HYPERCRISIS THREAD:
Ok /co/, let's talk about the Justice League and their role within the Multiverse. Why are they so iconic? Do they represent some type of mythological concept or archetypal heroes?
Post your theories here /co/.
OP here, I'll start:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZElezm1HULE
Grant Morrison stated that each of the seven original JLA members were or are based on the seven chakra energies. The green text are ones stated by Morrison during the interview panel with Deepak Chopra. The non-green texts are my own assumptions.
>Base Chakra
Batman
Sacral Chakra
Wonder Woman
Solar Plexus
Green Lantern
>Heart
Superman
>Throat
The Flash
Brow
Martian Manhunter (Cyborg fills this role now)
Crown
Aquaman
Paracelsus, and other alchemists or his time, made a connection between the seven "planets" and the seven vital organs. The connections are as follows.
>Sun-Heart
>Moon-Brain
>Mercury-Lungs
>Mars-Gall Bladder
>Jupiter-Liver
>Saturn-Spleen
There may be a connection between these groups of seven and the Justice League.
>>81407098
If I were to assign each member of the Justice League to a planet/organ, I'm not sure who I would put where.
Superman seems to make most sense as the Sun/Heart, due to his powers being fueled by solar radiation and one of his defining characteristics being his compassion, or his "heart". But the sun is also what all the other planets revolve around. Would it be fair to say that the other members of the Justice League revolve around Superman? I'm not sure.
>>81407169
Moon/Brain seems like the kind of thing that would be attached to Batman. The brain is the organ of knowledge and intellect, which is Batman's greatest power. But does he fit with the moon? The moon is often associated with femininity, The moon also effects the waves and tides of the ocean, so it could also make sense for the moon to represent Aquaman. The Brain doesn't seem like it would represent either Aquaman or Wonder Woman.
>>81407098
>>81407169
Thank you for the contribution anon! Very interesting information.
>Would it be fair to say that the other members of the Justice League revolve around Superman?
I think that's a very fair point to make anon, Superman is the first superhero.
Looked up Paracelsus on Wiki. Quick glance read gave me that Paracelsus was actually ahead of his time in medicine, he believed in specific medicine cures rather than his time's cure all remedies and believed in germs. Quote below stood out:
>"The Germ Theory was anticipated by him as he proposed that diseases were entities in themselves, rather than states of being."
Can this be the Gentry? Morrison has written them to be almost as a disease that effects the reader and only superheroes acting as anti-bodies can save the reader.
>>81407248
>But does he fit with the moon?
Moon. Night. Bat. Dark. Lighting the darkness (with a bat-signal).
>>81407248
I doubt that there would be any debate over The Flash representing Mercury/Lungs. In Roman mythology, Mercury was the Messenger of the Gods (and the inspiration for Jay Garrick's head wear). The lungs are a little harder to justify. While the lungs are utilized during running, they aren't utilized anymore than the heart. On this I'm stumped.
>>81407341
Lungs=air=wind=speed.
>>81407098
I just noticed that I forgot to add one of the planet/organs
>Venus-Kidneys
>>81407341
>>81407374
Now, Venus the actual planet most closely associated with femininity and womanhood. Also in Roman mythology, Venus is the goddess of love and Woman Woman once wore a ring of the Star Sapphires. I'm not sure if she fits with kidneys though. The kidneys produce urine, a waste product. I'm not sure that fits (unless you mean how wasted Wonder Woman's rogues gallery is). The kidneys used to be thought of as the home of a persons conscience. The Talmud says that one kidney houses someones good and the other someones bad. This could possibly represent the duality of Wonder Woman's purpose as both a warrior and a diplomat.
>>81407582
The kidneys also process waste, which also fits because Wonder Woman is piss.
>>81406951
>51
So damn close.
Dropping my file to bump.
>>81407599
Only Morrison rolls 52s
>>81407374
>>81407361
>>81407341
>>81407324
>>81407248
>>81407169
OP here, I think you all are on to something with this anons. My own interruption would be (Keep in mind I'm not a doctor):
>Sun-Heart
Superman
>Moon-Brain
Batman
>Mercury-Lungs
Flash
>Venus-Kidneys
Wonder Woman
>Mars-Gall Bladder
Green Lantern. Mars is the god of war, you need iron will to win in a war so I placed GL here.
>Jupiter-Liver
Aquaman. Was torn as I too wanted to place him in as Moon but since Jupiter is a king planet, I placed the rightful heir to Atlantis' throne as Jupiter
>Saturn-Spleen
Martian Manhunter. I wanted to place him under Mars since the whole Martian but since he is the lone survivor, MM seems to me as a good stand in as a mysterious and haunted figure similar to the Roman god of Saturn.
Mars/Gallbladder seems like it would obviously be Martian Manhunter, The gallbladder was thought to house a persons gall, bravery or boldness. I haven't read much Martian Manhunter but he doesn't seem particularly brave, since he is always hiding in the form of a man. Although, in the Zangfu theory of Chinese Medicine the gallbladder was seen as the seat of decision making, which could fit into his telepathy or how in Justice League Unlimited (my only real exposure to Martian Manhunter) he ran the Watchtower and sent other heroes out on missions.
>>81407696
According to Wikipedia, the Chinese have an idiom of a "single gallbladder hero" (孤膽英雄) which means a lone hero, which could fit Martian Manhunter's loner status.
>>81406710
>>81407720
>>81406951
>>81407098
What would Marvel's Seven be? Does Marvel fit into the Seven theory as nicely as DC does? If not, why is that? I have read the Marvel Machine theory in which it compares Marvel to being mechanical or man made while DC is organic and free flowing. Makes since since Marvel was trying to copy DC's success with their heroes.
I know the Marvel Machine theory shows the Golden Age element trio is Cap= earth, Human Torch= fire and Namor= water
Can the Silver Age or Modern element trio be Cap= Earth, Iron Man= Fire and Thor= Water?
Any Hypercrisi about the Beyonders?
As another anon said, Jupiter may be Aquaman. They are both kings, after all. But Jupiter was a sky god, which is the opposite of a water hero like Aquaman. The astrological symbol for Jupiter (seen to your left) is stylized to look like a thunder bolt, which makes me suspect that Jupiter might actually represent Green Lantern. Jovial is the adjectival for of Jupiter which has come to mean happy or merry, which seems to fit Green Lantern more than Aquaman (OUTRAGEOUS). The Chinese, Japanese and Koreans would call Jupiter the "Wood Star", which could reference the original Green Lanterns weakness against wood, but that kind of feels like I'm stretching it.
Now onto the liver. In Greek mythology Prometheus would would have his liver eaten by a bird everyday as punishment for giving the gift of fire to human. This gift of fire could possibly be interpreted as the Starheart, though I don't know who would be punished in this situation (the Guardians of the Universe?)
>>81407990
>>81407764
>>81407696
Wow now I'm very interested and what the Chinese alchemy interruption of the JLA would be.
Finally, there is Saturn/Spleen. Unfortunately for Aquaman, he seems to be stuck with the left overs. In Roman mythology, Saturn was the leader of the titans and the father of civilization. In astrology, the sign of Libra falls under Saturn. Libra is the scales of law and justice, which could reference the fact that Aquaman is a king, and thus the decided what is law and what is just for his people. Before the discovery of Uranus, Saturn had the astrological sign of Aquarius under it's domain. In William Shakespeare's Julius Ceaser, the spleen is used to represent Ceaser's irritable nature. In Ancient Greek, to be "good spleened" was the same as being "good hearted". The Talmud thought that the spleen was the organ of laughter.
All these inconsistent characterization of the spleen could possibly represent Aquaman's constantly changing nature in the comics.
>>81407990
>The astrological symbol for Jupiter (seen to your left) is stylized to look like a thunder bolt,
I don't see it. I see a 24, and a wave crashing against a wall.
>>81407169
>>81407248
>>81407341
>>81407582
>>81407696
>>81407990
>>81408238
Also, I should add that I don't really know what I'm talking about. I did this on the fly and got all this information from Wikipedia, so if anyone who actually knows about all this stuff has anything to say about it please chime in.
>>81408266
That's just what it said on Wikipedia, there could be other interpretations that I don't know about.
Did /Hypercrisis/ senpaitachi liked BvS?
>>81408290
>>81408340
No worries anon, this is how we find the answers so thank you for contributing to the thread. You have provided very good material!
>>81408266
Very interesting, would fit with >>81407875 theory of Thor and Namor sharing in being the water element in the MU.
>>81407875
Marvel tends to run off less natural and spiritual patterns and more "mechanical" man-made ones, like you said. They don't so much have a Holy Trinity as much and they have upgrades and advancement, you start with the First Family, the Fantastic Four which represent the crude alchemy of our past (Ben = Earth, Johnny = Fire, Sue = Air, Reed = Water). Then we advance to men made of Iron and Metal (Stark, Logan, T'Challa with his Vibranium, and Doom with his mask). Doom being Metal as the progressive step beyond alchemy to science is the perfect foil for the FF. We then move past that, Marvel pushes characters based on genetics like the X-Men and Spider-Man, or physics like the Hulk. As Marvel adapts, they leave characters behind to stand upon the shoulders of giants. The Marvel machine gains a sense of self-awareness when Starlin makes the storylines involving Thanos and the IG, an artifical attempt to create and expand on greater concepts within the universe (theoretical physics). Marvel is not an organic expression of ideals like DC, it is more like an artificial intelligence that tries to constantly adapt and change itself to become more popular (Ultron). We have now reached a point where the A.I. has learned how to interact better, faster, reaching more people (Now! and All-New All-Different). It is forcing its own evolution of characters with the sudden influx of legacy characters and Inhumans. DC will go through many iterations of Superman to reach the ideal hero, Marvel will go through many heroes to create the perfect Spider-Man.
I tried posting this in a Multiversity thread but it wasn't very well received. Just ramblings on Supes and the Hypercrisis.
Alright here goes, not sure how verbose to get with it so sorry if I ramble. So the utter bewilderment at how Superman has been portrayed cinematically this decade really got me thinking. It's definitely disheartening and borderline unbelievable the way that the character has been portrayed. Superman is a relatively simplistic character whose defining traits of goodness are very easy to pinpoint and also directly contribute to him resonating in the public consciousness for so long. The fact that these traits are being ignored can very easily be attributed to changing times or apathetic capitalism. BUT, when you frame this borderline bastardization of arguably the most benevolent popular character within the context of the Hypercrisis, another explanation emerges that fits too well to be ignored. So, the Hypercrisis is real, and fiction is its own reality that affects our own in ways both subtle and obvious. Morrison crystallized these ideas over the past few decades and disseminated them to what I have to assume is the widest audience ever exposed to said ideas. The Hypercrisis is stronger than ever before as it grows in the largest consciousness imaginable. Superman gets reinterpreted as the new American mythology now that organized religion has finally lost it's foothold on the masses. When before he was dismissed as a frivolity for children, when the Hypercrisis takes hold he transcends his origins and becomes the symbol of light, goodness, and hope that has been sorely missing from the public consciousness. A beacon that reminds us of the power and strength that we all have within ourselves. SO, if these ideas of selflessness and hope for a better future actually gained a foothold in the minds of the masses, how would you snuff them out? Cont.
>>81408540
By reinterpreting the character in a way that contradicts these notions and then unleashing him on an even larger scale. Cont. Replacing the Sun God that will save us all and bring light to the world with a dour, dark, scary creature who does not even know how to help himself, let alone other people. Since the audience for movies vastly trumps that of the one where the true Superman was born, the character that was eliciting change as an avatar of Good as people realized the lines between fiction and reality weren't as concrete as once believed becomes vastly overshadowed in the public consciousness by a twisted version of the character that is meant to propogate negative ideas and enforce the status quo that is leading us to oblivion. Now, I will concede that this is largely hypothetical and can be interpreted as grasping at straws. But if you think the Hypercrisis is real, that something isn't quite right with our world, that sinister forces might actually be pulling the strings and manipulating people away from ideas that would genuinely change the world for the better, then the way that Superman, the pinnacle of our potential for good and a hope for a better future, is portrayed should give you a lot of food for thought.
>>81407875
I think you are missing a key ingredient in the "superheroes represent the elements" thing and that ingredient is air.
I agree that the golden age heroes would be Cap-Earth, Human Torch-Fire and Namor-Water, but there is also The Angel - Air.
For the silver age, I think that there could be two interpretations. There could be Cap-Earth, Iron Man-Fire, Thor-Water and Silver Surfer-Air. You could also interpret it with Marvel's first family. Human Torch-Fire, The Thing-Earth, Invisible Woman-Air, and Mr. Fantastic-Water.
>>81408554
>a dour, dark, scary creature who does not even know how to help himself, let alone other people
Made me quite sad. Poor supes, but hey, I have to have hope that he will pull through eventually.
It is superman, after all, he's beaten worse.
Vaguely related, but do you guys think it will last another 80~ years?
I really hope so.
Quick comparison between Superman in Action Comics #1 and a painting of Samson.
>>81408713
Even if both of the Big 2 collapse, eventually their remnants will lack the ability or resources to keep them out of the public domain, at this point the Hypercrisis will begin expanding fractally as the ideas behind capeshit are expressed in an unseen number of new ways
>>81408540
>>81408554
As much as I was shocked at the Man of Steel scene (my jaw dropped)...Superman has killed Zod before in the Christopher Reeves movie. Granted they were Disney deaths but they stilled died.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUORL-bvwA0
>>81408804
As a hypercrisis theorist(Jesus Christ, I actually said that. kill me)I want that to happen, however the fan in me who like things being vaguely consistent would probably commit sudoku.
>>81406710
As much as I hate SJWs and idk all that shit, it's weird how literally they are all white, apart from the Martian.
>>81408668
Well said. Any reason why you chose Silver Surfer?
>>81408847
the 40s-50s were an entirely different planet, dude.
I just wish they were not so..excessively rampant with the race swaps.
>>81408855
I chose him because he surfs through the air. It wasn't a particularly deep choice.
>>81408847
They are a product of their time. In the 50's and 60's it would be almost impossible to sell a book starring a non-white character that wasn't a massive stereotype. And once the Justice League lineup became iconic, the damage was already done.
>>81408847
>>81408877Speaking of, it's kind of annoying how people play up the "lack of diversity" by erroneously claiming every white hero is a blond haired blue eyed Arian.
>>81408937
You are literally a racist
How do you guys feel about the fact that in us 'becoming' supermen, we are slowly killing off the need for Superman himself?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIKYRZc9A1M
>>81408981
I'm okay with that.
>>81409011
Thanks for this. I think I'm going to make a hypercrisis youtube playlist for things like this. I'll link it once I'm done, and maybe link it in later hypercrisis threads.
>>81409011
I think that as far as humanity goes, there will always be the impossible and Superman, in whatever form he ends up taking in a gorrillion years will still be needed to fill that fantasy of reaching said impossibility.
>>81409087
looking forward to it
>>81409131
If any of you have any videos that you want added, post them now so I can put them in.
>>81409115
In a hundred years or however long it takes, Superman will either become even more ridiculous (moving into post cosmic or even metaversial levels) to be able to show a man beyond man, or perhaps we as humans will advance enough that some of his accomplishments will be more that of a lower super hero than the top teir of heroics
>>81408539
>>81408668
>>81408855
With the Marvel Machine theory, the Fantastic Four was a huge success in kick starting the MU because it was calculated?
4 = a square which is a perfect shape according to mathematicians and ancient thinkers. A square is the best shape in any foundation.
>>81409242
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UuTd4pKHPo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcW_EaNJQSo - covers a lot of stuff, but there are a fair few related points in there. Really worth the time, if you haven't listened to it.
>>81409242
>>81409131
>>81409087
Playlist is right here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIKYRZc9A1M&list=PLq-_SviLVAhy1xISPECRHxTXQmryaw-xH
I'll be updating it as regularly as I can remember.
>>81409632
>>81408539
So Marvel is self-aware and adapted according to ensure its' survival?..... QUIPS!
>>81409606
What happened with this?
>>81407676
>Martian Manhunter not being Mars
>Green Lantern not being the planet with rings
you had ONE JOB
>>81409959
Holy shit I never even considered the whole ring aspect. I feel so stupid.
>>81410044
Dubs confirm you are stupid
>>81410077
I don't need my dubs or yours to confirm that, I already know.
Got this list from comic vine http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/justice-league-of-america-630/morrison-greek-god-s-correlation-1526058/. Pretty much listing the gods Morrison used as a bases for his JL run
1.Superman-Zeus: king of the gods/god of the sky=number 1 superhero
2.Batman-Hades:god of the dead and riches who lives in the underworld=Rich guy who is haunted by death and lives in the batcave. Both are considered nessescary evils.
3.Wonder Woman-Hera:Queen of the gods biggest female superheroes
4.Green lantern-Apollo: god of light and art=graphic artist with a power ring
5.Oracle:Goddess of Knowledge and Strategy=number one information broker of the dcu
6.Flash-Apollo-god of speed=fastest man alive
7.Aquaman-Poseidon: god of the seas=king of Atlantis
8.Martian Manhunter-Chiron: overseer/mentor to the gods but not truly a god himself=overseer mentor to the team yet somewhat isolated
9.Zauriel-Eros:god of sexual love=angel who fell in love with human woman
10.Plastic Man-Dionysius: hedonistic trickster god of wine=hedonistic trickster superhero
11.Orion-Ares:brutal Olympian god of war=savage apokolyptian Dog/God of War
12.Steel-Hephaestus :Hephaestus was god of the forge and made the Olympians weapons whereas Steel was the Leagues head tech expert and made several if the JL's gadgets.
>>81408668
>Iron Man-Fire
>>81407875
>Iron Man= Fire
I don't see it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k7HGReDXuA
Interesting take.
>>81410044
I think it's kinda neat how it's all so damn close to being self-evident. I think the Aquaman-Jupiter link is the only one that's kinda stretching it. If only Neptune were a classical planet!
>>81410276
It can be seen as Promethean fire or the fire in his heart.
>>81406710
>GL is behind Bats
>Ring glow shines in FRONT of Bat's ears
>Muh autism.
>>81410318
> the fire in his heart.
right, along with every superhero ever
>>81409011
>killing off the need for Superman himself?
you mean like in BvS?
>>81410476
when darkseid shows up, they're gonna fucking need superman
>>81408713
I don't think humanity will last another 80 years, so no.
>>81410416
>It can be seen as Promethean fire or the fire in his heart.
I think he means the literal eletric/eletronic gadget that kept his heart beating for most of his comics and in all appearances in the cartoons and movies.
>>81410501
the movies are pushing pure abstract concepts into reality
the painting itself has two opposing forces, much how BvS escalated to a match of two pure literal metaphors killing and therefore negating each other in an ouroboros, the next movie will have an escalation
BvS represented a cleansing of the mind, Justice League will seek to take the new energy established by BvS and propel it outward by the enveloping darkness
a light in the darkness
much like consciousness....
>>81410476
Is this a real painting, or did they make it up for the movie? Cause that Orion symbol is Hypercrisis as fuck.
>>81407764
This fits Nu52 Cyborg too.
>>81410635
You need fire to create steel anon. Fire has always been the symbol of technology and advancement
the message of bvs is that hope can triumph in the face of cynicism
is our own reality in relation to this movie reflecting this?
will bvs succeed in spite of cynicism? what will this hypothetical success mean? production on Justice League begins in almost two weeks, does this mean that by the time they begin production, people will want to see justice league? was this their intent?
I'm new to this Hypercrisis thing, but I need to ask. Have you guys given any thought to the hipster cops mistery?
It was a thing back in 2011, a red headed guy with a goatee and a dark haired guy with sideburns appearing in a lot of books on Marvel and DC and at least once on the Transformers comic.
>>81410227
>>81410227
What a shit list. A few of them aren't proper Olympians and Apollo is on it twice (Flash is obviously Hermes).
>>81410715
i don't know, i'm inclined to think it's a physical painting though
i've been waiting for the rest of you to catch on
>the movies don't shy away from product placement, seemingly getting specific brands depending on the movie
>MoS 7/11 sears ihop, american staples you see everywhere, movie is birth of superman out of kansas
>BvS all sorts of toy companies, a bunch of middle to upper class car companies, doritos, pepsi, general mills, turkish airlines. it's a bigger world that has already been introduced to. superman already exists. i think lex uses a brand name candy in a scene
>suicide squad dunkin donuts monster energy drinks don't know what else, has a lollipop in logo, at least two characters modeled after real life pop culture figures
subconsciously setting a connection to our own world on screen
>>81410786
No. Was it teasing a crossover? Never heard of it.
>>81410859
Oops! Good catch anon, I just copied and pasted from the website but yeah the Flash is Hermes
You sound knowledgeable in this area anon. What would your interpretation be?
guys have any of you like... idk felt the hypercrisis or like seen hypertime or something???
>>81410992
No. That's the weird part. It was always a pair of extras in the background, generally cops, just there for a single panel. It happened on both Marvel and DC, everytime by different artists and writers. If it was an elaborate prank nobody ever came forth to assume it. It intrigued me so much that every once in a while I search to see if something happened with it.
>>81410992
>>81410786
http://comicsalliance.com/scott-snyder-conspiracy-cops-kids-comics/
>>81410992
>>81410786
Scroll down to #1
http://www.cracked.com/article_20356_5-recurring-movie-extras-you-wont-believe-you-never-noticed_p2.html
All the books were published by the same company, from memory, so it was likely someone doing it for shits and giggles. Or to save putting effort into designing characters.
>>81411054
Huntress as Artemis, that's one Morrison definitely intended. Barda as Athena. Oracle, who was more of a secret member, fits best as the Oracle of Delphi.
>>81410990
>You will never have an Hypercrisis thresome with Skwad Harley and Debbie Harris
Why live
>>81411130
>>81411131
>Cracked
>ComicsAlliance
Holy fuck why don't you link to BleedingCool and Kotaku while you are at it faggot?
>>81411130
>>81411131
Huh. Thanks.
>>81410990
BvS purposely uses extended associations from outside culture and movies to tell it's story
>casting of lex luthor as hip millenial billionaire, same guy who played zuckerberg
>cavill was in immortals, story of theseus suspiciously has many similarities to superman story so far in dceu
>affleck older broken down superman, he had failed earlier as daredevil, a similar 'demonic' type character
>bruce wayne's first encounter with martha kent is oddly similar visually to prior film with ben affleck and diane lane
>wonder woman is a foreign warrior woman, gadot was a model who has served in the military
>bvs makes allusions to tropes, movie scenes, movie tropes, mythic tropes, editing tropes, esotericism, symbolism, figures of real historical relevance in american psyche,
>bvs invites free flowing free association from the viewer
>archetypal imagery and relationships
>patterns of three important to the movie, patterns of two as well
>climax of the movie contains all the meanings and themes and all the extended associations of above, pure literal abstraction on film
>>81411113
>Pic very much related
>>81411216
I posted the cracked link for no other reason than to get your reaction. twas worth
>>81411269
no but i mean like... do u guys ever feel like youve really been IN it
>>81411283
>I was only pretending to be retarded XD
>>81411290
Every time I read a comic, anon.
>>81411353
is that flex mentallo? and have you seen primer anon?
>>81411390
Yes, and no. Is it good?
>>81411290
There is never a time when you are NOT experiencing hypertime, anon.
>>81411428
dammit dont remind me
>>81411290
Do we all have an inner superhero and if so how would one connect to it?
What does Hypercrisis say about this notion of superheroes being our guardian angels or our true potential? How do we unlock it? Is wanting to be a superhero a trap by the Oblivion Machine?
>>81411257
>the climax of bvs presents us with an ideas not only central to the plot and story but to our own reality as well
>the idea of personal savior god who comes from above is killed
>superman's monument on earth is destroyed, this monument is a some sort of psychological magical(i'm assuming) anchor
>magick is used in both MoS and BvS
>MoS logo is the insignia of hope, as the movie progresses we're introducing with moral questions and the idea of hope, and the idea that absolutes should not define the individual
>BvS logo is the MoS logo, one that is now anchored in our minds as the symbol of hope, along with a bat around it. in the trailer the bat is illuminated from above behind and one with the symbol of hope, all our subconscious associations with batman are bonded with the extended associations with superman
>in the movie batman becomes an apostle for the message of hope
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45h73pDutBk
all of this is intentional
>>81411423
it is. it talks indirectly about hypertime and the crisis
>>81411423
Naw, hipster bullshit masquerading as DEEP. Basically Nolan with physics.
>>81411460
sweet. ill get around to watching it later today
>>81406710
What happens at the minute 52 of BvS?
>>81411448
son im not sure. it might be the gentry. it sure does feel a lot like this.
>>81411474
I didn't ask for a /co/ntrarian faggots opinion.
>>81411600
It's not an opinion if it's true.
![5019900-amed5yq[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/FBfgU5R.jpg "5019900-amed5yq[1].jpg")
>>81411496
The Knightmare begins, Batman sees the Omega symbol. Not even joking.
>MoS contrasts two opposing views of the individual within society
>free individual free to make their own choice
>individuals bred to function in the state
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OUkztFhUeI [Embed]
>>81411662
No fucking way
>>81411436
>In another timeline you are a superhero
>>81411662
>>81411662
>omega symbol is a brand on the earth like how batman brands his victims
>batman wills justice into the world through his brand
>that scene in particular is where he's interrogating a sex trafficker, someone who oppresses and chains the female principle
>superman has a statue and people use his symbol to summon him
>>81411703
>>81411734
>this movie is for the fans
are you doubting them anymore, /co/?
are we still reading too much into the movie?
>>81411662
We're going too deep. So deep that we may never be able to surface again.
>>81411460
ok wait in primer it basically says the you of your timeline and the you of a past timeline basically an alternate you can swap places through the "space between space/time between time" aka the bleed
>>81411703
The 52nd second of the 52nd minute to be more precise.
>>81411662
IMPOSSIBLE
>BvS is in part the transformation and ascension of three aspects or representations of the male principle
>fear doubt projections and a predisposition to not share get transfigured into hope and brotherhood
>>81411662
>>81411833
Guys I'm scared
>>81411908
well that's the wrong image. opps.
>>81410659
Nah, Supes is one of the very few heavy hitters than can take on Darkseid. No Supes, no victory. That's it.
>>81411908
Is this McFarlane or Capullo?
>>81411833
There's no way they're not planning this shit now. Between this and the black sun on Lex's demons/angels painting, there's gotta be some legit Hypercrisis shit going on.
>>81411833
>00:51:52
Anon, check your pic before you post it.
>>81411922
embrace it. the hypercrisis is now
>>81411952
pretty sure it was McFarlane
>>81411833
The bootleg movie starts at 00:00?
>>81411967
That is the 52nd minute of the movie. It starts at 0 minutes. 0-1, 1-2, 2-3, etc. Learn to count.
>>81411970
It's moving across forms of entertainment and will soon permeate into the real world
>>81412015
It starts with the fade in to the WB logo. It's pretty precise.
>>81412016
Well shit. I never counted zeroes.
>>81412021
Not long now, anon.
>>81411662
Hahaha! Holy Shit! I love this stuff!
>>81412081
I never noticed Superman in that page. Is it supes or just a similar outfit?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XD-UMLLCGY
>bruce wayne must assemble the justice league
>within the logic of bvs he is an apostle of hope
>he founds the community of brotherly love that shares hope
>superman's character has to go through a crucible to understand humanity, has to face mortality, his death births hope into the atmosphere
>Superman is stabbed through the symbol of hope on his chest by doomsday's right hand, a repeat of zod stabbing jor-el with his right hand
>in the same way that MoS births superman as a symbol of hope, BvS births hope as a symbol spreads hope to everyone, including us
>death and resurrection are the same thing
>>81411752
>Now all of Metropolis is his Symbol.
Shit, that's deep.
>>81411662
>>81411833
This cannot be real.
HYPERCRISIS TRAIN HAS NO BREAKS
>>81411499
I've read this story quite a few times, and I still don't entirely get it. WHAT was my eye all along?
>>81412212
>WHAT was my eye all along?
The Oblivion Machine.
>>81411662
>there are people who STILL doubt Johns is in on the hypercrisis
>>81406710
>archetypal heroes
>Superman
Classic Ideal Hero, archetype does not necessarily need to have Superman's powerset/Superman clones that do have his powerset and fit his "biggest gun in the arsenal" niche
>Batman
Street vigilante/anti-hero/Masked hero with no powers but otherwise talented and resourceful/Science hero to an extent depending on how much gadgetry he wants to show off
>Wonder Woman
Divine or fantasy hero/token female heroine/magical hero
>Flash
Single-powered hero with multiple applications
>Green Lantern
Space hero(regardless of most Superman-clones in other franchises also being aliens, Green Lantern is focused more cosmically), also Military/Law Enforcement hero in sense of many of the Green Lanterns having such backgrounds and the Corps being space law enforcement
>Aquaman
Element-themed hero
>Martian Manhunter
Psychic hero/Visibly inhuman hero(when he's not shapeshifting, obviously)
I think they cover the broadest niches by which you can peg other superheroes.
>>81412149
Probably just a similar outfit, but it stayed red and blue in the recolored version so it's probably an intentional reference
>>81411955
You should have known the moment the Flash TV show mentioned that fungus the same week the Multiversity issue with it came out. Johns and Morrison are definitely working across mediums.
>>81412412
>Fungus
I never watch the Flash tv show so you might want to elaborate on that anon.
>>81412189
>fucking hack who hated the opening to bvs because it 'changes' the fundamental nature of batman
>projects a bunch of his own insecurities on not only that scene but the movie in general
>exposed as either not reading DKR or having blind BvS hate
>>81411908
>>81412001
CONTEXT PLEASE!
>>81410307
Well, just as Jupiter was the king of the Roman Pantheon, Aquaman is the only Justice League member who is a king.
>>81412480
I think they mention the cordyceps fungus the same week someone (The Just Damien I think) hypothesizes that cordyceps is the reason why Ultra Comics was taking over peoples minds.
>>81412531
Mcfarlane is being a bitch.
>the perception of the movie is changing just like the perception of it's characters did within the movie
>>81412480
3rd panel
>>81412531
meta book McFarlane did where spawn travels to hell, finds all superheroes are there as well as their original creators. Alludes to the fact that when the original creators sold their creations, they lost their soul, both literally and metaphorically in a 'purpose of the characters kind of way'.
>>81411454
>>81411257
I'm not sure Snyder is wise enough to have planned this, it may just be an unconscious urge. Which is Hypercrisis all the same, the characters influencing the creators and vice versa. We may still be giving the movie too much credit.
>>81412531
made younger me pretty damn upset when I saw this comic the first time
>>81412729
>Underestimating the combined power of Snyder, Terrio, and Johns
>>81412729
>I'm not sure Snyder is wise enough to have planned this, it may just be an unconscious urge. Which is Hypercrisis all the same, the characters influencing the creators and vice versa. We may still be giving the movie too much credit.
everything i posted fits thematically within the movie
snyder himself talks about mythology and other ideas confirming the overt use of symbols to represent ideas
i cite this video for my claims of symbolism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45h73pDutBk
>>81412729
It only takes Johns though
>hey man, wouldn't it be cool to put this scene here?
>>81412768
>Terrio said he found Morrison's work most interesting
http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2016/03/11/inside-chris-terrios-vision-for-batman-superman-and-justice-league/
>the discussion of the movie is now moving from connecting the dots within the movie to connecting the dots external to it
>>81412768
Terrio and Johns, I can trust. It's Snyder who is the weak link.
>>81412872
Snyder seems easily swayed
>>81412895
someone needs to sway him into reading all star superman
>>81412872
Any chain has a weak link. But every weak link has it's strong points. Snyder's strong point seems to be his interest of symbolism.
>>81412921
This, a thousand times.
>>81412921
isn't there already a motion picture adaptation of that?
>>81413028
>no Zibarro
IT'S SHIT
>>81413028
You mean the watered down animated version?
>>81412923
just as how the movie shows its heroes working together to their strong points, the dceu behind and in front of the camera seek to work synergistically
>>81413028
>No Zibarro
>No suicide girl
>The lines are changed to make Supes look a lot more "badass"
They even managed to ruin the No Superman Earth.
>>81413147
since we are in a hypercrisis thread....
maybe the version of superman you want in this instance isn't the most potent one, therefore not able to make it on the big screen
>>81413147
>>81413055
>>81413047
Watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VO9505oVkM&index=10&list=PLq-_SviLVAhy1xISPECRHxTXQmryaw-xH
>>81413250
perhaps. Kinda depressing though.
>>81413250
I don't know about that. He's been pretty Supermanly in mainstream stuff like Lego Batman (all versions really) and even longrunning series like Lois & Clark and Smallville (as shitty as it was at times, I didn't really mind Clark). It's just easy to get wrong too.
>>81413283
for who, anon?
>>81413271
>33 minutes
maybe later
>>81413352
what appeal did those have? how far did they go? are those specific examples capable of expanding in the widest possible way?
>>81413361
Me. because it's really 'not muh superman'.
it's not the superman people deserve, he might be best suited to the world as it is right now, but that's a world I really don't wanna keep living in.
>>81413505
there's always hope, anon
>>81413565
it's what keeps me going
>>81413461
>what appeal did those have?
Superman
>how far did they go?
What part of long running do you not understand? Also kep Superman in te public mind much more than the comics did.
>are those specific examples capable of expanding in the widest possible way?
What does that even mean?
>>81413505
>best suited to the world as it is right now
That's not the point. The world doesn't need a Superman that's representative of the world as it is now.
The world *needs* hope that the world can become better than it currently is.
>>81411662
YOU'RE SHITTING ME
>>81413505
Same. I can handle the in-universe narrative of people hating on Superman, but Supes himself being so dour and gloomy, to the point where his acts of heroism look like they put him in pain, is just too much.
>>81413701
and bvs shows us that putting all our hopes and dreams on one entity is not the answer
>>81413701
>That's not the point. The world doesn't need a Superman that's representative of the world as it is now.
what the fuck are you on about? That's exactly what I was implying.
Mos supes is so prevalent because he fits in with todays society, unlike the 'donner' superman we all know and love.
Good job not actually reading my post before replying to it.
>>81413737
I interpreted BvS more about how humans are inclined to project their own mindsets, assumptions and insecurities onto heroes and figures of authorities.
Just as everyone projects different things onto the movie itself.
>BvS has been a psychedelic experience for individuals and might turn out to be a mass psychedelic experience
>>81413885
I'd be scared if I hadn't already accepted the hypercrisis into my heart
>>81413831
>Just as everyone projects different things onto the movie itself.
something it takes advantage of, it uses archetypes present throughout history set in a current context to be able to take on all these associations
>>81413885
One that it seems the majority of people rejected judging from the hugely negative critical response.
>>81413028
It was so bad that the writer commited suicide
>>81413737
That's not a new lesson though.
>>81413940
Not really, what backfired is that people projected expectations that are impossible to live up to, rather than taking the movie at its own logic and presentation.
I just wanted a movie that provided an interesting platform for the rest of the DC cinematic universe, and that's pretty much exactly what I got (with a side order of a fucking awesome Batman to boot.
>>81413998
No, but it's one that people continually need to re-learn.
>>81413998
>That's not a new lesson though.
sure, but i'd say it's one that is very pertinent right now....
>BvS seeks to make us more aware of ourselves
>others have noted the connection to man's duality
>BvS seeks for us as individuals to overcome ourselves
>>81412764
>Doctor Light
>Doc Ock
>Juggernaut
>Joker
>Venom
>heroes
>>81411908
>Text reads the Supes is a good guy but the art says otherwise.
Superman looks so creepy and sinister here.
>>81414005
>people projected expectations that are impossible to live up to, rather than taking the movie at its own logic and presentation.
>BvS deals with how different people with different backgrounds project different things on different people instead of taking them as they are
I feel we're inching closer and closer to 'You didn't like it because you didn't understand.' or more concisely 2deep4you.
>>81412895
He was the one who pushed for killing Zod, even over Nolan not wanting it in there.
>>81414140
I think that's suppose to be Frank and not Dr. Light anon
>>81408539
>DC will go through many iterations of Superman to reach the ideal hero, Marvel will go through many heroes to create the perfect Spider-Man.
I love this.
>>81414173
Where the hell have you been? That's the most popular rhetoric to use on anyone who didn't like it. That and "you must not read comic books".
>>81414173
Not exactly. It's more of an analysis of the general ideas and themes rather than debating the execution of them
>>81414173
It's kind of the opposite for me, I think the movie's themes were pretty damn simple and explicitly stated within the context of the film.
It genuinely baffles me when people say that the characters were poorly developed or contradictory, or that there was no message or clear theme in the movie.
>>81414232
This. Hypercrisis discussions rely on a huge amount of Death of the Author, Even if we can make all these cool connections within the characters and themes of BvS, I doubt that all of them were intentional.
>>81414299
And of course half of the fun in the hypercrisis are those unintended connections that just make a lot of sense; the idea of a self-generating narrative
>>81414299
> This has been the most rigorous intellectual exercise I’ve had in my writing life.
from a guy who
>graduated in 1997 from Harvard University, where he concentrated in English literature and German phenomenology
>>81414173
Hypercrisis has always been 2deep4u fucking newfag
>chris's interview confirms everything we see in the movie
>>81414422
I don't doubt that Terrio knows what he's talking about, but I'm pretty sure he was exaggerating that statement in the interview.
I said this in another thread, but I wish we had a better breakdown of what Terrio specifically wrote, what Goyer wrote, and how Snyder's direction oversaw all of it.
I just realized that the Justice League, just like both versions of the Seven Soldiers of Victory, is a team of seven that has eight members.
There's the original team of Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Green Lantern, Flash and Martian Manhunter. But with the New 52 brought Cyborg on as an original member of the team. A team of seven made up of eight members.
>>81414440
Thanks for your insightful reply. I will not readily dismiss Hypercrisis threads ever again.
>>81414491
>counting Cyborg as a member
Fuck off Johns
>>81414514
He's pretty right though, we've always dug deep on these things.
>>81414485
You can certainly make guesses and Terrio seems like a good writer honestly. I think a stronger director is really in order.
>>81414514
You're welcome friend :^)
>>81414540
>>81414485
From what I can tell, Terrio wrote everything up until the senate bombing as up until then it felt more like a political movie. After that Batman went psycho and it turned into punchy punchy smashy smashy, which is probably what Goyer wrote. Goyer/Snyder definitely came up with the Martha ending to the fight.
>>81414485
>>81414638
read the interview posted above, and tell me if there's anything stated about the movie on here that doesn't coincide with the bits of information he puts in there
>>81414638
>After that Batman went psycho
Batman was already on the edge of psycho, of course a suicide bombing in the capitol that Superman apparently failed to stop WHILE HE WAS PRESENT would drive him over the edge and make him realize that something had to be done immediately.
>Goyer/Snyder definitely came up with the Martha ending to the fight.
Affleck's delivery of those lines was pretty fucking hammy but I actually thought that was an effective way of doing it.
>>81414730
I liked Affleck's delivery there. He sounded more menacing than Bale ever did.
>>81414730
I don't think the MARTHA idea was all that bad, the problem of it was all the flashbacks to remind us that Batman's mom was named Martha as if we just forgot.
>>81414730
Batman lost a lot of his charmnin the second half though. He played detective pretty nicely until then. He doesn't go full on BAT OF MURDER until the second half.
>>81409011
>Superman began as a god
>Overtime he evolved into a symbol
>Fredric Wertham wrote Seduction of the Innocent
>Set back comics for decades
>Held back the evolution of Superheroes and humanity
>Bent the world to his will
>Final Crisis shows that Darkseid can inhabit a human host body
>Wertham was Darkseid breaking into Earth 33
>Seduction of the Innocent was an unfinished Anti-Life Equation
>>81414886
>he problem of it was all the flashbacks to remind us that Batman's mom was named Martha as if we just forgot.
Oh yeah that's pretty stupid. Not going to try and defend that.
>>81414905
I think it was intentional. I mean Alfred already spent that first half of the movie warning him to back off, then WHOOPS GUESS WHAT HAPPENS.
Really Batman's whole arc I think can be summarized as "comes dangerously close to becoming Lex Luthor before he realizes his mistake"
>>81414946
Oh please. Seduction of the Innocent was just human stupidity and the periodic need for a moral outraged panic. I think ascribing that to one individual is giving him too much credit.
>>81414886
>>81414954
The flashback was supposed to be for the normies, bu have you seen all of the normies who think they became besties because both of their moms name was Martha instead of realizing that it was Batman realizing he had become Joe Chill that made him friends with Superman?
>>81414540
>>81414570
Where did you get this from? Is there website with all the other ones as well?
>>81415039
Yeah, in this situation Wertham was a manipulator like Desaad or the Glorious Godfrey. In this situation, Darkseid would be Senator Robert Hendrikson.
>>81415073
Yeah I thought it was pretty silly how people misunderstood his motivations so badly in that scene.
>from the same studio that released the matrix, inception
>our own culture has different sides who are currently striving for power while not recognizing their internal contradictions
>perhaps our own world also has a seemingly harmless entity who plays both sides in order that they may destroy each other
>as individuals and as a collective we must face our doubts and our fears
>>81415169
>>81415039
>modern trend to take male white characters and turn them into women or minorities starts with Laura Hudson from ComicsAlliance and whatsername from the Mary Sue
>they are the modern female version of Wertham, Deesad and Glorious Godfrey
P O T T E R Y
O
T
T
E
R
Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C16eiQH06RE [Embed]
https://youtu.be/yUtW6KIdtxE [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNujOlEeQMg [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGPIhrSvhZg [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7UX81BXIc0 [Embed]
>spectator media
>bvs is spectator media and yet....
>in the kingdom come thread there are anons who barely just noticed a detail in a comic that is oh so beloved to them
>yet the things we see in BvS are not there
>>81415084
I think some are linked in here: http://journal.transformativeworks.org/index.php/twc/article/view/442/397
>>81415807
What is the detail?
>>81415838
And this being said I was here for some of the earlier stuff so I don't know what is and isn't in there. What I have is from my own personal backups. Like I have part of one of the "Gotham wants to fuck Tim Drake" threads but I don't have images apparently.
>>81415859
reflection on the cover
>>81415948
How could someone miss that?
