Redpill me on The Punisher, /co/
Does he omly kill people that have/will kill? Does he shoot jaywalkers? I love the Punisher but I now realize I know nithing about him
>>80974816
i dont read newer comics so all i can say is 'my punisher' only goes after the mafia and their dogs. he considers it a WAR on crime and war has collateral damage, but only people who work for the mob are supposed to die. well and any other scumbag criminals he comes across who are obviously worth more to society dead than alive.
>>80974816
He doesn't kill people, he franks them.
He once franked a jaywalker
The Punisher doesn't really go against minor little shit like that.
Mostly the mob or like drug dealers and sex trafficking rings. Major shit that is bad for the community or just other people in general.
>>80975183
>He once franked a jaywalker
And then the Punisher writer scrambled to retcon it so he wasn't just a psychopath shooting a jaywalker
I think the new story was that some villain caught him and pumped drugs into him making him hallucinate
>>80974816
Frank will Frank a drug dealer or a money launderer just as soon as he would a mob goon. Frank is at war with the criminal underworld and even those people are its soldiers
Not OP, but does he do it for "good" or is always about his family, or both?
>>80975502
Sometimes he is shown to genuinely care about people, but he is largely single minded.
Depends on the writer.
>>80975502
That's a really complicated question that really seems to vary from writer to writer. Ennis floated a vague idea in the MAX run that Frank uses his family as an excuse - that he got a taste for war in Vietnam and refuses to ever stop. It's why he went back there for several extra tours of duty. That, and a demon may or may not have possessed him, which is something that's been implied by various writers for decades. The MAX run ended with the a different writer than Ennis, and that writer left no ambiguity about Frank not actually caring about his family as much as he let's on. However, Rucka's run which kind of rebooted Punisher in 616 goes the other way and hints more at Frank truly being utterly devastated by the loss of his family, and that's entirely his motivation.
>>80975502
>>80975607
That all said, Frank has never really been portrayed as thinking he's doing anything good.
>>80975639
Frank explicitly has nothing to do with Justice, and he would never say so, he just punishes.
That said I'd say even in his darkest written iterations he will do anything to protect children.
>>80975639
huh, i guess that's one thing that separates him from the executioner then. that fucker definitely thinks he's doing what's right
>>80974816
Frank only kills the really bad guys. Murderers, rapists, pedophiles, druglords, mafiosos, traffickers, etc. He doesn't kill people who jaywalk or rob grocery stores, but that doesn't mean he won't still give them a piece of his mind.
>>80976176
Yeah, he would be the 'Justifier' and that's an entirely different series.
>>80975639
One thing that I really like about Ennis' Punisher is that Frank knows that no matter how many criminals he kills, there's always going to be more to take their place. His war is ultimately futile and he knows it, but he can't do anything else.
>>80975607
>However, Rucka's run which kind of rebooted Punisher in 616 goes the other way and hints more at Frank truly being utterly devastated by the loss of his family, and that's entirely his motivation.
Is it worth picking up the "Ultimate Collection" of this? The price seems a bit high.
>>80974816
The Punisher "sold his soul" to Lady Death in Nam to survive a Charlie rush on his base.
It had a cost though, his family and now lives with the unstoppable desire to "Punish" evil in the world because Lady Death is all about balance and their cannot be balance when all the other "heroes" do not kill.
One by one, Castle's unit drops, and he finds himself surrounded and running out of ammunition. The voice in his head becomes louder and louder until it can be heard over the scream of the storm and roar of the gunshots. It offers Castle the strength and stamina needed to survive, to maintain an eternal state of vigilance, and to wage the permanent war - at a price. Castle finally gives in.
By the next morning, the air support has returned with an EVAC helicopter to the destroyed encampment, but are horrified to find Castle standing in a field of mutilated and broken VC bodies. He suffered severe physical trauma and is bleeding from several gunshot wounds, but remains unaffected.
In the next scene, Frank Castle returns home, a decorated officer on a crutch, to his waiting wife, Maria and children. In the midst of the smiling return, the internal voice speaks again of the price of Castle's choice. We find now exactly what Castle's eternal war will cost him, as a picture details Castle's family in a sighting reticle reminiscent of the Punisher's skull icon. The voice goes on to say that it and Castle are in the same business though it has been at if for much longer and that Castle will keep it busy which implies that the voice could be the Devil or Death itself. Horrified, Castle embraces his smiling wife and eager children.
>>80974816
Depends on the writer, sometimes he only kills killers sometimes he just kills anyone he thinks is bad (and isn't Thunderbolt Ross).
>>80976664
VALLEY FORGE VALLEY FORGE
>>80976664
What is this revisionist bullshit?
>>80976664
Interesting, so this is implying that if Frank had chosen to give his wife and kids a free flag and some college, the rest of the Avengers crew would regularly be offing people? I'd LOVE to see that in a one-off.
>>80976751
Punisher MAX: Born
Not only one of his best arcs, but also the best explanations of why he can frank the way he franks without actually dying.
>>80974816
>Redpill me
Off yourself.
>>80976773
That or Lady Death would have to do another Marvel wide event only this time instead of "stop resurrecting people, ya bunch of idiots" it will be, "you are messing with the scales of life and death, start killing or I kill earth"
I'm waiting for a story where he actually kills A-B list villains.
Same for Red Hood.
They could actually create relevant group of villains than are active a few years (real world). Then 2 or 3 years later (with or without reboot). Red Hood or the Punished can actually kills several major villains.
>>80975502
neither
>>80974816
A lot of versions of the punisher basically focus on organized crime.
>>80974816
>Does he shoot jaywalkers?
Jaywalkers, not sure. Litterbugs, yes.
>>80978150
>>80974816
>>80975607
Ennis is what hooked me on Punisher, but looking back now I definitely prefer Rucka's take on him.
I see it as a Frank that's had everything pulled out from underneath him and he's just on full autopilot now. Always one foot in front of the other, on to the next battle because if he stops then he's left to process everything he's lost.
>>80974816
Depends on the writer. Sometimes he's absolutely meticulous about making sure no innocents get hit with crossfire, other times, like in that Anti-Venom issue, he's willing to shoot through innocent people to get to a criminal.
>Thug is using innocent junkie girl as human shield.
>Anti-Venom tells Punisher not to shoot, as his shotgun will hit the girl as well.
>Punisher says, "that's no girl, it's just a junkie" and takes aim.
>Anti-Venom pushes his shit in.
>>80978150
>>80978157
He was brainwashed and/or drugged at that time, mind you.
>>80979056
>junkie
>innocent
Mr. Dredd would like a word.
Speaking of which, i would diiig a Punisher vs Dredd comic. In fact, i think I'm going to draw it if it doesnt exist yet
>>80979087
It does, and even Dredd does hurt junkies if they're not fighting him. They need rehab as well as jail time.
>>80974816
Basically, he's Batman if Batman was a gun fanatic.
Would he kill someone for stealing?
Would he kill someone for pirating?
>>80979339
Frank doesn't kill criminals.
He punishes those who he believes deserve it, some of whom happen to have broken some laws.
Humor me on a hypothetical Marvel vs Capcom thing here.
Would Frank frank B.B.Hood on the basis that for money she kills whoever and whatever including possible innocents?
>>80974816
>Does he shoot jaywalkers?
The fact that you're asking indicates that you know he did.
>>80978150
>>80978157
I know he was brainwashed, but damn, it gets me everytime.
>>80979368
I assume, he'd only do it if he's sure she's killed innocent people.
>>80979018
Ennis punisher works way better because there's no superhero bullshit in it. Seriously, Frank really has no place getting mixed up with the capeshit crowd and has always worked better in a setting without them.
Didn't Frank Frank Ghost Rider Penance Stare with "no regrets"?
Can someone post that page?
>>80979733
I bet you think the X-Men work better in a universe all by themselves, too.
>>80976384
That's his name in Brazil actually, "Justiceiro".
>>80979761
Don't respond to me ever again
>>80979797
boo
I just read Circle of Blood, it was good but weird to see Frank making deals, narrating about innocents, wanting to end crime, and leaving loose ends.
>>80979746
I get the complaints about the page, but it isn't a case of plot armor, there's a Ghost Rider comic in which that happened.
>>80979797
>don't contact me or my dudes every again
jej
You are completely right though. Street level needs to stay grounded in a way that capes streaking across the city skyline just go completely against.
>>80979938
It's not plot armour that's the problem, it's that that isn't how the Penance Stare works
I get wanting to have a badass Frank moment but I understand why it annoys people
>>80979368
Go to bedBret
Frank is insane. He just needs an excuse to punish people.
Frank is the action hero taken to its logical conclusion. Think of all your favorite action heroes, and think of the types of minds they must have to do what they do.
Punisher max is the only real punisher to me.....oh and the whole "Welcome back Frank" run.was like 12 issues.
Baracuda is the best nemises Frank had
>>80976606
Are they coming out with a complete collection of Rucka's run? I know they are with Ennis's Maxx run.
Anyway, if they do then I say get it. For some reason the trades of Rucka's run (especially vol 2) can be very expensive. So unless you find the trades for a fair price on ebay then buy/wait for a complete collection to come out.
>>80975326
>Frank will Frank a drug dealer
It depends. He's not going to waste his time franking a weed dealer, but heroin is another history entirely.
>or a money launderer
Nah. He killed all of those businessmen in Barracuda because they were willing to cause a sustained blackout in New York, that would have killed many people.
>>80976751
Ennis' is the only run that matters, faggot.
>>80979339
That depends really
A corrupt politician stealing voters money?yeah
A shoplifter?no,maybe scare them shitless.
He won't kill for pirating,its a victimless crime.
>>80979018
I hate when they try to humanize him, but that's just me. He works better as a force of nature.
>>80980758
>A corrupt politician stealing voters money?yeah
Absolutely not, what the fuck is wrong with you?
>>80980749
Oh, you're one of those.
>>80980809
But seriously, it's not revisionism. They never really explored Frank's third vacation in Vietnam, so it was the first time we saw it.
>>80980775
If the fucker is involved with mafia,he's dead
>>80980762
force of nature is a cliche phrase that's lost all meaning but I agree with the sentiment
Frank represents not just 'if you commit crime I come after you' but 'you commit crime you create more people like me'
>>80976279
He's also not fond of drunk drivers.
>>80974816
Let's just say he's not too fond of chimneys.
He's a white supremacist power fantasy.
>>80979339
>Would he kill someone for pirating?
He should.
>>80980905
>I was in 'Nam with this chimney
Everytime
>>80980972
Also, misogynist.
>>80979899
It was early Frank, before he became 99% dead inside.
I've found that Frank doesn't Frank certain types of criminals.
>Prostitutes
>Soft Drug Dealers
>Pimps (so long as they play by the rules)
>Informants
>>80976664
Did he ACTUALLY sell his soul to Lady Death or was he just insane? If I remember Born, it could be interpreted either way.
>>80981183
For reference, that woman is a top-level human trafficker for sex rings and was the one who recommended that the gangs rape the women for days on end in order to break them and make them pliable.
>>80981899
>Pimps
Oh fuck no, he slaughters pimps whenever he finds them. They usually work for the mob, and all mob goons are targets.
>>80974816
It's not justice or vengeance, it's punishment, that's what he believes.
Frank never tries to claim any legitimacy for his mass murder of criminals, he's not even avenging his family anymore, he's just given himself over to selfishly punishing criminals because it's literally he has now, he's completely self aware of what he is too which is fucking terrifying.
Punisher is one of the best genuinely tragic figures in the Marvel universe.
>>80974816
He is a murderer. Plain and simple.
Just because he kills garbage tier scum doesnt mean he isnt a murderer. He kills anyone associated with organized crime. And yes he has killed innocents.
Most people that like him are just edge lords who like to see people get killed cause other cqpe shit doesnt do that often. The people that view frank as a force of nature with other capes reacting to his aftermath and activities are alright though.
>>80982027
I read a Punisher MAX story where he was okay with a pimp until he found out one of his girls was underaged. Then he just told the bottom bitch to make sure the next guy watched himself.
HE STINKS AND I DON'T LIKE HIM
>>80976664
Born was literally garbage and missed the fucking point of Punisher completely, that he came home ready to live a genuinely happy life with his family and had that taken from him which destroyed his entire life and turned him into the Punisher, a mass murderer
>make him insane BEFORE his family dies
>make him immortal because he "sold his soul"
>cringeworthy occult faggotry
are you fucking kidding me
>>80982180
I always preferred the notion that Frank was always a serial killer in the making waiting for an excuse to snap and that, while he was perfectly willing to ignore those parts of himself and live a happy life with his family, them being taken away from him is what finally pushed him into the abyss.
Also the "occult faggotry" can easily just be interpreted as his insanity or his mind's way of pushing him closer to doing what he really wanted to do.
The whole "he was perfectly normal and then losing his family completely flipped him the other way around" thing is antiquated and unrealistic anyway.
Frank being normal before the day in the park is wishful thinking. Believing he wasn't normal is cynicism. Few works before Aaron have even explored his post- Vietnam life.
>>80980035
I read that the Penance Stare makes Ghost Rider's enemies see and feel every bit of pain they've inflicted on others. Since the Punisher doesn't regret what he's done and has already had so much pain inflicted on himself, maybe that's why the Penance Stare didn't work.
Also, Frank being the Avatar of Death probably helps too.
has frank ever accidentally an undercover?
>>80985718
That was the premise of the 2008 film Punisher: War Zone.
>>80976664
You misinterpreted it.
>Geek: Speaking of The Punisher MAX line, I am absolutely fascinated by your run. After reading Punisher: Born I began to wonder if Frank is actually driven by some sort of supernatural dark force. Could he be considered someone that’s been gifted with a higher (or lower) power?
>Ennis: To me, that whole sequence was about – it’s written in that classic way where maybe it’s there, maybe it’s all in his head. It’s more a man coming to terms with his own fate, his own destiny, and the path he’ll walk through the world. A man being honest with himself about who he is. At home he has the wife, the kid, the other kid on the way, meanwhile he’s up to his neck in horror. He likes it, and he’s coming to terms with that and admitting it.
>Ultimately, it’s his ability to embrace this that allows him to survive and come home to his wife and kids. He’s made a kind of deal with the attraction to the violence in himself that will, in a way, draw his family into that world too. Again, you can read it anyway you want (laughs) but that’s my own personal take!
>>80982027
Depends on the pimps.
A violent pimp or a pimp who hooks girls on drugs ends in the morgue.
Go read the best Punisher story ever.
>>80979339
>Would he kill someone for pirating?
Pretty sure Microchip pirated on the regular but Punisher never cared
>>80981183
>Punisher serie
>Season 1 adapting the Slavers arc
Get fucking ready.
>>80988261
Will never happen. A good Punisher film is a violent one and that means no kids allowed.
Will not make money. Look at Punisher: Warzone of Judge Dredd
>>80988339
I said serie, not film.
>>80979339
>Would he kill someone for pirating?
Fuck, you gave me a really good idea Anon.
>Frank is an anti pirate with his own warship and shit
>Sailing round the Caribbean wrecking pirates
>The Skull on his flag is the Punisher skull
>Pirates freaking the fuck out just when they see it
>His family were killed by Pirates during a day at the beach
>Possible Monkey sidekick
>>80987530
What, MAX?
>>80988471
That's fucking retarded. So fucking retarded that swings back around to god damned awesome. Take my money and make this a reality. I'd read the shit out of it.
>>80979339
You wouldn't steal a car
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmZm8vNHBSU
>>80988511
The Slavers (Punisher Max)
>>80988546
>Punisher fighting Blackbeard and shit
>Punisher getting in the way of the Royal Navy
>His ship could be the Battle Van in ship form
>He could teach the Monkey to fight with knives
>Microchip could be this guy who rips off Pirates in deals for weapons for Frank
>>80988666
>Punisher franking Blackbeard and shit
FTFY
>>80980972
>white supremacist
Most of his victims are irish and italian
>>80988914
>Irish
>Italian
>White
>>80988914
He also kills a shitload of shit-stirring white supremacists whenever they rear their head too.
>>80988944
That didn't take long.
>>80979018
>I see it as a Frank that's had everything pulled out from underneath him and he's just on full autopilot now. Always one foot in front of the other, on to the next battle because if he stops then he's left to process everything he's lost.
That's my Frank. The autopilot comment especially. This is a guy that is deeply disturbed and has stripped his entire life down to a single purpose. On some level he recognizes that he's more than a little fucked up. But he's not going to stop either.
>>80988339
what this guy said
>>80988378
he's already in Daredevil and that's been pretty extremely violent. The groundwork is there to give him a series of his own, if they decide to.
>>80979733
I mean, Frank started out getting mixed up in dumb superhero bullshit right? I mostly agree with you, but I still think the Rucka/Edmonson runs were the best possible way you could do it.
The Avengers and friends are content to sit on their hands unless the danger comes packed in spandex or is some sort of existential threat. That leaves a whole lot of less brightly colored, but still serious threats to get Franked. And until Spiderman gets a metric ton of sand in his vagina over Frank, capes are pretty content to ignore Frank for the same reason most people ignore tragedy, it doesn't affect their lives.
>>80980762
I think we all agree that Frank is best left without... "characterization", but Rucka did it justice in his own way in my opinion. Sure, Frank has a few more responses to situations than "scowl" or "kill", but the addition of another punisher like character reinforces just how Frank Frank is.
The character closest to matching Frank even says it, nobody can be like him. It's obviously not about justice, but it's barely even about his family anymore. It's the incessant drive to move forward and punish those who deserve it no matter what.
>>80982064
Im a pacifist and I love Frank.
partly because let sbe honest - Its fun to watch the crazy bastard work. Guy is good at what he does. You can't help but respect thazt in a twisted sort of way.
And partly because so often the stories emphasize the futility of his crusade.
Frank's action are about as likely to escalate violence as they are to prevent it.
He knows one day he'll be too slow or some scumbag will get lucky and nothing will have changed.
He's a broken man resigned to who he is and what he does because he knows nothing else.
>>80974816
then you don't love the punisher, you love the idea of what you think the punisher is like
>>80975268
He gladly killy muggers, dealers and pimps if opportunity rises tho
>>80975502
He does it because he LOVES doing it. His family was just the ignition
>>80990946
Its like when you're in 8th grade and you're convinced you're in love with some girl you've never even talked to.
70s Punisher was the far right winged asshole who would kill anybody for any small crime.
Today's punisher is a bleeding heart with balls at this point. Frank only kills really BAD people, people who deserve to die, and the people protecting and doing the dirty work for the those types.
Frank ain't gonna break into Seth Rogen's house and shoot him and his dealer. But if a dealer had connections to dangerous cruel mafia types who were into human trafficking and all that shit, then it's Frankin time.
>>80988666
The PunishARRRI'm sorry
>>80980025
boo
>>80988471
Why wasn't this Secret Wars tie-in?
