>coldblooded killer
>invited to the Avengers
>given a pass on his past crimes by Steve Rodgers
>continues to kill in cold blood
>other characters hate him but not because he's a murderer, just because he's "annoying"
>>81262430
well. its deadpool. what you expect m8
Has he ever killed anyone who didn't deserve it?
>>81262459
The problem isn't him, it's how he is treated in universe and by writers
If he was some fringe loner like Ghost Rider or Punisher then there wouldn't be a problem
>>81262491
>Punisher
What's worse is that Steve clearly thinks he's scum
>>81262430
this is pretty much because he is popular
the same way wolverine was in the Avengers for no reason other than sales
>>81262491
yes, specially in Kelly's run
>>81262430
Since joining he follows rules of engagement or uses rubber bullets.
He was a soldier, he knows how to follow those kind of rules.
Also, both Cap and Logan are receiving respected enough to buy Wade at least tacit acceptance. You don't have to like everyone you work with.
>>81263370
>yes, specially in Kelly's run
That was the only Deadpool done right
>>81262430
Most people in the avengers have killed people. It would be hypocritical to start bitching at him.
>>81263807
Deadpool regularly kills people and continues to do it
>>81263761
>You don't have to like everyone you work with.
This is superheroing/avengers, there's more to it than that
>>81263765
i liked his identity theft origin story more than all the other retcons
>>81263765
you didn't like Remender's version?
>>81262430
Pal, bunch of heroes in the Avengers killed people. Steve Rogers was a fucking soldier, for fucks sake. Black Widow was a fucking spy. Bucky was a fucking assassin. Hawkeye used to be - guess what, a fucking mercenary! Better idea, try to find me an Avenger that DOESN'T have blood on their hands, I will fucking wait right here.
The problem with Punisher is his entire approach - he doesn't kill people in combat/self defense, he's a straight up murderer who's end goal is more murder. Punisher doesn't even believe in good and evil - just in destroying evil.
Deadpool in comparison used to be a mercenary, but generally most of the times he only took jobs that were morally justifiable, and helped superhero teams on regular basis.
>>81263886
>regularly kills people and continues to do it
Yeah,same as soldiers and cops. But they either follow rules of engagement / use of force training, etc.
As of 2016, Deadpool doesn't use lethal force against anyone who isn't using lethal force against him. People shoot at him -- he shoots back.
>>81264358
Deadpool still kills when he doesn't need to, that makes him closer to the Punisher than the others
>you will never see Spider-Man and Deadpool trying to oneup each other for Cap's admiration
>>81262491
Back in Kelly's run, Al mentions that the first time she tried to escape him, he found her and killed the guy she was planning to stay with.
Generally speaking he grew more sympathetic as times go on, but he isn't above simple merc job as long at it doesn't pay, although that if he finds out his employers are scums dragging innocents into this mess he'll switch side. He also often beat or shot civilians to get what he wants or as a distraction, but always non-lethally.
Currently he's tracking down the killer of his own parents, which is no other than himself.
>>81264507
>as long at it doesn't pay
as long as it pays well*
>>81262430
Supposedly Wade is trying to turn over a new leaf and Steve gave him that chance but the other writers aren't getting the memo.
However I do like how other characters react to Wade being an Avenger, especially when they find out Cap was the one who made him one.
If you breakdown Deadpool's approach to killing, it splits into a few different groups.
First, there's people he killed when he was crazy/brainwashed/disturbed.
Then there's people he killed when he didn't even have his own book, and bothered X-force or the New Mutants as a villain.
The above two is mostly older stuff that "doesn't count" in the mind of Steve Rogers.
Other deaths attributed to Deadpool are either legitimate use of force (same as a cop or a soldier), or are approved and disavowed by authorities (SHIELD, the US Govt, whatever). Yeah he's still a mercenary... a mercenary that is often HIRED by the only people that would prosecute him.
Yes, in his current book he's strongly considering offing Peter Parker (who he thinks is a super villain) but hasn't done so yet.
Here's a big hint for you. In real life when you kill a terrorist on the state department's wanted list, you typically don't get charged with murder.
>>81265107
Deadpool is perfectly capable of subduing enemies without resorting to killing
He is consciously making the decision to commit murder and people like Peter should actively try to arrest him
>>81265830
See, what I don't buy is this idea that if you're good enough, then you don't need lethal force to win or survive. That might be true one on one, but when engaging 10 or 100 times you number? It doesn't make sense. No way you face down a small army and win without anyone dying, nit even with healing factor, skills, or whatever.
The big difference between deadpool and punisher's characterization is that for Wade killing guys is the means. For Frank, it's the ends.
When Wade kills people it's a job. Often its also as part of a semi-legitimate system that tacitly tolerates his killing under certain conditions.
When Frank kills people it's in opposition to all systems and controls, and based on his own miral judgments. Deadpool doesn't judge anyone when he kills people. Yes he enjoys violence, violence isn't the 'point'.
Take a real look at who he's been fighting lately. North Korean soldiers. Ultimatum (facist terrorists) Brutal cartels.
Groups that are either foreign militaries (where rules of war apply), hravily armed terrorists, or in anarchic regions with no rule of law
>>81262430
1) Deadpool doesn't belong with Avengers
2) Deadpool is going to end up like Wolverine - overdone and overexposed
3) Wolverine and Deadpool joining Avengers was one of the worst thing to happen in marvel, as it opened a can of worms
>>81264389
>>81264358
Deadpool is a merc, not a soldier.
Duggan made a huge mistake in making DP joining Avengers
>>81266900
>1) Deadpool doesn't belong with Avengers
Agreed
>2) Deadpool is going to end up like Wolverine - overdone and overexposed
Don't know, should have happened sooner, he constantly has several books out and is Marvels #2 solo hero after Spiderman (Unless you believe Bendis numbers on Ironman are legitimate)
>3) Wolverine and Deadpool joining Avengers was one of the worst thing to happen in marvel, as it opened a can of worms
I'll say Spiderman too, a character that's thrown on the team without contributing anything
Deadpool is worse though as the team bends around him
>>81266672
It's just Duggan being an idiot and not getting the character
>>81262430
The avengers had never been heroes, and Rogers is a soldier, he isnt Marvel's Superman, he just looks morally right thnaks to hanging with a monster, killers and former supervillians and tony "in the dc unvierse i would be considered a supervillian" stark.
>>81267008
I wanted to add Spider-Man as well, but I hesitated, because Parker has a different kind of popularity. Parker had many solo ongoings going at the same time, dedicated solely to him, and managed to do fine. If 80s and 90s didn't make Spider-Man overexposed, then nothing will.
Also, Parker is more of a hero than Wolvie or DP EVER were, and both Wolvie and DP aren't actually as likable as Friendly Neighborhood Peter. What made Wolvie and DP work was that they were lone wolves, and that they barely worked in a team. Then Bendis happened.
I agree that DP had a lot of books, but joining the Avengers is THAT moment, when you know that it's going to be downhill from there.
>>81267091
>The avengers had never been heroes
Oh c'mon. They are the epitome of capeshit.
>>81267091
>The avengers had never been heroes
Really?
Even ignoring history, being "heroes" openly is the purpose of the unity squad since it's good PR
>>81267263
They are the good guys and fight villians.
But heroic? nah.
>>81267034
The character has changed. That's part of his arc. Which is why he's on the Avengers now. Duh.
>>81262547
>The problem isn't him, it's how he is treated in universe and by writers
Half that, and half that the Avengers have had no standards for recruiting in a very long time. Not a very big deal.
>>81267171
>but joining the Avengers is THAT moment, when you know that it's going to be downhill from there.
He's not even on the real avengers team, he's on the unity team, which is a pet project of Steve Rogers. Fucking hell, ROGUE is on the team and she used to be a straight up villain.
>>81267362
And it's a shitty change
>>81267437
Last time I checked the book's name was Uncanny AVENGERS
Rogue wasn't really a villain, as much as she was troubled teenager under bad influence
What was the villainous things that she did, beside taking powers of Carol Danvers?
>>81267429
>the Avengers have had no standards for recruiting in a very long time.
I think this has an in-universe explanation.
The Avengers are no longer an informal group of 'heroes' who do 'good' by their own code.
Today, because of their connections with SHIELD, they're more like deputized peace officers. It's larger organization with legal protections and special privileges and missions that sometimes bleed into crossover with the sort of stuff SHIELD does... which is morally ambiguous. Like, SHIELD is supposed to represent the power of the state, complete with all its ugliness.
So yes, just like the CIA they sometimes employ killers and assassins. And they give them the membership card because it's easier than not doing so.
Sometimes they bring them into the fold simply because it's better to have the assassins and killers on your side rather than working for the enemy, or worse, themselves.
>>81267591
>I think this has an in-universe explanation.
I don't. Hell, I'll go as far as to correct my previous statement.
>the Avengers have had no standards for recruiting since the beginning.
The writers never gave a fuck about the meaning of the Avengers' membership, until somewhat recently. They just thought "could this guy interact well with these guys? Yes? Put him in!"
>>81266672
>Ultimatum (facist terrorists)
what? since when are they fascists?
>>81267687
If there's no in-universe explanation then how do you explain the Avengers hob-nobbing with Original Nick Fury for years. That guy has killed more people than ten James Bonds. How do you explain their relationship with SHIELD (an organization which definitely kills people)
Cap has killed people in war.
Hulk has killed people on rampages.
Over his millennial long lifespan, Thor has killed people, ice giants, elves, humans, aliens, and whats more he did it for nothing more than petty glory.
Iron man was a fucking arms dealer
Hawkeye was a criminal and a mercenary, he definitely killed people.
>>81267591
>>81267687
At first I understood it as "hey, we like you guys, we have the same interests, let's fight together." This was definitely true in the earlier days.
But for quite some time there's been a lot of overlap between the Avengers and SHIELD - Steve and Tony ran both organizations at different periods. I think the whole "recruiting killers" started with Bendis's NA, I distinctly remember Tony and Steve having a conversation about Logan being on the team, and I think Tony was the one who was like "Sometimes we need people who are willing to do the job we can't" type of thing.
After House of M, Civil War and Time Runs Out I'd imagine the Avengers are much more understanding of bending the rules and forgiving past crimes.
Finally, Wade is in a slightly different situation where he's dubiously sane and had periods where he absolutely wasn't responsible for his actions. Despite his many mental (and physical) issues, however, he's still trying to do good and be a hero (like Bucky!), and I think Steve respects that.
>>81267867
All these newbies forget that back in the 60s, the first major changeover (the Kooky Quarter) was Cap + 3 former criminals.
The Avengers were ALWAYS open for ex-villains looking for redemption, and many of the most prominent members were villains at some point in their careers - Hawkeye, Black Widow, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Wonder Man, etc. (which is why their bizarre attitude towards Scott post-AvX is so baffling, but that's a different story).
>>81267867
Hawkeye didn't kill people. Iron Man selling weapons doesn't make him instantly a killer.
Thor mostly "kills" demons, gods, monsters, he doesn't attack regular humans.
Hulk didn't kill people on rampages either. He was just dangerous, but that was the point that he wasn't a killer.
Only Fury was a killer, albeit he wasn't a homicidal maniac
>>81268123
Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch might have been villains, but they weren't Green Goblin-tier villains, and they weren't KILLERS
>>81268123
Would the Kooky Quarter era count as A+X?
It was basically half X-Men team
The avengers are shit
>>81267867
>>81268123
difference is that Deadpool isn't redeemed
>>81267867
I don't understand your post, it seems to strengthen my idea of no explanation, but you disagree with me? Maybe I'm reading this wrong.
They didn't use to care, once you went into the Avengers you were held up to a moral code but your past sins, if any, were forgotten.
>>81268062
As I said, recent developments have changed this.
>>81268135
And Criminals like Scarlet Witch? Quicksilver?
The only people on the original Avengers who didn't have some horrible crimes on their hands was Janet Van Dyne and Hank Pym.
And Hank Pym didn't even want to be a super hero, he just did it because Jan was bored and he liked getting laid.
>>81268226
It's a slow process, which I respect. It makes it more believable.
Wolverine's arc played out over like 30 years. He went from berserk assassin to folksy cowboy mentor to teenage girls gosh durn it.
>>81268261
What were SW & Quicksilver's crimes?
Being associated with Magneto?
Did they do anything of relevance while being part of Brotherhood, beside just being there?
And notice that Pym became a criminal later
>>81268248
And while Deadpool has barely been in the Avengers for under a year he has stuck to their rules. Whether he can is even a subplot and a source of drama. How is this bad writing? He's in character. The Avengers are in character. There;s a believable conflict.
You're one of those people who think anything that doesn't fit their little concept of how the story ought to be is bad writing.
Everything I see here is consistent with the both the way the Avengers were portrayed in the past, as well as the direction they've slowly evolved in.
>>81268135
>he doesn't attack regular humans.
Yeah okay so sentient life doesn't matter, only human lives.
That's a crock of shit and you know it.
>>81268425
Avengers have rules? Like what? Kidnapping little girls from a mutant island?
>>81268479
Sentient, as in what? Some examples?
I crush bugs, am I a killer?
You do realize that people only care if something happens to other people.
>>81268425
>You're one of those people who think anything that doesn't fit their little concept of how the story ought to be is bad writing.
What? These are my posts:
>>81267429
>>81267687
>>81268248
I never said anything about the quality of the writing or even complained about Deadpool. I'm saying it's 100% consistent with their history to recruit him, it's not a big deal. You are picking a fight where there is none.
>>81267591
>The Avengers are no longer an informal group of 'heroes' who do 'good' by their own code.
They haven't been that in decades. They operate under an official government charter that lays out the rule of how they work, sometimes the men in charge are hands off and let them have some leeway, and other times they drown them in red tape and bureaucracy. Remember US Agent being appointed to the West Coast team without any of them having a say in it? How about Falcon refusing to join because they just wanted him to fill a quota? Only time The Avengers were informal in any significant way was New Avengers after the real team disbanded.
