Why do many writers prefer Superman to Batman?
Most comic readers prefer Batman to Superman. But, contrary to reader's trend, there are many important writers who prefer Superman to Batman. For example, Alan Moore loves Superman. Grant Morrison is cultist of Superman. Mark Waid, Garth Ennis, Mark Millar, Dan Slott,etc.
Why do top writers prefer Superman to Batman? What made them love Superman?
What do you think about it?
Superman is more emblematic of the entertainment from their youth.
>>81871998
Because they are adults not edgy teens or children with no concept of principles.
Tom Taylor put it pretty well
Its easy to write an angsty character, its hard to write an inspiring character
>>81871998
I thought Alan Moore hates all superheroes.
Grant Morrison loves both, but he's gone on record saying Batman is better.
Superman is the only superhero Ennis likes, so there's that.
The rest of them, I have no idea, but it doesn't surprise me that Waid would prefer Superman.
Anyway, I can't really answer this question, because I don't know if the premise is true. We'd have to do a poll of writers and readers to see if there really is a difference between how much they prefer either hero. This is pretty anecdotal evidence to go on.
>>81871998
Because Batman is literally just inverse Superman.
>>81871998
Well Garth Ennis' reasons are pretty clear in Hitman and i think other European writers like him for similar reasons. He's the ultimate immigrant, he came to Earth ( America) without a home to go back to ( war-torn Europe). Sometimes he does struggle with the idea of a home he'll never truly know, but he loves and embraces the land that took him in
>>81872174
The problem is a lot of people you ask are just going to say Superman is boring lol
>>81872174
>I thought Alan Moore hates all superheroes
You shouldn't listen to the Moore hate threads, it's mostly bitter fanboys. He likes Silver Age Superman stuff along with Kirby and Ditko's work at Marvel, DC, and Charleton. And he likes Hellboy, Madman, and The Maxx
> Superman is the only superhero Ennis likes, so there's that.
He also like Spider-Man and I think Wonder Woman
Batman is probably pretty boring to write and hard to convince editors to let you try doing/exploring something new that hasn't been done before because he's always in Gotham, rarely goes against new villains, and has to always be crossing over with and involving the rest of the Batfamily.
Superman is easier to try new shit with because he tends to face off against much more cosmic and multidimensional shit all the time. Easier to experiment with new ideas.
>>81871998
Superman can have fun adventures while exploring ideas like
>what does it mean to be human?
>am I doing the right thing?
>what is life really about?
>can I be a better person?
And you can fly Superman through a black hole to fight aliens if you want. He can do anything.
>>81872174
If you have read supergods and All Star Superman, you will know how Morrison deeply respects and loves Superman.
Is it true that Morrison go on saying he prefers Batman to Superman?
>>81871998
I think you (and I'm sure a lot of other posters in this thread) are just projecting your own likes and dislikes onto other people (in this case, comic book writers). Unless you can provide actual evidence that any of those writers said any of that shit, I'm calling malarkey on you young man. A character is only ever as good or as bad as he or she is written by the writer. Most people eventually get past thinking one character is inherently "better" than the other and arrive at the realization that they're just different. You can write an inspiring Batman story just like you can write an inspiring Superman story. You can write an angsty Superman story just like you can write an angsty Batman story. It's all about what the writer brings to the table.
>>81872277
>You shouldn't listen to the Moore hate threads, it's mostly bitter fanboys. He likes Silver Age Superman stuff along with Kirby and Ditko's work at Marvel, DC, and Charleton. And he likes Hellboy, Madman, and The Maxx
I thought he said that old superhero comics were fine insofar as they were good entertainment for children of the '50s, but that he doesn't think adults should like them and doesn't think they are relevant anymore and pretty much they should just die. I think he's also said that he hasn't really thought much about superheroes since being a teenager, despite getting jobs writing them sometimes.
I can see why he might not hate third-company super-characters to the same extent as DC/Marvel stuff. Most of his justifications for hating superheroes on principle seem like post-hoc rationalizations of his anger toward the Big Two (which is an understandable anger, because they fucked him up the ass, and I don't begrudge him for being bitter)
I think many top writers respect Superman. I was suprised that even Dan Slott who is marvel writer, complains about MOS and BvS.
why?
>>81872713
>Superman is very bright and optimistic. It’s all the simple things. He’s of the day and of the sunlight, and Batman is the creature of the night. I’m interested in the fact that they both believe in the same kind of things. But Batman is better. He’s screwed up. That what makes him cool. Even though he’s solved all his problems in his own head he is — as I see him — a man with a very dark sense of humor and a very dark view of the world. He has to overcome that constantly. He’s forever fighting to make the world better, which means it’s never good for Batman. The rest of us have good days. We don’t fight everyday. Batman fights every single day. He has that dark Plutonian side.
>>81872805
Marvel writers are whiny faggots who can and will complain about everything. I don't know if DC has a code of ethics that tells their employees not to run their mouths on twitter or if Marvel encourages their employees to be annoying on social media, but there's a night and day difference between how much shit-talking writers/artists from each company do.
>>81872861
>Of course. He’s got everything. I like that. He’s our kind of dream of the aristocrat. He’s even better than the Tony Stark/Iron Man thing; he’s got that as well as the dark side. That’s the difference between Superman and Batman. There both interesting to write, but Batman is the sexier one, definitely.
http://herocomplex.latimes.com/comics/batman-versus-superman-as-class-warfare-bruce-has-a-butler-clark-has-a-boss/
>>81872723
I am OP, and,i don't hate Batman.
I only wonder why many writers seem to so respect Superman, contrary to reader's trend that Superman is boring.
>>81871998
>Why do many writers prefer Superman to Batman?
>Most comic readers prefer Batman to Superman.
Most readers are children/manchildren, and comic writers are adults.
Simple as that.
>>81872174
He said that Batman was a "sexier character" to write. I don't know if he's seen Henry Cavill in costume or not but it is what it is.
>>81872909
I think it is only how Morrison interpreted their difference.
It is not about that Morrison prefers Batman to Superman.
>>81872805
>>81872905
Yeah, guys like Slott and Brevoort seem to like throwing shade at DC, but you never hear DC guys talk shit about Marvel.
It's funny, because when it comes to the adaptation side of things, it's reverses. If you ask guys like Feige about DC films, he's like "yeah, I'm happy superhero films are becoming more popular in general! I mean, the average person doesn't know the difference between Marvel and DC, you hear them asking when Batman will be in the Avengers!"
Ask Snyder about Marvel Studios, and he's like "Ant-Man? What's next, Blank-Man? Top kek flavour-of-the-week nobody superheroes, we got LEGENDS, man, Batman and Superman TRANSCEND your silly shit." This his film goes on to be panned while people actually like Ant-Man and the one about the talking space raccoon.
>>81871998
Superman stories lend themselves well to being more character driven. Batman stories can be to, don't get me wrong, but Superman's power level necessitates it a bit unless he's fighting someone like Zod.
I just think superman is an interesting character in the fact that, he is literally a god that can still be beaten. He is literally the embodiment of infinity. It pushes writers to think of what is the most amazing thing we can make this guy do? Superman has pulled entire planets, lifted a book with infinite pages, taken supernovas to the face, what else is there? So it challenges writers to come up with something even more amazing and creative.
Batman however still has limitations, but he is an expert in tactics and planning, and exploiting others weaknesses. He has a lot of money that can do mostly anything he wants. I kind of understand that batman has the more interesting character, but superman really would push a writer to expand their creativity, for fucks sake, his heat vision could literally blow up an entire planet, or melt someone's brain on a molecular level. What else is there for superman?
Is it only because Superman is the first Superhero that many writers respect and love him?
I like Superman, but, i don't know why and how he attracts many writers.He has been bashed as boring or outdated or even self-righteous by many people.
So, i created this thread to hear your opinion.
>>81872927
I didn't mean to imply that you hated Batman. I think a lot of people that don't dive deep into Superman's catalog of stories think he's "boring" because on the surface he seems invincible and always a force of ultimate, objective good. People who get past the first metaphorical page of his story realize there's a lot more to the character, and that his stories aren't about physical triumphs.
In the first place, is it really true writers prefer Superman to Batman?
>>81873491
Nope.
>>81873101
What do you mean?
>>81873538
Reason?
Do you think writers prefer Batman to Superman?
Does Alan Moore hate even Superman?
>>81873798
Nah
>>81873154
What are they about?
>>81873880
I thought Supreme is love letter to Superman.
>>81873752
Your attempts to salvage this thread are commendable, but the whole premise of the thread is flawed. Let it die.
>>81872149
/thread
Waid threw a fit when some random twitter user told him he "didn't understand Superman's character"
>>81873881
What does it mean to be a hero? What does it mean to be human? How far should we be willing to go to protect our own values?
I dunno man, go read some if you really want to know.
>>81873881
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aw_GlYve_Lg
>>81874038
>Trying to get someone into Superman with Max Landis
Jesus Christ
>>81871998
Funny how you leave people like gaiman and o'neil out and include dan slott
>>81874054
IlikeAmerican Alien.
I personally prefer Superman to Batman but I personally see Superman as the harder character to write for (which appears to be the contrary opinion to many people in this thread).
Because of Superman's amazing abilities, having him respond accordingly to threats is always going to be a mixed bag because Superman is possibly at his strongest in the current DC Universe than he's ever been (except for recent events in which he's dying--I don't think it will stick). Superman can overcome most super threats that would trouble most heroes. You you are either forced to come up with a story with a more personal tone (having to dig deep as a writer), or your forced to create something new. A threat or force that is beyond the scope of most heroes that requires the efforts of Superman.
It's for the reasons mentioned above that the DC Animated Universe version of Supes is one of my personal favorites. He retains most of Supes abilities albeit significantly depowered. While on the surface this may have seemed like a bad thing, but his nerfed powers allowed for Supes to take part in more spectacle brawling (War World) while the ultimately human nature of Superman and his personality allowed for fantastic interactions between characters that broke new ground (the episode where Supes pals around with Vandal Savage). The challenge of writing Supes correctly brings out the best in writers.
>>81874132
I didn't know Gaiman or O'neil love Superman.
Is it true?
>>81874038
>mispronouncing mxyzptlk
opinion disregarded
>>81871998
JMS also loves Superman
>>81872713
If I'm not mistaken he has said that his favourite superheroes are superman and Cyclops
>>81872713
Morrison is trying his hardest to make Superman real.
>>81871998
Lets say you're told you can write a Batman story or a Superman story.
A standalone that DC will publish.
I'd rather go for Superman because I think there are already more good batman stories than good superman stories.
I also think writing a Batman story is by the by a lot easier because hes just a guy in a bat costume with gizmos.
Writing a good superman comic is harder because hes so Gary Stu.
I'd like to think I'd have a pretty original take on superman but I think most people would hate it.
My ideal superman is a defined superman.
He has limits and he has to think up ways to circumvent his limits in ingenious ways to create captivating conflict resolution in place of your average slack-jawed idiot who borderline writes
>And then superman tried harder when before he wasn't trying as hard.
That and probably focus more on his alter ego's problems.
>>81874346
>his favourite superheroes are superman and Cyclops
For good reason, considering they're the best superheroes at DC and Marvel respectively.
>>81872805
If you write cape comics then it's kind of hard NOT to have a respect for Superman. It's fucking Superman. I don't see how you can like superheroes and not like Superman.
He is THE archetype.
>>81872149
Mi negro
/thread
Why does Alan Moore love Superman?
His story telling and nihilism is almost opposite of Superman's optimism.
>>81871998
I thought it was the opposite. DC writers hate Superman and love Batman
>>81876526
At least, Morrison and Geoff will say no.
Morrison is not DC writer anymore though.
>>81872174
He never said Batman was better, he said he understands why he is more popular. He's sexier, he's James Bond. That's cool and all.
Have /co read Supergods which is book written by Grant Morrison?
Who was the writer that despises batman and made him shit his pants
>>81877280
Yeah.
>>81876526
Is just OP being a retard.
>>81876195
Superman gives even a man as consumed by the pit of despair a light to long for.
>>81876526
That's just what delusional batfags tell themselves.
>>81872102
/thread
>>81877549
I think it clearly shows how Morrison loves and respects Superman.
It is almost cult book which worship Superman as some sort of deity.
What do you think?
>>81876779
I know Morrison isn't DC-exclusive (he's been doing stuff for Image and Legendary), but I thought he still does DC stuff. Doesn't he have Multiversity 2 coming out?
>>81876195
Moore seems far from a nihilist to me.
He seems to believe in dualism and meaning to life and seems pretty optimistic about youth culture and the internet decentralizing traditional power structures.
>>81874618
I think one thing that makes writing Superman difficult is that if you write him too pure, people will say it's boring, but if you give him any flaws at all, people will scream "SUPERMAN WOULD NEVER DO THAT"
>And then superman tried harder when before he wasn't trying as hard.
This so much. So many Superman stories have him beat down by kryptonite or some heavy hitter, and then the way he wins is by, like, believing in himself and just getting up and fighting through it anyway through sheer force of will. Better stories will always have a reason why a conflict changed direction and was resolved, it won't just be "he tried a little bit harder."
People talk about Silver Age Superman being boring because he was "too powerful." Thing about SA Supes, tho, is that since it was a given he was stronger than anybody, very few of his stories were about fist fights. It was villains challenging him in creative ways, and Superman having to outthink them. Nobody was stupid enough to get into a punching contest with him.
Then they depowered him, and every other issue was a brawl. He fights Metallo. He fights Draaga. He even fights fucking Brainiac, whose whole thing is supposed to be being smart, not just another brawler.
>>81871998
Superman is just more fun to write
>>81873017
Yeah but Marvel also has assholes like the guy playing Falcon. Easily the most obnoxious actor working in cape films
>>81878178
>And then superman tried harder when before he wasn't trying as hard.
Funnily enough this also works for Batman
>>81872174
>Superman is the only superhero Ennis likes
He also likes Miller's Daredevil.
>>81872174
>Grant Morrison loves both, but he's gone on record saying Batman is better.
Gonna need that sauce, champ.
>>81871998
Superman is harder to write, so they appreciate the challenge.
>>81879802
He likes Batman more as a writter, but he is a bigger superman fan.
(and thats the smart answer), there's a reason we never of a legends of the man of tomorrow
>>81879580
I agreed with every word Anthony said about MOS. You do have shit taste if you like it. Someone needed to say it.
>>81880098
Holy shit, I just googled this. Even if you agree with him here, he's just being a dick to the interviewer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yP6LkvXN5LY
>>81878178
>People talk about Silver Age Superman being boring because he was "too powerful." Thing about SA Supes, tho, is that since it was a given he was stronger than anybody, very few of his stories were about fist fights. It was villains challenging him in creative ways, and Superman having to outthink them. Nobody was stupid enough to get into a punching contest with him.
>Then they depowered him, and every other issue was a brawl. He fights Metallo. He fights Draaga. He even fights fucking Brainiac, whose whole thing is supposed to be being smart, not just another brawler.
You fucking know what's up.
>>81871998
Eh it's a couple of dozen recent writers over the course of 75 years.
I could easily say Synder, Tynion, Seeley, King, Dixon, Dini, Timm, so on etc...... For Batman over Superman.
>>81873983
Kek.
>>81880201
>he's just being a dick to the interviewer.
I've watched so many interviews beating their chests to MOS, some for extremely asinine reasons, that this was extremely satisfying and I don't feel for the interviewer at all. Again, someone needed to say it and with how people defend the film, it needed to be said like this. I'm just a bitter supesfag though.
>>81874213
Superman is harder to writer than Batman.
It's why there is literally decades of OK Batman stories and volumes of just absolute shit Superman books.
There hasn't been a good Superman story in the main Superman comic since Geoff left the book 8 years ago.
>>81880374
What's "good" to you? If Morrison's AC run isn't in it, you have pretty shit taste and deserve the misery that you're suffering.
>>81880296
Aren't they below member of OP?
Besides Dan Slott, they are top writers of top tier.
>>81880098
It's not just that. He talks over everybody all the time and shouts all the time in cast interviews
>>81872312
Too bad no one tries new shit with superman OR batman
>>81880500
That's literally the first and only interview I seen with the guy. I didn't know he was consistently obnoxious. Kinda sucks.
>>81880427
Not if you include Gaiman, O'neil and ditko as people that likes Batman more.
>>81872968
>I don't know if he's seen Henry Cavill in costume or not but it is what it is.
If I saw Henry in the costume and Ben in his, I'd choose Ben every time.
>>81880691
And, Frank Millar.
>>81877921
I think Morrison quite literally worships Superman as some sort of deity, yes.
>>81880975
IT'S REEEEEAAAL
>>81880201
Holy shit it was just banter, the interviewer didn't seem the least bit offended
>>81877289
Kevin Smith had Batman piss his pants, and does not despise him
>>81872149
Why is there anything after this response?
>>81872758
>I think he's also said that he hasn't really thought much about superheroes since being a teenager, despite getting jobs writing them sometimes.
I only think that's the case in the sense that he didn't go and read Superman or Fantastic Four throughout his entire life. But I'm not sold about his complaining about adults enjoying superheroes or his distancing just because he doesn't like it.
>I can see why he might not hate third-company super-characters to the same extent as DC/Marvel stuff. Most of his justifications for hating superheroes on principle seem like post-hoc rationalizations of his anger toward the Big Two (which is an understandable anger, because they fucked him up the ass, and I don't begrudge him for being bitter)
That's what I'm thinking, too. It feels more like a reaction to all the bad things that happened to him because of the comics industry as opposed to superheroes themselves.
>>81880691
>and ditko
You know, I haven't heard about which characters Ditko prefers. Where'd you hear it from? I remember that the window for the Dr. Strange's sanctum is supposed to be based on the window of The Spirit's hideaway.
>>81872905
Simone makes up for all of DC. She talks nothing but shit.
>>81872174
>>81872277
>>81872758
Also, if you go by what Millar says here, he claims that Moore said he wasn't much of a fan of Batman and preferred to structure the stories around the villain (this is actually pretty much the case; if you notice his Superman stories really were centered around Superman's character while one Batman story was really more about Clayface and Killing Joker was more about Joker. On top of that, Supreme is practically Silver Age Superman but modernized)
After all,Alan Moore isn't interested in Superman at all, right?
So, OP's statement about Moore is wrong, isn't it?
>>81883753
>After all,Alan Moore isn't interested in Superman at all, right?
Depends on what you mean. He probably didn't read every single issue of it from childhood to adulthood, but he was probably more fond of Superman than Batman if >>81883564 and Moore's track record is anything to go by.
>>81871998
superman has the potential to become a god to us and writers have god complexes when they're not being hounded by their Jew overlords to do what the other guy's doing
>>81883794
He must have read Superman at least in childhood.
>>81883537
How many books is she on in Rebirth?
