Why is every cartoon made by Christians crap? No fedoras please.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qClC-L_Pv4c
because inserting Christianity kill dramatic tension .once you say there is an all powerful being looking out for our heros best interest and nothing exists to challenge him then its hard to care about the stakes
If by "made by Christians" you mean "made by Christians who are trying to actively evangelize through the medium of cartoons," then the reason is because nobody unironically likes blatant propaganda. Also, crazed Evangelicals who are "witnessing" to others have a terrible sense of humor and lose whatever social skills they might possess otherwise. They go full autist.
The fact is that a lot of the greats of animation, including Walt Disney himself, were Christian. But they didn't use there animation skills in service to Christianity. Generally speaking, they kept their religious and professional lives largely separate from each other. This not only keeps you viable to a general audience, it also keeps your professionalism intact.
If you let your talents in entertainment become co-opted by some "higher calling" you get crap because you put the message ahead of the medium. This causes you to get sloppy and focus on telling the audience how to live their lives instead of providing some amount of beauty, entertainment, or other artistic boon.
It's not just Christians either. Look at the environmentalist propaganda from the early 90's. That suffered from the same problems you see in crap like this. Even if you get a large budget, a star cast, and excellent production values, if the result is overly preachy it isn't going to work.
This is now a sexual Garfield thread
>>81570150
Why are terrans flying a protoss ship?
>>81570150
>Why is every cartoon made by Christians crap?
More like
>Why is everything made explicitly to pander to Christians crap?
I'm not religious, but people can be Christians and make things, but when they try to focus on a message instead of a story it ends up bland.
Look at Bibleman- the show isn't allowed to have villains that are scary or threatening, so everything has to be jokey and have lighthearted musical numbers. Compare that to Power Rangers, which is still meant to be family friendly but is still allowed to have actual stakes.
There are some Christian games that, while not good, are at least sort of interesting. Specifically Saints of Virtue which would be a neat horror game if you removed the Bible verses.
>http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/christianfps/christianfps.htm
There's also Heaven the Game if you want angel titties. It at least has interesting art direction
>https://youtu.be/_nZPBsudWhk
>>81570852
This as well. I've heard this is common for people who are late-life converts because they feel they have something to prove, or the hardcore Jesus Camp crazies who aren't allowed to do anything else.
Christians aren't the only ones guilty of this, either. Look at how Frank Miller's work suffered once he started focusing on his militant right-wing politics, and he's someone who was already talented. Or Ayan Rand.
Mods please don't delete this thread. Good discussion can be had here.
>>81571232
I have seen women in real life who look like that girl and they definitely do not go to church.
>>81570150
It's incredibly hard to market evangelical Christian animation projects to investors.
>>81570967
Johnny Ryan threads are my kind of threads.
>>81571232
Holy shit that girl looks like she's from The Pit's artwork.
>>81571340
It's also impossible to make something secular that draws on Christian myth without angering those same evangelicals.
![jim_by_beloved_creature[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/vOe521b.jpg "jim_by_beloved_creature[1].jpg")
run that by me again?
>tfw no animated literal adaptation of the book of revelation ever
>>81571518
Who?
>>81571575
He's a Christian, but his work does not draw on Christianity.
>>81570852
>It's not just Christians either. Look at the environmentalist propaganda from the early 90's. That suffered from the same problems you see in crap like this
ah captain planet, I like singing the theme song from time to time
but yeah that was blatant propaganda even if it was for good purpose, all propaganda comes off as lies
>>81570150
Have you literally never seen Veggietales, anon.
>>81571642
>He's a Christian, but his work does not draw on Christianity.
>Why is every cartoon made by Christians crap?
move them goalposts, OP
>>81571642
I think he also goes by the name John Persons. He does a lot of BBC and cuckold art.
What about Prince of Egypt?
>>81571638
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Jubilees
Book of Jubilees would be cool too.
>>81571651
Admittedly Captain Planet is probably one of the better kinds message-driven shows; at least the characters had some personality.
>>81571758
actually this tard isn't me.
>>81571758
I'm not the OP. I'm >>81571232. I was saying that you proved my point that it's not "things made by Christians" that are bad, but "things made to pander to Christians."
Friendly reminder that Butch Hartman wrecked season 3 of Danny Phantom because he became a born again Christian.
>>81571759
>He does a lot of BBC and cuckold art.
Disgusting.
>>81571806
>Book of Jubilees
what is this non-canon heresy?
I remember that there was an animated tv series that is based on the bible stories that were actually pretty based. The one I remember the most was The binding of Isaac animated in stop motion, and the fall of Lucifer hand drawned in high detail. I just can't remember what the series was called.
>>81570852
>It's not just Christians either. Look at the environmentalist propaganda from the early 90's. That suffered from the same problems you see in crap like this. Even if you get a large budget, a star cast, and excellent production values, if the result is overly preachy it isn't going to work.
Bingo. Jew here, and our own born-again types (loony Israeli colonists, anyone?) don't even know what a sense of humor IS.
These people tend to talk down to their kids—and to think cartoons and comics are for kids. Therefore, almost any example of cartoons or comics from these true believers is embarrassing, preachy, condescending crap.
"Mendy and the Golem," anyone?
I'm actually an environmentalist, but I'd never try to convert others with preachy junk like Captain Planet. That's the kind of thing that causes kids to grow up and be pro-pollution.
>>81571941
I'm pretty sure it's actually part of canon in Africa or South America.
>>81572139
>canon in Africa or South America
You're not helping your case
![veggietales[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ZaYkedU.jpg "veggietales[1].jpg")
>>81570150
>implying
>>81571982
Found it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfAgfWdImsE&nohtml5=False
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbPJgVWPpPM&nohtml5=False
>>81570150
man oh man I remember watching this
aside from being blatant propaganda, the fact that making a good product in order to be profitable isn't their no. 1 goal usually detracts from the quality
>>81572744
That's actually a fair point. Veggie Tales was a lot of fun when I was growing up.
I can even still sing some of the songs.
>>81571806
>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Jubilees
>Book of Jubilees would be cool too.
I realize this thread is about christian subject matter but I was still VERY disappointed.
>Why is every cartoon made by Christians crap?
Because religion in itself stifles creativity and artistic license. That's why any impressive piece regarding religion either criticized it in some fashion, downplayed it, or the craftsmen/creators were paid big time.
You don't get impressive architecture and murals without leeway and some dosh.
>>81570150
hello new reaction pic
>>81573310
>>81572889
These. If you're making me work, don't give me a damn prayer, give me a damn wage.
I thought Storykeepers , Flying House, The Greatest Adventure: Stories from the Bible were ok. If they made a WH40K cartoon that was somehow both kid friendly and accurate to the Biblical source; I would watch it religiously.
Anyone read The Action Bible? I've been thinking of checking it out for the novelty.
How about Prince of Egypt though? That shit was good.
>>81571232
What's the purpose of this game other than some kind of test to see how long before you start touching yourself at an Axis talks to you about scripture cut scene?
>>81576707
>>81572744
If we're criticizing blatant Christian propaganda then Veggietales take the cake (not including that new Dreamworks show, Larryboy or the theatrical movies).
>>81576753
>Be listening to vaporwave
>see this webm
Holy sheet, don't tell /mu/ about this movie.
>>81576753
this is SFM porn, right?
![220px-The_Tragedy_of_Man_film_poster[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/eOREZkD.jpg "220px-The_Tragedy_of_Man_film_poster[1].jpg")
>>81570150
Op can resume sucking cocks now.
>>81573310
>what is the Italian Renaissance
>>81571565
>It's also impossible to make something secular that draws on Christian myth without angering those same evangelicals.
It's sad that only Japan seems to be able to do this. The actual mythology of the bible is crazy awesome shit.
>>81576707
Yes
>>81576753
Ive been looking for a torrent of this everywhere
>>81580453
Hey, better than Islam at least.
?
>>81570150
Because if you want to make a cartoon for kids, it's kind of hard to involve the story of death and renewal that's at the core of Christianity.
So Christian cartoons tend to revolve around the peripheral elements that make for dull cartoons, like the moralizing.
>>81570150
Because most of it is low budget and directed at children. They're not exactly worse than other non-religious children shows in that same vein, I don't remember Bibleman or that show about the Space Penguins being particularly worse than all the other obscure crap when I was a kid.
Low production values always hurt a show, but that can't be helped. Not to mention you'd technically be be pushing propaganda, which is hard to make compelling or thought-provoking like a good show should be. It'd be better if more Christian shows worked around a theme/conflict that was applicable to people's (children AND adults) daily lives rather than bludgeoning people on the nose G.I.Joe style every episode. With that, the episodic 'trouble gets cleanly introduced and solved' thing reminiscent of earlier cartoons needs to go too. Children are capable of understanding (and appreciating) more complex story arcs, where bad things don't get reversed immediately (if at all).
I think it's certainly possible to have a good Christian show for kids. But it'd definitely have a bit on the intense side of things.
>>81570852
this is pretty much spot on
when you're preaching to the choir from the start, you've already failed to create compelling television
it's pretty difficult for Christian media to overcome this. and they probably don't care either because their target is literally the "choir"
Because they go in with the intent to make a religious show first and a good show second. It's the same reason why a lot of the SJW-pandering shit is bad, because instead of the content being made and the politics fitting in where they make sense, They are too focused on the direct "we have to preach to these kids".
There are other reasons too, but I can't quite express them.
With that said, Veggietales is still funny. They do a good job with that.
>>81581611
Pretty sure that was made by Jews.
I remember thinking Adventures in Odyssey was okay as a kid.
>>81570150
>>81570852
Christians are very shallow people for the most part. Shallow people concerned primarily with how they appear to other shallow people. Shallow in the their judgement and shallow in their own thoughts. (The Evangelicals at least).
So everything they make that's Christian has this mark of never thinking very deeply about anything and just using the most blatantly repeated stuff. Nothing that remotely can be controversial, like a straight lack of genuine opinion on anything? Everything has to be nice and pretty looking while not rock anyone's boat too much so no violence or emotions other than happiness or Satan.
I grew up in a fluctuating Christian home, we had a lot of church friends, the kind that won't let their kids see or do anything that's not labeled "Christian" automatically. So I saw a lot examples of this stuff. It always felt so devoid of any substance.
>>81571642
In the game, you literally go to hell.
>>81571806
The Book of Enoch is the best left out Book. If they left that book in, Christianity would of had a lot cooler mythology to draw on.
>>81572792
Dang, I'd totally forgotten about this. They used to show it on Sunday mornings on BBC2 and I'd watch it because no other stations were showing cartoons.
one time i was flipping the channel and there was a jesus cartoon on
i was like "okay, i have nothing better to do, let's watch some jesus cartoon"
and like, not even a minute into it, i was bored out of my mind
they were on a ship or something and i just didn't care
but then a storm started, and the ship ripped right the hell in half
and jesus was standing on the front of the boat, and just like, surfing that shit back to shore
there were only like two kid survivors or something, i can't actually remember what was going on and i never went to bible class because i went to catholic school and we just had true/false questions with obvious answers, so i didn't know what story was trying to be told
but after jesus had surfed that boat corpse to shore and saved those kids, i was hooked for the rest of the show
the kids started singing or something and i was being brought out of it again, but then suddenly there were some god damn snakes
the snakes were scaring the hell out of the kids and they were like JESUS WHAT DO WE DO
and then jesus showed them exactly what to do
you pick them up and throw them in your island survival campfire, where they die
jesus just fucking murdered those snakes, with fire
it was like the most hardcore thing i've seen in a kids cartoon, and it was something jesus did
that was a good cartoon
i want more cartoons about that jesus, even if there's singing kids
Japan figured it out with Eva and allegory.
> Muh angels are coming to kill us all
>>81581567
Me too, but no luck.
I'm almost tempted to buy it just to upload it, but it costs about three times as much money as I'm willing to spend on a curiosity like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJUsH6IRwD0
>>81582793
Japan added that shit in later after the director focused on vagurly Freudiab psychological themes and then realized that that's not really a good guideline for mecha imagery.
So he added Judeo-Christian imagery because it looks/sound weird and foreign to Japanese folks and therefore is cool.
>>81570150
ugh there's only 4 episodes
>>81583108
>it looks/sound weird and foreign to Japanese folks and therefore is cool.
Nothing wrong with that. I think the Christian's mythos can give good story the same way writers do with the greco-roman's mythos.
Just look at Evangelion or Angel Sanctuary. It's best when faith is completely detached from the mythology.
>>81583206
I'm pretty much doing this with my own super hero universe. I'm an ex-Christian atheist. I think I can handle using the religion's mythology without kiddie gloves on but also know them enough to not piss them off too much though.
Don't know how Fuhrer Grobartig drinking from the holy grail so he can use Excalibur and can only be stopped with the lance of Longinus is going to go over with them. Well the lance is needed to reverse the transformation into a pure Ayran that occurs when one uses god-cells.
>>81581611
Made by Jews. If Christians made it,m it would have ultimately been about jesus
>>81570150
>veggie tales
>crap
>>81582272
Fun. Man being a Christian kid was alright.
>>81582272
>That episode where Eugene goes to HellThat was technically a audio series episode, but still...
>>81570150
I enjoyed the bibleman thread
>>81576753
This is clearly a succubus trying to enthrall my penis and steal my soul
>>81570150
>Not liking Prince of Egypt
>>81571232
>>81576753
>Axis is the player character's grandmother
>She is dressed like a prostitute and the camera is constantly making love to her curves
>This is meant to be a moral christian puzzle game
I am confused.
>>81581611
>>81585397
God was the real villain of Prince of Egypt.
Wasnt there a good cheesy anime about a boy and his robot that time travel to key points in biblical history? That was fine
>>81585429
Sexual repression is an ugly thing anon, and very common among the very religious.
>>81585874
I think partly it was a soulless marketing decision as well, to try and get "gamers" ie: teenage boys to buy their game by having such a hot piece of ass be your companion during the story.
>>81570572
Maybe they shouldn't have made their god such a mary sue then, goddamn religions are like a bunch of teenage brats in a versus debate.
>>81580064
>>what is the Italian Renaissance
A movement that doesn't contradict that post at all.
Because, like most monotheistic religions, Christianity is boring as fuck. The Abrahamic religions just consist of jews trying to out jew each other while their god, angels, and demons fuck their wives and play cruel pranks on the world. The entertainment value is very limited.
Also what >>81573310 said. It's a major Jewish/Christian/Islamic sin to not only make media about their holy figures but to consume it as well. They already tread on thin ice, so the most faithful have to play it safe.
>>81571904
Really?
>>81585844
Superbook?
>>81570150
You're asking the wrong question.
You're equating material that panders to the Christian demographic with Christian creators/authors, and while there's overlap that's not fair at all to people who know how to make great stuff that let their religious background bleed through in a more tactful manner instead of being preachy.
This is related to the concept of adiaphora in Lutheranism, which is how the subject of fantasy and fiction is generally approached.
You can tell great stories that draw upon Christian themes, you just need to be subtle about it. Stuff like:
>the salvation of humanity from itself
>the idea of a messianic figure
>the struggle against a darker inner nature
>finding redemption for wrongdoing
>the supernatural struggle of good versus evil
are all themes that can resonate to a Christian or a non-Christian. Granted, they're not necessarily exclusive to Christianity but they often are linked.
The best stories are accessible to everybody, after all.
>>81580453
Most Western Christians are only familiar with the Gospels, which aren't very exciting.
>>81585999
But if you're going to make a game like this with... let's say limited appeal, then why bother trying to broaden the demographic at the last second in a way that will probably turn off your target (and otherwise only) demographic?
>>81573310
Your ignorance is as amusing as your arrogance, given that you've unwittingly illustrated your post with monuments constructed solely for religious purposes.
>>81570150
Because evangelicals often forget that how you present a message is just as important if not more then the actual message.
That's why VeggieTales is actually considered pretty good even though it's an evangelical christian cartoon, because they don't forget this. They know that sometimes people just want to have fun and they'll put down the Bible to sing a song about cheeseburgers or animals with silly names.
Can anyone explain to me the lore of the Biblemanverse? I'm actually curious.
Do all the wildly different bibleman suits mean something? Have there been multiple biblemen? Is it just the costume getting better as the producers managed to get a better budget? Why is he purple sometimes but silver other times?
What are his powers exactly beyond having a lightsaber?
>>81585831
Its still great
>>81570150
Hey, now, VeggieTales was pretty good back in the day.
>>81576753
more webms of her please
>>81570150
Full of plot-holes and they always reboot the series entirely around halfway through without any explanation.
Message fiction is always terrible.
That said, a story with a worldview informed by Christianity is always better, see Lord of The Rings, Chronicles of Narnia, or the works of Dostoyevsky.
>>81590095
The Narnia books are pretty crap, especially when Aslan goes from 'just' lion-Jesus to literally God talking about how all these athiests and arabs are so stupid for not worshiping him and how Susan is a dumb bitch for turning away from him unlike all the other now dead kids.
>>81581611
Because it focused on the drama between the characters instead of preaching a message.
>>81588939
There's two Biblemen that I know of: the rich guy who was the first Bibleman, and the second bibleman whose parents were abusive.
Theit powers are having prayers answered, having a black friend, and having a smoking hot sassy A.I.
>>81570150
Because Christian media is mostly about how you should worship god because he is totally radical.
If you aren't Christian then you have no reason to give a shit about the deity, and being told to worship him because he is so almighty and refusing to is a sin is not a fun recreational activity.
>>81588075
>given that you've unwittingly illustrated your post with monuments constructed solely for religious purposes
Did you not read his post?
>>81586308
How so? It was a period that revitalized the arts and most works were focused on celebrating Christianity.
>>81570150
A large portion of cartoons are made by Christians. They just happen to also be good at their jobs.
It's the low-budget cartoons made for the "D&D is satanic, videogames will drive you to kill, and Rap music was probably made by pagans" crowd who want an alternative to show their grandchildren. That's what you're looking at here.
Unfortunately, Faith alone does not make a good cartoon. Faith and actually doing good work as an animator does, but these are usually Evangelical Protestants we're talking about.
Faith AND Good Works aren't really their thing.
>>81572744
This T B H.
A shit ton of cartoons were made by Christians. Dangermouse was made by Christians, pretty much most cartoons that were made in the US before the last decade or so were made primarily by Christians. Almost every major animated series up until the last few decades in the West was made by Christians or at least had a large amount of Christians on staff. What you should REALLY be asking is "Why is every cartoon made by American Evangelical Christians for the purpose of proselyting for young people crap?" And the answer is simple; because they're nutters and they have no budget.
>>81594480
Or the Carolingian Renaissance which was heavily focused on theological works both in art and literature. The idea that Christianity is this restrictive thing (note that you're discussing a huge spectrum of different sects and branches with different theological approaches to pretty much every aspect of Christianity) is not true at all by and large in the West.
>>81570150
This looks like an awful show, but it could make a pretty decent PS1 game I bet.
Is there any animation outside of the Prince of Egypt that draws upon Christian source material and is super good? I'm compiling a list of books, movies, music, stuff like that that breaks the mold of what people consider to be 'Christian Entertainment'.
It's a shame that people who make media from religion, sexuality, gender, race, politics so frequently refuse to write anything that isn't just blatant propaganda that it just feels gross because of how shameless it is, instead of drawing from actually interesting source material and letting whatever they're writing about speak for itself.
>>81571232
I guess you can make an argument that the angels are taking forms to make the humans more comfortable around them. But that picture still bothers me, there's a reason the angels always told people to not be afraid whenever they appeared. But this is the first time I've even heard of this "Heaven the Game" so beyond that picture and what I was able to stomach of that video I don't know a thing about it.
>>81598625
>always
People reacting against fluffy/sexy angels have massively overstated this. Yes, in some contexts angels look like weird alien abominations. In other contexts, they looked exactly like humans. For example, in Sodom and Gomorrah, Lot's first reaction to the angels was offering them hospitality and arguing with them when they refused, which he wouldn't do if he was afraid of them. The other citizens all thought the angels were beautiful and wanted to rape them, which again they wouldn't have done if they were afraid. And I know someone is going to say that the angels blinded the citizens by revealing their "true forms" but this is a later cinematic interpolation like the Hebrew slaves building pyramids. The bible only ever says the angels blinded them, not that they transformed. You can' exactly "entertain angels unaware" if they were exclusively giant wheels with eyes.
>>81570852
I remember an article about this phenomena. They care more about the message itself then how it's delivered or the quality of the actual work.
>>81576753
Why is she wearing heels?
>>81585831
The bible did say god himself hardens the pharaoh's heart.
>>81599119
So grannie can get that angel dick.
>>81599119
Why is she wearing a lace up bustier? Why does she have massive fucking tits and a quantity of mascara that would make even a goth think twice? Because sex sells, even when you're selling religion.
>>81599181
And his dick, if Heaven the Game's angels are anything to go by.
