What's /co/'s opinion on Mark Waid?
I like him
>>81887822
s'pretty gud
>>81887822
Meme-tier writer nowadays
>>81887822
Pretty good.
>inb4 SJWaid memesters
Really solid body of work
He's written some great stuff but after his feud with DC his writing has suffered
Kelly is a better writer than SJWaid.
>Kelly wrote better JLA
>Kelly wrote better Superman
>Kelly wrote better Kingdom Come
>>81887822
Like most writers, his most solid work is in the past, andon DC.
The main himself is a big baby though, his twitter is awful.
>>81887977
Still better than Slott's Twitter.
>>81887822
I really liked Kingdom Come, and I've heard Incorruptible is really good.
>>81887944
DC burned bridges with a lot of their old workhorses.
Irony being they adapted Ellis' Red into two movies, when he hates their guts.
Rucka came back when they gave him two Wonder Woman stories to do.
Nothing short of carte blanche on a title would bring Waid back.
>>81887822
His writing has stayed more consistent than most throughout the years.
I'll read pretty much anything they put him on, though it's not always a guarantee.
Marvel is trying to slap him on literally anything they think won't sell by itself these days and A-NA-DA is still crap despite Waid writing and Ross covers.
Really like his work. No clue if he's a horrible person otherwise.
>>81888048
What's Ellis' beef with DC?
>>81888064
Should what kind of person the author is really matter? So long as they make good stuff, I don't care what they do/say in their spare time.
Alan Moore is a good example of this.
Irredeemable and Incorruptible maid me an instant fan.
I think he consistently puts out good work.
>>81888085
He hates pretty much their entire editorial staff. His words were something to the effect of "I will not work for them again unless everyone currently working for them now is fired"
His Hellblazer story "Shoot" was censored for like a decade by them.
>>81888147
It doesn't really matter, but If you are a fan of a writers work you generally want them to not be a crazy asshole. Although Alan Moore's crazy dickery makes me like him more unlike Waid who just seems irredeemably irritating.
>>81888178
Didn't this also happen with Marvel?
I seem to recall something about Waid writing a controversial Captain America comic that was censored.
I like his work even though I think I'd hate him at a personal level.
>>81888259
>Didn't this also happen with Marvel?
No, he works for Marvel on commission. He likes Joe Quesada as a person.
It's why he does six issues here and there for them. Moon Knight, the Avengers OGN, and so on.
Solid and underappreciated writer. Up there with greats like Morrison, Ellis, Ennis, Millar, Miller; maybe not Moore.
>>81887822
>Best Flash series
>Best Daredevil series
>Best Superman origin
>Kingdom Come
>Irredeemable
>Empire
Mark Waid was the writer that got me into comic books, not gonna lie.
>>81888178
Ah the story where he had infants murdered? That story? That's the reason he's pissed at DC? Also wasn't it Vertigo that censored that? Mainstream DC probably had nothing to do with it.
>>81888325
I know that he's tight with Marvel now, but I mean in the 90's I thought he had some falling out which is why he worked with DC for so long.
>>81888365
>Best Daredevil series
You shut your whore moth.
>>81888338
Kek
>>81887822
Used to be great. Used to.
Mediocre
>>81888365
>Best Daredevil series
>Kingdom Come
Kek
>Best Superman origin
Ok I give you that
His lifetime of fantastic creative output is null and void because of the one tweet of his that I politically disagree with.
He thinks a bit highly of himself and is probably a closeted pedo after reading incorruptible. I mean seriously, nobody spends that much time obsessing over the legal age of consent unless they really want to get into a girl's pants.
>>81888398
What's the problem senpai?
>>81888215
>>81888147
>le Death of the Author meme
>>81888436
Miller was better.
>>81888259
I can kinda understand DC's sensitivity to the school shooting story but censoring that Cap comic makes no sense. If I remember right Cap went inside the Red Skulls mind or something and the Nazi were portrayed as heroes and America as evil and shit. I mean I imagine if you just read like two or three pages out of context it would be offensive but I doubt Waid was himself implying the Nazi's are heroes.
>>81887822
He's a cunt
>>81888378
>Ah the story where he had infants murdered? That story?
No, Shoot is about Constantine investigating a school shooting.
>>81888437
That's not Death of the Author at all you nincompoop.
>>81888456
So was Bendis, Brubaker, Nocenti, Kesel
>>81888456
Okay grampa.
>>81888472
His Hellblazer was shit, with or without "Shoot."
>>81888480
It's equally retarded.
>>81888418
The joke of Incorruptible was Max Damage being absurdly obsessed with following the law.
He does good shit.
His Cap run is underrated, FIGHT ME
>>81888418
I dropped it after #3. It was so terrible.
>>81888501
Hey, I'm just saying that an author's personal life doesn't matter to me, all that matters is the quality of their work.
John Lennon was probably an asshole, but that doesn't mean he wasn't a talented musician.
I think Irredeemable was his last really fantastic work and he's been coasting since, but you can't sneeze at his resume. The recent SJW strawmen he's added to his comics and all that influence doesn't surprise me. If armchair internet feminists existed in the 90s he'd be doing the same shit, it's his nature.
I resent him more for being nicer to Man of Steel in his first week impressions write-up than he probably really felt. That was what finally tipped me to go see the movie, and it was the last time I took his word as gospel.
>>81888418
That was the joke. The villain's sexy sidekick was underage, it's an asinine detail that doesn't make him any more evil.
>>81888178
>>81888378
Shoot was written in late 90s, Ellis has written a fuckton for Wildstorm and a bit for mainstream DC since then
>>81888416
>/co/
>>81888436
>Miller
>Brubaker
>Nocenti
>>81887822
I like his writing, but he seems like a petty person based on his twitter. I understand blocking people who insult him, but he blocks followers even for the slightest criticism or suggestion. And wow, that MoS debate when he was butthurt over a journalist pointing out that there were AU versions of Superman before.
>>81888541
>John Lennon was probably an asshole, but that doesn't mean he wasn't a talented musician.
It's a fact he smacked around Yoko, yeah.
>>81888555
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't he fucking hate the shit out of Man of Steel?
>>81888541
An asshole makes asshole songs. A nice person makes nice songs. Because the creator and his/her work are the same.
>>81888416
/thread
>>81888593
Huh, I didn't know that. I just knew that he was a dick to his first wife and his son.
>>81888607
Yes. And don't turn this into Man of Murder thread.
>>81888607
The neck snapping scene, mainly. But then again he didnät watch Superman II, so...
>>81888621
This isn't how that works. At all. Hell, Orson Scott Card is living proof against your dumb argument.
>>81888621
John Lennon made Imagine though.
Just because Eric Clapton was an alcoholic and a druggie doesn't mean he made bad music, ya feel?
>>81888559
Shoot was also unpublished for years.
>>81888558
If it was only a bit of a detail in the beginning it would have been fine. But half of the entire comic was obsessing over whos going to be the girl he gets in the end and in every issue they bring up her age at least a dozen times. By the end of the comic they reveal it will be the underage girl and he was literally counting down the seconds until he could bang her.
I'm not entirely inclined to say it was a joke after seeing so many random other comic book authors do similar things in their own works. People who like underage girls *really* like to find excuses to include it as justification for their own feelings.
>>81888650
Card is a hardocre republicunt, and possibly a pedo, who writes republicunt books with naked children. Your point?
>>81888681
Lennon is a hypocrite then, and his songs are hypocritical.
>Eric Clapton was an alcoholic and a druggie
Who wasn't in the 60s?
>>81888607
oh he hated it, and had a worst reaction to the neck snap in a public theater than any one else would be willing to have. But he wrote that blog post like a few hours after seeing it and was still in the denial phase, so he gave it props in some areas and encouraged to go see it with an open mind. He also thought the Pa Kent scenes were brilliant. Surprise surprise, it isn't too far off from his flawed Kent that needed Clark to see the light.
>>81888621
That doesn't really change the quality though. An authors personality affects his writing obviously but how good the work actually is doesn't depend on how nice or mean they are. James Cameron and Michael Bay are both huge assholes who make similar movies but one of them is much, much better at it.
>>81888686
That's irrelevant.
Anon said Ellis is pissed at DC cause shoot got censored, the reply was that he has written a lot of comics for DC/Wildstorm/Vertigo since the censoring incident.
Incorruptible is one of the best comics.
>>81888706
So? They're still good songs, him being a hypocrite doesn't change that.
Also, Card is a good author, so I know you're trolling.
>>81888555
Nice dubtrips
>>81887822
I love his Flash and liked most of his Daredevil.
Superman Birthright is really good.
It's disappointing that he's such a nutcase when it comes to politics.
Hearing him barrage some women over twitter with insults for having the gall to set up a GG booth at the same convention as him, and calling them Nazis really put me off his current books.
>>81888735
>how good the work actually is doesn't depend on how nice or mean they are
Oh it does. Being mean to your team partners hurts the result.
>>81888706
You have a very black and white view on people, don't you? Because it sounds like, for you at least, people are either completely bad, or completely good.
I don't know if you know this anon, but some of your most inspiring idols in your life probably have some bad shit with them too.
Mediocre writer, most of his best work is carried by the artist. Daredevil being the prime example where his writing was pretty decent supplemented by a fantastic artist before his writing made it completely unbearable. Looking forward to seeing how long it takes before he does the same to Black Widow. Archie is already there. How do you fuck up a book with those artists? Dammit Waid.
>>81888706
Those rebublicunt pedophile books are good reads. The first two anyway.
>>81887822
Literally George Costanza.
>>81888758
>Card is a good author
Hi /pol/!
>>81888781
>black and grey
Fixed.
>inspiring idols in your life
...who?
What's /co/'s opinion on his Thrillbent webcomics?
>>81888769
You're right, Kubrick never made good films by terrorizing his cast :^)
>>81888717
Well Pa Kent was based on his version of the character. Aside from the stupid execution of tornado scene, Pa Kent was the best thing in that movie.
Guys just ignore >>81888800, he's obviously trolling you.
>>81888824
>Kubrick seldom made good films
Fixed.
>>81888755
So what's his big reason then?
I recently finished Shadowland, and I'm wondering whether Waid's DD is worth owning in OHC - I own Brubaker/Bendis omniboo, and would consider dropping the money, but all I read online are diehard fans, and those who think it's just average.
Worth the money /co/?
>>81888844
Cry some more, cardfag.
>>81888829
>some Kansas redneck
>not stupid
>>81888768
>Hearing him barrage some women over twitter with insults for having the gall to set up a GG booth at the same convention as him, and calling them Nazis really put me off his current books.
The what?
>>81887822
He's a good writer and storyteller, but he doesn't do much research for his stories and sometimes that can be obvious. But when he tells a story where he has full freedom to worlbuilding, like Irredeemable, he's great.
>>81888717
There's a difference between being a flawed father and telling your son to let people die for his own benefit.
>>81888829
yeah, another thing was that I think he was extremely gracious to them for saying birthright was an influence. He got to go to the premiere or some other early screening.
>>81888855
Nigger pirate it and see for yourself.
>>81888855
The first half is really good, this is more or less undisputed. But once it hits the Sons of the Serpent arc which begins somewhere near the end of the run pre-relaunch? it gets really boring and then after the relaunch it has a lot of ups and downs.
>>81888871
>Kansas
>Redneck
>>81888855
Waid's run is what got me into Daredevil. It's fucking great.
>>81888768
>caring about gg
Manchild.
He's evil.
>>81888922
When I want to buyfag, I only pirate the copy for the scans after. I guarantee I've owned, read and torrented more comics than you have.
>>81888939
That's what I've heard. Only first OHC is actually great, the rest is YMMV. I hated post-Bendis era on the whole, how would you say it compares in quality?
>>81888717
>He also thought the Pa Kent scenes were brilliant
HATERS BTFO
B
T
F
O
>>81887952
All three of these things are wrong. Joe Kelly is overrated as fuck on this board.
What is Waid's beef with DC?
>>81889055
Really nigga?
>>81889055
Joe Kelly's Deadpool run is actually bad. People really overrate the fuck out of his run. Sure he got modern Deadpool rollin', but maaaan the stories in his run are just fucking terrible.
>>81889097
>Some quaint Superman dialog
What are you trying to show here?
>>81889046
Then go buy it faggot and see for yourself. There are a lot of people who suck this run's dick, a lot who bitch about not "muh" and a lot who see the the obvious and actual flaws in writing, which there are many. You won't get a clear answer about it on internet.
>>81889085
He left and said he wouldn't be back until Bob Harras was fired. It seems that he and Harras hated each other when both worked at Marvel.
>>81889055
Kill yourself nigger. Kelly is actually talented, Waid is a competent storyteller.
>>81889150
That you're wrong, duh.
>>81889117
Kelly thought he was the intellectual counterpart of Morrison, and spent a large portion of his career trying to emulate that "coolness" while never coming close. It's a bit embarrassing to read how much of a rock star he thought he was, and a bit sad to reflect on how he never really made it.
>>81889156
I mean, if there are those three camps, I think I can go with
>a lot who see the the obvious and actual flaws in writing, which there are many.
since that's basically the answer I was looking for.
>>81889184
That's why Joe Kelly is so revered among comic creators, surely.
>>81887822
He used to be good.
As is the case with a lot of Marvel writers.
>>81889216
How do you think anyone could take you seriously if you can't tell Kelly from Casey? I think you should kill yourself!
>>81889216
The three camps are as follows
>Dicksucking -> Plebbit
>Not muh -> hardcore forum fanbase
>good with flaws -> /co/ and other places
>>81889097
What's So Funny... is a webcomic level strawman of The Authority. The art is good and it's a decently written story but the "moral" is really weak. It's just "these guys are bad and Superman is both morally and physically superior to them"
>>81889291
>muh GRIMDERP X-TREEEEEME
>>81888848
He could be like Waid and just hate Bob Harass
>>81889273
It's 1 am and I'm drunk and I actually have no excuse, I fucked up I fucked up I fucked up
>>81889224
He hasn't written fuckton of comics and capeshit and fucked off to other media. Waid has been busting his ass since late 80s. He definitely has more range than SJWaid and his protagonist aren't boring as fuck.
>>81889352
Is this seriously a fucking quantity over quality argument you're giving me?
>>81889291
Sounds like Kingdom Come to me.
>>81889085
He and Harras seem to legitimately hate each other.
>>81888036
>Incorruptible
Irredeemable, you mean.
>>81889352
His latest comic book work though is a new Four Eyes miniseries whose final issue will e out on April 27.
>>81889393
Have you actually read Kelly's work or are you memeing based on muh popularity? You are an absolute faggot. Bendis' Avengers is more popular than Busiek's, does that mean it's better?
>>81887822
His Flash is the best solo cape hero book of the 90s.
Kingdom Come is a classic.
His Fantastic Four was just OK.
His JLA was middle of the road.
Rest of his work is GARBAGE.
>>81889460
His indieshit is far superior than Waid could ever dream a concept off. And he hasn't written a lot of Capeshit.
>>81889527
What about Birthright?
>>81889171
I recall he considers Bob Harras one of the two main instigators of the 90s comic crash. (Other being that one hostile takeover shark who bought Marvel early in the decade and tripled comicbook prices overnight.)
He's all over the place in terms of quality, and he's kind of insufferable to see on social media.
>>81889527
His early Daredevil stuff was great.
>>81888621
>Because the creator and his/her work are the same
you are either being sarcastic or a really sheltered retard
>>81888592
>I like his writing, but he seems like a petty person based on his twitter. I understand blocking people who insult him, but he blocks followers even for the slightest criticism or suggestion. And wow, that MoS debate when he was butthurt over a journalist pointing out that there were AU versions of Superman before.
I went from lightly insulting him (which he took manfully) to blocking his RTs to finally unfollowing him after he whined about people disagreeing with him on Twitter. If you're going to use it as a fucking soapbox expect replies.
Oh, and his twitstorm about the iPad that got stolen after he left it in a taxi.
I will never dislike what he and Alex Ross did with Kingdom Come, but he has feet of clay like everyone else. I read Irredeemable here for nothing and I still want my money back.
>>81891312
But Irredeemable was good.
>>81888593
>It's a fact he smacked around Yoko, yeah.
Good
>>81888593
Absolute madman
>>81888768
>It's disappointing that he's such a nutcase when it comes to politics.
I vote the same way he does but I don't use Twitter to tell everyone what to do or how to live. Then again I grew up in Massachusetts where we learned how to mind our own fucking business about politics and religion… and he grew up in Alabama where that hasn't exactly taken root yet and he probably still thinks he's personally responsible for slavery.BAMMY
>>81888769
>Being mean to your team partners hurts the result
Go look up Gilbert and Sullivan. Also, you have never fucking once collaborated on a creative project so shut up
>>81888921
>I think he was extremely gracious to them for saying birthright was an influence
You're thinking of that question he was asked about whether he got paid jack shit for what was borrowed to which he explained "no, we're work for hire and we're lucky to be credited."
He went on to say he was flattered that they chose Man of Vegan as the template for movie Clark's origin.
>>81888048
>Nothing short of carte blanche on a title would bring Waid back.
Harras leaving would be what is needed.
>>81889587
>What about blogger Vegan Superman who can read auras?
What about you go fuck yourself
>>81891358
Irredeemable had a good ENDING, which didn't justify the amount of filler and edge it was made of. The most it did was prove his editorial point that while he and Morrison have traditionally been viewed as polar opposites, they can easily play each others' roles (silver age traditionalist v. deconstructionist) but that speaks more to the number of times they've worked together behind the scenes (e.g. taking turns ghosting for Mark Millar).
>>81891649
>Harras and the rest of the 90s Marvel Failure Squad being violently murdered would be what DC needs
>>81889055
joe kelly's JLA is superior to waid
even waid admitted his was wasted potential
>>81891744
>Irredeemable had a good ENDING, which didn't justify the amount of filler and edge it was made of
There was no filler and a "superman turns evil" story is bound to have edge. Seems that you're biased against Waid.
I think he needs to step his game up before Nick Spencer assumes his form completely
>a great balance of accessible storytelling with strong continuity on Big Two work
>utterly insufferable on twitter when it comes to political opinions and company wars
>>81888555
I thought he spoke very negatively about Man of Steel? Or did that come later?
>>81888178
That's an awful story. Victims of school shootings are so miserable they're begging to be killed?
>>81889216
>never really made it
he made bank off of ben 10, which is closer to mainstream success than grant morrison has ever been
>>81887952
What is better kingdom come
>>81892462
Action 775
>>81888178
>>81888048
>Irony being they adapted Ellis' Red into two movies, when he hates their guts.
>He hates pretty much their entire editorial staff. His words were something to the effect of "I will not work for them again unless everyone currently working for them now is fired"
Source or GTFO
I've never heard him ripping apart DC editorial other than whoever it was that threatened to take Cassaday off Planetary. There were some other editors that he despised both at Marvel and DC but not the entire editorial. Shit, he even had nice things to say about Bob Harras.
>>81888646
But he did watch Superman II back when it was released and didn't like what happened to the villains back then. It was even on twitter.
Are you just making shit up now because you have nothing of value to say?
>>81892066
Is Spencer just as bad?
I like a lot of his books and was looking forward to his Black Widow run, but unfortunately I just can't read it without cringing.
>>81893112
Yes. He shills Hillary hard and cried about DC double shipping because they only do it to make money while *Marvel* does it to subsidize lower selling books.
>>81893112
he's a clinton supporter and pretty obnoxious about it
>>81887822
Mediocre.
>>81893249
>cried about DC double shipping because they only do it to make money while *Marvel* does it to subsidize lower selling books.
Don't forget that DC never gets low selling obscure books a chance while marvel obviously does
>>81887822
He's pretty cool.
>>81888555
>The recent SJW strawmen he's added to his comics
what strawman?
Hell, if anything his Oiriginal Sin Daredevil story was the antithesis of internet psudo-feminists\sjw
>>81887822
Decent writer way past his prime who's kind of full of himself
He's usually an alright writer, who has unfortunately become an obnoxious busy boy who always has to try and get the last word in, and generally comes off as desperately trying to be a "voice of the industry".
He's a worse version of Kurt Busiek who I think is just pretty average to begin with.
>>81894011
In the recent Avengers comic, he's got two white male bystanders going "a black Captain America and a female Thor??? What happened to our favorites?"
>>81888592
>And wow, that MoS debate when he was butthurt over a journalist pointing out that there were AU versions of Superman before.
I'm sorry but I'd be pissed at that reporter too. A film isn't the platform to give a generation an Elseworlds Superman. Movies are much more consumed than comics and are definitive pieces of work whether people admit it or not. Most casuals will not pick up a comic fucking ever. You want the audience to see the very best Superman material and finally understand what fans have loved about him despite his brand being ass for 30 plus years, not showcase shit material and want an excuse because there are AU's a handful of nerds know about in comparison to millions comprising the movie audience.
>>81896536
But that's exactly how /co/and white men fucking reacted.
>>81896536
...that's just making fun of "not muh" reactions.
Kingdom Come is a classic.
>>81896706
I get your point, and I would've accepted the same from him if that was how he explained it, instead of calling the journalist a moron and blocking him. When an anon on /co/ can better express his opinion than a professional writer, you can't help but question the latter.
>>81896706
Maybe the brand was ass because it tried being true to the comics?
>>81896425
Evidence?
Pretty good.
Can't write Hulk for shit, though.
