"He's my friend."
"So was I."
Was he really though? Did Cap and Iron Man ever interact enough for Tony to say something like that? They openly antagonized each other for almost the entire first Avengers movie and then they clashed again over trying to end a war before it starts in Age of Ultron. Not to mention, "language." I think Tony says the friend line to Steve because in our minds Captain America and Iron Man should be friends, but they haven't gotten nearly that close in the movies.
I doubt it's going to mean nearly as much on screen to see a barely established friendship get fractured.
>>81471833
I guess the beginning of Age of Ultron sort of implies that the Avengers had been working together for a while taking down Hydra bases around the world. While they don't really get along while they're on screen, it was implied that they had been spending more time together that we didn't see.
>>81471833
That's the thing, it's only Stark that thinks they're super good friends.
Tony has very few friends and because of his huge ego he thinks everyone likes him. There was an interview with RDJ where he says that Tony is jealous of Bucky and Sam because Cap clearly cares more about them and he feels ignored.
>>81471901
> Downey says, but he also admits: there’s some jealousy there. “I look at him like, ‘Oh, you and Falcon got a good thing going on, huh?’ He doesn’t really seem to give me the time of day.”
>And later, when Cap chooses his friend Bucky Barnes, a brainwashed assassin, over Tony … that’s the last straw.
>>81471833
>Was he really though? Did Cap and Iron Man ever interact enough for Tony to say something like that?
Cap in Age of Ultron seemed to be the one who was most willing to forgive Tony and focus on trying to stop Ultron as a team. I never saw them as friends really, but they did have a bonding scene on the Helicarrier after Coulson's death, and in the final battle, Tony defers to Steve's leadership, which, when you think about it, is actually a big deal for him, considering earlier in the film, he says "Following orders isn't really my style." And at the end of the film, they shake hands before parting ways, which seemed to indicate a mutual respect.
>>81471876
i guess so, it's just that...what good is character development we don't see?
>>81471901
>>81471922
>yfw civil war happens in the movies because of unrequited friendship triangle
the movies are so homo
>>81471945
>Cap senpai, please notice me.
Poor Stark, he just wants Steve to love him.
>>81471833
Iron Man is a very abrasive person, his only two friends, Pepper and Rhodes, constantly give him shit.
in Iron Man's narcissistic mind, that Cap also gives him shit is proof that he cares about him deeply, because Tony's life experiences tell him that the people who don't like him go out of their way to ignore him or else act nice to his face and only show their true opinions when they've got a knife in his back.
For the duration of the MCU since they met, Tony has thought of Cap as one of the only three people in the world who gives a damn about him, while Cap has just seen Tony as 'that asshole I have to work with'
>>81471833
Better than Batfleck's standards for what constitutes a friend.
IE someone whose mom shared a name with your mom.
>>81471969
Well I mean, have you seen Steve's tits? Who wouldn't want to be his friend.
>>81471973
I mostly find Iron Man annoying as fuck in the movies, but when you put it like that I'm starting to feel bad for him.
>>81471833
Tony's ego is big enough for him to believe that everyone is his friend. But Cap is real... He knows what real friendship is, and whatever he has with Stark... that ain't it.
Cap and Tony were never friends. Tony just doesn't know it.
>>81471973
That's a really interesting angle, I hope they touch on that in the movie. That for Tony he's losing what he considers to be a really close friend but he's barely a blip on Steve's radar.
>>81471945
>.what good is character development we don't see?
We have actually see their character development in both the Avengers movies though.
There is only so much you can cram in those movies and they make a good enough job at establishing their relationship and indicate how it has been going behind the scene.
>>81471973
That and in Cap's mind, Tony will never be even half the man he considered Howard to be.
Tony did earn Cap's respect when he took that nuke through the wormhole, but I think he lost it all when Tony kept bringing it up. In Cap's mind, a real hero, a soldier, doesn't need recognition for the deeds he's done. But Tony, oh, Tony, he needs that recognition.
>>81471973
>while Cap has just seen Tony as 'that asshole I have to work with'
That's the part I disagree with. You can see even in the first Avengers movie that Cap start to appreciate the man.
They actually get to become friend, and more importantly, brother in arms. They have fought together, side by side. This is the foundation of solid friendship.
The "Together" in Age of Ultron clearly display that Cap consider the avengers as being part of his family.
>>81471973
If he didn't consider the Avengers as his pals, then the sight of all of them dead wouldn't have pushed him into creating a murder bot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBmHxkddUnU
>>81471999
One of the most tragic things about Iron Man is that he makes all these fantastic weapons and armors to protect himself and the people around him, but everyone else tends to get hurt anyway.
Those soldiers at the start of IM1
Yinsen
Happy
Maya
Pepper
And now Rhodey in Civil War
>>81472050
A BLOO BLOO BLOO
>>81472052
Yeah, it's not like he can put a suit of armor around the world.
>>81472051
He does consider them a family of sorts, but he clearly likes some of them more than others.
Cap has a closer relationship with Widow, Sam, Thor than with Tony. I'd say he likes Tony the least out of all of the Avengers because he has the kind of personality that doesn't sit well with Cap.
>>81472050
>That and in Cap's mind, Tony will never be even half the man he considered Howard to be.
Factually worng see >>81472051
>They actually get to become friend, and more importantly, brother in arms. They have fought together, side by side. This is the foundation of solid friendship.
>The "Together" in Age of Ultron clearly display that Cap consider the avengers as being part of his family.
Cap saw howard as a smart guy who could provide him good equipment. they basically had the same friendship James Bond and Que had.
But Cap see Tony as a brother in arm, someone he has fight alongside.
>>81472052
Don't forget The Earth. Ultron was supposed to be its suit of armor.
>>81472005
>But Cap is real... He knows what real friendship is, and whatever he has with Stark... that ain't it.
>Cap and Tony were never friends. Tony just doesn't know it.
See >>81472051
>>81472099
>>81472050
They're not so different really:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0VM1lIMMtY
https://youtu.be/FRWNieb1O58?t=74
>>81472097
>Tony the least out of all of the Avengers because he has the kind of personality that doesn't sit well with Cap.
Not exactly. What is going on with Tony and Stark is that they have a sort of sibling rivalry where they keep bantering each other and one-man up each other. it's not the same kind of relationship he has with the other but it's just as strong.
>>81472111
quoting yourself a bunch doesn't make you more right
cap fought alongside rumlowe and that guy with the lazy eye
and also, you're forgetting that if the verb takes place in the present, it takes the (v)+s form. and the term is "brothers in arms". note the plural of arms.
>>81472019
They could have easily shown more friendly moments between the two. Most of the time they're together they're being assholes to each other. They could have toned that down.
>>81472136
>quoting yourself a bunch doesn't make you more right
I am just doing it to not rewrite the smae thing again, the points still stnads, though.
>cap fought alongside rumlowe and that guy with the lazy eye
Are you saying those guys don't matter to Cap?
>>81472148
>They could have easily shown more friendly moments between the two.
Not really. Like Is said, there is only so much you can put in a movie and they do a good job at implying what isn't shown.
>Most of the time they're together they're being assholes to each other. They could have toned that down.
I actually disagree, they are set up as having a sort of sibling-rivalry, which is a good lead up to Civil war.
I like when you get to see some mutual respect and maybe friendship in certain runs. Hickman's Avengers comes to mind.
>>81471833
> Vision's beam is bouncing off of Wanda.
> I hope it does not hit a black sidekick.
>>81471999
yeah you see how deeply cut he is in IM 2 when he's trying to admit to Pepper that he's dying and scared and she just ignores him to focus on work. According to the laws he thinks his life runs on, that's it, he's now dead to her and she'll never make time for him ever again just like his father never did.
between that and luring Rhodey in for one last row before letting him take the suit, he was almost definitely prepared to kill himself right there if hadn't noticed the solution to his father's puzzle
>>81472165
yeah, crossbones and other guy were coworkers at best even before strike turned into hydra
they were never friends.
rumlowe treated cap with deference but it was only out of respect for cap's skill as a soldier
>>81472193
for someone who hasn't read a lot of comics, how is their relationship portrayed?
does it work mainly because of the long history the two characters have?
>>81472165
What, now you think Cap and Rumlow get along?
>search google for Steve and Rumlow pic to add
>mostly get fanart of them boning
Kek.
>>81471973
I honestly hear this kind of interpretation of their relationship, and It doesn't make me root for Cap more. If anything, it makes Cap seem more like a reclusive ass who doesn't see that Tony wants to be his friend, but Cap's so caught up in being a man out of time that no one can really understand that he misses all of that.
>>81472211
were theycrossboning
>>81472195
>yeah you see how deeply cut he is in IM 2 when he's trying to admit to Pepper that he's dying and scared and she just ignores him to focus on work.
People often forget that this was Iron Man's original primary plight. His chestplate was stopping the shrapnel from hitting his heart, but it could fail at any moment. Even after making it lighter, more compact, and overall efficient, there's still the ever-present Sword of Damocles chance that it will fail anyway because his surviving the explosion was a one-in-a-million chance and he knows it.
So a lot of stories had him trying to put on a brave face while still attempting to stay connected with the likes of Pepper and Happy.
>>81472097
>Cap has a closer relationship with Widow, Sam, Thor than with Tony
In the Avengers movie alone, The person Cap has the most interaction with and the most relationship development is with Captain America.
The first Avenger movie has a big focus on how they go from seeing each other as an inconveniences toward respecting each other as fighters who will die in th ebattl togehter if they have to.
And in avengers 2, the relationship witht he most conflict inside the Avengers is btween Cap and Iron man. Yet they still respect each other enough to put their feud aside when necessary. At this point,t hey are already an old couple.
True, Cap has stronger ties with BW and Sam than with Tony, but it's thanks to the Winter Soldier movie.
>>81471922
>He ignores his own Rhodey
>>81472218
He just doesn't like Tony as a person, it's not so hard to understand. Steve gets along fine with Natasha and Sam in TWS and with Thor in AoU. Stark just has the kind of personality that Cap doesn't like.
>>81472220
Oh you.
>>81472196
>>81472211
Doesn't mean he didn't respected him up until they tried to take over the world.
He literally saw Tony scarifying his live to save New York, this is the kind of action that earn Captain's respect.
>>81472230
they aren't "already an old couple"
they're professionals that recognize personal differences shouldn't get in the way of the mission
>>81472243
>Stark just has the kind of personality that Cap doesn't like.
see>>81472230
>>81472252
They have a sibling rivalry kind of relationship.
>>81472243
>He just doesn't like Tony as a person, it's not so hard to understand. Steve gets along fine with Natasha and Sam in TWS and with Thor in AoU. Stark just has the kind of personality that Cap doesn't like.
Have you considered the possibility that Cap's standards are too high, and that this goes hand-in-hand with his inability to compromise?
>>81472252
your point has already been addressed.
>>81472050
steve gave tony respect for the selfless act, but then tony fucked it up by bringing it up constantly. you don't do something good and gloat about it.
>>81472254
>they're professionals that recognize personal differences shouldn't get in the way of the mission
The "together" in AoU was much more meaningful than that.
>>81472271
>steve gave tony respect for the selfless act, but then tony fucked it up by bringing it up constantly. you don't do something good and gloat about it.
Uh? at no point has Cap ever showed discontempt for Tony doing that.
Fuck, Rhode is the one who complain the most about it.
>>81472270
I dunno man, not liking Tony as a person is not so hard to believe and doesn't mean you have super high standards in people.
Hell, someone like Tony would annoy the shit out of me in real life. Narcissistic egomaniacs are not my type of people.
>>81472252
except then Tony keeps bringing up how he was prepared to make the sacrifice and how he should get special treatment because of it. Compare that to Cap who made an actual sacrifice and doesn't ask for special treatment, there's a pretty significant contrast there that could cause quite a fair bit of friction that hasn't been addressed yet
>>81472299
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH1eOp7Ip5c
everyone in the room got equally irritated
and steve's "together" also referenced everyone in the room. he was talking about all the avengers as a team, not steve and tony as BFFs
>>81472209
This was just the first thing I pulled up from what I have on my phone, but this kinda highlights what I meant.
>>81472099
But cap respected howard stark for his altruistic reasoning and actions in helping using his mind as opposed to his body.
Tony stark is the opposite, while there is some altruism, he's a glory hound. Which cap mistrusts. So being brothers at arms, to a point should make them tighter. But in honesty cap probably doesn't like him much.
>>81472311
>except then Tony keeps bringing up how he was prepared to make the sacrifice and how he should get special treatment because of it.
Again Cap never showe any discomptent for it, Rhodes did.
Nothing has ever indicated in the movie that Cap consider "you have lost some creds, yo".
>there's a pretty significant contrast there that could cause quite a fair bit of friction that hasn't been addressed yet
This is a contrast of characters, but not a source of conflict. It's definitely not in cap's personality to be petty about those kind of thing either.
The conflict between the two stem from how much Cap stick for higher ideal while Tony prefer to remain more practical.
>>81472325
>everyone in the room got equally irritated
Again, it's not in Steve's character to be petty about those kind of things.
>and steve's "together" also referenced everyone in the room. he was talking about all the avengers as a team, not steve and tony as BFFs
What his important is that the "Together" are done by the two of them, once again showing the understanding and respect they have for each other.
>>81472356
>Tony stark is the opposite, while there is some altruism, he's a glory hound.
That was his opinion of Stark at the beginning of the movie and it changed into actual respect and Friendship as they fought back to back.
>>81472300
>I dunno man, not liking Tony as a person is not so hard to believe and doesn't mean you have super high standards in people.
And yet, Tony never really did anything bad to Steve. In Avengers, it mostly just seemed that Steve had a stick up his ass about Stark due to his angst about the modern world, and Stark was a representation of that. He told him "The only thing you really fight for is yourself", but that's a pretty shallow interpretation of Tony, as he has done things throughout the movies that put himself in real danger to help the word at large, atoning for his own mistakes, and the mistakes of others. If Cap sees a guy like that, but judges that he's not good enough because he's sarcastic and carries a superficial veneer of self-centered behavior, maybe he's just not that great of a judge of character.
>>81472386
>it's not in steve's character to be petty
and yet he still visibly reacted
understanding sure
respect maybe
but not genuine friendship
>>81472325
>"That up there, that's the endgame. How are we guys planning on beating that?"
>"Together."
>Proceeds to split the team up over "Muh Bucky", right before when unity will be needed most.
>>81472325
In that video, Cap actually react more like Tony is actually making a point, which he does. Alien threat is real and he acknowledge that. Only Rhode really show exasperation at Tony bringing that up.
>>81472406
>In Avengers, it mostly just seemed that Steve had a stick up his ass about Stark due to his angst about the modern world,
Steve was pissed because Steve is the type of person to throw himself onto a grenade even if the chances of it even injuring someone else were minimal at best,while Tony is being a prick and tasering Banner because he's bored,putting the lives of everyone on the hellicarrier at risk.
>>81472445
Yeah fuck Bucky, it's not like he's Steve's best friend and the only person from Cap's past life that's still alive.
You sound like someone who doesn't have any friends.
>>81472399
Lol. In age of ultron he gets along with everyone better than tony. At their best they're just compatible fighters. Socially it's not even good natured ribbing. It's tony being tony and quipping to hear himself talk, and cap trying to ignore most of it.
>>81472410
>and yet he still visibly reacted
Did he? his reaction was more about not being able to deny alien threat is real. Which is the reason Tony brough that up, there.
>but not genuine friendship
The movie have showed a a build up of friendship based on banter and sibling rivalry.
they are Friends, becuae they have faought together and faced death together
>>81472410
>and yet he still visibly reacted
His reaction was more like "Shit he is right".
>>81472478
Struck a nerve there, huh?
>>81472489
>In age of ultron he gets along with everyone better than tony.
Their relationship is the most conflictual int he Avengers, but it's also why it's one of the strongest, its the one that got the most exposure and get to be the most established.
They have a clear sibling rivalry and a conflictual characters, but that make it an actual strong friendship.
>>81472513
It clearly wasn't, all of them were rolling their eyes and annoyed because Stark was bragging about New York.
Are you some kind of Steve/Tony shipper or something? Because I don't understand how someone can look at the scene and not see that Cap was annoyed by Stark's antics.
>>81472489
>, and cap trying to ignore most of it.
He definitely doesn't ignore it.
>>81472539
>constantly in conflict
>that means they have a strong friendship you guys!
You might be autistic anon.
>>81472540
>It clearly wasn't,
It clearly was. And Rhode was the only one rolling his eyes, everyone else was more like "he is maling a point".
>Stark was bragging about New York.
He actually wasn't, he was bringing up the alien threat.
>Are you some kind of Steve/Tony shipper or something?
I am not, but they are clearl firends in the movie.
Going "Cap don't consider Tony his friend" is in contradiction with what the movies establish.
>not see that Cap was annoyed by Stark's antics.
He was annoyed that Tony was making a good point. Also, that he had created Ultron.
They're not truly friends. Tony thinks they were, but Steve doesn't like him like that. He doesn't feel the way for Tony the way he does for Bucky. Tony is super jelly about it.
Sorry Tony, but, he's just not that into you
>>81472559
I am not, but this kind of tension and banter is clearly a friendship based on rivalry.
I think it's less Steve doesn't like Tony and more like their personalities can easily become vitrolic with just the right push. I mean, there was about to be a mini Civil War in AoU when he found out Tony was making Vision
>>81472554
He's shown to be able to talk back, but he lets tony have a lot of verbal wins because 1. He doesn't listen 2. Because he'd rather focus on tasks at hand.
>>81472559
He also keeps calling it a sibling rivalry. But honestly, yeah that's not a sibling rivalry. That's two people who have to work together that don't meet eye to eye socially. Honestly the they're true friends/family because they fight on the same team is flimsy, especially when you see him literally have better relations with everyone else. Even thor, who he didn't talk to much gets along better. In fact tony antagonizes everyone because he thinks being smart =charming /right all the time. When in reality bruce is the only one who likes him, out of the whole team.
>>81471973
Hell, you can even link that back to IM1. The only guy who didn't give him shit turned out to be trying to kill him
>>81471973
>Tony has thought of Cap as one of the only three people in the world who gives a damn about him
You're forgetting Banner.
>>81472780
you're right, my bad
>>81472780
Hulk gives zero shit about anyone besides pounding that Black Widow pussy and smashing stuff.
It's going to be nice to see a bromance between Thor & Hulk in Thor 3. They both like fighting.
>>81472824
>besides buttfucking that Black Widow pussy
ftfy
>>81472824
>Hulk gives zero shit about anyone
You know that's not true though. Hulk saved Iron Man's life when he was falling out of the sky at the end of the Avengers. He bonded with Tony, because Tony was the only one who actually made the effort to befriend him as a person, rather than just being wary of getting him angry like everyone else.
>>81471833
You get close in times of adversity. They might have been bickering a lot but I doubt there's a lot of people they respect more than each other.
"Friend" might not be the appropriate term, more like "comrade".
>Not to mention, "language."
Tony rips on everyone and Cap was shown to be a good sport about that, I'm not sure why we're supposed to think it's a sign of enmity.
>I doubt it's going to mean nearly as much on screen to see a barely established friendship get fractured.
Nearly as much what? I seriously doubt it'll be worse than in comics.
>>81471973
Hey, there's Happy!
>>81471833
I would say that if there is a friendship there, it's complex, in ways neither of them can fully vocalize. Tony, for his part, hasheard things about Captain America from his father. He "The guy his dad never shut up about." So if Tony is especially mocking of Cap, which I'm not exactly sure he is, he kind of does it with everyone, it's tied up with his angst about his father. For Cap's part, I completely disagree that he "just doesn't think much of Tony", or that he tries to ignore him to just do his job That's not the signal I got in AoU at all. in fact, a couple of times, he seemed to have what could be seen as a fatherly disapproval of Tony. Like he wanted Tony to be better, but that he was taking shortcuts and making mistakes out of fear.
