Let's talk about the fight. Ignore the rest of the movie, just tell us your opinion of the 15 minutes where Batman and Superman fight each other.
Did you like it? What do you think about how it was done? Do you think the scene was written such that both characters could shine? Did you like how it started, played out, and ended? What didn't you like?
Would you have changed something and if so what?
>>82029728
It was by far their worst confrontation outside of the comics.
>>82029728
I myself just saw the movie. Personally I don't think there was anything wrong with it. I did like the reasoning behind it.Being a momma's boy myself, I can respect that kind of motivation in a man which is why I specifically loved his reaction when he came after Zod back in MoS. Was it Zod? It was Zod right. And I think we all saw a little bit of the Superman everyone knew and loved where he was still willing to go forward and try to talk it out.
Either way, I think there was some nice back and forth between the two so no one needed to feel like things had been too OP.
>>82029768
nah, that first nu52 cartoon of Justice league was worse
>>82029789
Justice League War right?
>>82029768
He got you there, Anon. That fight wasn't shit.
>>82029728
It was great.
when the globes of the batarmor start crashing in superman faces and slowly getting rekt i was so happy. You could see Batman shitting his pants.
>>82029728
>15 minutes
It was 5 minutes. One of the shortest super hero movie fights that has ever been marketed as a big deal
>>82029728
made me feel low, which means it did its job
the way bruce physically treated clark like a catch was hilarious, the suit itself felt less like a mech and more like some sort of ...i don't know, extension of that. the way he had clark squirming like some fish was cool tooi would have seeded more anti batman sentiment throughout the movie, or otherwise make damn sure i build a subconscious desire to see them fight. i'm not sure about anything after that, but everything post death had an "up in the air" dreamy feeling to it, i also had the same vibe from the denouement that i've had from comics. that last frame, logically you know what it means but it felt like something else, even on second watch
>>82029819
Want a stretched out fight like Anakin vs Obiwan in Episode 3?
>>82029888
is that a question or a complaint? Not him but drawn out fights are pretty cool too. They have their place.
Not him by the way.
>>82029728
I don't know what people are bitching about all the time. It was one of the best fights (choreography) when it comes to capeshit.
>motivation
It was perfectly understandable
>beginning of the fight
That kind of bugged me. I feel like they should've found a better way to make Supes get into the fight. Instead, he just started fighting after trying to tell Batman twice what Lex was doing
>Do you think the scene was written such that both characters could shine?
It definitely allowed both characters to show off, if that's what you mean. I liked both of them
>Did you like how it ended?
I didn't like the "Martha" part. If they had done "HE WANTS TO KILL MY MOTHER!!!!", it would've been emotional enough in my eyes. I love my mom and that would've sufficed all day every day
>>82029728
I liked it. Shame they rushed the resolution with MUH MARTHA.
The dumb part where batman was punching him and then superman smirked and batman was like, "UH OH SCOOB!!" made me cringe
>>82029972
>hating the best part
>>82029968
You know what the funny thing is?
I did not fucking realize until that moment that...they have the same fucking name.
Huh. Anyway kudos to them for going with that. It was a stupid ending but still.
>>82029972
How was that dumb? He was literally finding out that his weakness was not a permanent one.
>>82030010
>How was that dumb? He was literally finding out that his weakness was not a permanent one.
Among other things, it was a complete tonal shift in the tone that deflated any of the weight it attempted to carry with the rest of the fight.
>>82029789
War was great for the Batman v Superman fight. It's the most realistic version of how that fight would go down. Batman getting slapped around while Superman doesn't even try
>>82029968
>I didn't like the "Martha" part. If they had done "HE WANTS TO KILL MY MOTHER!!!!", it would've been emotional enough in my eyes. I love my mom and that would've sufficed all day every day
Yeah, I feel like they emphasized the wrong part of that line. Like the film itself was missing the point with all the stupid flashbacks making sure you got that there mom's names are the same. I get the idea behind it, but it didn't seem to dwell on that aspect of it. It was like they were trying to create some crazy twist with a throwaway piece of boring trivia.
>>82030046
I dunno man, realistic doesn't always mean entertaining. I guess if you like one-sided shit like that sure but...
>>82030029
I dunno how else it could have been handled. The Kryptonite was going to wear off sometime. He was going to have to find out eventually that his punches were no longer a factor. I don't see how else that could have been handled better.
I didn't like that Batman didn't do pic related to Superman with a kryptonite knife or dagger or just some kind of blade. Even saying the same line. The spear and grenades were dumb.
Should have had krypto brass knuckles and a krypto coating over his armor. After dishing out a beating he would stab him like in the pic. Clark would drop, very close to fainting, but then he would think of his mother and of what Batman has done, all the things that have been going on recently. He would get really bloodboilingly mad and still get up grabbing Batman by the throat and lifting him with trouble. Bats would deal heavy punches struggling to free himself, and while they visibly hurt Superman, he's too angry to let go. Batman keeps squirming and punching while Clark starts crushing the outer part of the armor's neck more and more. Bruce lands a couple more desperate, panicky punches before realizing he's done for.
At that moment, as a last resort, he would utter a word that triggers the heavy grenade launcher mounted on his plane that has been hovering a mile or two away. 5 seconds later the area is covered in a huge kryptonite cloud with Clark succumbing to a seizure/asthma attack. Bruce would struggle on the floor recovering from that brutal throat grip, still shaking all over because Supes really had him and was close to ending him.
>>82030059
The Dark knight returns was the best Supes v Bataman fight but it was good to see Batman get his shit pushed in for once
>>82030084
There are several ways that could've been done creatively without going for an easy gag. Batman is a tactician so he should've had a contingency plan for that. Him finding out in that moment that kryptonite isn't permanent made him come off like a goofy meathead and then Superman's smirk made him come off like some petty shithead that was beyond reason.
>>82030128
>Batman is a tactician so he should've had a contingency plan for that.
I like that Batman isn't perfect.
>>82030153
Yeah, that's fine, but he didn't come off as just a guy who made a mistake. They made him look like an idiot. It was a shitty and cheap way to try and shift the momentum to superman
>>82029728
i didn't like it honestly. i expected bat-mech vs superman but it was just glorified knight armor. the animated movie did it better. trinity vs doomsday was far superior.
>>82030128
He did. It was called another grenade. I mean, like >>82030153 said he isn't perfect so it's good that he didn't see it coming but he was also smart enough to not bank on it being the only time he got weak, which is why he slammed him with another as soon as he got the chance to.
And the whole superman smirk thing, I really don't know what to tell you about that. It's his first time dealing with that crap, I would think he's allowed a little victory for realizing it's something he can overcome. I dunno man I'll just agree to disagree on this one. I never had a problem with lighthearted stuff in more serious moments.Then again I watched the movie drunk.
>>82030243
I don't have a problem with the lighthearted stuff either. It just really felt out of place in this particular moment. Also, my problem with the smirk is more that the whole reason Superman is even there is because he wants to reason with the guy. His mother's life is on the line and it made no sense for him to suddenly forget all that and just be like, "heh now it's my turn!" when fighting him isn't even the objective.
>>82030311
>His mother's life is on the line and it made no sense for him to suddenly forget all that and just be like, "heh now it's my turn!" when fighting him isn't even the objective.
Priorities kinda change the moment it became clear the other dude had a weapon that could depower you and is now actively trying to kill you. Superman being glad that he can actually come and fight back from the gas and hopefully disarm Batman quickly feels entirely believable under the circumstances. At that point you couldn't reason with Batman anymore until he was put down.
Superman was just a complete asshole the whole time. Movie starts with him smirking like a dick before speedblitzing that black guy through a bunch of brick walls. I mean jesus christ what the fuck man? if you are fast enough to tackle him before he can shoot, you are also fast enough to just grab his arm/hand/gun and pull it away from her.
But no. He probably killed that guy with that little stunt and he smirked before doing it. Fucking psycho.
Than after the bomb blows up during the hearing I expected him to break down among the flames in utter shock, eyes wide open, looking around, realizing what just happened, crying, screaming. But no, he just stood there looking annoyed like he just remembered that he left the milk out of the fridge.
Then there was the part where he lets Batman crash into him and says the Bat is dead consider this mercy. Dude! WTF?! Does this guy really cause such a giant blip ojn your radar? There are so many terrible things going on at any given moment and that's what you chose to pursue? Because you won't have vigilantes running around? Isn't that what you are doing? Or at least should be doing because there wasn't too much saving/helping from you aside from that 60 second montage they put in just to silence those people who complain about him not saving people. Well guess what that's not enough.
God I hated him in BvS. I started out rooting for Supes because he's fucking Supes! But I just couldn't. Fuck him.
Batman vs mercs was the superior fight in the movie.
Can't say I liked the Bat vs Supes fight that much, felt a bit too short. Also made Superman look like too much of a bitch the entire time, but I guess it's more enjoyable if you're a Batfag.
>>82030515
>>82030494
Just didn't come off like relief. It felt like he was being arrogant.
>>82030555
>Superman look like too much of a bitch the entire time
What?
Superman was fighting while poisoned with K and still was kicking Batman's ass for most of the fight, the altar of sacrifice part is the only part where superman looks hopeless and that makes batman look bad.
>>82029728
I wasn't feeling it to begin with because this was all happening because of a misunderstanding and a lack of communication instead of it being a clash of different ideals but let's put that aside
I guess visually it was okay. There were many scenes that I thought were quite impressive in the action department but I could tell, and I think the audience could too, that once Batman hit Supes the Kryptonite gas, it was pretty clearly not going to be a particularly complex fight.
>>82030090
You're a retarded faggot and I'm glad you'll never write movies
>>82030721
Whatever makes you sleep at night. :^)
A good fight scene does not a good movie make. I can't just ignore the rest of the movie and focus on a15 minute fight scene, minute fight scene, driven by and solely serving a visual purpose, without a narrative goal up until MARTHAAA.
The entrie fight was just Batman and Superman taking turns throwing each other into a building for like 15 minutes. It was probably the worst fight scene in the movie.
>>82029728
The speaker blast triggered my tinnitus to flare up again.
Fuck you Goyer.
>>82029728
It was kind of a boring fight, and it only lasted 5 minutes at that.
And Batman smashing a sink over Superman's head was hilarious, as was Batman swinging Supes through the pillars.
>there's no way he would shoot ANOTHER canister of kyptonian gas at me
>he does
I don't hate the 'Martha' thing. I never realized Supes and Batmans mothers shared the same name. Is Martha supposed to be a common name like Adam or Mr Smith in the old days, i don't know. I don't think this has been used in the comics either.
It was just executed badly to the point it became a meme.
>>82032827
Martha could've been a cute comment used for something else but all Supes really needed to do was say "Hey Bats, my mom is danger, wanna help?"
>>82029728
I'll try a logistics approach, why did Batman make three rounds and only carry a single shot launcher?
Why did he not have more than one way to deploy the gas, such as rigged into his armour or gauntlets?
Why did he leave the spear behind in the building forcing him to beat down sup's before finding a way to drag him through the building in order to finish him off?
Why did Superman not simply pick up bats and carry him off, away from the obviously prepared battleground, dump him back on the ground and yell at him?
I liked when Batman hit him with a toilet
>>82032858
>why did Batman make three rounds and only carry a single shot launcher?
I assumed there was only enough for three rounds after he made the spear.
But yeah, why did he have an under-barrel grande launcher when he didn't have a legit gun to put it under? Why not make a revolving, or pump launcher?
>>82032858
also the canister thing was fucking stupid in general
he planned on Superman just grabbing the fucking thing? logically, he would have avoided it and even it he didn't, it would bounce off his chest and away from him.
>>82029728
To be honest i don't think i liked it all that much
It wasn't energic, for the lack of a better word. It was just "Superman stands there while Batman beats the fuck out of him" only occasionally interrupted to become "Batman stands there while Superman beats the fuck out of him"
But it's not only that, i didn't find the confrontation enjoyable because none of the two had a good enough reason to fight. I felt sad about it instead. Everytime Batman (which had the upper hand most of the time) landed a good punch i wasn't going "FUCK YEAH" like apparently most people were, i was too busy thinking "but why, poor Superman"
>inb4 "that means the movie worked because you felt emotional about their fight!"
No, the two characters just came off as stupid. Only Superman was the "benevolent" stupid, he had the good intention of telling Batman to stop but apparently never really could for whatever reason, while Batman on the other hand was the maliciously stupid, with the whole thing that he couldn't tell he was being manipulated and just how bad he wanted to kill Supes just for being a bit too strong for the planet (do i have to assume he planned to kill WW too sooner or later because "SHE'S IMMORTAL, WHO'S GONNA STOP HER IF SHE BECOMES EVIL?")
>inb4 "he couldn't see Superman as human!"
He already imagined he had parents, he already imagined they were a somewhat functional family and that he was raised with false but hopeful promises, if that's not humanizing the figure of Superman i don't know what is
In the end i wasn't feeling bad for the characters, i was feeling bad for *the characters*, Batman and Superman didn't deserve such a dumb movie. Movies like Batman & Robin at least are fun in their goofiness, you don't feel like they're insulting
Batman using a sink to hit superman with was my real problem with this scene. He is wearing a robot suit with metal fists. Yet he chooses to use brittle ass ceramic as a weapon. Thats probably what bothered me most along with Superman giving up explaining the situation after ~30 seconds.
>>82029728
>the 15 minutes where Batman and Superman fight each other
Pretty sure it was five.
>>82033264
The suit apparently had no purpose other than to protect him
It wasn't good for punching, it wasn't heavy enough to slow him down, it didn't have any SCIENCE thingie to power him up or whatever...
He might as well have been naked
>>82033294
The metal has to be hard though. I'm not saying it needs a jet engine behind it the punch. But obviously the metal is HARD enough to protect him, that makes it a good hard weapon. Even serving as nothing more than a metal boxing glove, its still better than BRITTLE ass ceramic.
>>82029728
Why do I feel like OP is some guy working at WB?
>>82033412
The type of sink he hit him with are actually porcelain coated steel. Unless it's mounted in a counter or has a stand, pretty much all sinks are coated metal for durability.
>>82029728
It pained me to see Superman hurting, but I liked the part where he gets his strength back and Batman gets spooked.
>>82029728
Would have been better if 70% of it wasn't spoiled by the marketing
It looked like two ballerinas fighting. At no point did I get the impression that Batman was trying to kill Superman.
Which would fit with comic Batman but movie Batman seemed to kill people left and right.
I wasn't too bothered though. The movie was entertaining.
>>82033264
That shit was so ridiculous I couldn't believe it
I actually expected a cartoon BONK sound effect when he did it.
>>82032722
Posting superior armoured vigilante vs. raging titan fight featuring 100% less bathroom sinks and MARTHA:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FZKTC5C8vI
>>82033575
People had been waiting for that since the post-credit scene of The Incredible Hulk
AoU had problems but it was worth it
>>82029728
Was it even 15 minutes? I'm amused that autists are so butthurt by how short it was. They're all "B-but the movie is CALLED Batman v Superman!!! It should have been a bigger fight! False advertising!!"
I liked the fight, and didn't like it at the same time. They should have had Clark try to reason a little more. Maybe even constantly during the fight, and just make a point that Bats isn't listening to anything. Granted, to look at it from Superman's point of view, he's panicked and the clock is ticking. He tried to reason with Batman, who then spring TWO traps on him without even listening. This is one of the first times in Clark's life that he's felt helpless to protect someone he loves, so he's losing it a little bit. As far as he's come, he's still doing a job that has no instruction manual. It's easy for the audience to say what he "should" have done, but hindsight is always 20/20
The main reason I dislike the fight is because it's legitimately unsettling. It's brutal and dirty and it should be. It shows both men at their worst, but it makes everything that follows that much better.
Some people argue that they had no reason to fight. Those people are assuming that Batman is 100% in control of his actions (he isn't) and that Superman even wants to fight (he doesn't). Batman is psychotic and unreasonable at this point, and Superman's first instinct wasn't to fight at all, it was to ask for help. For all of his campaigning against and even threatening Batman, he knows that Batman is still a "good guy". Not once does he mistake him for a villain.
>>82030010
>I did not fucking realize until that moment that...they have the same fucking name.
Me too. All these years and it never crossed my mind. Probably because Bruce's mom is such a non-character. It's usually his father that gets talked about the most.
>>82030515
hey sometimes superman isn't smirking and being all nonchalant about shit.
There are times when he is fittingly dour like pictured...when he is helping save lives. I mean what a drag.
>>82034480
hi Zack :)
>>82029728
Way too short. I expected a long, drawn out battle where both parties would be totally exhausted by the end. After Superman gets hit with the second Kryptonite grenade it isn't even a fight anymore, just Batman wailing on an immobilized guy.
>>82029728
It was okay. There were parts that worked and parts that were pretty lame.
It was unintentionally pretty hilarious when batman smashed a sink over his head
>>82034820
Hi, Marvel-fag who was too stupid to understand my movie.
>>82034958
>a solid minute to have Batman walk across a room with a sink
>this was fine according to the editor, but any establishing shots or the Communion scene wasn't
>>82034978
hows does it feel to have made the worst capeflick of 2016?
>>82030742
Dont listen to him anon,i like it
>>82034746
>drag
>>82029728
Why a spear and why didn't Bats use it as a proper melee weapon during the fight? Was Bruce supposed to be Longinus or something?
>>82030515
>than after the bomb blows up during the hearing I expected him to break down among the flames in utter shock, eyes wide open, looking around, realizing what just happened, crying, screaming. But no, he just stood there looking annoyed like he just remembered that he left the milk out of the fridge.
God this part annoyed me. I know people will say:
>"hurrrr his super sense told him everyone was dead so he didn't need to look around"
But from a moviemaking perspective the scene would've been 100x more effective if he actually looked distressed/shocked about the carnage around him
I watched the movie a couple weeks ago and can´t remember this:
How does Batman (or Lex), know that kryptonite would weaken Superman?
It was never shown how they found out, or why they assumed it, right?
>>82035219
Lancelot? I don't know. I doubt Snyder does.
>>82030128
>Batman should have kicked his ads harder and been more of a brass
We get it you're a batfag
>>82034480
>it's legitimately unsettling
>>82033575
I definitely appreciate this scene a lot more now.
>>82035322
Lex found out when he tested it on Zod's corpse.
>>82035322
Lex knows because it wore down Zods skin when his body was experimented on.
There is literally no line of authority explaining how Batman knows though.
>>82035470
>>82035442
Thank you, kind sirs.
>>82034480
Sounds to me like that's just them writing themselves into a corner.
>Oh in our Universe Superman couldn't have pulled Zod away from the fight, cause Zod kept pulling him back.
Why not? Is Zod writing the script? Make up some reason why Supes could or just write them fighting somewhere else. Internal Logic is good and all, don't get me wrong. But using it to avoid showing culturally established characters being themselves is idiotic. Especially cause they could've done both.
It's like making a New Testament movie and have Jesus turn the vinegar they gave him while carrying the cross into wine, because they think that if he can turn water he can turn vinegar too. It's a disservice to the character and everyone invested in him, and is missing the whole point of why the character is relevant in the first place.
>>82035345
Most probably Longinus, you know the guy who stabbed Jesus with a spear.
>>82033575
Saw BvS for the first time yesterday and was about to post that the fight was alright, if a little slow and gimmicky. After re-watching this though, jeeesus Snyder. No contest.
>>82035470
Doesn't batman get files from Luthor?
I... I can't believe I just defended something from that movie.
>>82035646
The not-so-evil guy who fought Arthur though. Superman being Arthur that later killed Mordred.
It's just pick-your-reference.
>>82035058
I dunno, civil war isn't out yet.
>>82029888
Anakin vs Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan vs Maul are the only reasons to ever re-watch the PT.
>>82035219
3 detectable reasons so far
>muh Longinus
>muh Excalibur (the final moments of Superman vs Doomsday were a literal recreation of the final fight in that movie between Arthur and Lancelot)
>muh Moby Dick (after all in the movie they call it an harpoon, which is a kinda specific name, not a spear. Or was it just our italian dub?)
Basically there's no good reason, just heavy-handed parallels to other, much better works and stories
>>82037827
It takes a man with a certain level of retarded hubris to make multiple direct visual references to Excalibur.
Zack Snyder wishes he could make something as whacked-out nuts as that movie.
>>82029813
I remember flashing a smile at this point. Both of them had perfect looks on their faces throughout all the punches.
>>82038315
>Zack Snyder wishes he could make something as whacked-out nuts as that movie.
All the practical effects and dialog should be repulsive to Mr Snyder.
>>82030515
>because there wasn't too much saving/helping from you aside from that 60 second montage they put in just to silence those people who complain about him not saving people. Well guess what that's not enough.
Very much agree. It applies to MoS, too. He saves his classmates and the rig workers, and that's it before he goes to war with Zod. This movie really needed to show regular people cheering for Supes, rather than looking in awe, to contrast and conflict with the doubt and fear of him. Less of 'He's a God' and more of 'He's a hero'.
>>82032827
>Is Martha supposed to be a common name like Adam or Mr Smith in the old days
Well, yes. Like Martha Washington. Martha Stewart.
>>82035219
The spear was the standard infantry weapon from the founding of the Roman Empire, all the way to the Renaissance.
How's it not a proper melee weapon?
>>82029728
>Would you have changed something and if so what?
I would have preferred that when Superman perceives to have his powers again, instead of throwing away Batman and jump him full angry, He had tried to restrain him by holding his leg, asking him to listen for a moment ...
Batman, of course, had answered, fuck you, and detonated a second krypto grenade in his face.
>>82033575
As a Hulk fag I hated that IM had to win only because MUH Iron Man Disney bullshit.
>>82042379
As someone who hates both it was a lucky shot from Tony while Hulk was distracted.
>>82042379
>IM had to win
We have very different ideas on what a win is
Also, it was an Avengers callback to when Hulk sucker punched Thor
>>82042379
I liked that for once an Hulkbuster has busted a Hulk.
I was expecting a Widow hologram or some other ass-pull. This was good: he was regaining his senses and losing the will to fight, so IM helped him calm down.
>>82042379
Iron Man winning was karma for 60 years of non stop jobbing.
