Is Daredevil Marvel's best character? I don't necessarily mean in terms of personality, powers, or popularity, I'm thinking purely from a quality of comics/stories involving him. So I'm perfectly fine saying Spidey, Cap, basically the entirety of the Avengers and X-men are better than him, but I don't think they have better stories and runs.
I can't think of anybody better, especially Frank Miller's stuff, but I'm asking this because I'd love to discover even better Marvel stuff out there.
I think Claremont's X-men stuff is probably the second best I've read, and then either Brubaker on Cap or just the classic Spidey stories. But nothing touched DD in my opinion.
I'm not sure exactly what you're asking, but I'd say Thunderbolts is Marvel's best, longest running book.
That was a lot of words to ask "which heroes have the best overall story quality historically?"
Daredevil is definitely up there at or near the top. From what I've heard, Swamp Thing is also like that, but I haven't read him yet. Personally, I'd put any Peter David X-factor work there (so a shit ton of X-factor).
>>81391018
hey thanks! That's similar to what I'm asking, I guess I'm asking who's the best Marvel character in terms of actual story quality.
>>81391106
you're right, I tend to be too wordy on forums unfortunately. But thanks, I'll check out X-factor!
>>81390930
Jesus thats some terrible art holyshit
Spidey VS Batman's rogues gallery and vice versa comes up every once in a while, but what about Daredevil?
I think he's be great against the ones that mainly hire mooks (Twoface, Penguin), but against people like Clayface?
>>81391160
X-factor volume 3 is the greatest run in comics in my opinion. Start with the Madrox marvel Knights mini as it lays the groundwork for volume 3. Honestly, the only weak issues in the entire volume are two Secret Invasion tie ins and it's just because I hate the artist they used for them.
>>81390930
I've only been reading comics for about a year (big DC, Valiant, and indie fan), trying to get into Marvel now. Starting with Frank Miller's Daredevil. Should I read anything before his run? I'd also like to read Thunderbolts. I'm especially interested in Zub getting to do a run there.
>>81390930
I don't know if id call him the best. Maybe. BUT....he probably has the most consistent string of good writers on his books.
Even Waids run which I didn't actually like I wouldn't call bad running at all. Just didn't think it worked for deadpool. But its fucking Mark Waid so...still a pretty damn good writer.
>>81391867
thanks!
>>81391995
who are some of the characters/titles you'd maybe call the best?
I think Puny has probably more good stuff just in terms of numbers, but they're both up there either way
>>81391975
Honestly i probably wouldn't bother with pre miller DD unless you want some silver age swashbuckling hijinks from a not quite spider-man. Miller is when he really became the hardboiled gritty film-noir styled daredevil we know.
That being said if you wanna kinda read pre miller dd stories there are two books that are fucking AMAZING in my opinion for things earlier in deadpools career.
The first one id read is Man without fear by frank miller with art by i think john romita jr. Its millers retelling of the DD origin and his meeting with elektra. And its fucking awesome.
ALSO daredevil yellow by jeph loeb and tim sale. It is the daredevil in his old school yellow suit near the first years of his career. That being said...i would probably read Kevin smiths 6 issue run on daredevil 'guardian devil' before you read 'daredevil yellow'. Only because DD yellow is in response some serious shit happening in his life. and if you don't want that spoiled read guardian devil first.
>>81391018
fuck that book. Niceiza is ass.
>>81391322
>Karlo can't mimic a heartbeat without it sounding like mud
>Matt can spot him while disguised
>can't do shit to him head on
>has to outsmart him some how
This sounds like it would be a lot of fun. How do you think Batman would do against Stilt-Man?
>>81390930
Spider-Man also has lots of good creative teams. From Lee/Ditko in the 60's to JMS/JRJR in the mid 2000's I feel like the only weak point is the mid 90's when it get's crossover heavy and plot lines run through multiple titles
>>81392029
Honestly theres only two characters i think are on the same level if not edging DD out. Again i can't make a judgement but theyre all right up there in the top spot for me.
One is spider-man. Who honestly has just had so many amazing memorable stories. His rogues gallery, the events in his life when i think of 'good stories i remember from my youth' the majority of them might be spider-man.
Besides him maybe The incredible Hulk.
As much as i love DD or spider-man i'm not sure any character has grown and been personified like the hulk was under peter david for those years.
>>81392367
hey thanks for the detailed response!
>>81392252
H'ed use the Bat Vertigo-Inducer
>>81390930
Daredevil has had ridiculous luck with the quality of his individual runs, yes.
He'd just famous enough to get up and coming writers but not so famous that the editor often feels need to stick their dicks in the batter while the writer's making cake.
I don't think he's "the best" because that's a subjective matter.
>>81392703
He's also not popular enough where he is guaranteed to sell issues. So a writer has to put out quality work to get noticed.
>>81392875
>>81392703
batman seems like an anomaly then, since he's quite obviously DC's most popular/best selling character (I'm pulling that out of my ass, but we all know at worst he's a close second) and I'd say he still has the best stuff.
>Is Daredevil Marvel's best character?
Yes. Miller, Bendis, Brubaker and Waid make him the Marvel character with the best stories overall.
I'd give second place to Thor (Lee/Kirby, Simonson, Aaron and Gillen's JiM).
>>81391106
>which heroes have the best overall story quality historically?
That's a very good question. Alan Moore's run on Swamp Thing is one of the greatest things ever to come out of western cape comics, but that was *one run* 30 years ago.
Batman probably takes this. He has so many top quality stories it's not even funny. I can list more 'classic Batman stories' than I can list 'classic Marvel stories', I think.
>>81392953
Bats may have a consistent book being put out, but he normally has like 5 being put out simultaneously. So while 1 book his good, he has 4 mediocre to bad ones. DD's ratio is way more solid than that.
>>81393083
i've always thought Batman was easily the greatest hero between the two companies, especially in terms of stories, but I feel like Marvel probably has better characters overall.
Like if I tried to make a top 10 characters based on quality of stories Batman is #1 but I'd say most of the top 10 would be Marvel characters.... I'm not counting Vertigo.
>>81393204
>I'm not counting Vertigo.
Why not tho? Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Doom Patrol, Shade etc should count. Though those are characters that had ONE legendary run that everyone still talks about decades later and a lot of mostly failed attempts to replicate their success, so I'm not sure they'd make it into my list anyway.
I'll admit to not being a big DC reader, I can't really think of any other characters with a long legacy of top notch stories like Batman and Daredevil. Maybe Superman? Man of Steel, All-Star Superman, Red Son...?
>>81393867
idk I just didn't include them because I wanted to compare the two companies solely through their "mainstream" titles.
If I include Vertigo it's almost not fair, Marvel has no chance.
>>81393204
>based on quality of stories Batman is #1
I'd say the Flash is up there too
>>81390930
I've heard it said that Thor's Marvel's most consistently quality character (before Original Sin happened), and am inclined to agree.
>>81390930
The Silver Surfer is probably up there for Marvel, but his stories started declining around the mid '90s. He's still had some really good one-shots in the meantime, like In Thy Name and Requiem, though he's been in a bad spot for the past decade and Slott's run isn't helping.
On the DC end of things, I don't think the Spectre has ever had a bad run -- including things that weren't even technically runs, like the Adventure Comics feature from the '70s, Gotham by Midnight, or even his Golden Age material.
