Part 1 here >>81810298 as it is getting near 500 posts by the time of this thread's creation.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2016-04-13/animaniacs-freakazoid-producer-credits-pokemon-for-wb-cartoon-decline/.101008
>Producer, director, and animator Tom Ruegger held an Ask Me Anything (AMA) on Reddit on Tuesday where the Animaniacs creator answered fan questions to celebrate the show's move on to Netflix.
>User "aznprd" asked what led to the decline of Warner Bros. cartoons, like Freakazoid, Animaniacs, Pinky and the Brain, and Tiny Toon Adventures. Ruegger responded that it was the advent of Pokémon.
>According to Ruegger, the Kids WB programming block struck a deal with 4Kids Productions to air Pokémon that was so cheap and, followed by the show's huge popularity, that they no longer wanted to to spend the money on programming.
>"Kids WB was handed Pokémon for free and it pulled down big numbers -- so then they wanted everything for free."
oh wow
>>81828081
>"Kids WB was handed Pokémon for free and it pulled down big numbers -- so then they wanted everything for free."
He acts like Pokemon was cheaply made.
What did they expect? Pokemon was fucking huge at this point in time. Toys, games, cards, the movie merch at BK. It was one of the biggest 90s things in the west.
Kids back then didn't see it as anime, but compared to WB stuff is felt a lot more "mature". How can anyone be surprised that something they got for nearly free, that dominates ratings, pushes out the other expensive stuff?
As a kid, once I got hooked on the Pokemon fad like every other kid in my class, I considered all the shit like Animaniacs as kiddie dogshit that was wasting airspace that Pokemon could have been on, and all the other kids felt the same.
>>81828287
At the time it was, OLM's staff as well as the voice crew did get payed more later on as expected but kiddy fuller anime always cheaper then otaku bate hence why theres more otaku bate shows then kiddy fuller shows now of days.
>>81828336
>Only wanting Pokemon
>Not wanting Pokemon in addition to everything you enjoyed before
I would punch your child self in the face
>>81828081
>network gets one of the biggest cartoon hits of the decade for almost free
>it performs like a big hit
>WHY DIDNT THE NETWORK WANT OUR EXPENSIVE SLAPSTICK SHOWS ANYMORE
I don't have anything against WB shows, but they didn't stand a chance against the Pokemon craze
>>81828413
Look, I know better now. But Pokemon fever dominated millions of kids
>>81828413
It was our gen's TMNT.
Still WB/TMS should of never jump ship to Kids WB.
>>81828530
Millions?!? More like billions.
>>81828081
God damn, imagine if this franchise actually succeeded in the West and ended up becoming the next "Pokémon" for the current generation of little kids
>>81828636
To many cultural reference to get the universal audience Pokemon had.
>>81828636
>>81828717
It's doing very well on Nexflix.
Animaniacs is still doing better then it and thats a older show.
>>81828454
Well it didn't just help kill the slapstick, also their own action stuff. Budgets of 00s and 10s cartoons don't look anywhere near the budgets of 90s cartoons regardless of genre.
>>81828636
Eh, its too cute to really match pokemon
Pokemon has the first evolution for cute things, and then later evolutions for "badass" factor. Yokai really just stays cute and thus limits it's "boy" appeal
At least, thats my take on it.
Also pokemon is still fucking huge so its not like its going to push it out by itself
Like what Pokemon brought with it:
>Cool designs for their Pokemon(the kids loved that)
>Had a set goal in mind with wanting to be a Pokemon master with story to tell.
>The music in the dub was good.
>It had a fuckton of merchandise.
>Had the game series it was based on.
It had everything going for it. Those other shows couldn't even compare.
>>81828081
It's the Walmart strategy. Enter a new market and supply for dirt cheap and clear out the competition when they can't compete. Fuckin japs man. First our shows then our automobiles.
>>81828636
that thing is way past their time frame to get to pokemon levels, it may get a bit more popular over time but i'm sure they are at the near top of their success.
>>81828868
>>Had a set goal in mind with wanting to be a Pokemon master with story to tell.
this
It gave people a reason to come back
Who will be the next gym leader? What pokemon will he catch next? Simple questions, but they make it much more engaging than episodic comedies
>>81828868
Don't forget the cards, those were all the rage
Who still has their complete collection of the 3 original sets?
>>81828636
We have internet and IPhone whatever the fuck now. Pokemon came in a time where everything was a little simple. If this show existed in Pokemon's place it probably would have been huge too.
>>81828868
Also Pokemon did no treat it's audience like retards.
>>81828336
>>81828081
There's one thing I'm trying to wrap my head around: why did The Pokémon franchise appeal to a lot of kids at the time better than all the other shows did? What was that one element or many that made it so grande and awesome to billions of viewers in the West?even though I find that Pokémon has many flaws of its own
>>81828946
>Those episodes where Ash lost against a gym leader.
We would all lose our shit.
>>81829017Nintendo
>Dragon Quest Monsters never had a chance to succeed.
Neither did Medabots, Robopon, Monster Rancher and the many other monster-catching series from the early 00s.
>>81828980
>Also Pokemon did no treat it's audience like retards.
Pretty sure it did, you just didn't notice.
>>81828825
Also it's theme song screams that the show was made only for little kids only.
Pokemon gets "HIROKAZU FUCKING TANAKA" for it's image songs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqyKZ36jYv4
If Pokemon is so popular, why doesn't Jessie have better rule 34?
>>81829133
Everything with monsters in it was called a Pokemon ripoff by kids. Remember when kids used to get into arguments with that shit with Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon?
>>81829017
Good simplistic games with a lot of content, both card and gameboy (having two versions and multiple choices in them helped make divisions in fans that sparked debate and free advertisement)
And while the games were kind of like the show, they we're different enough to make each play-through a unique role-playing experience for a child's imagination
>>81829194
because we can't have nice things
yeah it's clearly pokémon's fault, and not the fact animaniac shorts were 80% crap and Hysteria was a pile of shit.
>>81829017
that's really simple pokemon was at the time an engaging game that was dirt cheap compared to other titles, one you could play on dated hardware without much trouble making it even more accessible. the game's sucess led to a transformers approach where they could make a show to gain popularity, since the game took off those who played gave it a chance and those who knew people with the game aswell due to massification of popularity the rest followed the mass then came the cards and other assorted miscelanea but in a nutshell pokemon took off because it was something not only new but affordable.
>>81829244
But I want nice things!
>>81829194
Good question
>>81829139
>>81828980
Pokemon was always formulaic and cutesy for a general audience.
Literally 98% of Pokemon episodes are
>Ash and co are travelling and meet a new Pokemon/character of the day
>Team Rocket notices the new Pokemon/character of the day
>try to steal character of the day and/or Pikachu
>Pikachu uses Thunderbolt
>LOOKS LIKE TEAM ROCKET IS BLASTING OFF AGAIN
>end episode
>>81829017
It told the story of the game. The game was you, a kid, goes on a journey with your pokemon. The show was Ash's journey, so you got more detail of what it was like waking up snorlax, or catching a haunter, or fighting that gym leader. It followed the game pretty closely too. Very similar journey, even if there were "errors" or changes. That never happened before. I don't think a TV show had ever been an adaptation of something so directly. Game of thrones is a huge hit and follows the books closely, but that's after the fact.
>>81829306
But the kids didn't pay attention to that.
>>81829133
Monster Rancher 1-3 are some of the greatest games ever made.
>>81829194
Newgrounds produced some, I think.
>>81829194
The main focus is on the lolis, there was so much loli porn that Junichi Masuda aged up the characters starting with Black & White so that the porn won't be as creepy to the staff.
>>81829253
Animaniacs aired for an entire hour from 1995-97. You may not like it, but that wouldn't have been the case if hardly anyone was watching it.
>>81829224
>Remember when kids used to get into arguments with that shit with Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon?
No because every "argument" ended right at the start with "Charizard can just burn the cards"
>>81829312
>I don't think a TV show had ever been an adaptation of something so directly
You kidding me? Anime does that with mangas and such all the time
>>81829426
They mean for the American child audience at the time.
>>81829426
Theres barely any anime originals or anime that is very far apart from it's source in this day of age, it's sad
>>81829306
You like to pretend nothing happened in between the Team Rocket shit.
Like when Ash and the others tried to solve the mystery of a lighthouse that was haunted by ghost pokemons or when ash got to see a humongous dragonite or the little arcs pokemons like Butterfree and Primeape, etc.
It wasn't until Jotho when that formula became the only thing they did.
>>81829416
I thought the arguments ended with "Well, Pokemon are real though! Not cards!"
>>81829467
Isn't that a good thing?
>>81829266
>affordable and accessible
But other western cartoons didn't even require a single penny in order to be watched. What's up with that?
>>81829407
>that wouldn't have been the case if hardly anyone was watching it.
yet it got cancelled. Because nobody liked it.
>>81829426
>anime
>manga
please, tell me before 1998 which popular manga turned into an anime were americans thrilled to see happen?
>>81829524
Being physically invested in something is a huge part of making it stick
>>81829472
Same shit, different way of saying it.
>>81829512
No. The US gets to have original ideas like Rick And Morty but Japan is almost nothing but adaptions.
At least with Hamtaro they added in a original Idea on top of a adaption.
>>81829534
All shows run their course. They produced new episodes from 1993-1998 with reruns airing until 2000, which was a pretty good run. Most cartoons aren't seemingly never-ending like the Simpsons, Spongebob, or Fairy Oddparents.
>>81829133
Digimon had a nice run
>>81829512
No.
1. Because it implies anime's only function is to advertise manga and merchandise.
and
2. Because anime adaptations of manga are always boring and horribly paced.
>>81829133
>Robopon
We would not be ready for them titties
>>81829675
Not Laura & Kana.
>>81829643
They have originals. Trigger/Gainax and Shinichirō Watanabe comes to mind.
>>81829133
Anyone remember Dual Masters?
>>81829675
>1. Because it implies anime's only function is to advertise manga and merchandise.
Merch is the point, or at least, a goal, in commercial animation. The trick is making it good while working within those parameters. And Manga is just a way to poach already tested ideas and visual styles
>2. Because anime adaptations of manga are always boring and horribly paced.
This is true for most. I was surprised by OPM being so well paced (though still a bit slow because of japanese writing styles)
>>81829742
But not alot of them.
>>81828636
I don't get why anyone thought this would reach Pokemon levels in the west. Pokemon has universal appeal, Yokai Watch is way too Japanese and doesn't really have any "cool" monsters to appeal to those who don't like the cute or weird ones.
>>81829675
>1
Might as well be, most of the profit in that industry comes from merchandise, disc sales keep getting lower while plastic crap sales keep increasing
>2
Sure but nothing saves originals from being just as bad
>>81829194
Because the original manga artist beat everyone else to it.
>>81830092
They also make at least 100 yen/$1 per every viewer the show gets on it's broadcast as well.
That does help.
>>81830092
Originals are generally faster since they're at least written for the medium. They always have better action scenes for example.
>>81829377
>Claims to age up characters
>Creates this
>>81829775
Only for big tit loli.
>>81829426
But I always feel like there's a lot more contentto adapt for the 13 to 30 year Olds between manga, video games, light novels, visual novels, older anime, arcade machines, game shows, cult movies plinko machines, urban legends, rural legends, Internet legends, cartography legends, pop bands, major religions, minor religions, and rodents
>>81830379
That is not a playable trainer.
>>81830379
But fine ass Hilda
>>81830650
True, but her ass is better.
Did Misty stay flat forever?
>>81829194
Because her hair ruins her.
Sabrina and Flannery are the ones that need more R34
>>81830761
No.
https://rule34.paheal.net/post/view/1846664
>>81829133
Digimon had a good run, and the new game at least gave it a little bit of a nostalgic revival
Medabots is still chugging along in Japan at least. Maybe one of them will see an English release again one day.
Monster Rancher at least gave us a couple of great games before it disappeared into the night, and the theme song for the show is still top tier.
But I will confess that I have no idea what the fuck a Robopon is. Even looking it up on Google it's not ringing any bells.
>>81829775
I collected a few of the cards. Had a pretty good Black/White deck.
The show was kind of trash, and the dub was filled up with bizarre pop culture references and 4th wall breaking jokes.
>>81830967
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robopon_Sun,_Star,_and_Moon_Versions
>>81830967
I don't think it had an anime, they were just game boy games.
Pretty fun ones too, one of the better Pokeclones.
>>81831109
Hudson made them.
>RIP Hudson, I still miss Bomberman.
>>81829775
Anyone remember BAKUGAN BATTLE BRAWLERS™?
>>81831369
>remember
Maybe if you are underage
>>81831369
You mean that shit that came on CN way too early in the morning for anyone to see it?
>>81831369
The less we talk about that the better.
TMS ditched most of that show off to Korea for a reason.
>>81831369
My younger brother was soooooo into that show
All I remember is that the main character was voiced by Owen, the fat guy, from Total Drama Island
He's also Yang on Yin Yang Yo. Canadian voice actors suck.
>>81831402It came out in 2007Kids who were 10 when it aired are old enough to post here
>>81831369
Yes
>>81831485
Even the porn could not save it.
Now Kirby is where it's at.
>>81831369
The theme song was so bad it became an inside joke among me and my friends. TWO WORLDS COLLIDE! ON THE INSIDE! One of those all-time-classic bad Americanized themes along with Yu-Gi-Oh 5D's and One Piece.
I don't know if I ever actually watched the show.
>>81831559
>He doesn't like the pirate rap
>>81831485
One of the best girls in any of these shows, even rivalling Misty.
>>81831592
Why do rap when you can have this instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pu91AyLe0gA
>>81831595
Laura Haruna put all of them to shame however.
>>81831369
UGH
>>81831780
Let me fix that for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dn2PWZOIQrk
man that feeling is never coming back is it
the feeling of there being this whole undiscovered world. a world of pokemon you cant just look up on the internet. a world of anime you cant just look up every single thing about (including porn) and immediately know it.. without having to have a friend describe it or something and try to find a tape. a world of new boners and new artistic styles that feed those boners.
>>81829194
Go on Pixiv
>>81831641
>Hamtaro was never fully dubbed or subbed
>several dubbed episodes are missing
Shame.
>>81834674
Yeah. I bought all kinds of reference books and magazines and shit because that was the only way to get the information I needed. Those were the days.
>>81831440
Maybe Toronto VA's but not Vancouvers.
>>81835484
that was a fantastic time to be a publishing company. you could publish any fucking bullshit and people would buy it. remember how many bullshit-ass pokemon books there were, that got tons of shit wrong? remember those like BECOME A REAL POKEMON MASTER vhs instructional videos?
>>81835583
When was the last time Ocean dubbed anything?
>>81835643
I'm pretty sure they were the ones who did LBX. I recall hearing that at least.
>>81828413
This. Northamericans are fucking retards with the attention span of a gnat.
>>81835643
they didnt stop dubbing DBZ just because funi took over in the states. they kept on going with the canadian cast, because canadian money. it's weird if you think about it.. you can go back and get a future version of the past..
>>81836023
hey i loved everything as a kid
but everything was anime and serious action shows. not a lot of dumb cartoons unless they were really funny, like pinky and the brain or ppg or shit like that.
>>81836044
I know about the Canadian dub, but it seems like they just dropped off the map in 2006. When was they last time you heard Kirby Morrow's voice?
>>81835602
>BECOME A REAL POKEMON MASTER vhs instructional videos
Holy shit, do I want to see that. Link?
>>81836136
i have no idea if anyone's put anything of or about it online, but holy shit it was in every store. like, hardware stores.
it had a kid on the front in a baseball cap holding a glowing purple sphere
>>81836168
http://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Master-Ultimate-Pokemon-Experience/dp/6305572135 here it's this. lemme see if i can find it online.. someone should have put it on youtube..
>>81831539
>that episode where they parody the creation process of anime in japan
>>81831780
More likeOONG GAGA ING GAGA
>>81836829
man there were a few weird anime like that where it's like.. why is this the one we got? fuck i dont care it's cute and weird and fun
this, mon colle knights, uhh...
>>81829194
Because pokemon brings out the pedos and furries first and foremost.
>>81837349
Flint was just Time Bokan with the numbers filed off.
>>81834674
Going to the internet and finding all those weird bullshit rumours about Pikablu, Togepi, the Pokegods and how to travel to the orange islands.
>>81836215
Can't found that one, but check this shit out.
>ywn have a giant fat nigga bro teaching you how to play Pokemon cards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGWPStEZToQ
>>81828530
doesnt matter you need to die
>>81831539
>tfw the robodog fucking died
Kirby did not pull it's punches.
>>81837847
I miss when they had attractive characters. Everything looks so weird now in the new style.
>>81831369
All I remember about that series is that the main rival, the one with the weird sunglasses,is actually the Orihime of the group.I thought it was a pretty cool twist. Too bad they did nothing with the concept.
>>81840067
this so fucking hard. for like, all anime.
Animaniacs wasn't good.
Too loud, the warners are unlikeable, and the pop culture references are painful.
Freakazoid's aged better.
>>81828868
Ash was a kid who had a fucking dragon he could summon at will to fight for him what fucking kid doesn't want that
>>81840313
Animaniacs is still better than Tiny Toons.
>>81840333
I think there's a pretty decent trade off on those two.
Animaniacs was fairly reliant on referential humor, but was clearly the better animated of the two.
Tiny Toons was much more focused towards children, but by keeping most of its jokes either original or in reference to Looney Tunes, it's aged much better./co/ exaggerates the fuck of the pop culture references in Animaniacs though, sure there are a lot but you can still get most of them. It actually suffered most from an over-reliance on historical references, if you ask me.
>>81840566
I dislike the skit format of animaniacs more than anything else.
I found a lot of the skit characters were unfunny.
>>81840620
The hippos were the worst I think, real one-note characters. At least you could play around with most of the other.
>>81828636
It's doing alright.
It's not the "le Pokyman killer" meme. But the kids like it well enough and the merch is selling, Disney treats it with enough dignity which is more than what I could I say about how CN is Pokemon at the moment
>>81840566
That Literally Me forced meme that took over the board for a while comes from a cartoon that's one big pop culture reference so they're selective about when it annoys them.
>>81840566
ehh i think it's almost reversed
tiny toons had the contemporary references. things no kid would get and no parent would care about. animaniacs had CLASSIC references. you'd almost call them historical. and when it was the modern day stuff, it felt like those old fish cartoons where they just parade out a bunch of celebrity parodies and it doesnt matter if you know who they are, it's funny anyway.
>>81831485
Julie a best
>>81828636
Ya know, I have no desire to watch the show or play the games, particularly since I barely like Pokemon anymore, but the girl in this is a cutie.
>>81829133
>mfw SMT of all things was the only series that caught on
>>81840712
Yeah that bothered me too, some people didn't even get that "Frankie" was a reference to Frank Sinatra.
>>81840726
I hear where you're coming from, but they kind of over-relied on it. I never really felt like Tiny Toons went over my head though, do you have any examples of something more obscure that they referenced?
>>81840911
We live in a good timeline after all
>>81829133
i always wanted a zelda 'mon'game. i have written down a bunch of shit, categorizing enemies, deciding what types and abilities they could have, what evolves into what... there are some gray areas though on what qualifies a monster and what a people-race..
>>81840911
Persona is not SMT.
>>81840939
well shit i didnt get ANYTHING they referenced in tiny toons. mainly because i wasnt into hip 90s bullshit. just how i was raised.
the only thing i recall getting was the batman stuff.
>>81841028
But it is though
>>81836094
>When was they last time you heard Kirby Morrow's voice?
Ninjago, and before that 00 Gundam.
>>81841044
http://tinytoons.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Parodies
Just going by this, it seems like most of them were things that really pervaded culture as a whole. I guess if you were isolated from that I could see it, but I really don't see how most of this is out of the scope of most kids/teens from that era.
>>81840778
See, the thing about Tiny Toons is that for every good short or short spoofing Hollywood, there was a crappy preachy one about the environment or another fucking pilot about Elmyra.
And that really weird one about, like, Russian fleas.
>>81841124
those are the parodies. those i usually got. i'm just talking about like.. "suddenly plucky and hamton are dressed like weird rap guys and rapping because okay whatever"
i didnt know if they were supposed to be prince or hammer or any of that shit
>>81841138
..... I could ask for context here, but I think I'm better off not doing so.
>>81841096
How's a dating game with some RPG sidequests an SMT game?
>>81841170
>That one episode Buster and friends got drunk and drove off a cliff
I wonder what the thought process behind that one actually was
>>81840911
Edgykids and waifufags have to play something.
>>81841170
Oh man that's true, that fucking alcohol episode. The one about the fleas was a play on An American Tale, or at least I thought it was.
>>81841191
Wait you mean they weren't just trying to be hip and with it? Well fuck, I guess that did go over my head if it was specific.
>>81841262
To mock "very special episodes".
It failed, since parents complained that it was making fun of drunk driving. It was therefore banned until The Hub played it in 2013.
>>81841239
what is SMT
>>81841270
oh maybe i'm wrong. it just came off really specific.
>>81829775
Duel Masters was always weird, still is, but do joke dubs ever work out? Metabots was okay with Niggabee, but that didn't last either.
Medabots still has games almost yearly, and Duel Masters is the only card game that can rival Yugioh in Japan, but they fizzled out just as quickly as they started in the West.
>>81831539
Kirby was one of the few times 4Kid's hack job actually didn't hurt the show that much.
Hell as a kid, I was just happy Kirby got an animated series"like Sonic"
>>81841138
Way too little fanservice of her, or in general, on the show. Or does the US dub cut all of it out?
>>81841319
The Duel Masters dub was brilliant. You know is good when it namedrops "the Grandpa Simpson routine".
Also, Mimi was hot.
>>81841319
>but do joke dubs ever work out?
Only joke dubs I can name off the top of my head is every dub cause they're all so shit it's funny.
>>81841319
Medarot still has games almost yearly?? jesus I wanna see these. i wanna know what they've come up with
>>81841414
Incredibly slutty female avatars.
>>81841303
Didn't feel much like satire thph
It was the one episode I never liked as a kid because it felt "off". I never even noticed it never aired again and thought I just imagined it.
Even re-watching it as an adult, it just doesn't mesh well with the rest of the series
>>81836687
>this shot is well animated!
>it's just a trick to fool you, they're just panning the camera while the characters talk.
>>81841414
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJQF-sOW5LQ
>>81841414
>i wanna know what they've come up with
It's still Metabee and Rokusho every year.
>>81841556
>>81841628
that's too bad. they set the lore up that like, there were upgrades released periodically, updating the popular models with new advanced versions.. like that one snot-nosed brat had a newmodel KBT
so just pumping out the same shit forever ruins that
>>81841940
They're just starters since the games are always have partswapping and have different mechanics each time. Medarot 9 had different starters.
>>81841359
I don't think she even got any fanservice until around episode 40. Last I checked the dub went on hiatus at 25 and won't return until around the summer with a chance of it being moved to CN
>>81840566
Animaniacs has its great moments.
The Goodfellas pigeons, the little flame telling Paul Revere's story, Slappy and that skeleton nigga who always got mauled and disarmed.
>>81842344
>with a chance of it being moved to CN
Oof, death sentence.
>>81842344
>with a chance of it being moved to CN
Fuck that noise
>>81842344
>with a chance of it being moved to CN
To be aired at 7am without any advertisement?
are you guys telling me pokemon hasnt been exclusively on CN for a long time now?
what, it's on the CW then?
>>81842651
Oh, it is. But CN doesn't acknowledge its existence.
Theres really no logical reason its still on, other than a huge fanbase that somehow remains despite lack of advertising.
>>81842651
It's on CN. Saturdays only. At 6 AM. With zero advertising.
>>81828081
two things that Pokemon anime ruined
-WB animated shows
-Pokemon games being perceived as a childish by western public
>>81831369
I remember the sluggy freelance parody. Bacongon.
...Is sluggy still going? Fuck it's been about 5 years since I last read it.
>>81842768
>Pokemon games being perceived as a childish by western public
But they are made for children.
>>81842768
>implying the public needed the anime to do that
>>81831369
Yu-Gi-Oh ripoff.
>>81842765
yeah that's what i thought. so >>81842344 was just wrong
>>81829643
Well at least they're doing a good adaptation now.
>>81828825
yokai isn't even popular anymore, once the game got released in the west that bubble burst, pokemon is still around and it will be around until nintendo collapses on itself, and even then one could say that it would still be around in some fashion.
>>81842344
What channel is it on now, again?
>>81842990
Disney XD I think.
>>81842873
There's nothing about that that comes off as immature compared to other RPGs. They typically are less childish then something like Mario and lack the whole "lets learn how to be friends" and "team rocket blasting off again" vibe of the anime. And gameplay wise, they have more depth that the vast majority of JRPGs.
>>81842918
>Yokai isn't popular in Japan
>Outsold TFA on it's opening weekend in JP
Kay
>>81843087
Better movie too
>>81843082
>And gameplay wise, they have more depth that the vast majority of JRPGs.
Pal, I like Pokemon too but let's not go overboard here.
>>81842918
even though nintendo fucks it up the ass pretty hard
>new pokemon look terrible
>we finally get pokken, a game we wanted since forever, and it's just a flashy stuttering mess featuring the worst roster choices
>the president of gamefreak said no pokemon snap sequels ever, despite two consoles in a row MADE for photography games, because 'japanese people aren't interested in photography'
>>81843035
>>81828081
an anon in the first thread said that another factor was that pokemon had a running storyline that was new for most of its young viewers. it was chronological and you needed to see the last episode before the next. Sure it was mostly superficial "Ash needs to go to the next gym" shit but still. Even great shows like BTAS had mostly stand alone episodes.
I remember as time went on more western shows implemented this. Both Justice League Unlimited and Teen Titans had episodes dedicated to season long arcs. As far as I can remember, it wasn't until Avatar that a show was completely dedicated to a full storyline,
>>81843148
Please, name something with a better battle system.
>>81843351
yeah i had a lot of trouble explaining to my parents about anime, saying "Every episode is a to-be-continued, and they're airing 5 new episodes a week because the japanese work themselves literally to death, so i have to be here to watch it every day"
really though the same went for power rangers.. kind of.
>>81843351
>As far as I can remember, it wasn't until Avatar that a show was completely dedicated to a full storyline,
People ITT clearly didn't grow up with British programming.
>>81843148
No. He's got a point.
At the time, JRPGs were fucking DESPERATE to "evolve" their gameplay and overcomplicated the battling.
Pokemon understood that the meat of the game was managing your fighters. Not repeatedly pushing A to level them up.
>>81843432
talking exclusively on american animation here
>>81843486
Did stuff like Animals of Farthing Wood ever air on American TV?I still can't believe how brutal that ending was.
>>81843351
>>81843424
don't forget the pokerap. if you were trying to memorize all the names, as we all were, it paid to watch every day even in rerun mode.
i taped them all and used them as drawing references, so i had a drawing of all 150 in my own little pokedex journal.. before i had any kind of official materials other than a Game Informer that had them in order
>>81843351
come to think of it, this was the case for every major hit anime in the states. Naruto, DBZ, YuGiOh all had overarching storylines and you needed to watch every episode.
even nowadays its rare for american cartoons to have that. I mean, sure you have AT, SU and Gravity Falls, but even they have lots of episodes that are standalone that can be watched whenever. those anime shows above had literally every episode continue directly from the previous one (even if they were paced like a glacier, fucking Namek)
>>81843386
kay
>>81843475
He didn't say "modern jrpgs" and there have been plenty of great jrpgs.
>>81828287
Pokemon was cheaply made
>>81843633
i dont care what anyone says, i loved namek's pacing. it felt real. like .. it really is taking for fucking ever to explore this alien world, and at every turn, we are fucked. it's taking goku FOREVER to arrive, and that adds tension. because in real life it takes a fucking goddamn long-ass time to traverse space. and i loved the filler. it was classic adventure stuff
but yeah the freeza fight going on so long when it was explicitly 5 minutes.. bleh. it's better as a long fight anyway. ought to be! though it still amazes me nothing was done with the 'freeza can't sense ki' thing. i was SURE goku would whip that out and use it. for like, months, as i watched... wondering how it would end..
in any case the pacing with bleach made me straight up stop watching. i cant get invested in a fight that takes 10 episodes to finish followed immediately by another fight that exists just to be another fight. ditto naruto. both of those were so much better when they were exploratory adventure shows
>>81828636
Pokemon still exists, so no, you can't be the next Pokemon or whatever.
>>81843822
nothing really can be the next anything anymore. no matter what you're competing with 50 other things.. nobody can handle that. there's no 'being a big phenomenon' anymore.
>>81843386
Fire Emblem.
>>81843910
I feel sorry for the kids these days. They don't those "Oh shit!" stuff like all the other generations.
Unless fully functional Jetpacks, Hoverboards, and flying cars are made.
>>81844038
seriously. it's a stagnatastic time to be alive.
still it was never that great. ruegger's getting mad at pokemon but, at the time, WB was really declining hard. why was histeria so bad? it was the same people behind all the good cartoons..
then you had like, batman beyond.. the executives actually telling them 'make batman a kid. kids only like watching other kids'. granted they were able to make something good out of it, but only because they had the sense to keep the old crew around and give them first shot at it.
actually i hear pokemon is a lot better now, than it was around the time a lot of us quit because it was formulaic and dumb as fuck (roughly when they changed the voices)
>>81842344
I gotta say that the ending song is bizarre, even in dub form.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQM_r4dbLVU
>>81829534
>Because nobody liked it.
That's why it had video games, VHS tapes, books, a toy line, fruit snacks, and all kinds of other merch?
Surely no one bought any of that because you think no one liked it.
Kill yourself.
>>81843805
Naruto never did the multi-episode fight thing though, at least not in the original show. Naruto's problem was bad voice work / scripting inherent to the show and repetitive melodrama during the Sasuke Retrieval arc and onwards
t. Guy who watched the entirety of Naruto on Netflix recently.
>>81840911
Megami Tensei has been around since the 80's and has spawned over 50 games.
>>81843633
This is because most anime is adapted from a linear source material, be it a manga, VN or game. That makes it inherently more engaging than any episodic story, all else equal.
>>81844851
i loved the..
well i liked the voices in naruto.
but yeah it did to the multi episode fight thing. a lot. and back-to-back fights that exist for no reason except fights.
it's sad because like so many shounen, it started out great before they left home. STAY HOME everyone. if you find yourself with great powers, just stay home and use them there. yusuke was an awesome spirit detective, yoh was a fantastic shaman.. when they stayed in their hometowns. once they left it all went to hell.
one piece i WANT to like but i just cant manage to. at a certain point you have plot-blueballs.
the only anime i can think of that managed to stave off 'escalating drama syndrome' was kekkaishi, and that was just replaced with it not being or looking very good..
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/pokemon-movie-rights-bidding-war-884207?utm_source=twitter
>A top-secret auction for film rights to the Pokemon franchise is nearing completion with Thomas Tull’s Legendary Entertainment attempting to nudge aside Warner Bros., which has pursued the property aggressively, according to sources. Sony also is said to be very interested.
>>81845587
how can people be this fucking stupid
>>81828636
Youkai Watch was too japanese and too goofy to ever be as popular as pokemon.
>>81845587
Legendary is the company I have the least faith in to do this properly.
>>81843767
Golden sun was 4 years after pokemon.
I'm talking about PS1 rpgs like grandia and wild arms that had long drawn out random encounters because of all their innovative features.
>>81846594
wild arms was pretty cool. its combat doesnt exactly wow me (and i first played it just a few years ago on emulator) but you can see how it might have developed into something really great
that said yeah pokemon has a nice clean RPG combat system and it's pretty great. it's neat how they basically took the RPG concept and used it for something totally different from others.
>>81846773
I liked wild arms too. I actually like most of PS1's RPGs, but when it came to the minor enemy fights the battles usually took forever, there were way too many random encounters, and they go out of their way to make you not care about leveling up.
ESPECIALLY in grandia. The results screens doesn't properly display what experience you earn, keeping track of those points outside of battle requires sifting between 4 different technique screens, and they keep permanantly removing characters after you sink so much time into learning their attacks.
And it's camera sucks too. Grandia's just an awful game.
>>81828381
>otaku bait
For the millionth time, this doesn't exist.
The cost of a show isn't even determined by who it's aimed at or what the genre is.
>>81828980
Apparently the American localization of Pokemon simplified the story because it was considered too ambiguous for children.
>>81829467
This season there's 9 original shows.
Anime's always been heavily driven by adaptations.
>>81829675
Something isn't an "advertisement" just because it's an adaptation, and you are making a laughable generalization with #2. There's so much anime that's adapted from manga.
>>81829807
Merchandise is a by-product.
>>81847459
more like the head of 4kids said "american kids don't like reading" and other extremely demeaning statements
>>81846112
>Lacking faith in Legendary
>Not Sony "Pixels, Amazing Spider-man" Pictures
>>81847531
According to the study I read, it was decided that the stories or characters were too ambiguous and needed to be simplified so they are more obviously good vs. evil. Apparently the soundtrack was also changed so that it's more like cartoon music rather than the filmic music that anime uses.
>>81840252
I dont know, There is still many attractive characters nowdays too atleast for me.
>>81847628
i feel lke the real reason they do that is to pad their salaries. 'no, see, we do a lot, we rescored the whole thing!'
it's funny because i like a lot of dub scores, and there's a lot of anime that uses really kinda oldfashioned-sounding orchestrated music that i often find grating in excess compared to the frequently more synth-based dub music..
>>81847771
some yeah
>>81835415
http://hhp.icy-mint.net/m/media/eps/
>>81836687
Not all studios follow that lay out.
>>81842344
Show moved to Netflix and is doing very well if not great.
>>81842916
Capcom did it better.
>>81843786
Kiddy fuller is always cheaply made, otaku bate tend to have 2x the budget hence why theres more otaku bate shows then kiddy fuller shows.
>>81847459
Yes it is in Japan, Kiddy fuller tends to only get $69,000 dollars per episode most of the time when Otaku bate gets $123,000 most of the time as they can rely on DVD sales and figurines to pay off the show (the TV time slot is so late that barely anyone watches it).
>>81847771
Laura Haruna being the hottest.
>>81843082
Mario is a Family IP. It's why Mario can make the leap to NX when Pokemon has to stay on the 3DS as kiddy games have to stay a generation behind to aim at the lowest common denominator. Aiming it at a next gen system will be franchise suicide as the adult market is so low that next to no one in Pokemon's market knows what the NX is but with Mario there is a large enough adult market who follow gaming news that know about the NX that Mario can make the jump but kiddy games like Yo-Kai Watch and Pokemon have to stay on last gen hardware until either the hardware is discontinued or the next gen system has a large enough market in that demographic. Simple as that.
>>81848477
>otaku bait
Doesn't exist.
And you're talking about the distinction between daytime and late night anime, not the distinction between children's and otaku anime (which doesn't constitute all late night anime).
>>81848512
Yes it does, don't be retarded.
Kids shows have to have lower budgets because they almost only get broadcasted once and DVD sales tend to be abysmal at best hence why kiddy fuller has not gone up since the early 80s but otaku bate can cost double that thanks to DVD/BD sales and expensive merch.
Kiddy fuller is almost nothing but TV rations as the merch is much cheaper then otaku bate shows and said merch can not pay off the show's production unless the show airs in other countries like the US when the sales are so high then they can brake even on the production at best.
>>81848643
Nobody has ever proven that pandering exists in Japan, and the idea is based on a misconception of how things work in Japan. It's assumed that creators and otaku are different groups of people, when in reality they are not.
And as I just told you:
>You're talking about the distinction between daytime and late night anime, not the distinction between children's and otaku anime (which doesn't constitute all late night anime).
Daytime anime usually runs for a long time, sometimes indefinitely. It gets revenue from advertising, merchandising and (possibly) source material sales.
>>81848743
>Nobody has ever proven that pandering exists in Japan.
It does, like every other country.
>Daytime anime usually runs for a long time, sometimes indefinitely. It gets revenue from advertising, merchandising and (possibly) source material sales.
But that revenue is so low that it needs to be released in other countries just to brake even if it were to rely on it.
It's why TV ratings matter so much for kiddy fuller as thats the only way that it can make any large amount of money (remember, 100 yen/$1 per viewer at least as said by Japanese and US law).
>>81848874
>It does, like every other country.
Nobody has ever proven it exists, and as I just told you:
>The idea is based on a misconception of how things work in Japan. It's assumed that creators and otaku are different groups of people, when in reality they are not.
Making assumptions about Japan based on how things work in America or the West almost always results in false conclusions.
>But that revenue is so low that it needs to be released in other countries just to brake even if it were to rely on it.
Do you have proof of this?
>It's why TV ratings matter so much for kiddy fuller as thats the only way that it can make any large amount of money
Daytime anime has always relied on advertising revenue. It has nothing specifically to do with children's anime.
>>81829037
That got old quick. I always fucking hated whenever Ash got a pitty badge without actually defeating the gym leader because he "showed his love for pokemon" or saved them from Team Rocket or other bullshit like that.At least now in X/Y, Ash one-shots all his gym battles in fair combat, so we don't even have to waste time with rematch arcs.
>>81831369
This show was at the level of being picked up as breadcrumbs that even G4 aired at a time trying to get the kids in the morning.
>>81848927
Yes they had.
All countries work the same when it comes to animation.
Kids merch tends to be as low as 5'ish buck but almost never goes over $60-80 but otaku merch costs anywhere from $100 to over $1000 but is mostly at $300.
>advertising revenue
But that barely makes any money, TV ratings is what brings in the cash.
>>81849173
They were better off airing old Walter Lantz shorts.
>>81849194
>Yes they had.
Where?
>All countries work the same when it comes to animation.
The anime industry couldn't possibly be more different from other animation industries.
>Kids merch tends to be as low as 5'ish buck but almost never goes over $60-80 but otaku merch costs anywhere from $100 to over $1000 but is mostly at $300.
Children's anime has a lot more viewers, and no way does otaku merchandise mostly cost $300. Scale figures average somewhere between 7000-13000 yen on AmiAmi, or $65-120. Nendoroids and figma are less than that.
>>81849283
Common sense, which you seem to lack.
>The anime industry couldn't possibly be more different from other animation industries.
Dude, we already debunked that.
>Children's anime has a lot more viewers.
You think with those viewers you think they beef up the budget but they don't.
Remember, 100 yen/$1 per viewer at least as said by Japanese & US law.
>and no way does otaku merchandise mostly cost $300.
Amazon.co.jp and Akihabara will like to have a word with you.
>>81849406
>Common sense, which you seem to lack.
So you can't provide any evidence of pandering existing in Japan.
>Dude, we already debunked that.
You can't debunk it. The anime industry is very, very different from other animation industries. Anime in general is completely different from other animation.
>You think with those viewers you think they beef up the budget but they don't.
If the budget is already sufficient then no I don't expect them to increase it. And I didn't say that daytime anime necessarily produces more profit, I suggested that having cheap merchandise bought by many people may be equivalent to having expensive merchandise bought by few people.
>Remember, 100 yen/$1 per viewer at least as said by Japanese & US law.
What are you talking about?
>Amazon.co.jp and Akihabara will like to have a word with you.
AmiAmi is a very popular store and pretty much the standard for Westerners who buy directly from Japan. $300 would be 32,000 yen, and that's extremely expensive. Only Real Action Hero figures go that high, and even then not all of them do. They are much bigger than normal scale figures and have all their clothes made from real materials.
http://www.amiami.com/top/detail/detail?gcode=FIGURE-012735
http://www.amiami.com/top/detail/detail?gcode=FIGURE-016409
>>81849550
>So you can't provide any evidence of pandering existing in Japan.
Yes I can, it's called common sense.
>You can't debunk it. The anime industry is very, very different from other animation industries. Anime in general is completely different from other animation.
People have already debunked it years ago, move on with your life.
>If the budget is already sufficient then no I don't expect them to increase it.
$69,000 is not a sufficient budget, it's peanuts, if theres a show with the same type of budget as The Simpsons ($5 to 8 million per episode) then we talk (and Nexflix is already working on something with IG & TMS with a $4 million per episode budget).
>What are you talking about?
How much money networks and ad companies have to pay the studios per each viewer.
>$230.22
>$294.15
I stand corrected.
>>81849550
>amiami
HLJ and hobbysearch are also pretty good.
>>81849753
>Yes I can, it's called common sense.
No, it's called you not having any evidence to back up your claim.
I've seen countless people by now make the claim that the anime industry is awash in pandering, and not a single one of them has been able to produce evidence.
>People have already debunked it years ago, move on with your life.
Ok, then explain how the anime industry is just like any other animation industry.
>$69,000 is not a sufficient budget, it's peanuts
Anime budgets per episode have been estimated to be between $100,000-300,000. It might be lower for daytime shows, but it varies.
>if theres a show with the same type of budget as The Simpsons ($5 to 8 million per episode) then we talk
The Simpsons looks like complete shit compared to any anime despite its high budget. Much of the budget goes towards paying the voice actors ($300,000 per episode for some of them).
>How much money networks and ad companies have to pay the studios per each viewer.
Considering your overall lack of knowledge about anime and the anime industry, I am guessing you are just taking something that's true for American animation (or what you assume is true) and applying it to the anime industry.
>I stand corrected.
It's a product line of high-end special figures.
Here are recent addition to AmiAmi in the bishoujo category:
http://www.amiami.com/top/page/c/bishoujo.html
Who cares, anime is shit.
>>81849861
>No, it's called you not having any evidence to back up your claim.
I did give you evidence.
Otaku bate shows are $123,000 per episode, higher end stuff that takes 2-3 months to make like Dennou Coil is $300,000 per episode.
Kiddy fuller is cheaper.
>The Simpsons looks like complete shit compared to any anime despite its high budget. Much of the budget goes towards paying the voice actors ($300,000 per episode for some of them).
Simpsons never was ever into it's animation, but to think if a Japanese studio had $5 to 8 million per episode and most of the money is spent on the animation then we will have another renaissance on out hands.
At least theres that Netflix deal.
Pay per viewer is the same in Japan and the US.
5 million view = $5 million dollars/500 million yen.
Figmas are cheaper.
http://slist.amiami.com/top/search/list?pagemax=30&s_seriestitle_id=1141&s_agelimit=0&s_condition_flg=0
>>81828963
I'm afraid this is the case.
Back then, the only way for most kids to get their fill of Pokémon was by buying shit and talking to their friends about it. Now, you just go on the internet and get everything you could ever want for free. Not only that but with iPads and tablets being available to just about every household, kids can be amused with free games and shit, limiting the need to buy them a gaming console.
I haven't played the Yo-Kai Watch game, but I've seen the show and find it to be well-dubbed. The store I went to today didn't have any Jibanyans, so people are obviously buying the toys here.
Yo-Kai Watch already has a huge disadvantage over Pokémon for being released in the era of digital media and free shit, where kids have immediate access to all the facts they could ever want, reducing word of mouth in addition to many not even getting to play it because free tablet games and cheap parents.
>>81835602
>BECOME A REAL POKEMON MASTER vhs instructional videos?
"I put a smackdown, with my Pokémon"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGWPStEZToQ
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2016-04-15/hollywood-reporter-legendary-warner-sony-bid-for-live-action-pokemon-rights/.101078
>Sony and WB are this desperate
>>81850088
>Not only that but with iPads and tablets being available to just about every household, kids can be amused with free games and shit, limiting the need to buy them a gaming console.
The issue with that is that most moble games are shit and you still need a $30-60 Bluetooth controller to pare it up with the few good moble games that do exist and know how to use a emulator, in the end you are better off getting a 3DS and Wii U.
>>81850013
>I did give you evidence.
Where?
>Otaku bate
No such thing exists.
>$123,000 per episode
Estimates for per episode budgets are between $100,000 and $300,000.
>Kiddy fuller is cheaper.
Possibly, but they also run much longer. And then again it's also possible that their budgets are higher even if it doesn't look like they are.
And what the hell is kiddy fuller and why do you keep calling all daytime shows that? Not all daytime anime is for children.
>Simpsons never was ever into it's animation
It's not just the animation, it's everything.
>to think if a Japanese studio had $5 to 8 million per episode and most of the money is spent on the animation then we will have another renaissance on out hands
What was the first renaissance?
>Pay per viewer is the same in Japan and the US.
Or so you assume. You also mistakenly believe that the anime industry is the same any other animation industry.
Also, $1 per viewer per episode would be a huge return on investment. One Piece has an audience rating around 10%.
>Figmas are cheaper.
I know, and I'm the one who told you that in the first place. What's your point?
>>81850135
>http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2016-04-15/hollywood-reporter-legendary-warner-sony-bid-for-live-action-pokemon-rights/.101078
You say this like Disney doesn't try to buy everything not nailed down. Pokemon didn't go away like the fad everybody thought it was. It's still fairly popular so buying the rights to it is a smart move
>>81850206
There was a book written about Pokemon about ten years ago, and it talked about it like something that had come and gone and was now dead.
The anime may have dropped in popularity but I think the video games have remained pretty popular.
>>81850183
>No such thing exists.
Yes it does, see Kill La Kill.
>Not all daytime anime is for children.
Most of it is to avoid what happen with Eva.
>It's not just the animation, it's everything.
Music & writing are excellent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjWq2Yrfz0I
>What was the first renaissance?
1985 (Gummi Bears) to 2000 (Return Of The Joker).
>Also, $1 per viewer per episode would be a huge return on investment.
Which is spent of pay checks so that they don't need to use the show's budget to pay the animators, TMS keeps Conan on air solely just for this.
>>81830007
There are at least a half-dozen original shows per season. Just because you don't watch them doesn't mean they don't exist.
>>81850289
Thats a fluke.
>>81850256
>Yes it does, see Kill La Kill.
Where's your evidence that it was made to pander?
>Most of it is to avoid what happen with Eva.
Its success just popularized late night anime, which led to TV anime becoming polarized into daytime and late night anime. That's all. But even so, not all daytime anime is for children.
>Music & writing are excellent.
I was talking about production values, not writing (and even then it can't hope to compete with anime).
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjWq2Yrfz0I
Meanwhile in anime:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1g9RqpcaEU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHPtfzOgL28
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw19XDSB0ZI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YVbd-lS2X4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMgpN7IxkzQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TawN_4icG_g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ6nyDAZkMs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmeNa_BiZb4
>1985 (Gummi Bears) to 2000 (Return Of The Joker).
Those aren't anime.
>Which is spent of pay checks so that they don't need to use the show's budget to pay the animators
Huh?
