Can we just admit he's a really, really mediocre writer? I just forced myself through his Lantern and Flash and they're both some of the most boring shit I've ever read.
>>81599692
Maybe you just have shit taste?
>>81599692
>DC BENDIS! DC BENDIS!
Can't agree with that, I find him really entertaining when he's on. It's mostly just been a while since he was in a good groove (maybe 2008-09).
It might boil down to what you enjoy. Maybe he's not your thing.
All capeshit writers are shit writers.
>>81599692
>Can we just admit he's a really, really mediocre writer?
Yeah, is mediocre, and extremely limited and a pretty ignorant person in general
>I just forced myself through his Lantern and Flash and they're both some of the most boring shit I've ever read.
Your taste is shit.
Johns is REALLY generic, and that can be hard to swallow. But in general he WAS a really fun read. Well done comics, with a really good pace. He was pretty good finding different voices for smaller characters. He was shitty when it came to motivations but not to personality.
Johns is now pretty shitty and his DSwar has been probably one of his worst works. He is ignorant as fuck and cant handle any depth. But for most of his career he was a really competent guy that used his limited talent to do REALLY good things.
>>81599844
His dialogue is just so...flat? His stories are boring. His narration is really awful too. I only kind of enjoyed Zoom out of the stuff I've read of his so far.
>>81599836
God stop posting this in every thread about Johns, not other fanbase is so deluded as John's
>>81599888
I'm a DCfag though. Spectre, Suicide Squad, Hitman, and the late 90s JLA are my favorite books if you guys want to know more about what I like.
>>81599888
Johns is the most Marvel writter DC has ever had. He is casual friendly (and that's not a bad thing).
>>81599836
I don't like Johns' stuff but he is nowhere near as bad as Bendis is.
>>81599692
>hating Geoff's Lantern run.
Kill yourself immediately.
>>81599891
You started reading comics after seeing a movie, right?
>>81599975
I like GLC more
So what is his best comic? JSA? The reboot Aquaman was pretty solid too.
He's just a bit generic but his heart's in the right place and he loves comics. He's like a worse Roy Thomas.
>>81600010
His GL and JSA runs seem to be the most popular and well liked
>>81599997
Same.
But his Lantern run wasn't bad at all.
>>81599891
dialogue and narration aren't the only parts of comic writing.
there's also the script which dictates the art, panel layout, etc. think of it as writing the artwork, although method differs per scripter. at marvel they usually did/do short plot summary, artists creates the pages, and then they go back and do dialogue later
I.e. its silly to just judge a comic on the words being used.
>>81600134
>it's silly to judge a comic book on the words written in it
>>81600061
No joke, his JSA is what got me into the DCU.
>>81599891
I really don't see how you'd get that impression from his Flash in particular. His Wally is kind of just a prop in the run, but the villain work alone in general is well done.
>>81599852
Nope.
>>81599692
You read all of his flash and lantern runs? That's hundreds of comics why would you read hundreds of comics you aren't enjoying?
Or did you just read rebirth and then decided to come on 4chan and just lie?
>>81600010
JSA > Action Comics > Flash > everything else >>>>>>>>>>>>> Avengers >>>> JL
>>81599975
It was only good until Sinestro Corps War ended.
>>81600205
His comics are readable, but given the critical acclaim he has I expected them to get better...eventually. And I'm a fast reader anyway.
>>81599692
He's not as strong a writer that /co/ wishes he were, but he fulfills his role well enough, and he's likable.
>>81600269
Does he have critical acclaim? I love Johns' good stuff but I wouldn't talk him up in a literary sense. >>81599855 nailed it down pretty well.
>>81600163
to just judge* learn to read
essentially comics should be judged on scripting, dialogue, and art. /co/ only ever talks dialogue because they can't accurately reflect why something is good or bad
>>81600269
>but given the critical acclaim he has
He doesnt get any real critical acclaim. He doesnt have his own "animal man" or "sandman" or a watchmen or Kingdom come.
>>81599692
He's got more good than bad under his belt.
But his post-Flashpiont stuff is generally not great, and lots of newer readers don't go beyond that.
>>81600994
Uh, GL and JSA, usually.
GL especially.
>>81601022
I hope Rebirth reinvigorates him. His best work has those greater ties to in-universe history. Post-Flashpoint has him entirely out of his element and it shows.
I find Johns really varying in quality. Especially depending on what artist he is with. His Superman work with Gary Frank was the best Superman in years other than ASS. His Justice League work has been utter garbage. It's bizzare.
>>81601022
His Aquaman was fantastic, GL became better after the slump of Brightest day and War of the GL and managed to end on high note. JL is hit or miss but more hit than miss. Although I do admit he isn't Post Infinite Crisis - Pre Brightest day tier now.
>>81600994
This. Even Bendis for all his faults has acclaimed runs like Daredevil and possibly Powers which people rank among the greats. Johns doesn't really have anything like that. It feels like he was the only half decent writer at DC during a bad period for them talent wise and got pushed up into a position he's not ready or right for. Promoted to a level of incompetence is the corporate term. It happens a lot.
>>81601213
>What is JSA, Action Comis, Flash or Green fucking Lantern
All the things I mentioned are considered best when those characters are mentioned. Get the fuck outta here.
>>81601193
>His Aquaman was fantastic
It was serviceable.
>>81601031
I think in execution JSA is closest to what he's talking about, but it is relatively underappreciated in terms of considering it an all-time great and Johns doesn't get that credit thematically (perhaps due to having cowriters on it with him).
GL gets hype especially for reinvigorating the franchise but I don't think it's on that level.
>>81601193
>His Aquaman was fantastic
It's pretty good.
This plays into the "some people don't look beyond the New 52" thing.
So many people act like that's the first time Aquaman was cool.
Johns Aquaman was bland and boring as fuck. I legit do not get why /co/ gives it so much love.
Reis drew the shit outta it though, i'll give him props
>>81601596
I personally preferred Parker's run.
>>81601372
His JSA run is great but thought Robinson is regarded as the definitive run? His Action Comics and GL are great but up there with anything by Morrison, Moore, Ellis, even Waid? Ditto for his Flash run vs Waid's Flash run.. All good but not great runs. Either Johns is good but not great or down right awful. Loved his Superman tho.
>>81599692
He used to be GOAT, but he's far past his prime.
He has great concepts, but often fails to get the most out of his ideas. Darkseid War for example started with so much promise.
>>81601646
His Justice League has been so bad. It just feels like nothing has happened for years. Things seem like they will be great then just end up bland.
Johns is such a fun writer.
His Superman run is one of the best of the last few decades. His GL reinvented the character. Flash, JSA, Hawkman, Aquaman, Booster Gold. These were all great runs. He's not like Morrison who makes incredibly meaningful content, but his work is entertaining and fun.
>>81601643
I think his Superman is better than Waid for sure. Not sure why anyone would suggest otherwise unless they're literally only comparing Birthright and Secret Origin.
>>81601688
>mfw /co/ was seriously saying Forever Evil was good
Green Lantern is great up to the Sinestro Corps Wars, goes downhill after that.
Flash is great. Infinite Crisis is alright as far as these things go. Legion of Three Worlds is amazing.
I think he does a better job on DC that Bendis does on Marvel, but he's not nothing on Bendis' Daredevil. There's much better writers doing cape comics right now.
>>81601755
>was good
No they said it was the greatest comic of the year
>>81601769
His JSA is better than Bendis' Daredevil.
Although I thought the Justice Society of America relaunch was a step down.
>>81601784
The /co/ Awards are dead and buried, right?
Because it was always so fucking painful to see.
>>81601769
Bendis' Daredevil is one of the most overrated books ever.
>>81601031
JSA it's his best. but no. He doesnt have a legendary run, he as a really good and popular one. But it doesnt compare with O'neil's batman or Morrison's JLA either.
>>81599692
>can you all just change your opinions to be like mine
Nah.
>>81601643
WTF are you on about nigga? Unless you going pre crisis, nobody recommeds Robinson's JSA over Johns/Goyer or just Johns. Johns is credited best there. His GL again is definitive version and Moore's short stories don't count as a run. Superman, everyone is divisive as fuck outside co as to what the character's best run is, post infinite crisis Johns takes that spot although there are a few Busiekfags, Waid doesn't even have a Superman run. Flash stuff is considered best second to Waid. Also like it or not, his Aquaman is considered best by a lot of people, some of them have actually read PD's run.
>>81599852
Nah Moore has some fantastic prose. Morrison is solid as well and there were a few Bronze Age guys like RoyThomas that you can tell were boomer college lit nerds.
>>81601769
>Flash is great
I didn't care for his Flash. Messner-Loebs and Waid did so much work to make Wally different from Barry and I felt like Johns just didn't want to do anything but The Rouges and Reverse Flash
Also The Secret of Barry Allen was shit
>>81601841
>His JSA is better than Bendis' Daredevil.
I love the JSA but no. Robinson JSA > Bendis Daredevil > Geoff JSA.
>>81601769
If his GL ould had ended afterSinestro corps it would had been one of the greatest runs ever.
>>81601749
Agreed. Johns Superman is underrated and killed before its time. Was comparing his Flash and Waid's. While being good it's not best run ever like Waid's probably is.
>>81601970
And rebirth was horrible.
>>81601841
>His JSA is better than Bendis' Daredevil.
I have not read it. His Justice League is terrible tho. Aquaman which everyone seems to praise and post-Red Lanterns GL are also kinda bad.
>>81601858
I think it's weaker than Miller, Brubaker and Waid's runs, but it's still pretty good.
>>81601981
too bad guy focused and One More Daying Wally was stupid
>>81600010
JSA was probably his best. His New 52 stuff was mostly great, Curse of Shazam, Justice League, Aquaman, Forever Evil, Vibe.
His original Flash run was also pretty stellar.
>>81601981
Ah, you grouped Waid in with the first part
>His Action Comics and GL are great but up there with anything by Morrison, Moore, Ellis, even Waid?
So it got confusing. Johns is kind of modern Waid to me actually. I don't think either of them is that skilled but when they hit their niche they're good.
>>81602041
Vibe was Sterling Gates.
And Justice League is mostly bad.
>>81601755
It is, so was Justice League starting at Issue 18.
>>81602041
JL is not good and he only did maybe one or two issues of Vibe, perhaps you can credit him with the general idea but it was Gates doing the heavy lifting.
>>81601920
>Johns Aquaman better than PD
You went full retard.
>>81601769
>>81601769
Brubaker was better than Bendis, Waid's first half was better than Bendis. And considering the things Johns has written, there are a lot of things that fare better than Bendis DD.
What is it exactly that people dislike about Justice League?
>>81602055
Waid is much better.
>>81601769
>There's much better writers doing cape comics right now
Rick Remender was the last cape writer I followed
>>81602055
I rate Waid above Johns. Waid has work like Kingdom Come and his Flash run which are up there as all time greats or greatest runs on a character ever. I don't feel Johns has that even with his Green Lantern work.
>>81601981
Loved Superman & The Legion of Super-Heroes, even if the retroboot has a whole was dumb and bad.
>>81602172
Slightly better.
>>81599692
I remember an interview Greg Rucka gave shortly after 52 was finished, where he was asked about the other writers. He had a comment about Johns that always stuck with me and one that I feel really boils him down as a writer.
>I think Geoff does superheroes like nobody's business. He does great action and heroism and excitement and stuff that is really cool, and he does it expertly.
>I think sometimes that runs the risk of doing cool for the sake of cool, which might not be a criticism. There was an email exchange at one point, where he said it was okay to do the cool thing because it is cool. I wish I had the presence of mind to respond, because I realized that my reaction should have been, "But if you do that, you have 'Phantom Menace.'" [laughs] I do think that can be a problem.
https://web.archive.org/web/20080209003308/http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/printthis.cgi?id=9945
>>81602216
I was thinking of Remender, Gillen and Jason Aaron. I don't even know if they're still doing capes because I'm not reading it anymore tbqh
>>81602157
It's dull. It goes nowhere. It keeps feeling like it will get good but never does. The League feel out of character which was forgivable on the first arc set when they first met but not now. It's just boring and uninspiring to me compared with Morrison's, Waid's, and Dini/Timm's work on the league.
>>81601920
>Aquaman is considered best by a lot of people, some of them have actually read PD's run.
These people are retarded.
Hell, his run was immediately followed by a better one from Jeff Parker.
>>81602172
>>81602220
I don't really see it, but I also don't rate Kingdom Come that highly in general so that might be the reason why. Flash run vs Flash run I'd pick Waid over Johns, but generally they're kind of the same sort of writer without much of a gap quality-wise.
>>81602055
Waid did kingdom come, Johns has never made anything as significant. Even whit all it's flaws, just like red son it's beyond Johns writting habilities.
>>81602230
Agreed. LoSH in that was best they have been for years. And it nailed Superman and why they work as part of his history.
>>81602220
It is though. And Silver Age stuff is better than Waids Flash as a whole.
>>81602230
It was great, wtf are you smoking. Are you a SJWaidfag?
>>81602269
I was in a thread once where someone said Johns writes like he's trying to get (You)s in storytimes. Thought that was a nice way to put it.
>>81601646
Calling Johns the GOAT anything just makes me want to question /co/'s sanity. Like...he's not bad but he just isn't close to being one of the greats.
>>81602041
>His New 52 stuff was mostly great
>Curse of Shazam
Good, not at all great, it should had been an earth one book
>Justice League
It's bad. I wanted to say it was mediocre or ok, but Darkside war took 1 in 5 issues and was complete garbare outside the art
>Aquaman
That was great
>Forever Evil
Good, pretty good
>Vibe
are you sure it was johns?
/co/ normally argues about everything but it seems like the majority here have the exact same opinion of Johns down to responses about his individual works?
>>81602376
GOAT is always hyperbole to mean "one of my favorites" even on /sp/ when it's possible to quantify actual GOATs
>>81602292
Gillen is overrated as fuck and Aaron has written a lot of stinkers.
>>81599836
No, he is DC's Dan Slott.
>>81602326
Waid's JLA alone is better than anything Johns has written
>>81602157
Did you read Kelly's run?
Read it and then re-read Johns, and you will understand why Johns League is bad. I use kelly as an example since he is a writter in the same level as johns.
>>81602446
DC doesn't really have a Slott.
>>81602446
This is actually REALLY REALLY fucking accurate. They are both really generic writers who occasionally come up with cool concepts but ultimately fail to write anything substantial.
>>81602475
Kelly is head and shoulders above Johns.
>>81602472
Kelly's JLA was way better than Waid's and counterpoint JSA.
>>81601596
i like his revamp of ocean master a lot. someone who genuinely loves his brother and cannot understand why he lives on the surface world. no truly evil intentions. people don't understand that before ocean master was a bit of a joke villain
>>81602472
It's in no way better than JSA especially not with that crappy Tower of Babel arc in there
>>81602400
He isnt that controversial, he is a capable writter that did pretty good stuff. He shits the bed when he is outside his confort zone (JL, Batman, TT, New Gods), but when he is doing what he really wants with the characters he really wants his limitations as a writter can be forgeted, he does what he does really really good.
>>81602376
There's a small group of Johnsfags, like 5 of them. Like this shithead
>>81599836
>>81602220
the only reason people like kingdom come is because of the era shit was written in. its waid going "oh no my super special super heroes have gotten TOO DARK and I need to fix it with a story that anyone could do!!" not to mention it has Ross Art, who while his work is beautiful, is arguably not suited for the medium of comics
>>81602548
And Waid.
>>81602548
I don't agree but i have to admit i had read all Johns works, but not that much of Kelly. I may be wrong.
Green Lantern up until Blackest Night was good.
>>81602567
I live his ocean master, but i'm tired of him trying to huminize all the villians.
His take on the anti-monitor is one of the worst shit i had even seen in a comic.
>>81602446
I misread this as Alan Scott at first and was really confused.
>>81602829
anti-monitor is still killing people left and right like its nobody's fucking business. altering his backstory didn't really change him all that much except for his goals. he's still a ruthless fuck
>>81602829
His AM really doesn't make sense at all. I don't get why it was in this arc or why he thought it would be interesting. It such a weird thing.
He has a "I need to make husbandos" thing for sure though. Even when they aren't wholly humanized all his villains are rather fuckable.
>>81601643
Waid is mediocre incarnate. Guy never did anything great.
>>81602885
This thread is proving that there's a lot of people in love with Kingdom Come who can't accept this
It was one of the first comics I read and came out when I was still in grade school (inb4 MODS, I'm 19) but I don't understand all the hate his TT run gets.
>>81602012
>His Justice League is terrible tho
Most fans of his JSA run agree with this.
>>81603074
Because he changed the hipster fun Superboy into an emotionally complex character. Can't have that because le fun.
>>81602856
>anti-monitor is still killing people left and right like its nobody's fucking business
"i missed killing with my own hands" how is that not complete bullshit? there was zero reason to use the anti-monitor.
>altering his backstory didn't really change him all that much except for his goals
Actually it does. And it alters the entire origin of the multiverse.
But Johns gave DIANA 2 different origins in this arc, so for me this is neither canon, not something i can take seriously.
>>81603239
the whole point of DC's multiverse is that it was never stable
you have so many contradicting retcons, reboots and rewrites that for someone to alter it drastically is everyday business at DC. I don't get why people act like the dc multiverse is this set in stone entity
>>81603231
>into an emotionally complex character.
There was nothing complex about that, it was OC he did when he was like 18.
>>81603239
This. Johns Anti Monitor stuff is so awful I want to just pretend it doesn't exist. It's pointless and makes no sense given what we have seen before of the AM and Monitors in general from Wolfman to Morrison to even Johns himself ffs.
I think his mediocrity as a writer coupled with his position of creative power in what is arguably DC's worst period means he should be actively reviled.
>>81602354
Anon, you're drunk.
Superman & the LoSH, Legion of Three Worlds, and the Legion Academy stuff were the only non-shit parts of retroboot.
>>81603585
>in what is arguably DC's worst period
>is
Are you suggesting that this is the worst DC has been?
Because that's silly.
>>81599692
>Johns Green Lantern run
>Boring
Could I get an interview with you for Objectively Shit Taste Monthly?
>>81601559
For me it's Mclaughlin < PD< johns. In order of coolness
He's great at making things standardized and approachable.
Which is great for new readers, but leads to bland stories that unfortunately end up defining characters for audiences.
>>81599692
I enjoyed his superman run
>>81599692
Then don't read it.
>>81603231
>>81603387
I'll admit that his run isn't great in the context of how Superboy used to be portrayed, but as a stand alone thing it reads well.
>>81603635
I would add the Secret Origin mini too and maybe the two issues of BATB that JMS did but I don't know if that's technically Retroboot
>>81603675
Movies are terrible.
Cartoons are terrible when they were once untouchable in this department.
Comics line is terrible and plagued with unoriginal gimmicks.
Maybe it's an overexaggeration but since comics have been accepted as a creative medium I'm having a hard time thinking of a worse period in DC's history.
>>81604248
Talking strictly comics, this is a much better time than the few years just before and after Flashpoint.
What a dark time that was.
>>81603635
This. Plus the Secret Origins with the retroboot. Other than that retroboot went to shit surprisingly quickly and is yet another failed LoSH attempt. It managed to break everything it set out to fix within months.. And even worse than before somehow. But the bits Johns did were GOAT.
>>81604318
True. Flashpoint was and the Nu52 was an all time low for DC quality wise. But just before the Nu52 it wasn't much better. Though rebooting the whole universe in a badly planned shit way was throwing the baby out with the bathwater..
The thing I like about Johns is that he truly has a love for comics and the DC universe as a whole. He may not hit it out of the park all the time but I'll always give something with his name on it a shot.
>>81604318
>>81604430
You guys are delusional if you think we are somehow in a different era than Post-Flashpoint and New 52.
>>81604448
At least he's not bitter. Most of the fan turned pro people are just awful when it comes to dealing with fans, but I don't see Johns turning into Waid or worse Byrne
>>81599692
I like his JSA, his Superman run, his Legion stuff, his GL stuff, and his Flash stuff up until Return of Barry Allen.
I also liked Batman Earth One even though Batfags hated it.
>>81604448
How to forget Moore's butthurt and how Sodam Yat was literally the start of "johns hype a new character and then does nothing with him"
>>81604448
Why doesn't Dave Gibbons get more flak/acclaim for his bits in SCW? If you read SCW only reading Johns' GL nothing in relation to Alan Moore's story would be there.
(This isn't really directed at you, just something I've noticed)
>>81604569
Wasn't the hype almost entirely in GLC?
>>81604194
>>81604371
Right, forgot about the Secret Origin issue. That was a nice mini.
Is the Star Trek crossover any good?
I know it's non-canon, but it seemed to be going for a retroboot look.
>>81604430
The editorial and higher-ups just could not stop fucking up in those years.
>Hey let's do a massive reboot as a sales gimmick.
>Okay, sure.
>In seven months.
>>81604480
Less editorial interference, better stories, some new blood
Yeah, this is way better.
I feel like you're forgetting what a fucking disaster the early reboot was.
Remember the Daemonites? The Wildstorm stuff in general? The constantly changing creative teams?
>>81599855
What do you mean by ignorant?
>>81602475
Yeah, but why is Geoff's run bad?
Not being as good as someone else isn't bad.
>>81604569
Sodam Yat is literally the definition of wasted potential. A Daxamite who had Ion in him is God itself judging from Kyle's previous experience with it and yet he just beefed it at every opportunity.
>>81604602
I don't know much about Star Trek ironically (as it probably is up my alley) but I enjoyed it. It was more throwback than retroboot.
>>81604567
I also forgot, I liked his Aquaman run too and he made Orm a likeable character too.
>>81604480
We're definitely in a different one now. The shift happened about a year before DCYou (which is merely when they publicized their internal changes).
>>81599692
Justice League has been shit
>>81604448
Deepest Lore
>>81604616
He isnt the brightest bulb.
He isnt well versed in mythology, philosophy or anything that arent comics or science fiction. And as far as history goes... well. Just read the last Darkside war issue.
>>81604867
Not the anon you're talking to but...you can be ignorant and still a bright person and vice versa.
>>81604625
The Johns run is kind of obviously disappointing. Poor characterization at times, plotlines getting introduced and not followed up on, no really rhythm in storytelling, characters just literally not doing anything for periods of time without an excuse as if they're on the book literally because editorial says so and he doesn't care to even give them something to be busy with.
I don't know if it's a lack of passion for the JL concept or what but it hasn't been good especially compared to his previous runs on team books let alone other JL runs.
>>81605002
justice league does feel like an editorially-conflicted book. a lot of people think johns is untouchable but he still has to adhere to some shit. his justice league run has been fucked with from the get-go
>let's start from the beginning
original promo teaser features numerous characters including ryan choi atom, goatee'd green arrow, element woman, mera, hawkman and one lady luck, who he mentioned would have a storyline where she buys wayne industries and batman is completely baffled as to how
pandora and the trinity of sin were clearly meant to be more theological in concept, as evidenced by dc's fcbd teaser. It can be concluded that trinity war was originally meant to be the league splitting up into pandora team, stranger team, and question team
we can also conclude from the fcbd book that ARGUS, specifically the red and black rooms, were supposed to play bigger role's along with shazam's pantheon.
>skipping to post throne of atlantis
johns spinoff book JLA had plans for it mentioned in interviews, namely a new green arrow/green lantern partnership, and I do believe he mentioned bringing spoiler and cyborg to the government-sanctioned team
justice league proper issue 18-20, where element woman and firestorm seemed like they were going to be new additions to the team, and we were finally going to get the explanation of martian manhunter's conflict with the league
>post-Forever Evil
introduction of doom patrol was clearly meant to be bigger, lex luthor on the league was meant to last longer, as we got hints towards future storylines and a rogues gallery for Lex (starting with a revamped amazo and a teased Amos Fortune)
Lex was supposed to mentor Ted Kord, only to find out Ted Kord is the one putting out the hits on him. they changed this to lena luthor and introduced it haphazardly.
Captain cold and the rogues were supposed to rob the watchtower
>>81604602
>>81604705
There is nothing to indicate that there has been a shift away from the poor creative decisions that were made in the New 52. We are on the cusp of New 52 2.0 as we speak. The amount of good stories hasn't increased and may have actually decreased as well.
>>81604625
Kelly's run shows how the JL should be. Johns lacks everything good about Kelly's. As >>81605002 says, the JL book has been in general poorly concived. Lex introduction to the team was one of the worst ideas ever, Johns took so much space, lines, pages and time that now 1 third of the issues of JL are about how the trinity reacts to Luthor.
He put Cyborg in the team and did NOTHING WITH HIM aside from changing his origin for the sake of it.
>>81605380
Finally, Mister Miracle and John Stewart were clearly supposed to be bigger roles in Darkseid War, as evidenced by interviews and the research johns did for them (johns notable posted photos of him reading mister miracle and john stewart centric comics on instagram)
as a final mention, rise of the seven seas keeps popping up but hasn't happened yet
>>81599692
I love that shirt tho.
Who /michigan/ here?
>>81605380
All of this means nothing when he can't even characterize the big seven properly.
>>81605430
GODDAMMIT I KEEP REMEMBERING MORE SPECIFIC SHIT THAT GOT DROPPED
>plastic man (jl #25)
>didn't write any more metal men
>never got alexander luthor's origin
I think overall they wanted to make justice league the event book and this really hurt the natural rhythms of johns storytelling, where he builds up to events with smaller arcs, and then those events lead into more. the book has pretty much been events and filler material in between from the get go, not to mention getting mired in crossovers. JL is definitely a very editorial-influenced book, regardless of whether they're open about it
>>81605388
I don't think you understand what happened. Around the new 52 editors were insane. They were half-writing books. As a response to multiple creators walking and shit-talking the process DC replaced half their editorial department and gave creators more freedom.
How can you say there's nothing to indicate there's been a shift? This is all known. Are you fucking joking now?
>>81605430
>12 hours talking about Kanto with Fabok one night on the phone
>he hasn't done shit since like the first two issues
>>81605497
Johns lies a lot. He says things without haing a real plan.
Under morrison every arc was EVENT tier Under Johns nothing really happens or has impact.
>>81605564
Not a single one of the "god powered" leaguers had done anything either.
It's simple:
Johns thought of a gimmick to sell alternative suit toys and then started writting the story.
>>81599692
He's pretty good, but he's no Ennis/Morrison/Gaiman.
>>81605580
it can be chalked up to different time periods they were written and different writing styles and rhythms. as a counter point i'd offer up his green lantern run, which got to tell the stories it wanted to until the end
>>81605564
this too holy shit
>>81605580
>Johns lies a lot. He says things without haing a real plan.
I don't think it's that he lies, he just gets really excited and blurts out things he thinks would be cool. Then he never gets around to doing it.
>Krypto vs Dex-Starr
cereal man why
>>81605637
This is what I would say too. The only thing he maybe knowingly lied about is some of the Wally stuff. Once the backup was cancelled he had to have known the full extent of how DC felt about Wally. Wasn't right to lead us on.
>>81605517
No I'm not fucking joking now. DC is still running around like a chicken with its head cut off. They have no creative direction. Their biggest characters aren't supported nearly as much as they should be. They are relying once again are marketing stunts with no substance. Their stable of great writers can be counted on one hand. The number of great books being released currently is pretty much exactly the same, probably even less, than the New 52. You are fooling yourself if you think things are somehow different when there have been no changes among the higher ups.
>>81605624
Even that's not really true. I remember (and no, don't have a source) Johns talking about having a trilogy of trilogies during his GL run. There was the Emotional Spectrum trilogy, I guess you could chalk up War of the Green Lanterns, Rise of the Third Army and The First Lantern into a trilogy and then...the third one just never happened.
>>81605580
I love that about Moz's JL. Every arc felt like a huge summer event. It was exactly how you imagined a team up book of DC's biggest characters. It was ironically what eventually came to screen with The Avengers.
>>81605401
You know, adding Cold and Luthor to the League in theory sounded like a good idea but the execution has been implemented very poorly.
Seeing Lex and Cold bounce off of Arthur, Barry, Vic, etc could have been interesting as you rarely see these characters interact with each other (if ever really) but it was not to be.
>>81605775
i dunno the first lantern really feels like the be all end all kind of thing. heck i remember an interview from way back where he said he was originally going to leave after blackest night but had more ideas after that. blackest night and the white lantern stuff might've been a neat swan song
>>81605721
I don't think you really what people are saying when they argue a change in eras. The point is that restructuring their editorial has had a visible effect in their entire line-up. Even if you want to argue it's not necessarily better it certainly is different.
By your logic nothing has changed in forever purely because Didio is still around. Or the only change has been Levitz for Harras even though there were multiple shifts during Levitz's reign.
>>81599692
if you don't label the image how am I supposed to know who you're talking about?
>>81605856
What visible effect? Not relying on reboots to boost sales? Following their own mandate of storytelling over continuity and doing away with their disastrous New 52 universe? Structuring their lineup so niche books have a chance? Please tell me what is so different.
>>81605856
I blame Harras and Lee for bad modern DC is compared to 90s DC. Harras has run it into the ground like he did the X franchise and Marvel.
>>81605879
>not knowing best boy, my waifu: the cereal lord himself
>>81606039
There's been marginally more good books. ASS8 was amazing. So was Midnighter. It feels less like editorial are haphazardly driving the car into the embankment and more that writers are allowed to do their thing, e.g. tee shirt and jeans Supes has been enjoyable. So has Gordon-Bats. A bunch of things have been better than the Nu52 abomination at launch.
>>81606039
Can you really not tell the shift that began after Harley was a success that led to more tonal diversity and some more experimenting again? And creators openly talking about how they have more freedom to work without editors shitting on them like before. I really don't know how you disagree that this has happened.
And niche books will never have a chance outside of the occasional fluke in this market. Not at DC, not at Marvel, not at Vertigo, Image, Dark Horse, IDW, etc. No one fucking buys comics in general and it sucks. That's not on DC.
>>81606300
Look at the Rebirth lineup and tell me they are experimenting more than New 52.
>>81605824
Luthor and cold could had been good, but you needed to get rid of Batman and Superman.
Make Luthor and billy get closer to each other (so billy has his back in an eventual Superman fight).
>>81606649
Rebirth is not the only thing they're doing. Hanna-Barbera and Young Animal exist as well, can't divorce those from the other books as if the people in charge aren't running that aspect as well. It's not as separate as Vertigo at least.
>>81606823
I agree.
It's funny because at first when they announced Luthor and Cold joining the League I recall DC putting out a promotional image which suspiciously lacked Superman and Flash so I pegged they were leaving the team to make room for them (although as you say I would swap out Barry for Bruce naturally).
Oh how I wish that would have happened now to make room for the other characters getting to interact with Snart and Lex if we had to get them on the team at all which in hindsight was a poorly executed idea..
>>81602514
Those are all really generic criticisms that could be leveled at any writer you don't like. So no.
It isn't.
