I know this is old news, but I only just saw it after avoiding all the info I possibly could. I assume everyone here agrees with me on my thoughts below, but I might be wrong- I don't know. This is the thoughts of a low level cape fan.
I think Affleck does a great job as Batman, and I think all the tech and the look if it all is also very Batman. In that same vein, whoever played Alfred, while physically different, is spot on character-wise as far as I'm concerned. Great job with all that.
Why does Batman kill people? He has, quite literally, two rules. No guns, and no killing. I guess you could say that he's so skilled that he makes sure the bullets hit non-vital areas? And that he just hadn't heard about his brand being a death sentence? But that seems unlikely considering he's supposed to be really smart and whatnot.
Didn't expect to see Flash like that. Really neat. Didn't think that would be their overarching plot they'd be going for. Confused as to why it was a dream sequence though? And what was up with the bug stuff? What, can he make Bruce see the future now? and he has Dream powers or something?
I don't want to pretend to be an expert on Ma Kent but it pissed me off when she said he doesn't owe the world anything. Seems in my admittedly limited opinion that all she and Pa Kent ever taught Clark was about doing the right thing, even when it's hard, and all that jazz.
I really really really really really REALLY wish Wonder Woman looked amazonian or at the very least even remotely muscular.
I always thought Lex Luthor was supposed to be charming- so incredibly smooth and manipulative that he could successfully win a presidential campaign. AKA, not a crazy nutter who can't keep it together throughout a short conversation.
I still really don't enjoy all the Superman worship and all this god talk, and acting like he thinks he's better or above anyone, or that he's an alien- for christ's sake he grew up in kansas.
Anyway. That's it.
>>81994423
Snyder wants to be a deeper director and writer then he actually is and so throws a lot of themes together and hopes they just sort of mix on their own.
BvS didn't feel like an actual full script to me, it felt like parts of multiple scripts hashed together into one whole film without trying to make underlying themes between them link up or anything between them make much sense.
A lot of the lines and dialogue were cool sounding but weirdly placed and sounded like they said purely to sound cool (or show up in a trailer) rather then make sense or organically fit into narrative or existing dialogues well.
Oh also the whole "this means something" "It did on my world"
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUuuuuuuuuUUUUUUUUUUuuuuuuuuuuuuuuUUUUCKKKKK YYYYYOOOOoooOoooOUUUUUUUUU. Your world is EARTH. You were raised on EARTH by HUMANS. You are from KANSAS. Stop acting like you're some macho super cool alien guy who doesn't "get" humanity because you talked to the guy from Gladiator for like ten minutes.
>>81994510
I thought this exact thing when I heard the "do you bleed" bit. Same thing with like half of Lex's lines.
>>81994534
I don't mean to keep adding adendums, but I keep remembering stuff:
I did really like when Bruce actually did detective work and also invented stuff.
>>81994534
It's absurd how much this Superman considers himself a stranger to Earth, and it's even more absurd how Snyderfags keep saying that he's "literally Byrne's" since that one had an entire issue about how he doesn't relate at all to Krypton
Looks like a /tv/ review. Also you're a month late, no one cares about what you think.
Oh also his "I'll take you in without breaking you" thing-
What is Superman fucking Serpico now?
>>81994534
I can see where you're coming from on a lot of your complaints, but this one is straight up retarded. The whole Krypton vs Earth thing is an actual subplot in the movie. He's feeling like shit because people are starting to reject him, making him think he doesn't actually belong here like he thought. He goes back on this and doubles down on Earth when he literally says "THIS is my world" when he kills Doomsday.
>>81994851
That line felt like "Superman could be really hardcore if he wanted, guise!"
It's like Snyder was trying his hardest to make Superman not-lame. The "consider this mercy" moments, the way he fucked that single warlord, the sex, the fixation with the image of an angry Supes with burning eyes...
>The bat is dead, burrito
Of course Batman wanted to kill him, that's not something you say to ensure people you're not evil
>>81994423
>Ma Kent
>Pa Kent
>bad
Honestly, they want what's best for their son. They don't want him to feel like he absolutely needs to do what he does, like he's got some kind of moral obligation to aid mankind.
They want him to live life the way he chooses. The problem is that both movies kind of failed to establish that Superman was raised to be a really good person at heart, that doing good is inherently who he is, so that his stints as Superman? They're not out of an obligation thrust upon him. They're just WHO he fucking is.
They fucked up and focused on the worried parent-angle, something admittedly relatable, but they sort of coddled him too much.
What's funny is, in a way, they make Clark this naturally good kid from the get-go; someone who does want to do good, to help out, etc., because he knows he can and he cares a lot about people. The Kents are aware of Clark's selfless tendencies and try to downplay it out of fear of what might happen to him.
I mean, the ideas and concepts were there, but Snyder can't execute shit that doesn't involve punching. It's a damn shame because I actually liked what the Kents were trying to imbibe in Clark, but it was just so fucking sloppy that it came off as 'KILL THE KIDS CLARK' and 'FUCK EARTH'.
Also why is the "i thought she's with you" bit still in the movie when batman was chatting with her on his pc?
>>81995130
The epiphany comes out of nowhere tho, what happened to make Supes hopeful again? Batman deciding at the last minute not to kill him? Kissing Lois again made him feel funny? I mean, he was just witnessing just how much humans could hate him (Lex creating Doomsday), wouldn't that depress him even further? Also the "this is my world" part is kinda weird when he then precises "YOU are my world, Lois", kinda furthers the misconception that Clark is only interested in saving his relatives
ALSO, the fact that Superman thinks too much of himself as a Kryptonian isn't just a BvS "theme", that was kinda present in MoS too already, with the whole "on MY planet...", but these are subtlelties Snyder/Goyer isn't able to comprehend so i have to think that was yet another unintentional message
>>81994423
Batman is edgy because of the death of Robin.
Flash is all speedforce. Are the bugs you're referring to the parademons in the dream?
Ma Kent is right though. Superman does not save others based on obligation but on good will. He could just leave the Earth if he wanted to.
I didn't like the way WW looked either but it other than that she wasn't so bad.
Lex gets more unhinged as the movie goes on, finally reaching peak insanity in jail.
Superman doesn't think he's above everyone, that's just how people perceive him. That's why he's not happy while saving people; he just wants to be a normal guy with special powers who does the right thing.
>>81995772
>Batman is edgy because of the death of Robin.
I love that people still go on with this headcanon when Alfred specifically says it's Superman that's throwing Batman over the edge
You're all so eager to defend every little choice in this movie but you don't even know why
>>81995810
Well, well, well. Another person who didn't pay attention during the movie. Did you watch the movie or only hear it? If you watched it, you would have noticed that after the talk with Alfred Bruce looks at Robin's suit and the audience realizes that Superman wasn't the only one who made Bruce feel powerless. Superman, while also contributing to this feeling, was not the sole cause for it. Instead, it was what inspired Batman to come out of retirement. Tell me, if Robin had never died would Batman still consider Superman an enemy or another ally who just needs to be better trained with his power to not cause collateral damage?
>>81994423
>and acting like he thinks he's better or above anyone
But Clark doesn't act like that except to Bruce who is torturing people.
>>81996112
You forgot, dude. It's Snyder. That means is couldn't have a single subtle thought in it and that every single frame of the movie was fucking stupid.
In all seriousness it's going to get real tiring seeing the same shit reposted on here about this movie from a bunch of people literally too fucking dumb to catch anything that wasn't expressly spoken.
I'm not the biggest Snyder fan but the fact that people are either too blinded by their bias or just too fucking dumb to catch that stuff is baffling.
>>81994851
There is NOTHING wrong with that fucking line.
Lex JUST threw Lois off a fucking building and killed at least 30 people in the Senate bombing.
>>81995147
But the Mercy line made fucking sense considering how unmerciful Bruce is.
>>81995147
>Clark & Lois shouldn't have sexy sex IT'S NOT TRUE TO THE COMICS WAH WAH WAH!
>>81996112
>>81996196
>It's ok if the script is lacking, i can fill all the holes with my fanfic!
The problem with these theories is that it takes nothing for the next movie to "retcon" them. Until something is explicitly stated or properly implied (no, Bruce staring at Robin's suit didn't make me think "if Robin never died maybe he would be more eager to accept Supes") then it has no value outside of your mind that single-handedly made that connection
It's like how for example for years fans of MoS were stating that Superman was going to learn from his mistakes "on the first day" and then be a perfect hero in the sequel, while in reality he turned out to be still unexperienced as fuck
This isn't a post-modern white canvas where the artist can just go "oh, you see what you want to see", we're not discussing a poem, i shouldn't have to interpret a character's intention, this way every other idiot is watching a different movie, and even those who claim to like it end up discussing about which one's fanfiction is more right
>>81996196
>That means is couldn't have a single subtle thought in it
Ironic considering this is the most subtle and restrained Clark & Lois relationship in any life action incarnation, based off mutual trust and respect and not Lois drooling over him.
>>81996286
>It's like how for example for years fans of MoS were stating that Superman was going to learn from his mistakes "on the first day" and then be a perfect hero in the sequel, while in reality he turned out to be still unexperienced as fuck
False, he learned some things (such as fighting safer considering he took DD into space almost immediately) he just ran into trouble by not being communicative with the world.
>>81996306
Except Lois is a non-character in this movie other than "very good at investigating and gets saved by Supes a lot"
>>81996273
That's not what i said, but do keep posting random comic pages to show others don't know Superman as much as you do if it makes you feel better, you've been doing it for years already
>>81995182
They weren't concerned parents, they were randian mouthpieces making sure their son didn't serve the parasites.
>>81996411
>Implying I have even been on this site a year
>Implying you have any idea who I am and you are not just being paranoid
>Implying I care about what people think of my Knowledge of Superman and instead am not simply defending the fact that making Clark not lame IS A FUCKING GOOD THING!
>>81996621
I meant the plural "you", "you people", as in those in general that believe Snyder did nothing wrong
>>81996643
>I meant the plural "you", "you people", as in those in general that believe Snyder did nothing wrong
Oh he absolutely did some wrong things, just not any of that you listed.
>>81996286
>theories
The real problem here is that people forget that movies are also a VISUAL medium. This means that both dialogue AND what's on the screen is important. This isn't a book where all we have are descriptions and dialogue; we are able to see things for ourselves and come to conclusions based on those things. Everything was put there purposefully in order to convey meaning.
My so-called "theory" comes from dialogue itself if that's what you're looking for. "How many good men are left, Alfred? How many stayed that way?" This statement is directly caused by Robin's death. Now fan theory would be if I added Harvey Dent as Two-Face as another cause but I don't, even though it would make sense in this context, because there is no indication that Harvey Dent even exists in this universe. If Robin hadn't died he would literally be unable to say this point because he would have living proof right in front of him that would contradict him. I'm tired of spoonfeeding movies treating the audience as retarded, but this is the future you asked for.
One question for you. How would something be "properly implied" in a movie? Is it even possible at this point?
>>81997150
>One question for you. How would something be "properly implied" in a movie? Is it even possible at this point?
An easy example, imagine Alfred saying "not everyone can be saved" as a reference to all the dead in Metropolis. Then Bruce stares at the Robin suit and he goes "if i can't make sure they are, no matter the means, then these last 20 years were pointless"
The dialogue doesn't spell out "I'M MAD ROBIN DIED", but it would be clear enough
But with the scene we're talking about? I can make the connection, but only if i look hard for one, it doesn't come natural. But i guess this discussion, like most about the subject, it's pointless. I'll keep repeating X, you'll keep repeating Y
inb4 some joke about "lol im glad you're not a writer", it's an example
>>81997258
You know what, there's no reason to be hostile in discussions. I can see your point, but the truth of the matter is that audiences are too diverse nowadays. What may be easy to grasp for some is completely unfathomable for others. Even your example would be seen as too explicit for some and too implicit for others. I enjoyed this movie because every little point was clear to me, but maybe some people couldn't see it. I just think that having someone with the courage to even attempt subtly at this day and age is a step forward, even if it didn't work for everyone.
>>81995182
>The problem is that both movies kind of failed to establish that Superman was raised to be a really good person at heart, that doing good is inherently who he is
Literally the first time you see adult Clark he throws his life at the fishingboat away without a second thought when he notices that people need help at the oil rig.
>I don't want to pretend to be an expert on Ma Kent but it pissed me off when she said he doesn't owe the world anything. Seems in my admittedly limited opinion that all she and Pa Kent ever taught Clark was about doing the right thing, even when it's hard, and all that jazz.
Why is everyone so goddamn retarded about this. When Pa and Ma Kent both respectively say, in their own way, that Superman has no obligation to be a hero, they are echoing what the Els wanted on Krypton with Superman not belonging to their genetic caste system. The fact that no one ever tells Superman to be a hero makes his choice to be one all the more heroic.
You fucking idiots
as for the rest of your questions
>I always thought Lex Luthor was supposed to be charming- so incredibly smooth and manipulative that he could successfully win a presidential campaign. AKA, not a crazy nutter who can't keep it together throughout a short conversation.
Read comics, specifically older comics
>I still really don't enjoy all the Superman worship and all this god talk, and acting like he thinks he's better or above anyone, or that he's an alien- for christ's sake he grew up in kansas.
Its not that he is god, but that others VIEW him as a god for his power. Jesus christ on a stick why are you so fucking thick.
>>81998130
> Its not that he is god, but that others VIEW him as a god for his power. Jesus christ on a stick why are you so fucking thick.
Snyder wants you to know that Superman is god/Jesus. The messianic imagery around Superman is some incredibly in your face that its impossible to miss. This goes well beyond 'some people view him as godlike', its a major theme of the movie. Lex's entire plan against Superman is rage against God with Superman as his proxy, which is called out in dialog both in the painting scene and the release of Doomsday. And if you didn't already know that Superman was literally Jesus already, him dying on a hill full of crosses sort of rubbed it in your face.
Seriously, I haven't seen so many crosses thrown at me in a movie since End of Evangelion.
>>81998590
I wish it was only the crosses, he was even wrapped in his cape. And people have the bravery to call Snyder too subtle for the audience
>>81995147
>"Superman could be really hardcore if he wanted, guise!"
They were obviously billing up the knightmare future sequence shit to be injustice-esque, the hardcore superman confirmation is pretty essential for injustice to work.
>>81998807
>Snyder too subtle
I'm never gonna get this. Do normies get the film or not?
>>81998847
Oh good Superman is about to get worse by appealing to video game casuals.
By the time they do Crisis no one is going to care anymore.
>>82001219
Depends on what you mean with "get the film"
Did they get that Batman and Superman are friends now? Yes
Did they get why? No? Well, fear not, i have like a dozen different explanations that are SO OBVIOUS and TOTALLY aren't in conflict with one another, how come nobody guesses at least one? Fucking sheeps
>>81994423
Bump
>>82001606
I hope the opposite happens and video game casuals learn to love Superman.
