Who is Spideys definitive villain? The red skull to his Cap, joker to his batman etc. My first reaction is the Green Goblin, but then I also think Venom just by dint of Venoms origins. Goblin just seems to hate spiderman and Peter for reasons, is that enough to make him the main defining villain?
Yes, because Norman had the closest relationship to him and caused him the most pain through the death of Gwen Stacy. Slott can say all the bullshit he wants about Ock being Peter's real archnemesis, he'll never come close to Norman.
>>81583474
It's Osborn, yes.
Venom is a major villain largely because they pushed the fuck out of him in the 90's; he's accomplished relatively little against Spidey outside his initial outing.
Meanwhile Green Goblin has fairly regularly managed to fuck up Peter's live in multiple ways, through murdering love interests or psychologically twisting his best friends into enemies and all that shit.
When Green Goblin was dead it was Dock Ock who was his biggest nemesis; he pulled off some very nasty shit with Spidey too, though he often did so less intentionally then Goblin did.
>>81583520
If Osborn had STAYED dead, Ock would be. But he didn't so he isn't.
1. Green Goblin
2. Doc Ock
3. Venom
In that order of arch-nemesisness.
I'm out of the loop, what has Ock done that bumps him up the list? I know his rampaging arms killed Captain Stacey and I think I read something about Ock maybe marrying Aunt May. But then Vulture also tried it on with her.
>>81583563
He killed Captain Stacy, he kept Aunt May a virtual hostage for a surprisingly long time (and tried to marry her even to maintain his cover), came VERY close to murdering Black Cat when she and Spidey were an item (leading to one of Peter's few moments where he truly lost his temper and just fucked his shit up into tomorrow), and generally was usually a very big threat.
This is partially because the VAST majority of Peter's villains are jumped-up thugs and criminals with superpowers, and thus while they were a threat HIM, usually their plans were some variation of "kill Spider-Man, get money", in that order.
Doc Ock wax always more ambitious and usually had some kind of (generally fairly insane) wide-ranging scheme that was way beyond the scope of his other villains, including several times basically holding successfully Manhattan itself hostage unless his demands were met.
Basically, Ock was as smart as he was powerful and crazy, while other Spidey villains are idiots most of the time.
>>81583523
>Venom is a major villain largely because they pushed the fuck out of him in the 90's; he's accomplished relatively little against Spidey outside his initial outing.
Not to mention Venom became an anti hero rather quickly into his life span, not even a villain. So while he still could be considered an enemy of Spidey because of his murderous tendencies as soon as Maximum Carnage they were technically both good guys just different sorts
>>81583688
If Marvel hadn't spammed Venom in the 90's he largely would have been forgotten honestly; he has no storylines or memorable things he done at all.
He just made good action-figures because he was designed by the guy who now pretty much only designs action figures.
>>81583474
>Who is Spideys definitive villain?
Fisk Might be the most persistent one. he is the one he is in conflict the most.
Osborn is more of a come and go.
>>81583725
>he has no storylines or memorable things he done at all.
That isn't true...I remember every Venom storyline and so does every other Venom fan, you just don't like Venom so why don't you say that instead of trying to be objective and coming off like quite an ass?
Also, what does that even mean....if ANY character wasn't "spammed" they would be forgotten, since they wouldn't exist
>>81583792
The thing with Fisk is that DD kinda stole him from Spidey. Except in Ultimate, I guess.
>>81583474
Its not venom. Venom may be his most liked villain, but he's not the on who consistently come back to torment his life. Right now I think Venom has spent more time on Peters side than against him.
I used to think it was Doc Ock, but the truth is that the Green Goblin has taken his place.
>>81583816
>is that DD kinda stole him from Spide
It's more of a sharing really. Fisk remain involved in a lot of comic plot.
Fuck he was pivotal in the events that leads to OMD. In a way, he is the villain that fucked up spidey's life the most.
>>81583811
ok. what memorable things did Eddie-Venom do to Spidey between giving MJ a fear of the black suit, and auctioning the symbiote off?
>>81583474
Man, Spiderman's rogues gallery is so good that we actually have to argue who his arch is.
You look at most others and the argument is over trying to name five memorable villains
>>81583621
Don't forget Doc Ock formed the original Sinister Six and was also the "Master Planner"
>>81583811
Okay, name something memorable Venom has done outside of his origin?
>>81583864
Best Rogues gallery in no real order (except maybe the top three)
Batman
Spider-Man
The Flash
X-Men
Fantastic Four
Superman
Green Lantern
JLA
Captain America
Thor
>>81583474
I'd say it's a tie between Gobby and Ock.
Not Venom, that's for sure, I understand your reasoniong but the guy was a villain for like 3 years of publication only in 616. Kraven may be before him.
>>81583849
>ok. what memorable things did Eddie-Venom do to Spidey
Who cares what he did to Spidey? He stopped being a Spider-Man villain and became an anti hero almost right after his debut...like I literally just said.
>>81583892
>Okay, name something memorable Venom has done outside of his origin?
Appeared in comics I liked. Maybe you could read comics instead of wiki articles, then maybe you'd have something to go by rather than MUH FEATS, FEATS, FEATS
Fuck off to Death Battle comments section
>>81584018
Yeah, just as I thought.
He hasn't done shit.
>>81583879
In his second appearance he kidnapped Betty Brant, being the 1st guy to try to fuck up one of Spidey's love interest.
Either him or Vulture are also the 1st roccuring Spidey villain, can't remember which.
>>81583725
He would have stayed relevant by virtue of his origin and powers.
>>81584050
Chameleon.
Try actually reading the Ditko run, anon. It's good.
Why was Green Goblin so underplayed in 90s cartoon? It was my first exposure to Spider-man, so it's was hard for me to get used to idea that Goblin is his main nemesis afterwards
>>81583474
Norman Osborn was dead for 30 years, so fuck his retcon bullshit. Venom (Brock) went aniti-hero pretty quick, which I think outweighs the strength of his early appearances.
The real answer is either Doc Ock and the Sinister Six orThe Shocker!
>>81583864
a good rogues gallery has each villain intersect with at least two of the hero's major themes, but also bring their own themes to the table. It's the last part that makes a lot of galleries suffer. Take Iron Man. Most of his villains are just 'I'm you, but evil/loyal to a different country'. The only one that ever stood out in my mind was Ghost, since he brings the conspiracy nut thing to the table (which works particularly good because Tony was literally in the Illuminati), which in turn allowed for scenes like Tony telling Ghost that he'd downsized and sold off much of his company, making him no longer a big enough business man to qualify as 'the enemy 1%' in Ghost's worldview. Only other decent guy Tony has is Mandarin
>>81584093
I did, anon, and I liked it, I just have a shitty memory. I didn't even remember Chameleon appearing more than 1 time in the 1st few issues.
I understand jumping to "read comics" but that's not always the best response.
>>81584139
What would spideys themes be? Obviously there's the animal motif that Ock, the Lizard, Scorpion, Rhino etc all buy in to, but what else? Spidey is a good guy, loyal to his friends and family and down on his luck. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean by themes?
>>81584110
Fisk is a more important Villain for Spidey than Dock Ock.
>>81583474
I'd have to say its officially Goblin.
I don't like that fact but it is what it is. There is no interesting symbolism between the two, no mirror or opposite status that tends to define a archvillain - Lex's brain vs Supe's brawn, crazy-bad Joker to crazy-good Bats, race-relations vs race-war with Xavier and Mags. Norman happened to be the villain who killed Spidey's girlfriend, it could has just as easily been any of his other rogues but over that single act Goblin is permanently enshrined into archvillain status. He is Spidey's definitive villain, and its a shame.
Venom *should* be Spidey's arch-villain but he was a victim of his own success, if a villain becomes popular they get shoehorned into an anti-hero role (look at Harley right now) and it ends up killing off what made the villain interesting in the first place. A good villain is used sparingly not given their own monthly.
>>81583947
Spidey's rogues are simply awful, I'm at a loss how you can put them in the same list as Bats and Flash's rogues let alone in the Top 3. Just a bunch of bank robbers, not much different than Flash's gang but they grew into an interesting cast of characters while Spidey's rogues are largely the same 2-dimensional villains they were when introduced in the 60s. Again, I believe this another "victim of popularity" problem, in this case from Spidey's own popularity, the villains didn't need to grow - writers were forced to make Snart interesting if they didn't want their book cancelled, Spidey sold even with lame villains.
And here is where I'm eviscerated by Spidey fans rushing to defend the honor of great villains like the Vulture, Sandman, Rhino, Shocker, Lizard, Electro, Scorpion, and Mysterio. These guys could be made interesting but they never have been, didn't need to be because Spidey works even when beating up a buncha losers.
>>81584224
Great Power comes with Great Responsibility.
Most of Spidey's villains are petty,thuggish or just plain dumb.
>>81584246
I always think of Fisk as a Daredevil villain. Also, I've always found it absurd that, no matter how agile or muscular the Kingpin is, that he would stand half a chance in a 1-on-1 fight against a guy who can lift a car.
It would be great if Hobgoblin came back after Slott was gone and staked his own claim at being Spidey's arch villain.
>>81583474
Green Goblin or Doc Ock. But sometimes I think that in the end Spidey and Otto will simply sit down for a chat and reason with each other. They might even swap science notes.
So Osborn would be Spidey's end game nemesis, Green Goblin 4 life.
>>81583474
I'd say Ock but I haven't read Spidey since 2013.
>>81584344
...sorry what the fuck. Is Osborne fucking Gwen Stacey here?
>>81584284
Agreed. Spidey has a solid few bad guys that are good but to say they're better then the X-men's?
Nope and I don't even care for those muties
>>81584368
Yeah she has 2 kids, twins, with Osborn. Osborn blackmails her then rapes her but he makes it out she enjoyed it. MJ reveals all to Pete and he goes apeshit.
Naturally Pete declares Norman his no. 1 enemy.
The whole storyline was controversial.
>>81584441
....was this meant to be before Osborne throws her off the bridge? How did she hide the pregnancy from pete? whaaaa how did MJ know?
>>81584224
Peter's main themes are the animal motif, money, and technology/science. Peter's poverty was a defining aspect for most of his career. When Vulture was introduced, his long-time partner has just backstabbed him and made it impossible for Toomes to profit from his life's work, and then there were later stories with him trying to get money for his daughter and his grandson.
Norman Osborne had everything Peter wanted, enough money to provide for his family, a big tech company with which to flex his mind, and by being a man who embodied Peter's ideals only to become Green Goblin makes it a personal betrayal of Peter's admiration.
Dock Ock plays off the broody, bullied, Ayn Rand fanboy Peter was as a highschooler. He doesn't wait for things to get caught in his 'web', he reaches out with his strong arms and takes as much as he can hold for himself.
Kraven plays into Spider-Man's underdog thing, because in Man vs Beast, Man is the underdog, and in Kraven vs Spider-Man, Spidey's the one forced into the role of beast.
That's the kinda thing I mean by themes,
>>81584464
It was why GG threw her off the bridge, according to the later storyline. But Gwen gives birth to the twins in Europe before returning to get killed by the Goblin in the USA. The twins are then found and raised by Norman.
>>81584481
Oh I see. Nice touch yeah.
>>81584502
but....wasn't she with Pete this whole time? How did she slip away for 9 months to Europe? aaa
>>81584368
No, that is Tommy Lee Jones. Don't worry about it.
>>81584464
>>81584502
Mind you literally every other writer dropped this plot and it hasn't been mentioned even once since then.
>>81584033
>Yeah, just as I thought.
>He hasn't done shit.
You're a fucking idiot. As I said, fuck off to Death Battle comments section. You people are not welcome on this board.
>Who is Spideys definitive villain?
The Captain Cold to his Flash is the Shocker, the Lex to his Superman is Osborn/Fisk, the Joker to his Batman is Venom/Osborn.
Spidey doesn't really have a singular villain that truly stands against him and everything he does.
Unless you count J.J.
>>81584510
>but....wasn't she with Pete this whole time? How did she slip away for 9 months to Europe? aaa
No, she DOES go to Europe for awhile after her dad dies.
>>81584528
Oh right. Huh, fair enough.
>>81584526
Would the sum of all that then be Man-wolf? Or whatever he was called when he had to put the big yellow suit on.
>>81584510
Gwen went on a trip to Europe not looking pregnant, and came back not looking pregnant either, the twins remained behind. Yeah it was weak but fans swallowed it eventually.
>>81584515
It was briefly touched upon during the last Secret Wars when a rezzed Norman went after Spider-Gwen. With relevant rape face.
>>81584284
You should probably read Superior Foes.
>>81584481
Even guys like Electro and Sandman were given Great Power, but they just used it to commit robberies.
Scorpion was turned into a monsterreally, just a guy in a suit with a mechanical tail on his backbecause scorpions prey on spiders.
J. Jonah Jameson is Spider-man's most persistent, influential and formidable enemy, though.
>>81584566
>fans swallowed it eventually.
That is a goddamned lie and you know it.
>>81584314
>I've always found it absurd that, no matter how agile or muscular the Kingpin is, that he would stand half a chance in a 1-on-1 fight against a guy who can lift a car.
That's why he doesn't. Fisk in the comic got his ass handed in a 1-on-1 fight against Peter.
>>81584606
Sandman advised the Avengers for a while and is generally portrayed as the reluctant crook.
And the status quo Spidey's most persistent, influential, and fomidable enemy.
>>81583792
Yeah, it's not everyday you get an arch-nemesis that can be two villains at once.
>>81584284
I don't care about the rest but the Vulture is the greatest villain of all time.
He is old enough to collect social security and his sole power is flight, which is like the salad dressing of superpowers. It gets added to other powers to give them more flavor. But not Vulture, that's all he had. And it was all in his dark green pinstriped suit, he didn't even have powers. Yet he routinely battles someone ten times younger and a thousand times stronger than him.
That takes balls.
>>81584647
>Fisk in the comic got his ass handed in a 1-on-1 fight against Peter.
Most of his villains would be straight up dead if he fought seriously.
It says something when a canon aspect of his routine is that his shtick is intended to distract people from how terrifying he is as an entity when stacked up against most of the people he deals with.
It also says something that he keeps a black suit on hand just in case he ever wants to go full revenge murderer.
>>81583474
Marvel editorial.
That or Mephisto. Guy destroyed his whole continuity
>>81584519
Shitpost harder.
>>81584606
>Even guys like Electro and Sandman were given Great Power, but they just used it to commit robberies.
This is the most irritating thing about Spider-Mans cast of villains outside of the big ones.
Fucking Electro for example....the guy has insane powers, with his power set he could be an A list villain for almost ANYBODY in Marvel let alone just Spidey....yet he's written as some goofus.
This is somewhat endearing, the idea of these blue collar super criminals, but it's also fucking irritating considering oh yeah....THEYRE PRETTY FUCKING STRONG
>>81584146
You have to have an absolutely abhorrent memory if you can't remember the first issue.
>>81584725
Read less comics harder.O wait...
>>81584107
HE WAS DEAD AT THE TIME.
HE HAD BEEN DEAD FOR LIKE 20 YEARS.
>>81584745
>Fucking Electro for example....the guy has insane powers, with his power set he could be an A list villain for almost ANYBODY in Marvel let alone just Spidey....yet he's written as some goofus.
Is it wrong, though? I mean, not everyone is there for the power trip, destruction and conquest of the world. Some are just there to make some money and wouldn't care about upper motives.
>>81584018
Venom's solo comics were pretty shit, anon. Best thing he starred in during the Eddie era was Venom/Hulk.
>>81584748
I said reoccuring villain, I meant as in being the 1st villain to make a second appearance.
I remember Chameleon's first appearance, with his silly coat-with-lots-of-pockets that was supposedly the secret to his disguise proficiency.
>>81584745
>tfw the Power to the People Electro from Gauntlet never shows up in any adaptions
>>81584789
No they weren't, you just didn't like them. Big difference.
>HURR IM NOT A FAN OF CHARACTER
>I AM THE OFFICIAL JUDGE OF WHETHER THE CHARACTERS COMICS ARE GOOD
I hate sushi, you won't find me rating sushi restaurants.
>>81584284
Listen, I'm not gonna argue that shitters like Scorpion, Electro or Beetle are deep, and I don't even fucking like the Green Goblin, but you're casting a very wide net from what I can only assume is a place of ignorance. Spider-Man has had so many books that, by sheer volume of content, a good chunk of his rogue's gallery is actually pretty fleshed out. That's to say nothing of arcs and books dedicated solely to characterizing them.
But my argument is pointless, because you've already painted a narrative where anyone who disagrees with the entire set of villains being shallow is just some fanboy Spider-Man shitter who is biased due to their love of arachno-cock.
>>81583474
I can't even remember one
>>81584781
It's not wrong exactly but it's annoying when Marvel generally has so few villains ever made out to be "big guns". Like fucking spread it out, guys like Electro and Scorpion don't need to be Magneto or Doom level megalomaniacs but they should still be far bigger threats than they're treated as regardless of their motivation
>>81584968
Spidey kicks the shit out of them on a regular basis, why in the fuck would they even try to be an Avengers tier crisis and risk drawing the attention of someone that will fucking kill them?
They don't need to hold the entire city hostage or something retarded like that to make a fuckton of cash and retire to some island.
>>81584910
What the fuck are you on about?
I LIKE Venom, but that's independent of my assessment that books like Lethal Protector, Separation Anxiety, Funeral Pyre, The Madness, The Mace (FUCK that one) were pretty shit and PAD's goofy Venom/Hulk teamup was the best we got.
>>81584953
>not remembering The Spot
The fuck?
>>81584018
>He stopped being a Spider-Man villain and became an anti hero almost right after his debut
You mean 75 issues later. He buries the hatchet with Spider-Man in ASM #375.
>>81585013
He's so overlooked, it makes no sense.
>>81584629
Where is this from?!
>>81585013
Didn't he turn out to be a good guy?
>>81583474
It will always be Norman
>>81584284
Yeah, history kinda cemented Goblin at the top of the list. That said, I think there's a duality to work with there - Osborn is pretty much everything Peter wanted to be when he grew up. Rich, successful businessman leading a globally recognized science lab, with a good family - except Norman twisted every bit of that, because he utterly lacks Peter's moral center. There's a line from Ultimate Spider-Man that I always thought would be perfect for Osborn - "It just so happens that my work completely perverts and destroys every single part of you and your life." That's who Norman Osborn SHOULD be - the brilliant scientist/business mogul who, when he hates someone, does absolutely everything he can to ruin them utterly and completely - and then laughs about it.
Venom hasn't been a reasonable contender for arch-villain practically since he was introduced, though. Shit, it's been more than a decade since Eddie Brock even WAS Venom.
As to the rest of his rogues - I don't think you can give Spidey shit for his rogues not growing out of bank robbers if you're bringing up Flash, the guy whose bank robbers ORGANIZED to... rob banks. They're organized, but they're still bank robbers. Besides, good visual appeal matters. Characters like Ghost Rider, Dazzler, Glob Herman, they got multiple chances to GET characterizations because of their noteworthy appearances.
>>81585235
I hate everything this stands for.
>>81584993
>Spidey kicks the shit out of them on a regular basis
Part of the problem. They could easily be much larger threats to Spider-Man JUST BECAUSE of their powers, but they are written as bumbling clowns who can't ever do a single thing right
>>81585163
Marvel did some one-shots years ago which were "Stan Lee meets..." In Stan Lee meets Dr. Strange, Bendis and Bagley did backup story featuring Impossible Man reacting to the state of the Marvel Universe.
>>81585010
Well that's like, your opinion, MAN.
Although I don't see how you "like" Venom when you think all of his comics are shitty, that doesn't make any sense...do you mean to say you like the concept of Venom? You like how he looks? How can you like a comic book character while hating their comics....
In either case I liked most of those when they came, still do, and I'm not alone in that opinion....so by saying "hurr Venom would be forgotten if not for action figures" or whatever retarded point was made is wrong. Venom is a very popular character and not ALL of us are casuals, some of us actually have read the comics and enjoyed them.
>>81585413
>Well that's like, your opinion, MAN
C-Cletus?
>>81585380
More
Spiderman=Batman
Joker=Osborn
They both have psychologically tortured their heroes
Bane=Venom
They both posed great physical threat to their heroes and is often seen as a more brute version of said hero, this is a rogue fighting their heroes' game
Doc Ock=Riddler
have posed emotional and intellectual threat to their respective heroes, used their brains more than brawns
>>81585530
http://brianmichaelbendis.tumblr.com/post/65112217046/stan-lee-meets-the-impossible-man-by-brian-bendis
>>81585370
>They could easily be much larger threats to Spider-Man JUST BECAUSE of their powers
Spider-man is one of the smartest people on the planet, has psychic powers which react to both general and precise threats, and regularly fights people well BELOW his weight class in terms of both strength and speed.
Even if their powers are conceptually dangerous to Spider-man, that doesn't mean they are in practice.
>>81585370
Many of Spidey's rogues have sent him to the hospital. I'm not sure what you expect.
>>81585870
>I'm not sure what you expect.
It just seems silly to me at times is all. A guy like Shocker, Kraven, or Vulture...yeah I can see them being kind of small time. But Electro? Scorpion SHOULD be as strong as Spider-Man, which is pretty damn strong, so what the hell...I know it isn't all about power level bullshit, but you'd think it still would amount to something.
I just feel like some of Spidey's villains could be of much bigger importance in the Marvel universe than they are, and probably would be realistically. They don't need to be would be conquerers or anything but jeez, they should be portrayed as more than simple thugs and punks.
>>81586134
>Scorpion SHOULD be as strong as Spider-Man, which is pretty damn strong, so what the hell...I know it isn't all about power level bullshit, but you'd think it still would amount to something.
Pretty sure he's stronger physically, and that he's one of the people who sent him to the hospotal.
Weird that you'd use Kraven as an example of small-time since he "killed" Spidey.
You're just autisming on powerlevels a bit, have a drink it will pass.
>>81585413
>How can you like a comic book character while hating their comics...
It's almost like a character can be good in some books but bad in others, especially when they go from being an antagonist or supporting cast member to the protagonist. I mean fuck, 90s Superman was almost unanimously terrible and 90's Spidey mostly sucked ass, but that doesn't stop them from being good characters or having good stories before or after this.
>"hurr Venom would be forgotten if not for action figures" or whatever retarded point was made is wrong.
I never said anything like this, but it's true that Venom's design plays a large role in his popularity. He could have appeared 1/10 as much from 89 to 96, and NOT spawned the other symbiotes, and NOT have a single book to his credit...and he still would have been an iconic Spidey villain, perhaps moreso due to a lack of oversaturation, because of his connection to Peter, his connection to the Black Suit era and Secret Wars, his design, and his personality.
>Venom is a very popular character and not ALL of us are casuals, some of us actually have read the comics and enjoyed them.
You are literally a fanboy who resorts to ad homenim if anyone suggests your favored character starred in something of poor quality. People like you are why DC/Marvel's shit practices are allowed to perpetuate themselves.
>>81585413
I don't think a casual would both know what Venom: The Mace is AND know how shit it is.
>>81584284
>There is no interesting symbolism between the two, no mirror or opposite status that tends to define a archvillain
Both are trickster figures, wear opposite colors of each other, and their costumed personas are their "true" selves.
>>81586409
>Weird that you'd use Kraven as an example of small-time since he "killed" Spidey.
By small time I mean I can see him never amounting to more than a guy Spider-Man has to keep in line. Scorpion should be the kind of threat that even other heroes have to deal with more, hes as strong as Spidey if not stronger like you say....so he should be a much bigger threat in universe than "oh, one of that spider kids chumps"
>>81586422
>It's almost like a character can be good in some books but bad in others
And that's subjective. What you think are good Venom stories are likely not what I think are, I like Venom as an anti-hero and think he should have continued to have his own stories not even connected to Spider-Man.
>You are literally a fanboy who resorts to ad homenim if anyone suggests your favored character starred in something of poor quality.
No, I'm saying you don't decide what's "good" or "bad". You're just a /co/ parrot who says shit you heard someone else say.
HURRR LETHAL PROTECTOR WAS BAD CAUSE I HEARD THATS THE POPULAR OPINION
POPULAR OPINION SAYS VENOM IS SHIT, I AGREE CUZ I WANNA BE LE COMICS MAN
>>81583474
Evil Aunt May
>>81584093
Chameleon was the first supervillain to make an appearence, not the first recurring one.
Why are the people who post "U DUN READ COMICS" always the ones who don't know shit? It's a pattern in this board.
>>81584344
I still can't believe that got past editorial. Wonder if they will ever officially retcon it now that Gwen is a lot more popular now.
>>81586924
>I still can't believe that got past editorial.
Why? Girls, "fake geeks", and attention whore "feminists" being into comics is a new phenomenon, shit like that used to be common place
>>81586751
That woman knows no fear
>>81586992
You quoted the wrong part. I can't believe it got past editorial because it was a horrible story that had no business being put to print when they weren't allowed to make Peter the father of her kids as the original story intended. That part isn't really related to the "girls". Just shit editorial.
>>81586668
But Scorpion's a idiot and a small-minded crook. When he teams up with people to even actually kick Spidey's ass, he gets betrayed and fucked over half the time. He's basically evil(er), angrier, just as autistic Shocker.
Firepower isn't everything.
>>81586746
Jesus fella, you need to calm down. We all know it's subjective, you're the only one taking some guy not liking your husbando so seriously.
Get some fresh air or something.
>>81586751
only one woman can stop her
>>81586924
>got past editorial
wasn't it Quesada's idea?
>>81584314
Roderick Kingsley will always be my favorite Spider-Man foe. I know Osborn fucked over Peter a lot, but Hobgoblin was the superior Goblin in my opinion. He actually knows when to call it quits, which makes him far more dangerous than other villains. You'll never know when he might come and strike back.
>>81587226
Yeah I know that's what he is but it's in my opinion a waste of a good design and a waste of potential for what could be a decent villain if any work was put into it
>>81587552
But he is a decent villain as is. Loser villains are great.
Actually, I think you're all wrong.
It's Dan Slott.
>>81583621
>came VERY close to murdering Black Cat when she and Spidey were an item (leading to one of Peter's few moments where he truly lost his temper and just fucked his shit up into tomorrow),
what issue? sounds interesting
>>81588274
It was right before the 1st appearance of Hobgoblin which was #238 I think. So it's in either Spectacular or Amazing in 1982 or 1983.
>>81583536
This.
/thread
>>81588343
I'm pretty sure the majority of Spidey and Cat's relationship was in Spectacular, so it's probably in that
>>81583536
Fisk
Green Goblin
Doc Ock.
Green Goblin is more like a Dark Seid. Powerful but only threat sporadically.
Fisk is the real arching, the one who keep bringing trouble to Spidey on a regular basis. He is his real Nemesis.
Doc Ock is more of the most re-ocurring B-villain, on par with the Rhino, Chocker, Vulture or Electro. He just come on top of those secondary threats.
>>81588385
cheers
>>81588343
found it, spectacular spiderman 76
Green Goblin or whatever title Osborn goes under these days. Though, to be fair, Marvel is much less good guy vs bad guy and much more "superpowered asshole party" these days, and that's great.
Also, can't forget Shocker.
>>81589231
>whatever title Osborn goes under these days
just Norman Osborn at the moment
>>81586814
>Misunderstand anon asking "first villain to reappear" as "first villain WHO reappears".
>Hypocrisy
It was miscommunication, and that's okay. I thought that anon hadn't read Ditko's run so they didn't know and told them they should read it, but they corrected me.
No need to white knight.
>>81583536
Correct
>>81583474
>70's Green Goblin
>80's Doc Oc
>90's Venom
>00's sort of Norman again
>>81586746
>And that's subjective. What you think are good Venom stories are likely not what I think are
No shit? Nobody implied otherwise.
>I like Venom as an anti-hero and think he should have continued to have his own stories not even connected to Spider-Man.
...why do you think that has anything to do with the Eddie Brock solo books being bad? It's a matter of the writing, not the character or setting.
>No, I'm saying you don't decide what's "good" or "bad".
...Yeah? Do you just...not get that opinions don't have to be qualified with an "In my opinion"? You told the anon you were arguing with that Venom had plenty of great comics and I disagreed, saying that outside of a particular special the books with Venom on the title were all pretty bad back when Brock was Venom.
>You're just a /co/ parrot who says shit you heard someone else say.
>HURRR LETHAL PROTECTOR WAS BAD CAUSE I HEARD THATS THE POPULAR OPINION
>POPULAR OPINION SAYS VENOM IS SHIT, I AGREE CUZ I WANNA BE LE COMICS MAN
Yeah, see here? You're doing it again. You're attacking me and implying things about me because I don't agree with you. If that's not ad hominem what the fuck is?
If I was just parroting opinions because I'm a Venom hater or whatever, why would I say Venom is a character I like and that he worked in other books both before Lethal Protector and after Eddie lost it (and after Gargan because fuck that)?
Why would I specifically point out PAD's Hulk v Venom issue, where they team HP to fight Dr. Badvibes if I was just agreeing with common opinion?
How would I KNOW about the Hulk/Venom issue and its goofy antics if I went on hearsay? That issue isn't even popular.
Venom's fun, and I'm still butthurt Marvel undid Anti-Venom. I don't know what the fuck to say to explain to you that I just think the Venom solos in the 90s and early 00s were mostly shit, since you take any mention of poor quality as some sort of personal attack and start slinging out baseless accusations.
>>81584314
Hobgoblin was really great in the 80's. He was that scheming villain that always got away and slipped out if Spidey's fingers each time he thought he got him.
But he could not survive the 90's "all lame non HARDCORE EXTREME" villains had to go. So they portrayed him as a pathetic weak shit tier villain that got slapped around too much.
>>81589957
The 90s were the worst thing to ever happen to Spider-Man. At least we got Bagley out of it.
>>81589957
Black Cat just torched goblin nation so there's a good chance Kingsley will move in to fill the power vacuum, assuming Norman keeps fucking around in Africa and the Middle East
>>81584284
Spidey's villains all have backgrounds that explain their psychology, which can sometimes mirror Peter's, or the person he used to be.
Mysterio's father was a negligent jackass who barely acknowledged his son's existence, to the point of talking about him like he wasn't even there, which prompted Beck into becoming an attention whore obsessed with spectacle.
Vulture's brother was a crippled wreck who once tried to force Toomes to mercy kill him, which caused Toomes to become terrified of ever becoming or being regarded as "weak and pathetic".
Electro's father was abusive and a deadbeat, while his mother was overprotective to the point neuroticism, quashing all of his ambitions and dreams because she didn't believe in him enough to think that he wouldn't fail and be utterly crushed by that.
>>81589363
>shilling AFRICOM and globalization this hard
And they say Marvel is leftist
>>81589938
It's bulverism more than ad hominem.
>>81592043
Fair enough.
>>81585235
>not "It was a snap!"
I'm mad.
>>81583520
>Slott can say all the bullshit he wants about Ock being Peter's real archnemesis, he'll never come close to Norman.
I thought that was supposed to be the point of Goblin Nation: that Otto, despite managing to kill and replace Peter (mind you, only because Tiberius Stone had managed to overload his Spider-Sense, forcing Peter to ignore it right when the Gold Octobot was closing in), couldn't keep up with Norman or match up to Peter as a superhero.
