http://comicsalliance.com/cyclops-x-men-wolverine-marvel-ask-chris-142/
>...that’s the image of Cyclops that I have in my head whenever he shows up: The guy who frowns at all the cool characters and tries to stop them from doing awesome things because the Professor says and we have a responsibility and you can’t just stab everyone and not now Jean I have to program the Danger Room. And he kind of has to be that way, because there has to be someone providing the core of the team so that everyone else can orbit around it and push away; Wolverine wouldn’t be Wolverine if he didn’t have Cyclops to rebel against. I’d just rather read about the rebelling than the guy who tells him hey stop that, it’s after 10 and we have a noise policy here.
There was a recent comic that had all the "worst X-Men ever" gathered around a table. Cyclops was there, of course. His blurb that described why he was bad was something akin to "It's Cyclops. You KNOW he sucks." Even more recently he was killed off-panel for no reason, after being vilified for a thing that was never actually shown.
I feel like this article describes exactly the kind of mindset writers and readers who hate Cyclops have: they associate themselves with the edgy "cool" kids, and don't want a character to be able to tell them what to do. They don't see Cyclops as a moderator or a leader- they think of him as a spoilsport who prevents them from having fun, just because he has to think about consequences.
It's one of the strangest things I've seen in fiction. There's an entire generation of people who have come together and decided that one fictional character is a bad guy because of the way he is written, then they intentionally wrote him as a villain to prove themselves right. The vilification of Cyclops has been one long proxy tantrum being thrown in a fictional universe because fictional children aren't being allowed to do what they want.
(cont)
>>81422546
(cont)
And yet, you know what? Every time they try and make Cyclops do something they can point to as evil, due to his character, it's really hard to actually call him out on it because he's almost always right.
>>81422546
People don't like Cyclops because he's a boring cunt. Telepaths like him because he's a boring cunt and the mental equivalent of elevator music.
>>81422546
>>81422558
Is Cyclops the Superman of Marvel?
Wolverine is Marvel's Batman so it'd make sense
for all the shit sims gets, his column isn't bad. he has some decent ideas/theories/tastes
>>81422546
Even as a kid I loved Cyclops.
As the leader, the weight of the team and all of their problems.
And since X-Men was even more of a soap opera than the average comic, there were a fuck-ton of problems.
I (pretty unfairly) came to see Wolverine as a childish douchebag since he seemed to cause as many problems as he helped solve.
>>81422546
I always liked Cyclops and hated Wolverine as a kid, but that might be due to the fact that I was an older brother and therefore burdened with the responsibility of looking after younger and dumber siblings.
Cyclops is best when he has his "MUH PHOENIX" moments.
Without personal crisis his character is way too stiff. Replace him with an android who shoots laser beams and nothing really changes.
>>81425299
My favorite era of Cyclops is from Dark Phoenix Saga up to Inferno. It's just a long stint of depression and possibly going insane for him
it's amazing how Louise Simonson salvaged the character assassination that was done to him and turned X-Factor around
>>81422546
>Even more recently he was killed off-panel for no reason
He's not dead.
>>81425753
He's biding his time. Waiting for the RIGHT opportunity to show up.
>>81425834
What are the chances that Cyclops is the new Apocalypse? There is a precedent
>>81423947
Cuclops wishes.
Spider-Man is Marvel's Superman. Hell, these days with the movie boom Captain America might be a better choice.
>>81422546
It's funny because if the characters were real, Cyclops would be the cool one and Wolverine the asshole that nobody likes. I'm not sure how Marvel writers convinced themselves that Logan is the lovable, badass ladykiller while Scott is the silver medal that nobody wants.
>>81426115
Its almost like people forget INTROVERT NERDS WRITE THIS SHIT
>>81423947
Warren Ellis believes Cyclops is the X-Men's Batman, IIRC.
>>81426115
>if the characters were real
But they're not, so no one wants to watch Cyclops be an emotionally well-rounded individual in a bubble.
>>81426115
What happened was when Xavier was the head guy he was the coach and Cyke was the quarterback. People hate coaches but they like QB's. The problem is when they got rid of Xavier Cyke became the coach and Wolvie the QB so now people hate Cyke and love Logan even though Logan is one of those crappy career backups who gets lucky and wins a game once in a while but usually sucks
>>81426115
>I'm not sure how Marvel writers convinced themselves that Logan is the lovable, badass ladykiller while Scott is the silver medal
I feel like Mark Millar did a pretty good job establishing that Ultimate Wolverine was a sack of shit. Even better that his whole team realized it and wanted to throw him out
>>81426215
It's more that it's a storytelling medium and, as such, revolves more around interesting characters than likeable/stable ones. Sure if this were the real world Cyclops would be more popular than Wolverine, but no one wants to read about how perfect and well put together he is.
No one wants to see Daredevil pay his taxes on time and be in bed by 10.
No one wants to see Superman wash the dishes, call his mother and walk the dog.
No one wants to see Cyclops be a generic Chad.
>>81426356
Wolverine hasn't been interesting in years
I feel like one of the reasons people are always so defensive of Cyclops here is because they project onto him. I feel like a lot of the people who flip their shit at the notion that others find Cyclops boring have either been called boring themselves or just want to see their self-insert be the best.
It's the Spider-Man dilemma.
>>81426414
Wolverine is Tebow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUUPNzF3-2Q
>>81422546
I love comic book cyclops and I hate comic book wolverine, but I hate movie cyclops and love movie wolverine (at least the wolverine from The Wolverine and DOFP the others are shit.
>>81426461
Doesn't mean Cyclops is interesting.
>>81426461
He continues to get less interesting every time his backstory is explored. Fuck Origin and everything that came after it
>>81426549
I agree Wolverine being less interesting lately isn't directly tied to Cyclops being more interesting but the fact remains that Cyclops is more interesting.
>>81426594
Good point
>>81422546
I remember when bendis had that mutant who had those reality warping powers he couldnt control.
shield and everyone else wanted to nuke the kid. but cyclops went in on his own to try and talk to him, to help him. it all went wrong.
so that time travel bitch went back in time and conned prof x into helping her make it so the kid never existed because his parents didnt meet. she undid an entire loving relationship and a whole human life childhood and all. which in some ways yeah kinda get.
then she went to the present and told cyclops off for being a piece of shit that caused all the problems by trying to further his terrorist crusade when he was trying to help a fellow mutant out like prof x would have.
that is cyclops to marvel in a nutshell.
He is literally in the wrong for doing the right thing...and he always does the right thing. because hes right.
hes rightclops.
Cyclops abandoned his wife and infant child so he could hook up with his ex girlfriend.
He's a terrible person and deserves every bit of shit he gets.
>>81426710
marvel made Claremont write that
>>81426656
>More interesting
That doesn't actually make him interesting, though.
Being more interesting than modern Wolverine amounts to jack shit. There are still dozens of genuinely interesting X-Men for him to lose to.
>>81426676
That's the beauty. The people that hate Cyclops only end up making him more interesting.
>>81426710
You're misrepresenting that sequence of events to make him look worse.
>>81426442
I do want to see Superman call his mother, because it's cute, and walk the dog, because he probably walks Krypto around the Solar System.
I don't remember Cyclops fans being so vocal and obnoxious until recently. What gives?
>>81426676
Cyclops is your perfect soldier and what you do when you don't have the rights for your perfect soldier and he isn't a big seller? You let him die.
Cyclops is a douche bag. They've never made him cool in the comics, never made him cool in the cartoons and they've somehow made him less cool in the movies.
>>81426773
Maybe Superman was a bad example. because actually I kind of want to see that shit too.
But my point is what drives characters is conflict and facing their flaws. Cyclops being a more well-rounded and likable person in real life doesn't make him an interesting character in a narrative sense.
>>81426758
>You're misrepresenting that sequence of events to make him look worse.
You're right. I should have said
>Cyclops marries a girl just because she looks like his ex girlfriend
>When he finds out his ex has come back from the dead, he abandons his wife and infant child to go hook back up with her
>He never tells his ex that he's married or has a kid because he doesn't want to "ruin his chances" to get back with her
>The mental and emotional anguish he put his wife through causes her to lose her mind and destroy her life
>A few years later, Cyclops becomes bored with Jean and cheats on her with Emma.
He's fucking scum, anon. You idolize scum.
>>81426813
He was briefly cool in the comics when they made him Magneto, but that really only goes to prove the point that he's not particularly interesting.
>>81426754
What a lame argument. Fine. Cyclops is one of the most interesting X-men. The way he has to handle all the idiots around him and keep pushing forward is fun to read and represents a core part of the X-men formula. No other X-character is as interesting in a purely X-related way.
>>81426792
marvel killed off Cyke off screen after he gave a speech in the capitol about how mutants can live in peace with humans
>>81426442
>No one wants to see Superman wash the dishes, call his mother and walk the dog.
That is EXACTLY what I want to see.
>>81426885
>What a lame argument?
How? I stated that he's not a particularly interesting character and, because you disagree with that, it's a lame argument? Hell it was barely even an argument so much as it was the statement of an opinion.
>The way he has to handle all the idiots around him and keep pushing forward is fun to read
I mean, if you think so, that's fine, but I don't agree.
>No other X-character is as interesting in a purely X-related way.
Professor X is a more interesting character who has that same dynamic.
>>81426710
>so he could hook up with his ex girlfriend
No he abandoned them so he could go back to being a superhero because he realized he couldn't handle civilian life. He didn't even kiss Jean until after he thought his wife was dead
>>81426864
Go re-read X-factor. You're projecting your own motivations onto his actions. If you found out that a long time friend was back from the dead you would go check that shit out. Yes he does get caught up in the inherently soap opera-y plottings of the X-men and not return right away but it wasn't like he said "fuck being a dad" and left. The Jean-Scott-Emma triangle is far more complex than being "bored" with Jean.
I'm not sure what your agenda is but every time there's a Cyclops there you waltz in with your shitty opinion and act like an authority on something you've probably never read
>>81424964
Speakin the truth. Damn youn ger siblings being annoying little brats that you have to watch over.
>>81426082
>Spiderman=Superman
>The guy who sold his marriage to the devil and got cucked by Norman Osborn
Bitch please.
>>81426737
No Marvel ( Roger Stern, John Byrne, and Bob Layton specifically) was going to do it themselves. Chris started a subplot about Scott and Maddy's marriage having issues so the walk out wouldn't be completely sudden
I can't imagine how furious he was when he found out. All I know is he almost quit and he's still mad about it today
Was Rucka's Cyclops run decent? Because between Bendis, Secret Wars, and editorial letting manchildren like Sims write X-Men it seems like the character has a bad few years more.
>>81427045
>If you found out that a long time friend was back from the dead you would go check that shit out.
No one who brings up him leaving his wife has ever read X-Factor. They've seen one page or read some shitty Cracked article about why Cyclops sucks
>>81427045
>I'm not sure what your agenda is but every time there's a Cyclops there you waltz in with your shitty opinion and act like an authority on something you've probably never read
Considering this is the first time I've ever posted about Cyclops, I think the actual situation is that most people who have read 80s X-Men/X-Factor know what a piece of shit Cyclops is and bring it up in threads about Cyclops.
Dude walked out on his family for a booty call. That's the kind of guy he is.
>>81422546
isn't Wolvernine now the establishment? How can he be a rebel if he's part of the Avengers?
>>81423947
no, Cyclops is Marvels Wonderwoman, or Martian manhunter.
>>81426676
>shield and everyone else wanted to nuke the kid. but cyclops went in on his own to try and talk to him, to help him. it all went wrong.
The worst thing, it didn't go wrong because of Cyke. No, he would have calmed the guy and made him an X-man. But shield saw ciclops there and decided to bomb everything. Cause that works on reality shapers, of course.
>>81422546
Madrox is superior to Cyke in every possible way.
>>81426792
For me I didnt care for cyclops until the AvX event. I thought he was on point and in the right that whole time. But they continually tried to paint him as irrational and wrong.
>how dare he not give a mutant up to the avengers after they claim to come in piece while bringing a ship full of other avengers ready for battle to a place they have no jurisdiction.
But at the end of the whole shebang he haskilled professor xand been driven to the point where he realizes he can no longer uphold the dream as hes tried. so he lets magneto break him out of prison and leaves the x-mens care behind to wolverine. goes off and decides to do whatever it takes regardless of whether professor x would have approved to ensure the future of mutantkind.
That was an interesting thing. an interesting swerve on a character. They could have done so many cool things and it instantly made me like the character.
But then bendis did nothing so....oh well.
>>81427100
Nigga, if it ain't Spider-Man, it's Captain America. If it ain't Captain America, it's Thor. Cyclops isn't even in the running.
>>81427190
>isn't Wolvernine now the establishment?
I don't think you can really be the establishment when you're dead, anon.
>>81426965
>How? I stated that he's not a particularly interesting character and, because you disagree with that, it's a lame argument? Hell it was barely even an argument so much as it was the statement of an opinion.
I responded to a deleted post that claimed that Wolverine was still interesting. You brought Cyclops into it and started comparing the two, pretending that Cyclops' "interestingness" is related to Wolverine's and then backpedaling by saying that being more interesting than Wolverine doesn't make him interesting.
>Professor X is a more interesting character who has that same dynamic.
Professor X is boring because any drama with him amounts to whether or not to mind control someone. That can be entertaining but when the character is as much of a dirtbag as Xavier is you're left wondering why he doesn't do this to the whole world and stop pretending to be the good guy. Cyclops has to burn bridges or form genuine relashionships to get by.
>>81426792
>I don't remember Cyclops fans being so vocal and obnoxious until recently. What gives?
Seeing how hard they're trying to justify abandoning your family for an easy lay, I'd say they're stretching pretty hard right now.
>>81427202
That's pretty much how Dark Phoenix Saga went to shit
> Jean going crazy at the mansion
> Cyclops manages to talk her down
> he even proposes on the spot
> Xavier comes back form space after learning about the Phoenix
> asks no questions just mind attacks jean
Xavier was really shit until he mellows out during New Mutants
>>81427178
>do the exact same drive by shitpost like always
>nuh nuh i've never posted about cyclops before
>>81427214
Is Wolverine even a good leader for the X-Men? I always figured that once he became popular, that the writers would try to defang him.
>>81427342
>Xavier mind attacks jean
>Xavier probably mind controlled a lot of the x-guys
>Xavier erased memories from a lot of the x-dudes
>Xavier basically tortured an A.I. that later tried to kill the x-men (Danger Room)
Xavier was/is shit.
>>81427355
You seem pretty insecure, anon.
>>81427119
It was a fun and nice father son dynamic.
>>81427277
>Deleted post
wow it's like we're on an anonymous image board where more than one person can argue with you in a thread
>Cyclops has to burn bridges or form genuine relashionships to get by.
Didn't Professor X literally become alienated from the X-Men because of his techniques? I think that constitutes as him burning bridges.
And despite Cyclops' character dynamics, his actual personality and character motivations are like watching paint dry. It's not that he's the stable leader guy, because that's been done in an interesting way before (Captain America, Superman), it's just that this particular variation has, in my opinion, never been done in a particularly interesting fashion. Between his Jean pining, his love triangle, his 'telepaths love him, find out why' and his becoming Magneto, I just never thought Cyclops stood out as being interesting. Wolverine's fucking dull too, but at least he had that period before everyone kept filling in his past and making him progressively worse.
>>81427424
there was always some trouble happening and some terrible shit happening, but with cyke you knew the solution was happening because he always had a plan....wolverine is basically "whatever happens, happens"
>>81427424
>Is Wolverine even a good leader for the X-Men
No. I feel like trying to make Wolverine into a leader was one of the key mistakes to his modern characterisation. He's not supposed to be the leader, it flies completely in the face of his character.
I was always a moral uptight do the right thing kid that nobody likes when I was a kid. I mellowed down when I grew up but I still see myself in Cyclops and feel bad when people find him boring.
>>81427432
You seem to be caught in a lie
>this is the first time I've ever posted about Cyclops
>stick around the thread repeating yourself with either a grudge against cyclops fans or desire for (you)s
>>81427424
I don't recall him being used as team leader so much as school headmaster. it actually worked quite naturally in having the character still be who he was but be tempered over time and experience.
>>81427534
At least you're honest about it, unlike most Cykefags.
>>81423947
> is X the Z of Y?
I want a button to push that kills all millennials everywhere at once
>>81427543
I'm just enjoying watching you spiral.
>>81427543
mate, there is more than one person in this thread who disagrees with you, I don't see why that's so difficult for you to accept
>>81427470
I never claimed that you deleted the post.
>Didn't Professor X literally become alienated from the X-Men because of his techniques? I think that constitutes as him burning bridges.
If he wanted he could just mindwipe them and make them forget.
>>81427543
You know it's entirely possible that more than one person might disagree with you on a topic, right?
Do you think that a single individual is stalking you across the internet and that anytime someone somewhere disagrees with you then it MUST be that single person?
That's incredibly paranoid.
>>81427104
>he's still mad about it today
he was mad about Logan getting a backstory after 10 years of refusing to write one himself
that being said Chris was in the right here
>>81427626
>there is more than one person in this thread who disagrees with you
There is but there is only one person that is beating the "Cyclops is an evil adulterer" angle
>>81427593
>being over the age of 35 and still posting on 4chan
Go to bed, Gramps.
>>81426215
Cyclops is more of the introvert nerd than Wolverine is.
>>81427425
And all of that was written as a retcon. Under Claremont he was flawed but generally sincere.
>>81427646
But he doesn't, which is an interesting thing that's touched upon with is character -- he could just wipe their minds and make it easy on himself, but he chooses to accept his penance and not go any further.
Cyclop's thing has always just been "I'm the guy who's in charge, you don't have to like it, but that's who I am. I'll make this hard decision and maybe a few of you will get pissed for a bit but then you'll either fuck off or accept that I am right"
You might find that interesting, but I don't.
>>81427694
>There is but there is only one person that is beating the "Cyclops is an evil adulterer" angle
wait not that guy but how would you even know that?
I mean besides you assuming it must be one guy would it not be possible for either:
a: more than one person to have the same opinion
b: one person sees a point another made and agrees and brings it up later as well
>>81422546
Cyclops and Magneto exist in an a weird storytelling device that makes us as an audience see them as more logical. Because DRAMA! mutants have to be hated and feared or on the verge of extinction. The X-Men pursue understanding and peace but can never have it. We as comics fans recognize this, and it makes characters who take more drastic pro mutant action more sympathetic, because we know that the X-Men can't succeed in their mission. Realistically, black ops teams and preemptive action make sense in a world that hates and fears them to the extent that it'll build machines to commit genocide. But honestly, the X-Men don't really make sense in the marvel universe. How do you know who is a mutant and who just has superpowers? I kinda actually wish the X-Men were put into their own universe, because that would solve so many issues that make no sense.
>>81426508
Found the Wolverine fag
>>81427723
>J-Jeeeeaaaaaan~
>I'm in charge, you guys
>The Professor said...
>tfw chad tries to still your oneitis
>Muh Island
>Why won't Logan be my friend, bros?
>REEEEEEEE HUMIES GET OUT GET OUT X GON GIVE IT TO YA GET OUUUUUUUUT
> Cyclops bias even carries over into the games
Ditching Cyclops for 3 was awful, Ryu and Wolverine have zero chemistry.
>>81426233
It's not a bad comparison.
As Ellis points out, he has a single amazingly potent superpower which he has nonetheless managed to control with great precision and has been training for being a superhero a basically nothing else his entire life from his early teenage years to adulthood.
Guy has 100% of the dedication Batman does to his job. He just isn't an edgy rebel.
>>81427746
The mind attack on Jean wasn't, nor were all his pre-giant size shenanigans. Even under Claremont he wasn't above indiscriminate mindwipes to serve his purposes
>>81427746
>he was flawed but generally sincere
His biggest problem was control issues, especially with the All New team. He was used to having teens that never really questioned him. Then he starts giving orders to full grown adults like their his teen wards and he's surprised when they don't automatically respect his authority
>>81427824
>he doesn't like X, he must like Y who I consider inferior to X
Another sign that someone self-inserts onto a character.
>>81426549
Unfortunately that applies to nearly the entirety of the X-Men. There's a lot of X-books and a lot of X-book authors and the vast majority of them are utter horseshit on multiple levels.
>>81427791
The tone of the posts is the same. There's no change in how he frames the scene.
>>81427858
>He just isn't an edgy rebel
H was more of a whiny romance comic character
> How can I tell Jean I love her with these eyes that could destroy her!
>>81427947
dude youre really tryharding right now
>>81427854
I want to believe this is an edit.
Please anon, tell me its an edit, my heart wont be able to handle it if he was in the game at some point...
>>81426710
Claremont hated that plot and was forced to write it and then cease writing Cyclops all together.
These characters do not make life choices because they aren't real people, ya fucknuggit.
Instead editors and writers write them as making choices. As it turns out, most of Cyclops' bad ones have to do with editors shitting all over his characterization and ongoing stories.
>>81427922
I think a lot of people are under the misconception that if Wolverine didn't exist then their favourite X-Man would be just as popular and beloved as he is. The fact is Wolverine became popular because so many X-Men and X-Books were just flat.
One thing about the X-Men that doesn't really apply to any other cape comic franchise is that a lot of it is just throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks and, when that's what's going on, you're bound to get more shit than stick.
>>81426676
I feel like Marvel writers may objectively be bad people.
>>81428005
>Writers write Cyclops doing something douchey
>NO BRO IT'S JUST A COMIC IT'S THE WRITERS THAT SUCK NOT THE CHARACTER
>Writers write Cyclops not doing something douchey
>YEAH DUDE CYCLOPS IS THE BEST CHARACTER I WANNA BE JUST LIKE HIM HE THE GREATEST
Can't have it both ways faggot
>>81427974
Believe it or not, not everyone thinks the same. A person that hears about the Maddie-Cyclops-Jean triangle wouldn't repeat it back the same. They would either A) look it up B) actually read it or C) work off of interpretations of the post. All three would create a different representation of the events.
>>81428025
I'm not under that misconception at all.
I am PRECISELY aware of what the X-books are and I never follow characters or teams or groups, just writers.
I'll pick up a book to see if it's good, but I'm not enough of a rube to stick with a book if it's writing is shit out of loyalty to a fucking ink blot like half of long-term comics readers seem to end up being.
>>81424964
Same here. Leonardo is my favorite turtle for the same reason.
>>81423947
Incredibly boring? Yes
>>81428095
Two people can come to identical conclusions completely independent of one another.
It has happened before. It shall happen again.
>>81426792
Marvel has amped up the War on Cyclops recently
>>81428124
>Comparing Superman to Cyclops in terms of being boring.
Man, that's not remotely fair on Superman.
>>81428071
yeah you can.
>>81422546
Cyclops isn't evil but he's definitely a humorless dick with zero imagination.
>>81426864
Hello Bendis
>>81422546
Cyclops and Magneto exist in a weird fictional bubble. We like them, because they are proactive and genuinely fight for mutant rights in a world that hates them and tries to make them extinct. That doesn't fit with the mission of the X-Men which is peace and understanding. We as an audience recognize that this is impossible because DRAMA, so we sympathize with Cyclops for being violently protective of mutants. This doesn't fit in with the marvel superhero code, so they are villains. But really, mutants make no sense in the marvel universe. I kinda wish they were spun off into their own universe, because superheroes having respect and admiration, but mutants being hated makes no sense. Writers need them to be hated and feared for DRAMA, but we are left scratching our heads when Cyclops responds to this fairly and is treated as a villain for not being a typical x-man/hero.
>>81428071
I don't need to have it both ways.
The way I just said it is objectively correct and you are objectively wrong; he doesn't have an actual CHARACTER because his character is intensely fluid and written by dozens of people.
What Cyclops has are cool moments in good stories; he has no personality or motives or methods or desires and ESPECIALLY not choices because rather then be consistently written his personality and actions change depending on the needs of the plot.
Just like every single X-Men.
I'm a fan of Cyclops because I like how he acts in certain stories and his storyline in certain plots when his characterization is consistent.
It has nothing to do with what he DOES and everything to do with how he's WRITTEN.
Retard.
>>81428181
It is. Superman is incredibly dull
>>81428025
The only people I ever see that are upset about Wolverine lately are moviefags bitching about "yet another Wolverine focused movie". Before his death Wolverine was getting better. Sure he was still in a billion books and was at the center of an editorial mandated bout of infighting but it was less tiresome. He wasn't popping in unrelated stories to boost their sales like he was at his worst. People had mostly moved on. He was a major player but not THE major player above all others.
>>81428116
I didn't mean you specifically, but that's the right course of action to take. Especially with a team with so many iterations, a constantly revolving roster and sometimes several writers at once.
>>81428240
If you think Superman is boring, you will also think Goku is boring too. And also most of Shounen hero too
>>81428238
>We like them
Speak for yourself, anon.
>>81428249
Man, Wolverine hasn't been Marvel's spotlight stealer since the noughties. People who claim he's still being pushed are either delusional or bitter.
I always thought Cyclops was really, really boring. He was by far my least favorite X-Men - until Marvel started shitting on him constantly. Forced into these elaborate, continually fuck-ups for entirely reasonable decisions he became a much more interesting character.
>>81428289
not that guy but. holy shit hit the nail on the head. i mean i dont even think superman is entirely boring as a character though probably as a person you might know.
that being said goku is boring as shit (post dragon ball at least...when he was a kid he was a blast) and all that other 'get stronger to fight stronger guy then train to get even strongerer again' bullshit is boring as fuck too.
>>81426442
>No one wants to see Superman wash the dishes, call his mother and walk the dog.
Then explain how Lois & Clark lasted for 4 seasons.
>>81428157
It's harder when the conclusion is wrong and the post style is the same
>>81427747
>But he doesn't
But he did didn't he? wasn't that the whole reason he was removed from the team Scott found out he mind controlled the original x-men after their first fight with Magneto?
>>81427872
Why are Wolverinefags such autists? You've been spamming this thread the whole time.
![mah-nigga[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/W84hNsR.jpg "mah-nigga[1].jpg")
>>81424493
>>81428372
same reason smallville lasted for ten. idiots will watch anything.
>>81428025
Wolverine is flat out the worst character in Comic Books. I'd rather read Shatterstar.
>>81428555
I doubt they're actually Wolverine fans. The only people that are still fans of Wolverine are normies
>>81428555
It's okay to like Cyclops and it's okay for you to have a differing opinion to someone else, anon. You don't have to be a baby about it and start trying to discredit the opposition.
>>81428297
You're a fucking faggot.
>>81428597
>worst character in Comic Books
Alright, that's way too far. Wolverine's not great but he's far from the worst character in comics. He at least has some good comics and characterisation from before they killed him.
Why so salty?
>>81428612
You'd be surprised. There's a lot of underdeveloped Marveldrones who love that hairy faggot
>>81428664
So, bitter, then.
Years of having their favourite character not be liked by most people has made Cyclops fans extremely salty, defensive and argumentative. The focus of their rage seems to be either Wolverine or Marvel at large.
Hey, Cyclopsfag.
It is I, your arch-nemesis: ANTI-CYCLOPSFAG!
I am the one who has followed you into every Cyclops thread on /co/ over the past 5 years just to make that point about Scott leaving Maddie.
And I shall continue to follow you into Cyclops threads forever.
UNLESS YOU CAN STOP ME!
>>81428712
Oh you memer you
>>81428745
Considering /co/'s comic audience consists of tumblrfags and people too cynical for mainstream forums, I doubt there are many hardcore Wolverine fans that are unable to interact with non-Wolverine fans.
>>81427998
This is a fake from June 2011.
>>81428833
I'm asking a genuine question. Why such a hate-on for a fictional character? I get that some people like him over Cyclops, but relax. I don't much care for Wolverine either and even I can admit he's had good stories.
>>81428827
you dont fool anybody, wolverine-fag.
Cyclops does the exact same thing as Captain America, except without any of the actual charisma to back up his boyscouting.
He's begging for some new thread of characterization
>>81427514
But that was the whole point of making him leader. He isn't a natural one, nor does he want to be, and so when he screws up it's supposed to be interesting. I think he works better as an X-Force Leader or a Headmaster than as a field team leader.
>>81428920
It's gonna be like 10 more years before Marvel hires someone who gives a rat's ass about X-men and not just hiring writers to hash out the same old, same old.
>>81428921
I can definitely buy him leaving X-Force.
Tbh I kind of miss the days when the X-Men were a cohesive unit and Wolverine and Cyclops were fire-forged bros with begrudging respect for one another.
Schism is one of the worst thing to ever happen to X-Men comics.
So basically...
>Scott dates Jean Grey
>Jean dies
>Scott marries Maddie because she looks like Jean
>Jean comes back to life
>Scott leaves Maddie to be with Jean
>Maddie goes crazy and dies
>Scott ignores Jean and flirts with/gawks at Betsy
>Jean ain't havin' none of that
>Scott and Jean get married
>Scott cheats on Jean with Emma
>Jean dies again
>Scott begins ignoring Emma because now he misses Jean
I stopped reading during Joss Whedon's run, but there ya go. Scott in a nutshell.
>>81428920
>cyclops is the same as captain america minus the ass licking he gets from everyone because MUH AMERICAN HERO
I liked cyclops when i was younger but never read the comics until 2 to three years ago and basically only knew of him from the X-men shows and movies where they redid the phoenix story line episode over and over again and cyclops went
>muh jean
it was especially bad in x-men 90s cartoon or was it revolution with the shitty Scott, Jean, and Wolverine love triangle that went on too long.
>>81429001
>Scott cheats on Jean with Emma
wut?
>>81428297
The spotlight stealer now belong to deadpool. Wait until every movie will have deadpool in it.I am deadpoolfag but i will hate Fox if their pull this shit
>>81429123
>deadpool
Nah, Deadpool's a meme at best: he's not a spotlight stealer, he's just a character that pops up all over. Closest thing to a spotlight stealer right now is Iron Man or Captain Marvel, I'd say.
>>81429095
>confirmed for not having read Morrison's New X-Men run
or yer gonna say
>Doesn't count! She totally used her mind powers on him to MAKE him cheat on jean!
>>81429205
>She totally used her mind powers on him to MAKE him cheat on jean!
but under that circumstances it doesn't count as consensual sex and is basically rape.
>>81429001
>>Scott dates Jean Grey
>>Jean dies
>>Scott marries Maddie because she looks like Jean
>>Jean comes back to life
>>Scott goes to new york when warren tells him jean is alive
>scott maintains his distance from jean while he works out his feelings
>by the time scott checks up on Maddie, Maddie is MIA
>>Maddie goes crazy and dies
>>Betsy flirts with Scott
>>Jean ain't havin' none of that
>>Scott and Jean get married
>jean becomes unwilling to work at their marriage despite scott's requests
>>Scott cheats on Jean with Emma
>>Jean dies again
>>Scott breaks up with emma because of the shit he did in AvX
>>81428974
Yeah, Marvel's logic is that they shouldn't bother to help the Fox sell X-Men comics, so they treat the x-men like red headed stepchildren. They aren't as popular as Deadpool, who sells comics easy and Marvel will latch onto that. But they're successful enough that marvel won't put resources into their comics to help the competition. X-Men won't get treated right until Marvel gets those movie rights back. Which ain't gonna happen anytime soon.
>>81429205
Thinking of sex is not cheating. If that was the case, Jean and her sex fantasies with Logan would count too.
>>81429123
He's locked out of the movies set in the 80s so you only have to worry about X-factor/New Mutants appearances
>>81429001
>>Scott and Jean get married
>>Scott cheats on Jean with Emma
This part here got me all bothered up in the 2000s.
Scott had made a lot of headway in not being a fucking piece of shit after he married Jean, mostly trying to atone for all the awful stuff he did to Maddie and Nathan.
So he and Jean go to the future and raise Nathan because Scott feels guilty about abandoning his family and all that. Nathan turned into Cable, so clearly they did a shit job raising him, but at least it proved Scott could feel guilt and wanted to make up for things.
And then Morrison comes along and now Scott's being unfaithful to Jean and turning into a shit head again.
And yeah, Whedon's Astonishing only made things worse, with Jean being dead and now Scott wants to play mopey and treat Emma like shit because JEEEEAAAAAAN!!!
It's always one step forward, two steps back with him when it comes to characterization.
>>81429456
I actually like the fact that he is kinda fucked when it comes to relationships. that jean and him seemed like it should work but it just didn't on both ends. i mean she didnt cheat on him but she sure as shit checked out of the relationship emotionally some time ago.
Shit happens, sometimes it isn't just a cosmic event or tragedy that separates two people.
Am I the only one who prefers Emma x Cyclops over Jean x Cyclops? Jean always seemed like a two-faced bitch to me with how she'd always flirt between Cyke and Wolverine while pretending to be holier than thou, whereas Emma was kinda a dick but in a way that complimented Scott's straight-arrow personality.
>>81429623
>Am I the only one
No. it is better.
>>81425523
It was like, what, two issues into Louise writing X-Factor that he goes back home so she could fix him being a deadbeat?
>>81429623
Jean should have stayed dead forever. By far the worst character in the entire franchise.
>>81429181
>he's not a spotlight stealer, he's just a character that pops up all over.
... Are you to stupid to understand how words function?
>>81429623
Jean Grey a shit, no matter what incarnation. And thanks to Bendis her young self is shit, her future self is shit and her dead self is shit. And the worst of the worst is he tried to write Scott as a horrible person even though he didn't do anything wrong. He also broke up Emma.
>>81429737
>no matter what incarnation
That's the worst part. Even Evolution Jean is unlikable and uninteresting
>>81429726
He's not stealing the spotlight so much as he is making guest appearances. You wouldn't call Ambush Bug a spotlight stealer -- he's just a guy who interacts with most of the universe he exists in for the sake of comedy.
A spotlight stealer, in my eyes, is someone who is made to be central to everything that conspires within a universe. Deadpool makes appearances, but he's not being forced into shit the same way as Wolverine was or Batman is. He's not becoming the central focus of everything. He's not beating everyone and being made to look like a badass all the time. Therefore he's less of a spotlight stealing character and more of a company-wide joke character.
But that was a clever, petty retort you gave me there.
>>81429856
Not the guy you were responding to, but I want to say I absolutely agree with your assessment. There is a fundamental difference between Deadpool and Wolverine and how they interact and are included in events, and you articulated it well.
>>81429623
Love EmmaxCyke too. Whedon made it work.
>>81430021
Thanks.
Put simply, I always find it's kind of like this.
When Deadpool appears in an event or on a team or in a comic it goes along the lines of:
>Hey, here's Deadpool!
>Deadpool's here as well!
>Deadpool will say a few lines and do a few things.
When Wolverine was at the height of his being pushed, it was more like this:
>OH SHIT NIGGA EVERYONE DROP WHAT YOU'RE DOING HERE'S WOLVERINE!
>WOLVERINE IS HERE and so is everyone else too I guess
>LET'S MAKE WOLVERINE AND HIS STORY AS CENTRAL TO WHAT'S HAPPENING AS POSSIBLE.
Take Axis as an example: Deadpool appeared, yes, and he had an important role to play but he was never the main focus of what was happening and his role was both organic and moderated.
Another example is the Uncanny Avengers. Here Deadpool is a central and important character, but he's never given an excessive amount of focus and attention over others and his presence is both organic and moderated.
Compare that to events like Schism where Wolverine was forced into an unnatural role for the sake of his popularity.
>>81429623
I was never particularly that sold on EmmaXScott, but I think a lot of that was Morrison basically resetting her character back to the 80s.
That said, Scott getting a wandering eye becauseJean desperately lusted for Logan all the time made sense.
>>81430605
>I was never particularly that sold on EmmaXScott
Emma is a manipulator, Scott has a position of trust and authority.
>>81430292
Yeah deadpool is kind of type that hard to make event around him . He is a joke character
>>81430292
>Compare that to events like Schism where Wolverine was forced into an unnatural role for the sake of his popularity.
I've never much liked the fact that real world popularity means that the characters get more powerful/popular/important in universe to match.
Like, that was the core argument behind sticking Spider-Man and Wolverine on the Avengers, and it never really felt right with either of them
>>81422697
This makes weird amounts of sense
>Jean/Emma/one of these other redheaded Phoenix avatars comes home after a long day of being plugged into everyone's bullshit
>plops down on the couch next to Cyclops
>the word "red" floats through the general mental area, and then nothing
>Jean/whoever gives a sigh of relief as she feels the mental equivalent of taking off her shoes at the end of a hard day
emma is a whore who is half the psychic jean is, a quarter the teacher jean is, and a sliver of a human being she pretends to be
she does not deserve cylops
cyclops cheating on jean was one of morrison's biggest fuckups.
but we can't ignore what happened. post-cheating on jean cyclops doesn't deserve jean now. him and emma are a match made in hell. but pre-morrison cyclops was right for jean. she might have lusted after logan cock but she never did anything about it. and it's not like scott didn't fuck up with the whole maddie and not rebuking betsy or any other piece of ass that wanted him.
and it's not like emma respects scott, she was got her share of imperius sex behind scott's back
>>81424964
>>81427057
>>81428119
I am a younger sibling and my older bro was the problem child so when I got old enough I was the one who had to look after him.
Then when my little sister was born I also had to look after her in addition to looking out for him.
Being the middle child is suffering.
>>81422546
It's weird, I used to hate him for that stuff too. The fact that he was bland-as-hell helped a lot, just basically having "energy blasts"
But Morrison breathed new life into him and, while they didn't seem to mean to do it, they made him one of my favorite X-men by portraying him as the guy who was just fed up with all the shit people blamed him for over the years and decided to do things right.
Ironically they were trying to portray him as a bad guy, and even Wolverine looked like a huge douche whenever he was set up against Cyclops.
>>81428597
thank god there's someone else with this opinion. i get fucking crucified for saying stuff like that in my groups
>>81430949
>thank god there's someone else with this opinion.
"hurr wolverine sucks" is the most normie "I'm not a normie" opinion ever.
>>81428240
>>81428181
The point is what Superman and Cyclops have in common is that their respective editorials found them lame and often use them as a punching bag for shilling "cooler" and more popular characters
>>81428920
>He's begging for some new thread of characterization
did you miss that he's been a badass crazy terrorist
>>81428597
People always sound like doofs for saying shit like this.
Not because everyone has to like wovlerine. hate wolverine all you want. But worst character?
thats such a 'ARGHH I DONT LIKE IT AND WHY DO SO MANY OTHERS LIKE IT' attitude that shows how much one is influenced by others likes and dislikes of shit instead of judging shit based on actual quality.
Like hey wolverine is far from the best but i'd take him over adam-x or random any day of the week.
>>81430972
not round here, and it's not hurr durr i hate logan, i seriously think he's one of the worst comic characters, probably since around the middle of his hama book. shit is damaging and bad.
>>81422546
We're aware of this. Sims has really fucking shit opinions regarding the X-Men and Cyclops specifically to the point of irrationally believing that attempts to make him interesting are pointless because he's a faggot who hates every character that's not Batman, Superman or some ~WACKY~ Z-list Silver Age DC villain.
>>81429623
Jean was a bitch. She always tried to cuck Scott with SniktBub.
>>81430849
Apparently it's something like that, but not at all in that context.
It's not that he's so boring that he's easy to be around; it's that his mind is so disciplined that his thoughts aren't constantly bouncing around his head to be stepped in like muck by any passing psychics.
This is honestly probably something Xavier taught him; he spent so much time taking orders from a guy who would literally project them into his brain that he had to learn to make his thoughts orderly so they could be quickly read so Xavier could give out orders quickly and Scott could follow through.
Basically, it's that his sense of self-control applies to his brain as much as it applies to his person, and this is very appealing to psychics because nobody else "polices" their own thoughts for garbage.
>>81429623
no it's the superior ship.
>>81430972
>normie defending his greasy hairy husbando
Slash your fucking throat bendis
All I know is, I love how Jack drew Cyclops. And the X-Men in general. I really wish he'd taken to this book more, it's a shame to see him at his best leave after a dozen issues or two.
>>81431061
The entire Marvel Universe revolves around Wolverine. It would be objectively better without him.
>>81431260
I don't know what he's doing back there in that middle panel but I'm into it.
>>81431260
The original run was a sales failure and no one believed on the project, except Stan Lee for some reason.
>>81431284
But we need him back so we can have interesting and empathetic drama like a 250 year old man struggling to deal with his angst about how he wants to bone a 17 year old girl.
>>81430888
Bendis get off 4chan.
Jean should've stayed dead.
>>81431307
His women were underrated too.
>>81431321
That's a shame. I think it has a lot of charm.
>>81431284
Yeah all those spider-man and dr. strange and fantastic four and namor and guardians of the galaxy books that are all about wolverine. except hes pretty much mostly just in some x-books and occasionally on an avengers team.
>>81431321
Speaking of Stan and the X-men
http://www.jimshooter.com/2011/08/more-strange-tales-stans-advice-re-name.html
>Stan and our West Coast rep had wangled an opportunity to pitch an X-Men cartoon show to one of the networks. To Judy Price at CBS, I think.
>The question was this: which X-Men team to pitch?
>Stan had been out of touch with most of what had been going on in the comics for a long time, and he didn’t know much about the New X-Men. Sol Brodsky had brought him the presentation boards. They didn’t have names on them, but Sol had also equipped Stan with a list.
>Stan looked at the images of the New X-Men, then at the list. Cyclops, he recognized, of course.
>“This one,” he said, pointing at Storm, “must be Banshee.”
>“No, that’s Storm,” I said. “Here’s Banshee.”
>“Jim, don’t you know that banshees are female?”
>“Yes, but, you should take that up with Roy. He created this guy a long time ago.”
>“Roy?!” Stan had that look of horror and incredulity you get when you discover that the guy who’s been doing your taxes can’t add or subtract.
>>81430888
Yeah, Emma's a dominatrix.
That entire fucked up relationship has to be viewed through that fact.
Every time she makes a little snarky remark or undermining contribution that's just her fucked-up way of saying; "Love you."
( ... only more British.)
It's not that she doesn't respect him, it's that she most respects how much he can endure and not lose his core heroic nature. That's expressed in a very different way from normal people respect.
And frankly, Scott has always responded well to a challenge, so it's not entirely out of character for him to like that sort of thing.
Disgusting, I know.
>>81424259
I gave up on him when he did a big apology piece over accidentally triggering an sjw over twitter or some shit. I was feeling dirty giving Comic Alliance hits anyway.
>>81431410
>( ... only more British.)
I miss when she was just an old money Brahmin type.
>>81431403
>“Roy?!” Stan had that look of horror and incredulity you get when you discover that the guy who’s been doing your taxes can’t add or subtract.
I don't necessarily agree, but I can't help but laugh at this.
>>81431245
I don't care, I'm just telling you that hating Wolverine isn't some revolutionary new opinion that you're breaking the mold by sharing. Normies talk about how much Wolverine sucks all the time. It's a bandwagon.
>>81431284
>The entire Marvel Universe revolves around Wolverine
Go back to 2008, Doc.
Seriously, when was the last time you read a fucking comic? Wolverine hasn't been Marvel's pushed character since the MCU took off.
>>81431130
>"disciplined"
Damn right it is.
But the first psychic he ever encountered wasNOT Chuck Xavier. It was Mr. Sinister.
People forget that when his parents' personal airplane got blown up scott spent a year or so in a coma and when he woke up he was shipped off to Mr. Sinister's orphanage.
And the weirdest part is that he was already a hard-core level of disciplined when he woke up from that coma. No wonder Sinister's always been fascinated by Scott.
You know if Wolverine didn't exist, people still wouldn't give a shit about Cyclops.
>>81431607
The sheer delusion you Wolverine faggots have is breathtaking
>>81431696
You're a literal toddler.
>This thread
Every so often I am given a painful reminder of the fact that I share this board with manchildren and basement dwellers incapable of stringing an argument together or having an intelligent discussion without chimping out because someone thinks Optimus Prime is better than Megatron or some other shit.
>>81431794
Optimus Prime IS better than Megatron.
>>81422546
>It's one of the strangest things I've seen in fiction.
Really? Because it has happened a handful of times in cape comics alone, in the same direction or as a heel-face turn. You know, like Magneto.
Cyke becomming villainous could have been a good idea nonetheless, and could have certainly made him a more interesting individual than a moderator, which while valuable to a team, certainly isn't that engaging to read about as an individual.
>>81422558
You know why I resent the whole treatment of Cyclops in the last few years, really? It created Rightclopsfags, and you guys are annoying as fuck.
>>81431912
FUCK YOU
>>81423947
Cyclops was never really about do the right thing because it's the right thing to do, more like do the right thing because it's what the professor told us to do. He's a disciple, not a master.
>>81431410
>Every time she makes a little snarky remark or undermining contribution that's just her fucked-up way of saying; "Love you."
>( ... only more British.)
>British
You mean Bostonian right, luv?
>>81422546
>>81426115
Do you really believe that? People love gruff assholes who play by their own rules.
>>81431695
I don't think Marvel and the fans really hate Cyclops that much, think about it: he's never been killed off before.
By my count Prof X has died four times, Wolverine twice if you don't count healing factor saves, Cap America has two deaths too, I'm not counting the Jean deaths, Punisher has died twice, Magneto had three at least, Iron Man and Thor(ManWhor) both died once, and I'm sure I'm undercounting here. And not all of those were just to bump sales.
Clearly, there's a recognition that Cyclops is a core aspect of the X-Men mythology.
Just because they're writing a lot of harsh stories for him over at Marvel, you can't think that means they don't care. Spiderman has had the crap kicked out of him forever and it's generally understood that all of Marvel loves that character.
>>81432078
This is very true.
>>81432078
Wolverine's not even really that aggressive or standoffish to his friends. He's usually just a manly man who likes to drink and smoke and shit and he's insanely loyal to and protective of the people he cares about because he's a good boy, yes he is, he's a good boy.
>>81432053
>>81432078
Really? Thats like the most used trope.
>>81431342
Basically Twilight for guys
>>81432109
>Hate
I didn't say hate, man, I just said they don't care. Which is true.
>>81432142
Go and get some friends who aren't autistic, man, people love assholes. They're entertaining. Can't handle the bantz, get out of the squad
>>81422546
Cyclops is an ass and a shitty leader. That never grew out of being an ass or a shitty leader. And not a shitty leader that has horrible idea or doesn't know what to do, a shitty leader that fails to understand his team in any since beyond how they can achieve his goals and at inspireing or explaining to his team why those goals should be met. At least that is how he is pretty consistently written.
Take another team leader like Captain America it's not just him in the field barking orders he inspires people to fight for him. He takes the time to explain before hand why what he's asking them to do is important and what it means if they fail. Now you may say comparing leadership to Cap isn't fair he's supposed to be that way that's his role. Hey, maybe you're right.
Take Leonardo, from the ninja turtles. Pick a series or movie and chances are he starts off almost exactly like Cyclops. Why is he in charge? Because the boss said he's in charge. Why should the team follow his orders? Because the boss put him in charge. And for awhile that's enough for Leo but it rubs almost everyone the wrong way. Then him and Raph have a fight (usually physical) and after that Leo reveals he struggles as a leader. He makes amends with his team and leads better after that.
Cyclops is a tactically capable person. And when he was lieutenant to Xaviers captain. things ran smoothly or smoother. When Cyclops grew up and was more of a direct leader and started making more long term decisions he never developed the desire or need or found it necessary to take the people he was leading into consideration. And that is usually why he comes off like an ass.
>>81432139
My favorite issue of the X men was when Wolverine takes Colossus to bar to whip his ass after he hurt Kitty.
>>81427214
The thing with AvX is that it painted everybody as assholes, but Cykefags took exception to it because Clops ended up losing.
>>81432302
Cykefags have always had a victim complex, though. All it is is whining about how Marvel hates their husbando and how Wolverine is the worst thing to ever happen to comics and how Cyclops is literally the most interesting character ever and how everyone is a Loganfag.
>>81427514
Wolvie's supposed to be an uncle, not a dad.
Put trip on, Phoenix Egg.
>>81422546
You know what, I see Cyclops as an abused child.
He's the kid who has had horrible things happen to him non-stop for his entire life and who everyone comes to believe deserves every bit of it and more, because if he doesn't deserve it then there's no such thing as justice in the world.
So I'm happy for him that he died.
He has had a truely miserable life and the best he can hope for is that it has all finally ended.
Let's face some hard truths: the only joys he ever got were doing good as an X-Man and being with his one true love, Jean.
Those days are past. He's the face of X-Men failure and Jean's long gone. He had nothing worth living for anymore.
Death was the best thing for him.
>>81428920
He's way less of an strong-minded individual than Cap. Cap has gone AWOL a half dozen f times at this point for having conflicting points of views with other Avengers or other authorities.
Half of Cyke's ideas have been pretty directly put into him by Xavier.
>>81432212
That was a good story.
Juggernaut really needed that win after the whole Spiderman thing he had just gone through.
>>81431260
Yeah Kirby's art on early X-Men was pretty great.
>>81432594
Really? The guy raised since childhood in the compound run by the charismatic mind controlling "Charley" doesn't have a single independent thought in his head?
Wonder why that is...
>>81432654
Indeed. That Spidey shit was embarrassing.
>>81432139
Well yeah, your classic roughneck with a heart of gold.
>>81432142
Tropes get used for a reason.
>>81432196
Yeah Cyke is made to be mostly a field leader, Xavier was the ideological and even emotional leader for the longest time.
>>81426442
>No one wants to see Superman wash the dishes, call his mother and walk the dog.
Literally the best parts of Superman.
>>81432755
I literally said
>Half of Cyke's ideas have been pretty directly put into him by Xavier.
I'm not saying you should blame Cyke for not being a strong-minded individual, because that would be retarded, I'm saying the weight of his leadership is entirely different from Cap's because of that reason.
>>81432196
You make some really good points.
>>81432030
And a ching chong to you too betsy-chan
>All this Cyclops love
This is the only place on the internet that still has a bastion of taste.
>>81433098
And I'm saying that there's no leadership at all from Scotty.
By the very definition of leadership his efforts simply have never qualified.
He's a tool, literally, for Charley X to manipulate into doing the hard work of heroics. Everything he does is with the singular mindset of accomplishing the goals set before him. That single-minded determination would be an amazing act of willpower if these were his own ideas and not those of the powerful telepath that tells him what to do with his life.
Summers might not even have the free will anymore to live his own life as he would wish, as a matter of prolonged brainwashing.
Creepily, even his desire for Jean Grey can be called into question when you consider that Mr. Sinister so wanted that breeding that he made a Jean clone to get it done.
So what was Scott Summers' choice, if there ever was one?
And can any of that really ever be called leadership?
>>81428030
I feel this way too. The deeper a hole they dug Cyclops into, the more he appeared to be the most sincere character of not only the X-Men but most of Marvel's characters. Certainly more than characters like Medusa who seems to be a massive bitch even when all she wants is the best for Inhumans.
Because Cyke wanted everyone to be harmonious. Medusa wants Inhumans to rule, bitch even calls herself a queen. Cyke only did something similar and even then he owns up to it, doesn't even fucking blame the bloody phoenix.
Marvel's only choice was to literally bury him and then have everyone piss on his damn grave, even the people who sided with him.
Fucking wankers. Don't even get me started on Beast and the furry, bara, wankfest they treat him as.
>>81432586
If only Cyclops was allowed to die for real.
If only cape comics were about telling stories instead of nostalgia pandering and continuity fanwanking
>>81427179
>this strawman
>>81432327
Except all of that is true.
>>81433368
We love you too, anon. Anyone who likes Rightclops is a friend of mine.
>>81429623
Emma x Scott is loads better than Jean and Scott.
>>81433486
Might be a cool story to tell when Cyclops inevitably comes back. However he ends up being resurrected, he doesn't have that psychic manipulation. No longer having his leadership drive, his love of Jean or his "organized mind" he finds himself trying to fit into the role of a member of the team instead of the leader while his "classic" love interests are uninterested in him.
>>81433486
You can be a leader without being an ideological and emotional leader. Happens all the time in paramilitary operations, which the X-Men happen to be.
I think you misunderstand what a leader is, a good soldier can be a leader, it doesn't have much to do with whether it's his ideal he's leading for or not. Leadership is not really about making choices, or at least not only about that.
>>81431794
So who do you support in this case then man
>>81432327
>didn't know Cyclops was dead
>look into it
>find this:
>The X-Men also gained a new member today, as "All-New X-Men" #1 from Dennis Hopeless and Mark Bagley introduced readers to Pickles. The tiny blue creature is actually a Bamf, a race of inter-dimensional creatures with the same features and teleportation powers as Nightcrawler. We meet Pickles in "All-New" #1 when Beast needs to transport his camper to Chicago.
>Hopeless has spoken of his fondness for the new character before. During the New York Comic Con X-Position interview, he said: "Pickles is my favorite character -- 100%. All of the characters are going to interact with Pickles because, number one, it's my favorite thing for Mark Bagley to draw. Like, I kind of just want to make Pickles in every scene -- the background of every scene -- so Mark has to do something with him. But, yeah, he plays a big role in the first arc and we'll be developing relationships with Pickles and everyone."
Why
>>81432586
>You know what, I see Cyclops as an abused child.
I think this is why he and Magik worked so well that even Bendis couldn't screw it up. Two people with fucked up childhoods trying their best to function as adults in an even more fucked up world.
>>81433772
please be an april fools joke
>>81433822
It's an article from December
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/new-x-men-issues-hint-at-cyclops-final-fate-introduce-tiny-teammate
