>On the March 25th episode of the Hollywood Babble-On podcast, hosts Kevin Smith and Ralph Garman reluctantly launched into a discussion about Dawn of Justice. Here’s how Garman introduced the movie:
>“Batman v Superman, of course, as you know, is the movie that finally answers the question, ‘What would happen if Batman and Superman were both f***ing a**holes.’ And it turns out, it makes for a pretty hard-to-watch film.”
>Smith tries to start positive, praising his friend Ben Affleck for his portrayal of Batman. And to be fair, that has been the only consistently positive thing that anyone has said about the movie. Other than the character’s inexplicably violent tendencies, Affleck is generally being accepted as the least silly Batman to ever appear on screen.
He even gave props to director Zack Snyder for the look of the film and the spectacle of some of the biggest scenes, but he also had some harsh words for the director in regards to his understanding of the heroes:
>“There seems to be a fundamental lack of understanding of what those characters are about. It’s almost like Zack Snyder didn’t read a bunch of comics, he read one comic once, and it was Dark Knight Returns, and his favorite part was the last part where Batman and Superman fight. But … you get to do that in that book because you’ve got three books prior to that and 50 years at that point of comic book history to build on.”
Not even fucking Kevin Smith liked BvS and he is the biggest Batman's cocksucker in the whole planet
>>81273089
>Not even fucking Kevin Smith liked BvS and he is the biggest Batman's cocksucker in the whole planet
He is the kind of guy that ALWAYS share the popular opinion, he also has NEVER called Stan lee on his bullshit.
Why does he wear the same fucking shirt everywhere.
Also yeah I agree with him. The movie was bad.
>>81273089
>“There seems to be a fundamental lack of understanding of what those characters are about. It’s almost like Zack Snyder didn’t read a bunch of comics, he read one comic once, and it was Dark Knight Returns, and his favorite part was the last part where Batman and Superman fight.
That sums is it up pretty well.
>>81273114
>He is the kind of guy that ALWAYS share the popular opinion
He still defends the star wars prequels. He generally will like pretty much anything, so him not really digging this movie, even though affleck is in it and its a batman movie, says a lot about it. I still haven't seen it but never really planned to until it came out on torrent.
>>81273089
Guess WB didn't want his shit. I recall him saying that this was going to be a $2 billion dollar movie. From what I heard he was working hard to direct a DC film. But the best his ass could land was directing an episode of The Flash. So long hack.
>>81273160
>I recall him saying that this was going to be a $2 billion dollar movie
Yeah, before the fucking movie came out and he watched it. The kevin smith hateboner is fucking obnoxious.
>>81273148
>Why does he wear the same fucking shirt everywhere.
Body dysmorphia. He really hates himself. He fucks his wife with his shirt on.
>>81273148
He's made himself into a brand. The shirt is his brand identity.
>>81273160
>From what I heard he was working hard to direct a DC film.
Where'd you hear that, on /co/?
>>81273160
>But the best his ass could land was directing an episode of The Flash
The Flash is better liked on /co/ than BvS. So good for him.
"Batman V Superman" has the same problem from "Man of Steel".
It's a collection of awesome individual moments that completely fall apart when placed together to form a narrative.
How is Superman is an asshole in this? He's an Asshole because he doesn't like a dangerous vigilante running around branding people?
But he did like it, he said so on Fatman.
Of course he wasn't impressed or anything, but he was way less harsh there than on Hollywood Babble-On
>>81273089
Yeah obviously Synder should've read the comic where Batman pisses himself or focused more on the topic of kryptonite condoms.
>>81273114
That's because Stan did nothing wrong.
>>81273259
Superman isn't an asshole, but he's a broody wimp and therefore a bland protagonist.
>>81273324
>where Batman pisses himself
The fact that there are actually people who got triggered by that will never not make me lose my shit with laughter.
when will we finally get a /capeshit/ board
>>81273324
Considering Lex kills thousands via jar of piss, I guess he really should.
>>81273089
2013
>MoS is accused of being humorless
>Kevin Smith likes the movie anyway
Current Year
>BvS is accused of being humorless
>Kevin Smith gripes about the lac of humor
>BvS had more jokes
How much money did Disney pay him?
>>81273160
Actually he's always said he wouldn't want to direct one of these movies. And it was the people in charge of the Flash who reached out to him to direct because they knew he liked the show so much. I will agree he is a hack though.
>>81273259
Y'know, the first thing we see Superman do is brutally kill an armed insurgent by tossing him through several walls.
He gets all mopey when everyone calls him out for intervening in some African hellhole, but gets shitty when Batman roughs up some drug runners and psychopaths.
>It's not an "S".
>On my planet, it means "hypocrisy".
He's a wishy-washy bully who's barely cognizant of his own actions and their consequences in this film, let alone what the Batman does or how absolutely shitty Gotham is.
>>81273426
>>81273390
>le jar of piss XD
>>81273324
>getting triggered over batman peeing himself the first time he went out
>defending lex giving someone a jar of his piss
Wew
>>81273259
>How is Superman is an asshole in this?
He has no motivation or goal in life other than to fly in and save people. Which sounds nice, but he really seems to not actually like people.
>He's an Asshole because he doesn't like a dangerous vigilante running around branding people?
He and Batman have basically the same style. Superman seems indifferent to fucking up a lot of things. He could at least offer to reset some of the foundations of the buildings he has cracked, rebuild Metropolis with his own hands. Instead he just flies off.
>>81273471
He didn't kill him at all. You could least pay attention to the movie you're criticizing.
What the fuck /co/? You listen to fat neckbeards now? Who the FUCK cares about his opinion, what about you guys go see it and make up your mind by yourself.
>>81273497
>not actually like people
You're projecting.
>>81273442
There are many more problems with this movie than the lack of humor and he does go into them on the podcast.
>>81273497
Yeah, nailed it. Superman is shown saving people, but he doesn't seem to like anybody but Lois and his mom, which is weird and kind of depressing. He seems so detached and disinterested, except for when he feels sad for himself.
The Superman in this movie is baffling to me. It's not even DARK EDGY Superman, it's...mopey asshole Superman.
>>81273492
>defending Batman pissing himself
At least we can write the jar of piss as a petty form of revenge coming a sociopathic narcissist. What's the excuse for Kevin smith retconning Batman Year one?
>>81273200
Didn't he lose weight though?
>>81273153
The Star Wars prequels aren't nearly as bad as most retards think they are. The dialogue, acting and actor direction typically ranges from bad to mediocre, and there is an egregious over-reliance on special effects, CGI or no, that has caused many of the visuals to age poorly.
But Lucas' biggest sin was vastly overestimating the intelligence of his audience. He tried to make them too layered and complex, and as a result most people who rail against those films have nothing to say about the technical shortcomings, and instead hate them because "not muh Star Wars."
>>81273153
>He still defends the star wars prequels
How? I watched them when I was younger without having seen the original trilogy and thought they were shit. Then I watched them again when I was older and had seen the original trilogy and thought they were even worse. How the fuck can anyone think those movies are good?
Wait, Kevin directed an episode of The Flash? Which one?
>>81273509
I can suspend my disbelief quite a bit, but there's no way that dude, a regular dude, survived getting hit that fucking hard.
>>81273595
>>defending Batman pissing himself
Bladder spasms happen to people who are rookies at firefighting. If anyone else had written that, you'd literally have no issue with it.
>>81273148
it's more like the same 4ish shirts, but they're all hockey shirts.
Honestly, I'd wear Hockey shirts and jorts all the time if I were fatter than I already am. They look comfy af. But with Kevin Smith in particular I think he could probably mix it up a bit, he is nowhere near as heavy as he used to be.
http://www.theguardian.com/film/2016/mar/30/kevin-smith-batman-v-superman-criticism
>“[I felt like] the movie … didn’t really have a heart,” opined Smith. “It was certainly fucking humourless, there was nothing funny going on in that world whatsoever.”
He lost me here, at the first quotation.
>>81273259
>How is Superman is an asshole in this?
Because he's basically Batman personality-wise.
Which is a bit redundant because there's a very similar character in the same movie. It makes the whole "Day vs Night' fall a bit flat.
>>81273613
My point being that the guy fucking loves anything, and him not enjoying batman and superman is saying a lot. And I don't think it was Disneys money.
>>81273637
Why not? For All we know Superman didn't actually hit him that hard.
>>81273089
>I should care what the author of the worst Batman comic book of all time thinks
>OP thinks KS knows anything about comics
I'd talk circles around that fat fuck.
>>81273442
It think Kevin didn't mind them fucking up Superman's characterization, but that it's Batman, he has a problem.
>>81273679
Why? It didn't.
>>81273648
Of course I would have a fucking issue with it, no matter who wrote it.
>>81273705
>Why not? For All we know Superman didn't actually hit him that hard.
The implication is that Superman used lethal force. The film has no aversion to violence, except when establishing Stryker's island the Metropolis docks are unpopulated.
>>81273725
I didn't think about it but that's probably true. The guy sucks the dick of every other superhero related property out there but i would imagine he holds Batman to a higher standard.
>>81273700
>Because he's basically Batman personality-wise.
and Batman is the Punisher.
>>81273700
>he's Batman personality wise
Motherfucker we SEE in the movie Batman's personality and it's nothing like Superman's.
>>81273725
Batman was fine, the Bat of Murder meme is retarded since that was in a dream sequence and the cars blowing up always happens. Its called disbelief.
>>81273725
>It think Kevin didn't mind them fucking up Superman's characterization
>>81273770
He talks about how awful his characterization was as well.
>>81273160
What flash episode?
>>81273807
But thats just wrong. KS acts like he knows comics but that fuck hasn't read a fraction of them. Batman was perfect personality wise. Its the Miller version.
>>81273705
He hit him hard enough to go through a freakin wall. That dude is at the very least in a wheelchair
>>81273648
>implying Batman is a rookie firefighter.
The idea that Batman wasn't prepared for those pyrotechnics is fucking dumb.
>>81273734
>wtf /a/. You told me this was good, but I didn't laugh once throughout this movie
Would make you sound like a fucking retard. Not everything needs to be funny. Including DKR, the comic BvS most heavily draws from.
>>81273843
Kek autist he had on armor, did you say the same thing when you read TDKR?
Oh wait I bet you don't read comics.
>>81273838
I was talking about supermans characterization.
>>81273843
He tackled him. The way I see it Superman was the one who broke the wall.
>>81273798
Even in his dreams, Batman doesn't use a gun.
>>81273871
You mean the guy who was willing to die to save his earth and struggled with himself the entire movie? Have you even read Secret Identity?
>>81273790
Because as >>81273784 mentioned, Batman is now the Punisher.
Again, personality-wise.
>>81273861
...Where exactly did I say anything even remotely close to that?
>>81273901
Kek what? What is a nightmare? You're a faggot reaching for straws.
Also Batman has used guns plenty of times nonlethally.
>>81273843
Tackled him through 2 walls actually, with Superman flying fast enough cause a sonic boom.
He's fucking dead.
>>81273906
He kinda drops that if the Lex prison thing is anything to go by. His arc was realizing that he was becoming a monster
It would have helped if superman had interacted with the people he saved. Or at least show him interacting with them with something other than disinterest
>shake the hands of the sailors
>Smiling with the astronauts he saved
>telling the little beaner he saved that everything was going to be okay
Instead he comes off as "I have to save people again? Awwwwwwwww"
>>81273705
He's "faster than a speeding bullet". He could've wrestled Lois out of the dude's arms before he even blinked, let alone pulled the trigger.
The fact that he even just grievously wounded the guy is a statement about the lack of restraint and a total disregard for life on Superman's part.
I realize the dude was some armed guerrilla insurgent. But, murdering or crippling an enemy combatant who was so outclassed is more Frank Castle than Clark Kent.
>>81273539
>You're projecting.
He cries more for Zod than other people.
>>81273089
>caring what Kevin Smith has to say
>>81273982
Shows how much you paid attention. He was smiling when he saved the little girl. He was in turmoil most of the movie over if his actions were worth it. Go read Peace.
>>81273981
Armor ain't gonna protect you from being flown through walls.
>>81273610
But we talk about the bad acting and crappy effects all the time.
>>81273982
The way the scenes were shot didn't help either. They weren't presented in a dynamic or heroic way. Other than using some obvious Christ and godlike imagery, I mean.
>>81274044
Its a fucking comic book you faggot.
>>81273907
Kevin Smith did.
>>81274020
>Shows how much you paid attention. He was smiling when he saved the little girl. He was in turmoil most of the movie over if his actions were worth it. Go read Peace.
if Superman does in fact smile, he does it for half a second in a scene that plays with a great sense of foreboding.
>>81273986
Did you not see how close that gun was to lois's head? It was straight on her temple AND the guy had his finger on the trigger.
>>81274076
>Its a fucking comic book you faggot.
It's a movie where people use lethal force.
Cry some more dude. Batman guns people down. Get over it.
>>81273943
And Lois would be dead in the original Superman movie because he was flying up at high speed while she was falling. The impact would have been greater than if she had just hit the ground.
But she didn't die.
The whole point of that scene was that Superman was set up as a murderer. And you all seriously think he really was a murderer in it?
>>81274171
>foreboding
It's called gravitas you double nigger.
>>81274171
>he does it for half a second in a scene that plays with a great sense of foreboding.
You're right. That scene where he's laughing and fucking his wife in the bathtub was foreboding as fuck.
>>81274171
>I wish the wall has higher
>>81274178
Melt the gun, or heat it up so he drops it.
Or you know, write it so the gun is a bit off of her temple and then he could catch the bullet.
Not like Synder was forced to to have the gun up to the film, he only did it to justify Superman having to tackle someone through a wall
>>81274178
Couldn't he use his heat vision to destroy the gun or cut off his finger?
>>81274206
No he doesnt and its a comic book in a movie format.
Go bitch about muh realism breh.
>>81274178
>giving this many excuses for why Superman used excessive force when handling a dude who wouldn't be a threat to Superman unless he was doped-up on Green or Gold K
He could've disarmed the dude with a stare. Or, again, outpaced the guy's trigger finger. He could've sneezed and sent the dude rocking back towards the wall.
>>81274336
And considering the whole point of that scene was "superman didn't kill the terrorists", it's silly to assume he killed this guy.
>>81273089
>mfw agreeing on something with Kevin Smith
I'm considering my stance on BvS, guys, maybe it was actually kinda pretty good... the best capeshit movie ever even!
>>81273442
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDsw86ATrQ0
>Says he likes the movie
>Paid off to hate on it
Do you see the problem there?
>>81274262
The way heat vision is portrayed in the movie isn't really a precise tool.
>not muh Batman
So the same as all the other criticisms of this movie.
>>81274260
How is heat vision less of an aggressive response than just tackling a guy?
>>81274395
It's silly to assume the terrorist isn't shitting in a diaper and paralyzed from the neck down after being slammed with enough force to cause a sonic boom.
http://strawpoll.me/7232450 Simple poll
>>81274442
Well Batman did kill a whole bunch of people BEFORE he had the same scene in The Dark Knight Returns and uses a gun to kill someone after telling them
>I believe you.
>>81274442
Even if the they got the characters right, it would still be a shitty movie.
>>81274541
Batman didnt kill once in the movie though except the dream. Thats a meme.
>>81274478
Having a burned hand isn't as band as having dozens of broken bones and severe internal injuries.
>>81274478
Superman is much more calm and in control of the situation. Plus it'd be nice seeing Superman feel like he's controlling his powers better
>>81274569
Yeah anon, all those cars that explodedwhile trying to save Martha totally got out of the fucking way.This isn't fucking G.I. Joe you fucking idiot. There are no fucking parachutes.
>>81274686
It is exactly GI Joe you faggot. If we are attributing every car Batman has ever blown up to a death then hes killed a lot of people.
People like you are so handicapped trying to place real world constraints on fiction.
>>81274569
>Batman didnt kill once in the movie though except the dream
He clearly run over those cars in the scene when he was trying to steal Lex´s kryptonite and he clearly machine gunned some guys with his Bat-jet in the Martha's rescue sequence and he shots that Russian's flamethrower making the whole building explode, thus killing all the goons he incapacitated with his martial arts inside said structure.
>>81274569
>Gunning people down with a machine gun attached to your armored car isn't murder
Sure, guy.
>>81274642
You mean like in MoS when he does surgery on Lois? I swear its like half of you just insult a movie without watching it.
>>81274569
I'm pretty that dude with the flamethrower didn't live through that explosion.
>saving people is not enough, you have to smile while you are being hated by one half of the population while being considered as some kind of god by the other
>>81274761
Thats KGBeast casual. He will be disfigured but hes alive.
>>81274733
So it's up to me to help give consistency to the writers and directors because it was so hard to write the story and show less lethal options that could have been used. No thanks, the movie is shit and you're shit for thinking that excuses the shit fucking writing and directing.
>>81274761
>I'm pretty that dude with the flamethrower didn't live through that explosion.
And the rest of the other guys with broken limbs trapped inside the building since the whole building exploded.
>>81274569
He t-boned a group of people in a car going 70mph in his batmobile that can destroy walls
Pretty sure those people died
>>81274840
Boy oh boy do you not read comics if you are not used to that.
>>81274882
I've read 90's comics where there were darker and edgier phases and most times comic artists don't have enough time or space to show that. A movie director making a movie with a million plus budget has no fucking excuses.
>>81274826
>it was all setup so KGBeast would get his cybernetic implants
Oh shit.
>>81274912
You know quoting yourself doesn't help your argument right? Especially without anything to substantiate it?
>>81273160
Kevin smith has said on numerous occasions the worst super hero movie is better than any super hero movie he could himself direct. The only one he worked on was superman in the late 90s when he wrote a draft of the screenplay which was thrown away when tim burton took over and brought in his own screenwriter. And that movie never came out.
The guy even defended man of steel so yeah if he gave this shit it isn't some personal bullshit. It is probably because he genuinely did not like the film or elements of the film.
>>81273089
Everyone's got an agenda they have to push in the media these days.
>>81274843
Nah, all those people lived and got treated by Doctor Mid-Nite and we're all retards who don't pay attention or can't adjust our suspension of disbelief.
Seriously, some of the posts in this thread remind me of the College Humor Batman parody with Patton Oswalt as the Penguin. The one where he's constantly killing people but Batman just says "No, they're just sleeping" or "I'm sending them to a farm."
>>81274951
Except it does when you are so dumb that you try to place real world constraints on a fucking piece of fiction about superheroes.
>>81273089
>Not even fucking Kevin Smith liked BvS and he is the biggest Batman's cocksucker in the whole planet
I honestly can understand that. I mean I'm not a huge Batman fan, but after a couple of days I realized one of the things bothering me about the movie was that Batman was a straight up villain in it. He spends 60% of his screen time planning to kill a man because he didn't do a good enough job of single-handedly stopping an alien invasion and for being too strong. Even when that man has no desire to kill him. Batman has a higher fucking body count in this movie than any other character.
>>81273114
What's his opinion on Bob Kane?
>>81275012
You're argument has no ground to stand on when they use real world constraints to fucking make their shitty plot work.
>genocide your own race to save earth and somehow be hated for it
>have to kill yourself to save earth again only because some autists can't handle that you are different
I don't know if he should even give a shit after he comes back.
>>81275063
No they don't. Nothing they used were "real world constraints" dumbass. They used societal norms based off real world reactions. They in no way constrained the movie to fit the standards of things occuring in the real world. Go back to school.
>>81273610
>The prequels were complex and layered
Holy shit. What, it's contrarian and edgy to like shit films now?
Explain the "layers" of The Phantom Menace.
>>81275004
>Don't worry Alfred, I ruffed him up but I didn't kill him
>But sir, you just punched him so hard to the ground that his neck broke and died
>Nu-uh! I have a no kill role, and I didn't MEAN for a punch that I threw to kill
>In the front page of the paper "At least 4 dead in latest Batman rampa-"
>NO KILLING NO KILLING LALLALA I GOTTA GO,
>Heh, yeah, I knocked the fuck outta that guy but I'm sure the police will be there to help him once he wakes up
>>81273861
DKR was funny as shit. It was a fucked up situation but it had a lot of dark humor to it.
>>81274479
And it's silly that in every action movie ever made being knocked unconscious doesn't result in a life-threatening concussion like it does in real life but nobody has a fucking cow about it.
>>81274758
Ill admit I forgot about that scene, but I still think Superman shouldn't crash people through concrete walls. He should have more control then that
>>81275110
>Kill one person
>genocide
this is as silly as /pol/ complaining about the "white genocide".
>>81275181
jar-jar is key
I wonder what's going to happen at DC when this film is received better and makes more money than Batman v Superman?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9ZoKKQsxis
>>81274569
he kills and thats the point, he is old and thinks his battles against crime have become pointless, specially now that there is an alien who could do more damage in a few hours than all the villians he has faced so far together. Killing superman would be his first mission that'll actually mean something.
>>81275244
He threw him through a fucking wall. There's suspension off disbelief and there just being retarded.
>>81275327
He didnt kill a single person.
>Explosions
Always happen and should be hand waved off cause comics
>Dream sequence
A nightmare
>Fighting Lexs thugs
Never shoots any of them except KGBeast flame pack and he will probably be back.
>>81275328
>threw him through a fucking wall
But he didn't. He was PUSHED through a wall. Not to mention Superman could have just stuck his hand out and broke the wall himself a split second before they went through.
You're goddamned autistic for dwelling on this.
>>81275280
>IF YOU DESTROY THIS SHIP, YOU'LL DESTROY KRYTON
>>81275327
I'd be fine with that if they had at scene explaining that instead of all the filler scenes advertising the next movie.
>>81275392
You do know that unless Superman had himself between the guy and the wall, he's still getting the full brunt of hitting a fucking wall right?
>>81275378
yes, you could say they all survived due to comic book logic but superman sure didn't care about colateral damage.
>>81275399
He destroyed a machine that makes babies. There are no living creatures in these pods.
>>81275328
Two walls. With, again, enough force to cause a sonic boom.
Sure, they state that Supes didn't kill anyone there. But come the fuck on. That guy was a splatter on the walls if Superman accelerated to the speed of sound that quickly.
>>81275059
He shits on Kane a lot, he's a huge Finger advocate.
>>81275399
>yfw Krypton was an allegory for the white race
>>81275473
Life beings at conception, faggot. Those babies were all already conceived and therefore alive.
>>81274479
Playing Snyder's advocate here, lots of silly things happen in comics and the media that adapts them.
>>81275436
Batman said that though, he said no matter how many criminals he'll defeat, there is always more and defeating superman would be the only thing he would have done that had any meaning or something along those lines.
>>81275445
And somehow people can break cinderblocks with nothing but their hands.
I don't think you know as much about the physics that "had" to work that way as you think you do.
>>81273153
No he doesn't, he changed his opinion on them as soon as the popular opinion changed.
>>81273610
toppest of keks
>>81275399
I thought man of steel was kinda lame and outright hated bvs particularly with supermans characterization. but yeah i loved that moment.
Its one of the few that gets flak i think unjustly and doesnt get the credit it deserves. Its superman saying unequivocally that he is earths adopted son. That he wont put some possible future for his own race before human beings. He doesnt think humans are small low things that can be stamped out so kryptonians can live again no. Krypton is gone...it had its chance. It's the inverse of when he tells pa kent that hes not his dad and the final affirmation of the scene where pa kent says 'you are my son'. It is Kal El taking his place not as a kryptonian on earth but as an earthling from krypton.
the movie and its sequel then proceed to completely pretend that never happened or was entirely in my fucking head.
>>81275399
Krypton was already destroyed. Krypton had it's chance but they blew it focusing on eugenics and an outdated caste system.
>>81275446
I meant batman, still kinda fits though.
>>81275530
>Those babies were all already conceived
What hte fucking shit? This is trolling, right? Zod didn't extract the codex from Superman you fucking retard. That was the whole point. The pods had NOTHING in them. Jesus Christ, did nobody seriously watch this movie? They just bitch about it?
>>81275530
For human babies. Aliens don't have souls.
>>81273160
Kevin Smith does not want to direct a superhero movie. He was offered Green Hornet and turned it down, and he and Ralph are big GH fans. He doesn't think he'd do it justice. Directing an episode of the Flash is a lot different than a 90-150 minute movie.
>>81275530
Every sperm is sacred.
>>81275000
how can this go unnoticed?
![12826028_1738755079678956_410771577_n[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/3E22SKd.jpg "12826028_1738755079678956_410771577_n[1].jpg")
>>81273089
Actually, he went to see it a second time with his lifelong buddy Jason Mewes and sort of modified his opinion.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BDlGEofRy15/
>"So to thank me for sneaking him into the @dccomics universe, Jay took me to see @batmanvsuperman again (my second time, his first). I liked the flick more on my second viewing (see 1 hour review on my #KevinSmith #youtube channel). I'd said the film didn't have any heart, but after the second viewing, I actually found the heart in #batmanvsuperman: it's in the viewer. And the viewer I watched the blockbuster with the second time was all agog, eyes as big as saucers. During the Knightmare sequence, we shared a moment that even elevated the flick for me: when the winged New Gods nasties attack #Batman and take him down, Jay (age 40) & I (age 45) simultaneously looked at one another and whispered reverently "ParaDemons." It was a beautiful moment shared by two lifelong fanboys who were delighted to see their childhood flash before their eyes."
>Jay & Silent Bob at the movies
>>81274569
I watched it twice.
Batman has at least 2 guaranteed kills (it's more considering the cars don't drive themselves or maybe they do)
Maybe the car he t-boned the villains lived. Even after having a grappling hook shot into it. Even after being dragged and tumbled around in a semi crushed car. I'll even let it slide that after he flung that car onto another car, the seat belts kept them safe. So let's say the people in those 2 cars just barely lived.
After doing that Bruce sees a man open up the back of his car and out pops a man with a minigun. This is where Batman then activated the Batmobiles machine guns. His tank is getting shot to no avail. Then Bruce fires back on this man who not only opened up his car but also is fully exposed and is no longer secured by life saving seat belts. The henchman's car gets shot up and lets say the bullets missed him. His car tumbles (keep in mind this man isn't wearing a seat belt) and tumbling into the Batmobile he goes. BOOOOOOM! Huge explosion. Maybe with a seat belt he could have lived but no way he's surviving this explosion without his seat belt.
Then another car crashed into a truck because the driver wasn't paying attention and cue another explosion. Those guys were wearing their seat belts so they probably lived but even then it was there own fault for not paying attention to the road. Also keep your eyes ahead of you while driving.
Let's skip to the part in the Batwing.
Bruce is now piloting the Batwing to save Martha. First he opens fire on some parked vehicles outside the warehouse who see the Batwing. Another car blowing up but guess what. The henchman outside weren't driving said vehicles; those cars were parked. Those guys didn't think to wear a seat belt so it's a sure thing to assume they died. Guess who aimed the gun at them and guess who pulled the trigger? Hint it was Bruce Wayne.
He definitely killed the Russian in the warehouse. The man who dove for the grenade won't count for Bats.
>>81275696
>His dumbass didnt even get the parademons or Darkseid references
Top fucking kek.
>>81275720
All of that is negligence or can be hand waved cause of comics. That grenade was a flash grenade.
>>81275696
First time I want to punch someone in the stomach before punching him in the face
>>81273160
>heard he was working hard to direct a DC film
Sure retard. If you actually knew a thing about Kevin Smith is that he himself says that he would do a shit job. He says this in his stand-up talk about Bryan Singer and Superman Returns.
>>81275559
Snyder has this weird thing, I think its mostly coincidence or rather he sucks at storyteling but somehow you can find in his movies a lot of little but crucial moments to the characters, his mad visual skills make those scenes seem even more meaningfull, so you either go along with it and try to find some meaning or you disregard it as incomplete or inconcistent storlyteling.
I've seen anons always praise a different scene of Snyders movies even if they didn't like the movie as a whole.
>>81275530
Found the pro-life fag.
>>81274569
KGBeast's is okay and that Manslaughter at beast.
>>81274244
>You're right. That scene where he's laughing and fucking his wife in the bathtub was foreboding as fuck.
In regards to Superman's empathy, that makes it look like he only likes Lois.
So you're agreeing he doesn't seem to like other people? Because that was the original point.
>>81274226
>It's called gravitas you double nigger.
It's ominous. The montage of Superman saving people comes off creepy. Not of his intentions, but of the inevitable outcome of his actions.
>>81276146
He literally saved Lex Luthor from being killed, without a second of thought, after he tried to kill his girlfriend and mother.
>>81276021
Yeah i hated BvS for the most part. but there are great moments. Even lex. That first scene with him is great. That line when he says 'you dont forge a silver bullet because you want to use it. but if you have it....you dont have to depend on the kindness of monsters'
Fucking great moment from one of the most hated elements of this movie. Delivered amazingly. It shows the kind of single minded desire luthor has to be greater than the thing that has more power than him. But also it kinda makes sense. Yeah you don't necessarily want to kill superman, but if you have something that can you don't have to just hope he doesn't go insane and kill everyone and crush batmans chest.
>>81276182
Don't forget the fact that Lex also successfully murdered hundreds.
>>81276231
>inb4 people start blaming Superman for their deaths because he didn't let Lex die.
>>81274305
>No he doesnt and its a comic book in a movie format.
>Go bitch about muh realism breh.
I? For real? You don't see how contrarian you appear here?
Batman and Superman commit at a minimum several acts of manslaughter.
Zack Snyder would be the first to say the films deals with the themes of power and force.
>>81275696
I agree with the sentiment, that I was when I saw the film, but two viewings to notice the Parademons?
>>81276264
No they don't cause they don't. You are making real world assumptions in a piece of fiction.
Thatd be like asking why the animals in Alice in Wonderland are talking.
>>81275607
>He doesn't think he'd do it justice.
He sure as hell couldn't make it any worse than what we got.
>>81276264
>Zack Snyder would be the first to say the films deals with the themes of power and force.
The movie was heading in that direction and the Bruce and Clark fight would have had so much weight if there was an ideology behind it, having Lex Luthor basically get impatient and cause the fight to happen prematurely didn't ruin the fight because it was awesome anyways but undercut it's impact.
>>81275736
Yeah and he is still more successful in life than you will ever be despite his stupidity. go fig huh?
>>81276442
Wow rude
>>81274994
>It is probably because he genuinely did not like the film or elements of the film.
That's impossible. Disney probably just payed him off.
>>81276182
>He literally saved Lex Luthor from being killed, without a second of thought, after he tried to kill his girlfriend and mother.
Again, Superman saves plenty of people in the movie.
He never seems to vocalize that he cares. It comes across as a chore.
>>81273148
>Why does he wear the same fucking shirt everywhere.
He loves the Oilers but got in trouble for wearing their jersey at his speaking events, so he modified it.
>>81276442
Except hes not. Hes not at all. Stop projecting, you don't know who post here.
>>81276527
>It comes across as a chore.
Well that's completely your interpretation. I think they sufficiently show that Superman does it because it's the right thing to do.
>>81275110
Masturbation isn't genocide.
What Supes did wasn't genocide.
>>81273861
You're telling me you didn't find it funny when guys would throw themselves on the floor while Batman and Anne Hathaway were spinning around three feet away from them?
>>81276527
>He never seems to vocalize that he cares. It comes across as a chore.
The narrative supports this. He comes off as a cold, inhuman force of nature that saves people who proceed to worship him (like that scene with the Mexicans).
He works at a newspaper and has been in a serious relationship with Lois for some time, and apparently he's never publicly come out and talked about himself and why he does what he does.
>>81276542
I'd say he is. His job is something he wants to do.
>>81276348
They establish that the animals can talk in Alice in Wonderland. They never establish that regular humans in the DCEU can survive getting blown up or tossed through walls. There's suspension of disbelief and then there's being a retard.
>>81276624
I love my job and my salary and its probably pretty comparable to his shitty little radioshow where he tricks the masses into thinking he actually knows what hes talking about.
>>81276569
Like when he's depressingly pulling the ship stuck in ice? Or when he's hovering above the people hit with a tsunami/natural disaster as if God is staring down on peasants?
>>81276663
I think they assume you'll place comic book constraints on their comic book movie.
>>81276348
>No they don't cause they don't.
A child's argument. I don't think you've seven seen the movie.
>You are making real world assumptions in a piece of fiction.
A piece of fiction the director of which has proselytized and defended the fatalities and violence thereof.
>Thatd be like asking why the animals in Alice in Wonderland are talking.
Superman and Batman kill people in the movie. To debate the merits of this is one thing. To deny the existence of is contrarian and absurd.
What will you do next? Deny the film exists at all? That the entire production was a massive hoax by government mind control?
>>81276569
>I think they sufficiently show that Superman does it because it's the right thing to do.
KILL THE HORSES CLARK.
>>81276666
What's your job and salary, m8?
>>81276705
Except they dont kill people cause of comics. You really arent getting this are you? Pretend you are reading a comic. Now pretend that when these things hapen you just ignore it.
Tahdah! Its a comic book movie with comic book logic!
>>81273089
Kevin's also done, what, a shit tier GN about a faggot named Onomatopoeia?
okay
>>81276694
You're right. Clearly it's objective. I'm just too blind to see facts!
>>81276745
Kek. I still don't get why people got upset by this.
>>81276862
Not just shit tier, most consider it the worst Batman comic of all time.
>>81276542
His young dream was to become a director. He did it on his own in the way he wanted. He directed the type of movies he wanted. He decided to bow out and started a podcast network and spends his days either occasionally directing only films he is interested in doing and hanging out with various friends recording internet radio shows where he yaks about whatever he feels like.
Guy has money, a family, a living doing what he enjoys in life instead of what he has to. Yeah if you ask me that sounds like success. Probably more than is ever going to be attained by someone who likes to cut another down just because they didn't entirely notice some thing in a movie.
>>81276788
>Except they dont kill people cause of comics. You really arent getting this are you? Pretend you are reading a comic. Now pretend that when these things happen you just ignore it.
>Tahdah! Its a comic book movie with comic book logic!
Your argument is asinine. Either the film stands by its merits as a work divorced from its origins, or it is reviewed as an adaptation of its source material.
There is no standard for reviewing the film as a live-action cartoon. It's tantamount to delusion. Should we all eat a pound of hallucinogenic mushrooms before viewing the movie?
>>81276926
>Kek. I still don't get why people got upset by this.
same here. I thought the movie was mostly utter shit but this was a nice moment and a good lesson. A good superman lesson i think idiots just meme over because they like repeating shit they see on the internet.
Its clarks dad telling him despite his power, despite him being a hero actions have consequences and you can not be universally loved, nor can you save everyone. That bad things can happen even if you try to do good but that doesn't mean stop doing good.
I think people are just crabby because pa kent in this universe isn't just a guy who belches out folksy good natured wisdom like a contrived good dad trope vending machine and instead acts like a real father who has his childs well being as a priority.
So who do we hate less, Kevin Smith or Zack Snyder?
I'm gonna have to say that I liked Dogma, and some of Smith's other films are kinda watchable, so he's automatically better than Zack "literally incapable of making a single movie worth watching" Snyder
>>81277076
Kevin smith because he made batman pee that one time, and he's fat and he triggers me.
>>81277004
Its neither. Think of it as an adaptation of comic books with a new twist. Think literally every movie or show based on a book. You apply the same logic from the book to the movie. Why is this so hard for you?
>>81277076
>So who do we hate less, Kevin Smith or Zack Snyder?
I don't hate either. I think Zack Snyders DC movies are pretty much shit for the most part with speckles of nice moments in there. But I don't hate him for it.
As for Kevin Smith he seems like a genuinely cool guy. Even though I don't often enjoy his films I got nothing against him. Particularly because I love Daredevil and he helped kickstart DD during the Marvel Knights run with Joe Quesada which i credit as helping save marvel from the abyss in the late 90s.
>>81277118
>Its neither. Think of it as an adaptation of comic books with a new twist. Think literally every movie or show based on a book. You apply the same logic from the book to the movie. Why is this so hard for you?
Because you have invented it. You are advocating willful ignorance.
A film is viewed as a film with the knowledge it is intended to be interpreted it as it is conveyed.
The film is conveyed especially as if it were meant to be taken at face value.
>>81276928
Yeah, I'm okay with not listening to his take on how he perceives how Batman and Supes ought to be.
On BvS, I generally liked it more than I should. I went in expecting absolute shit.
Aside from some really shitty scenes, Lex didn't bug me as much as the trailers made it seem, save some dumb stuttering moment in a speech and his pseudo-insane mumbling about bells at the end. Both were out of place.
Aquaman had the dumbest introduction. Cyborg was sweet.
Not sold on Wonder Woman's actress, but her story was interesting.
Bats was the star. Anyone that bitched about the "murders" are either people who have never seen the Burton flicks, or never touched an Arkham game. Or worse, have had exposes and just turned a blind eye to this. Batfleck is probably the best live action Bruce/Batman dynamic to date.
Superman was handled as well as they could. Growing from MoS they had to establish the idea that taking a life meant so much that he at least tries to preserve as much as he can.
Lois had some shit tier moments. The whole reasoning behind her suddenly going back for the spear was fucktarded.
"Martha" wasn't nearly as dumb as originally made out to be. All it did was show Bruce that there was more human in Clark than he previously thought, and it gave him a shot to save someone from losing their parent(s) so that hit close to home with him. Honestly they didn't even need to establish the same name, Superman could have just said mother and the conversation could have gone organically from there.
I hated the idea of Zod and Doomsday. After seeing it, I get it. Doomsday is an ancient being on Krypton and in here it's an ancient abomination of crossing Kryptonian and Human dna. Interesting idea, and in hindsight it makes sense that Zod as a vessel would be the perfect candidate for a relentless being that truly hates Superman.
Why was there a statue? It was 18mths since MoS. And most of the world was terrified of him.
>>81274818
>Superman should be grim and emotionless
>>81277315
>I don't hate either.
Get the fuck out
>>81277324
>a speech and his pseudo-insane mumbling about bells at the end. Both were out of place.
That was Darkseid is coming. More likely than not Desaad was manipulating Lex to kill Supes.
>>81273524
Kevin Smith is not some neckbeard! He is the neckbeard. And a beautiful creature. And his opinion is valid, he has pretty much dedicated his life to Batman/comic related things. There is nothing wrong with looking to his opinion and taking it inti consideration you fuck.
>>81277324
>Anyone that bitched about the "murders" are either people who have never seen the Burton flicks, or never touched an Arkham game.
People are absolutely in the right to be bothered by Batman's use of lethal force in the film. Precedent in other adaptations is precedent BY adaptation.
The character was established for over half a century as having a no-kill code. I don't care if some random editor 70 years ago came with it rather than authorial intent. I don't care some esoteric comic book story arc explored the idea of Batman killing.
The film treats it as a given. It is not in sync with how many people view the character. The film does not convey that it's Batman kills for some kind of character development. It just assumes.
The fact that so many of us defend Snyder is all the proof I need that BvS is fundamentally a poor movie.
>>81276022
found the pro-choice fag
>>81277440
eh. think hating directors for the work they do is kind of pathetic.
I can spend that time doing cool things like hating comic book writers for introducing minorities to books and jerking off the art of Frank cho.
Sorry if i choose to use my time wisely.
>>81277523
Which the film is clear as mud about.
>>81277619
I'm not pro-choice. I just hate babies.
All it takes is one to grow up into the murderer who will kill me. And if there is even a ONE PERCENT CHANCE...
>>81273148
Are you really judging on his fashion sense? Just fuckin why?
>>81277630
You could easily do both
>>81276766
he's the super devil obviously
>>81277856
What degrees do I need to become that?
>>81277690
What else can I bash him on? I need something about him to hate.
>>81277630
>Sorry if i choose to use my time wisely.
You're here.
You're not doing that.
>>81277564
The flaw with this line of logic is we're going by one Universe's adaptation.
The quintessential essence of Batman isn't his no kill code. It's his lust for invoking fear into the criminals of Gotham. That is primary. A secondary is no-kill, as he is portrayed as someone who believes doing so makes him no better than the criminals he's fighting.
When we're viewing the context of the movie though, that 75 year old pipedream doesn't translate as well. Nolan made good movies but they weren't good batman movies; they were crime dramas, and even he maintains this.
Batman chasing around in his batmobile will have unfortunate injuries and casualties, but when we're faced with a problem that is literally larger than life - where a creature like Doomsday is a looming threat to the entire planet, it doesn't really add much.
People are absolutely in no right frame of mind. Again, the Burton movies literally have him murder the Joker, and that is one of the most beloved Batman movies. They also have him incinerate people with his batmobile flames, and strap dynamite onto a dude and watch him explode.
Also, the original Batman from the 40s carried guns and killed people. So what, are you going to say Bob Kane had no idea of what Batman was?
>>81277925
His weight and height.
>>81277925
Why do you need ammunition to hate him?
>>81275022
He was an alcohol with PTSD that was having violent nightmares constantly. The whole point was to make you question what a hero even is.
>>81277987
Heyy heavy guy are pretty great to sleep on. And being short is cute af. Add a beard and it's perfection.
>>81277948
>lust for invoking fear
I'm pretty sure it's his childish notion that one man could take on Crime by punching drug dealers and crime bosses.
>>81277939
Lol *slow clap*
>>81278072
>what a hero even is
>not fucking this
>not fucking that
>>81275779
>flashbang grenade
>>81276527
His parents didn't really help matters.
>Never save anyone, even at no risk to yourself
>I can still hear the horses wailing in my sleep
>You don't need to be anything to these people, you don't owe them a damn thing.
It's a wonder Superman turned out the way he did.
>>81277948
>So what, are you going to say Bob Kane had no idea of what Batman was?
Bob Kane was in fact an artist who never wrote Batman. Bill Finger was the author of Batman and contributed a lot to the character along with Jerry Robinson and Kane's dozens of ghost writers and uncredited artists.
Within the story of BvS, the story simply presents Batman as willing to take life. Average viewers deserved a line of dialog, a simple quick scene to better convey the film's interpretation.
I can criticize the film for not being more transparent with its interpretation. Many people can.
>>81278072
Most heroes are like that tho. You ever meet a war veteran or a cop?
>>81273089
Didn't he post a picture of himself in tears in response to having seen Affleck's costume for the first time?
>>81273200
>Body dysmorphia
Isn't it only body dysmorphia if your perception of your body is inaccurate?
>>81275696
It took him two viewing to realize those were ParaDemons? I thought he was a fan of this shit. You could tell they were ParaDemons from the trailer. And I'm utterly baffled as to what the fuck that phrase "the films heart is in the viewer" means. I normally don't buy into to that paid review shit but this one I'd actually believe.
>>81278439
You are wrong, and misguided. We were given the establishment that Batman's character became Batman to ultimately do right by his parents.
We are weening towards the end or middle of his career; one thing is irrefutable is that he has had a considerable amount of history we've yet to see, as he's already had a robin die, and they may just make it the only robin to confirm to Batman that he can only work alone.
With this, the setup here is otherwordly beings that are so powerful that it literally made him unhinged to the point where he would consider killing kryptonians if it meant saving the planet.
After the Martha scene we get another shift in his character. And much like the how Superman's value of life sprung from the terrible impact he received from being feeling forced to take zod's, Bruce promises to do right by Superman in death, as he feels he failed in life. So we could potentially see this going on track.
The ultimate point is that these are flawed portrayals with a purpose. It adds more dimensions to their character. It shows they make mistakes while trying to fight for the greater good, and unfortunately have to be pushed beyond their limits when Omega-level incidents are threatening to wipe out the earth.
And nice WIki blurb there, pal. He conceived of the idea of the Batman, so I'll continue to associate him as the creator. Since the world does, too. And that doesn't deny what I wrote, it's a shitty deflection. He still murdered people and carried weapons.
>>81278836
body dysphoria is when there is dissonance between how your body is and how it should be, regarding stuff like sex or number of limbs or whatever
body dysmorphia is when you hate how your body is shaped to an irrational degree. it's just a fancy word for being insecure about your weight/hairiness/musculature
>>81278739
>cops
>heroes
Wew
People want Superman to do any saving they'll have to make a signal that sounds like Lois in distress.
I never thought I would see this, it's amazing
>>81279060
>implying cops are only assholes to black people
W E W
>>81279140
Cops are some of the purest people on Earth.
Now, fuck off back to Tumblr.
>>81279209
>I have never met a cop
W E W
E
W
>>81273089
>The man who likes anything with a cape on it doesn't like BvS
Shit.
>>81279254
>if i meme again, people will agree!
cops are the glue holding this society together
have fun with the hooting and hollering basketball americans if you want them gone so badly, or go to a third world country that can't rely on cops to save them and see how much literally everyone misses the boys in blue there
>>81279140
Yea like the Chief of Police of Chicago, though he's a black dude.
>>81279492
Go suck off your cop dad and quit shitting up the thread with your crying.
