Who is best Magician(s) in DC and Marvel would you say? anything to do with magic
My personal pick
Dr Fate
Zatana
Constantine
Dr Strange
>>81289659
Doom
>>81289706
DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!
>>81289659
Fate, Zatana and Strange are literally deux ex machinas
Constantine is more grounded and Alan Moore's tulpa
>>81289659
Constantine is a crap magician.
>>81289961
But he's a lucky bastard so obviously someone out there is watching over him...probably laughing.
>Constantine
>no Mordru
There is no such thing as magic in the marvel universe
>Tim Hunter
>Mordu/princess amethyst
>Dr fate
>Zatanna
>>81290053
then what is it?
>>81289659
Strange, he's absolutely broken.
>>81289659
Kid Klarion bleak
Raven
Jynx
Enchantress both DC and Marvel
Wiccan (only his power)
There's another goth girl who literialy became god in the Lucifer (DC)series
>>81290034
Synchronicity
>>81289659
>Dr Strange
I like how Strange level up to Level 99 Dual Class Black Priest/Sorcerer Supreme just before Secret Wars, only that have his progress rolled back in his solo series.
>>81290074
weird abstract super science
>>81290082
No more broken than anyone at cosmic levels. It comes with being a lord of order
>>81289659
But yes Dr Fate is objectively the strongest magician of his and marvel's universe
>>81290102
>raven
She is pretty fucking weak sauce when it comes to magic. Her natural empath abilities are much more powerful than her sorcery
>>81290102
>Kid Klarion bleak
is he still insanely op or got nu52fied?
>>81290148
Magic and science are the same in the DCU too, you're splitting hairs
>>81290152
Classic Strange and Pre-crisis Fate are one the same tier and power level.
>>81290198
>Classic Strange
Classic Strange doesn't exist anymore. His "power level" varies from nothing to too much even between story arcs.
>>81290198
No. Fate's feats are on an entirely different level than Strange's not knocking strange but he is outclassed by Nabu
>>81290173
>Raven isn't a magical character
I never really got how that works. She's the daughter of an all powerful Demon lord and a her mother was a practicing witch but somehow her powers are not linked to magic.
Traci 13 seems to have potential.
>>81290370
Well she is a competent magician and she is probably more powerful than someone like Constantine or others. But the natural empath abilities she got from being part demon are much stronger. Trigon's off spring are all empaths specializing in different emotions and raven is very strong at using those abilities which far far exceed her abilities with pure sorcery
>>81290502
But wouldn't her empathy powers be rooted in magic?
>>81289659
Adam Warlock, I ship him with Quasar Wendell
Allan Scott(star heart)
Spectre
Tempest
Mera
>>81289659
Storm is best sorceress.
>>81289961
Fuck off read the comics, he has feats.
Stripped the demon blood out of his body, used it to make a clone of himself
regularly can portal himself to hell
expert summoner and exorcist
regularly can use command/coercion spells to get out of sticky situations
Expert in other realms, moves through dream time expertly where apparently non aboos are usually shit at it
>>81290186
Citation needed.
>>81292851
Captain Marvel (ie. Shazam) said they were two sides of the same coin during Multiversity. IIRC it was in Thunderworld Adventures (the one with Sivanaday).
>>81289659
Dr. Strangefate
>>81294302
>multiversity
You actually think that is canon? The entire series was showing off alternate earths. That is really grasping at straws
Wotan
>>81289659
With Marvel at least its usually safe to assume Strange or Doom.
DC its a bit harder to really pinpoint down since theres so many of em there.
>Fate
>Zatana
>Constantine
>Jason Blood and Etrigan
>Mordu
>Klarion the Witchboy
>Felix Faust
>Anton Arcane
>Enchantress
>>81290305
Fuck off, Strange could trounce Nabu.
>>81289706
>>81289814
>>81294981
Doom is a fucking PUNK.
Everyone talks about how horrible a villain he is, yet every damn one of his reads, at least the ones that I've seen or been suggested to see by /co/, depict him as more of a fucking antihero than an actual villain.
Joker -- Killed Jason Todd, paralyzed Barbara, killed Sarah, etc.
Magneto -- Ripped Wolverine's fucking skeleton out
Green Goblin -- Killed Gwen Stacy, all of the psychological damage to his own fucking son
Doom -- The nigga delivered Reed Richards' child.
His big "act of villainy" there was just NAMING THE GIRL. Sure, you can toss out the whole "oh well he was proving that he could do something that Richards couldn't, he could help his family when Richards could not", or the bs "Oh well he's a classy motherfucker dohoho/he's an honorable villain" crap out there, but when it comes down to it, Doom hasn't done SHIT.
That all being said, Doom crying at 9/11 wasn't any sort of break in character or anything to me. Hell, I would even go as far to say that it was entirely IN character.
>>81295826
Anon he simply could not. This isnt a matter of debate or anything nabu at his highest power is basically God and is practically invulnerable to anything other than chaos magic and in some cases not even that. Dr Strange is without a doubt one of the strongest human magicians but he simply can't compete against a Lord of Order.
SHAZAM!! especially in new 52
>>81289659
Spectre is the most powerful in DC, followed by Fate.
Strange is the best in marvel, except for possibly Dormannu.
Fate=Strange
Only other person who might take the crown in Dc is Trigun.
Does Mr Mxptfjfhfj (whatever his name is) from superman count, or Batmite count?
Houdini
>>81296347
>spectre
>magician
>trigun
>magician
>fate=strange
Jesus anon how can you be this wrong?
>>81296347
What about Michael demiurgos?
>>81296394
Read the thread
"Anything to do with magic"
>>81296496
Couldn't tell you, no idea who he is
>>81296574
He's the archangel Michael and he pretty much can manhandle the spectre.
>>81290370
Raven's powers are MUCH more extensive then she usually uses.
Given the shit she pulls off when she goes full evil, it's sort of implied that she can use her empathic abilities to do stuff she never normally does because it basically relies on her drawing heavily upon her evil side.
She more or less manages to psychically imprison and horrifically mentally torture the population of planet Earth using their foilables, failures, and fears with Trigon's help in one NTT issue, effectively turning Earth into hell.
>>81296597
Oh I heard about that, not to sure when it comes to him really. Never seemed like a fair fight to me since the spectre's weak to holy magics. It'd be kinda like claiming someones stronger than superman because he's using kryptonite.
Has he ever fought anyone like Fate or the wizard shazam?
>>81290517
Sure, you could say they're magically-based.
But they aren't sorcery, if that's what you mean, a practiced skill that you learn. She just naturally has them.
>>81296686
Well it's not really holy magic as it Michael just being greater than the Spectre.
>>81295904
Just because a pasta hasn't been used in a while doesn't mean it's not stale, anon.
>>81296697
Guy didn't ask who was the best sorcerer though,
Just who was the best "anything to do with magic" the first line of the thread kinda confuses the issue
Sorry for chiming in
>>81292851
>>81294302
He's looking at it the wrong way without an understanding of the words involved.
"Magic" literally means something inexplicable or unexplainable, something running counter to rational logic.
Sorcery is the casting of spells.
Since you can STUDY sorcery in the DCU (therefore it has a form of logic, albiet a weird one) that just makes it a skill like any other, just a very difficult one to learn which doesn't always work and doesn't always follow the same rules.
You also study science. It's just more reliable and less random then magic, easier to understand and grasp and apply on a wide scale; both involve using knowledge to change your reality in different ways. Sorcery is just a lot more direct about how you change reality.
You could say the same about sorcery in the MCU actually, since Doctor Strange studied to get his powers at another's feat.
>>81296797
That's a very....mid-19th century way of looking at magic I suppose.
>>81296826
Better than "it's all science."
>>81296737
Maybe he is, I don't know. Ive never read anything with him.
The problem being that being better than one character, no matter who they are doesn't make you the best in the universe if your powers are designed to totally counteract theirs.
What makes you the best is being stronger than everyone else with a similar power set.
So if you can prove he's stronger than the other magic users then he's definitely the best.
>>81296697
I just find it weird that NTT Raven has this distinction of being the daughter of demon and a witch and somehow staued away from the association of magic.
>>81296839
Technically, what I said DOES make it a science; a science is any form of knowledge you can learn and study.
If you can study sorcery, it's a science. A very very weird science that only follows it's own peculiar set of rules that only sorcerers understand, but it's a science.
I'd actually be okay with Cumberbatch insisting on that explaination in Doctor Strange.
>"So you're a magician?"
>"No. Magicians perform magic. Magic is illusions you can't explain. What I am is a SORCERER. Which is a perfectly rational field of study, assuming you can find a teacher and have the will for it. Just like being a doctor."
>>81297004
>If you can study sorcery, it's a science
There we go again.
>>81296946
Wolfman and Perez clearly had her entire character well planned out ahead of time and knew exactly what her powers were, and they're actually pretty consistent about it.
It's everyone else that gets it confused, which is a polite way of saying "wrong".
These four right here.
>>81297019
Literally true though. Go look it up.
That said, I DO like sorcery in comics and think it should be separate from math the way math is seperate from chemistry or engineering; yes you can apply math to those things, but you can't learn one and then expect to automatically know the others.
>>81297112
The OED says magic is
>the pretended art of influencing the course of events ... by processes supposed to owe their efficacy to their power of compelling the intervention of spiritual beings, or of bringing into operation some occult controlling principle of nature
So nope, no science here.
>>81297038
>well planned out ahead of time
Hmmm I dunno know about that.
>>81297198
>science
>the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the natural and physical world, or knowledge obtained about the world by watching it carefully and experimenting.
So sorcery is a science but science is not magic and magic is not science.
I guess we can just blame the inconsistency of comics themselves on that one.
>>81289659
Dr Strange
Doom
Loki
Magik
Enchantress
Baron Mordo
Agatha Harkness
Wanda Maximoff
Satanna
Damion Hellstorm
Brother Vodoo
Dr Druid
Billy Kaplan
Maybe the bloodstones
>>81297273
>magic is not science
Exactly.
