I was reading through Warren Ellis' Thunderbolts run and I'm really enjoying it. It's only 11 issues so I'm looking for recommendations on other Thunderbolts runs (I've read that's Ellis' run is the best one).
If anything I'd like a series where bad guys fight together for "justice". Not Suicide Squad V1 though, that's already in my reading list.
Ives read it all and I honestly think Ellis is as good as it ever gets. Parker's run isn't that bad though.
>>81904280
>I've read that's Ellis' run is the best one
This kind of triggers me because Warren Ellis' run on Thunderbolts is a departure from what came before it. I like Ellis' run but it's not really representative of the Thunderbolts as a series.
I would honestly start reading the T-Bolts from issue #1. The original art is very 90s but for the most part the whole series is good. I'd skip Fightbolts (#76 - #81) and the Marvel NOW! Thunderbolts (the team led by Red Hulk). The original Thunderbolts might not appeal to you - it's written as a comic from the late 90s early 00s and while it is good maybe that's too much of a separation in time and from Ellis' Thunderbolts. But the guy writing it, Kurt Busiek, is a great writer and the whole series still holds up pretty decently. I can all but guarantee if you do read through it you'll come out the other end a fan of Baron Zemo.
>>81904395
>>81904421
Alright, this makes sense.
Do I need to know anything before starting? Because for Ellis' run you need to know about Civil War, for example.
>>81904572
Depends where you start. If you start from #1 the big thing to know is that the Onslaught saga just happened, and most of the official heroes (the Fantastic Four, Thor, etc.) are considered dead or missing.
Parkerbolts follows on pretty naturally from Ellisbolts and you might just want to start from the end of Ellisbolts and read up that. It's still Norman Osborne-centric in terms of who the team are and what they're doing. Once Luke Cage gets put in charge of the team hey start being more heroic and actually doing good (as they do pre-Ellisbolts at times as well).
>>81904572
Not really. Just know that Busiek's writing is really jarring in how dated and overly explanatory it is, especially compared to Ellis.
>>81904766
Ugh, I hate this. Is it like Claremont's X-Men where they explain every single thing like you forgot?
>>81904699
I'll do this, thanks.
>>81904917
I can't remember exactly, but there are lengthy narration boxes that set up what's happening despite the art making it plainly obvious.
>>81904917
>Ugh, I hate this. Is it like Claremont's X-Men where they explain every single thing like you forgot?
not to THAT level... but yes. Busiek is old-school, and it's not necessarily bad on a monthly format.
Still, you WANT to read them, trust /co/
>>81905082
The main selling point of reading from #1 for me is just to get more and better characterization of everybody. You see the start of everything but Ellis is pretty one-note in how he does the characters (except Speedball/Penance), for instance Moonstone is straight up villainous. Reading from Busiek Thunderbolts gives you the take that almost every character in the lineup could be heroic or villainous in different circumstances, and that those circumstances often depend on the rest of the team. And it's the reason most Zemo fans are Zemo fans.
But there's no question that Ellisbolts is more accessible to a modern reader. The writing is dated.
>>81905082
>>81905216
Alright, I'll believe. Thanks a lot guys!
>>81905318
Give it a shot and if it doesn't work out just carry on from Ellis until NOW! IMO.
Jury's still out on whether the new run will be any decent.
>>81905216
See I think Ellis' super streamlined style is exactly why I prefer his run to everyone else's. The sharp humor, the simple but always entertaining and quickly paced plot lines, and all of the characters being distilled versions of themselves is what makes this probably my favorite Marvelshit of all time.
>>81905482
Not to mention this was like the last time Deodato was tolerable aside from Dark Avengers. His paneling on Thunderbolts is aces.
Worth noting, if you liked the team lineup of the Warren Ellis Thunderbolts, you might also like to dread Dark Avengers, since it more or less continues to follow that team masquerading as the Avengers once Norman Osborn takes over as head of HAMMER.
>>81905482
I like Ellisbolts, I just also really like the Thunderbolts characters and team so I like basically all of their runs that are good and I like giving lots of character stuff to all of them. From Ellisbolts you would probably never get to Karla as Team Mom or 'nice' Karla, and even her competency as a manipulator is ridden down a bit. Parkerbolts kinda gets back to those beats some when it rolls around. The scene where Doc Samson and Speedball cut loose on Karla in the Ellis run is incredibly satisfying, but equally as satisfying is the much earlier scene where Karla up and hits Zemo so hard two of his teeth explode (and no Zemo is instant minus points when it comes to the 'Bolts).
Ellisbolts is definitely not my favourite Marvel run ever but for sure, it's pefectly solid.
>>81905552
That sounds cool but what issues of Dark Avengers should I read?
>>81905552
It was definitely influential as hell. Bendis was trying to copy Ellis' Norman for years afterwards.
>>81905552
>dread Dark Avengers
Dread is the right word IMO. Worse writing and the Deodato art takes a fucking nosedive.
>>81905645
Just.. All of them. It's a short run, I think only like 12 issues total? And ends with the 3-5 issue Siege mini event.
>>81905552
And it's the last ok thing Bendis wrote
>>81905705
I think it's worth reading for watching Norman continue to crumble into complete madness.
for real, like all of T-bolts
>>81905757
People tend to have a moderate-to-good opinion of it, but it's just another shit Bendis thing for me. I remember too much crap from it.
I wish Ellis was on another team book. Karnak is ok two issues in, but maybe his weakest Marvel work ever.
>>81905634
>even her competency as a manipulator is ridden down a bit.
her CHA save throws were ridiculous in Busiek's and Nicieza's runs
>>81905482
the characters being the distilled version of themselves is quite the BAD point given they were multi-faceted three dimensional characters before that
>>81905716
Ok, so I shouldn't read Thunderbolts 175 to 190?
>>81905821
Ellis is always hit-or-miss. For everything incredible like Planetary there's something like No Hero.
He also has a really distinctive authorial voice, so once you read a lot of Ellis you start seeing the author more than you see the character. Too much repetitive, cynical British shit. There are a few British terms that work their way into his Thunderbolts even, I think.
>>81905898
That's the Dark Avengers stuff. It was retitled.
>>81905898
You should also read that! It's just that it is a new Thunderbolts team entirely. It has been a while since I read it, but I don't remember thinking it was bad, and it has a really weird cast that gives a bunch of F list supervillains like Headsman, Paladin, Grizzly, and Mister X a chance to shine.
>>81906039
Alright, thanks!
Also, this is kinda unrelated but downloading the comics I want to read feels shitty. I'd love to buy them but they aren't available in my country.
>>81905914
I liked No Hero. Black Summer and Supergod are way better though.
>>81906267
>I liked No Hero.
Supergod is okay.
Is Zubbolts gonna be any good?
>>81906462
????
The art is pretty Liefeld-esque. I'm not really a Skullkickers fan but I have some hope for the writing still.
>>81906508
I like Wayward.
>>81906347
Super god is good. There are definitely times where ellis sucks himself off in it, but its good.
>>81906570
I haven't read it. It's good? Love the issue 1 cover actually.
OP here and I wanna ask one last time:
Is the correct way to read Thunderbolts: Thunderbolts 1-174 then Dark Avengers 1-16 and finally Thunderbolts 175-190?
>>81906817
Don't read Dark Avengers.
>>81906817
>>81907042
Read Dark Avengers if you like.
>>81907135
>>81907042
Should I be careful because it's Bendis?
I've only heard good things about Bendis' Daredevil and Ultimate Spider-Man runs but aside from those I always read about how shit he is.
>>81907320
>Should I be careful because it's Bendis?
This is a wise sentiment for any venture into reading comics.
Honestly man just give it a shot and see if you like it or not.
>>81906817
Dark Avengers and Thunderbolts 1-174 happen at the same time, but the story of the Osborn Thunderbolts team continues in Dark Avengers. I don't know, I guess I would read that one first for continuity sake? The two teams don't cross over at all I don't think.
>>81907480
Sorry, Thunderbolts 175+ I meant.
>>81907376
Alright, I'll do that.
>>81906817
Thundebolts is actually renumbered from #1 as New Thunderbolts for a stretch, and there is a vital Avengers vs. Thunderbolts mini that you'd also want to read.
