Just rewatched this on a trip. Why did Whedon think Memetron was a good adaptation? How do you butcher a character so bad?
>>81037666
anon, pls.
Memetron is old news. How about that piss Luthor tho? Talk about a splashy villain
>>81037666
OMELLETES
> watching AoU
> on LSD
that must have been a weird experience
>>81037666
I liked Memetron. Ultron usually sucks so I didn't mind a "butchered" adaptation.
>>81037666
I always thought he should've been based on the "Earth's Mightiest Heroes" version...just like the comics.
>>81037773
Why did Whedon want Ultron? I kind of figured that Avengers two would have like a masters of evil or something
>>81037666
>Memtron
To know nothing about Ultron do you
what memes did Ultron use, exactly? How does this nickname make any sense?
>>81037823
Apparently he likes Ultron, he wanted him to be the villain for the 1st Avengers movie but the studio wanted Loki.
>>81037773
Ultron is not Skynet
He has never Been Skynet
Ultron is an Angry child With laserbeams
AOU was much closer to the comics then Generic Doomsdaybot #2021
>>81037773
EMH is good, but it's not exactly emblematic of what Ultron is most of the time in the comics. The guy is pretty much Hank Pym without any of the empathy, warmth, and personal skills. I dunno where the assumption that he's always stiff, robotic and logical came from when the majority of his appearances hinge on the idea of "what if a robot were ABSOLUTELY FUCKING INSANE"
>>81037773
>EMH
>like the comics
Ultron is a megalomaniacal, pontificating "gas the dirty flash-bags" lunatic with daddy issues in the comics, not an off-brand Skynet.
It's cool that you like that version of the character but it's nothing like the comic version.
>>81037823
Because he clearly wanted a tell a story that pawned from internal conflict with the team, and Ultron is the best avenue for that.
>>81037666
Because Ultron is supposed to be a reflection of his father.
Having Tony create Ultron and NOT have him quip would be stupid.
>>81037773
I fucking hate people who complain about Quiptron and think that EMH was a good or faithful adaptation of the character.
>>81037938
>Pym exists in the MCU but let's just attribute the creation of Ultron to Tony so that we can have a reason for him to quip
>>81037666
>Why did Whedon think Memetron was a good adaptation?
because Ultron is a reflection of its creator. an Ultron made by Tony would naturally lack the raw hate of an Ultron made by Hank.
So we get an aggressive narcissist who doesn't know how to interact with people and compulsively cracks jokes to hide his insecurities, and who thinks the world would be just plain easier to manage if all those idiot humans got killed off.
>>81037773
please read more comics
>>81037666
We don't need a dark and edgy villain for a fun movie.
The jokes made him more human and keep the tone of the movie light.
I read Ultron as a Dalek 99% of the time
as other people itt said, dude's batshit
>>81037900
>Because he clearly wanted a tell a story that pawned from internal conflict with the team, and Ultron is the best avenue for that.
In a universe in which Hank Pym didn't create Ultron. In other words, Original Character is the best avenue, but we'll call him Ultron anyway.
>>81037985
Pym was off-limits because Ant-Man got delayed for 8 years.
Ultron being created by an established Avenger is important.
>>81037985
>we should re-write the entire team just because of muh accuracy
Horseshit, in the MCUverse Pym is an angry old man living alone and has zero contact with the Avengers, there's no logical reason for why he would create Ultron.
>>81038050
>Original Character is the best avenue, but we'll call him Ultron anyway.
He's an angry robotic cunt with daddy issues who wants to kill all humans, sounds like Ultron to me.
>>81037969
Ultron in EMH was perfectly good for EMH. Ultron is supposed to be a mirror of his creator. For the comics, that means an aggressively angry monster with an inferiority superiority complex, for the movies that means a raging narcissist
for EMH, Pym was a well meaning, driven young man who was insistent he could save the world through science
>>81037985
That's not what whappened. The Ant-Man movie took too long to get made (despite being planned since like 2002, putting a veto on using Pym in other movies) for Pym to be part of Avengers in any capacity at that point.
>>81038050
>In other words, Original Character is the best avenue
No it isn't. Otherwise they might aswell have made not!Iron Man because MCU Tony isn't like 616 Tony.
>>81037666
He had some good moments. His serious moment.
That "swift and terrible sword" speech was great I loved it.
He could have been better for sure, but I don't think he was butchered.
>>81037823
>>81037856
It's weird to hear that Whedon really pushed for Ultron, yet changed him quite a bit.
>>81038236
The quips. James Spader voice. Not convincing as a threat. He comes off as exciting as warm milk.
This is a God Teir Villain Speech
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK940jKvIOY
Ultron was actually genuinely intimidating. For the first five minutes. Then the quips start.
>>81038317
>James Spader voice.
Are you counting this as a flaw? Because I gotta disagree big time. James Spader has an incredible voice, and he SHOULD have been a perfect Ultron. I think they wasted him.
I also think he'd be a good voice for Eobard Thawne.
>>81038459
It immediately reduces the character to a joke. After the quips nothing would make the character convincing again as a threat.
i wish ultron had stayed that pile of armor scraps from the beginning of the movie. that looked cool.
>>81038435
No.
>>81038518
sexy ultron makes me laugh everytime
>>81038518
Stupid Sexy Ultron.
>>81038501
>James Spader
> intimidating
Pick one
>>81038793
*pick two
>>81038459
>>81038546
I think they could have gotten away with quips if they gave Ultron a different tone. Something much more dry and terse.
Yes, I get that Tony's the guy who made Ultron but Ultron doesn't need to act exactly the same, especially if he considers himself above' humanity.
Like have the quipping be deadpan with a blacker sense of humor. I don't know.
>>81037900
I always prefer my evil A.I's to be logical killing menchies...
>Nit robo Jokers.
Do me a favor, someone.
Describe to me why the comic book ultron was better, and why this one is inferior.
>>81038435
That was terrible.
>>81041171
Comic book Ultron is threatening. This wasn't, at all. He also just visually looked terrible. The CGI was garbage and his expressive face was fucking retarded. His bots are how he should have looked.
>>81038450
Ever time I see the bottom right one i think of the godfather and that fucking orange scene
I still haven't watched this movie because of Ultron.
>>81041336
Hid bot didn't look intimidating they looked like cannon fodder
>>81041375
Because that's all Whedon chose to depict them as, one good scene could have made a noticeable difference, but instead he gave us exactly what you called them, cannon fodder.
>>81037666
Because James Spader deserves every red cent that people are willing to give him.
BRING BACK BOSTON LEGAL, 2016!!!
>>81038147
> 2002
2006, m8
Shaun of the Dead being a hit is why Marvel even considered Wright's pitch
Describe the trip anon. How did you feel whenever Captain America spoke?
>>81038573
It was also the only time he was intimidating.
>>81041559
No it because being emotionless means you aren't unique, it means your one of many. Even when soulsess, you need things that make you emote.
Which is why in the comics, althogh ultron's face has a spiderman effect were it emotes
>>81041841
when the character is already 100% CGi you can cheat with CGI light and shadows to create the illusion of expression
>>81037823
Same reason he put Ultron's mystic counterpart The Other into the first Avengers.
>>81037666
They should've stuck with his emotionless robot face like in the comics and what he had at the start and the end of the movie. Idk why they thought it was a good idea to give him human facial features.
>>81038459
> He needs to be intimidating and disturbingly human while also being un-human.
> Yet he also needs to be a sympathetic character in his interactions with Wanda and Pietro.
> By having him quip so much Ultron can't hope to do the above two. That is the problem.
>>81038459
>>81039052
I'd have loved to see an evolution. Remember how pissed off he was when Klaue compared him to Stark? That should be him throughout the film. He can't help but Quip, being a Tony Stark invention, but over the course of the film he starts to get more disgusted with himself for doing so. By the end he should be a jibbering wreck of pure hatred for Stark OR a cold and dispassionate machine.
>>81043762
>By the end he should be a jibbering wreck of pure hatred for Stark OR a cold and dispassionate machine.
Or a cold, dispassionate machine that has rare but extremely violent spats of pure, insane rage.
>>81037666
>Yfw Yellowjacket was a better Ultrons than Ultron
Everything about Cross was straight up Ultron.
>>81037856
I thought they chose Loki because he was the first Avengers villain irl
>>81041841
You'd be right if maybe we got some rage and literal frothing from Ultron, maybe the red becoming so bright and so untamed that it makes him resemble comic Ultron when he got pissed, but we didn't. We got "IM NOT TONY STARK! Lol what are babies?" and Spaderface instead.
>>81044475
That may have been the reason, but in any case it's what the studio wanted, while Joss originally wanted Ultron.
>>81044510
>That may have been the reason, but in any case it's what the studio wanted, while Joss originally wanted Ultron.
Literally making shit up since the script was written before Joss was even signed, and Loki was planned to be the villain all the way back in Iron Man 2.
Fiege said Whedon pitched Ultron on the set of Avengers for if they got to do a sequel.
>>81044861
Whedon pitches for Ultron during making Avengers...also adds The Other into Avengers.
Joss was thinking of his childhood couple.
>>81044995
Gotta give the man his props.
Squeezed his waifu and his husbandu in pretty well.
>>81041653
A Boston Legal fan on /co/
>>81044995
He knew he had to save her from Bendis. He knew he was the only one who could.
>>81037666
>>81037773
>>81037823
>>81037869
>>81037897
>>81037900
Like in the comics, he was very much like Hank Pym as the anon said, without any of the empathy, warmth and personal skills.
In the MCU, it was Tony who made Ultron, so if he didn't take after Hank Pym, he's going to take after Tony.
Thus the quipping, the MCU Ultron is pretty much a robot version of Tony Stark gone FUCKING INSANE. If you watch the movie that way, with that understanding, it makes much more sense.
People are more upset that Ultron wasn't Pym's Ultron, which is fair enough.
>>81045069
I just want Vision and Wanda to be happy in one universe.
Why does Whedon have such a boner for making the Avengers fight each other?
>>81045515
It's been one of the defining traits of the team since day one, and was the biggest thing that set them apart form the Justice League.
>>81045515
He doesn't. The Iron Man vs Thor scene was another one of those 'producers made me do it' things.
Do you even director's commentary, my nigga?
>>81045145
>Thus the quipping, the MCU Ultron is pretty much a robot version of Tony Stark gone FUCKING INSANE
I'm sure we all realize that, but it doesn't help that Tony Stark/Iron Man in the MCU really isn't threatening at all even when he should be, and it doesn't help that he's gotten less so over the course of all his movies.
The only time I can recall Tony/Iron Man acting like a scary motherfucker is when he saves the village from terrorists in the first movie. No quips, no messing around, just mercilessly killing a bunch of dudes in the most efficient way possible.
That's what Ultron should have been like. Not fucking around. Not dealing with anyone's bullshit. Not an insane Tony, an ANGRY Tony. A PERPETUALLY ANGRY Tony.
>>81045145
Does that justify a shitty Ultron?No
>>81045599
It's not shitty.
>>81045145
This. I think where things went awry is that Tony of Avengers 2 (and possibly Civil War once that comes out) and Ultron aren't really that different.
Essentially a crazy Tony is the Tony that was acting so scared by Wanda's hoodoo that he went and revived the Ultron project, which was a bad idea no matter how you go about it.
In essence, Ultron doesn't quite hit the mark as a funhouse mirror of Tony because he and Tony are actually pretty similar, and really only happen to be on opposite sides of the conflict. neither their contrasts nor similarities are highlighted well enough for this dichotomy to become clear.
Further, the movie doesn't really show Tony regretting or appreciating his mistake in creating Ultron, and in some ways even validates his behavior when he (with help from Thor) allows Vision to be created. In this way he isn't made to confront the consequences of his actions.
Ironically, he may actually have done so between AoU and Civil War, where he's on the side of keeping the Avengers accountable. Maybe during the time he's had off he's had to grapple with that realization and eventually come up fearing the power of heroes answering only to their own consciences.
TL;DR it may take Civil war to actually appreciate Ultron's role
>>81045592
Angry Tony is just edgy though. They got James Spader for Ultron, would be a shame to not let James Spader be James Spader because he's angry and serious.
>>81045648
Whedon go to bed
>>81045828
As an addendum to this, Ultron's motivations were also not clearly shown as an extension of Tony's desire to protect everybody. Partly this was obscured by the quipping but also because Ultron's villainy was largely offscreen.
I may be misremembering (I only saw AoU once), but my impression was that Ultron regarded himself as the kind of system that could do what the Avengers, being merely human, were too weak to do: i.e. defend the earth from its greatest threat, which is humanity.
As such, besides his Sokovia gambit that just made him out to be a genocidal robot, AoU doesn't really make the connection between that and the motivation that was instilled in Ultron by Tony's directives/desire.
I think this would've been better shown if there were scenes with Tony acting as a futurist (as he does in the comics) and sort of sketching out the kinds of threats he sees that a system like the Avengers aren't equipped to handle.
I guess Ultron should have come across as a quippy, sarcastic, self-confident Dinosaurus from Invincible, a character that commits all manner of heinous genocide to save the world from climate change.
>>81045966
Ultron spells it out in the scene where the Twins betray him: He wants to create a disaster that will force humanity to become stronger.
But after he loses all his friends and his ultimate body, he says "Fuck it" and decides to kill everyone out of spite.
>>81045145
>In the MCU, it was Tony who made Ultron, so if he didn't take after Hank Pym, he's going to take after Tony.
Based on what? Tony made jarvis as well but Jarvis is nothing like Tony
>>81045828
>Angry Tony is just edgy though. They got James Spader for Ultron, would be a shame to not let James Spader be James Spader because he's angry and serious.
And you wonder why people say the MCU has shitty villains. They don't let them be scary or threatening to the degree that both the characters and the audience are affected.
And who gives a shit about what the voice actor's 'real' personality is like? A good voice actor doesn't constantly act like themselves, they use what they have to enhance and define a character.
Took me 10 mins in Paint.
Thoughts?
>>81046003
Based on the fact that Ultron always has Daddy issues. Pym has created a lot of things but Ultron was the one who acted like Pym, none of his other creations did.
>>81046013
I'm not wondering. Ultron was a poorly implemented villain, but I still prefer him as he appeared because James spader is really great at portraying that kind of quippy ass, not a broody menace. If you want a menacing scaryman, pick someone other than james spader to be your villain.
>>81046046
>Based on the fact that Ultron always has Daddy issues
Why? They are there for one scene and not explained or explored.
>>81046026
HOLLYWOOD BTFO
>>81037830
I think I need recommended Ultron appearances, stat
>>81046079
>Why? They are there for one scene and not explained or explored.
There's no reason given, but it can be assumed it has to do with the first thing he's exposed to being a Google search for "Tony Stark".
His main motive comes directly from Tony, and his similarity to Tony (but hatred of him and refusal to admit the similarity) come up a few times.
>>81046096
In no particular order:
Rage of Ultron
Avengers AI
Ultron Unlimited
Annihilation: Conquest
Daredevil 275-6
West Coast Avengers 1-9
Avengers 54-8, 66-8
The Bride of Ultron
>>81046338
Show don't tell
>>81046593
It wasn't told. It was shown.
>>81046618
It wasn't even shown
>>81046653
The exact instance you're replying to IS showing instead of telling.
Ultron acting a lot like Tony, and getting pissed off when someone compares them, IS showing his daddy issues. A character saying that he has daddy issues would be telling.
>>81046709
But we need to know why the daddy issues or the self hatred is there.
>>81046772
Not really. The why isn't important, just that they are there.
And even then, saying "Show don't tell" is weird, when there was zero telling and arguable showing:
>>81046338
>There's no reason given, but it can be assumed it has to do with the first thing he's exposed to being a Google search for "Tony Stark".
>>81037666
>people actually didn't like Spadertron
>calling him "Memetron"
Is this a meme? Or just a faggot OP? Lately, I've noticed everything people don't like is either called Reddit or meme; must be newfag behaviour.
>>81046837
>>81046856
I scanned the whole thread and couldn't find anything but
>he was too jokey
Which is kinda Spader's thing. At least from what I've seen in Blacklist.
>>81046910
the story was just wasn't there. if the story wasn't a rehash of the first avengers, Spadertron's memeing would've been chilling when he fucked shit up. He should've choked Quicksilver while quipping or something.
I actually liked the movie, but not for the story. I like the part when they were building Vision and when the Infinity stones were starting to matter.
>>81046961
Other than the final battle involving a horde of enemies I don't see how it's a rehash of the first one at all.
The story is much stronger than in the first one.
>>81045069
So we'll hate him. Because that's what needs to happen. We'll condemn him. Put the sick memes on him. Because he's not a director. He's a character rescuer. A SJW-triggerer. A true fan.
>>81046709
There is a deleted scene that mentions banner being the reason for his anger issues, but they cut it cause wheddon is a dickass.
>>81047066
>Film has location in opening that is meant to be forgettable
>awkward dialogue between banner and BW
>Cap talks to a black guy with mentions of the previous cap movie
>Villain recruits newly introduced character to work for him
>Thor is just...... kinda there
>Villain needs some goofy mineral for his plan
>Hulk goes crazy and has to be stopped
>Nick fury gives a hammy speech, doesn't do much else
>new character works for avengers now
>No one bothers to check the place from the beginning, turns out that's where the villain is.
>bad guy has an army
>Helicarrier and the army of SHIELD isn't used to fight the army, gots to manage the helicarrier
>ends with a big explosion
>bad guy has ambiguous ending
I mean, which movie am I describing
>>81037666
There's a reason he got fired
>>81047213
>bad guy has ambiguous ending
Ok, what. Loki gets captured and brought to Asgard--not ambiguous.
Vision exlicitly says the Ultron he kills at the end is the last one--not ambiguous unless you think he was mistaken.
>>81037969
>>81037900
>>81037869
Did you guys even watch the episode where the anon got that image from? He was already throwing hissy fits there and perving in Wasp, hardly "Skynet bot" behavior.
>>81046003
Whedon said Ultron was based on Tony's brainwave patterns but that shit was never adressed in the movie.
Honestly Ultron made by Hank was superior because Hank is a fucked up individual with self loathing, massive guilt and mental problems and Ultron is a reflection of that. Also Tony got forgiven for the whole Ultron thing pretty quickly, Hank has the blame for life.
>>81047213
Those are really arbitrary similarities, and almost all of them have no real bearing on the main plotline.
>>81047761
>Honestly Ultron made by Hank was superior because Hank is a fucked up individual with self loathing, massive guilt and mental problems
Tony is pretty fucked up in the head too desu senpai
>>81037666
>has access to the internet
>not Memetron
>>81047697
>He was already throwing hissy fits there and perving in Wasp
>perving in Wasp
say what now
>>81047877
Yeah, but MCU Tony lacks some of the more dramatic flaws, at least in a visible way.
>>81038435
Wrong. This is a far better villain speech. This was the Ultron we should have had for the rest of the movie.
https://youtu.be/CxDQh_-vJss
>>81047928
He had severe paranoia and ego problems. He didn't have the alcoholism, but the former two are much more important.
>>81047564
>kills
It's like you have not been reading comics or watching movies at all and don't know what it means when the focus of the scene suddenly changes to not show an implied death directly.
>>81047213
Add there:
>The villain has daddy issues.
>The villain is only a serious physical threat to weaker members of the team, and then just barely.
>Therefore plot is mostly about an internal conflict in the team, the villain's evil plan hinges on faciliating that conflict.
>>81047213
>Villain recruits newly introduced character to work for him
Didn't happen in avengers 1, Selvig and Barton were both introduced in Thor.
>Villain needs some goofy mineral for his plan
What? "villain needs a thing" is a plot point in every movie ever.
>Hulk goes crazy and has to be stopped
This is the narrative function of the Hulk. If you put the Hulk in your movie and he doesn't go crazy, you're doing it wrong.
>Nick fury gives a hammy speech, doesn't do much else
This is the narrative function of Nick Fury. If you put Nick Fury in your movie and he doesn't go hammy, you're doing it wrong.
>new character works for avengers now
Except Barton did before so whatever.
>ends with a big explosion
Every action movie ever.
>>81047979
In this case, and many others, it's because showing the implied death is a lot more clunky.
>>81048070
so you agree then that it's the same movie?
>>81048087
Only in the sense that it is a movie and by your arguments every movie is the same movie.
>>81048103
You're kidding yourself if you don't think that the majority of MCU movies haven't been following a specific formula.
>>81048103
if you go on with your reductionism every movie is the same movie.
>>81048135
There's definitely a formula but it's not a very specific one. It's a generic action/adventure movie formula.
>>81048135
You're kidding yourself if you don't think that the majority of movies haven't been following a specific formula.
>>81048149
That may be but apart from at most 3 movies the tone remains similar in addition to the plot elements.
It's the same situation as the Disney 'Renaissance'. Having a similar tone makes the otherwise generic formula seem repetitive.
It's like baking a cake. Before you add all the goodies, you have the basic cake that's no different from other cakes. Then you add some frosting and maybe cherries or M&Ms or something that makes the cake unique. People don't want you to reinvent the cake, but they do like different toppings and flavors.
>>81047213
>>Film has location in opening that is meant to be forgettable
How is Sokovia meant to be forgettable?
>>awkward dialogue between banner and BW
Not plot.
>>Cap talks to a black guy with mentions of the previous cap movie
This is REALLY reaching.
>>Villain recruits newly introduced character to work for him
None of the characters Loki recruited were newly introduced.
>>Thor is just...... kinda there
The absence of something isn't really a similarity.
>>Villain needs some goofy mineral for his plan
Literally the oldest plot device in the book.
>>Hulk goes crazy and has to be stopped
That's what the Hulk does.
>>Nick fury gives a hammy speech, doesn't do much else
That's what Nick Fury does. Also not plot.
>>new character works for avengers now
Well duh.
>>No one bothers to check the place from the beginning, turns out that's where the villain is.
But they did check Stark tower. Which also wasn't the setting of the opening scene.
>>bad guy has an army
Well fucking duh.
>>Helicarrier and the army of SHIELD isn't used to fight the army, gots to manage the helicarrier
The whole point of the Avengers is that they do what SHIELD can't. And as with Thor, the absence of a thing isn't a similarity.
>>ends with a big explosion
Literally every action movie ever.
>>bad guy has ambiguous ending
What the fuck are you talking about? Neither of them were ambiguous at all.
Those aren't similar plots. Those are a handful of similar details. Probably because it's a movie about the same characters written by the same guy.
>>81048207
you hardly refuted any of the things he said.
'well duh' they're the same that's why they're different.
are you serious?
>>81048168
>>81048149
TONE
O
N
E
is everything in 'generic' plots/movies. Or franchises for that matter.
Die Hard and Paul Blart: Mall Cop have the same plot but vastly different tones.
The MCU has the same plots and very similar tones.
>>81037666
Originally he was way darker, test audiences said they were ''afraid'' of him, and changed him, but they went overboard with it.
>>81048254
>test audiences said they were ''afraid'' of him
Good. Being scared of a villain helps to raise the stakes and make us worried about the heroes.
>and changed him
FUCKING WHY
>>81048249
winter soldier, gotg, and ant-man had the same tones?
>>81048254
Sounds like bullshit.
>>81048281
That's why I said 'similar' and not 'same'.
Winter Soldier is one of the only real outliers in the MCU, however.
>>81048314
gotg was a space opera
ant-man was a heist movie
similar tones, what?
>>81048314
Winter Soldier was a political thriller. Basically Clear and Present Danger with superheroes.
Genre =/= tone.
>>81048355
Winter Soldier was gritty, high-stakes, full of paranoia and gut-punches. Tonally closer to a DC movie than a Marvel one.
>>81048346
Both were 'irreverent', lighthearted, goofy, not serious, risk-free, 'fun' etc.
While the genres are different, the situations play out in similar manner, and the characters in general act very similar to one another.
To continue >>81048192's cake analogy, genres are how the cake is cut while tone is the flavor and toppings.
A chocolate cupcake with vanilla frosting will taste the same as a chocolate layer cake with vanilla frosting.
>>81037666
Ultron isn't a personality in its own right. He's an algorithm through which somebody else's personality is refracted.
Pym was a misanthrope. Tony's a dank quipper. If Banner ha built him he would have been "y-you too"tron.
>>81048455
The thing is, the misanthrope would be the most likely to build a robot superior to his fellow humans
>>81038793
>He doesn't watch the Blacklist.
>>81038793
>he didn't see that episode of The Office where Andy tries to stand up to Robert California
He's the fucking Lizard King
>>81047951
> tfw no Alcoholic Ultron
>>81047089
Whedon, for all his faults, saved Wanda and made her a popular character again.
There were literally people 2-3 years back saying how fucked Wanda was and "all hope rests on Joss Whedon".
I salute him.
>>81050478
On that I agree, if it wasn't for him, we wouldn't have had Vision or the twins.
He killed QS, but still.
>>81038133
Except that it makes perfect sense for him to be an angry, withdrawn old man because he was responsible for creating Ultron.
His backstory in the film was just Jan getting fridged.
>>81048455
Even if Pym had been available I think Tony would have been responsible for creating him anyway. Like in the movie we got, it's mostly Tony's fault but also Banner's. Pym would have just played the Banner role. Everything in the MCU has to revolve around Tony Stark.
The problem as many people have noted is that Whedon doesn't seem fully aware that Stark is a terrible person. He said on the commentary that he only realized while shooting the film that you could see Stark as the villain. How could you not be aware of that?
A related thing is that Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are very easily forgiven for nearly destroying a town with the Hulk (you can argue Wanda's punishment is to lose her country and her brother, at least she gets punished more than Stark). It's not a movie that thinks hard about consequences.
>>81050757
He said he shot a possible ending where QS lived, in case Disney wanted to keep him.
I don't know the ins and outs behind it but it seems obvious that without Whedon's '70s nostalgia boner, Marvel would not have even considered using these characters (they won't use them in any other adaptations or merchandise because of the Fox connection). So kudos to you, sad Joss man.
>>81048426
>Tonally closer to a DC movie than a Marvel one.
Not really just because tws is darker doesn't mean it basks in its darkness and self important philosophy
He's always been like this. Try watching Buffy some time. Good lord, joss...
>>81045993
So just copying Modern Warfare 2's story then.
I think what people wanted from AoU isn't what they got. Well clearly it isn't.
But hear me out, people expected (and were sold) a major climax movie, because it's an Avengers movie and that's how the 1st one played itself being a climax to the phase 1.
But AoU is just a couple of Avengers issues, not a huge event (despite how it was marketed) , and it also serves as an origin movie to a couple of characters. And as that I think it's fine, I don't mind the disjointed and not-that-threathening aspects because it took time to develop characters that are clearly not going to be developped much in solo movies (Hawkeye, BW, Hulk) and gave the MCU as a whole some breathing room.
Anyway, I liked
>Avengers: Weekend at Ultron's
>>81057693
That wasn't original either.
>>81048207
>None of the characters Loki recruited were newly introduced.
Hawkeye.
>>81057924
He was in Thor
>>81058350
Wait really? Goddamn everything about that movie was forgetable.
But he was a good adaption. Just not for us. He was perfect for the kind of one-liner action movie Whedon turned the Avengers into.
>>81038459
the avengers make jokes because they are all used to this superhero stuff and it helps them stay alert and intimidate their enemies. it's like gallows humor; if you've higher than a double digit iq, it's unavoidable. ultron makes jokes because he sees himself as far above everyone else.
also, quipping in the face of danger is confusing to opponents and is far more entertaining and frightening than someone who can't seem to move at all without taking on tremendous emotional stress.
tldr: quipping is a reflection of hypercompetence and competence is interesting and fun.
also, imo the first 5 minutes of spaedertron's performance were his least sensible and most banal (although i loved his performance in general ... i loved everyone's performances in this movie). the best that i can figure is that he's trying to make a statement by shocking the avengers and also distract them long enough to make a clean getaway, as he doesn't come nearly close to killing anyone. he is completely fearless so if you take his words seriously -that he wants the world to evolve and that he will give many chances for it- i think he's just being grandiose and dramatic. why else would he construct a body out of a broken drone if not to look especially like a freakshow?
>>81059901 cont.
ironically, i think spaedertron is somehow even less of an evil cunt than hydra is, despite almost obliterating the human race.
ultron wants to be loved and he wants to be seen as heroic, and he only activated the meteor drop when it seemed like he was about to lose. he is an evil cunt, no doubt, but somehow he seems less despicable than a shadowy group that wants to eliminate everyone who isn't an absolute facist, no matter who they are.
with that said, i really hope that the tesseract turns out to be the space gem and that all those nazis and us soldiers who got zapped are off in some realm with the red skull. i want to see what happens after 90 years of being ruled by or fighting beside the red skull. ...which reminds me, i never finished reading axis.
>>81046069
i think he was a fantastic villain but his motives were a little hard to understand.
i still think spaedertron is a schizoid mess that's largely the result of the 'mind gem' cobbling together a mind out of pyms ultron, hydra's modifications to ultron, tony's mind / language database, and there might even be some intervention from thanos, considering he somehow has knowledge of what's happening on earth and the only connection we know about so far is the staff.
>There is a deleted scene that mentions banner being the reason for his anger issues, but they cut it
well, there we go. i somehow missed that one but that would definitely support the notion that spaedertron is a kludgemind that the mind gem assembled by following its wielders' wishes
>cause wheddon is a dickass.
the extended deleted scenes actually make the film MUCH more coherent and sensible imo (with the exception of one scene that deserved to go into the trash). the deletion of these scenes is not whedon's fault, although somehow neither version of thor's vision quest shows us what ultron really is or why the vision is worth saving.
