Batman not killing is why he's so interesting. Despite all that happens and will happen he stands by his convictions. He's holding his ground in the face of Armageddon.
Zack Snyder doesn't understand the character. He understands NONE of these characters. He's just a frat boy aimlessly running around with 200 million dollar budgets.
>>81241751
>Batman
>interesting
>>81241751
Man, I think that he understand some aspects, he just doesn't give a fuck and what to do his own shitty fanfic that he think is better.
Every Batman on film has killed. Yet when Snyder does it, it's because he doesn't understand Batman.
The movie itself gave you plenty to pick at. Why bother making stuff up?
>>81241751
Batman not killing isn't the oly reason why Batman is interesting.
>Zack Snyder doesn't understand the character.
You probably right, but Affleck is, and he made him work for a lot of people including me
You are a fucking idiot, Batman's whole arc was reclaiming his no kill code because he had been thrown off his path via losing a robin and paranoia
>>81241994
But he's outright killing people in this. In the Batmobile sequence he blatantly kills people ONSCREEN. It wasn't a coincidence, like he was literally out for blood.
I want Batman The Noble Knight, not The Punisher.
>>81242184
>>81241751
>if I kill I become an insane criminal
>if WW2 vets killed nazi's, they became nazi's
I'm sick of this shit
>>81241751
>Batman not killing is why he's so interesting.
HOLD ON! NEWS FLASH!He has killed plenty of people. Do your fucking research retard.
>>81241751
>
Zack Snyder doesn't understand the character. He understands NONE of these characters. He's just a frat boy aimlessly running around with 200 million dollar budgets.
Does the term "Elseworld" mean nothing anymore? Are writers and directors no longer allowed to reinterpret characters?
>>81242184
Michael Keaton's strapped a bomb to a man. His Batmobile sequences alone have a ridiculous body count.
Christian Bales "I won't kill you but I don't have to save you" is a bullshit loophole that shouldn't count. Minus that how many people did he kill when he blew up Ra's Al Ghuls fortress? You know the place that he refused to execute a man but seemingly left him to perish in an explosion.
Funnily enough this isnt even a nuh muh comics issue
Its nuh muh wikipedia page issue
It says on wikipedia that Batman has a no kill code so Snyder got it wrong. Its that simple
>>81242290
>>81242475
>>81242537
>These so called "Batman fans" blown the fuck out.
Where's actual comic fans like this anon here proving everyone wrong here?
>>81241751
OP, you are a whiny crybaby.
>>81242361
Pacifism does not work, and yet young idiots will still believe it does.
>>81242290
>>81242475
>>81242537
>>81242614
>>81242680
>>81242753
Where's my retarded Batman fans at claiming Batman never kills? He's killed plenty of people.
>>81242290
>>81242475
>>81242537
>>81242614
>>81242680
>>81242753
These comics don't count lmao. Stop pulling at straws.
>>81242475
>>81242537
>>81242614
>>81242680
Are you genuinely trying to use golden age shit as an example? We all know he killed in the golden age, and the no kill code was adopted later. Not to mention this is pre crisis and no longer canon.
Try harder.
>>81242826
>>81242854
This mother fucker is a real Batman fan.
>>81242826
>Lol no those Batman comics buy the original creators don't count anymore!
>>81242184
>he's outright killing people in this
>Keatonman killed numerous thugs, Joker, and Penguin.
>Kilmerman murdered Dent
>Baleman blew up the LoS monastery, and killed Ra's, Dent and Talia.
>Batman The Noble Knight
>Operating outside the law
>Assaulting police officers
>Causing absurd amounts of collateral damage
>Using child soldiers
Batman is the direct opposite of noble.
>>81242844
>>81242826
I can't fucking tell what's serious and what's not
jesus christ I hate comic movies bringing people here
In conclusion
>>81242844
This.
>>81242844
RE
TARD
Movie is canon to itself. It's its own canon. You have no reason, and no right, to demand a movie adaptation follows YOUR favorite version.
>>81242844
>Not to mention this is pre crisis and no longer canon.
The movies aren't canon either so why does it matter if he kills in them?
>>81242290
>>81242475
>>81242537
>>81242614
>>81242680
Let's be real here. There is a vast difference between the original incarnation of Batman in the 40s and 50s, and the way he has been portrayed for the last forty or so years. Retards posting scans from his inception and saying "hurr durr see the character has done it" are completely ignoring the vast bulk of works with Batman and his character.
>>81242184
I might have gotten this wrong, and I'm certainly on the lookout for this detail the next time I watch BvS, but his fire was more a suppressive fire than a shoot to kill type of fire. There may have been car explosions and the sort, but I don't reader on screen deaths except the flamethrower scene, which you can easily argue was in the same sort of situation as Ra's Al Ghul the other time.
Once again, I could be wrong, this is based off what I saw last Thursday. I'm definitely watching this visual orgy one more time and I'm definitely looking out for that.
>>81241751
Yeah but he killed in the early days, in x panel and that one ambiguous scene in DKR so that makes it okay
>>81242899
oh come on I'm not even the guy you're arguing with, but did you even read what you're posting?
>once-in-a lifetime exception
darkseid is the only person he's willing to break the code for, because he's the god of evil
i don't even care that batfleck kills except for the fact that it means we can never have this scene in film
>>81242889
Those weren't necassarily outright murders though.
Looks like you deluded cucks are willing to try to 'modify" Batman's well established rules of conducts all just to defend this shitty new movie.
Talk about damage control in its purest form.
>>81242960
>original version of batman kills
>every movie version of batman kills
>batman even kills in the vidya games
>even at the height of his no kill code shit he killed KGBeast (even though it was retconned later)
>but muh batman never kills ever!
>>81242994
I mean, technically he says he has a once-in-a lifetime code against firearms, not killing.
>>81241751
Ok, who does Batman actually kill in the movie?
What many people miss is that if Batman doesn't have a no-kill rule, then there is zero reason for any of his enemies to be alive.
Someone explain why a Batman who is perfectly fine with stabbing a grunt or blowing up a car full of thugs would let a guy like the Joker walk the streets of Gotham?
>>81243079
don't be stupid if you've read final crisis you know that the bullet is going to kill darkseid, that's why batman is using it
Also I've always been more under the impression he doesn't kill because he knows that he personally will go overboard, which is perhaps what's happening in the movie
He sort of has 'okayed' killings by Jason in comics recently, and when Damian killed the Spook and Nobody he did nothing but hide it
>>81243116
This is basically the real problem. Did no one Tell Snyder / Terrio / Goyer they had a movie with like 6 people from Batman's rogue gallery coming out mere months later?
Anyway, congrats on destroying any "realism" in you "shared universe" WB.
I dunno why it had to come to this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn_FMsoTkGY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn_FMsoTkGY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn_FMsoTkGY
>>81243217
i'm pretty sure that batfleck isn't an executioner, he just gives no shits about collateral.
>>81243196
if you're talking about the part in BRE where batman says that jason goes "where he can't", that was total bullshit and just used as an editorial excuse to force jason into batman events because normies love him even though he goes against everything batman stands for
>>81243046
>Those weren't necassarily outright murders though
>Blowing someone off the road with a missile isn't outright murder
>Tackling someone off a building isn't outright murder
>Shoving someone of the top of the tallest building in Gotham isn't outright murder
>Blowing up a building that you know is highly populated isn't outright murder
>Attaching a bomb to someone isn't outright murder
Ok.
>Batman's rules are well established
They are the direct opposite.
>>81243055
This anon is the most right.
>>81243055
/thread
Fucking retards who're desperate to deny this is a retard.
>>81243055
Cartoon never killed. Cartoon is what matters most.
>>81243527
kys
>>81241751
>pretending you're not the same nigger who complains about batman not killing the joker all the time
I don't like Batman killing, but it's an entirely viable choice. The movie was produced by Johns and he clearly had a lot of stupid fucking influence.
>>81243116
>What many people miss is that if Batman doesn't have a no-kill rule, then there is zero reason for any of his enemies to be alive.
This. The only reason that it's still in place now is so that DC can continue to put the Joker in everything.
>>81243102
Some guy in a dream sequence with a neck snap. All the other deaths are via Batmobile shit or him just choosing "not to save people" just like in nearly all the other Batman movies.
>>81243553
ohohohohoh looks like you got proven wrong. Nice try but you lost the argument
>>81243412
Well, has Bruce done anything to try and stop Jason?
>>81243586
> The only reason that it's still in place now is so that DC can continue to put the Joker in everything.
Well, now he has to be a moral compass to his son-of-murder and set a good example, so it makes more sense for him to hold himself to a high standard. This was a nice momentin the arc I cannot shut about todaywhere you can pretty much see that weight of responsibility on him.
>>81242448
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0kmVEjPKKM
I hated the "I'm not going to save you" excuse too. I'm surprised it didn't cause an uproar.
>>81243412
>i'm pretty sure that batfleck isn't an executioner, he just gives no shits about collateral.
Which is sort of accurate. Even in the comics.
In all the 90s movies Batman "tries" to save someone, but then lets them go and they die and he's on to the next thing. Basically a "if you're driving 80 mph on an urban street too busy trying to shoot the fuck out of me to see what you're crashing into you're in Darwin territory"
Killing the flamethrower dude, I could see, too, if only because basically the entire world was at stake.
Also keep in mind this is a different Batman. It's not BTAS or even comic Batman. It's "like" Frank Miller Batman but not exactly. It's another universe Batman, and plenty of alternate universe Batmen kill the fuck out of folks.
Unfortunately Johns had a hand in it, and Johns cannot do the Trinity for shit.
>>81242968
This. The movie was violent for visual reasons, but a lot of Batman's kills can only be estimated. He wasn't trying to kill, it's just that he didn't really care if that was the outcome.
Fuck the CCA for making people think that no-kill rules are important to their shitty children's characters.
>>81243732
that's the thing, bruce SHOULD stop jason but he can't because if he succeeds, there goes the red hood series that somehow is still being printed despite lobdell, and I guess jason ends up on the suicide squadwhich wouldn't be too bad
and if he doesn't succeed then it's just an inconsequential arc and a waste of the readers time
>>81242968
You can easily retcon that the bullets he shot out of the Batwing were rubber bullets. And wasn't the guy who blew up KGBeast? He probably just lost an arm.
>>81243140
What that anon meant is that he can kill other times without firearms
OP is right.
Batman doesn't kill because he knows if he does he's no better than the scum he pursues.
Stop pulling at straws and changing the narrative just to defend this shitty Snyder flick. It's embarrassing and pathetic.
>>81244094
he doesn't though, that's the entire point of morrison's batgod - he's beyond basic logic and realistic interactions, he's become an idea of a shining knight in the darkness, striking fear into the hearts of criminals. not killing is a pretty important part of batgod because anyone can go around killing criminals, but to do what batman does with no one dying? pretty much impossible, which is why batman is considered so amazing
Despite what Zack Snyder describes about the scenes, and what they looked like
Batman didnt kill anyone in BvS
Just wait and see in a few months
>>81242948
Yeah, you could also ditch the cape, the ears, the name, and the symbol because it's its own canon. Doesn't mean you should. Especially when Snyder's response was, "oh I watched a video about implied deaths in other movies so I decided to explicitly have him murder people.
The thing is, the kill code is a huge part of the character. Even in instances where he breaks it, it's still present, and it's a big deal that he broke it! TDK did this with Harvey Dent and it worked fine. There'd be less complaints if we were explicitly shown that Bats decided to abandon the code due to Superman's arrival or his history with the Joker. Here he's suddenly is gunning people down with the Batmobile and it's jarring as fuck for people familiar with him not killing.
Snyder's shit at showing the audience shit in general. Such as Superman killing Zod having no emotional weight as we weren't shown one moment that made a clear emphasis that Superman values lives. Or when Superman launches the African warlord in a way that would totally kill someome and then later says nobody died. Or characters loudly announcing that all the areas they fought Doomsday in are magically empty despite them all mostly looking like populated buildings.
>>81244020
Jason should have been on SS since UtH.
>>81242152
him getting on the right path was superman saying martha. He literally 180s his entire personality at this. It is shitty writing
>>81241751
>it's a he doesn't get/understand the characters meme
when will those end?
>>81244225
>Just wait and see in a few months
Are you talking about the R-rated cut?
>>81244241
>There'd be less complaints if we were explicitly shown that Bats decided to abandon the code due to Superman's arrival or his history with the Joker.
This was implied in several of Alfred and Bruce's dialogue exchanges. Why do you need things spelled out for you?
>>81241751
>Batman not killing is why he's so interesting.
It really, really, really isn't.
>>81244241
>>There'd be less complaints if we were explicitly shown that Bats decided to abandon the code due to Superman's arrival or his history with the Joker
Holy shit dude, LITERALLY the first thing Alfred says to Batman explains everything. It could not possibly be more spelled out.
BvS is a deeply flawed movie, but I am fully convinced its most vocal detractors are actually retarded.
>>81244020
Jason on the Suicide Squad would be cool, it looked like we were heading that way right after Under the Red Hood, and certainly once he got arrested post fighting Dick/Damian. I sort of wish it continued in that trajectory, including ginger Thor Jason.
At least then one of the Robins looked different.
>>81244216
True, but the whole arc is kinda showing it's a ridiculous idea. He causes more damage by playing this fool's game and allowing the villains to flourish.
>>81244175
I didn't actually care for the film that much, I just don't find Bruce's no-kill code the most interesting thing about Batman or a dealbreaker. He was founded killing, has killed in many incarnations, and continues to make excuses to technically kill people or let it slide today. When he's pushed to the brink, he's usually tempted in comics to do it -- in the movie you have a Batman that's over the brink, without the Batfamily there to bring him back to himself
>>81241751
>Batman not killing is why he's so interesting.
No.
>>81242899
So? That comic was shit. You can find shit comics to justify anything.
>>81242184
First of all, batman has always been a psychopath. And he had already made up his mind about killing superman so he probably justified it that anyone who got in his way would be collateral damage, and he's crazy enough to see it as "I didn't kill them, the car exploding did. If he really had no problem with killing then why didn't he carry a gun?
>>81241873
>implying Batman doesn't have the best cape animated films,cape vidja and cape comics
>>81244225
He doesn't directly kill anyone, only during the nightmare scene.
I mean, of course he killed some foes, but it's only implied.
>>81245947
Are you blind?
>>81242968
Well I definitely remember him crushing a man when he lands the batmobile on the truck. There were three guys (2 with guns, one with the rocket) then he lands and there's only 1 with a gun and the rocket guy
>>81244225
So it'll be like every other Batman movie where he causes wanton destruction, but somehow everyone manages to get out just fine?
>>81247207
This scene is a hundred times worse by the way because it follows IMMEDIATELY after Bruce not wanting to execute a prisoner.
>I will go back to Gotham and I will fight men like this, but I will not become an executioner
>*immediately kills dozens of ninjas*
If memory serves the movie with Adam West and the ones by Joel Schumcher are the only live action ones where Batman doesn't kill.
Therefore, they are the best.
>>81247269
>This scene is a hundred times worse by the way
Not only this, but in BvS, it's been firmly established that Batman has gone off the deep end and at no point is killing portrayed as some kind of line he's not willing to cross. He fucks up a bunch of organized mobsters, there's no reason to believe he cared. Dudes already fully committed to murdering Superman at this point and has fully denounced his entire career as Batman as pointless and futile.
>>81245947
No he definitely kills people in the Batmobile and Batwing. The fight in the warehouse I might forgive the grenade kill because that guy was dumb.
It's kind of amazing to me that we're having this conversation.
You guys do know that Batman was like the villain right? He was a bad guy. He did bad things. Nobody seems to complain quite this much in all of the media that inevitably depicts Superman as a murderous villain.
>>81245947
>>81247439
Also the flamethrower dude. But at least that guy was about to kill Martha.
Still, whatever happened to knocking people out with Batarangs?
>>81244269
ur retarded, thats is not when he reclaims his no kill code because he still kills after that, its after superman dies and he fights doomsday (he who fights monsters, look into the void the void looks back, etc.)
>>81247410
>and has fully denounced his entire career as Batman as pointless and futile.
Bullshit. I was with you on the rest of your post but at no point is it suggested he think his career is pointless and futile.
Hell, he took down Superman. It might have taken some extra effort and planning, but in the end it's just another day for Batman.
>>81248228
>
Bullshit. I was with you on the rest of your post but at no point is it suggested he think his career is pointless and futile.
Dude he literally say that in no unclear terms. "Fighting criminals is like pulling weeds." Killing Superman is his only chance to actually do something meaningful in his career.
This isn't like an interpretation or something, he says ALL OF THIS to Alfred.
>>81242899
Even in that case he didn't shoot to kill, just to wound Darkseid so that he'd leave his human host.
I don't mind Batman killing but I did find it jarring that the first action scene we see him in he pulls out a fucking gun and starts going Rambo on everyone. I know it's a dream sequence but it's not the best first impression to give.
>>81248393
That was an alternate timeline though.
>no one bitches when Burton does it
>muh no kill is fun!
No it is not. It may work for Daredevil right now but this bullshit is a groaner that makes people tune the fuck out of comics.
The only reason Bats stopped killing is so he could have recurring villains and campy serials instead of radical reboots. Batman is a serialized character. Batman changes over time. Batman in the 40's made sense to use guns. Batmujhadeen Mohammad Affleck makes sense to use guns. How do you expect your autism to work in a high stakes 9/11 plot fueled by fear of authourity and power?
>>81248554
>Batmujhadeen Mohammad Affleck
WAT
>>81248659
>batman in the middle east
>affleck being buttblasted over Islam
Wake up sheeple
Batman has the blessings of Allah.
But this Batman makes sense to kill. He's a Batman who's gone too far, so far he's a legitimate problem for Superman.
The whole terror theme in the movie falls apart without a legitimately spooky and threatening Batman.
>>81241751
Kevin Smith summed it pretty well, funny enough. It's like Zack read the part of TDKR where Batman and Superman fight and made a move based on that, ignoring the 3 books preceding it and 50 years of history up to that point.
Let that sink in. Even Kevin Smith thought this movie sucked and he loves everything.
>>81248824
Hell, Kevin Smith was the hype man for the movie in just about every WB/DC promotion event. If he didn't like it you know you fucked up.
>>81248084
Shurikans were never an effective way of incapacitating someone safely
Am I the only one who goes into these movies understanding that these are basically Elseworld stories?
This is a world here Batman kills just like he originally did, because waging WAR on crime means that you get rid of the enemy, and a world where PA Kent told Clark to hide hi poems or else he'd be seen as a monster.
>>81249010
Yes. People will accept that Marvel movies are nothing like the tone of the comics they're based on. But god forbid Batmam in a movie does something outta character.
All I want to say is that I feel like shit that this didn't turn out how itvwas supossed. Right now I'm Obie Wan yelling at the burning body of Anakin. You were supposed to be the chosen one!
Shit man, I'm so depressed right now.
>>81249125
Meh. Not that bad. I was depressed when I heard how awful it was. It wasn't bad. disappointing? Yeah, I'd been hyping this shit up since it was announced. It's honestly not as disappointing as SW ep7.
The whole tone of the movie is fucked up. It should have never been Batman v Superman, it should have been Batman and Superman: World's Finest. Anyone else remember early interviews where Zack said Superman would look up to Batman (literally, as Affleck is taller).
Why would Superman look up to this character? He's lost touch with humanity, he continues the cycle of violence he swore he would work to end. That wasn't Batman. They were so close but they decided to take it too far. The branding I could deal with, but straight up massacring these people with no chance of redemption was too much for me. I guess we can try to get an accurate Batman again in the next 20 years
>>81241994
>Every Batman on film has killed. Yet when Snyder does it, it's because he doesn't understand Batman.
When the others do it, it's because they don't get him either.
Hollywood just cannot conceive of a hero who doesn't kill the villain.
>>81250494
Green Goblin and Dr. Ocotopus both killed themselves in Raimi Spider-Man, which is why those remain the best capeshit movies.
>>81250494
>Hollywood just cannot conceive of a hero who doesn't kill the villain.
Yes it can.
Hollywood movies are filled with villains ending their own dumb selves.
God I love Batfleck
>>81249083
>>81249010
The "its okay for them to fuck over a character because its an elseworld hurr" is the dumbest shit i ever hear on /co/, they arent really ment to be elseworlds they are ment to be adaptions that celebrate the characters entire history, if it really was a direct elseworld theyd make it pretty clear that this isnt your everday batman
>>81250671
Because the villains conveniently killed themselves?those movies were good because it wasn't made by a committee or concerned with setting up sequels. Spider-Man 1 & 2 blow the fuck outta MCU and DCEU movies because they were first and foremost good movies
The no Kill Rule thing is stupid to me for a number of reasons.
1. He doesn't kill but he beats the shit out of them to point where they might as well be dead.
2. The Villains never end up turning to the good side and if they do they always go back to being evil.
3. Arkham is stupid, Joker needs to be on Death Row not rehabilitated, dude is beyond redemption.
4. Bruce wayne should trying be president, cause being Batman has done nothing but cause more trouble. Dressing us a bat a beating the living hell out of criminals is not going to fix things in gotham or any place else for that matter.
>>81250671
Doctopous An Heroing for a last minute redemption was contrived as fuck and SM2 was a bad movie
>>81250704
I FUCKING CACKLED AT THIS
>>81250884
1. Its a movie, if they don't die, they don't die. Simple as that
2. Doesn't hurt to try. Movies, rather then compromise the hero, should allow villains to potentially redeem themselves imo
3. Not Batman's place to decide who lives and dies. Leave that for the law
4. Wayne donates to various charities and the police force, but who wants to watch a movie about that? Comics even say Gotham crime rates have gone down cause of Batman, so he is making a difference.
I was fine with it as this Batman has seen some shit, is desperate and because Alfred implies that he wasn't always so kill happy (and Bruce says something about how he'll try do better or something).
That said, OP is right. It's the one thing I didn't like as far as Bruce's caracterisation go. It was a pointless decisions. It wasn't necessary, didn't add anything (with him stamping petty crooks, I already got that he was fucking brutal) and the only thing it did was allowing Snyder to make his actions scenes less clever by giving him an easy mode.
I liked BvS, but get Snyder away from the DC universe, at least as it's "thinking" leader, before it's too late (if we're not there already). If he stays, I'm afraid that he'll become BatB's Batmite
>>81243820
How'd the second guy get the ski mask off?
>>81243079
But it's not even the first time he used a gun to kill someone, and I'm not even talking about his earliest incarnations in which he sometimes used a pistol.
>>81243217
It's possible all those people are in jail during the events of BvS, and that he didn't outright flip on his no-kill policy immediately after Robin died. It could have been a gradual decline in shits left to give, potentially reaching the killing point long after Joker was behind bars.
In this movie, we see Batman regain some of his faith in the fight for good, and will likely reinstate his no-kill rule.
It's all very "convenient," but far from breaking continuity, as there is no real established timeline yet. And while I'm not going to preemptively defend Suicide Squad or any other future DC films, I will admit that BvS exceeded my expectations.
I know a bunch of anonymous posters on 4chan will probably make fun of me for it, but I thought it was pretty watchable and I might have even enjoyed it. Gasp!
It was never going to be a great movie. We all saw that coming, but it could have been so much worse.
>>81252207
I think it's the most beautiful looking Capeshit we've ever gotten.
>>81245475
and Batman is the worst part of all of those, everyone around him is vastly more interesting
>Why was Lois in Africa?
>Why was Luthor's men in Africa?
>Why did Luthor set up Superman with weird bullets?
>How did Luthor know who Superman was?
>How did Luthor know who Batman was?
>How did Luthor know that Kryptonian fingerprint readers were more primitive than human ones?
>How did Luthor know that there would be a way to defeat Superman in there?
>Why did they give Luthor full access to the ship unmonitored and Zod's body and never question when he disappears inside for hours on end?
>Why did Luthor try to smuggle the Kryptonite in when he was trying to get legal permission to bring it in at the same time?
>Why did Batman know what Kryptonite was when he was persuing the White Portuguese?
>Why did Superman care about someone beating up a human slave trader and a pedophile so much when he was getting flak for causing an international incident?
>Why did Superman ignore the truck with rocket launchers and machine guns to chase after Batman?
>How did Luthor know that Superman would show up to catch Lois?
>How did Lois know to go get the spear?
>Why was Wonder Woman trying to get the photo, when she would have never raised attention if she just never showed up.
>When did Superman realize that Batman was Bruce Wayne?
>Why was Aquaman holding his breath underwater with his cheeks puffed up?
>Why did Luthor want to kill Superman and Batman?
>Why did Luthor make a giant mutant retard he had no means of controlling?
>How did Luthor know how to make a giant mutant retard?
>Why didn't the robot recognize that Luthor wasn't Zod and was an intruder?
>>81248824
There's nothing wrong about the movie in regards to Batman character.
>>81244269
It's like when Sheev flipped a switch in annie's head and made him pledge allegiance to the garveyard smash.
>>81242606
>blown the fuck out.
Nitpicking war propaganda books isn't "blowing the fuck out". We can dig out thousands of panels where he refuses to kill.
You want him to be a murderer because you don't know shit, you don't read comics and you have no idea what you're talking about. Go drool elsewhere, shitdick.
>>81252666
Sure there isn't, satan. Except Batman doesn't kill.
>>81252788
Batman in the movie only started to kill after the Metropolis attack because he lost faith not only in himself and his mission, but also in the world in general. Then in the end he decided to go about his no-kill rule again.
The whole killing thing was there for a brief time just to do a quick character arc.
>>81241751
hello tumblr
>>81242960
You know the no kill code was forced on the character, right? Comics started being over censored so they wrote it in that batman didn't kill, and when the censorship laws were lifted it was already established.
I found it interesting that, outside of the knightmare sequence, we never actually see Batman straight up murder anybody by say stabbing them in the face or snapping their neck. This version of batman seems to take somewhat of a "if you survive this good, but you probably won't" approach when it comes to taking down criminals.
I thought he seemed to actually take extra lengths to avoid directly killing anybody. Why shoot KGBeast's fuel tank when shooting him in the head would have stopped him from burning Martha and not caused an explosion? Why pin thug A to the wall through his shoulder instead of just slicing his throat? Why batclaw thug B through the shoulder and not his head? He brands criminals and lets others kill them instead of just ending them himself. He leaves it to fate to decide if your grenade or car exploding is going to kill you or not.
Now, I'm not saying this is the way Batman should handle things, but he's not quite the cold-blooded killer everyone is saying he is.
Also, by not giving Lex the "certain death" bat brand, and having been inspired by Superman, I think he might be reverting back to a true no-kill rule again.
Wait, wait, wait, fucking wait, MOTHERFUCKING WAIT FOR A FUCKING SECOND
Who was the woman Batman was fucking in that one scene?
>>81252822
Not someone that has an issue with this Batman killing, because I understand the context.
But the reason I think it rubs so many people the wrong way is not just that they are used to Batman having no killing rule, but because there is no real context and backstory in the movie itself.
This is an issue I felt in MoS narrative too. They just tell the story without providing a real background and expect people to know "This bit here is important because it references Issue number X of the comics".
A lot of people wouldn't know about Joker killing Jason, and the reference in the movie is so casual I've seen hundreds of reviewers miss it entirely.
>>81241751
>Batman not killing is why he's so interesting
Not really. What makes Batman is
>vigilante with strong personal sense of justice (including sometimes but not always his no-kill rule)
>dresses like a bat
>gadgets instead of superpowers
That's about it.
>inb4 muh dead parents
Not every incarnation of Batman spends their whole time brooding about that.
>Zack Snyder
Literally every movie Batman killed besides B&R, If there's fault to be found (and I'm sure there is) it's not there.
>>81242844
>>81242960
On the other hand nothing prevents the status quo from moving towards Batman killing people.
His morals have changed before, there's no reason they can't change again (especially outside of main continuity) besides some people being attached to his silver/bronze age incarnation.
>>81253144
Even if they don't know which Robin died or if it was the Joker that killed them shit doesn't matter because Bruce still feels that his mission didn't served for shit and that murdering Superman might be the only thing left that he can do that will make a difference.
If this a generic action movie everybody would get it in an instant that this dude has seen some shit and is going all out, but because this is a capeflick everybody expect a fucking origin movie or something.
>>81242693
>Pacifism does not work
>>81252207
>I will admit that BvS exceeded my expectations.
I thought it was fine, don't understand all the hate.
>>81253088
pls respond
>>81252900
That Batman sounds fucking awesome and should probably be written more often in an explicit way.
Batman's no kill code is a vital part of his character now, but it wasn't always. The core of Batman is that he's a victim that channels his emotional damage into becoming a theatrically-dressed vigilante/detective that uses fear to get things done. That's Batman as a premise. There's nothing wrong with a film's Batman being different from a comic's. In the same way, there's nothing wrong with O'Neil's Batman being different from Miller's or Morrison's.
>>81252948
That doesn't make it any less iconic and important to him. Hell, they actively rationalized it.
>>81254205
But it's not necessary in an absolute sense.
>>81241751
He doesn't kill, he just doesn't have a cartoiny "nobody dies" approach. If a guy comes running at him with a knife in one hand and a grenade in the other, Batman will kick him and if he drops the grenade when he lands on the floor then that's his fault for thinking he should run at the big bone crushing guy with a grenade in his hand.
>>81241751
>Batman doing what most superheros do makes him interesting
Yeah, no.
Snyder put way too much shit into this movie and nothing gets ample time to be developed. Yes, you can pinpoint reasons for all the shit that happens, but it all feels half-realized. This stuff would be more interesting and less annoying if they'd been explored with any kind of depth.
No, I don't want shit explained. No one should want that. I just want it utilized in a way that feels satisfying.
>>81245475
You do realize that any sort of sherlock Holmes story fits batman? which is why he's the easiest one to do stories about
Agree. Post your favorite, non-killer Batman.
>>81242899
Is Darkseid wearing fucking jeans with a belt?
>>81255906
I fucking love non-lethal electric hit and runs
>>81255963
The electricity sends the pedestrians to the sides at the same distance as if the car was still, but even so, i do extra job playing the game: i never run over people, nor fight them in the roads.
>>81241751
You are objectively wrong.
>>81242693
I won't argue with you on that.
>>81253433
Majority of polls for people coming out of the movie said "It was ok", next highest was "it was good" then "it was bad."
It was like any other decent comic/action movie. Niggas overreacting to shit.
>>81252207
>it could have been so much worse.
I was on the fence about seeing this in theaters. I think you sold me.
>>81250884
>He doesn't kill but he beats the shit out of them to point where they might as well be dead.
that's kind of the point of why the rule is interesting
no one is saying the no-kill rule is an absolute good thing
>>81242152
This may be true, but the film did nowhere near enough to make this clear. It's just
>sees robin costume
>sees batman killing people
>"huh, I guess he totally snapped then".
>MARTHA
>"oh so now I guess he's un-snapped"
Not killing people has been central to Batman's character for decades. A story where something causes him to abandon his code merits its own production, you can't just handwave it and expect people to not be pissed.
OP's completely right though, Snyder doesn't get any of the characters. Superman just floats around being a Jesus metaphor without doing anything to earn the comparison, Batman is Nicholas Cage in Kickass, and Lex Luthor is Cesar Romero's joker.
>>81252948
No-kill code was implemented years before CCA
I'm mostly Marvel, so this assumption might be on false pretenses, but when I watched "The Death of "Superman Lives" Burton was attributed to many of the dark and macabre changes that were subsequently mirrored in the comics/cartoons.
Maybe Synder thinks he is capable of doing the same. Complete conjecture.
>>81243586
>Batman choosing "not to save people"
Guess he plays favorites
>>81241994
The other movies didn't attempt to explore the characters at their depths or present a clash of ideals.
BvS kind of falls flat because Batman in BvS isn't really any better than Superman. Batman trying to chastise Superman just has much less weight to it when Batman's bodycount is likely much higher than Superman's. Compared to if Batman hadn't killed anyone, at which point he might have had some actual leverage.
But as things stand, his best argument was basically "T-those aliens followed you here! T-they wouldn't have c-come here if y-you hadn't have!" and "Y-you might one day decide you don't l-like humanity! So d-don't mind me trying to murder you for it!" even though Superman by this point ought to have saved far more lives than Batman have, while not having killed anyone not counting the collateral damage that Zod caused.
While Batman just rides in the Batmobile killing about 20 people like it's nothing. Just another day hunting criminals. Just branding the mother fuckers who survived with the Bat death-sentence insignia.
The movie is primarily from Batman's perspective. And though they hint at Superman having done good deeds ever since he came out as Superman, they did a very poor job ever presenting Superman as a respectable figure as opposed to a figure of fear. But if you actually listen to what's said and the details of what has been shown then Batman is still a fucking ass that gets people killed left and right with no respect for law or order, while Superman is basically a saint hasn't done anything wrong even though people are afraid of whether or not he might.
And that conflict is just so much, much weaker than if Batman was actually for the most part infallible, with Batman chastising Superman in spite of Superman being a respectable hero. And Superman chastising Batman for his methods, in spite of them not getting people killed. It would have been so much better, for both characters, and the movie at large.
>>81256761
Batman was getting dark for decades before BurtonBat, he just made it mainstream
Snyder is just doing what he always does, superficially copying comic panels he thinks looked cool while missing the substance that made the works he copies great
>>81256761
keep in mind that Watchmen and The Dark Knight Rises, the key comics that people point to when delineating the start of the Dark Age, were released 3 years before BurtonBat
>>81256810
Fair enough. Like I said i'm really in no point to argue. Burton did add a tidbit though saying something about he would have been lambasted were the internet the way it is today.
>>81252900
>liberal doesnt like something
>cries about racism, homophobia etc then compares it to hitler
shoo shoo
>>81256842
probably
Batman was still campy Adam West to the mainstream before Burton, couldn't have gone over well
>>81256850
you could've included the fact that he thinks Miller Batman came after BTAS
Born unto themselves
Angry again, angry again, angry ow
Then I started seeing "bad omens" in my head
Man still has one belief
Angry again, angry again, angry ow
No time for questions
Vengence is mine
Set the ball a-rollin
Used to control and command
Possibly I've seen too much
Engaged in a war
Run for cover, run
Man still has one belief
Angry again, angry again, angry ow
No time for questions
>>81256789
>And though they hint at Superman having done good deeds ever since he came out as Superman, they did a very poor job ever presenting Superman as a respectable figure as opposed to a figure of fear.
Fucking this.
It made it so much less impactful when after a whole movie of him being treated like a theat and barely saving anyone on screen, we're supposed to believe he was a beloved symbol of hope.
Just like how we're supposed to accept that Batman's abandoned his moral code without ever showing why.
You know, it's kinda funny that a film that does such injustice to the characters also seems to rely on the audience being familiar enough with the source material to fill in the gaps themselves.
>>81241994
You forget this Batman is based on Frank Miller's "The Dark Knight Returns". We get an older Batman coaxed out of retirement, and who's more than willing to kill.
Was it Screcrow's fear gas in those grenades that Bats shot at Superman?
>>81257020
>We get an older Batman coaxed out of retirement, and who's more than willing to kill.
Except even Frank Miller's Batman avoids just mowing people down. He doesn't even kill the joker.
Not to mention TDKR makes it very clear why Batman is out of retirement doing what he does.
>>81257060
Kryptonite gas.
>>81257093
But he said "that's fear you inhale" or something. Man, I thought I was clever.
>>81252948
When you incorporate it and it becomes part of the character in several major arcs then it becomes an indispensable trait of the franchise/character. Like the rogues code or superman flying etc
>>81257114
Yeah, that was just Batman being Batman.
>>81241994
Stop giving that man a free pass. Batman shouldn't mow people down with his vehicles.
>>81257615
>
He only killed 6 people, and its clear in the movie he has only been killing for 18 months and stops doing it b y the end of the movie.
>people are actually defending murderbat
>>81256719
Snyder just like to throw stuff around without a lot of thought which is a horrible habit for a storyteller. Also, if any other studio or director had put out a movie like this, people would be pissed beyond their minds (see the recent fantastic four movie), but don't ask me why people are so lenient with Hack Snyder.
>>81241751
>Batman not killing is why he's so interesting.Batman is not interesting.
>>81257648
Those things are slightly implied during the movie and never explained why. He started killing because Supes battled Zod in Metropolis? What's the connection? It baffles me how little is shown to us through actual dialog. Also "I killed only 6 people, but I'm better now" is a shit argument. The movie is horrible and the need for a defense force only shows it.
>>81243586
He straight-up runs people over with the batmobile and guns people down with the batwing. STOP LYING! God dammit!
The only thing that could have saved DCEU is if batman had gotten his own franchise and the rest of the universe was made without him in it. Batman's mix of insane popularity and significantly darker tone makes him a miasmic, noxious influence on the universe and forces it to mold to batman. this isn't justice league's batman, this is batman's justice league.
just like i'm grateful the goddamn x-men are separated from the MCCU Batman needs to be removed from the DCEU because it's already swallowing it whole
>>81252430
>All those questions raised
Probably the mark of a great movie.
>>81257114
He just meant fear of being vulnerable. If it was fear gas Supes probably would have been tripping the fuck out and they would have used their CGI budget to see him watching his mom burn alive while Batman punches him in the face.
>>81257663
>Batman
>Muh DC Universe
>>81241751
If they are indeed adapting under the red hood for the Batman solo movie, then I'm really glad they went with Batman killing.
Seriously, just imagine the final confrontation between Red Hood and Batman. It will be freaking awesome and Batman will have a better argument this time.
>>81257815
>>81257910
saved
>>81242889
You deserve this shitty movie. Go gobble down more Snyder crap.
>>81241751
>Batman not killing is why he's so interesting
You made me quit on the first sentence. Good job, OP
>>81242826
stop being a faggot and gtfo /co/
I feel that we need a Charles Bronson Death Wish style triology with Batman.
A shit aspect in the comics is still available shit aspect in the comics.
Batman no-kill rules always was bullshit.
And anyway it was a TDKR adaptation.
>Batman is a straight-up murderer who is completely at ease with branding criminals knowing that the brand is a death sentence in prison
Worst Batman we've ever seen.
Granted, Affleck gives it his all but it’s the character on the page that’s utterly despicable.
In Snyder’s hands, Batman seems like nothing more than a sophisticated thug with a fancy set of toys.
>>81255906
I'm pretty sure I killed people in Arkham Asylum when I knocked them off ledges into some of the pits that went on for well over 30 feet.
>>81241751
When did Batman kill? Other than the dream I can't think of a time he killed
>>81250918
Nice bait
>>81257897
But then what would his argument be? I didn't kill The Joker because eh, I'll get around to it?
>>81241751
Nope. I prefer when Bats kills the scum he did in the film.
>>81245947
He drops the Batmobile onto a man's neck.
>>81241751
>comics fan going full autistic blog rant over something that has repeatedly happened in movie for the past thirty years
By all means, illuminate us how this is somehow the first and worst time it's ever happened. I shiver in anticipation of your razor sharp wit and not muh Batman shitposting
>>81252900
That's pretty accurate, though, except that people still put ASBAR and TDKSA in the same boat as TDKR and Year One, as though the former weren't written by a psychopath, instead of a competent artist.
>>81243116
>What many people miss is that if Batman doesn't have a no-kill rule, then there is zero reason for any of his enemies to be alive.
Between 1989 and 2012, only Riddler, Hathaway Catwoman, Schumacher Bane (?), Freeze, Ivy, Scarecrow and Ledger Joker survive, and three of them are in the same kiddified to the max movie. Meanwhile in the same time period Nicholson Joker, Penguin, Pheiffer Catwoman, Two-Face, Big Guy Bane, Talia and Ra's al Ghul all die, speak nothing of the henchmen. Just because Batman kills during fights as self defense it does not mean he goes around assassinating people. If they go down non-lethally, with massive crippling beat downs, great. There is no reason to think Arkham is a revolving door in movies, which in itself lowers the need to murder big name villains.
>>81241994
>>81242290
>>81242361
>>81242475
>>81242537
>>81242614
>>81242680
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kscfb9XzPs
>i s-sure showed them
I want /tv/ faggots to leave
>>81242680
>>81242614
>>81242613
>>81242290
>>81242475
>>81242537
>>81242537
>>81242475
>>81242606
>>81242290
>>81242614
>>81242680
>>81242613
ITT: faggots who can't simply see this as a different version of Batman
There's been plenty of Batmen, in films, comics, cartoons, and games. This is just another version of him. Like many other characters.
>>81260772
>Just because Batman kills during fights as self defense it does not mean he goes around assassinating people.
Was dragging that car really necessary?
And lol yeah, okay, Joker, Freeze, Bane, etc. will go down non-lethally when random thugs won't.
>>81254319
Batman is one of the first superheroes to do it. Most heroes bend their principles but Batman holds onto it.
>>81258467
>Granted, Affleck gives it his all but it’s the character on the page that’s utterly despicable.
HE
IS
THE
VILLAIN
IN
THE
MOVIE
The only time batman explicitly kills people in the movie is during that weird dream where he's fighting superman's army. He later fires at and crashes into vehicles which causes explosions, but I'd put that down to sloppy direction, rather than Batman intentionally killing people.
>>81249083
>People will accept that Marvel movies are nothing like the tone of the comics they're based on
Shut your stupid fucking mouth.
>>81242854
Not Bruce Wayne
>>81242753
Ra's al-Ghul didn't actually die, hence "have I Robin"?
>>81242680
>>81242614
>>81242537
>>81242475
>>81242290
And these are literally from the first year of the character's existance. Add Red Monk and this isn't even a significant amount.
Nice try, idiot.
>>81261292
>gets shown evidence that Batman has killed before in different versions
>shows video of Batman's shitty 'it'd be too easy' reasoning for why he doesn't kill
Why are Batfags being so delusional about this?
>>81256719
>not killing people central to his character
>kills in his original appearence
>kills in the movies
>kills in the vidya
>>81261680
>Was dragging that car really necessary?
It took out one of the cars when he swung it with the batmobile, didn't it?
>>81241751
Batman is interesting cause he's an adolescent wish-fulfillment power fantasy. Everybody wants to drive a cool car jump across rooftops and fuck Prime Kim Basinger.
The whole no-kill rule is pointless anyway. It was a byproduct of DC's self-censorship in the 50s where they toned down all their books cause Wertham was all up their assess over stupid shit. Then some Geoff Johns of the 60s was anal in his OCD enough to give an in-story explanation for why Batman never kills. The so called There Always Another Way spiel. It's all fine and dandy but over the years it was just an excuse for Superman and Batman to go around acting high and mighty over other heroes for "not finding another way". But you see, it's easy for Superman and Batman to have a no kill rule when the writers will NEVER put Superman or Batman in a situation where they have no choice but to kill. In comics no one is ever going to even accidentally get killed by Batman. You know, like slip off a rooftop and plummet to his death while running away from a potential life in a wheelchair after a vicious beatdown from a delusional aristocrat. Joker is never gonna get the upper hand on Batman to the point where Batman is in a kill or be killed situation. He "always finds a way". But, it's easy to find a way, when you have your own personal angels in the outfield making sure you get to keep your angelic hands clean. It's a luxury that other less iconic characters don't have. Even Wonder Woman, who's pretty iconic herself, had to kill, and then listen to two sanctimonious jerks give her the riot act over it. Remember Max Lord? Wonder Woman had no choice. But, if Batman was in that situation, you can bet your sweet ass that Rucka would rip reality asunder and rebuild it in a way that Batman would find. A. Way. It's a fucking cheat and has no weight no matter how much Mark Waid or some other faggot spergs out about it like a 4-year old.
>>81265155
Now, I have no problem with Batman and Superman not killing in comics. I just wish they'd shut the f*** about it. It's easy holding sermons and flinging shit from your high ground when the stakes will never be high enough to do the hard choice.
As far as Batman killing in BvS. I was taken aback when it happened the first time cause I knew the Man of Murder bunch was gonna have a field day, but that's the thing about the difference between comics and movies. Comics are a static medium where Superman can always have a thought balloon saying that the building he smashed a villain through was empty. There's no time in a movie for Superman to narrate this shit in his fight with Zod. It's too fast and he's barely keeping up. And it's easy for Batman to never use lethal force cause in a static medium you can interpret the flow of time too make it look like Batman gets to handle shit with out snapping a neck. Dodging bullets is impossible no matter how much martial arts you mastered. But it works in comics. And again, he'll never be in a situation where there's like a 100 guys with machine guns about to mow down a 100 babies. Good luck handling that without lethal force. But, Batman will never have to find out, cause the writers will protect him from that.
>>81263091
He also wore costumes like these before
Does that justify its use on screen?
No
>>81265339
>Does that justify its use on screen?
Yeah. Why wouldn't it?
>>81265155
>>81265187
You can fuck right off with your lame ass excuses for that piece of shit movie.
Didn't have a problem with batman killing, it made for great action.
Can understand hardcore comic fans being butthurt, tho.
>>81264703
Couldn't he have done it any other way?
>>81265448
Like shooting it with the batmobile guns?
>>81265482
Yes?
>>81255946
He's possessing Dan Turpin's body.
>>81241751
Soon.
>>81258455
It's not bullshit. It's an essential part of superhero mythology.
And this clearly wasn't a TDKR adaptation, no one ever said it was.
![4065113-2215848232-batma[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/0aPHsOI.gif "4065113-2215848232-batma[1].gif")
>>81241751
>>81249010
>this adaptation is so bad i'll just call it an elseworld and pretend it isn't bad
>>81258471
Bottomless pits aren't murder. Neither is quick sand, giant boulders, or moving spiked walls.
>>81256789
Isn't it literally the point that Batman is no better than Superman? He's paranoid and hypocritical, like Batman tends to be.
>>81266013
No that is not the point of the characters. They are supposed to be fun and inspirational, not paranoid hypocritical psychopaths who feel no joy about being a a superhero.
>>81264595
> let me just ignore 70 years of his history becausr I've never read Batman comics
/co/ gets really obnoxious when it discovers something, like how "elseworld" was thrown around a lot when Gods and Monsters came out
>>81250704
That scene was so good.
>>81266013
>Batman is no better than Superman
Generally speaking, sure. But not completely.
I mean, that is true. But Batman has very strict morals and other standards that makes him respectable in spite of his flaws. And in this aspect he is on even ground or even above many other DC heroes.
That's why people can look up to him despite his flaws. And that's why he can actually chastise other heroes on their morals and still have a foot on the ground.
Both Superman and Batman are supposed to have among the strictest and upstanding morals even if they are different ideals. This makes their arguments on morals actually mean something. They have different perspectives, and different ideals. Yet morally speaking they aren't too distant from eachother.
But Batman in BvS isn't really one to talk. It falls flat.
>>81266117
>No that is not the point of the characters.
It is in BvS.
>>81266212
Except for the part where he scared that cop so badly he almost blew off the other cops' head.
>>81266383
Not his fault the cop was a huge blubbering vagina.
>>81266273
I just realized how fucking weird is having your dead partners clothes on display.
Like if your gradma dies, you won't put her dress in a glass case and dispaly it in the kitchen. It's fucking stupid.
>>81268239
If I remember correctly, there was never supposed to be another Robin. And the suit was meant to be a reminder of that.
But then you know, there were more Robins anyway.
>>81265414
kek, where's that gif from?
