I think the saddest thing about Cavill is he clearly has the charisma to be a great Superman.
But they force him to be conflicted and brooding in an effort to appeal to the cynics of the character.
It's part of the curse damn it
>>81895560
Have you seen the sad Affleck interview? When asked about the RT scores Cavill doesn't even flinch and charms his way out of there while Affleck seems like his soul was lit on fire.
With a good director Cavill could be a perfect Superman.
>>81895560
Cavill has no charisma, he is a lifeless, handsome piece of cardboard.
>inb4 man from uncle
BANE?
>>81895613
He plays literally the best Superman possible under the Hack constraints.
>>81895560
Zack Snyder is a cynical piece of shit. That's why.
>>81895560
I think Martin from Double Toasted said that it's a sign of the cynical times we live in that Superman isn't allowed to smile anymore. He can't be clean and heroic without repercussions. He needs to be brought down and dirtied like the rest of us.
He's the most recognized hero in the world, but people don't love him unless they can subvert and deconstruct him until nothing is left.
It's sad, really.
>>81895782
It'd be fine with me if you put Superman into a cynical world but had him still come out smiling. In fact it'd probably be an amazingly powerful and mature story. But Snyder conflates "bringing hope to a dark place" with "make everything dark" and it's frustrating to see Cavill's wasted potential.
Hopefully one of the two unnamed DC movies announced was a solo Superman with a different director. I want to see Cavill Supes for real at some point.
>>81895863
That's the thing.
Snyder says that Superman succeeds and that he's a symbol of hope, but everything he shows undermines this.
The DCCU is a shithole and nothing Superman does seems to make a lick of difference.
Plus we've had so many deconstructions of the Superman myth, that we barely remember what he's supposed to be like.
>>81895666
What I like about this post is that it isn't even a case of reading too much into things, a lot of what he's saying is either obvious or meaningless. But I bet being able to extend it to seventeen posts made him feel really good about himself.
>>81895613
Stardust
>>81895613
We're talking about cavill, not hemsworth.
>>81895560
I really like him and think he's perfect for the role, it's the godawful shit writing thats holding him down. It's really fucking irritating to see.
>>81895720
>Zack Snyder is a retard. That's why.
FTFY
>>81896173
>hemsworth
Really, anon?
>>81896430
The plank of wood with no charisma and no presence that exists only to take his shirt off every 5 minutes? Yes, landwhale.
>>81896457
>i've only seen the thor movies where he's still pretty charming
Go watch Rush, faggot
>>81896457
Why are you so upset about this?
>>81896521
It's a statement. You're the one throwing a shitfit that someone dared criticize your husbandu. He's a shit actor.
>>81896501
>where he's still pretty charming
Looking pretty doesn't make you charming, legbeard.
>>81896457
>calls Hemsworth bland
>defends Cavill who was literally stony faced majority of the time in MoS and BvS
kek, dc cucks everyone
>>81896501
The fact that you still think he's charming says everything I need to know.
>>81895613
>Cavill has no charisma
This
Christopher Reeve made a bad script work, in fact I think the only reason norms care about Superman now is because of him, not because of the character
>>81896594
The only one getting mad is you tho
>>81896594
>>81896642
what the fuck is a legbeard
why are you samefagging
is this some sort of attempt to shitpost this thread with consolewars in hopes that a mod deletes it?
>>81896654
>Christopher Reeve made a bad script work
SMI and II gave Reeve some great material to work with though. BvS gave Cavill barely anything interesting to do outside of work commandingly every now and then (which he does very well).
>>81896654
>implying normies even know Reeve's superman
I mean the only good Superman movie came out in 1978. Literally no one gives a shit about the sequels.
Cavill has a lot of natural charisma so forcing him to be stoic and have bursts of rage comes off even more awkwardly.
I think he'd be much more at home with a more playful, upbeat Superman. The kind that's always in a good mood, the kind that's talking to the people he rescues to make them feel safe and feels perfectly relaxed in most situations.
>>81896897
>he always looks so happy in behind the scenes clips
>he's forced to be a brooding asshole that hates his self appointed role as savior
I fucking hate Snyder so much.
>>81896747
Am I the only person who way prefers SMII to SMI?
>>81895560
That's how it starts. The balding, the memes, the shitposting that turns good actors...sad.
>>81895863
>It'd be fine with me if you put Superman into a cynical world but had him still come out smiling. In fact it'd probably be an amazingly powerful and mature story.
This here, this so badly, it's not the setting it's the character.
Also Snyder turned down Superman Returns when it was offered to him and said inban interview while asked about it that it was jard to sell Superman to the modern audience.
And with George Miller's recent comment I am afraid it's going to be hard to get a good director who would want to write and direct a good Superman movie, at this point I am thinking they should at least hire Mark Millar to write them a script because he's been wanting to do a Superman movie and he has a good handle of the character and pair him with a good director.
If not have a director and writer who really like the character or are at least optimistic about him and make reading All-Star Superman a requirement for them.
>>81897187
Yes. SMII is shit.
Superman gives up his powers up for a woman. Not muh Superman.
>>81896360
And this is the guy they are allowing to direct their cinematic universe?
Welp... he is still better than Joss Whedon.
>>81897187
The Richard Donner cut is based.
>>81895560
I really hate when actors genuinly enjoy the character they are cast as but have to deal with meddling. Good on Reynolds for getting Deadpool done, but pour some out for Thomas Jane, Henry Cavill, and all the others that are perfect for the role, but can't potray the character as they are in the comics.
>>81896747
Only older normies do, I know because when the MoS trailers were coming out on tv some of my older coworkers were all pissy about it and commenting on how no one will ever be as good as Reeves.
Pretty sure once RDJ leaves the Tony Stark role and someone else takes over people are going to get pissy with the new guy and everyone who follows after him for years to come.
>>81896360
>That picture
Why do they even have this clown directing comic book movies?
>>81897576
We call this "Sean Connery Syndrome"
>>81896360
>People actually fall for this
It's a Christopher Nolan quote butchered to sound like a Zack Snyder quote. Even the "source" is fake
>>81895560
>mfw MoS 2 will never happen
>>81897187
Not only, but definitely a minority
desu, I don't think there's ever been a truly good Superman movie
1 comes really close, but the 3rd act shits the bed really fucking hard
>>81897435
AoU is a huge piece of shit.
But at least its coherent. I can't say that for either MoS or especially BvS.
>>81898131
Nah, it's not.
>>81897514
Totally feel sorry for Andrew Garfield, he totally loves Spider-man and had to endure the production cluster-fuck and aftermath of AS2.
>>81897514
Reminds me of how Evans always says that he was conflicted about being Cap because he didn’t want to be stuck in a situation were he had a shitty role or with a character that was associated with awful movies for a decade.
He said no multiple times and it took a call from RDJ and a talk with his family to convince him to do it.
Honestly TFA and Avengers were good for him thankfully but you can tell he didn’t start to really enjoy Cap until the Russos took over for TWS and husging by what the other actors have said about Civil War they are also enjoying what the Russos are doing.
But yeah Cavill needs a director and a writer that really enjoys Superman for his movies to really shine, Cap proved that you can make a movie about a straight laced moral character and have people like him.
>>81897435
>Welp... he is still better than Joss Whedon.
wew lad
>>81897799
>mfw snyder will never be fired because he's too entrenched with WB's plans for DC comics
>mfw Diana is 5000 years old
>mfw Reverse Flash is going to just be evil future Barry
>mfw Momoa can't act for shit and will further ruin Aquaman's rep in the mainstream
>mfw Cyborg has stolen Martian Manhunter's place in the JL
>mfw when we finally get Green Lantern, he'll shoot brownish beams and no constructs because that'll look "too silly"
>mfw all of these terrible decisions are the Snyders' fault because they're producing all these movies
>>81895560
the problem is, noone cares about the version of the character superman-fags want to have.
Overall superman may be an iconic character but that doesn't mean people want to watch his movies.
>>81898306
>People actually liked shapeshifting superman
>>81898323
>noone cares about the version of the character superman-fags want to have.
Sure they do. The closest analogue in terms of performance (not philosophy or backstory- which I'd argue is even more interesting to general audiences with Superman) would be Chris Evans' Captain America, and audiences love him.
>>81898365
>implying he has anything in common with Superman
>implying he's the last son of mars when this has pretty much only happened in JLU
>implying you even know the character
Goyer pls go
>>81898222
>Andrew Garfield
>Loves Spider-Man so much he spends all of Comic-Con walking the floor in costume
>Is in the "Shit, we need to keep these rights" Spider-movies.
That sucks so hard it probably physically hurts him.
>>81898323
Given BvS' massive dropoffs, sounds like the average movie goer doesn't really care for this brooding version either
Frankly, he's more boring than Reeve or Silver Age Supes ever was
>>81898568
>Given BvS' massive dropoffs, sounds like the average movie goer doesn't really care for this brooding version either
this has been discussed to no end, the portrayal of the characters was not the reason it didn't make money. If the batman trilogy has showed us something is that an accurate to the comics portrayal doesn't matter at all.
>>81898483
this has also been discussed, Cap america is a different case for a lot of reasons.
>>81895863
Honestly I see people give lip service to the idea that this Superman brings hope and light to a dark place but I'm not seeing it yet. The world more often brings him down, he doesn't elevate the world.
It doesn't help that the civilians in the DCEU are worse than the civilians in Marvel. And not even regular Marvel. X-men Marvel. Kind of makes me want to root for Darkseid really.
>>81896039
>but everything he shows undermines this.
Oh you mean like people trapped in a flood painting his symbol in their roof?
>>81898131
What is coherent about AoU? Tell me.
Quips do not make a movie coherent.
>>81898684
>this has been discussed to no end, the portrayal of the characters was not the reason it didn't make money. If the batman trilogy has showed us something is that an accurate to the comics portrayal doesn't matter at all.
It's a bad movie. People told other people its a bad movie. Part of its awfulness has to do with how bad the characters were written and portrayed.
No amount of damage control will change this.
>>81897732
Prove it.
>>81898323
>the problem is, noone cares about the version of the character superman-fags want to have.
You keep saying that but then why isn't this version more successful? By every metric other than dank TV memes this version of the character isn't what people want.
Hell even if you want to blame the MCU and say it's all one big conspiracy, all that means is that people want Superman to act like Captain America.
Maybe under another director. But I feel his portrayal is too fucked already. He's also dead, right? And poisoned by Doomsday blood.
>>81898306
>mfw Diana is 5000 years old
Yes and?
>mfw all of these terrible decisions are the Snyders' fault because they're producing all these movies
How is it Snyders fault that the new 52 had Cyborg instead of J'ohn?
>>81898887
>all that means is that people want Superman to act like Captain America.
People just want their superhero movies to be as much in love with their title characters as they are. TWS and Iron Man feel like love letters to their fanbases. TDK feels like a goddamn thesis on why Batman is the greatest thing ever created.
>>81899100
>Superman
>dead
Hah. But yeah, if Cavill gets another director I think he'll shine in the role.
>>81898306
>mfw Diana is 5000 years old
Cool
>mfw Reverse Flash is going to just be evil future Barry
Source
>mfw Momoa can't act for shit and will further ruin Aquaman's rep in the mainstream
We're talking about Aquaman here. There's nothing to ruin.
>mfw Cyborg has stolen Martian Manhunter's place in the JL
So?
>mfw when we finally get Green Lantern, he'll shoot brownish beams and no constructs because that'll look "too silly"
Source
>>81899173
>Iron Man feel like love letters to their fanbases
Does it? Because I heard otherwise, that the Tony seen in the movies is not comic Tony at all.
>>81899151
You'd think that someone 2 and half times older than Christ would have something meaningful to add to conversations.
Wow, I'm sorry Superman doesn't smile all the time and giggle like a school girl. God forbid he acts like an actual person would in his situations.
Zack Snyder vision of the character doesn't appeal to me, and the movie has dumb moments.
The guy is great, anyways.
>>81898228
It really is amazing how much all the actors praise the Russos. You can tell they're proud of their characters and the work they did for Civil War, and their enthusiasm for the projects will be peak for Infinity Wars.
>>81899173
What if Ben directs him?
>>81899233
Not if you spent all that time on one island cut off from the rest of the world.
>>81899233
You have all the information of the world available in your pocket, yet you're still a dumb fuck
>>81899223
The thing is easy to explain: no one fucking cared about Iron Man comics. At all. And no one fucking cares right now either.
>>81899270
Yes, I know that all of us, gifted with handsome looks, a stellar physique, the strength of a God, Invincibility and the ability to hurl ourselves through the sky like an ICBM, would behave like flinching, bottled up spergs.
https://youtu.be/MxZ5VQVHMoc?t=94
Guy Ritchie used him better
>>81898796
Well in AoU the color sceme isn't muddied so the audience can make since of the choreography with realtive ease. And we at least know the source of Ultron's hatred for the main cast. Meanwhile in BvS we are given next to no explanation for Clark's hatred of Batman
>>81899339
>Ben Affleck directing Superman
Yum
>>81899386
>>81899316
>Infinity Wars
There's a reason the MCU directors don't make into the third movie.
>>81897732
No it's not.
>>81899386
>no one fucking cared about Iron Man comics
I suspected as much
>>81895560
That's kinda what pisses be off too.
Cavill's a decent actor and could definitely pull of Clark and Superman, but he's saddled with shitty writers and awful directors with suffers through re-writes and re-shoots that let him stretch his acting muscles not all.
>>81895560
I would kill to see a film adaption of Lex Luthor: Man of Steel. Having Lex Luthor's perspective of Superman would be a great change of pace.
>>81899507
BvS took Batman's perspective of the guy. And since he's so afraid and paranoid, it has a similar effect.
>>81899507
>Eisenluthor
Luthor Sr. save us please
Why did WB decide to have an Old Batman when they intend to make this a connected universe of all the DC Heroes? Affleck is in his 40s, he has at best another decade left of acting, and yet WB thinks they can create a JL series, with all the other individual films before people notice Affleck just isn't suited for Batman anymore?
>>81895560
>cavill
>charisma
Don't make me laugh.
He's not Jai Courtney levels of bland, but pretty high up there.
>>81899151
>Yes and?
Do you seriously expect a believable amount of character development if Diana is literally older that every existing culture? It's a very stupid move.
>How is it Snyders fault that the new 52 had Cyborg instead of J'ohn?
Because he has carte blanc to do whatever the fuck he wants? Batman isn't old as fuck in New 52. Superman isn't a brooding mess in New 52. Aquaman doesn't resemble anything from the modern version, he looks like the Peter David version. Diana is only 23 at the start of New 52, not 5000. Green Lantern isn't even presented here and Johns has pushed the fuck out of him.
>>81899900
>>81899900
>Do you seriously expect a believable amount of character development if Diana is literally older that every existing culture? It's a very stupid move.
Since she was isolated her whole life and sh'es making first hand contact with the men's world, yes. I do.
>>81899849
He could always go the kingdom come or beyond route
>>81898760
The problem is the way it's shot. RLM pointed it out pretty well; it never feels like Cavill's Superman actually enjoys saving people. In the montages of him rescuing people, he's completely silent and frowny as ever, and the composition and palette keep playing it off like this is some kind of heavy burden he shoulders in spite of himself.
>>81899849
So was RDJ when he started Iron Man.
Also, there's another thing: Batman have been recasted, plenty of times for that matter. Iron Man didn't. In the public conciousness, Iron Man is RDJ and any other actor won't be accepted.
>>81899900
Do you seriously belive that someone who has been isolated for over 5000 year has anything to add? How old do you think Thor is? Yet people like him
>Because he has carte blanc to do whatever the fuck he wants?
Of fuck off, the shift from J'ohn to Cyborg was something that Johns did not Snyder. And he probably has to follow Johns new order because that's what the higher ups says
>>81899993
>RLM pointed it out pretty well; it never feels like Cavill's Superman actually enjoys saving people. In the montages of him rescuing people, he's completely silent and frowny as ever, and the composition and palette keep playing it off like this is some kind of heavy burden he shoulders in spite of himself.
This.
RLM can be pretty pleb about shit, but they absolutely nailed everything wrong with BvS.
>>81900053
>And he probably has to follow Johns new order because that's what the higher ups says
>thinking Johns has any real power
I guess thats why Green Lantern was so good right?
>>81899993
>keep playing it off like this is some kind of heavy burden he shoulders in spite of himself.
But it is a heavy burden he has to shoulder because nobody else can do it. Think it's Called Atlas complex
>>81900114
Still better than Thor.
>>81900114
That's not what I meant
>Johns makes a new JL lineup
>WB wants that lineup for the movie because it's the most recent one
>Snyder has to follow that lineup because of WB
>>81895782
You have MCU Cap being Cap even if he went through shit like "I had a date" or "muh Bucky". People can buy a boyscout. Blame Snyder who thinks "realistic" means gloomy, dark and ecchi. His set of mind is probably not far form kids who buy the adulthood is you realize when Joker makes sense bullshit. Shit like when he says killing Jimmy was fun or that heroes couldn't have a serious talk in costumes makes me think they couldn't pick a worse guy.
>>81900190
>implying thats even true
Keep moving that goalpost
>>81900151
Yes, because if there's one message to take away from Superman, it's that being good is hard and no fun and nobody wants to do it, but a few people are talented enough to do it anyway.
>>81895560
Why didn't you protect their smiles, /co/?
>>81896897
FUCK YOU SNYDER FUCK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
>>81899339
Aw fuck, those two are ridiculously handsome
>>81899879
No he's not
>>81895560
It's downright ridiculous how much more Superman-like he is in all the promotional interviews and charity clips.
>>81900847
I'm too busy laughing with the Marvel guys and having fun instead of wasting my time.
I do wish DC movies were good, don't get me wrong.
>>81900342
Cap is a rebel now.
>>81900847
Amy looks so stressed there. I just want to give her a hug
>>81895782
>He's the most recognized hero in the world, but people don't love him unless they can subvert and deconstruct him until nothing is left.
This isn't even true, it's just what Snyder thinks and what makes it to film.
>>81901580
DC started to "deconstruct" Superman when he stopped being relevant.
>>81901372
I think everyone wants there to be good DC movies. Only complete prats wish that they were bad. I think that's why you have so many people defending this movie; I certainly tried on the opening night. But the more I thought about it, the less I liked it; the more I remembered another scene that didn't work or another plot point that didn't make sense (which is kind of a problem when you're trying to create a more thoughtful superhero film).
And I know, as a guy who's loved DC since I was four, that this is a blow. The superhero hype train might not last much longer, so for the DC side, this might be our only chance... but it's just not that movie. And it's not Marvel's fault. It's not the shills or the critics or the plebs. It's Warner Bros, for treating the property like a cumsock and taking company men and faux-grittiness over trying to make a good Superman movie.
>>81901679
People want Snyder's movies to be poorly received so that he gets kicked off and someone else brought in. They don't want Snyder to be Michael Bay where we all hate him but he makes boatloads of money and gets to keep ruining movies
>>81900209
More like WB had an idea for a line up and Johns had to follow it.
You think constant love letter to the silver age Johns who had just laid the final pieces in returning the original seven League members to life wasn't going to play with that? You're out of your mind if you think Cyborg was his dea.Hell, I asked him at a con when he'd be doing something with the original seven and he said soon with the biggest goddamn grin. This was about mid Brightest Day.
>yfw Affleck directs a World's Finest movie
>>81895782
>but people don't love him unless they can subvert and deconstruct him until nothing is left.
But that isn't working. Nobody has really tried to have a clean hero for a long time. Even Returns gave us Superstalker
>>81901970
USA lost its collective shit after 9/11
>>81898796
Contrary to memes, Ultron's motivations are a lot more clear cut than Luthor's.
>>81901679
I'm torn because on the one hand I really want good DC movies. I prefer DC characters specifically BECAUSE they're not as complicated and are just generally better people than their Marvel counterparts. I like having heroes that don't need to turn being honest and just and helping people into a big dramatic chore. I have real life for that.
But at the same time, if the Snyderverse sucks, fuck it. I have the animated movies, and even the new ones are better than any of the live action cape stuff WB puts out. And MoS's defense force was just so goddamn obnoxious that I can't help but feel vindicated watching them suffer.
![04-captain-america-age-of-ultron.w529.h529[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/56fA5be.jpg "04-captain-america-age-of-ultron.w529.h529[1].jpg")
>>81901970
>Nobody has really tried to have a clean hero for a long time
on your left
>>81902241
He's relatable
- Puny young man become buff thanks to steroids
- Fish-out-of-the-water
- Rebel
- Look like a male model but still have reasons to whine
>>81897732
maybe it's fake but there's no way that's a Nolan quote. Nolan had that whole extended sequence in the jail where they were debating about shit in costume.
>>81899270
Just because you're a bitter cynic doesn't mean everyone else is. Believe it or not (you won't) for some people doing good feels good. And when you (well not you, but a neurotypical person) feels good, they express it with their face.
>Eisenberg was almost cast as Jimmy Olsen
>Snyder's wife convinced him to cast him as Lex
>>81902332
And? He's still pure, straightfaced, unironic, hero
>>81902398
Shit, seriously? The thing that was going through my mind when I was watching him was that he felt like Jimmy as a supervillain.
>>81902383
>Just because you're a bitter cynic doesn't mean everyone else is. Believe it or not (you won't)
So much cynism you have become the one you are critizicing. Kinda ironic.
>>81895560
I just found out he went to my school.
I never met him.
>>81902443
He was on the Rugby team. You were probably a shut in nerd
>>81901454
That kind of proves the point though. If you want to do a story where the character defined by being incredibly moralistic no longer fits with the modern zeitgeist, then you do it by making him counter culture, a "rebel". You show how the character as is has to navigate the new landscape, instead of changing the fundamental core of the character under the guise of "realism",
>>81902408
People don't see Superman as relatable. He never took steroids, he isn't a fish-out-the-water (not even during the Silver Age where he saw himself as a Kryptonian rather than human), he isn't a rebel (except on the golden age) and the superfags don't want him to whine
![250px-Action_Comics_775[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/GOL05DC.jpg "250px-Action_Comics_775[1].jpg")
>>81895560
the only to redeem the DCEU superman is if they adapt pic related and have it be directed byBrad Bird
>>81895782
>He's the most recognized hero in the world
He isn't, though. That'sArachnid-Fellow.
>>81897732
>>81896360
https://soundcloud.com/empiremagazine/batman-v-superman-spoiler-special-with-zack-snyder-charles-roven-deborah-snyder
5:55
>>81902520
Well that's true to some extend, but I did love going around the grounds on a wander.He was just before my time
>>81902383
You sound kinda jaded. Cheer up, man.
>>81902565
Jesus, this may literally end with Superman on his knees licking Ayn Rand's clit
>>81898131
AoU is entertaining, if not a particularly good film.
All of the Avengers sans perhaps Black Widow are likeable enough characters that just having them interact with a couple of set pieces and story that makes sense so long as you're not too anal about it makes it entertaining as a film. Hell, even the only boring Avenger, Hawkeye is redeemed in my eyes by making him just a bloke in slightly over his head, but making the best out of the bonkers situation he's found himself in. And that's not including Vision who was great. Wanda and Pietro were ok too I guess.
Is it a good film? Lord no, but it's not a huge piece of shit by any margin.
I'm no colossal fan boy who absolutely adores every Marvel film and thinks they can do no wrong whatsoever, but to my mind they have yet to do a film that isn't at least entertaining if it isn't good.
>>81902332
The only thing that sets him apart from Superman from your list there is the source of powers. Clark can be just as much a fish out of water, ain in fact this is the aspect that Snyder seems obsessed with; focusing on just how alone and out of place and alien Clark is and now he can't relate to anyone a bloo bloo bloo.
Clark could easily be a rebel in the sense that his morality is seen as not fitting in the modern zeitgeist. But they thought it would be easier to just remove that and call it campy and dumb and angst his shit up instead.
Because of the two prior points, he's got plenty of excuse to whine. Which he does. Too much.
So it really just comes down to powers, and if powers are all that it takes to define a character, then you're looking at the characters m myopically.
>>81902599
fuck
https://soundcloud.com/empiremagazine/batman-v-superman-spoiler-special-with-zack-snyder-charles-roven-deborah-snyder
5:55
>>81902649
>likeable enough characters that just having them interact with a couple of set pieces and story that makes sense so long as you're not too anal about it makes it entertaining as a film.
this is the secret Marvel cracked to get so successful btw
>>81902441
I leave the optimism at the door when I load 4chan.
>>81902536
sorry m8 I'm not trained to hit moving targets so your goalposts are hard to reach
>>81902649
>AoU is entertaining,
Good thing you started with that. Now I won't have to read your ramblings
>>81902599
What is Snyder's problem? Why does he do capeshit if he doesn't like the part that actually involves capes?
>>81902698
We all do
>>81902666
Aren't all those reasons why you guys are complaining? Regular Superman without deconstructions involved wouldn't feel alienated, neither whine a lot. He'd be just a boy scout having adventures. Modern Hollywood heroes always whine and shit for being "relatable", they feel out-of-place and they rehash the same arc over and over again
>>81898323
I legit believe that's because the 20 somethings now grew up watching Dragon Ball Z in which watching these characters become ludicrously powerful is part of the enjoyment, and when they come across a character like Superman they expect that from him, but get mad when that's not the point.
Hence the unironic complaints that Supes is too OP by Dragonballfags who are fans of a show where the point of every single saga is Goku becomes more OP than the guy who is too OP.
For what it's worth, I think you're wrong. It's perfectly possible to write the version of a character that Supermanfags want and make it interesting. Hell it's perfectly possible to do the deconstruction of the character thing Snyder tried to do but failed at without compromising Supes character at all.
What's so funny about truth justice and the American way did it perfectly.
>>81902767
Except I know that you did ;)
>>81902638
Didn't Bird repeatedly deny any interest in Objectivism?
Stretching as far back as the Incredibles, he rejected the notion.
>>81899215
>There's nothing to ruin.
fuck off casual
>>81902811
>Aren't all those reasons why you guys are complaining?
Yes and no. Because here's the thing. Execution trumps intent, and exploring those aspects of the character don't actually make it a deconstruction. You can in fact make a RE-Construction while doing the exact same thing.
This is a very layman's definition but essentially a deconstruction is when you take a story apart to see what's wrong with it. A reconstruction is when you put the story back together and show why it works. Snyder does the former, but not the latter.
For example, Birthright has a Superman that struggles with people being terrified of him and not accepting him, but it works. The difference is that Snyder does that ploit point, and pretty much leaves it at that. Whereas in Birthright, they do a whole thing on why the bright colors and lack of mask are intentional decisions on Clark's part to NOT scare people and let them know they can trust him. Do they work 100% of time time? Hell no, especially thanks toa Luthor smear campaign, but the intent informs the character in a way that Snyder's hasn't been.
And that's the problem. Snyder's got a Superman that doesn't try; he's just jerked around by the plot. An ubermensch with no agency isn't much of one at all.
>>81902912
I find it honestly hilarious that this SUperman gets so many DBZ comparisons when Goku is the most moralfag friend of children and animals pure character in his series.
Like literally there's a cloud that flies down from the heavens and only the pure of heart can ride and that's Goku's means of transportation. So clearly it's not the morality that people have a problem with.
>>81897261
Someone add Fraser's silhouette in the background
>>81899408
now i want to watch that, good scene
>>81903184
>Most moralfag friend of the children and animals
>Not Android 16
Nah senpai. Besides, being a moralfag is the point of Supes. To alot of children of the 90's the point of Dragonball was blokes punching other blokes. Sometimes with Lasers. Occasionally in space.
>>81902638
Wait is Bird a randian weirdo like Hack Snyder?
>>81895560
Know what I really hate? That bullshit about how Superman had to kill Zod to come to his no kill rule.
If you can't figure out that killing is bad by the time you are an adult you need to be sent to an asylum for the criminally insane.
>BvS is bad
>no it's not
>Yes it is
>b-but at least it's better than AoU!
if you're going to be a fanboy, at least show some backbone
>>81903184
Goku once gave the guy who destroyed his home planet and murdered his best friend in cold blood some extra energy to make his way back home.
Would Supes seem like less of an asshole with Jimmy Olsen around?
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/03/25/batman-v-superman-jimmy-olsen
>>81903401
pretty hilarious that Zack Snyder's magnum opus needs to be compared to a movie that even Marvelfags admit was shit
>>81903442
Kind of, because it'd give him someone he cares about that isn't his mom or his fucktoy.
>>81903476
i don't even think it was shit, it just wasn't as good as other movies. but it's still decent as fuck. it has it's weak points. as to bvs has some strong points but it's mostly shitty. even casuals at work said
>.....it could have been better
>i liked it....well i liked the batman parts
and this was the same answers i kept getting from different people i know don't really follow comics at all, as much as just like watching super hero movies.
>>81903442
Don't let Grant Morrison see this cover!
>>81895610
>Have you seen the sad Affleck interview? When asked about the RT scores Cavill doesn't even flinch and charms his way out of there while Affleck seems like his soul was lit on fire.
Seriously. The way he acts during that interview is how he should be acting as Superman.
>>81903645
>>81903442
WB needs to hire an ABSOLUTE MADMAN do just straight up do silver age Supes in a movie, cheesy smiles and all.
>>81903722
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS9gUUFz6Ps
It's weird that the Doctor Strange trailer has the athmosphere of what I would imagine to be a modern DC movie. It's kitsch, but unironic kitsch that has a serious tone and loves itself for what it is.
That could have been the right tone for the DCCU movies.
>>81898483
Audiences didn't love Cap until Winter Soldier though. A huge chunk of my friends who don't read comics just consider him a boy scout and don't care about him.
Snyder's problem is that he was so afraid of painting Supes as a boy scout that he forced him into this dark place, because Superman is "boring."
It's part of the reason that the end withSuperman's deathis so bad in my opinion. It only means something if he's become the most beloved and hopeful character on the planet, not if half the world hates him and doesn't know what to do with him.
>>81898684
>Cap america is a different case for a lot of reasons
most of those reasons eing superficalshit like "muh powers"
he's a boyscout and that works in modern movies, as much as Zack Snyder likes to pretend otherwise.
>>81905491
But you're wrong, Superman has nothing in common with Captain America.
>>81905385
>Audiences didn't love Cap until Winter Soldier though
And why do you think that is? They kept Cap as his original boy scout but placed him into our world and ran with the consequences, while never forgetting that Cap's moral center was the key to his character. That's compelling. MoS set this up, but BvS went full cynic instead of exploring it properly.
>>81905068
That really is the thing I hate about the DCCU so far.
It really feels like this franchise is ashamed of itself. Like the only way it can appear mature is to mute all the colors and have everybody be angsty and angry all the time and overload everything with stock symbolism. Because it's so shameful to be larger than life, it's so shameful to be a little camp.
Marvel chose to be touch up their cinematic universe with a sprinkling of irony here and there.
DC should have countered with heartfelt earnestness.
But what you get is movies that keep apologizing for having Superman in them instead of the Punisher.
>>81905385
First Avenger was my favourite phase one movie, but then I am a History graduate and the Red Skull is one of my favourite Marvel villains
>>81905651
uhh, hey, can I hang out guys?
>>81905754
>Zack "we can't let them talk while they're wearing their suits" Snyder in charge of making superhero movies
>>81905385
>Audiences didn't love Cap until Winter Soldier though.
While The First Avenger wasn't particularly praised, it also wasn't hated. Especially not as hated as Snyderman.
>>81900114
You know the guy that's assraping Arrow was the guy who assraped Green Lantern?
>>81905943
As terrible as the Snyderverse is I'd take 30 of them over another Guggenverse
>>81900661
>>implying thats even true
It is. I can't think of a single goddamn thing I liked about Thor. In green lantern, at least Oa looked nice and the alien designs were awesome. Plus, thor pissed me off far more than green lantern did.
Henry Cavill looks like he stepped out of a comic book as Superman. Of all the actors that have portrayed the character, I think he's the best (yes, even better than Reeve).
I really hope he at least gets the chance to keep portraying Superman for as long as possible, unlike what happened with Routh. Maybe even get a MoS 2 movie that's a bit more upbeat.
Plus he seems like a decent guy and a bro. And he's banging a hot 19 year old.
>>81906269
Routh as Ray Palmer really shows that he has the chops to play Superman's character, so it's a shame he ended up in a crappy Superman movie, too.
It really sucks that Richard Pryor did a voodoo curse to spite all Superman movies after his failed.
>>81896897
Its so true that it hurts. Cavill is a huge sweetheart, its impossible to hate the guy. He truly has the potential to be muh supes that we all deserve.
>>81906481
I didn't like routh cause he looked too small. He was too slender. He could have been a good superboy though.
>>81906697
I kind of angry. Atom probably fits his physique better.
>>81895560
Cynical grimderp assholes ruin comics. Film at 11.
>>81895560
He started out as a soft-porn tv actor, he knows he's lucky to be getting any movies, let alone ones that pay like this, and he's enjoying his millions of dollarydoos and his teenage girlfriend.
Don't pity him for his shitty movies and receding hairline, pity him for the heart attacks he's going to have in his late 40s from all that ridiculous muscle he's got to walk around with.
>>81896654
Reevefags are just the worst.
Fuck off out of here, Grandpa.
>>81907898
>conflating "I feel bad that I'm not getting a good performance with someone who can deliver it to us" with "I feel bad this successful man isn't more successful"
And even still, where did Henry touch you, damn
So will resurrected Supes be an even bigger asshole or finally the boy scout?
>>81905385
The heroic sacrifice misses what's special about Superman as a hero. The thing that's great about Superman is that he's a god with nearly limitless power but somehow he still trys to form an emotional connection with average human beings. He's friendly and humble, while having the power to literally destroy the earth. Superman's sacrifice does nothing to establish a connection between him and the people he protects. He doesn't even get a chance to speak to them throughout the entire fucking movie.
>>81899100
They should just go ahead and handwave something about Flash fucking with the multiverse and swap Snyder Superman for a happier, less broody one. Problem solved.
>>81896654
I don't care how good the actor is, he still has to abide by the lines and the direction he is given. Reeve's was given opportunities to display his charisma and actually act like Superman. The only way Cavill could elevate the shitty melodrama he was given would be insubordination.
>>81899339
Swolefleck does things to me I don't think I'm prepared to address.
