speedster girl split personality
>there's a good Jay and a bad Jay
>Jay was bad from the start
>the split personality good Jay came from him using Velocity 6-9
>something crazy happened and the two split apart
>good Jay fused back with bad Jay after he was "killed"
>Caitlin will save him with power of love
>Also Flash goes full hax mode and punches Zoom out of existence
The man in the mask isn't anyone we know, but some big name super hero that everyone will be surprised by.
>>82023784
>At least it's not so far into the grave like arrow is
Unlike Laurel.
>>82022467
How did they obtain life sized cardboard cutouts of Zolomon's family
>>82026947
Thawne was always evil in this continuity.
