>>82035027
While I enjoy what Nolan brought to the character, he simply didn't get the characters.

His Bruce was not a tortured indivdiual. He was a pussy whipped disgrace of a man that was Batman for little bit then got dissapointed he couldn't pawn his position off on Harvey Dent and spend his life with Maggie Horce Face Gyllenhal.

His Alfred fucking left him after his first outing as Batman after a prolonged hiatus. He didn't come back at a later point. He didn't leave someone else in charge of looking after him. He just left. VERY UN ALFRED!

I think it's the best batman movie compared to the other films, but dark Knight is still a better overall film.

I recently rewatched the trilogy and, say what you will about zack snyder, he was right about the fight scenes were wonky as fuck, hitting an all time low in rises.

>>82035140
Literally none of that is true of Begins.

>>82035027
Those bats around him look cute and cuddly

>>82035027
I much prefer The Dark Knight, but I don't give a fuck about it "feeling like Batman" so w/e.

>>82036101
This. but still zack sucks at character development. better stick to stoic characters that seems better for zack

>>82036101
Everybody criticizes the TDK fight scenes (even though Begins' were pretty good)

>>82035140
>His Alfred fucking left him after his first outing as Batman after a prolonged hiatus. He didn't come back at a later point. He didn't leave someone else in charge of looking after him. He just left. VERY UN ALFRED!

Alfred did this in Knightfall, too. He was pissed at having to watch his surrogate son destroy himself.

>>82036101
>>82036752

I liked how the fight scenes were from the perspective of the mooks and were all short and choppy and claustrophobic and inscrutable.

It worked, but in the scenes that were more open, you just see how Nolan can't direct action. It's not only the fight scenes, it's action scenes in general. Like, I love the scene with Joker in the semi and Dent in the police van when the Batmobine comes out and shit, but I have to admit there is NO sense of spacial relationship and things just change position or having undefined positions and it's impossible to tell who is where in relation to whom. Things change direction for no reason and break the 180 degree rule. Batman intercepts Joker's bazooka by jumping in front of the van, only to be way ahead of the van in the next shot. The number of cop cars following the van keeps changing.

>>82035027
>This was easily the best of the trilogy.

Been saying this for a while

>>82039121
What Nolan lacks in coreography of fights, though, he makes up for in storytelling. A lot of action movies make the mistake of making fight scenes just stupid interruptions of the plot before the story resumes. Nolan's fight scenes have a lot of storytelling and character and weight in them, even when they are obviously sloppy.

Like, when I talk about fight scenes furthering the story and not just being interruptions, a good example is the difference between the fight scenes in The Matrix and The Matrix 2. In the first one, the fights have weight because their are stakes. We know how powerful the agents are, and Neo beating them is a game changer.

In The Matrix 2, we have that really cool-looking but incredibly dumb and boring fight scene between Neo and all the Smiths that doesn't seem to add anything to the story and has no weight, because nothing's really at stake and nothing in the story changes by the end of the fight.

Like, looking at the descent into desperation and futility in Batman during the first Bane fight is really gripping. It feels raw and real, even when Bane is doing dumb shit like that spin-punch thing. The second fight is great, too, with Batman being back and pissed and Bane trying to hide his panic. But it's still not an easy fight for Batman, and there's that awesome moment where he gets pinned to the pillar and just dodges as Bane destroys it. By the end of it, I don't care how dumb Batman sounds when he's screaming "WHERRRRE'S THE TRIGERRR," it's just an awesome moment when Bane is totally in shock that Batman could had come back and wrecked him, the way his arms are up when he's on the floor like he's pleading.

>>82035140
Nolan's Batman is more the O"Neil/pre-Miller Batman than the post Miller you're used to. O'Neil's Bruce was not a "tortured individual". He was a sexually active, mostly well adjusted human, not Miller's stunted child. Nolan's Batman takes a bunch of cues from 70's/early 80's Batman, but none of you so-called Batman fan know anything before Miller besides Adam West and some golden age panels

>>82036673
Yeah, I don't get this "it's a good movie, but not a good BATMAN movie, so I don't like it!"

A good movie is a good movie, IMO. I don't get the attitude that superhero films shouldn't transcend genre tropes and should follow a specific form and have to have all the more fantastical elements.

Not only that, but I don't agree with the idea that it "doesn't feel like Batman." It's Batman as fuck. You have themes from The Long Halloween and The Killing Joke. Batman's already established, so you have all the Batman elements that only came at the end of the previous film, like the Bat-signal and everything. It has crime fiction elements, like Batman comics have had for a long time. The first film's whole first act was this far-east ninja thing which one could say wasn't very Batmany, if one had a narrow definition of "Batmany" (I mean, audiences who only knew the last film series would had seen that first trailer with some bearded guy and these monk mountains and then it ends with "Batman Begins" and they would had been like, "WTF? Batman is a guy in a big city with gadgets and shit, what's this Mongolia stuff?" because of course most people have never read "Blind Justice" or Shaman" or "The Man Who Falls").

I think some people just think that Nolan deciding to go for a grounded route was a repudiation of less realistic interpretations, when it wasn't. It was him choosing a direction for this particular interpretation of the character to make a cohesive film with a consistent universe. You have to make some decisions when distilling 70 years of history and reinterpretations into a film that works self-sufficiently. That doesn't mean less realistic versions are bad or "silly."

>>82039287
I would argue that this Wayne was a mix. There is a lot of influence from the '70s O'Neil/Addams stuff. But there is some influence from the Miller stuff (lots of Year One), and he's still portrayed as someone who has emotional trauma and anger and psychological issues, he just finds a way to turn them into a weapon for good, and doesn't go into the "I brand criminals and take glee in fucking people up" deep end. He's fucked up, but in a nuanced way, not in the super-repressed way of say, Morrison's pastiche of repressed uber-masculine heroes in "Arkham Asylum."

>>82035027
best cape movie.

>>82035027
Batman Begins could have been the start of a DC Cinematic Universe, I think.

It had a much more stylized tone, though still realistic, than The Dark Knight or Rises did.

The Batmobile chase is still one of my favourite scenes in any superhero film.

>>82039450
I get what you're saying but I think the issue people have with The Dark Knight is that Gotham is much less of a stylized city than it was in Begins. It's just Chicago, basically.

>>82039732
Rises was the most unrealistic for me.

>>82039843
I'm still baffled at how Nolan considered the CIA prologue to be the best thing he ever shot in his life.

>>82039777
Tru (noice digits, too)

Yeah, I think they could had done more to make Gotham look like its own city. It looked pretty cool in Begins. I think part of it is that Nolan and co. kind of treated each film like it's own thing in a way, and they thought that because TDK is more a movie about the city, kind of like this big ensemble-cast noir thing, it should look very "civic" and stuff, which it does.

But I still think they could had compromised between that and hearkening to the kind of claustrophobic, grimey qualities the city had in Begins.

>>82039898
In terms of the actual story, yeah, it's a dumb and awkward scene (it adds nothing to the story, as Bane's whole reason for going on the plane was "finding out what Dr. Pavel had told you," except he finds out nothing; there's a million other stupid things about the scene that have been pointed out), but in terms of just mechanics and cinematography, it is pretty breathtaking, considering that Nolan prefers in-camera effects and stunts and only likes to use CGI to fix up real photography. Like, he actually had a fucking plane and all that shit is real. Of course, when they dropped the plane, they used dummies for the actors so that Carcetti could live. They used miniatures for some things, I think, but everything in that scene is some sort of actual camera work rather than something just crafted in a computer.

>>82039898

I liked it. It was a decent villian reveal, villian establish, and villain reversal.

The "dismantle a plan mid-flight to fake a death of someone you kidnapped" was a new one.

And it was just before "Villain plan requires him to be captured" became almost a cliche in the following years. And it was used with less plot importance than the others.

Sure later on "But wait..." Logic set in on further rewatches, at the time in the theaters? Mad hype.

>>82040120
>>82040096
The thing is, he said that years after the movie came out and Baneposting was still getting stronger and he didn't think to look at the scene in another way?

>>82040205

Honestly there isn't much wrong with the scene. It's easily a 9/10, even a 10/10.

Only real bad part is

>Really painful
>big guy
>4u

>>82040120
True, most of the shit wrong with the scene, I didn't think about on the first watch.

Except for the "switching the blood" thing. That just made me go, "wtf, you expect me to believe that he can somehow swap every ounce of blood in each person?" Like, it's not even a "suspend your disbelief" thing, it's just "what are you doing"

And also, I thought that the fact that Littlefinger didn't actually throw the guys out of the plane was an indication that he was bluffing about only putting one of the mercenaries on the flight plan. Yet Bane is like "they'll expect one of us in the wreckage." If Littlefinger was lying, they'd expect ALL of you, tho.