These scores existing for these films on the same rating scale means that system is broken.
From a purely objective, technical standpoint these scores should not be possible
water is wet
>>81338626
It has nothing to do with the system dipshit. Critics liked DKR.
Though I do agree DKR is a 5/10 max.
>>81338626
One is a good movie, the other is not.
Why is that so hard to understand?
I was always curious about those scores, if less than 300 people review/vote it out of the millions that watched it, why does that score has so much weight?, or any movie for that matter
>>81338684
The critics are the system. And the same critics provided the scores for both films.
These scores prove that there is motivation beyond technical merit and objectivity in film criticism.
>>81338691
Because your first statement is incorrect.
Oh boy it's another "DC fanboys are butthurt because one of their movies flopped" thread.
DKR is a way better movie than BvS even if it is the weakest of the trilogy
Also yet another person who doesn't know how Rotten Tomatoes works
>>81338718
No it doesn't.
>>81338749
>Also yet another person who doesn't know how Rotten Tomatoes works
Everyone knows how it works. Stop with this.
>>81338626
Well, what can I say? I remember the Dark Knight rises was my post hyped film of 2012. I saw it in Imax. BvS has a hype as fuck premise, but before it even came out I had my doubts since I really don't like any of Snyder's movies. Personally, I don't think my hype caused me to overrated TDKR very much; I left the theater feeling thoroughly disappointed with it. Possible there were others whose preconceptions colored their reception of the film.
Unlike some of the BvS fanboys here, I'm not going to attempt to psychoanalyze every critic in the world in one fell swoop. I can only say that I agree, TDKR should have a much lower rating. I think it's entirely conceivable that someone could legitimately like it more than BvS though.
>>81338718
>These scores prove that there is motivation beyond technical merit and objectivity in film criticism.
Is that why Transformers keeps getting shitty reviews but high box offices?
>>81338771
Do they? Because from what I've seen over the past week, it looks like people are looking at the percentage and thinking "Oh well RT, the website, thinks that BvS is a 30% movie" which is wrong on multiple levels
>>81338626
The biggest problem is that critics will watch movies with genres that they like. It should be similar to game reviews where you have to review genres that you like. You wouldn't force a person who likes strategy or RPG games to play an FPS or racing game, would you? Unless of course they also enjoy those genres. Why should the opinion of someone who hates "serious" movies be taken with the same weight as someone who like them?
>>81338762
TDKR_action_choreography.webm
BvS is objectively better on a technical level.
>>81338804
The OP in no way implied anything about the Rotten Tomato scores other than TDKR had a significantly higher score than BvS
you read what wasn't there so you can be the guy to teach us all how RT really works. There's one in every thread.
And it says right on the score what the average score is for each film. And...OH MY....a higher RT percentage also indicates a higher average score. Go figure
>>81338626
No, you moron.
One movie was an artistic masterpiece in the eyes of many critics with the greatest
villain performance and best composition in the history of comics adaptions from the big two. And the other is a tone-deaf slug fest full of complete headscratchers and incredible lack of self-awareness as it builds a mountain of hypocrisy while the look of it drowns in a grit that would make 300 blush.
>>81338878
>greatest villain performance
nah
take a lap
>>81338821
Too bad choreography isn't the only thing on a critic's checklist.
>>81338878
DKR was only decent. Hardy did good but the rest was eh
>>81338912
Sorry, I misread. I thought it was Dark Knight and got pissed.
>>81338626
>I have no idea how Rotten Tomatoes scores even work
>>81338626
Films are not judged on technical merits, or at least that is not the only criteria.
That you don't understand this is not a failure of the system but your own failure.
>>81338626
>on a 0-100 scale scores 87% and 29% should not be possible
>reason: ??????????
>>81338699
Learn how statistics work.
>>81338821
>BvS is objectively better on a technical level.
Uhh...
>What is editing?
>What is an establishing shot?
>What is being able to actually make out the action scenes?
>It's another "MUH CRITIC RESPONSE" thread
Holy shit dude let it go
Your ass shouldn't be possible.
>>81338821
More CGI != better on a technical level. You can't say BvS is better when talking about cinematography, sound design, etc. I guess you think the Bayformers trilogy are the best made movies of all time.
>>81338626
While I think TDKR should be about 10 points lower and more like a 7 out of 10, that seems about accurate to me.
Also, you know critics love Nolan much more than Snyder right? Like Snyder is pretty much Bay tier
>>81339076
Nolan's action sequences are far more difficult to comprehend than Snyder's though
>>81339076
>>What is editing?
Not an issue in this movie.
>>What is an establishing shot?
Not a requurement of film.
>>What is being able to actually make out the action scenes?
????
>>81339132
>Nolan's action sequences are far more difficult to comprehend than Snyder's though
Apparently you fell asleep while watching the Doomsday fight.
The fact that these two scores exist on DC movies just goes to show that critics aren't marveldrones
>>81339118
>You can't say BvS is better when talking about cinematography
It is though. Much better. Nolan is a workman director.
>>81339170
There was nothing hard to understand about that fight. The only poorly shot sequence was the batmobile car chase.
>>81339152
>how do movies work?
>>81339152
>editing wasn't an issue
nice justice league advertisement right in the middle of the movie
>>81339173
This movie was just ok. Get over it already
>>81339152
Do you legitimately believe this?
>>81339173
Oops sorry misread
>>81339201
>There was nothing hard to understand about that fight.
Hi Snyder!
>>81338626
No it isn't, it's just a sign that you don't understand the system
An 87% isn't an 8.7 rating you retard
As a marvel fan, I appreciate all the dc fans who are willingly destroying their own cinematic universe in order to 'stand ground' in this company war.
>>81338821
I think TDKR had more color.
>>81339249
Yes. BvS is a great film. Not perfect, but very high quality.
>>81339254
Good shitpost.
>>81339075
Not really statistics when your sample set is defined with maximum bias in mind (for the nature of critical authority is inherently bias from a statistical perspective; the discrepancies between critic ratings and audience scores are proof of this).
It's not really a mathematical matter.
>>81339294
>Good shitpost.
Thanks! :)
>>81339254
What are the odds that these random name generators will legitimately turn up a Zack Snyder or Jeph Loeb Brian Bendis or something shitpost-worthy before it's turned off? I hope if it happens someone screencaps it.
>>81339288
As a fellow Marvel drone, I too am happy that we are still the better movies to watch.
However, it does sadden me to know that we will never have a Superman who can punch people in their feels or DC movies that are good enough to push Marvel to feel like they need to make even better ones.
At the movement, DC is just trying to play catch up with Marvel and doing a slop job.
>>81338626
Zack go away
>>81339201
>Nolan is a workman director.
TDKR is very competently shot, unlike some of Snyder's fight scenes or in-your-face symbolism.
>>81339294
>Yes. BvS is a great film
On par with the first Thor at best.
>>81338626
Damn right. Rises should be higher.
>>81339288
As someone who leans toward neither and is a complete sheep who watches anything popular, everything about this situation is making me laugh my ass off but is sad because I thought one day we'd get something equivalent to the DCAU on screen but it's become clear WB doesn't know what they're doing and fans of Snyder will just eat his shit with no problems
>>81338718
>These scores prove that there is motivation beyond technical merit and objectivity in film criticism.
A film review is an opinion and thus is subjective by definition. Critics give score to an art object. It's a not a test, critics are not establishing the degree of functionality of a product.
A movie can be well-made, if critics don't like the story, the characters or the point of the movie, they will give it a bad score.
>>81338626
The movie sucked, get over it you faggot.
>>81339421
>TDKR is very competently shot
Minus any action scene.
>>81338691
TKDR is very much not a good movie.
>dcucks believe that Snyder is a better director than Nolan
Sucker Punch really was better than Memento
>>81339294
>Yes. BvS is a great film.
I didn't realize Zach Snyder posted on /co/.
>>81339357
Hey fuck you I liked Paul Blart Mall Cop.
>>81339510
Snyder is a much better match for capeshit.
>>81338626
>Hating on the movie that brought us Baneposting
>>81339566
Because he doesn't understand the characters on a fundamental level?
>muh murderous Batman
>muh mopey and burdened Superman
>>81339076
The last one about action scenes, are you serious?
Honest i want to know cuz i thought that the action was top notch and easy to tell whats going on. When people ask if its good i say its worth 10 bucks on spectacle alone
TDKR is a good ending to the trilogy of movies, and a bad representation of Batman.
BvS is a bad movie AND a bad representation of the characters.
>>81339266
show me precisely where I implied that.
>>81338626
>From a purely objective, technical standpoint
Do you have any fucking clue how art analysis and criticism works?
>>81338626
You have no idea how RT works, right?
Imagine two movies have 10 reviews each.
Movie A gets 8 reviews giving it a 6/10 and 2 giving it a 0/10, the RT score will be 80%, not 48%
Movie B gets 2 reviews giving it a 6/10 and 8 giving it a 5/10, the RT score will be 20%, not 52%
>>81339600
>not muh
into the trash
>>81339672
>Another moron trying to teach us all how RT works
Thanks friendo :^)
>>81339616
>The last one about action scenes, are you serious?
The batmobile scene and the Doomsday fight. Especially the latter, with the energy bolts flying everywhere, wonky explosions and weird red filter over the whole screen.
>>81339672
Except the actual review scores are list there too, dipshit.
>>81339566
God, you really are this willing to just slurp up Snyder's piss jars like it ain't no thing aren't you? You can't even possibly imagine the idea of Snyder maybe not being a right fit for the job. Even Michale Bay fans wouldn't agree that he is right for Transformers but you just have to hold on to this single hope you have, even putting down actually competent directors, because you put everything on this train and need to ride it on through don't you?
A little DKR reference here, an adoption of Death of Supes there with a pinch of memorable poses and Justice League "foreshadowing" and oh yeah, Snyder GETS the characters
>>81339670
>Do you have any fucking clue how art analysis and criticism works?
Apparently not.
>>81338731
>flopped
>>81339727
They both got rather good scores then, what's the problem?
>>81339731
dumb pissposter
>>81339505
>Minus any action scene.
They're okay, nothing spectacular but nothing too confusing either, better than shoving as much CGI shit on the screen as possible.
>>81339776
>5/10
>rather good
>>81339794
>too confusing either
They're not confusing. They're just filmed in such a way as to downplay how awful the fight choreography is.
>>81339672
So how does it work without examples plz
>>81339857
sounds like it's competently shot then and your real gripe is the choreography
>>81339806
how was BvS not a 5/10?
>DKR is an 8/10
>BvS is a 5/10
Seems pretty fair to me.
>>81339722
But you always knew what was going on right?
>>81338626
These scores are accurate. Get your head out of your ass.
>>81339940
I was saying 5/10 is not a good score, not that it's the wrong score to give BvS
>>81338626
I don't understand what you want. Do you want to force critics to agree with the audience opinion?
>>81338684
Audiences loved it more apparently. Except for nerds.
It can't be the movie's fault can it?
"The reviewers were paid off!", "The public was brainwashed by Disney", "There's an agenda against Snyder", "The subtleties were lost", "It's for comic fans, not casuals", "They just don't understand! It's 2DEEP4U"
"I didn't like TDKR but all these people did so there's a SECRET AGENDA GOING ON HERE"? Really, that was seriously the best you could come up with? All these excuses, all these blaming on someone else because just the idea that the movie could just not be a well-liked movie on its own can't even begin to enter your minds.
I'll let Batman sum it up (except replace "thug" with "hack")
>>81340074
1. The critics were obviously paid off by Disney
2. There is an agenda against Snyder
3. Have you seen the questions about BvS? People don't even know what people are blaming Superman for after the whole africa incident. The subtleties were lost on casuals.
4. Casuals think Batman has never killed before
>>81338718
Really?
Power fantasy loving nerds hate a good movie where Batman is portrayed as a vulnerable human being and defend a bad movie where he is so tough that he beats up Superman.
I see...
OBJECTIVE! LOGICAL!
>>81340174
let's not get too carried away, TDKR was still a huge disappointment compared to the first two.
>>81338626
>we're going to have to deal with 3 more years of deluded fanboys shitposting about how BvS is some fucking masterpiece
Christ, it's Man of Steel all over again.
>>81338626
thats a big score
>>81339294
People have opinions on subjective matters, anon. It's perfectly fine that you think BvS is great and also perfectly fine that critics disagreed. Your opinion is valid, as is theirs. Grow the fuck up and learn to accept that your opinions are not "right" and enjoy what you like. Seriously, the desperate craving for validation is what has ruined this board IMO.
>>81340564
87% you!
>>81340146
>agenda against Snyder
I agree. I think everyone who has seen any of his other films has an agenda against him. I mean, fuck, they can't just leave the poor man to make dogshit movies in peace.
>reviews
>critics
the response to the movie is also a part of the movie
>the story is one of hope and triumph through doubt and cynicism
>the cynicism towards the movie, which acknowledges it's own cynicism towards the ideal hope but also the audience cynicism towards the ideal of hope is an external representation of the same cynicism the heroes strive to defeat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RATp3uig49E
HYPERCRISIS
>>81339510
DKR was the weakest Nolan movie I've seen and was below his average. I feel like Ledger died, forcing him to scramble for a new plot. Nolan's never been one for good fight chorography, which is important for any action movie, and which Snyder excels at. Dark Knight was great, in spite of this deficiency, due to the acting and writing, which DKR didn't really have.
>>81338626
TDKR was before everyone wanted cape films to be comedies.
And people now hate the Nolan trilogy because it was dark ad gritty.
Batman vs Superman movie wasn't really a Batman movie. It was heavily focused on Superman. I believe that Ben Affleck was a amazing batman but the script was just terrible.
>>81339857
Too bad Snyder can't film his movie in such a way that downplay his shit movies.
>>81338626
>From a purely objective, technical standpoint these scores should not be possible
One person got a B+, another got an F-
I think overall tdkr is a better movie -though obviously the worst of the trilogy, but bvs had more memorable moments.
>>81341252
>And people now hate the Nolan trilogy
You can keep spouting this dank meme it's not going to be true
>>81341325
>Batman vs Superman movie wasn't really a Batman movie. It was heavily focused on Superman.
Actually I'd say the opposite. It wasn't really a Superman movie, like it should have been, it was focused a lot on Batman as much as Superman because it had to bring him into the fold and be the lynchpin for the universe since Superman wasn't it
>>81339769
A movie as big as BvS should be able to make well over 1.5 billion in the upcoming weeks.
We'll see what happens this weekend to its sales.
The critical reception is memorably bad and you know it.
>>81341527
>if the movie doesn't make this number I arbitrarily set as standard, it's a failure
>>81340146
>Have you seen the questions about BvS? People don't even know what people are blaming Superman for after the whole africa incident. The subtleties were lost on casuals.
The Kentucky Senator makes a point of holding Superman responsible for the ensuing violence in the region after Superman's rescue of Lois Lane.
Clarity is an important aspect of telling a story. BvS has numerous events and discoveries that occur off-screen and are only mentioned in passing.
If most people cannot follow along with the story, can they really be blamed for not liking the film? At what point does the burden of responsibility not shift to the film makers?
>>81341734
1.5 billion is Avengers level which I'm assuming he's getting at but I think realistically, they have literally stated that 1 billion was what they were aiming for.
Batman and Superman should not be a "maybe" to get a billion, it should be a given it will get that high like a Transformers movie and that's the issue
>>81340971
>>the story is one of hope and triumph through doubt and cynicism
Superman makes a suicide attack on Doomsday to save Lois, the only person other than his mother he seems to care about.
>>the cynicism towards the movie, which acknowledges it's own cynicism towards the ideal hope but also the audience cynicism towards the ideal of hope is an external representation of the same cynicism the heroes strive to defeat
Reading this is making me go cross-eyed.
>>81341734
Arbitrary? It's the new paradigm for Hollywood.
If the Dark Knight and Avengers can clear a billion, BvS should be able to.
Batman is a powerful franchise.
>>81342012
>sales equal quality
>the market can accommodate the same amount of sales years apart
>>81342167
>sales equal quality
That seems to be the argument when it comes to BvS at least.
"it doesn't matter what anybody thinks, it is making money" how many times have I heard that this past week
>>81342243
Oh don't get me wrong, for me it was average at best. I just thought
>it has to make over 1.5 bil to be good
was a bit baseless.
>>81342167
>>81342243
>>81342266
How its sequel is being handled will almost certainly be affected by its box office success.
>>81342266
It's not really that baseless to think Batman and Superman should logically, by name alone, be able to make Avengers money
I mean, in a logical sense. Not in a "Snyder directed this" sense
>if I don't agree with the critical reception of these films, then the system is objectively broken!
shut the fuck up nerd
>>81342167
Man you DC fans have to decide.
>Critics hate it, their opinion doesn't matter
>It's not making as much as it should, money doesn't matter
>The masses hate it, they don't matter
What is the metric we should use to measure here? Your feels?
>>81341734
The guys who fronted the bill outright said if it doesn't get at least 1 billion, its a failure.
They have the biggest say.
>>81342660
the number of memes it generates
>>81342660
>everyone who disagrees with me is a hivemind
so since the guys at the desert were mostly killed with guns -except the one who went through the wall after pointing a gun at lois- why is superman blamed?
>>81343232
Because Benghazi reference.
Critics are out of touch and have been for a long time that why most of this shit is done on websites and youtube. It's all click bait pls subscribe shit.
>>81338718
>objectivity in film criticism.
It's funny and ridiculous how people on 4chan throw around the world "objectivity".
There is no such a thing, even less on movie criticism. They say it in your face on the fucking college.
>>81340146
>Casuals think Batman has never killed before
shut the fuck up, he hasn't killed since the first couple years of his existence
>>81343347
>people on 4chan
hey don't generalize Snyderfags as representatives of the site
>>81343293
I don't get what that means.
>>81343347
That depends on how you define objectivity. Objective doesn't mean all knowing and all encompassing. It can just mean not conciously involving a preference in the process of deducing a conclusion from data. Obviously the data can be faulty but that's not the same as not being objective.
>>81343477
Big congressional witch hunt against former Sec of State Clinton over the Anerican embassy in Libya being destroyed.
>>81343477
well I guess if critics prefer good movies then they wouldn't be objectively reviewing BvS
>>81343558
Okay. So just to make a reference to a real life event, they ignored the fact that the in movie victims were killed by bullets, so it couldn't have been superman?
>>81339598
this.
I think it kinda sucks but I love it for it.
>>81338626
The Dark Knight Rises was 1000 times better than Batman v. Superman.
>>81343769
>winter solider better than spider-man 1
Fine other than that
>>81344028
aside from Willem Dafoe, yeah it is
>>81338626
87% is too high but it was still a fuckton better than BVS
>>81342012
Batman was powerful with Nolan, now i don't what it is, i would like to see a Batman solo movie now and how it's received
>>81338821
Too back being good on a technical level doesnt make a good film
>>81339132
Did you even watch the Doomsday fight?
>>81343591
Hey I thought it was fucking dumb too, just explaining Benghazi
>>81343591
Really though, what's stopping Superman from murdering someone with a gun? It's not outside his capability and he knows everyone would be thinking "why would a guy with eye lasers who can bench press the moon bother using a gun?" It would be the perfect crime.
>>81343591
No in is saying that supes shot up the soldiers, the problem is that when Superman came down to the village in that way, it triggered a mass panic that kicked off a lot of people dying
>>81339266
Even if you factored the average reviews, TDKR scored a 8/10 (better some Best Picture winners).
>>81338626
OP is right an average rating of 4.3/5 does not equal 90%
Likewise an average rating of 3.8/5 does not equal 71%
Is it an American Website? Only through common core levels of retardation could you get these numbers.
>>81345344
>shitting on common core
>>81344028
YOU'RE THE ONE WHO'S OUT, GOBBY
OUT OF YOUR MIND
>>81345344
71% means that percentage of the voters gave at least 3.5 stars, the average rating is then influenced by also the more negative votes
>>81338626
OH GOD i love this!
So all last week people are wailing and mewling about how the critics are all obviously biased in the favor of lighthearted MCU fare and its why even shitty mcu films get way higher scores than batman v superman.
And all last week people are going 'but what about the dark knight trilogy that got good scores and it was dark and moody to.'
So now...oh well time to pretend that argument didn't happen. No guys it isn't bias for MCU films its a broken system where people don't accept dark knight rises isn't as good as it is compared to BvS.
It's so fucking desperate.
>>81345604
That doesn't make sense. If 71% gave it 3.5 stars, then the average rating was influenced by more negative reviews how could the average score be 3.8?
>>81345777
I'm kinda sleepy, wrong choice of words there on my part
So, the site considers every 3.5 or higher as "I liked it", making the % grow
The average rating then represents just that, the average rating, counting both negatives and positives. I guess that 3.8 means that the positive votes tend to be kinda high
>>81346114
Ah, okay that makes sense, I was working from the idea of using the mean to get the Average Score.
>>81338626
I have no idea what you mean. the system works fine, you just have to make your own mind up. critics shouldn't dictate whether you like a movie or not, they usually serve the purpose of helping people who are unsure if they want to see it or not. the idea of them being the arbiter's of a movie's quality has been over dramatized. you have your own mind, you know. that's why there's such a huge difference in the critic rating and audience rating for BvS.
>>81338684
I'd say a 7.5 out of 10 at best and a 4/10 at worst.
>>81339076
The Dark Knight Rises is absolute fucking trash.
People talk about "not muh Batman" for Batman v Superman, but no one fucking mentions it for that fucking piece of shit Dark Knight Rises. Nothing in The Dark Knight Rises makes any fucking sense, and is about as untrue to Batman's character as one can get.
At least it's clear in Batman v Superman that Batman has zero fucks left to give until the end of the film. But Batman is Dark Knight Rises is just... what?!
Also, I am saying with while also saying the The Dark Knight is (in my opinion) the best comic book film, and I really like Batman Begins too.
>>81347342
wow you brought up a lot of good examples. I didn't think about it until you mentioned all those ways they were untrue to batman in dark knight rises but now i see.
>>81339600
You understand that Ben Affleck's portrayal of Batman throughout 90% of the film is meant to be a Batman on the edge of has zero fucks left to give right?
Just notice the difference in what he says near the start when he's talking about "how many good guys are left?" compared to the end when he tells Diana "Men are still good".
It still amazes me how people don't fucking understand this.
>fuck Max Landis.
>>81338626
Not really, it's about as accurate it can get. If people like the movie it stays high, if people hate it the score goes down. Not much to analyze here.
>>81338626
Cry more, Snyderfag.
>>81338626
But TDKR was far better than BvS, it doesn't matter if you make a dark or light hearted movie, you must do a good movie first, and Snyder failed, talk about Marvel effect it's just denial
>>81338626
>Leo thinks BvS is anywhere near the quality of the Nolan trilogy
Come on Leo
>>81347752
Yeah rises had its problems but it was a far more competently made film than BvS overall.
When i saw rises i was like 'that was okay though it had some lame shit in it'. when I saw batman v superman I was just confused and sad.
confused because I didn't get why they chose to craft a story in this way (though now i understand its essentially one huge fucking justice league commercial), and sad because I now know i'll never get a modern take on superman that has an actual fucking superman in it.
>>81343419
>thinking the initial portrayal of a superhero matters more than their peak characterization
SUPERMAN SHOULD ONLY LEAP 1/8TH OF A MILE
>>81341224
I agree. It's longer than it needed to be and feels like it needed more editing. We see Batman / Bruce go through recovery from being crippled twice in the same story (at the start when he comes out of retirement and needs the powered leg braces and then later when he has to recover from the beating Bane gave him) which is a bit cumbersome. There's also some weird pacing issues (the story has a slow start but then starts rapidly rushing forward once Banes plot comes to fruition and Bruce recovers) and some shockingly bad acting (Talia's death) but it's still coherent and entertaining. It's like season 5 of The Wire, it might be the worst part of the series but that doesn't mean it's completely awful.
People hold up the Nolan Bat films as being more mature and cerebral than other comic films but he still takes the time to very carefully and clearly lay out character motivations, especially in Batman Begins which is the only Batman film that has Bruce explain directly to the audience in his own words why he chose a Bat as his symbol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzkBIYxRMEA
>>81347913
>and sad because I now know i'll never get a modern take on superman that has an actual fucking superman in it.
This right here, and it's not even just about how Supes was portraied, everything around him was fucked too
>His pal was turned into a completely new character and killed off just because "lol fans won't see that coming"
>Clark Kent was treated as a joke for a journalist and now that he "died" alongside Superman he'll probably never be back
>Lois still has no personality other than "she's so smart and always knows how to move the plot foward!"
>Still no Fortress of solitude
>Luthor was a joke
>The idea of Superman dying was wasted on his second appearance before he even has any friend other than Lois and Ma
So much for the respect of his "mythos"
>>81338626
>critics hate it
>people like it
>it's still making money
>>81348746
how much clark kent'ing do you think went on once the justice league was established? superman stayed pretty busy
