Was Bojack really in the wrong here?
How would have handled the situation if you were in his shoes?
it's uncouth, but not technically wrong
they're both adults
yes, bojack is in the wrong. He is an adult, and he didn't love the daughter, he liked the mom and was using the daughter as a vessel. Age aside, (legal I know), the problem is that he didn't care about the daughter.
>>81003006
It's not technically illegal. "Wrong" is a moral question.
>>81002962
The fucked up part was not "was she legal?" like all those retards from the talkback threads kept insisting, but that Bojack was projecting her mom onto her and using her, minutes after he got turned down by her mom. It's like a more fucked up version of trying to fuck the sister of a girl you want to fuck because they look similar.
>>81003230
>>81003320
>muh morals
Laws are the only objective way of defining right and wrong.
>>81003454
But, Laws are morals.
>>81003454
Morality and legality are different things for a reason anon. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you aren't a cockbite for doing it.
>>81002962
I wouldn't have tried to win over a girl I was friendly with twenty fucking years ago in the first place, much less get busy with her teenage daughter.
>>81003454
You're objectively retarded.
>>81002962
When sitting out with her.
>Hey your daughter tried to kiss me. I think its best if I left.
>>81003454
>laws
>objective
Laws are just rules agreed upon by a society and are subject to that society's whims.
I woulda fucked that deer pussy and made sure that fucking door was locked
What are you talking about. Nothing happened. Bojack did nothing wrong as nothing happened.
>>81003454
Just kill yourself dude. Can't be fun living with a brain like that
That whole night was really fucked up. Bojack missed being in control so much that he totally abused his authority when he had teenagers in his charge. He gave one alcohol poisoning and manipulated another into lying to the hospitalto the hospital. Then, as if that weren't bad enough, he finally gives up on Charlotte and projects his fucked-up Maine fantasy onto Penny, even though he was supposed to be acting as a parent in the situation. Bojack is a bad person, no matter how identifiable every one of us finds him, and his actions as a whole that evening were deplorable.
It's not just about her being young, jesus.
It's you fucking your ex-girlfriends daughter while on bad terms with her.
>>81003320
this
>>81003320
I didn't watch Bojack when it first aired. Please tell me you're joking. How did people not immediately get that?
>>81004077
This. The legality of the situation is entirely irrelevant. Morals exist outside of the law and there was multiple things fucked about that situation.
He was using Penny to project Charlotte that he just got turned down from, it's entirely abhorrent and disrespectful to the friendship he and Charlotte had. He's using a very young and emotionally immature woman to fulfill some unrequited feelings. So there's that entire twisted angle.
And yea, she was mad at him, maybe if Penny was like 10 years older and Bojack was the same age he is and him and Charlotte weren't on bad terms it would be like...slightly less gross but it still has the entire other angle of projecting a fantasy onto another person.
If none of the aforementioned things we're a factor then the worst it would be is kinda skeevy for a middle aged man to be sleeping with a barely legal girl. It's wouldnt be truly disgusting but it would still be kinda eh.
The way to handle it would have been to plant the idea in her head of going to college in California.
She comes to him, no drama required.
>>81002962
If it was a random cute teenager, I would've done it.
If it was my friend's daughter, no goddamn way in hell.
>>81003454
law student here
you're a fucking joke
>>81002962
Yes, he was.
Probably the exact same way that he did.
>>81003454
You are incorrect. The only objective way of defining right and wrong is the Holy Bible.
Okay, so you're not going to hear this from anyone else in this cuck thread but here's the sitch:
If you try to go down on someone and they push you away, trying to do that person's child is CHEATING.
The only alternative is going to another state (very important) and trying someone new, and go fuck yourself if you choose a state that's right beside the one you're in.
It's because of this that I welcome any cultural change that the Japanese and South Koreans bring to the western world. You'd never hear about such disgraceful behaviour in any of those countries!
How is Bojack not in the wrong here?
Looking at it from Charlotte's perspective, here's a guy you were a close friend to in your young adulthood. From what we can tell, there was a mutual attraction between the two, yet nothing ever happened between the two. You then see your friend become incredibly successful, then proceed to ruin his life by selling his soul and getting involved with drugs, alcoholism, questionable partying antics for nearly twenty years in front of the whole world. Then after that, he shows up at your door and wants to live with you and your family.
He becomes a better father figure than your own husband to your two kids, he gets involved in their lives. And for a second, you believe he's left that alternate persona, the media image of Bojack, behind.
Then just one night, he tries to bring up a twenty year old attraction as a reason to leave your husband, then after being turned down; tries to fuck your daughter when even that morning he acted like a father to her. And of course she's young enough just to think having sex with an older man will somehow give her fulfillment. Which Bojack will never give anyone.
All that being said, the question of legality is moot, because it now SEEMS like that all the personal change he's gone through, and all the effort he put into helping parent your children, was all a game to give you the horse dick. He's not a criminal, just a terrible person.I wish Bojack had fucked Penny to be honest family.
>>81002962
According to New Mexico law, since she was 17 and he's 50 something and was placed in a position of authority over her by her parents, yes, he was committing a felony.
I would have sent her away, failing that I would have gone inside my damn boat and locked the door.
>>81003230
It is in fact illegal in New Mexico because of the position of trust he was placed in by the family.
If he were just some 50 year old who hooked up with a 17 year old, it wouldn't be a problem in New Mexico, the problem arises because they know each other and he has been given a measure of authority over her.
It would at least go to trial and he would probably be classed as a sex offender for abusing the trust of the family to seduce their daughter.
>>81005300
Zzyzz would have pulled it off
>>81003454
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>81005347
You're kidding right?
I wouldn't fuck their daughter if they were nice enough to put up with me for a few months or however long it was. She wanted to bang but casual sex with an older loser who has a thing with her mom can't be a good thing for someone her age with limited experience with relationships.
>>81002962
I still can't believe this scene happened given the circumstances. You know they had to leave it ambiguous because they had no idea how to get Bojack in that situation.
>>81006719So did I. Not just cuz I wanna see implied horse deer sex, too. I wanted Bojack to fuck up on an insurmountable level.
>>81002962
>be American
>go to war and get shot
>be sent to jail for drinking and fucking
Only Cuckservatives give a fuck about teenager having sex.
My grandfather was 16 when he got married and given a parcel of land to farm. It's ridiculous how in less than a century everyone turned into flaming faggots.
>>81008933
Agreed, and nice dubs
>>81002962
I said it once, I'll say it again.
Bojack should have gotten Penny and Charlotte into a threesome.
Everything was perfect.
>Both women are attracted to him
>Both liberal-minded and open
>Both fun-loving ladies
I mean, COME. ON. BOJ.
Fifty year olds having sex with seventeen year olds who have clear emotional issues is...pretty creepy.
>>81004044
Yep. Bojack is a horrible person, that's the one constant in this show.
>>81002962
Don't try anything with the mom, just have sex with Penny. If you try anything with the mom then the other option closes. It really only turned into even more shit than it could be purely because of what he did first, it was fucked up. If he just tried to have sex with her/did it it still would be fucked up but not destroy all relations possibly.
>>81002962
>How would have handled the situation if you were in his shoes
I would haveclosed the door behind me.
In all seriousness, though, what was Bojack's relationship to Charlotte?
Were they good friends, or did they only meet at the bar and that one party at the tar pits?
Also, I'd like to know what happened to living in Maine. She said she was only there for a month, but why did she leave? Lifetime Mainer, here, maybe she was turned off by the high living tax or went to one of the towns not made for tourists and ended up in some gross, depressing booney town like Bangor, Lewiston or Sanford.
I am happy that Charlotte isn't living some idyllic life like Bojack imagined. After we got that dream about the perfect family with a cute daughter, the first thing we hear from the real daughter is her complaining her little brother has an erection at the table,which, by the way, was handled poorly. Shame on Charlotte and Penny for giving him crap, guys can't hide that shit at that age!
>>81002962
>How would have handled the situation if you were in his shoes?
Never touch a woman.
>>81006719
It would have had a lot more impact if they had at least fooled around a little before getting caught.
>>81006840
Even if he would be technically convicted by the law, the situation doesn't fit the spirit of that law. She forced herself on him.
>>81011149
He couldn't even get Charlotte into a twosome, how the fuck was he going to work it into a threesome?
>>81002962
Locked the fucking door. And really no matter which way I went I would have done that. But before the girl came in, seriously.
>>81008933
>>81006719
You know they thought about it, but I think that might have put him entirely beyond redemption for too many people. I mean, he's beyond redemption with Charlotte forever now, but there's levels.
>>81011646
Aw bullshit. She was definitely making herself available, but forced? If Charlotte was actually like, on top of Bojack when he was saying "no, get off, stop it penny" that'd be one thing, but he left that door open, and when she came in he clearly didn't try to send her back out again. He might have tried to convince himself later that what he did was less fucked up because hey, he told her not to and then she came after him, but he was letting it happen and that rationalization would have been bullshit. Hell, Bojack himself would know it was bullshit once it was done.
>>81002962
Until the writers explicitly state that he was gonna fuck her, I'm in Bojacks corner saying he did no wrong.
As far as I see it, its just a misunderstanding until then, he didn't do anything.
>>81011492
She mentioned that they only knew each other as acquaintances.
>>81012029
She wanted to sleep with him, he said no. Then she tried again, he said no again. He eventually caved because he was in a bad place and she was so persistent, but you can't deny that she 100% initiated it. Even if he hooked up with her it would have had nothing to do with "being in a position of authority over her".
i'm more curious as to what the effect was AFTERWARD.
do they keep the father in the dark?
How does the daughter ultimately feel?
Does she resent her mother for stopping it?
Does she think the mother is just jealous that she couldn't have him?
DOES SHE EVEN EXPLAIN IT WAS HER IDEA TO BEGIN WITH?
Because I feel like they wouldn't be able to ignore what just happened. And the father can't ignore the fact that they let Bojack stay for so long that he was practically raising the daughter too
I'll be totally fine if we never get closure on it though. It almost adds to just how awful the situation is to picture Bojack just heading back to L.A trying to forget that he basically ruined a perfectly happy family for his own selfish feelings
>/co/ has difficulties determining if something that was clearly wrong was wrong
Jesus christ this fucking place sometimes...
>>81012218
or maybe we're all just bored and miserable, so we want to discuss something you fucking sperg
>>81012178
I don't think it's really that bad, it wouldn't ruin their family. Charlotte would probably try to explain to her why it would be bad to hook up with an older guy who doesn't really care for her, Penny would probably do the whole teenager "UGH MOM YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO" thing for a bit, but I bet it would blow over pretty quick.
>>81012029
Penny, goddamnit. Time to sleep.
>>81012031
No, the writers have talked about it:
"We were really precise with episode 11. There was a lot of talk of how unclothed the characters would be, what step in the process is [Charlotte] walking in on. So, yes, there are things that feel like they're too far — but sometimes it's important to push yourself onto that ledge. When I first pitched the episode, it was that BoJack goes to New Mexico and gets involved with the family, and he sleeps with Charlotte. And as we were breaking the episode, someone had the idea of, what if it's the daughter? And at first we were all like, "No no no, we can't do that." But the more we thought about it, the more it made sense — and the more it was in our heads, and it felt almost cowardly not to go that far …"
http://www.vulture.com/2015/07/bojack-horseman-season-two-raphael-bob-waksberg.html
>>81012160
She initiated it, yes. It would have been consensual sex, no argument there. Nobody was forced on either side. It was still a shit thing to let happen and he should have fucking known better. All he had to do was lock the goddamn door.
>>81012178
Penny will resent it now, in 5-10 years she'll think about it again and go "Whew! Thanks mom!"
>>81005347
Straight up mah nigga
>>81012287
Yeah I agree morally it wasn't a good thing to do, just arguing that it wouldn't be illegal even with that law.
>>81012337
See
>>81003320
up at the top. That was always the least of the problems.
>>81012423
You should try reading reply chains before replying to posts.
>>81012264
Holy shit. I don't think I could ever be the "someone" in that group who suggests something like that. Only you anons have read my weirdest thoughts.
>>81012178
He doesn't get closure.
It's an underlying theme. Everything wrong he does is just kind of floating around his head amorphously screaming at him like the sixty million fucking Spirits of Christmas.
I'd always thought the scene was like the medicine Bojack didn't want but Bojack needed. He fucks up. That's his DNA. Unless he can unbolt his conscience and toss it in a river he's never gonna make it. The montage was kind of like he was arriving at that milestone. The New Bojack does the same shit to people like he always did but he dun care no more.
If it had been my daughter I'd honestly have shot him instead of letting him off the hook like that with a slap on the wrist.
>>81013383
have fun in jail psychopathy
A lawyer anon from south-west murrica made a good post about how he could still have been charged for rape under coercion or something like that since he was a 50 year old man who lived with the family and who was in a position of power over the underaged girl. Either way any jury would probably have spitroasted him if it had ever come to that.
>>81013441
They probably could have because of the tendency of the law to side with women in a situation like this, but it wouldn't have been right.
>>81003171
>having sex with someone you don't care about is wrong
Shut up
>>81013477
But it is wrong anon, you can tell yourself otherwise but deep down you know she doesn't care about you. Sure you may have gotten laid before but what good is sex without comfort. Can you look yourself in the mirror and honestly say you are happy?
>>81009026
I bet you like wife beating too huh?
>>81002962
>come out of nowhere to try and rekindle love with an old friend, but she's married
>leech for 2 or so months being mildly productive
>get her daughter's friends drunk and generally give them an unknowingly bad time
>try and sleep with her sober daughter who is the master of bad/childish decisions after taking her to prom
>accepting her out of grief as a full grown adult instead of pushing this kid out of a horrible experience
Of course he was wrong, he should've just left the day after prom.
>>81015341
yes. I get comfort from other people.
>>81015398
>get her daughter's friends drunk and generally give them an unknowingly bad time
Hey now, he showed them a pretty good time before the other chick got sick.
>>81015470
Didn't he give them hard vodka or something heavy? It's been a while but the other kids got fucked up.
>>81015480
He gave them alcohol but they were going to get drunk anyway.
>>81015385
Only on a fictional basis, depending on the scenario.
Why is everyone under the assumption that this scene means anything ELSE than a misunderstanding.
My guess to what really happened is that after Bojack sends Penny away he has a breakdown that Penny sees and tries to get him to his bed so he could rest. The only reason he didn't try to explain himself to Charlotte is because he knows he has to let her go and what better way to make that permanent that to make her hate him.
Did people not notice this??? Do people really think Bojack had sex with this underage girl?
>>81015644
Based on this >>81012264
You're wrong. He was going to but they got interrupted before anything happened. He might have chickened out before anything serious, but we'll never know.
>>81015644
I think there was an interview that had the creators confirm that Bojack was going to do the doe.
>>81006719
This is what happens and OP is not sure if Bojak was wrong?
>>81015703
It makes no sense though, he sends her a way the scene before, why and when does he change his mind??
>>81015706
Terrible people often attempt to find validation from other terrible people so that their conscience can rest easy.
OP raped his daughter, obviously, and may also harbor an attraction for his mother.
>>81003454
Literally you
>>81015716
When he sends her away he seems like he can barely muster the strength. Then he goes in his room to sulk and she follows him in and starting hitting on him again, and he probably just gave in.
>>81011218
No he has those occasional moments where he's a decent person... so that it's that much worse when he reverts back to his natural state.
>>81003500
Cannibalism is legal in the U.S
There is literally nothing wrong with having see with a willing teenage girl
>>81019520
There is literally nothing objectively wrong with cannibalism
did i watch some other show? bojack repeatedly turned her down, she was the one who barged into his room
>>81006719
>family
Why do I keep seeing this shit everywhere
I can't even tell if you're using it sarcastically.
>>81020507
Kuru
>>81021421
It's stupid slang that caught on both ironically and sincerely.
>>81015341
>but what good is sex without comfort.
Are you fucking serious? It makes your penis feel good. That's all it needs to do.
So, season 3 when
>>81003454
Are you that autistic fucker from my past Sociology class in college? It sounds like it.
>>81004390
No people got that but the much more fucked up thing was that he just finished taking her to the highschool prom.
Bojack is full of cringeworthy moments and social faux pas layered on top of each other.
>>81002962
>How would have handled the situation if you were in his shoes?
I wouldn't have stayed with them in the first place
>>81003454
So then... Hitler really did nothing wrong!
>>81021802
Presumably sometime during the summer.
>>81015685
So we can confirm Bojack wouuld have fucked Penny if they weren't disturbed?
Christ, Bojack is too far gone
>>81022480
There's zero reason to think that he wouldn't have.
>>81022480
Basically. Maybe a teeny tiny chance he would have had second thoughts once stuff started to happen but I definitely think he would have done it. I don't really think that's bad enough to call him too far gone though.
>>81022480
Well, he didn't want at first, he thought it was wrong, but not much time happened to change his mind so yeah, he would.
>>81012303
Penny will definitely be grateful she didn't sleep with Bojack when she grows up. Especially if she learns that he was manipulating her because he wanted to fuck her mom.
>>81006840
>placed in a position of authority
he's just a friend who took her to a dance for one night. they didn't give I'm parental authority or guardian rights for one night. he was never intended to look out for her just go there so she didn't have to go alone.
Also why it may sound worse it was Bojack's idea and her parents didn't make him watch her. He just wanted to have a fun night out.
>>81003454
>jim crow laws
>drug laws
>every esoteric, bullshit law that no one abides by and no one enforces
LAWS ARE THE ONLY OBJECTIVE WAY OF FINDING RIGHT AND WRONG YOU GUYS
>>81023602
he lived with them for like a month dude
>>81021713
i literally cannot orgasm outside of masturbation
>>81024107
It was three months actually.
>>81024214
in that case.
jesus fucking fuck Bojack
>>81024107
>>81024445
so? I'm failing to see the problem here. he had no authority over her and she went after him after he turned her down a couple times. it's no more wrong than a roommates falling for each other. which is basically what they are.
>>81002962
it doesn't matter whether he was in the wrong or in the right, what matters is that he fucked up his one big chance at being happy and that it's nobody's fault but his own because he's such a fucked up person who'd sleep with the daughter of his big crush because his actual crush refused to have sex with him. And that's not even counting the fucked up stuff he did at the dance.
>>81025227
>he fucked up his one big chance at being happy
but that was never his big chance at being happy. it's not the choices he makes that make him unhappy (though they sure don't help), it's his inability to accept himself due to his fucked-up childhood.
Bojack is Don Draper with a horse's head if he was also Bob Saget.
>>81024697
They weren't even roomates, he's more like a neighbor who comes over for meals a lot.
One thing that always bothers me is that no one brings up how weird Charlotte treats Bojack. She hasn't seen him in 20 years(barring for 2 minutes at Herb's funeral) and for whatever reason she's ecstatic to see him and invites him to live with them for 2 months. That's not what normal people do. I'm not saying it was "wrong" per se but it was definitely pretty weird. Bojack was practically raising Charlotte's kids in a lot of ways. Bojack was in the wrong in this whole situation but I think Charlotte was sending out a lot of weird signals to him.
>>81027374
She was; she even started kissing him back. She clearly had unresolved feelings for him. That doesn't absolve Bojack for his awful behavior, though.
>>81013477
It's not wrong for two adults to screw with not involvement but it's a pretty dick thing to lead someone on who's much younger than you
>>81003454
>Laws are the only objective way of defining right and wrong.
You are either a toddler that is still in their Pre-conventional understanding of morality or just very, very stupid.
>>81027411
I agree, I'm just saying Charlotte handled the situation in a bizarre and unhealthy way.
>>81027374
She did read his book and learned how messed up he was. I think it was a mixture of unresolved feelings and wanting to help.
>>81003454
Human law = Moral.
Real law = Phisics.
>>81025506
He lived in there parking lot#
>>81027470
How would he be leading her on?
>>81027374
It was more of a nice gesture that most people would refuse, but Bojack wanted those deer blinds so he accepted.
>>81017842
One step forward, four trotts behind.
Well if it really were me in Bojack's spot, I probably wouldn't have let high school students wasted on ridiculous amounts of alcohol and try to make out with a married woman but in that situation, I probably would stayed on the deck of the yacht and looked at the stars with Penny and discussed life until she fell asleep and took her to her bed
I mean I would love to fuck her but I wouldn't want to ruin a friendship over it
>>81003171
>>81004044
>>81006719
>>81006840
>>81011265
>>81015398
All you retards are wrong. Just wait until season 3. I will sit back and laugh at youneighsayers when it's shown that Bojack did nothing wrong.
>>81003707
>>81012031
>>81015644
These gentlemen know what's up.
>>81015644
>Do people really think Bojack had sex with this underage girl?
I never did but i was under the impression that he was going to go through with it. Charlotte walked in before it happened.
I like your interpretation, it does sound plausible.
>>81022582
Nah. Bojack isn't a second thoughts guy. He's a "regret after" guy. He'd probably feel like shit the next morning but he'd still have done it.
>>81027411
>>81027854
The difference is, she recognized it. Once it was happening, she said "wait, no" because while it's apparent her life wasn't perfect and she had some problems, her response to it wasn't going to be making everything much worse. She realized she was making the wrong call and she slammed the breaks on it once it crossed the line. Bojack's response was to suggest a much worse idea then do something even worse then that idea.
>>81028486
Penny is seventeen. How many 17 year olds you know really got it together? She was more mature then some but that's not the same thing. She probably thought she was in love with him, or at the very least that they would be in a relationship after this (even if he wanted that, which he didn't, that shit would not have worked out) She was going to make a stupid impulsive decision that she would later almost certainly regret because of how it would hurt her, and that's forgivable, because she was 17. By your fifties that she's a lot less understandable.
>>81030034
What exactly do you think is going to happen, that it turns out Bojack gave her some speech about how this was all a mistake and was about to send her away just as mom came in? Cause that'd go against what the writers have directly said. And don't give me no "open to interpretatoin" death of the author shit, you are saying they will pussy out and retcon something they've already discussed and this show has definitely not pulled back it's punches ever, so I doubt they'd start now. Not showing him dick deep in that girl is probably as restrained as they'll ever get.
>>81002962
>Was Bojack really in the wrong here?
Not really. At worst, he was giving the daughter what she thought she wanted and was pretty insistent on getting. At best, it was a misunderstanding.
>>81032745
Regardless of how mistaken she was in what she wanted, it was pretty clear it was never going to be a relationship and he never "lead her on".
>>81019940
this
